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General Category => Boobtube => Topic started by: Richard Chuggar on November 20, 2009, 07:41:36 AM

Title: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on November 20, 2009, 07:41:36 AM
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/11/19/this-just-in-and-the-lost-premiere-date-is%e2%80%a6/#more-4212

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on November 20, 2009, 11:19:47 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on November 20, 2009, 07:41:36 AM
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/11/19/this-just-in-and-the-lost-premiere-date-is%e2%80%a6/#more-4212



Quote
The following week, Lost will settle into its regular Tuesday-9 pm perch.

Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on December 08, 2009, 08:36:08 AM
Season 1-5: $73 for DVD. $109 for Blu-Ray (http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_A26UAFWNVQVQS9?ie=UTF8&docId=1000454281&pf_rd_p=441937901&pf_rd_s=right-1&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=20&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0WX85AGM0Q81HHMMZJ6H)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on January 06, 2010, 07:50:52 AM
(http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//74/e6/74e6b7caa9070bed50c912917d1e8684.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on January 06, 2010, 03:12:34 PM
I'm in the process of re-watching the first 5 seasons.  I never noticed that in the episode where Cholly is trying to steal the Winston Churchill egg from that rich chick, she mentions that her dad was up in Slough trying to buy a paper company.  I wonder if he took the Free Love Freeway up there.

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/theoffice/images/400/groupshot_s2.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 03:16:44 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on January 06, 2010, 07:50:52 AM
(http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//74/e6/74e6b7caa9070bed50c912917d1e8684.jpg)

Nice.  Has a TV show ever done this before?  Naw...

(http://darklydreamingdavid.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/battlestar-galactica_lastsupper.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on January 06, 2010, 06:28:25 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 06, 2010, 03:12:34 PM
I'm in the process of re-watching the first 5 seasons.  I never noticed that in the episode where Cholly is trying to steal the Winston Churchill egg from that rich chick, she mentions that her dad was up in Slough trying to buy a paper company.  I wonder if he took the Free Love Freeway up there.

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/theoffice/images/400/groupshot_s2.jpg)

You never noticed that?  You're stupid.

burn FACE
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on January 06, 2010, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 03:16:44 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on January 06, 2010, 07:50:52 AM
(http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//74/e6/74e6b7caa9070bed50c912917d1e8684.jpg)

Nice.  Has a TV show ever done this before?  Naw...

(http://darklydreamingdavid.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/battlestar-galactica_lastsupper.jpg)

I didn't know Max Weinberg was in that show.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on January 06, 2010, 07:31:34 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on January 06, 2010, 06:59:26 PM
I didn't know Max Weinberg was in that show.

Max on Max 2: Maxes In Space
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on January 19, 2010, 08:18:51 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/final_season_of_lost_promises_to
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on January 29, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43811 (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43811)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 02, 2010, 05:17:28 AM
Get your boners ready b/c this shit is going to be awesome!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 02, 2010, 05:25:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 02, 2010, 05:17:28 AM
Get your boners ready b/c this shit is going to be awesome!

Wanna DDR?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 02, 2010, 07:55:57 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 02, 2010, 05:25:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 02, 2010, 05:17:28 AM
Get your boners ready b/c this shit is going to be awesome!

Wanna DDR?

Dick to Dick Rub?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on February 02, 2010, 11:22:36 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 02, 2010, 07:55:57 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 02, 2010, 05:25:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 02, 2010, 05:17:28 AM
Get your boners ready b/c this shit is going to be awesome!

Wanna DDR?

Dick to Dick Rub?

Y'all could add those little pop-up explanatory titles to the home video, too.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 02, 2010, 08:00:01 PM
Let the games begin
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 03, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
So, Sayid is to Jacob as Locke is to Esau?

Really liking this flash-sideways/alternate reality thing. You'd think the stories will have to converge at some point, I just have no idea how they'll pull it off.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 03, 2010, 09:01:04 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
So, Sayid is to Jacob as Locke is to Esau?

Really liking this flash-sideways/alternate reality thing. You'd think the stories will have to converge at some point, I just have no idea how they'll pull it off.

Parallel universe? I was utterly confounded for two hours last night but I enjoyed it while I wasn't watching 45 minutes of commercials.

It's almost like they could start an entirely new show based off of the events of the cast landing safely at LAX instead of crashing. I would watch that show.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Quality Start Machine on February 03, 2010, 09:14:03 AM

How does the one guy still weigh 600 pounds after being on that island so long?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
So, Sayid is to Jacob as Locke is to Esau?

Really liking this flash-sideways/alternate reality thing. You'd think the stories will have to converge at some point, I just have no idea how they'll pull it off.

A chick at the Trib suggested that the survivors will get a choice in which life they want to live (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/02/lost-season-6-la-x-sayid-jacob-locke-ben-jack-kate.html)

QuoteIn the end, will the people on the island find out there's a different timeline? Will they have to choose which one they want to stay in? "You have a choice," Jacob told Ben last season. I wonder if that dilemma will be presented to the survivors -- stay on the island and/or stay in the island timeline, or go off and never have  those island experiences. I'm betting that will become one of the main features of the final season -- pondering which choice might be better, and why, for various characters.

...

# So are we going to find out, in the end, that crashing on the island was the best thing that could have happened to some of these folks? It cured Rose's cancer, it fixed Locke's legs, it allowed Kate to stay out of jail, it got Charlie off drugs, it allowed Jin to avoid getting in trouble with the US authorities, it allowed Sun to be someone other than the wife of a somewhat unpleasant man.

# The Kate we see running off hasn't learned much about facing up to consequences. The Charlie on the plane hadn't yet learned that he can be heroic in a crisis. The Locke on the plane never got to catch a wild boar or lead the adventurous life he'd craved. The Jack on the plane never got to resolve or at least work on a few of his daddy issues. The Sun and Jin on the plane probably would have stayed in a strained marriage.

# I'm sure there are an equal number of examples in which characters were better off staying in the Safe Landing storyline -- certainly Hurley seems happier there and in that timeline, Boone doesn't appear to be headed for death. But, as I asked earlier, will there have to be a choice between the island and Safe Landing timelines? I know if I were Sawyer, I'd choose the island story. No matter how much he suffered there, he also began to know true love and real friendship. All of them suffered, but was it suffering that taught them something?

# I do wonder how these two timelines are going to converge. Because as the book Jacob was reading in the Season 5 finale reminds us, "Everything That Rises Must Converge."

# One final thought from Jack: "Nothing is irreversible." I guess we'll find out.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 09:33:17 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
So, Sayid is to Jacob as Locke is to Esau?

Really liking this flash-sideways/alternate reality thing. You'd think the stories will have to converge at some point, I just have no idea how they'll pull it off.

A chick at the Trib suggested that the survivors will get a choice in which life they want to live (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/02/lost-season-6-la-x-sayid-jacob-locke-ben-jack-kate.html)

QuoteIn the end, will the people on the island find out there's a different timeline? Will they have to choose which one they want to stay in? "You have a choice," Jacob told Ben last season. I wonder if that dilemma will be presented to the survivors -- stay on the island and/or stay in the island timeline, or go off and never have  those island experiences. I'm betting that will become one of the main features of the final season -- pondering which choice might be better, and why, for various characters.

...

# So are we going to find out, in the end, that crashing on the island was the best thing that could have happened to some of these folks? It cured Rose's cancer, it fixed Locke's legs, it allowed Kate to stay out of jail, it got Charlie off drugs, it allowed Jin to avoid getting in trouble with the US authorities, it allowed Sun to be someone other than the wife of a somewhat unpleasant man.

# The Kate we see running off hasn't learned much about facing up to consequences. The Charlie on the plane hadn't yet learned that he can be heroic in a crisis. The Locke on the plane never got to catch a wild boar or lead the adventurous life he'd craved. The Jack on the plane never got to resolve or at least work on a few of his daddy issues. The Sun and Jin on the plane probably would have stayed in a strained marriage.

# I'm sure there are an equal number of examples in which characters were better off staying in the Safe Landing storyline -- certainly Hurley seems happier there and in that timeline, Boone doesn't appear to be headed for death. But, as I asked earlier, will there have to be a choice between the island and Safe Landing timelines? I know if I were Sawyer, I'd choose the island story. No matter how much he suffered there, he also began to know true love and real friendship. All of them suffered, but was it suffering that taught them something?

# I do wonder how these two timelines are going to converge. Because as the book Jacob was reading in the Season 5 finale reminds us, "Everything That Rises Must Converge."

# One final thought from Jack: "Nothing is irreversible." I guess we'll find out.

It seems like there might be more to it than that, though (it's Lost, of course there is).  It looked like Jack recognized some of the people on the plane, even Desmond (where'd he disappear to?), who it doesn't seem like he actually ever met while they were out running a few years before.  The fact that Charlie says he was "supposed to die" makes me think everything that's supposed to happen will happen, and they'll still somehow find a way back to the island in the alternate timeline, despite it being in the bottom of the ocean.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
Quote from: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 09:33:17 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
So, Sayid is to Jacob as Locke is to Esau?

Really liking this flash-sideways/alternate reality thing. You'd think the stories will have to converge at some point, I just have no idea how they'll pull it off.

A chick at the Trib suggested that the survivors will get a choice in which life they want to live (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/02/lost-season-6-la-x-sayid-jacob-locke-ben-jack-kate.html)

QuoteIn the end, will the people on the island find out there's a different timeline? Will they have to choose which one they want to stay in? "You have a choice," Jacob told Ben last season. I wonder if that dilemma will be presented to the survivors -- stay on the island and/or stay in the island timeline, or go off and never have  those island experiences. I'm betting that will become one of the main features of the final season -- pondering which choice might be better, and why, for various characters.

...

# So are we going to find out, in the end, that crashing on the island was the best thing that could have happened to some of these folks? It cured Rose's cancer, it fixed Locke's legs, it allowed Kate to stay out of jail, it got Charlie off drugs, it allowed Jin to avoid getting in trouble with the US authorities, it allowed Sun to be someone other than the wife of a somewhat unpleasant man.

# The Kate we see running off hasn't learned much about facing up to consequences. The Charlie on the plane hadn't yet learned that he can be heroic in a crisis. The Locke on the plane never got to catch a wild boar or lead the adventurous life he'd craved. The Jack on the plane never got to resolve or at least work on a few of his daddy issues. The Sun and Jin on the plane probably would have stayed in a strained marriage.

# I'm sure there are an equal number of examples in which characters were better off staying in the Safe Landing storyline -- certainly Hurley seems happier there and in that timeline, Boone doesn't appear to be headed for death. But, as I asked earlier, will there have to be a choice between the island and Safe Landing timelines? I know if I were Sawyer, I'd choose the island story. No matter how much he suffered there, he also began to know true love and real friendship. All of them suffered, but was it suffering that taught them something?

# I do wonder how these two timelines are going to converge. Because as the book Jacob was reading in the Season 5 finale reminds us, "Everything That Rises Must Converge."

# One final thought from Jack: "Nothing is irreversible." I guess we'll find out.

It seems like there might be more to it than that, though (it's Lost, of course there is).  It looked like Jack recognized some of the people on the plane, even Desmond (where'd he disappear to?), who it doesn't seem like he actually ever met while they were out running a few years before.  The fact that Charlie says he was "supposed to die" makes me think everything that's supposed to happen will happen, and they'll still somehow find a way back to the island in the alternate timeline, despite it being in the bottom of the ocean.


I didn't read all of that article, but the parts I read were retarded.  She didn't even know the people at the temple were Others.
The biggest questions, I thought, were:
What did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?  This is the biggest mystery to me.
Who exactly is Sayid now?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
Why won't that slope just fucking speak the language?  I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating. 
Was Richard a slave on the Black Rock?
Why?

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:51:40 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
Quote from: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 09:33:17 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
So, Sayid is to Jacob as Locke is to Esau?

Really liking this flash-sideways/alternate reality thing. You'd think the stories will have to converge at some point, I just have no idea how they'll pull it off.

A chick at the Trib suggested that the survivors will get a choice in which life they want to live (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/02/lost-season-6-la-x-sayid-jacob-locke-ben-jack-kate.html)

QuoteIn the end, will the people on the island find out there's a different timeline? Will they have to choose which one they want to stay in? "You have a choice," Jacob told Ben last season. I wonder if that dilemma will be presented to the survivors -- stay on the island and/or stay in the island timeline, or go off and never have  those island experiences. I'm betting that will become one of the main features of the final season -- pondering which choice might be better, and why, for various characters.

...

# So are we going to find out, in the end, that crashing on the island was the best thing that could have happened to some of these folks? It cured Rose's cancer, it fixed Locke's legs, it allowed Kate to stay out of jail, it got Charlie off drugs, it allowed Jin to avoid getting in trouble with the US authorities, it allowed Sun to be someone other than the wife of a somewhat unpleasant man.

# The Kate we see running off hasn't learned much about facing up to consequences. The Charlie on the plane hadn't yet learned that he can be heroic in a crisis. The Locke on the plane never got to catch a wild boar or lead the adventurous life he'd craved. The Jack on the plane never got to resolve or at least work on a few of his daddy issues. The Sun and Jin on the plane probably would have stayed in a strained marriage.

# I'm sure there are an equal number of examples in which characters were better off staying in the Safe Landing storyline -- certainly Hurley seems happier there and in that timeline, Boone doesn't appear to be headed for death. But, as I asked earlier, will there have to be a choice between the island and Safe Landing timelines? I know if I were Sawyer, I'd choose the island story. No matter how much he suffered there, he also began to know true love and real friendship. All of them suffered, but was it suffering that taught them something?

# I do wonder how these two timelines are going to converge. Because as the book Jacob was reading in the Season 5 finale reminds us, "Everything That Rises Must Converge."

# One final thought from Jack: "Nothing is irreversible." I guess we'll find out.

It seems like there might be more to it than that, though (it's Lost, of course there is).  It looked like Jack recognized some of the people on the plane, even Desmond (where'd he disappear to?), who it doesn't seem like he actually ever met while they were out running a few years before.  The fact that Charlie says he was "supposed to die" makes me think everything that's supposed to happen will happen, and they'll still somehow find a way back to the island in the alternate timeline, despite it being in the bottom of the ocean.


I didn't read all of that article, but the parts I read were retarded.  She didn't even know the people at the temple were Others.
The biggest questions, I thought, were:
What did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?  This is the biggest mystery to me.
Who exactly is Sayid now?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
Why won't that slope just fucking speak the language?  I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating. 
Was Richard a slave on the Black Rock?
Why?



You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:59:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

I know he won the lottery, but why didn't that bad stuff happen to him?
I was talking about the cut on his neck, but I also slightly referencing an old Seinfeld episode.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on February 03, 2010, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Hurley won the lottery based on the numbers, supposedly spawning the bad stuff after the lottery win. Are the numbers in the sideways timeline less powerful due to the sunken island?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:59:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

I know he won the lottery, but why didn't that bad stuff happen to him?
I was talking about the cut on his neck, but I also slightly referencing an old Seinfeld episode.  Sorry.

I would assume because the world became inherently different in 1977 when the bomb went off. Somehow, Hugo's string of bad luck was done. Jack's dad's casket was on the plane (He found it on the island in season 1 or 2... empty, though).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 10:14:31 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:59:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

I know he won the lottery, but why didn't that bad stuff happen to him?
I was talking about the cut on his neck, but I also slightly referencing an old Seinfeld episode.  Sorry.

I would assume because the world became inherently different in 1977 when the bomb went off. Somehow, Hugo's string of bad luck was done. Jack's dad's casket was on the plane (He found it on the island in season 1 or 2... empty, though).

That conversation with the producers shows the island may not have actually sunk at the time the bomb went off.  Also, because all of these things have changed, maybe Jack's dad didn't even die the same way.  There has been no mention that Jack ever saved his ex-wife, and the fact that he didn't recognize Desmond shows that event at the stadium never happened.  In fact, if they blew up the island in 1977, then Widmore and Eloise died when it sunk, and Desmond never would have met Penny.  Let's just see how this all plays out.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
So, Sayid is to Jacob as Locke is to Esau?

Really liking this flash-sideways/alternate reality thing. You'd think the stories will have to converge at some point, I just have no idea how they'll pull it off.

I wouldn't necessarily wager on it happening, but I'd like to see different versions of characters come face to face with one another at some point.

Who knows... Maybe Earth-One Kate and Earth-Two Kate could get together and lez out.

That would be like twins doing it, but better.

(Que Wheezer? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Folded_Himself))
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 10:16:48 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on February 03, 2010, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Hurley won the lottery based on the numbers, supposedly spawning the bad stuff after the lottery win. Are the numbers in the sideways timeline less powerful due to the sunken island?

Although we don't know if he used those specific numbers to win the lottery either. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:51:40 AM
You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 10:24:09 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:51:40 AM
You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WAi2txkagVM/R-pHHgbOt9I/AAAAAAAABkc/WItRFZjpTus/s320/seinfeld_red_dot.jpg%5D)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:26:04 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 10:24:09 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:51:40 AM
You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WAi2txkagVM/R-pHHgbOt9I/AAAAAAAABkc/WItRFZjpTus/s320/seinfeld_red_dot.jpg%5D)

Oh, Georgie Porgie!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:33:13 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 10:16:48 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on February 03, 2010, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Hurley won the lottery based on the numbers, supposedly spawning the bad stuff after the lottery win. Are the numbers in the sideways timeline less powerful due to the sunken island?

Although we don't know if he used those specific numbers to win the lottery either.  

In the changed timeline, if the Dharma Initiative is blown to kingdom come by mini-Jughead, The Numbers are probably never even transmitted from the island for Leonard to hear in the first place, in which case Hurley would have never been introduced to them.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 03, 2010, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:51:40 AM
You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

Terrible SeinFAIL on my part. I will now read Weebs' most recent post as punishment.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?

Quote from: Yeti on February 03, 2010, 09:51:40 AM
You mean the red boo-boo he had on his neck?

Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.

I think he's trying to say he saw a very cheap man, holding a sweater, trying to get away with something.

That was his overview.

Terrible SeinFAIL on my part. I will now read Weebs' most recent post as punishment.

It's going to blow your mindgrapes.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on February 03, 2010, 10:57:04 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:33:13 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 10:16:48 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on February 03, 2010, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Hurley won the lottery based on the numbers, supposedly spawning the bad stuff after the lottery win. Are the numbers in the sideways timeline less powerful due to the sunken island?

Although we don't know if he used those specific numbers to win the lottery either.  

In the changed timeline, if the Dharma Initiative is blown to kingdom come by mini-Jughead, The Numbers are probably never even transmitted from the island for Leonard to hear in the first place, in which case Hurley would have never been introduced to them.

So Hurley's winning lottery numbers would not be the island numbers leading to the lack of bad luck for Hurley.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 10:57:55 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on February 03, 2010, 10:57:04 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 10:33:13 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 10:16:48 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on February 03, 2010, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AMWhat did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?
What happened to make Hurley the luckiest man alive now?
What was that red dot on Jack's sweater?
I mean, I don't care how it tastes to him, just say it so we don't need that other nerd translating.

She meant they did create a new timeline by blowing shit up. The problem is they didn't destroy the existing one.
He still won the lottery. He just didn't have all the other bad stuff happen.
Are you talking about the cut on his neck? Otherwise I'm not following.
Kenny Powers is going to put his foot up your ass for calling his brother a nerd.

Also: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Hurley won the lottery based on the numbers, supposedly spawning the bad stuff after the lottery win. Are the numbers in the sideways timeline less powerful due to the sunken island?

Although we don't know if he used those specific numbers to win the lottery either.  

In the changed timeline, if the Dharma Initiative is blown to kingdom come by mini-Jughead, The Numbers are probably never even transmitted from the island for Leonard to hear in the first place, in which case Hurley would have never been introduced to them.

So Hurley's winning lottery numbers would not be the island numbers leading to the lack of bad luck for Hurley.

Thanks for the clarification, Judge Reinhold.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 12:05:46 PM
DPD

I don't think Sayid is Jacob.  If Essau was able to become Locke without actually possessing his body, shouldn't Jacob be able to do the same?  I'm guessing Sayid saw the alternate reality, just like Juliet did before she died, and he'll be the one who explains what the hell is going on with all of that.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 01:15:39 PM
BTW... Any of you Pauls catch of a glimpse of the book they found on the dead guy in the temple?

I only caught a quick glimpse of the author name myself (on my lo-def, Tivo-less TV), and maybe this is just wishful Desipio thinking, but to my eyes it looked for all the world like... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ren_Kierkegaard)

(And this would seem like an appropriate enough title (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Either/Or) to easter egg us with, though lots of his stuff would seem appropriate.)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 01:26:36 PM
Apparently it was "Fear and Trembling" instead...

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2mf145w.jpg)

And a French edition at that.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 03:41:47 PM
So, a question from Pen in the SBox about Not-Locke's line about wanting to go home got me thinking about fallen angels (cast down from Heaven, maybe desiring to return).

I read a bit on Lucifer, then came upon Samael...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael

QuoteSamael (Hebrew: סמאל‎) (also Sammael) is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is accuser, seducer and destroyer, and has been regarded as both good and evil. It is said that he was the guardian angel of Esau and a patron of the sinful empire of Rome.

Also called Sammael and Samil, he is considered in legend both a member of the heavenly host (with often grim and destructive duties) and a fallen angel, equatable with Satan and the chief of the evil spirits. One of Samael's greatest roles in Jewish lore is that of the Angel of Death. In this capacity he is a fallen angel but nevertheless remains one of the Lord's servants. As a good angel, Samael supposedly resides in the seventh heaven, although he is declared to be the chief angel of the fifth heaven.

...

In Jewish lore, Samael is said to be the Angel of Death, the chief ruler of the Fifth Heaven and one of the seven regents of the world served by two million angels; he resides in the Seventh Heaven. Yalkut I, 110 of the Talmud speaks of Samael as Esau's guardian angel. In Sotah 10b, Samael is Esau's guardian angel, and in the Sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, he is charged with being the one who tempted Eve, then seduced and impregnated her with Cain. Though some sources identify Gadreel as the angel that seduced Eve, other Hebrew scholars say that it was Samael who tempted Eve in the guise of the Serpent. Samael is also sometimes identified as being the angelic antagonist who wrestled with Jacob, and also the angel who held back the arm of Abraham as he was about to sacrifice his son.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=106&letter=S

QuotePrince of the demons, and an important figure both in Talmudic and in post-Talmudic literature, where he appears as accuser, seducer, and destroyer. His name is etymologized as (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume10/V10p665001.jpg) = "the venom of God," since he is identical with the angel of death (Targ. Yer. to Gen. iii. 6; see also Death, Angel of), who slays men with a drop of poison ('Ab. Zarah 20b; Kohut, "Angelologie und Dämonologie," pp. 69, 71). It is possible, however, that the name is derived from that of the Syrian god Shemal (Bousset, "Religion," p. 242).

...

All these descriptions of Samael show that he was regarded simply as the principle of evil that brought upon Israel and Judah every misfortune that befell them. Even at the creation of the world he was Lucifer, who ever sought evil and who began his malignant activity with Adam. His opponent is Michael, who represents the beneficent principle, and who frequently comes into conflict with him (comp. Jew. Encyc. viii. 536 et seq.; Lucken, "Michael," pp. 22 et seq.).

More: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0017_0_17378.html

As the angel who wrestles Jacob, he represents Israel's celestial adversary... (http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/379349/jewish/Messengers-of-the-Righteous.htm)

QuoteRemember that the struggle between Jacob and his adversary occurred on two levels: the physical and the spiritual, Esau in this world and Samael in the celestial regions.

As the angel that tries to stay Abraham's hand, he offers temptation against the command of God... (http://books.google.com/books?id=oin9oOVLTz0C&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260)

QuoteAmong the meaningful references to Samael in the classical layer of midrashic literature, his role in the story of the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham should be emphasized. According to the Bereshit Rabba text it was Samael who tried to influence Abraham not to sacrifice Isaac, and thus to transgress God's command.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 03:43:37 PM
The connection to the sacrifice of Isaac is interesting when we look at that Kierkegaard book...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Trembling

QuoteFear and Trembling presents a highly original and provocative interpretation of the Binding of Isaac story as told in Genesis Chapter 22, and uses the story as an occasion to discuss fundamental issues in moral philosophy and the philosophy of religion, such as the nature of God and faith, faith's relationship with ethics and morality, and the difficulty of being authentically religious.

...

The work begins with a meditation on the faith of Abraham when he was commanded by God to sacrifice his son Isaac.[3] Silentio gives four alternative re-tellings in which Abraham fails the test of his faith and contrasts them with his own interpretation of the story of Abraham and the faith therein demonstrated. Silentio professes to admire Abraham's faith, but he is utterly incapable of comprehending it.

...

For Kierkegaard, infinite resignation is easy, but faith is founded in the belief in the absurd. The absurd is that which is contradictory to reason itself. For Abraham, this faith in the absurd manifests itself in Abraham's belief that he would kill his only son but he would nevertheless receive him again in his lifetime. Silentio's opinion is that what separates Abraham from being a killer is his faith. (In the end of the Genesis 22 story, an angel stops Abraham at the last moment. A ram appears which Abraham takes as a sign from God, and he sacrifices the ram instead of Isaac.)

http://www.ccel.org/k/kierkegaard/selections/trembling.htm

QuoteIf Abraham had doubted, when standing on Mount Moriah; if he had looked about him in perplexity; if he had accidentally discovered the ram before drawing his knife; if God had permitted him to sacrifice it instead of Isaac—then would he have returned home, and all would have been as before, he would have had Sarah and would have kept Isaac; and yet how different all would have been!

QuoteInfinite resignation is the last stage which goes before faith, so that every one who has not made the movement of infinite resignation cannot have faith...

So sayeth the original Paul.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: MAD on February 03, 2010, 03:44:05 PM
I expected you nerdlingers to have stretched this thread to at least 10 pages by now.

I'm disappointed in all of you.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on February 03, 2010, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 03:41:47 PM
So, a question from Pen in the SBox about Not-Locke's line about wanting to go home got me thinking about fallen angels (cast down from Heaven, maybe desiring to return).

I read a bit on Lucifer, then came upon Samael...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael

QuoteSamael (Hebrew: סמאל‎) (also Sammael) is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is accuser, seducer and destroyer, and has been regarded as both good and evil. It is said that he was the guardian angel of Esau and a patron of the sinful empire of Rome.

Also called Sammael and Samil, he is considered in legend both a member of the heavenly host (with often grim and destructive duties) and a fallen angel, equatable with Satan and the chief of the evil spirits. One of Samael's greatest roles in Jewish lore is that of the Angel of Death. In this capacity he is a fallen angel but nevertheless remains one of the Lord's servants. As a good angel, Samael supposedly resides in the seventh heaven, although he is declared to be the chief angel of the fifth heaven.

...

In Jewish lore, Samael is said to be the Angel of Death, the chief ruler of the Fifth Heaven and one of the seven regents of the world served by two million angels; he resides in the Seventh Heaven. Yalkut I, 110 of the Talmud speaks of Samael as Esau's guardian angel. In Sotah 10b, Samael is Esau's guardian angel, and in the Sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, he is charged with being the one who tempted Eve, then seduced and impregnated her with Cain. Though some sources identify Gadreel as the angel that seduced Eve, other Hebrew scholars say that it was Samael who tempted Eve in the guise of the Serpent. Samael is also sometimes identified as being the angelic antagonist who wrestled with Jacob, and also the angel who held back the arm of Abraham as he was about to sacrifice his son.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=106&letter=S

QuotePrince of the demons, and an important figure both in Talmudic and in post-Talmudic literature, where he appears as accuser, seducer, and destroyer. His name is etymologized as (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume10/V10p665001.jpg) = "the venom of God," since he is identical with the angel of death (Targ. Yer. to Gen. iii. 6; see also Death, Angel of), who slays men with a drop of poison ('Ab. Zarah 20b; Kohut, "Angelologie und Dämonologie," pp. 69, 71). It is possible, however, that the name is derived from that of the Syrian god Shemal (Bousset, "Religion," p. 242).

...

All these descriptions of Samael show that he was regarded simply as the principle of evil that brought upon Israel and Judah every misfortune that befell them. Even at the creation of the world he was Lucifer, who ever sought evil and who began his malignant activity with Adam. His opponent is Michael, who represents the beneficent principle, and who frequently comes into conflict with him (comp. Jew. Encyc. viii. 536 et seq.; Lucken, "Michael," pp. 22 et seq.).

More: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0017_0_17378.html

As the angel who wrestles Jacob, he represents Israel's celestial adversary... (http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/379349/jewish/Messengers-of-the-Righteous.htm)

QuoteRemember that the struggle between Jacob and his adversary occurred on two levels: the physical and the spiritual, Esau in this world and Samael in the celestial regions.

As the angel that tries to stay Abraham's hand, he offers temptation against the command of God... (http://books.google.com/books?id=oin9oOVLTz0C&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260)

QuoteAmong the meaningful references to Samael in the classical layer of midrashic literature, his role in the story of the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham should be emphasized. According to the Bereshit Rabba text it was Samael who tried to influence Abraham not to sacrifice Isaac, and thus to transgress God's command.

1. All of that is badass, and this is my new favorite theory.
2. If they were going to infiltrate the body of any one character to pass for a Jew, Ben is a better choice than Locke.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 05:41:23 PM
The original casting call for the rolls of Jacob and his adversary...

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/02/episode-51617-season-finale-casting.html

Quote[JASON]
Any ethnicity, late 30s-60s. Former soldier. A leader of men. Smart but more than that – he is wise. Strong and straightforward. The words he says are always listened to and they carry gravitas. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurrings. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

[SAMUEL]
Any ethnicity, 40s-60s. A corporate raider looking to take over his next company. Powerful, devious and obtuse. He has a cunning intellect and a strong sense of danger. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurring. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

FWIW.

(Via Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%27s_nemesis).)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 03, 2010, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 05:41:23 PM
The original casting call for the rolls of Jacob and his adversary...

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/02/episode-51617-season-finale-casting.html

Quote[JASON]
Any ethnicity, late 30s-60s. Former soldier. A leader of men. Smart but more than that – he is wise. Strong and straightforward. The words he says are always listened to and they carry gravitas. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurrings. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

[SAMUEL]
Any ethnicity, 40s-60s. A corporate raider looking to take over his next company. Powerful, devious and obtuse. He has a cunning intellect and a strong sense of danger. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurring. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

FWIW.

(Via Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%27s_nemesis).)

Jason?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 03, 2010, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 05:41:23 PM
The original casting call for the rolls of Jacob and his adversary...

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/02/episode-51617-season-finale-casting.html

Quote[JASON]
Any ethnicity, late 30s-60s. Former soldier. A leader of men. Smart but more than that – he is wise. Strong and straightforward. The words he says are always listened to and they carry gravitas. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurrings. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

[SAMUEL]
Any ethnicity, 40s-60s. A corporate raider looking to take over his next company. Powerful, devious and obtuse. He has a cunning intellect and a strong sense of danger. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurring. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

FWIW.

(Via Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%27s_nemesis).)

Jason?

Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

They weren't going to put out a call explicitly announcing the casting of Jacob, were they? Even Weebs could have figured out what that would mean.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 07:07:09 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 03, 2010, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 05:41:23 PM
The original casting call for the rolls of Jacob and his adversary...

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/02/episode-51617-season-finale-casting.html

Quote[JASON]
Any ethnicity, late 30s-60s. Former soldier. A leader of men. Smart but more than that – he is wise. Strong and straightforward. The words he says are always listened to and they carry gravitas. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurrings. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

[SAMUEL]
Any ethnicity, 40s-60s. A corporate raider looking to take over his next company. Powerful, devious and obtuse. He has a cunning intellect and a strong sense of danger. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurring. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

FWIW.

(Via Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%27s_nemesis).)

Jason?

Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

They weren't going to put out a call explicitly announcing the casting of Jacob, were they? Even Weebs could have figured out what that would mean.

You give me too much credit.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
Quote from: R-V on February 03, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
So, Sayid is to Jacob as Locke is to Esau?

Really liking this flash-sideways/alternate reality thing. You'd think the stories will have to converge at some point, I just have no idea how they'll pull it off.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the people on the island now approximately four years or so ahead of the people who landed at LAX?  They're clearly at the same time that Locke/Esau's party is at, since Jacob appeared and said he'd died just an hour earlier.

I loved how they made us think that Plane Jack remembered the events on the island at first.  I got all, "If it never happened, he wouldn't remember it!" huffy before they made me feel like a heel by showing he DOESN'T remember.  Neato!  I also liked the bait-and-switch with Plane Locke.  I was sure he'd get up at the end, but he didn't.  HE DIDN'T.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 07:56:37 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the people on the island now approximately four years or so ahead of the people who landed at LAX?  They're clearly at the same time that Locke/Esau's party is at, since Jacob appeared and said he'd died just an hour earlier.

That doesn't mean they can't converge. Just that, if they do, it would have to be through flash-/jump-forwards and/or TIME TRAVEL. (The later of which would be pretty unrealistic, when you get right down to it.)

Quote from: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
I loved how they made us think that Plane Jack remembered the events on the island at first.  I got all, "If it never happened, he wouldn't remember it!" huffy before they made me feel like a heel by showing he DOESN'T remember.  Neato!  I also liked the bait-and-switch with Plane Locke.  I was sure he'd get up at the end, but he didn't.  HE DIDN'T.

I was kind of expecting that twist, too.

Turns out the twist was: THERE WAS NO TWIST.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 08:00:59 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 07:56:37 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the people on the island now approximately four years or so ahead of the people who landed at LAX?  They're clearly at the same time that Locke/Esau's party is at, since Jacob appeared and said he'd died just an hour earlier.

That doesn't mean they can't converge. Just that, if they do, it would have to be through flash-/jump-forwards and/or TIME TRAVEL. (The later of which would be pretty unrealistic, when you get right down to it.)

Quote from: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
I loved how they made us think that Plane Jack remembered the events on the island at first.  I got all, "If it never happened, he wouldn't remember it!" huffy before they made me feel like a heel by showing he DOESN'T remember.  Neato!  I also liked the bait-and-switch with Plane Locke.  I was sure he'd get up at the end, but he didn't.  HE DIDN'T.

I was kind of expecting that twist, too.

Turns out the twist was: THERE WAS NO TWIST.

True, it just means that the LAX Losties will have to fill 4 years until they meet up with the Island Losties.  Or, of course, TIME TRAVEL!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 03, 2010, 08:49:36 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 08:00:59 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 07:56:37 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the people on the island now approximately four years or so ahead of the people who landed at LAX?  They're clearly at the same time that Locke/Esau's party is at, since Jacob appeared and said he'd died just an hour earlier.

That doesn't mean they can't converge. Just that, if they do, it would have to be through flash-/jump-forwards and/or TIME TRAVEL. (The later of which would be pretty unrealistic, when you get right down to it.)

Quote from: Kermit IV on February 03, 2010, 07:49:23 PM
I loved how they made us think that Plane Jack remembered the events on the island at first.  I got all, "If it never happened, he wouldn't remember it!" huffy before they made me feel like a heel by showing he DOESN'T remember.  Neato!  I also liked the bait-and-switch with Plane Locke.  I was sure he'd get up at the end, but he didn't.  HE DIDN'T.

I was kind of expecting that twist, too.

Turns out the twist was: THERE WAS NO TWIST.

True, it just means that the LAX Losties will have to fill 4 years until they meet up with the Island Losties.  Or, of course, TIME TRAVEL!

Or maybe they didn't take that flight until 4 YEARS LATER!!!  I mean, Jack's hair is different.  How could he grow his hair out like that if it was supposed to be short when he went to Australia?  Never mind, TIME TRAVEL is awesome and they should just do more of that.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on February 04, 2010, 09:45:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 05:41:23 PM
The original casting call for the rolls of Jacob and his adversary...

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/02/episode-51617-season-finale-casting.html

Quote[JASON]
Any ethnicity, late 30s-60s. Former soldier. A leader of men. Smart but more than that – he is wise. Strong and straightforward. The words he says are always listened to and they carry gravitas. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurrings. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

[SAMUEL]
Any ethnicity, 40s-60s. A corporate raider looking to take over his next company. Powerful, devious and obtuse. He has a cunning intellect and a strong sense of danger. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurring. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

FWIW.

(Via Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%27s_nemesis).)

So then they decided to cut costs and just have Terry O'Quinn play two characters?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 09, 2010, 09:07:10 PM
Locke, Sayid, Claire and Christian: Army of the Undead.

Hopefully the DARKNESS claims Mac now, too.

"What's up, bitches?"
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on February 09, 2010, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 09, 2010, 09:07:10 PM
Locke, Sayid, Claire and Christian: Army of the Undead.

Is Claire dead?  She just wandered off and ended up with Christian in the Cabin, right?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 09, 2010, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on February 09, 2010, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 09, 2010, 09:07:10 PM
Locke, Sayid, Claire and Christian: Army of the Undead.

Is Claire dead?  She just wandered off and ended up with Christian in the Cabin, right?

She must have died and found the Others who tried to save her, thought they did, gave her "the test" which she failed, and then she possibly escaped where THE DARKNESS enveloped her heart and turned her into a killing machine.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on February 09, 2010, 09:33:49 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 09, 2010, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on February 09, 2010, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 09, 2010, 09:07:10 PM
Locke, Sayid, Claire and Christian: Army of the Undead.

Is Claire dead?  She just wandered off and ended up with Christian in the Cabin, right?

She must have died and found the Others who tried to save her, thought they did, gave her "the test" which she failed, and then she possibly escaped where THE DARKNESS enveloped her heart and turned her into a killing machine.

Would it kill her to wash off, though?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 09, 2010, 09:40:14 PM
Quote from: JD on February 09, 2010, 09:33:49 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 09, 2010, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on February 09, 2010, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 09, 2010, 09:07:10 PM
Locke, Sayid, Claire and Christian: Army of the Undead.

Is Claire dead?  She just wandered off and ended up with Christian in the Cabin, right?

She must have died and found the Others who tried to save her, thought they did, gave her "the test" which she failed, and then she possibly escaped where THE DARKNESS enveloped her heart and turned her into a killing machine.

Would it kill her to wash off, though?

She's gotta stay concealed so she can easily pick off snarky douches like Mac.

"What is this, a press conference?"
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on February 09, 2010, 09:54:18 PM
Quote from: R-V on February 09, 2010, 09:40:14 PM
Quote from: JD on February 09, 2010, 09:33:49 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 09, 2010, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on February 09, 2010, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 09, 2010, 09:07:10 PM
Locke, Sayid, Claire and Christian: Army of the Undead.

Is Claire dead?  She just wandered off and ended up with Christian in the Cabin, right?

She must have died and found the Others who tried to save her, thought they did, gave her "the test" which she failed, and then she possibly escaped where THE DARKNESS enveloped her heart and turned her into a killing machine.

Would it kill her to wash off, though?

She's gotta stay concealed so she can easily pick off snarky douches like Mac.

"What is this, a press conference?"

He was annoyingly distracting.  I know he was playing "ticked off", but that was a little weird.  I'm glad he's dead. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 09, 2010, 09:57:56 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on February 09, 2010, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 09, 2010, 09:07:10 PM
Locke, Sayid, Claire and Christian: Army of the Undead.

Is Claire dead?  She just wandered off and ended up with Christian in the Cabin, right?

Were you even paying attention tonight, dood?

The DARKNESS has claimed her, Chuck.

THE MOTHERFUCKING DARKNESS. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 10, 2010, 08:29:03 AM
What's up with Ethan being there?  Is he related to Horace?

I decided that Desmond wasn't really on the plane in the flash sideways.  I think he's floating around like in the Constant and helping the 815ers find their way.  Way to what, I don't know.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 10, 2010, 08:37:31 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 10, 2010, 08:29:03 AM
I decided that Desmond wasn't really on the plane in the flash sideways.  I think he's floating around like in the Constant and helping the 815ers find their way.  Way to what, I don't know.

If he was "floating around" like in the Constant, he would actually be on the plane.

Because he was always actually in the places he flashed to, just at a different time.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 10, 2010, 09:17:25 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 10, 2010, 08:29:03 AM
What's up with Ethan being there?  Is he related to Horace?

I decided that Desmond wasn't really on the plane in the flash sideways.  I think he's floating around like in the Constant and helping the 815ers find their way.  Way to what, I don't know.

In this reality, Ethan was evacuated from the island as a baby (on the sub with his mom). So he never gets into any of that Other-y stuff, and instead becomes a legitimate vagina doctor in LA.

Horace is his dad. Remember last season, when Juliet helped Michelle from 24 deliver her baby while Horace (the father) was stumbling around blowing shit up in a drunken stupor? Then she was laying there in the hammock and told Juliet she was going to name him Ethan? That's him.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 10, 2010, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 10, 2010, 09:17:25 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 10, 2010, 08:29:03 AM
What's up with Ethan being there?  Is he related to Horace?

I decided that Desmond wasn't really on the plane in the flash sideways.  I think he's floating around like in the Constant and helping the 815ers find their way.  Way to what, I don't know.

In this reality, Ethan was evacuated from the island as a baby (on the sub with his mom). So he never gets into any of that Other-y stuff, and instead becomes a legitimate vagina doctor in LA.

Horace is his dad. Remember last season, when Juliet helped Michelle from 24 deliver her baby while Horace (the father) was stumbling around blowing shit up in a drunken stupor? Then she was laying there in the hammock and told Juliet she was going to name him Ethan? That's him.

Good remembrance.

And Thrillhomo, I know he was actually there.  You know what I meant.  Didn't you?  Like, he didn't actually purchase a ticket through Travelocity.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 10, 2010, 09:42:57 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 10, 2010, 09:35:41 AM
And Thrillhomo, I know he was actually there.  You know what I meant.  Didn't you?  Like, he didn't actually purchase a ticket through Travelocity.

That's not how Desmond's flashing worked at all.

How does TDubbs still not understand this stuff?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on February 10, 2010, 05:19:24 PM
(http://content.ytmnd.com/content/2/1/c/21c5dfa3767d62a1b8d2a09e4213ff97.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
I have a feeling that tonight's episode is going to be awesome.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 09:29:50 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
I have a feeling that tonight's episode is going to be awesome.

It damn well better be better than last week.

Not-Locke's island badassery better be sweet enough to offset alternate timeline Locke's off-island sadsackery.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: MAD on February 16, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
I have a feeling that tonight's episode is going to be awesome.

Thanks, IAN.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 16, 2010, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: MAD on February 16, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
I have a feeling that tonight's episode is going to be awesome.

Thanks, IAN.

This is TDubbs' LOST shtick. Been doing it for years. Do you watch Lost? Serious question.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: MAD on February 16, 2010, 01:15:32 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: MAD on February 16, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
I have a feeling that tonight's episode is going to be awesome.

Thanks, IAN.

This is TDubbs' LOST shtick. Been doing it for years. Do you watch Lost? Serious question.

I do not.  I watched some of the first season, but that's it.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 01:44:50 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: MAD on February 16, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
I have a feeling that tonight's episode is going to be awesome.

Thanks, IAN.

This is TDubbs' LOST shtick. Been doing it for years.

That.

TDubbs reads spoilers but knows no one else wants to know any details. So he just lets us know how awesome each episode is gonna be, on a scale of "awesome."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 02:05:08 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 01:44:50 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: MAD on February 16, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
I have a feeling that tonight's episode is going to be awesome.

Thanks, IAN.

This is TDubbs' LOST shtick. Been doing it for years.

That.

TDubbs reads spoilers but knows no one else wants to know any details. So he just lets us know how awesome each episode is gonna be, on a scale of "awesome."

Actually, I'm going spoiler free this season.  I just have a "feeling".
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on February 16, 2010, 08:00:16 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: MAD on February 16, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 16, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
I have a feeling that tonight's episode is going to be awesome.

Thanks, IAN.

This is TDubbs' LOST shtick. Been doing it for years.

I like it.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

No kidding.

(They could still twist it and make Satan good, of course.)

All in all, a pretty meh episode. I honestly found the off-island stuff way better than the on-island.

Granted, Ben's eulogy was hilarious (as was Lapidus' reaction) and we got a pretty solid reveal, but fuck... even Sawyer came off as a big fucking dope tonight.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: CT III on February 16, 2010, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

No kidding.

(They could still twist it and make Satan good, of course.)

All in all, a pretty meh episode. I honestly found the off-island stuff way better than the on-island.

Granted, Ben's eulogy was hilarious (as was Lapidus' reaction) and we got a pretty solid reveal, but fuck... even Sawyer came off as a big fucking dope tonight.

So TDubbs was wrong?  Shocking.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 09:55:35 PM
Quote from: CT III on February 16, 2010, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

No kidding.

(They could still twist it and make Satan good, of course.)

All in all, a pretty meh episode. I honestly found the off-island stuff way better than the on-island.

Granted, Ben's eulogy was hilarious (as was Lapidus' reaction) and we got a pretty solid reveal, but fuck... even Sawyer came off as a big fucking dope tonight.

So TDubbs was wrong?  Shocking.

One man's opinion.

Pen will probably agree, too, but he doesn't count anyways.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on February 16, 2010, 09:56:30 PM
I liked it.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on February 16, 2010, 10:08:40 PM
Lotsa "why's" in this one.  Making up for lost time.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 16, 2010, 10:17:22 PM
So...
4   - Locke
8   - Reyes
15 - Ford
16 - Jarrah
23 - Shephard
42 - Kwon

And then Locke's name gets crossed off. Assume because he died? I suppose this is the origin of the numbers but I am curious as to why they are in the fashion that they are.. Maybe some way related to the original crash and the amount of people that survived?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 10:28:45 PM
Quote from: Yeti on February 16, 2010, 10:17:22 PM
Maybe some way related to the original crash and the amount of people that survived?

I'm gonna say probably not.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 16, 2010, 11:35:55 PM
What irks me is each preview has the deep-voiced announcer man telling us that the time for questions is over. They've honestly created nothing but questions since the season started. Clock's a tickin.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 16, 2010, 10:17:22 PM
So...
4   - Locke
8   - Reyes
15 - Ford
16 - Jarrah
23 - Shephard
42 - Kwon

And then Locke's name gets crossed off. Assume because he died? I suppose this is the origin of the numbers but I am curious as to why they are in the fashion that they are.. Maybe some way related to the original crash and the amount of people that survived?

And whither Austen?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:14:09 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

No kidding.

(They could still twist it and make Satan good, of course.)

All in all, a pretty meh episode. I honestly found the off-island stuff way better than the on-island.

Granted, Ben's eulogy was hilarious (as was Lapidus' reaction) and we got a pretty solid reveal, but fuck... even Sawyer came off as a big fucking dope tonight.

SPOILERS:  Sawyer kind of IS a big fucking dope.  He's my favorite character, but he's been very confused this entire time.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?

But wasn't Ben already on the island at that point?  You would think that if the bomb went off, either the blast killed everyone, or most of them died trying to get off the island before it sunk.  If somehow Ben survived, that would mean Alter-Ben is still the same guy that Sayid shot, and he knows all about Dharma and the island.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?

But wasn't Ben already on the island at that point?  You would think that if the bomb went off, either the blast killed everyone, or most of them died trying to get off the island before it sunk.  If somehow Ben survived, that would mean Alter-Ben is still the same guy that Sayid shot, and he knows all about Dharma and the island.

Oh, yeah.  Kid-Ben was there already.  Hmm.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:13:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?

But wasn't Ben already on the island at that point?  You would think that if the bomb went off, either the blast killed everyone, or most of them died trying to get off the island before it sunk.  If somehow Ben survived, that would mean Alter-Ben is still the same guy that Sayid shot, and he knows all about Dharma and the island.

Oh, yeah.  Kid-Ben was there already.  Hmm.

I'm wondering if setting off the bomb didn't just affect the characters from that point on, but rather from the beginning of the whole Jacob/Smokie war.  Evil-Locke told Sawyer that Jacob was the one pulling all the strings, moving him (and the rest of the Losties) closer and closer to the island.  If he was never there to bring them to the island, then naturally everything would be different for the characters.  We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).  On the other hand, he didn't touch Jack, Locke, Hurley, Jin/Sun, and I believe Sayid, until later on, which would explain why their Alternate timelines seem pretty similar to the originals, with the exception of Hurley.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 12:20:41 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:13:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?

But wasn't Ben already on the island at that point?  You would think that if the bomb went off, either the blast killed everyone, or most of them died trying to get off the island before it sunk.  If somehow Ben survived, that would mean Alter-Ben is still the same guy that Sayid shot, and he knows all about Dharma and the island.

Oh, yeah.  Kid-Ben was there already.  Hmm.

I'm wondering if setting off the bomb didn't just affect the characters from that point on, but rather from the beginning of the whole Jacob/Smokie war.  Evil-Locke told Sawyer that Jacob was the one pulling all the strings, moving him (and the rest of the Losties) closer and closer to the island.  If he was never there to bring them to the island, then naturally everything would be different for the characters.  We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).  On the other hand, he didn't touch Jack, Locke, Hurley, Jin/Sun, and I believe Sayid, until later on, which would explain why their Alternate timelines seem pretty similar to the originals, with the exception of Hurley.

He didn't touch Hurley until after they were already rescued as the Oceanic 6. 
It could explain why he has good luck b/c he didn't win teh lotto off of the "cursed" numbers.

Maybe b/c of the bomb going off, Jack was the real Candidate b/c he got rid of the island?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 12:20:41 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:13:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

How far back can we already see they're affected?  I'm guessing the furthest back so far is Ben never going to the island.  What is that?  40 years?

But wasn't Ben already on the island at that point?  You would think that if the bomb went off, either the blast killed everyone, or most of them died trying to get off the island before it sunk.  If somehow Ben survived, that would mean Alter-Ben is still the same guy that Sayid shot, and he knows all about Dharma and the island.

Oh, yeah.  Kid-Ben was there already.  Hmm.

I'm wondering if setting off the bomb didn't just affect the characters from that point on, but rather from the beginning of the whole Jacob/Smokie war.  Evil-Locke told Sawyer that Jacob was the one pulling all the strings, moving him (and the rest of the Losties) closer and closer to the island.  If he was never there to bring them to the island, then naturally everything would be different for the characters.  We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).  On the other hand, he didn't touch Jack, Locke, Hurley, Jin/Sun, and I believe Sayid, until later on, which would explain why their Alternate timelines seem pretty similar to the originals, with the exception of Hurley.

He didn't touch Hurley until after they were already rescued as the Oceanic 6. 
It could explain why he has good luck b/c he didn't win teh lotto off of the "cursed" numbers.

Maybe b/c of the bomb going off, Jack was the real Candidate b/c he got rid of the island?

The only thing that doesn't make sense about that is Hurley was a Candidate, but he was never influenced by Jacob, unless it simply hasn't been shown yet or we're supposed to assume that the numbers were how he was brought to the island, instead of Jacob touching him.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on February 17, 2010, 12:53:38 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 09:55:35 PM
Quote from: CT III on February 16, 2010, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 16, 2010, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

No kidding.

(They could still twist it and make Satan good, of course.)

All in all, a pretty meh episode. I honestly found the off-island stuff way better than the on-island.

Granted, Ben's eulogy was hilarious (as was Lapidus' reaction) and we got a pretty solid reveal, but fuck... even Sawyer came off as a big fucking dope tonight.

So TDubbs was wrong?  Shocking.

One man's opinion.

Pen will probably agree, too, but he doesn't count anyways.

Actually, I won't.
Thought it was a great episode.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 12:55:31 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

I'm more interested in what he was saying.

When he said, "you can't kill him," was he talking about Sawyer?

Jacob and his replacement, the guardians of whatever it is that the island is or represents, seem to be the only thing keeping NotLocke from being released from his "trap" and "going home." NotLocke's end game (for getting "home"), then, would be to kill all of the possible replacements. The temple folk and Richard, presumably, would be trying to keep this from happening.

We already knew he couldn't himself kill Jacob. And, if he couldn't kill Jacob, perhaps he can't kill Jacob's replacement either. Or maybe even any of his potential replacements. And, if this is the case, he'd have to get someone else to do that dirty work for him, too.

I think, at the very least, this is where Sawyer fits into his plans at the moment.

He told Sawyer that Jacob would have come to him at a point in his life where he was angry and vulnerable. And that Jacob just pulled his strings while making him believe he was acting of his free will.

This (dramatic irony!) is obviously exactly what NotLocke himself is doing to Sawyer in 2007 (and what he previously did to Ben). He's pressing on Sawyer's anger and his resentment of the island, and it seems he's pressing it against the rest of the Losties.

Is he trying to manipulate them into killing each other for him?

Where would Claire, Christian and Sayid fit into this? Has Claire already been "recruited" by NotLocke or is she a freelancer like Rousseau was?

What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

Finally, of course... Who's the new Jacob?

Locke? His name got crossed off, but I kind of hope that was somehow premature. I'd love it if it turned out that he wasn't a total fucking dupe all the way to the end.

Jack? This strikes me as the most obvious, particularly given his latter-day conversion to Locke-like faith in the island, but I really, really fucking hope it's not the case. God, I hate that guy.

Sawyer? That would be kind of bad ass, and would probably require a dramatic come-to-Jesus moment of sorts.

Sayid? He's already come back from the dead, but the Temple folk don't seem too keen on him.

Sun/Jin? Boring.

Hurley? The darkhorse, dude.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 01:09:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 12:55:31 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.
What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

It feels like they serve absolutely no purpose after the time travel story ended.  I don't see how they fit into any of this, other than being catalysts for bringing the Losties to and from the island.

Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on February 17, 2010, 01:10:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I thought this too, so somehow in the parallel universe Locke is still paralyzed, but not b/c of anything to do with his Dad.
Which seems quite confusing.

Also, on a separate note, if Fake Locke is to be believed, why was Jacob so intent on finding a replacement to guard the island?
Seems like he had a pretty sweet gig of his own, not sure why he'd want to pass the torch.

I still hope Desmond comes back to the Island somehow, he's an infinitely better character than most of these remaining dopes.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 17, 2010, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 01:09:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 12:55:31 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.
What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

It feels like they serve absolutely no purpose after the time travel story ended.  I don't see how they fit into any of this, other than being catalysts for bringing the Losties to and from the island.

Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

Cooper told either Sawyer or Locke (can't remember which) that he was in a car accident and woke up on the island, if that helps.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on February 17, 2010, 01:21:02 PM
Quote from: Yeti on February 17, 2010, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 01:09:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 12:55:31 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob. 

I also wonder how far back the blowing up of the bomb affected the Losties' lives. 

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.
What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

It feels like they serve absolutely no purpose after the time travel story ended.  I don't see how they fit into any of this, other than being catalysts for bringing the Losties to and from the island.

Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

Cooper told either Sawyer or Locke (can't remember which) that he was in a car accident and woke up on the island, if that helps.

Magic Box?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 01:09:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 12:55:31 PM
What about Widmore and Hawking? Whose side are they on? Is there a connection between NotLocke's inability to kill Jacob (and maybe others) and the rules governing Ben and Widmore's war (I seem to recall that Ben and Widmore couldn't kill each other, even given the opportunity)? And does anyone remember (have we ever even been told) why Widmore was booted from the island in the first place?

It feels like they serve absolutely no purpose after the time travel story ended.  I don't see how they fit into any of this, other than being catalysts for bringing the Losties to and from the island.

I'm not suggesting that we necessarily see them again. I'm just wondering which side they were pulling strings for.

I got to wondering about this because I was thinking about angels, Lucifer and the like in the wake of last night's episode and came to think of Matthew Abaddon, who worked for Widmore.

Abaddon is a "place of destruction" associated with the realm of the dead.

In Revelation in particular, though, Abaddon is the name of the angel of the Abyss, the destroying angel and the king of locusts that overtake the earth to torture men.

(Satan is later cast down into the Abyss, where he is imprisoned [trapped?] for a thousand years during which Christ reigns over the Earth. After the thousand years, he's released from his imprisonment and wages war against the people of God.)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: Yeti on February 17, 2010, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 01:09:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

Cooper told either Sawyer or Locke (can't remember which) that he was in a car accident and woke up on the island, if that helps.

That was the original timeline, though, right? We're talking about what changed in the alternate timeline.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 01:33:55 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: Yeti on February 17, 2010, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 01:09:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Weebs on February 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
We haven't seen much Alter-Sawyer yet, but from the brief moments they've showed, he at least seemed a little more friendly and less of a cocky douchebag, which would make sense because Jacob touched him when he was a child (awesome).

Interestingly, when Locke and Helen were talking about eloping, she said they'd bring her parents and his dad with.

Did something changed in the alternate timeline that allowed Locke to be on decent terms with his dad? Would this mean that Anthony Cooper also never swindled Sawyer's parents?

I'm guessing that if Jacob never was there to keep Locke alive when he was pushed out of the building, then his paralysis has absolutely nothing to do with his dad.  And assuming they were on good terms, he probably wasn't a con man.  Although Anthony Cooper's story never had anything to do with the island.  In fact, did they ever explain exactly how he got on the island before Sawyer killed him?

Cooper told either Sawyer or Locke (can't remember which) that he was in a car accident and woke up on the island, if that helps.

That was the original timeline, though, right? We're talking about what changed in the alternate timeline.

I was actually referring to the original one.  I was wondering if it was ever explained how Cooper got to the island.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 17, 2010, 01:42:17 PM
I'm really going to be disappointed if this turns out to be one long allegory.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 17, 2010, 01:42:17 PM
I'm really going to be disappointed if this turns out to be one long allegory.

I think it's the exact opposite of that.

I think it's taking stuff that's normally used allegorically (struggles between gods, angels, devils, whatever) and making it literal.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on February 18, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

I don't think Evil Locke is Satan.  I think he's just some dude that sometimes turns into smoke that wants to go home.  He's like the Ben Affleck character in "Dogma".
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 18, 2010, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: JD on February 18, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

I don't think Evil Locke is Satan.  I think he's just some dude that sometimes turns into smoke that wants to go home.  He's like the Ben Affleck character in "Dogma".

So, he's a fallen angel... Like Satan.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 06:06:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 18, 2010, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: JD on February 18, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

I don't think Evil Locke is Satan.  I think he's just some dude that sometimes turns into smoke that wants to go home.  He's like the Ben Affleck character in "Dogma".

So, he's a fallen angel... Like Satan.

I will never forgive this show for all the retarded religious websites (http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/angels.html) i've ended up on trying to do "research."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Canadouche on February 19, 2010, 07:07:46 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 06:06:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 18, 2010, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: JD on February 18, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

I don't think Evil Locke is Satan.  I think he's just some dude that sometimes turns into smoke that wants to go home.  He's like the Ben Affleck character in "Dogma".

So, he's a fallen angel... Like Satan.

I will never forgive this show for all the retarded religious websites (http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/angels.html) i've ended up on trying to do "research."


I think Smoke Locke is meant to be Esau, who is Biblical Jacob's brother.  The Wiki article on the subject of Esau describes him as a "hunter," while his brother Jacob was shy and simple.  Esau and Jacob do not get along, battling each other regularly for their inheritance, but at his mother's request Esau vowed to never kill Jacob.  More interesting about this idea is that it's unclear as to which brother is the "good" one, arguably either can be seen as good or bad.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 19, 2010, 08:45:47 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on February 19, 2010, 07:07:46 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 06:06:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 18, 2010, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: JD on February 18, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

I don't think Evil Locke is Satan.  I think he's just some dude that sometimes turns into smoke that wants to go home.  He's like the Ben Affleck character in "Dogma".

So, he's a fallen angel... Like Satan.

I will never forgive this show for all the retarded religious websites (http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/angels.html) i've ended up on trying to do "research."


I think Smoke Locke is meant to be Esau, who is Biblical Jacob's brother.  The Wiki article on the subject of Esau describes him as a "hunter," while his brother Jacob was shy and simple.  Esau and Jacob do not get along, battling each other regularly for their inheritance, but at his mother's request Esau vowed to never kill Jacob.  More interesting about this idea is that it's unclear as to which brother is the "good" one, arguably either can be seen as good or bad.

Just a thought.

Way to figure that out for us...

http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6594.msg178056#msg178056

FWIW...

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/07/lost_comiccon_highlights.html

QuoteEmerson fielded a question about the fans' nicknaming Jacob's rival "Esau" by saying, "We sometimes deal in Biblical iimagery, but we tend to dance in and back away from it. That might be too much, but I like the way your mind is working."

"You're good at this!" Damon told Emerson, marveling at how impressively he non-answered that.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 19, 2010, 09:59:46 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 19, 2010, 08:45:47 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on February 19, 2010, 07:07:46 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 06:06:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 18, 2010, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: JD on February 18, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

I don't think Evil Locke is Satan.  I think he's just some dude that sometimes turns into smoke that wants to go home.  He's like the Ben Affleck character in "Dogma".

So, he's a fallen angel... Like Satan.

I will never forgive this show for all the retarded religious websites (http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/angels.html) i've ended up on trying to do "research."


I think Smoke Locke is meant to be Esau, who is Biblical Jacob's brother.  The Wiki article on the subject of Esau describes him as a "hunter," while his brother Jacob was shy and simple.  Esau and Jacob do not get along, battling each other regularly for their inheritance, but at his mother's request Esau vowed to never kill Jacob.  More interesting about this idea is that it's unclear as to which brother is the "good" one, arguably either can be seen as good or bad.

Just a thought.

Way to figure that out for us...

http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6594.msg178056#msg178056

FWIW...

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/07/lost_comiccon_highlights.html

QuoteEmerson fielded a question about the fans' nicknaming Jacob's rival "Esau" by saying, "We sometimes deal in Biblical iimagery, but we tend to dance in and back away from it. That might be too much, but I like the way your mind is working."

"You're good at this!" Damon told Emerson, marveling at how impressively he non-answered that.

I think this "Henry Gale" may not be who he says he is. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on February 19, 2010, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

Every day, brother.  Every.  Damn.  Day.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 21, 2010, 12:06:07 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on February 17, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 17, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Who was the little kid that talked to Smokey?  And why could Sawyer see him and not Alpert? 
I'm thinking it'd be too easy to say it's a young Jacob.

It is, but that's exactly what I said, too.  The kid sure looked like a younger version of Jacob.

Aaron?

Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 12:55:31 PMJacob and his replacement, the guardians of whatever it is that the island is or represents, seem to be the only thing keeping NotLocke from being released from his "trap" and "going home." NotLocke's end game (for getting "home"), then, would be to kill all of the possible replacements. The temple folk and Richard, presumably, would be trying to keep this from happening.

We already knew he couldn't himself kill Jacob. And, if he couldn't kill Jacob, perhaps he can't kill Jacob's replacement either. Or maybe even any of his potential replacements. And, if this is the case, he'd have to get someone else to do that dirty work for him, too.

I think, at the very least, this is where Sawyer fits into his plans at the moment.

He told Sawyer that Jacob would have come to him at a point in his life where he was angry and vulnerable. And that Jacob just pulled his strings while making him believe he was acting of his free will.

This (dramatic irony!) is obviously exactly what NotLocke himself is doing to Sawyer in 2007 (and what he previously did to Ben). He's pressing on Sawyer's anger and his resentment of the island, and it seems he's pressing it against the rest of the Losties.

Is he trying to manipulate them into killing each other for him?

A whole bucket full of THATjuice. I'd add this from the AV Club that I found plausible:

QuoteAfter possible thousands upon thousands of years plotting and waiting you would naturally assume the Smokey wouldn't be so rash as to break the rule he so painstakingly loopholed. And yes Jacob was more than likely mortally stabbed, and at that repeatedly. However, Smokey lost his cool because Jacob wasn't dying fast enough so he hurried it along. While Smokey could argue that Jacob's passing was inevitable/destined it seems from blonde lost boys' accusation that the kid at least (if not the Island itself) holds the opposite view.

Jacob may have looped Smokey's loophole, and there will be consequences, one of which might be that only Jacob gets to pick the candidate. If Smokey finds out that Sawyer can't help with getting off the Island we can only hope Sawyer can quickly produce a circle of ash (or is it black sand).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 21, 2010, 10:00:38 AM
DPD. Significant that Kate wasn't mentioned in Esau's rundown of the Oceanic names Jacob wrote on the cave walls?

QuoteIt was certainly compelling that Kate does not represent one of the familiar numbers (Locke = 4, Reyes = 8, Ford = 15, Jarrah = 16, Shephard = 23, and Kwon = 42).  We were looking for Austen and 108 but found neither.  What does this mean for Kate?  Obviously Jacob still visited and touched her, but she doesn’t represent any of those famous 6 numbers we’re used to hearing.

http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/2010/02/17/lost-episode-6%C3%9704-%E2%80%9Cthe-substitute%E2%80%9D-screencaps-easter-eggs-analysis/

Edited to add a rundown of all the candidates: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2010/02/episode-6x04-substitute-candidates.html
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on February 22, 2010, 06:47:07 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 06:06:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 18, 2010, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: JD on February 18, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 16, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Well Evil Locke as Satan seems pretty certain at this point.

I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?
Wouldn't that mean that Jacob was God and that now God is dead?

Because that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

I don't think Evil Locke is Satan.  I think he's just some dude that sometimes turns into smoke that wants to go home.  He's like the Ben Affleck character in "Dogma".

So, he's a fallen angel... Like Satan.

I will never forgive this show for all the retarded religious websites (http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/angels.html) i've ended up on trying to do "research."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXQDa7GzPYw
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 22, 2010, 08:02:20 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 21, 2010, 10:00:38 AM
DPD. Significant that Kate wasn't mentioned in Esau's rundown of the Oceanic names Jacob wrote on the cave walls?

QuoteIt was certainly compelling that Kate does not represent one of the familiar numbers (Locke = 4, Reyes = 8, Ford = 15, Jarrah = 16, Shephard = 23, and Kwon = 42).  We were looking for Austen and 108 but found neither.  What does this mean for Kate?  Obviously Jacob still visited and touched her, but she doesn't represent any of those famous 6 numbers we're used to hearing.

http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/2010/02/17/lost-episode-6%C3%9704-%E2%80%9Cthe-substitute%E2%80%9D-screencaps-easter-eggs-analysis/

Edited to add a rundown of all the candidates: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2010/02/episode-6x04-substitute-candidates.html

Forgive me, but why 108?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: ChuckD on February 22, 2010, 08:15:21 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 22, 2010, 08:02:20 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 21, 2010, 10:00:38 AM
DPD. Significant that Kate wasn't mentioned in Esau's rundown of the Oceanic names Jacob wrote on the cave walls?

QuoteIt was certainly compelling that Kate does not represent one of the familiar numbers (Locke = 4, Reyes = 8, Ford = 15, Jarrah = 16, Shephard = 23, and Kwon = 42).  We were looking for Austen and 108 but found neither.  What does this mean for Kate?  Obviously Jacob still visited and touched her, but she doesn't represent any of those famous 6 numbers we're used to hearing.

http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/2010/02/17/lost-episode-6%C3%9704-%E2%80%9Cthe-substitute%E2%80%9D-screencaps-easter-eggs-analysis/

Edited to add a rundown of all the candidates: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2010/02/episode-6x04-substitute-candidates.html

Forgive me, but why 108?

4+8+15+16+23+42=108
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 22, 2010, 08:17:22 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 22, 2010, 08:02:20 AMForgive me, but why 108?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/108

Also, the comment sections on the AV Club recaps (http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-substitute,38301/) are the tits. Can't figure out how to link to individual comments, but this is good stuff on faith/destiny vs. reason/free will.

QuoteI never got around to posting this after the season six premiere, but I was fairly certain that Jacob and Smokey represented the battle between free will and destiny. During their only scene together in season five, Jacob brings the Black Rock to the Island because he wants to see what will happen. Smokey maintains the same thing will always happen when people come to the Island - there will be destruction and death. Jacob disagrees.

When Jacob goes off-island to meet the survivors at certain points in their lives, he always appears to them when they're about to make a choice on who they will become. Therefore, I was fairly certain that Jacob represented free will and Smokey as destiny. Jacob saw humanity as able to change for the positive while Smokey was the pessimist. Smokey "judged" people and saw them unfit to live.

Now, with Smokey's conversation to Sawyer about free will and Jacob being the one pushing people toward their destiny, my whole theory is in shambles. I sense that neither Jacob nor Smokey are truly "evil," but neither have the best interest of others in their minds.

QuoteI'm beginning to think free will vs. destiny may not be the concepts we should be paying attention to, but instead faith vs. reason. The story of Locke is a story of faith, and in contrast it seems that UnLocke is a man of unquestioning reason. He doesn't ask people to follow him on blind faith, but instead explains his motives, and provides answers.

QuoteI kind of see those arguments as being intertwined though...faith and destiny go hand in hand, as do free will and reason. If you have faith then it's almost a forgone conclusion that you believe everything is guided by unseen hands/will turn out okay, etc, while having no real evidence to prove that. If you believe in free will then it's fiarly likely you are a big believer in reason--i.e. that things will not happen unless something is directly done to cause those things to happen.

QuoteSmokey/Esau maybe really is like Lucifer (the most appealing character in Paradise Lost) and Jacob really is something like the Judeo-Christian God and Smokey perfectly articulates my number one problem with the Judeo-Christian God, which is if God is all powerful why give humans free will? It's just fucking cruel and leads to all kinds of horrible suffering. Furthermore, the proffered "free will" is ultimately bullshit as it all plays out on a chess board of God's own design. To wit, Jacob manipulates every aspect of all of these peoples' lives to bring them to the island to then make them make impossible choices with no good answer which leads to all this suffering which he then terms "progress". And for what?

      The more I think about it the more I see the Man in Black as something closer to the "good guy", but that's probably ultimately more a reflection of my left-wing/anti-religious/pro-science/pro-reason sympathies than anything.

QuoteSo far, Lost has offered a complex and disturbing portrait of the paternalistic interventionary God that's entirely in keeping with my reasons for thinking such a thing can't possibly exist.

      If it did, it would be a total asshat.

      However, Smokey is as much of an asshat as Jacob, if not even more.

QuoteI that was the most interesting part of the episode for me; that the show is widening the view of Jacob & His Nemesis to where you can see the possibility that , as Noel put it, MIB may not be Eeeeevilllll. I think it is pretty clear that he has been manipulating characters to achieve his own goals (selfishly? maybe not), but we've seen that Jacob is playing a similar game, and we don't know what either of their "goals" are exactly.

      In the same way I don't think LOST will ever fall on one side of a faith vs. reason debate, I'd be surprised if Jacob vs. MIB comes down to one side being the "winner" and I love that they are starting to bring in the gray between Jacob & MIB's white & black.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 22, 2010, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 22, 2010, 08:17:22 AM
Quote from: Yeti on February 22, 2010, 08:02:20 AMForgive me, but why 108?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/108


I guess this is the shit I miss when I only start watching the show on a week to week basis in the last season.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 01:11:20 AM
The speculation about comparing Jacob to "something like the Judeo-Christian God" made me think about Pen's question up-thread:

Quote from: PenFoe on February 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM
I don't know my make believe religious tales that well, but isn't Satan's nemesis God?... Does Satan have any other dudes who battle him?

Satan doesn't really fight God himself so much as he fights God through fighting God's angels...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12&version=NIV

Quote7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Angels are God's agents. They fight his fights as his servants. (In some Islamic interpretations, they apparently even lack free will altogether, never wearying of his service (http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/021.qmt.html#021.019).)

When EvilLocke says, "Hello, Richard. It's good to see you out of those chains," (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/LA_X,_Parts_1_%26_2_transcript) this seems to suggest liberation from servitude. Service to Jacob, no doubt.

(Possibly spoilerish: Taking a more literal interpretation, I've been running into speculation on the internet (inadvertently, I might add) suggesting that Alpert arrived on the Black Rock as a prisoner en route to the Australian penal colony, which makes sense enough and seems rather Lost-like.)

Interestingly enough, Alpert is likely named after this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass) (whom Wheezer may be familiar with). Born Richard Alpert, Ram Dass' assumed name means "servant of Rama" or "servant of God" in Hindi.

Richard Alpert = Servant of God.

If we followed this train of thought, would that necessarily entail Jacob = God? Maybe, maybe not.

Back to Biblical angels...

The archangel Michael is the leader of God's army—trampler of Satan—in heaven. On Earth, though, he was the guardian angel of Israel the nation (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12&version=NIV)...

Quote1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

...and, in tradition, the guardian angel of (presumably by extension) Israel the man (aka, Jacob).

(Some traditions (http://www.book-lover.com/legendsofthejews/1/1lotj10_jacob_wrestles_with_the.html) name Michael as the angel (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea+12:4&version=NIV) who wrestled Jacob (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+32:22-31&version=NIV). As I found before (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg204368#msg204368), there are other traditions that have this angel as a malevolent adversary—in particular, the guardian angel of Esau (http://www.ravkooktorah.org/VAYISH64.htm), possibly Satan.)

In any event, before this, Jacob encountered some of God's angels on the road to Canaan (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+32:1-2&version=NIV) (and, before that, dreamt of them (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+28:10-12&version=NIV) ascending to and descending from heaven). These angels were his bodyguards (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+48:16&version=NIV) as he traveled. (The all-night man-on-angel wrestling party came when he found himself alone after sending his "servants" ahead.)

So, these "ministering angels" serve God by acting as servants of man.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 01:12:29 AM
So, on the topic of angels serving man... Turns out Satan's not so hot on the idea.

In many traditions, Satan/Lucifer was cast down from heaven for refusing to bow before Adam, considering man an inferior creature.

This idea is found in apocryphal Judeo–Christian books, as well as in the Qur'an...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#Islamic_point_of_view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_%28Islam%29
http://quran.com/7

QuoteAnd We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.

[ Allah ] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

[ Allah ] said, "Descend from Paradise, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.

(Where angels are seen as incapable of free will, the Devil Iblis is considered not an angel, but a jinn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie).)

Jewish Midrash puts these words from Pslam 8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+8:4-5&version=NIV) into the mouths of the angels upon the creation of Adam:

Quote4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
       the son of man that you care for him?

5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
       and crowned him with glory and honor.

"This trouble, for what has it been created?" (http://www.archive.org/stream/midrashrabbahgen027557mbp/midrashrabbahgen027557mbp_djvu.txt)

(Man being "trouble," I have to imagine, thanks to his free will to disobey God.)

Old school American fire and brimstone guy, Jonathan Edwards (http://answering-islam.org/Books/Zwemer/Studies/chap10.htm), preached a Christian version:

QuoteAnd as all the angels are called the sons of God, Lucifer was his first-born, and was the first-born of every creature. But when it was revealed to him, high and glorious as he was, that he must be a ministering spirit to the race of mankind which he had seen newly created, which appeared so feeble, mean, and despicable, so vastly inferior, not only to him, the prince of the angels, and head of the created universe, but also to the inferior angels, and that he must be subject to one of that race that should hereafter be born, he could not bear it.

Does this contempt translate into Lost terms at all?

While trying to "recruit" him (recruiting for what, an army?), EvilLocke needles Alpert for being blindly and unquestioningly obedient to Jacob for all these years (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Substitute_transcript):

QuoteLOCKE: Oh, Richard... I'm sorry. You mean, you've been doing everything he told you all this time and he never said why? [music to Chuck's ears] I would never have done that to you. I would never have kept you in the dark.

RICHARD: And what would you have done?

LOCKE: I would have treated you with respect. Come with me... and I promise I will tell you everything.

These words have a strong scent of sulfur to them. They certainly sound a bit like Satan mocking a 'servant of God' for their blind obedience.

At the same time, I don't think it would be a tremendous stretch to also compare this to Satan mocking an angel of God for unquestioningly prostrating himself before man that he (among others) was serving and protecting.

Okay... maybe it is a bit of a stretch. What do you want from me?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 11:35:57 AM
Non-Abrahamic religions had evil guys, too.

Egyptian...

With all the talk of Egyptian mythology, has anyone ever brought up Set?

A desert god, god of chaos and storms, Set was the murderer of his younger brother Osiris and long-time nemesis of Osiris' son Horus. He used trickery to kill Osiris, but not to the extent of avoiding the dirty work. (In one version of the myth, he totally dismembered Osiris' body afterwards. His penis was swallowed by a fish and never recovered.)

FWIW, he was not always a bad guy. Before his demonization, he had been worshiped as a major God in parts of ancient Egypt and had even been the defender of the sun god Ra (later apparently merged with Horus, or at least considered an aspect of Horus) against the other great demon of Egyptian cosmology, the serpent Apep.

Apep was more purely evil. As demon of the night, Apep was the underworld nemesis of Ra. As demon of chaos, he was the primary opponent of Maat, the Egyptian principle of order.

Dubious Lost connection(s):

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

QuoteWas ("power") scepters represent the typhonic or Set-animal (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). Was scepters were depicted as being carried by gods, pharaohs, and priests, as a symbol of power, and in later use, as a symbol of control over the force of chaos that Set represented.

The goddess Maat, who (along with her male counterpart Thoth) upheld balance and order, and whose feather was weighed against the souls of the dead on Anubis' scales, can be seen here holding a was scepter in one hand and an ankh in the other. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat)

Before being killed by Smokey/EvilLocke (which he proved unable to control), Lostie priest Mr. Eko carried his Jesus stick for to beat the shit out of chaos (and some people).

2) The Eye of Horus: Horus' eyes represented the sun and the moon. The moon was dimmer only because Set plucked it out at one point. John Locke has always had a notable scar over his eye (from the crash) which bears at least something of a resemblance to the teardrop shape sometimes found on the Eye of Horus. The scar is on Locke's right eye, though, while it was Horus' left eye that was associated with the moon.

Non-Lost-related tidbit: Set was said to have read hair. Another bad guy with red hair (this time all over his body): Esau. Because no one likes a ginger.

Norse (hey, Slak)...

Loki: shape-shifting trickster god and/or giant. Father of Hel, queen of the underworld (which itself is also called Hel). Loki is slated to be the enemy of the gods at Ragnarök, the final, Apocalyptic battle of Norse eschatology. Until that time comes, though, he's bound to a rock by his son's entrails.

Loki was responsible for the death of Baldr: god of light, son of Odin, considered the most beautiful, most awesome and most white of all the gods. Baldr's mom made everything on the earth promise to never harm him, except, for some reason, mistletoe. Oops.

Because they thought Baldr couldn't be be hurt, a favorite hobby of the gods was apparently to throw shit at him and watch him not die. Loki figured out the loophole, though, and made an arrow or dart out of mistletoe and tricked Baldr's blind brother Höðr into shooting/throwing it at him. Baldr died, but he'll be reborn after Ragnarök destroys the Gods.

(Loki, too, was not always evil. Often enough, he used his cunning on behalf of the Gods. But the killing of Baldr left him persona non grata in Asgard and set off the chain of events leading to Ragnarök.)

Dubious Lost connection:

Höðr is rendered in non-insane alphabets as Hoth, Hothr, Hod or Hoder. Last season's 13th episode (the one with Miles flashbacks and Hurley-led Ewok-bashing) was titled "Some Like It Hoth."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 11:39:31 AM
Finally, a somewhat unorthodox Persian version of the Abrahamic Satan, courtesy of Joseph Campbell...

http://www.jungland.ru/Library/CampMoye.htm

QuoteMOYERS: And yet one of my favorite myths is the story from Persia that Satan was condemned to hell because he loved God so much.

CAMPBELL: Yes, that's a basic Muslim idea about Satan being God's greatest lover. There are a number of ways of thinking about Satan, but this is based on the question, Why was Satan thrown into hell? The standard story is that, when God created the angels, he told them to bow to none but himself. Then he created man, whom he regarded as a higher form than the angels, and he asked the angels to serve man. And Satan would not bow to man.

Now, this is interpreted in the Christian tradition, as I recall from my boyhood instruction, as being the egotism of Satan. He would not bow to man. But in the Persian story, he could not bow to man because of his love for God -- he could bow only to God. God had changed his signals, do you see? But Satan had so committed himself to the first set of signals that he could not violate those, and in his -- I don't know if Satan has a heart or not -- but in his mind, he could not bow to anyone but God, whom he loved. And then God says, "Get out of my sight."

Now, the worst of the pains of hell, insofar as hell has been described, is the absence of the Beloved, which is God. So how does Satan sustain the situation in hell? By the memory of the echo of God's voice, when God said, "Go to hell." That is a great sign of love.

MOYERS: Well, it's certainly true in life that the greatest hell one can know is to be separated from the one you love. That's why I've liked the Persian myth. Satan is God's lover --

CAMPBELL: -- and he is separated from God, and that's the real pain of Satan.

Dubiouser and dubiouser...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Substitute_transcript

QuoteLOCKE: What I am is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't even remember what it feels like to be free. Maybe you can understand that. But before I was trapped, I was a man, James. Just like you.

SAWYER: I'm havin' a hard time believin' that...

LOCKE: You can believe whatever you want, that's the truth. I know what it's like to feel joy... to feel pain, anger, fear... to experience betrayal. I know what it's like to lose someone you love.

Did EvilLocke love and lose? Does this have anything to do with his desire to "go home"? Or is he just verbally punching Sawyer in the nuts again?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 23, 2010, 11:52:53 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 11:39:31 AM
Finally, a somewhat unorthodox Persian version of the Abrahamic Satan, courtesy of Joseph Campbell...

http://www.jungland.ru/Library/CampMoye.htm

QuoteMOYERS: And yet one of my favorite myths is the story from Persia that Satan was condemned to hell because he loved God so much.

CAMPBELL: Yes, that's a basic Muslim idea about Satan being God's greatest lover. There are a number of ways of thinking about Satan, but this is based on the question, Why was Satan thrown into hell? The standard story is that, when God created the angels, he told them to bow to none but himself. Then he created man, whom he regarded as a higher form than the angels, and he asked the angels to serve man. And Satan would not bow to man.

Now, this is interpreted in the Christian tradition, as I recall from my boyhood instruction, as being the egotism of Satan. He would not bow to man. But in the Persian story, he could not bow to man because of his love for God -- he could bow only to God. God had changed his signals, do you see? But Satan had so committed himself to the first set of signals that he could not violate those, and in his -- I don't know if Satan has a heart or not -- but in his mind, he could not bow to anyone but God, whom he loved. And then God says, "Get out of my sight."

Now, the worst of the pains of hell, insofar as hell has been described, is the absence of the Beloved, which is God. So how does Satan sustain the situation in hell? By the memory of the echo of God's voice, when God said, "Go to hell." That is a great sign of love.

MOYERS: Well, it's certainly true in life that the greatest hell one can know is to be separated from the one you love. That's why I've liked the Persian myth. Satan is God's lover --

CAMPBELL: -- and he is separated from God, and that's the real pain of Satan.

Dubiouser and dubiouser...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Substitute_transcript

QuoteLOCKE: What I am is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't even remember what it feels like to be free. Maybe you can understand that. But before I was trapped, I was a man, James. Just like you.

SAWYER: I'm havin' a hard time believin' that...

LOCKE: You can believe whatever you want, that's the truth. I know what it's like to feel joy... to feel pain, anger, fear... to experience betrayal. I know what it's like to lose someone you love.

Did EvilLocke love and lose? Does this have anything to do with his desire to "go home"? Or is he just verbally punching Sawyer in the nuts again?

I hope it turns out to be just a dude and some smoke, living on a crazy island.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 23, 2010, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 11:35:57 AM
Non-Abrahamic religions had evil guys, too.

Egyptian...

With all the talk of Egyptian mythology, has anyone ever brought up Set?



I think so... (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6594.msg172430#msg172430)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 12:12:54 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 23, 2010, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 11:35:57 AM
Non-Abrahamic religions had evil guys, too.

Egyptian...

With all the talk of Egyptian mythology, has anyone ever brought up Set?



I think so... (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6594.msg172430#msg172430)

When are we gonna have that linguine?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 23, 2010, 12:13:28 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 23, 2010, 11:52:53 AM


I hope it turns out to be just a dude and some smoke, living on a crazy island.

THI
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 23, 2010, 12:18:07 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 12:12:54 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 23, 2010, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 11:35:57 AM
Non-Abrahamic religions had evil guys, too.

Egyptian...

With all the talk of Egyptian mythology, has anyone ever brought up Set?



I think so... (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6594.msg172430#msg172430)

When are we gonna have that linguine?

Little did we know, way back then, we'd be eating linguine in an alternate timeline.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on February 23, 2010, 03:42:07 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 01:11:20 AM
Interestingly enough, Alpert is likely named after this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass) (whom Wheezer may be familiar with). Born Richard Alpert, Ram Dass' assumed name means "servant of Rama" or "servant of God" in Hindi.

I've got this (http://www.zbs.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=330) on vinyl. Remember, what G-d wants first and foremost is for you to dress up in bedsheets.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 04:58:31 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 12:55:31 PM
Finally, of course... Who's the new Jacob?

Locke? His name got crossed off, but I kind of hope that was somehow premature. I'd love it if it turned out that he wasn't a total fucking dupe all the way to the end.

Jack? This strikes me as the most obvious, particularly given his latter-day conversion to Locke-like faith in the island, but I really, really fucking hope it's not the case. God, I hate that guy.

Sawyer? That would be kind of bad ass, and would probably require a dramatic come-to-Jesus moment of sorts.

Sayid? He's already come back from the dead, but the Temple folk don't seem too keen on him.

Sun/Jin? Boring.

Hurley? The darkhorse, dude.

I'm sure everyone else has thought of this already, but it occurs to me suddenly that I could add Christian to this list, as well. I mean, it would be lame and all, but it would fit...

Quote from: Yeti on February 16, 2010, 10:17:22 PM
4   - Locke
8   - Reyes
15 - Ford
16 - Jarrah
23 - Shephard
42 - Kwon

Maybe even Claire, too, which could throw us for a loop on the whole "infection" tip.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 09:03:04 PM
I feel like shit's gonna get real next week.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 23, 2010, 09:16:27 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 04:58:31 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 17, 2010, 12:55:31 PM
Finally, of course... Who's the new Jacob?

Locke? His name got crossed off, but I kind of hope that was somehow premature. I'd love it if it turned out that he wasn't a total fucking dupe all the way to the end.

Jack? This strikes me as the most obvious, particularly given his latter-day conversion to Locke-like faith in the island, but I really, really fucking hope it's not the case. God, I hate that guy.

Sawyer? That would be kind of bad ass, and would probably require a dramatic come-to-Jesus moment of sorts.

Sayid? He's already come back from the dead, but the Temple folk don't seem too keen on him.

Sun/Jin? Boring.

Hurley? The darkhorse, dude.

I'm sure everyone else has thought of this already, but it occurs to me suddenly that I could add Christian to this list, as well. I mean, it would be lame and all, but it would fit...

Quote from: Yeti on February 16, 2010, 10:17:22 PM
4   - Locke
8   - Reyes
15 - Ford
16 - Jarrah
23 - Shephard
42 - Kwon

Maybe even Claire, too, which could throw us for a loop on the whole "infection" tip.

Well it looks like you can write that one off.  She is very much EVIL.  I can't remember if he used it before the island, but I found it interesting that Alter-Jack was driving the same truck that Real Jack drove when he got off the island.  I assume we'll find out soon enough that Alter-Jack has a different wife.  Also, seeing Dogen in the alternate timeline would seem to imply that he was brought to the island no later than the Dharma years, rather than being a Richard-type character that has been there forever.  Hurley's theory about the bones in the caves was pretty awesome.  I feel like they can introduce an infinite number of new locations on the island by simply using the "I guess we weren't looking for it" line.

And I know this is completely unrelated, but I was just thinking about how when they first showed Dharmaville on the show, it was way inside the island, basically in it's own area in the middle of the jungle.  But weren't the docks/submarine located right next to the houses?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
So is anyone else squarely on the side of the Man in Black in this upcoming rumble? The recurring theme throughout all these flashsideways is that all these people would be just fine if not for Jacob and his sneaky meddling.

Aside from all the mythology stuff, I'm really impressed with what the writers have done with Jack this season. I actually like the guy now - he realized what an asshat he was and he's sick of tolerating Jacob's bullshit. I like it - I'd be getting tired of the mysterious mumbo jumbo too. Mayhaps he'll join up with Smokey/Sawyer/Claire?

I also liked Kate getting completly dismissed by Hurley. Irrelevant indeed. And the nod to Adam & Eve was nice - this was a Lindelof/Cuse written episode so they were definitely letting us know they haven't forgotten about it.

And yeah, Thrill. Shit's gonna get real as all get out.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
So is anyone else squarely on the side of the Man in Black in this upcoming rumble? The recurring theme throughout all these flashsideways is that all these people would be just fine if not for Jacob and his sneaky meddling.

I'm not so sure.

On the one hand, I've been prepared for a "the evil guy is good" twist for a while now.

Even if EvilLocke is a Satan type, there's plenty of room to look at him the other way around as a hero to man. Like Prometheus, who stole the fire from the Gods for man, Satan in the Garden of Eden can be viewed as a liberating figure, opening men's eyes to their free will through the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On the other hand, I suspect the shiny-happy alternate timeline stuff is all a big feint.

Yeah, life seems better in the alt timeline, but it seems way too easy to last. Either all the shiny-happy stuff will at some point all go to shit or—and this is sort of my current hunch (based on nothing at all)—something will happen, or something will come to light, that will compel the Losties to somehow "sacrifice" that comfort in order to rectify the timeline split. For the good of the island/world/universe/whatever.

Don't ask me how I think this would go down, or who would be doing the "sacrificing," or even which timeline it would all go down in: I have no idea. Again: it's little more than a hunch.

Two comparisons do come to mind, though.

The first is Donnie Darko. Ignoring as much as possible Richard Kelly's ridiculous mumbo jumbo about "Living Receivers" and the "Manipulated Dead and Undead" and whatnot (http://www.stainlesssteelrat.net/ddfaq.htm) (and forgoing countless impossible "why?" questions), the "official" interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Darko#Director.27s_interpretation) of the plot is fairly simple:

An alternate universe (with an alternate timeline) is created in which all sorts of bad shit happens and whose collapse threatens to destroy the normal universe. Somehow Donnie is assigned the duty of fixing it. And, while no one else is aware of what he's accomplished (to them, the alt timeline never happened), somehow he is able to set everything right and save the universe by sacrificing himself to a jet engine falling out of the sky.

Don't ask how. Just que "Mad World." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR91Rj1ZN1M)

The second is The Last Temptation of Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_(film)), which throws this wrinkle into the story of Christ's crucifixion:

QuoteWhile on the cross, Jesus sees and talks to a young girl who appears to be an angel. She tells him that he is not the son of God, not the Messiah, but that God loves him, is pleased with him, and wants him to be happy. She brings him down off the cross and leads him away.

She takes him to be with Mary Magdalane, and the newly married couple make love. The couple has a child and lives an idyllic life. Mary unexpectedly dies, and the sobbing Jesus is told by his angel that all women are "Mary", and thus he is betrothed to Mary and Martha, sisters of Lazarus. He starts a family with them and lives his life in peace. When he encounters the apostle Paul preaching about the Messiah—that is, about Jesus—he tries to tell Paul that he is the man that Paul has been preaching about. Paul (who in this film has slain the resurrected Lazarus in his earlier life as Saul) rejects him, saying that even if Jesus hadn't died in the cross, his message was the truth, and nothing would stop him from proclaiming that.

Near the end of his life, Jesus' former disciples visit him on his deathbed with Jerusalem (representing the world) in ruins in the background. Judas comes last and calls Jesus a traitor. It is revealed that the angel who released him from the crucifixion is in fact Satan, who has been tempting him into this life of comfort as a mortal man. Jesus realizes that he must die to bring salvation to mankind. Crawling back through the burning city of Jerusalem during the Jewish Rebellion, he reaches the site of his crucifixion and begs God to let him fulfill his purpose and to "let [him] be [God's] son."

Jesus is instantly back on the cross—the "fantasy" of escaping death on the cross, of being married, of having a family, and of the disaster that would have encompassed mankind was not real. It is the dream of what would have happened had Jesus truly left the cross behind.

Jesus cries out as he dies, "It is accomplished! It is accomplished."

This is not to say that the alternate Lost timeline is just a "dream." It's about the choice between alternate possibilities and Scorsese's Christ sacrificing an "idyllic life" to fulfill his destiny/God's will.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:51:30 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
Aside from all the mythology stuff, I'm really impressed with what the writers have done with Jack this season. I actually like the guy now...

I was thinking the same exact thing tonight. I suddenly liked Jack.

On another note... Lighthouse screencaps:

http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2010/02/images-from-6x05-the-lighthous.php

108 appears to be "Wallace" (and is crossed out):

http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_8.jpg
http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_9.jpg

(109 reads "Friendly.")

51 is "Austen" and doesn't look like it's crossed out:

http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_7.jpg
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 24, 2010, 06:27:33 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
This is not to say that the alternate Lost timeline is just a "dream." It's about the choice between alternate possibilities and Scorsese's Christ sacrificing an "idyllic life" to fulfill his destiny/God's will.

I feel like it's just going to be a matter of time before the Alternate Losties "remember" everything that happened in the normal timeline.  The fact that Alter-Jack didn't really remember when his appendix was taken out would have me think that maybe instead of it just being a "what if"-type storyline for all these characters, that maybe both timelines are happening simultaneously and the Alternate ones just haven't figured it out yet.  I wouldn't be surprised if everyone eventually has some revelation about the island and everything that happened.

Also, I agree, Jack is way better this season.  And I don't think they could have cast a more believable kid to play his son.  Maybe he's Matthew Fox's bastard child with Neve Campbell from the Party of Five days.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 24, 2010, 07:11:51 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
words

Goddammit, Tank. Now you have me wondering things about God-Satan undertones in this show.. Now, I wish I knew my bible/christian history like you (wtf is dat French, commie?) but the perception that Jacob is God (loosely) and that people have been blindly following him seems to be right. I wonder if the end result of this will be a story to show how the perceived evil (Satan) is actually not so bad compared to the perceived good (God). The evil is actually the “good” side. Summation: TEAM MIB bitches!

(And if the 3rd and 4th sentences didn’t quite make sense, just read the signature. I’m not a wordsmith.)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on February 24, 2010, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:51:30 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
Aside from all the mythology stuff, I'm really impressed with what the writers have done with Jack this season. I actually like the guy now...

I was thinking the same exact thing tonight. I suddenly liked Jack.

On another note... Lighthouse screencaps:

http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2010/02/images-from-6x05-the-lighthous.php

108 appears to be "Wallace" (and is crossed out):

http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_8.jpg
http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_9.jpg

(109 reads "Friendly.")

51 is "Austen" and doesn't look like it's crossed out:

http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_7.jpg

Possibly dumb thought: is Jacob limited to 360 candidates (assuming 360 degrees on the wheel/compass thingy in the lighthouse)? Is it possible that the Oceanic crew are his last hope to find a replacement?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on February 24, 2010, 09:20:57 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 24, 2010, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:51:30 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
Aside from all the mythology stuff, I'm really impressed with what the writers have done with Jack this season. I actually like the guy now...

I was thinking the same exact thing tonight. I suddenly liked Jack.

On another note... Lighthouse screencaps:

http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2010/02/images-from-6x05-the-lighthous.php

108 appears to be "Wallace" (and is crossed out):

http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_8.jpg
http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_9.jpg

(109 reads "Friendly.")

51 is "Austen" and doesn't look like it's crossed out:

http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_7.jpg

Possibly dumb thought: is Jacob limited to 360 candidates (assuming 360 degrees on the wheel/compass thingy in the lighthouse)? Is it possible that the Oceanic crew are his last hope to find a replacement?

I thought the time for questions was over?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 24, 2010, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on February 24, 2010, 09:20:57 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 24, 2010, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:51:30 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
Aside from all the mythology stuff, I'm really impressed with what the writers have done with Jack this season. I actually like the guy now...

I was thinking the same exact thing tonight. I suddenly liked Jack.

On another note... Lighthouse screencaps:

http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2010/02/images-from-6x05-the-lighthous.php

108 appears to be "Wallace" (and is crossed out):

http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_8.jpg
http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_9.jpg

(109 reads "Friendly.")

51 is "Austen" and doesn't look like it's crossed out:

http://lost.cubit.net/images/index/investigations/6x04_lighthouse_names_7.jpg

Possibly dumb thought: is Jacob limited to 360 candidates (assuming 360 degrees on the wheel/compass thingy in the lighthouse)? Is it possible that the Oceanic crew are his last hope to find a replacement?

I thought the time for questions was over?

Why?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Eli on February 24, 2010, 09:33:39 AM
This thread is way nerdier than anything in Mom's Basement.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: Eli on February 24, 2010, 09:33:39 AM
This thread is way nerdier than anything in Mom's Basement.

You're a year behind...

Quote from: IrishYeti on February 19, 2009, 12:51:31 PM
I'm not sure what's worse: overanalyzing a TV show that you have no control over or talking about a game that hasn't come out yet?

I'll defer to TDubbs and Kermit to decide.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on February 24, 2010, 10:56:48 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: Eli on February 24, 2010, 09:33:39 AM
This thread is way nerdier than anything in Mom's Basement.

You're a year behind...

Quote from: IrishYeti on February 19, 2009, 12:51:31 PM
I'm not sure what's worse: overanalyzing a TV show that you have no control over or talking about a game that hasn't come out yet?

I'll defer to TDubbs and Kermit to decide.

And look where I am now, Eli.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on February 24, 2010, 04:27:52 PM
Quote from: R-V on February 24, 2010, 09:20:23 AM
Possibly dumb thought: is Jacob limited to 360 candidates (assuming 360 degrees on the wheel/compass thingy in the lighthouse)? Is it possible that the Oceanic crew are his last hope to find a replacement?

This would only be a hop, skip, and a jump from the harebrained field of eschatological (http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks4.htm) calendrics (http://www.360calendar.com), so I'd say it's not an unwarranted guess.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 25, 2010, 09:39:14 PM
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kysea
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hansen
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on February 25, 2010, 09:57:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 25, 2010, 09:39:14 PM
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kysea
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hansen

Kysea could be Ilana's last name.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on February 26, 2010, 05:49:57 AM
Quote from: Weebs on February 25, 2010, 09:57:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 25, 2010, 09:39:14 PM
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kysea
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hansen

Kysea could be Ilana's last name.

Or not.  It could really go either way.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Canadouche on February 26, 2010, 04:19:20 PM
I'm sure it's mentioned in the Dead Pool, but this thread seems incredibly appropriate...

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/02/25/alg_actor_andrew-koenig.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 26, 2010, 11:52:11 PM
Read something interesting: mother of Jack's child could be the woman he saved with spinal surgery, the Italian broad. Remember her?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on February 27, 2010, 12:06:02 AM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 26, 2010, 11:52:11 PM
Read something interesting: mother of Jack's child could be the woman he saved with spinal surgery, the Italian broad. Remember her?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_v94HclVn6hA/SCsUhr18DeI/AAAAAAAACs4/MXR7OxRWNA0/s400/Killface%2B042.jpg)

He operated on the husband father, n'est-ce pas?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: ChuckD on February 27, 2010, 12:32:40 AM
Quote from: Wheezer on February 27, 2010, 12:06:02 AM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 26, 2010, 11:52:11 PM
Read something interesting: mother of Jack's child could be the woman he saved with spinal surgery, the Italian broad. Remember her?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_v94HclVn6hA/SCsUhr18DeI/AAAAAAAACs4/MXR7OxRWNA0/s400/Killface%2B042.jpg)

He operated on the husband father, n'est-ce pas?

(http://imgur.com/UN8PL.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on February 27, 2010, 01:00:12 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on February 27, 2010, 12:32:40 AM
Quote from: Wheezer on February 27, 2010, 12:06:02 AM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 26, 2010, 11:52:11 PM
Read something interesting: mother of Jack's child could be the woman he saved with spinal surgery, the Italian broad. Remember her?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_v94HclVn6hA/SCsUhr18DeI/AAAAAAAACs4/MXR7OxRWNA0/s400/Killface%2B042.jpg)

He operated on the husband father, n'est-ce pas?

(http://imgur.com/UN8PL.jpg)

(http://www.scaredstiffreviews.com/images/news/trilogy%20of%20terror_endingpic.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on February 27, 2010, 09:16:19 AM
Quote from: Wheezer on February 27, 2010, 12:06:02 AM
Quote from: Slack-E on February 26, 2010, 11:52:11 PM
Read something interesting: mother of Jack's child could be the woman he saved with spinal surgery, the Italian broad. Remember her?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_v94HclVn6hA/SCsUhr18DeI/AAAAAAAACs4/MXR7OxRWNA0/s400/Killface%2B042.jpg)

He operated on the husband father, n'est-ce pas?

I'll shut up now.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 02, 2010, 12:15:06 PM
Just wait.  It's probably going to be pretty awesome tonight.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 02, 2010, 12:15:06 PM
Just wait.

I can't.

On account of how awesome it's gonna be.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on March 02, 2010, 05:12:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 02, 2010, 12:15:06 PM
Just wait.

I can't.

On account of how awesome it's gonna be.

I DON'T WANNA WAIT ANYMORE!!!!!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
So is anyone else squarely on the side of the Man in Black in this upcoming rumble? The recurring theme throughout all these flashsideways is that all these people would be just fine if not for Jacob and his sneaky meddling.

I'm not so sure.

On the one hand, I've been prepared for a "the evil guy is good" twist for a while now.

Even if EvilLocke is a Satan type, there's plenty of room to look at him the other way around as a hero to man. Like Prometheus, who stole the fire from the Gods for man, Satan in the Garden of Eden can be viewed as a liberating figure, opening men's eyes to their free will through the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On the other hand, I suspect the shiny-happy alternate timeline stuff is all a big feint.

Yeah, life seems better in the alt timeline, but it seems way too easy to last. Either all the shiny-happy stuff will at some point all go to shit or—and this is sort of my current hunch (based on nothing at all)—something will happen, or something will come to light, that will compel the Losties to somehow "sacrifice" that comfort in order to rectify the timeline split. For the good of the island/world/universe/whatever.

On the other hand, another thought has occurred to me when thinking about the alternate timeline stuff we'll be seeing going forward (looks like Sayid and Nadia tonight)...

It hasn't yet been shown that the bomb blast is actually what led to the alternate timeline. In fact, it seems like there are already a few differences that are kind of tricky to account for by a 1977 timeline fork (e.g., Alternate Ben, given that young Ben was already on the island and tight with the Others by that point).

So, I think (for starters) that it's entirely possible that the alternate timeline is not Jughead's doing. At least not directly.

What caused it, then?

Go back to Jacob and EvilLocke's discussion as they watched the Black Rock approach...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_&_2_transcript

QuoteMAN IN BLACK: ...They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

The thought that occurs to me is this: What if the current island timeline (the "normal" timeline) ultimately leads to this "end" Jacob is talking about (whatever that might be)?

And what if this (for some reason) means history itself is "reset" and starts again, this time without the island and its mojo (the island and Jacob no longer being needed, because... uh, whatever it is that "progress" was being made on... has finally been "accomplished")?

The Bacon Loop loops over again (which would be what we're seeing in the flash-sideways), the world somehow the better for it this time around.

What about that?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Gilgamesh on March 02, 2010, 07:29:33 PM
I don't even watch this show, but the topics discussed in this thread are fascinating, I tells ya.

I know I've asked this question before, but is this show any good or are all of you watching just to get to the end of it, ala the Elaine Benes Theory of Bad Sub Sandwiches?

Because if it's the former, I might have to que up the first season on Netflix.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 02, 2010, 07:34:39 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 02, 2010, 07:29:33 PM
I don't even watch this show, but the topics discussed in this thread are fascinating, I tells ya.

I know I've asked this question before, but is this show any good or are all of you watching just to get to the end of it, ala the Elaine Benes Theory of Bad Sub Sandwiches?

Because if it's the former, I might have to que up the first season on Netflix.

Que it up. It's amazing.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 02, 2010, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 02, 2010, 07:29:33 PM
I don't even watch this show, but the topics discussed in this thread are fascinating, I tells ya.

I know I've asked this question before, but is this show any good or are all of you watching just to get to the end of it, ala the Elaine Benes Theory of Bad Sub Sandwiches?

Because if it's the former, I might have to que up the first season on Netflix.

I enjoy the piss out of it. All 5 seasons are on instant queue with Netflix so you can watch on your PS3
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
Fucking. Bad. Ass.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 02, 2010, 09:53:16 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
Fucking. Bad. Ass.

The only way Sayid could've been a badder dude in that episode would've been if he'd broken Keamy's neck with a leg lock.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on March 02, 2010, 09:56:06 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 02, 2010, 09:53:16 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
Fucking. Bad. Ass.

The only way Sayid could've been a badder dude in that episode would've been if he'd broken Keamy's neck with a leg lock.

Then his crotch would've been all up in the dude's face.  Nuh uh, guy.  No way.  It was just right.



Claire's creepy now. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 10:12:18 PM
Thoughts...

1) In Dogen's conversation with Sayid, he suggested the deals Jacob and EvilLocke offered each of them, respectively, were "similar." They weren't really the same, though. EvilLocke tempted Sayid to his side by telling he could have the thing he most wants. Jacob's deal with Dogen was very different: yes, his son would live (Dogen's sin forgiven?), but Dogen would never be able to see him again. It's selfish love on the one hand versus a selfless sacrifice on the other.

2) Maybe the mirror opposite of his on-island choice, alt timeline Sayid pushing Nadia to Omar because he 'doesn't deserve her' himself would seem to fall on the selfless side.

3) Has Omar ever killed his own chicken in his entire life?

4) EvilLocke telling GrossClaire that he 'always does what he says' (or whatever) sure as hell sounds like the devil talking to someone who failed to read the fine print.

5) Why doesn't Kate just tell GrossClaire that Aaron is with Claire's mom? WHY?

6) There seemed to be explicit confirmation tonight that not being able to kill Jacob was the main thing preventing EvilLocke from "going home." Could it have been Jacob's job to simply keep EvilLocke "trapped" there?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=NIV

Quote1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

7) What a badass fucking episode. The return of Badass Sayid x 2. Keamy. Badass Korean gangster Jin (guess he had that cash confiscated at customs after all). 2 random seconds worth of Jack.

8) Badass.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on March 02, 2010, 10:15:44 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on March 02, 2010, 07:29:33 PM
I know I've asked this question before, but is this show any good or are all of you watching just to get to the end of it, ala the Elaine Benes Theory of Bad Sub Sandwiches?

It's good.  24 is a Bad Sub.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on March 03, 2010, 12:44:54 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 10:12:18 PM
8) Badass.

They've certainly tweaked the CGI to make the Smoke Monster really look like a flying turd, I'll give it that.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 03, 2010, 05:09:00 AM
I FUCKING TOLD YOU GUYS!

Hole.  E.  Shit.  Sayid.  What a crazy, badass sand morgan.  It was pretty creepy seeing him and Claire walk out with those looks on their faces to Flocke after he killed the temple people.  I guess he did whatever recruiting he did. 
Questions: 
1.  Why was finding Jack and Hugo so important?  Just b/c they're on that list?
2.  How did Iliana know about that secret little room, and what was that secret little room?
3.  Poor Dogan.  I liked him.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 03, 2010, 06:37:33 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 10:12:18 PM
Thoughts...

1) In Dogen's conversation with Sayid, he suggested the deals Jacob and EvilLocke offered each of them, respectively, were "similar." They weren't really the same, though. EvilLocke tempted Sayid to his side by telling he could have the thing he most wants. Jacob's deal with Dogen was very different: yes, his son would live (Dogen's sin forgiven?), but Dogen would never be able to see him again. It's selfish love on the one hand versus a selfless sacrifice on the other.

I don't know if we can assume it's Sosiano-esque selfishness. My take on the conversation was that Sayid simply wanted Nadia to not be dead, not necessarily that he felt he should be able to see/bone her again.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on March 03, 2010, 07:14:58 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 03, 2010, 05:09:00 AM
I FUCKING TOLD YOU GUYS!

Hole.  E.  Shit.  Sayid.  What a crazy, badass sand morgan.  It was pretty creepy seeing him and Claire walk out with those looks on their faces to Flocke after he killed the temple people.  I guess he did whatever recruiting he did. 
Questions: 
1.  Why was finding Jack and Hugo so important?  Just b/c they're on that list?
2.  How did Iliana know about that secret little room, and what was that secret little room?
3.  Poor Dogan.  I liked him.

That was the secret exit out of the temple that Jacob told Hurley about in the Lighthouse episode so he and Jack could leave.  I'm assuming she knows because she's one of the Jacob followers.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 03, 2010, 08:34:13 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 03, 2010, 06:37:33 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 10:12:18 PM
Thoughts...

1) In Dogen's conversation with Sayid, he suggested the deals Jacob and EvilLocke offered each of them, respectively, were "similar." They weren't really the same, though. EvilLocke tempted Sayid to his side by telling he could have the thing he most wants. Jacob's deal with Dogen was very different: yes, his son would live (Dogen's sin forgiven?), but Dogen would never be able to see him again. It's selfish love on the one hand versus a selfless sacrifice on the other.

I don't know if we can assume it's Sosiano-esque selfishness. My take on the conversation was that Sayid simply wanted Nadia to not be dead, not necessarily that he felt he should be able to see/bone her again.

Sayid said the only thing he wants in the whole world died in his arms and lamented that he'll never get to see her again. EvilLocke asked, "What if you could?" That's what secured Badass Sayid's comeback.

Dogen's deal, on the other hand, was: your son will live, but you'll have to move to the island to serve Jacob and will never see him again.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 03, 2010, 05:09:00 AM
1.  Why was finding Jack and Hugo so important?  Just b/c they're on that list?

By which you mean "Why was Jacob so concerned about getting Jack and Hurley, in particular, out of the temple?"

IIRC, Jack and Hurley were the only potential candidates left in the temple at that moment besides Sayid (and the DARKNESS had already gotten to him). Jin, Sun, Sawyer and Kate were already safely outside of it (at least at that point).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 03, 2010, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
So is anyone else squarely on the side of the Man in Black in this upcoming rumble? The recurring theme throughout all these flashsideways is that all these people would be just fine if not for Jacob and his sneaky meddling.

I'm not so sure.

On the one hand, I've been prepared for a "the evil guy is good" twist for a while now.

Even if EvilLocke is a Satan type, there's plenty of room to look at him the other way around as a hero to man. Like Prometheus, who stole the fire from the Gods for man, Satan in the Garden of Eden can be viewed as a liberating figure, opening men's eyes to their free will through the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On the other hand, I suspect the shiny-happy alternate timeline stuff is all a big feint.

Yeah, life seems better in the alt timeline, but it seems way too easy to last. Either all the shiny-happy stuff will at some point all go to shit or—and this is sort of my current hunch (based on nothing at all)—something will happen, or something will come to light, that will compel the Losties to somehow "sacrifice" that comfort in order to rectify the timeline split. For the good of the island/world/universe/whatever.

On the other hand, another thought has occurred to me when thinking about the alternate timeline stuff we'll be seeing going forward (looks like Sayid and Nadia tonight)...

It hasn't yet been shown that the bomb blast is actually what led to the alternate timeline. In fact, it seems like there are already a few differences that are kind of tricky to account for by a 1977 timeline fork (e.g., Alternate Ben, given that young Ben was already on the island and tight with the Others by that point).

So, I think (for starters) that it's entirely possible that the alternate timeline is not Jughead's doing. At least not directly.

What caused it, then?

Go back to Jacob and EvilLocke's discussion as they watched the Black Rock approach...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_&_2_transcript

QuoteMAN IN BLACK: ...They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

The thought that occurs to me is this: What if the current island timeline (the "normal" timeline) ultimately leads to this "end" Jacob is talking about (whatever that might be)?

And what if this (for some reason) means history itself is "reset" and starts again, this time without the island and its mojo (the island and Jacob no longer being needed, because... uh, whatever it is that "progress" was being made on... has finally been "accomplished")?

The Bacon Loop loops over again (which would be what we're seeing in the flash-sideways), the world somehow the better for it this time around.

What about that?

Just a thought on the alternate timeline stuff.

In the previous episodes we've seen Jack turn out to be a pretty good dude, Kate go back to pick-up Claire and become a pretty good person...but Sayid, for all his efforts, still ended up violent (albeit awesome).  So, for some of these people, is their future inevitable? Sayid turns evil on the island and subsequently (or concurrently) remains evil/violent in the alt timeline as well...like it was his destiny, never was going to avoid it despite best efforts and intentions.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 03, 2010, 11:02:14 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 03, 2010, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
So is anyone else squarely on the side of the Man in Black in this upcoming rumble? The recurring theme throughout all these flashsideways is that all these people would be just fine if not for Jacob and his sneaky meddling.

I'm not so sure.

On the one hand, I've been prepared for a "the evil guy is good" twist for a while now.

Even if EvilLocke is a Satan type, there's plenty of room to look at him the other way around as a hero to man. Like Prometheus, who stole the fire from the Gods for man, Satan in the Garden of Eden can be viewed as a liberating figure, opening men's eyes to their free will through the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On the other hand, I suspect the shiny-happy alternate timeline stuff is all a big feint.

Yeah, life seems better in the alt timeline, but it seems way too easy to last. Either all the shiny-happy stuff will at some point all go to shit or—and this is sort of my current hunch (based on nothing at all)—something will happen, or something will come to light, that will compel the Losties to somehow "sacrifice" that comfort in order to rectify the timeline split. For the good of the island/world/universe/whatever.

On the other hand, another thought has occurred to me when thinking about the alternate timeline stuff we'll be seeing going forward (looks like Sayid and Nadia tonight)...

It hasn't yet been shown that the bomb blast is actually what led to the alternate timeline. In fact, it seems like there are already a few differences that are kind of tricky to account for by a 1977 timeline fork (e.g., Alternate Ben, given that young Ben was already on the island and tight with the Others by that point).

So, I think (for starters) that it's entirely possible that the alternate timeline is not Jughead's doing. At least not directly.

What caused it, then?

Go back to Jacob and EvilLocke's discussion as they watched the Black Rock approach...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_&_2_transcript

QuoteMAN IN BLACK: ...They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

The thought that occurs to me is this: What if the current island timeline (the "normal" timeline) ultimately leads to this "end" Jacob is talking about (whatever that might be)?

And what if this (for some reason) means history itself is "reset" and starts again, this time without the island and its mojo (the island and Jacob no longer being needed, because... uh, whatever it is that "progress" was being made on... has finally been "accomplished")?

The Bacon Loop loops over again (which would be what we're seeing in the flash-sideways), the world somehow the better for it this time around.

What about that?

Just a thought on the alternate timeline stuff.

In the previous episodes we've seen Jack turn out to be a pretty good dude, Kate go back to pick-up Claire and become a pretty good person...but Sayid, for all his efforts, still ended up violent (albeit awesome).  So, for some of these people, is their future inevitable? Sayid turns evil on the island and subsequently (or concurrently) remains evil/violent in the alt timeline as well...like it was his destiny, never was going to avoid it despite best efforts and intentions.

OR: we can assume that Jack, Kate and Hurley make Dogen-esque selfless deals with Jacob in the island endgame. So they're rewarded with a better life in the final loop.

Sayid (and possibly Jin) make a selfish deal with the Man in Black, but it turns out he was selling a bunch of horseplop, and they get hosed and end up with the same lousy lives in the final loop.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 03, 2010, 11:09:22 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 03, 2010, 11:02:14 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 03, 2010, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
So is anyone else squarely on the side of the Man in Black in this upcoming rumble? The recurring theme throughout all these flashsideways is that all these people would be just fine if not for Jacob and his sneaky meddling.

I'm not so sure.

On the one hand, I've been prepared for a "the evil guy is good" twist for a while now.

Even if EvilLocke is a Satan type, there's plenty of room to look at him the other way around as a hero to man. Like Prometheus, who stole the fire from the Gods for man, Satan in the Garden of Eden can be viewed as a liberating figure, opening men's eyes to their free will through the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On the other hand, I suspect the shiny-happy alternate timeline stuff is all a big feint.

Yeah, life seems better in the alt timeline, but it seems way too easy to last. Either all the shiny-happy stuff will at some point all go to shit or—and this is sort of my current hunch (based on nothing at all)—something will happen, or something will come to light, that will compel the Losties to somehow "sacrifice" that comfort in order to rectify the timeline split. For the good of the island/world/universe/whatever.

On the other hand, another thought has occurred to me when thinking about the alternate timeline stuff we'll be seeing going forward (looks like Sayid and Nadia tonight)...

It hasn't yet been shown that the bomb blast is actually what led to the alternate timeline. In fact, it seems like there are already a few differences that are kind of tricky to account for by a 1977 timeline fork (e.g., Alternate Ben, given that young Ben was already on the island and tight with the Others by that point).

So, I think (for starters) that it's entirely possible that the alternate timeline is not Jughead's doing. At least not directly.

What caused it, then?

Go back to Jacob and EvilLocke's discussion as they watched the Black Rock approach...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_&_2_transcript

QuoteMAN IN BLACK: ...They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

The thought that occurs to me is this: What if the current island timeline (the "normal" timeline) ultimately leads to this "end" Jacob is talking about (whatever that might be)?

And what if this (for some reason) means history itself is "reset" and starts again, this time without the island and its mojo (the island and Jacob no longer being needed, because... uh, whatever it is that "progress" was being made on... has finally been "accomplished")?

The Bacon Loop loops over again (which would be what we're seeing in the flash-sideways), the world somehow the better for it this time around.

What about that?

Just a thought on the alternate timeline stuff.

In the previous episodes we've seen Jack turn out to be a pretty good dude, Kate go back to pick-up Claire and become a pretty good person...but Sayid, for all his efforts, still ended up violent (albeit awesome).  So, for some of these people, is their future inevitable? Sayid turns evil on the island and subsequently (or concurrently) remains evil/violent in the alt timeline as well...like it was his destiny, never was going to avoid it despite best efforts and intentions.

OR: we can assume that Jack, Kate and Hurley make Dogen-esque selfless deals with Jacob in the island endgame. So they're rewarded with a better life in the final loop.

Sayid (and possibly Jin) make a selfish deal with the Man in Black, but it turns out he was selling a bunch of horseplop, and they get hosed and end up with the same lousy lives in the final loop.

Oh, I like that theory.
But how does it account for Locke?  Had kind of an up-and-down ride in the alt timeline.
Or Ben? He seems to be not that thrilled about his job.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 03, 2010, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 03, 2010, 11:09:22 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 03, 2010, 11:02:14 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 03, 2010, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 02, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
So is anyone else squarely on the side of the Man in Black in this upcoming rumble? The recurring theme throughout all these flashsideways is that all these people would be just fine if not for Jacob and his sneaky meddling.

I'm not so sure.

On the one hand, I've been prepared for a "the evil guy is good" twist for a while now.

Even if EvilLocke is a Satan type, there's plenty of room to look at him the other way around as a hero to man. Like Prometheus, who stole the fire from the Gods for man, Satan in the Garden of Eden can be viewed as a liberating figure, opening men's eyes to their free will through the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

On the other hand, I suspect the shiny-happy alternate timeline stuff is all a big feint.

Yeah, life seems better in the alt timeline, but it seems way too easy to last. Either all the shiny-happy stuff will at some point all go to shit or—and this is sort of my current hunch (based on nothing at all)—something will happen, or something will come to light, that will compel the Losties to somehow "sacrifice" that comfort in order to rectify the timeline split. For the good of the island/world/universe/whatever.

On the other hand, another thought has occurred to me when thinking about the alternate timeline stuff we'll be seeing going forward (looks like Sayid and Nadia tonight)...

It hasn't yet been shown that the bomb blast is actually what led to the alternate timeline. In fact, it seems like there are already a few differences that are kind of tricky to account for by a 1977 timeline fork (e.g., Alternate Ben, given that young Ben was already on the island and tight with the Others by that point).

So, I think (for starters) that it's entirely possible that the alternate timeline is not Jughead's doing. At least not directly.

What caused it, then?

Go back to Jacob and EvilLocke's discussion as they watched the Black Rock approach...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_&_2_transcript

QuoteMAN IN BLACK: ...They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

The thought that occurs to me is this: What if the current island timeline (the "normal" timeline) ultimately leads to this "end" Jacob is talking about (whatever that might be)?

And what if this (for some reason) means history itself is "reset" and starts again, this time without the island and its mojo (the island and Jacob no longer being needed, because... uh, whatever it is that "progress" was being made on... has finally been "accomplished")?

The Bacon Loop loops over again (which would be what we're seeing in the flash-sideways), the world somehow the better for it this time around.

What about that?

Just a thought on the alternate timeline stuff.

In the previous episodes we've seen Jack turn out to be a pretty good dude, Kate go back to pick-up Claire and become a pretty good person...but Sayid, for all his efforts, still ended up violent (albeit awesome).  So, for some of these people, is their future inevitable? Sayid turns evil on the island and subsequently (or concurrently) remains evil/violent in the alt timeline as well...like it was his destiny, never was going to avoid it despite best efforts and intentions.

OR: we can assume that Jack, Kate and Hurley make Dogen-esque selfless deals with Jacob in the island endgame. So they're rewarded with a better life in the final loop.

Sayid (and possibly Jin) make a selfish deal with the Man in Black, but it turns out he was selling a bunch of horseplop, and they get hosed and end up with the same lousy lives in the final loop.

Oh, I like that theory.
But how does it account for Locke?  Had kind of an up-and-down ride in the alt timeline.
Or Ben? He seems to be not that thrilled about his job.

I think it's safe to say that AltLocke had it way better than original Locke - he's going to marry Peggy, and (it seems) is on good terms with his dad. But he was dead before making any deals with Jacob/Smokey so this theory doesn't apply to him.

As for Ben, I think it's a bit premature to judge how his alt-life is going until we hear him do more than talk about a pot of coffee.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 03, 2010, 01:39:26 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 03, 2010, 11:17:40 AM
I think it's safe to say that AltLocke had it way better than original Locke - he's going to marry Peggy, and (it seems) is on good terms with his dad. But he was dead before making any deals with Jacob/Smokey so this theory doesn't apply to him.

Unless dead isn't dead.

Quote from: R-V on March 03, 2010, 11:17:40 AM
As for Ben, I think it's a bit premature to judge how his alt-life is going until we hear him do more than talk about a pot of coffee.

Ben as the uppity workplace asshole was perfect.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 10:14:25 AM
Not exactly a new flash, but "Creators of 'Lost' say they won't tie up all those loose ends" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030103497.html?hpid=news-col-blog)

Not that I expected everything neatly wrapped up with a bow on it...but this line is bullshit.

Quote
"There's a lot of little questions that unfortunately we just don't have time to answer in the amount of time that we have left," co-creator Cuse told the uber-fans.

Didn't you guys set the timeline?

I think the biggest fear this whole time was that they didn't exactly plan this out that well, seems to be some validity there.

It's still gonna be awesome, but I think it's safe to say Chuck's not gonna get his answers.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 05, 2010, 11:20:58 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 10:14:25 AM
Not exactly a new flash, but "Creators of 'Lost' say they won't tie up all those loose ends" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030103497.html?hpid=news-col-blog)

Not that I expected everything neatly wrapped up with a bow on it...but this line is bullshit.

Quote
"There's a lot of little questions that unfortunately we just don't have time to answer in the amount of time that we have left," co-creator Cuse told the uber-fans.

Didn't you guys set the timeline?

I think the biggest fear this whole time was that they didn't exactly plan this out that well, seems to be some validity there.

It's still gonna be awesome, but I think it's safe to say Chuck's not gonna get his answers.

I suspect they're more talking about some of the the non-central story lines that have cropped up along the way.

I think the writers at least had the big picture planned out from the start. They knew where they were starting and where they were ending, and had at least a basic sense of the general trajectory between the two.

It's in filling in 6 seasons worth of details and throwaway characters in between the start and the end where the writers wound up creating dead ends and tangents that may never be resolved.

I'd guess all we're missing is stuff that would be fodder for "The New Island Adventures of Rose and Bernard."

That said, I recently got to thinking... You know those ads they run for V during episodes of Lost where the lady alien talks directly to you, the Lost viewer? She says something about this being the show's "final televised season." Are they preparing to take Lost to the big screen after blue-balling us on some of these loose ends they don't have time to tie up?

"Nikki and Paulo in IMAX 3-D," anyone?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 05, 2010, 11:34:29 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 05, 2010, 11:20:58 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 10:14:25 AM
Not exactly a new flash, but "Creators of 'Lost' say they won't tie up all those loose ends" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030103497.html?hpid=news-col-blog)

Not that I expected everything neatly wrapped up with a bow on it...but this line is bullshit.

Quote
"There's a lot of little questions that unfortunately we just don't have time to answer in the amount of time that we have left," co-creator Cuse told the uber-fans.

Didn't you guys set the timeline?

I think the biggest fear this whole time was that they didn't exactly plan this out that well, seems to be some validity there.

It's still gonna be awesome, but I think it's safe to say Chuck's not gonna get his answers.

I suspect they're more talking about some of the the non-central story lines that have cropped up along the way.

I think the writers at least had the big picture planned out from the start. They knew where they were starting and where they were ending, and had at least a basic sense of the general trajectory between the two.

It's in filling in 6 seasons worth of details and throwaway characters in between the start and the end where the writers wound up creating dead ends and tangents that may never be resolved.

I'd guess all we're missing is stuff that would be fodder for "The New Island Adventures of Rose and Bernard."

That said, I recently got to thinking... You know those ads they run for V during episodes of Lost where the lady alien talks directly to you, the Lost viewer? She says something about this being the show's "final televised season." Are they preparing to take Lost to the big screen after blue-balling us on some of these loose ends they don't have time to tie up?

"Nikki and Paulo in IMAX 3-D," anyone?

Nikki was a fuckable broad, sans penis, of course
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 05, 2010, 11:20:58 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 10:14:25 AM
Not exactly a new flash, but "Creators of 'Lost' say they won't tie up all those loose ends" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030103497.html?hpid=news-col-blog)

Not that I expected everything neatly wrapped up with a bow on it...but this line is bullshit.

Quote
"There's a lot of little questions that unfortunately we just don't have time to answer in the amount of time that we have left," co-creator Cuse told the uber-fans.

Didn't you guys set the timeline?

I think the biggest fear this whole time was that they didn't exactly plan this out that well, seems to be some validity there.

It's still gonna be awesome, but I think it's safe to say Chuck's not gonna get his answers.

I suspect they're more talking about some of the the non-central story lines that have cropped up along the way.

I think the writers at least had the big picture planned out from the start. They knew where they were starting and where they were ending, and had at least a basic sense of the general trajectory between the two.

It's in filling in 6 seasons worth of details and throwaway characters in between the start and the end where the writers wound up creating dead ends and tangents that may never be resolved.

I'd guess all we're missing is stuff that would be fodder for "The New Island Adventures of Rose and Bernard."

That said, I recently got to thinking... You know those ads they run for V during episodes of Lost where the lady alien talks directly to you, the Lost viewer? She says something about this being the show's "final televised season." Are they preparing to take Lost to the big screen after blue-balling us on some of these loose ends they don't have time to tie up?

"Nikki and Paulo in IMAX 3-D," anyone?

What Tank said. Also the DAMNING SENTENCE that you quote says that there are LITTLE questions they aren't going to answer. So we're not going to find out how Libby ended up in the looney bin. Big whoop.

I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: CT III on March 05, 2010, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

What are those people going to do?  Stop watching?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

Thanks for ruining Battlestar for me. Lindelof has already addressed (http://io9.com/5478314/the-real-problem-with-midichlorians) the "what is the island" question, and I agree with him. It's a cool place where crazy shit happens. What more do you need to know?

QuoteThere are certain questions about the show that I'm very befuddled by like, 'What is the Island?' or 'What do the numbers mean?' We're going to be explaining a little more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers, but what do you mean by 'What do the numbers mean?' What is a potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very careful about entering into Midi-Chlorian territory. I grew up on Star Wars; I've seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times; I can recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to me or did it occur to me to say, 'What is the Force, exactly? Can you explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?' I understand, 'When are we going to find out about Libby?' That's a very finite question. 'Who is Jacob?' OK, yes, we've been talking to this guy named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but 'What is the Island?' That starts to get into 'What is the Force?' It is a place. I can't explain to you why it moves through space-time-it just does. You have to accept the fact that it does.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 05, 2010, 12:45:14 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

From Kristen at E Online:

"Episode 6x09 Ab Aeterno:
- We will learn what the island is from Jacob. Last week she said that it is a 4-letter word with out an A or E but this week she says it has an O.
- We learn why Richard does not age"
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

Thanks for ruining Battlestar for me. Lindelof has already addressed (http://io9.com/5478314/the-real-problem-with-midichlorians) the "what is the island" question, and I agree with him. It's a cool place where crazy shit happens. What more do you need to know?

QuoteThere are certain questions about the show that I'm very befuddled by like, 'What is the Island?' or 'What do the numbers mean?' We're going to be explaining a little more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers, but what do you mean by 'What do the numbers mean?' What is a potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very careful about entering into Midi-Chlorian territory. I grew up on Star Wars; I've seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times; I can recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to me or did it occur to me to say, 'What is the Force, exactly? Can you explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?' I understand, 'When are we going to find out about Libby?' That's a very finite question. 'Who is Jacob?' OK, yes, we've been talking to this guy named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but 'What is the Island?' That starts to get into 'What is the Force?' It is a place. I can't explain to you why it moves through space-time-it just does. You have to accept the fact that it does.

Certainly there are things that we will have to just accept like "the island is not like all other places on Earth", and it's totally fair that 5 years in we can just accept things like "time travels happens" without needing an explanation why.  

But to Chuck's point (seriously? I hate myself) there are absolutely certain things that need to be answered because it gets to the very heart of why we've been so enthralled in watching.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:58:15 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

Thanks for ruining Battlestar for me. Lindelof has already addressed (http://io9.com/5478314/the-real-problem-with-midichlorians) the "what is the island" question, and I agree with him. It's a cool place where crazy shit happens. What more do you need to know?

QuoteThere are certain questions about the show that I'm very befuddled by like, 'What is the Island?' or 'What do the numbers mean?' We're going to be explaining a little more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers, but what do you mean by 'What do the numbers mean?' What is a potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very careful about entering into Midi-Chlorian territory. I grew up on Star Wars; I've seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times; I can recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to me or did it occur to me to say, 'What is the Force, exactly? Can you explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?' I understand, 'When are we going to find out about Libby?' That's a very finite question. 'Who is Jacob?' OK, yes, we've been talking to this guy named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but 'What is the Island?' That starts to get into 'What is the Force?' It is a place. I can't explain to you why it moves through space-time-it just does. You have to accept the fact that it does.

Certainly there are things that we will have to just accept like "the island is not like all other places on Earth", and it's totally fair that 5 years in we can just accept things like "time travels happens" without needing an explanation why.  

But to Chuck's point (seriously? I hate myself) there are absolutely certain things that need to be answered because it gets to the very heart of why we've been so enthralled in watching.

You should hate yourself. Of course I want some answers. But I really don't care if we get answers to little things or anything Chuck wants to know.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:58:15 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

Thanks for ruining Battlestar for me. Lindelof has already addressed (http://io9.com/5478314/the-real-problem-with-midichlorians) the "what is the island" question, and I agree with him. It's a cool place where crazy shit happens. What more do you need to know?

QuoteThere are certain questions about the show that I'm very befuddled by like, 'What is the Island?' or 'What do the numbers mean?' We're going to be explaining a little more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers, but what do you mean by 'What do the numbers mean?' What is a potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very careful about entering into Midi-Chlorian territory. I grew up on Star Wars; I've seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times; I can recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to me or did it occur to me to say, 'What is the Force, exactly? Can you explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?' I understand, 'When are we going to find out about Libby?' That's a very finite question. 'Who is Jacob?' OK, yes, we've been talking to this guy named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but 'What is the Island?' That starts to get into 'What is the Force?' It is a place. I can't explain to you why it moves through space-time-it just does. You have to accept the fact that it does.

Certainly there are things that we will have to just accept like "the island is not like all other places on Earth", and it's totally fair that 5 years in we can just accept things like "time travels happens" without needing an explanation why.  

But to Chuck's point (seriously? I hate myself) there are absolutely certain things that need to be answered because it gets to the very heart of why we've been so enthralled in watching.

You should hate yourself. Of course I want some answers. But I really don't care if we get answers to little things or anything Chuck wants to know.

I think the line for people is going to be what constitutes the "little things."

For example:
I'd like to know what the deal with Christian is.
I'd like to see more Desmond before this series ends.
What's with the alt timeline? Is it all because of Jughead blowing up and if so, how far back did that change things (like if it only changed things after that, why is Ben substitute teaching)
What are those 4-toed statues (okay, maybe I don't really care about this)
How does Flocke turn into the smoke monster and what the hell is it?
What's up with Richard? Why doesn't he age? Is he just a patsy this whole time, following orders? (Sounds like this may get some play next week)
Why do all the women who become pregnant on the island have problems (pretty sure this isn't getting answered and it's just accepted as fact)
Do Adam and Eve have any relevance/more importance?
Does Vincent time travel too?
Have we seen the last of Walt? (I assume so)
What favor did Jacob ask of Ilana?
Who is that kid who said Flocke couldn't kill him b/c of the rules? Who's rules? Who can't he kill?

Okay, that's just a quick smattering.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 05, 2010, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:58:15 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

Thanks for ruining Battlestar for me. Lindelof has already addressed (http://io9.com/5478314/the-real-problem-with-midichlorians) the "what is the island" question, and I agree with him. It's a cool place where crazy shit happens. What more do you need to know?

QuoteThere are certain questions about the show that I'm very befuddled by like, 'What is the Island?' or 'What do the numbers mean?' We're going to be explaining a little more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers, but what do you mean by 'What do the numbers mean?' What is a potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very careful about entering into Midi-Chlorian territory. I grew up on Star Wars; I've seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times; I can recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to me or did it occur to me to say, 'What is the Force, exactly? Can you explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?' I understand, 'When are we going to find out about Libby?' That's a very finite question. 'Who is Jacob?' OK, yes, we've been talking to this guy named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but 'What is the Island?' That starts to get into 'What is the Force?' It is a place. I can't explain to you why it moves through space-time-it just does. You have to accept the fact that it does.

Certainly there are things that we will have to just accept like "the island is not like all other places on Earth", and it's totally fair that 5 years in we can just accept things like "time travels happens" without needing an explanation why.  

But to Chuck's point (seriously? I hate myself) there are absolutely certain things that need to be answered because it gets to the very heart of why we've been so enthralled in watching.

You should hate yourself. Of course I want some answers. But I really don't care if we get answers to little things or anything Chuck wants to know.

I think the line for people is going to be what constitutes the "little things."

For example:
I'd like to know what the deal with Christian is.
I'd like to see more Desmond before this series ends.
What's with the alt timeline? Is it all because of Jughead blowing up and if so, how far back did that change things (like if it only changed things after that, why is Ben substitute teaching)
What are those 4-toed statues (okay, maybe I don't really care about this)
How does Flocke turn into the smoke monster and what the hell is it?
What's up with Richard? Why doesn't he age? Is he just a patsy this whole time, following orders? (Sounds like this may get some play next week)
Why do all the women who become pregnant on the island have problems (pretty sure this isn't getting answered and it's just accepted as fact)
Do Adam and Eve have any relevance/more importance?
Does Vincent time travel too?
Have we seen the last of Walt? (I assume so)
What favor did Jacob ask of Ilana?
Who is that kid who said Flocke couldn't kill him b/c of the rules? Who's rules? Who can't he kill?

Okay, that's just a quick smattering.

Those are all big questions, and I'd bet dollars to donuts (what does that even mean anyway?) that they'll all be answered.

So to sum up, you overreacted to an innocent quote from the producers and should apologize to all of Desipio.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 01:11:59 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:58:15 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

Thanks for ruining Battlestar for me. Lindelof has already addressed (http://io9.com/5478314/the-real-problem-with-midichlorians) the "what is the island" question, and I agree with him. It's a cool place where crazy shit happens. What more do you need to know?

QuoteThere are certain questions about the show that I'm very befuddled by like, 'What is the Island?' or 'What do the numbers mean?' We're going to be explaining a little more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers, but what do you mean by 'What do the numbers mean?' What is a potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very careful about entering into Midi-Chlorian territory. I grew up on Star Wars; I've seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times; I can recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to me or did it occur to me to say, 'What is the Force, exactly? Can you explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?' I understand, 'When are we going to find out about Libby?' That's a very finite question. 'Who is Jacob?' OK, yes, we've been talking to this guy named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but 'What is the Island?' That starts to get into 'What is the Force?' It is a place. I can't explain to you why it moves through space-time-it just does. You have to accept the fact that it does.

Certainly there are things that we will have to just accept like "the island is not like all other places on Earth", and it's totally fair that 5 years in we can just accept things like "time travels happens" without needing an explanation why.  

But to Chuck's point (seriously? I hate myself) there are absolutely certain things that need to be answered because it gets to the very heart of why we've been so enthralled in watching.

You should hate yourself. Of course I want some answers. But I really don't care if we get answers to little things or anything Chuck wants to know.

I think the line for people is going to be what constitutes the "little things."

For example:
I'd like to know what the deal with Christian is.
I'd like to see more Desmond before this series ends.
What's with the alt timeline? Is it all because of Jughead blowing up and if so, how far back did that change things (like if it only changed things after that, why is Ben substitute teaching)
What are those 4-toed statues (okay, maybe I don't really care about this)
How does Flocke turn into the smoke monster and what the hell is it?
What's up with Richard? Why doesn't he age? Is he just a patsy this whole time, following orders? (Sounds like this may get some play next week)
Why do all the women who become pregnant on the island have problems (pretty sure this isn't getting answered and it's just accepted as fact)
Do Adam and Eve have any relevance/more importance?
Does Vincent time travel too?
Have we seen the last of Walt? (I assume so)
What favor did Jacob ask of Ilana?
Who is that kid who said Flocke couldn't kill him b/c of the rules? Who's rules? Who can't he kill?

Okay, that's just a quick smattering.

Those are all big questions, and I'd bet dollars to donuts (what does that even mean anyway?) that they'll all be answered.

So to sum up, you overreacted to an innocent quote from the producers and should apologize to all of Desipio.

I'll apologize if they answer all the big questions. 
But only then.

And I'll apologize to your mother.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 05, 2010, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 01:11:59 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:58:15 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 05, 2010, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 05, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
I find all this "did they plan it stuff" tiresome. It's been an awesomely entertaining show. As long as there aren't any plot holes THE SIZE OF A SINGULARITY, I don't give a rat's ass.

Agreed, but one the reasons it's been entertaining is a "what the fuck is going on" string to the whole series.  If they don't answer stuff like "what is the island" and "why can't anyone find it" better than Battlestar's "God did it" ending, a lot of people are gonna be pissed.

Thanks for ruining Battlestar for me. Lindelof has already addressed (http://io9.com/5478314/the-real-problem-with-midichlorians) the "what is the island" question, and I agree with him. It's a cool place where crazy shit happens. What more do you need to know?

QuoteThere are certain questions about the show that I'm very befuddled by like, 'What is the Island?' or 'What do the numbers mean?' We're going to be explaining a little more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers, but what do you mean by 'What do the numbers mean?' What is a potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very careful about entering into Midi-Chlorian territory. I grew up on Star Wars; I've seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times; I can recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to me or did it occur to me to say, 'What is the Force, exactly? Can you explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?' I understand, 'When are we going to find out about Libby?' That's a very finite question. 'Who is Jacob?' OK, yes, we've been talking to this guy named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but 'What is the Island?' That starts to get into 'What is the Force?' It is a place. I can't explain to you why it moves through space-time-it just does. You have to accept the fact that it does.

Certainly there are things that we will have to just accept like "the island is not like all other places on Earth", and it's totally fair that 5 years in we can just accept things like "time travels happens" without needing an explanation why.  

But to Chuck's point (seriously? I hate myself) there are absolutely certain things that need to be answered because it gets to the very heart of why we've been so enthralled in watching.

You should hate yourself. Of course I want some answers. But I really don't care if we get answers to little things or anything Chuck wants to know.

I think the line for people is going to be what constitutes the "little things."

For example:
I'd like to know what the deal with Christian is.
I'd like to see more Desmond before this series ends.
What's with the alt timeline? Is it all because of Jughead blowing up and if so, how far back did that change things (like if it only changed things after that, why is Ben substitute teaching)
What are those 4-toed statues (okay, maybe I don't really care about this)
How does Flocke turn into the smoke monster and what the hell is it?
What's up with Richard? Why doesn't he age? Is he just a patsy this whole time, following orders? (Sounds like this may get some play next week)
Why do all the women who become pregnant on the island have problems (pretty sure this isn't getting answered and it's just accepted as fact)
Do Adam and Eve have any relevance/more importance?
Does Vincent time travel too?
Have we seen the last of Walt? (I assume so)
What favor did Jacob ask of Ilana?
Who is that kid who said Flocke couldn't kill him b/c of the rules? Who's rules? Who can't he kill?

Okay, that's just a quick smattering.

Those are all big questions, and I'd bet dollars to donuts (what does that even mean anyway?) that they'll all be answered.

So to sum up, you overreacted to an innocent quote from the producers and should apologize to all of Desipio.

I'll apologize if they answer all the big questions. 
But only then.

And I'll apologize to your mother.

This may seem strange, but the mystery I'm most interested in is who Juliet shot during the canoe chase last season (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_other_Others).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 05, 2010, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
Does Vincent time travel too?

(http://i49.tinypic.com/28lq6o1.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 05, 2010, 02:04:12 PM
I am under the assumption that the alt. timeline is something that has always been going on. An actual alternate universe or something. Obviously it had to start before Juliet blew up the bomb because Ben is alive. The fact that NotLocke says he can give Sayid what he wants (to be with Nadia) makes me think he knows of this alternate timeline and can put Island Sayid into the Alt. Timeline Sayid and everything is hunky dory. Now if he'll actually do that is another story. I guess Jacob and MIB can both offer that but they have different ways to do it, and that might be their big conflict.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on March 06, 2010, 10:07:25 AM
Quote from: Yeti on March 05, 2010, 02:04:12 PM
I am under the assumption that the alt. timeline is something that has always been going on. An actual alternate universe or something. Obviously it had to start before Juliet blew up the bomb because Ben is alive. The fact that NotLocke says he can give Sayid what he wants (to be with Nadia) makes me think he knows of this alternate timeline and can put Island Sayid into the Alt. Timeline Sayid and everything is hunky dory. Now if he'll actually do that is another story. I guess Jacob and MIB can both offer that but they have different ways to do it, and that might be their big conflict.

I wonder if that is at all related to "the magic box" that Ben talks about way back in season 3.  Maybe Jacob/NotLocke can pull everyone to the island from any of these alternate universes, sort of like how the time travel, wheel room was capable of sending a person off the island.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on March 06, 2010, 01:30:31 PM
Quote from: Weebs on March 06, 2010, 10:07:25 AM
Quote from: Yeti on March 05, 2010, 02:04:12 PM
I am under the assumption that the alt. timeline is something that has always been going on. An actual alternate universe or something. Obviously it had to start before Juliet blew up the bomb because Ben is alive. The fact that NotLocke says he can give Sayid what he wants (to be with Nadia) makes me think he knows of this alternate timeline and can put Island Sayid into the Alt. Timeline Sayid and everything is hunky dory. Now if he'll actually do that is another story. I guess Jacob and MIB can both offer that but they have different ways to do it, and that might be their big conflict.

I wonder if that is at all related to "the magic box" that Ben talks about way back in season 3.  Maybe Jacob/NotLocke can pull everyone to the island from any of these alternate universes, sort of like how the time travel, wheel room was capable of sending a person off the island.

That's one of the questions that really needs to be answered.  Just how did Ben get Locke's dad to the island?  Who built the donkey wheel?  How did Dharma find our about/ get to the Island?  Why did they need to be there?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 06, 2010, 03:22:28 PM
Quote from: Weebs on March 06, 2010, 10:07:25 AM
I wonder if that is at all related to "the magic box" that Ben talks about way back in season 3.  Maybe Jacob/NotLocke can pull everyone to the island from any of these alternate universes, sort of like how the time travel, wheel room was capable of sending a person off the island.

I'm not gonna dismiss this out of hand, but I certainly hope EvilLocke's endgame is bigger than a "magic box."

(A "box" which Ben already claimed was a metaphor. Perhaps for the island itself.)

Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 06, 2010, 01:30:31 PM
That's one of the questions that really needs to be answered.  Just how did Ben get Locke's dad to the island?  Who built the donkey wheel?  How did Dharma find our about/ get to the Island?  Why did they need to be there?

One of the questions that really needs to be answered is how one secondary character got to the island for a few minutes of screen time in a single episode?

And Dharma? Who gives a shit about Dharma at this point?

I hope you're happy, Pen.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on March 06, 2010, 04:45:04 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 06, 2010, 03:22:28 PM
One of the questions that really needs to be answered is how one secondary character got to the island for a few minutes of screen time in a single episode?

And Dharma? Who gives a shit about Dharma at this point?

I hope you're happy, Pen.

Yeah.  Understanding how a character that was responsible for one of the great moments in the series (Sawyer's revenge killing of him) got to be there doesn't matter at all.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 06:53:21 PM
I wish TDubbs were here to let me know how awesome tonight's gonna be.

(I just hit "info" on tonight's episode on Comcast's schedule, and it looks like at the very least Kerm should be pleased.)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 09, 2010, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 06:53:21 PM
I wish TDubbs were here to let me know how awesome tonight's gonna be.

(I just hit "info" on tonight's episode on Comcast's schedule, and it looks like at the very least Kerm should be pleased.)

Shouldn't it suit Morph more?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 09, 2010, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 06:53:21 PM
I wish TDubbs were here to let me know how awesome tonight's gonna be.

(I just hit "info" on tonight's episode on Comcast's schedule, and it looks like at the very least Kerm should be pleased.)

Shouldn't it suit Morph more?

I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it.

And, actually, it looks like a couple people we all miss are coming back tonight.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 09, 2010, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 09, 2010, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 06:53:21 PM
I wish TDubbs were here to let me know how awesome tonight's gonna be.

(I just hit "info" on tonight's episode on Comcast's schedule, and it looks like at the very least Kerm should be pleased.)

Shouldn't it suit Morph more?

I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it.

And, actually, it looks like a couple people we all miss are coming back tonight.

You miss Arzt as much as I do? Hooray!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 09, 2010, 08:25:07 PM
Tank, I thought I heard something significant happens with Ben (morph reference), but if I heard wrong then my apologies.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 08:50:47 PM
Alex or Power, Ben... What's it gonna be?

(This show is brilliant.)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 09:02:43 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 09, 2010, 08:25:07 PM
Tank, I thought I heard something significant happens with Ben (morph reference), but if I heard wrong then my apologies.

Now I see... Who's Ben, indeed.

Quote from: Slack-E on March 09, 2010, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 09, 2010, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 06:53:21 PM
I wish TDubbs were here to let me know how awesome tonight's gonna be.

(I just hit "info" on tonight's episode on Comcast's schedule, and it looks like at the very least Kerm should be pleased.)

Shouldn't it suit Morph more?

I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it.

And, actually, it looks like a couple people we all miss are coming back tonight.

You miss Arzt as much as I do? Hooray!

We all do, Slak. We all do.

Anyone else laugh out loud when the periscope popped out of the water?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on March 09, 2010, 09:05:47 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 09:02:43 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 09, 2010, 08:25:07 PM
Tank, I thought I heard something significant happens with Ben (morph reference), but if I heard wrong then my apologies.

Now I see... Who's Ben, indeed.

Quote from: Slack-E on March 09, 2010, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 09, 2010, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 09, 2010, 06:53:21 PM
I wish TDubbs were here to let me know how awesome tonight's gonna be.

(I just hit "info" on tonight's episode on Comcast's schedule, and it looks like at the very least Kerm should be pleased.)

Shouldn't it suit Morph more?

I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it.

And, actually, it looks like a couple people we all miss are coming back tonight.

You miss Arzt as much as I do? Hooray!

We all do, Slak. We all do.

Anyone else laugh out loud when the periscope popped out of the water?

I laughed more when Ilana wobbled to a stop after Ben pulled the gun on her.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on March 09, 2010, 09:37:22 PM
Welcome back Mr Widmore
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 10, 2010, 07:45:10 AM
I'm liking this new I-don't-give-a-fuck-let's-sit-here-with-some-lit-dynamite-and-have-a-chat version of Jack. After Uncle Rico's confirmation that Ben *was* on the island, I'm even more curious as to when and how it sank.

So: Richard was given a "gift" by Jacob that prevents him from killing himself.

I'm assuming this is why Michael was unable to off himself after he left the island.

But when Michael finally was allowed to die, Christian showed up and said "you can go now." Which would imply that Christian was speaking on Jacob's behalf/was Jacob - but from what I can tell so far, Christian has been associated with Smokey (appearing to Locke in the cabin and the donkey wheel chamber to nudge along Locke's return as a corpse to the island).

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 10, 2010, 07:51:40 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 10, 2010, 07:45:10 AM
I'm liking this new I-don't-give-a-fuck-let's-sit-here-with-some-lit-dynamite-and-have-a-chat version of Jack. After Uncle Rico's confirmation that Ben *was* on the island, I'm even more curious as to when and how it sank.

So: Richard was given a "gift" by Jacob that prevents him from killing himself.

I'm assuming this is why Michael was unable to off himself after he left the island.

But when Michael finally was allowed to die, Christian showed up and said "you can go now." Which would imply that Christian was speaking on Jacob's behalf/was Jacob - but from what I can tell so far, Christian has been associated with Smokey (appearing to Locke in the cabin and the donkey wheel chamber to nudge along Locke's return as a corpse to the island).

Am I missing something?

Probably.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on March 11, 2010, 11:31:01 AM
Of course I love Alex, and I loved the redemption of Ben Linus, but did anyone else think they used some terribly canned plot devices to get to it?  I was so fucking annoyed with Walter Peck's threat to keep Alex out of Yale.  Why couldn't Ben have just said, "Yeah, not only was he fucking the school nurse, but he also threatened to ruin this girl's life when I told him I knew about it"?  Would Yale have really put a lot of stock in his letter of non-recommendation after that?  Peck was the ONLY way she was going to get into Yale?  It felt feeble and weak.  Also, I taught biology, and I have no clue how to hack into an e-mail account.  In fact I don't think any area of "science" would help with that.  Also, am I mistaken or did Mario Van Peebles direct that episode?  I was expecting a giant slug to pop up and attack a bunch of space marines.

Did I just pull a Weebs?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 11, 2010, 11:39:56 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 11, 2010, 11:31:01 AM
Of course I love Alex, and I loved the redemption of Ben Linus, but did anyone else think they used some terribly canned plot devices to get to it?  I was so fucking annoyed with Walter Peck's threat to keep Alex out of Yale.  Why couldn't Ben have just said, "Yeah, not only was he fucking the school nurse, but he also threatened to ruin this girl's life when I told him I knew about it"?  Would Yale have really put a lot of stock in his letter of non-recommendation after that?  Peck was the ONLY way she was going to get into Yale?  It felt feeble and weak.  Also, I taught biology, and I have no clue how to hack into an e-mail account.  In fact I don't think any area of "science" would help with that.  Also, am I mistaken or did Mario Van Peebles direct that episode?  I was expecting a giant slug to pop up and attack a bunch of space marines.

Did I just pull a Weebs?

Yeah, the SidewaysBen story was pretty weak, especially when it came to the dialogue. Some of the lines were WAY too on-the-nose.

Quote from: Exploding ArztYou know, you really had me fooled with that sweater vest. Linus you're a real killer!

Quote from: Uncle RicoNo, I'm serious, Ben! Who knows what you would have become?

The biggest plot hole was that a man with no dick was boinking the school nurse.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 16, 2010, 07:19:09 PM
Am rewatching last week's episode and just noticed that it was directed by Mario Van Peebles.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/a1mqfa.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 16, 2010, 08:48:50 PM
Yea, Thrill, this has nothing to do with God
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 16, 2010, 09:05:03 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 16, 2010, 08:48:50 PM
Yea, Thrill, this has nothing to do with God

True... God had nothing to do with EvilLocke sending Sawyer to Hydra.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on March 16, 2010, 10:07:46 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 16, 2010, 07:19:09 PM
Am rewatching last week's episode and just noticed that it was directed by Mario Van Peebles.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/a1mqfa.jpg)

Guns don't kill people
Mario Van Peebles
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 17, 2010, 08:27:47 AM
A couple of interesting (http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2010/03/lost-recon-middleman.html) takes (http://www.avclub.com/articles/recon,39276/) on the flash-sideways (the first one from Ken Tremendous):

QuoteI think the alt-present scenes are an attempt to show what each character's true nature is, absent any situation where the island draws them more towards either Smokey or Jacob. This didn't occur to me until last night, but it felt like they were saying: Ben is an intellectual guy, searching for meaning in his life, frustrated by powerlessness, and thus capable of Machiavellian manipulations. But inherently, when push comes to shove, he is decent. Which is why in the island-reality he chose, at that crucial moment, to steer away from Smokey and back to Jacob. Sayid, on the other hand, has something inherently violent and evil in him, which is why in the alt-present he killed those guys, and on the island gave himself over to Smokey. Jack is deeply conflicted about his father and has it in him to be angry and conflicted, but in the alt-present he is inherently interested in being a good father himself and breaking the cycle of emotional abuse, so in the island-reality he's on Team Jacob, and so forth.

[...]

I think they are "influencing" what is happening on the island only inasmuch as they show us what these people truly are, in the truest existential sense -- their actual natures are at play in the alt-futures, and those "teetering-between-good-and-evil" natures, I guess you could say, are what Jacob "saw," somehow, and they are what led him to determine that they are "candidates." That moment where Smokey picked up the white rock off the scale and tossed it out the door is more fuel for this theory -- they pick people who are perfectly balanced between "bad" and "good" and bring them to the island as a sort of laboratory to determine which of those forces wins out in the end. So the events that are occurring in the island-present -- the Lost version of "The Stand," where sides are being drawn -- are the "result" (though not really, obviously, in the causal sense) of the alt-futures, wherein we are seeing that left to their own devices, each of these people tilts slightly to one side of the good/evil equation.

QuoteYou know what might end up being the central episode of this whole damn series when all is said and done? "Flashes Before Your Eyes." Remember how Desmond returned to the world before he went to The Island, and how Mrs. Hawking told him he had to snap out of it and resume his responsibility? Two other relevant tidbits about "Flashes Before Your Eyes:" Desmond throws the engagement ring he bought for Penny into the Thames, just as Sawyer throws the ring he bought for Juliet into the water. And when Desmond wakes back up on The Island, his head still hurts from being whacked with the cricket bat right before he flashed—much as Jack still bears wounds and scars from his Island life in the Alterna-world. Not only am I going to predict (tentatively, of course) that the "flash-sideways" will resolve in much the same way they did for Desmond, with Hawking or someone similar shocking the Alterna-815ers back to "reality," but I also predict—as many of you already have—that this resolution has already occurred, and that the season-opening scene at the imploded hatch takes place after our gang has given up their other lives and jumped back. I could be way off here, but that's my sense of things. After all, it can't just be a coincidence that The Hatch was the site of two of these reality-splits.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 17, 2010, 11:02:39 AM
A fine episode, setting things up for future episode.

But goddamn that final scene between Kate and Sawyer was ridiculous.
So Kate questions who is going to fly the plane, but when Sawyer says that they're taking the sub she's cool with that?
Did I miss the part where captaining a submarine is somehow a common skill?

And that final Sawyer look that the end the episode with...pretty sure they let Christopher Guest direct the last 5 minutes of the show.

Otherwise, interesting of course that the Sawyer alt-story was so similar to the original Sawyer story (what with Copper and all), but this time Sawyer doesn't write the letter...because he never met Jacob to give him the pen? 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 17, 2010, 11:05:22 AM
From Doc Jensen:

"Lewis' The Dark Tower begins with a conversation about time travel. The characters conclude that the past can't be changed. They then find a device called a ''chronoscope'' that allows them to peer into the past or future — or so they think. Looking into the chronoscope, they witness a past or future world (they can't tell which, so they just call it ''Othertime'') in which a devilish character leads people astray, clouding their minds and turning them into virtual zombies. Then a character makes a discovery: The chronoscope isn't a device that allows peeks into other times — it allows them to peek into parallel worlds. He then makes another discovery: His double in Othertime is a bad guy. To prevent him from doing bad things, he crosses over...and accidentally switches minds with his bad doppelganger. And so, while the Good Guy tries to save the day in Othertime, his evil doppelganger wreaks havoc in ''the real world'' and the Good Guy's ''real world'' friends try to stop him. "

Next week's episode will be totally awesome.  I just feel like they're really building up to something, but what that is, is hard to define for me.  Each episode is cool how they are so intertwined in the sideways reality, but it doesn't mean anything it seems like. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 17, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 17, 2010, 11:02:39 AM
A fine episode, setting things up for future episode.

But goddamn that final scene between Kate and Sawyer was ridiculous.
So Kate questions who is going to fly the plane, but when Sawyer says that they're taking the sub she's cool with that?
Did I miss the part where captaining a submarine is somehow a common skill?

And that final Sawyer look that the end the episode with...pretty sure they let Christopher Guest direct the last 5 minutes of the show.

Otherwise, interesting of course that the Sawyer alt-story was so similar to the original Sawyer story (what with Copper and all), but this time Sawyer doesn't write the letter...because he never met Jacob to give him the pen? 

As far as piloting the submarine goes, maybe I've watched too much TV, but can't you just put a gun to Widmore's pilot's dome and tell that guy to do it? Easy enough.

And yeah, there's no Jacob in the alt-timeline. We're seeing what would happen if all these people had actual free will instead of getting nudged along the way.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on March 17, 2010, 12:10:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 16, 2010, 07:19:09 PM
Am rewatching last week's episode and just noticed that it was directed by Mario Van Peebles.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/a1mqfa.jpg)

You butthole (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg208321#msg208321).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 17, 2010, 12:11:41 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 17, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 17, 2010, 11:02:39 AM
A fine episode, setting things up for future episode.

But goddamn that final scene between Kate and Sawyer was ridiculous.
So Kate questions who is going to fly the plane, but when Sawyer says that they're taking the sub she's cool with that?
Did I miss the part where captaining a submarine is somehow a common skill?

And that final Sawyer look that the end the episode with...pretty sure they let Christopher Guest direct the last 5 minutes of the show.

Otherwise, interesting of course that the Sawyer alt-story was so similar to the original Sawyer story (what with Copper and all), but this time Sawyer doesn't write the letter...because he never met Jacob to give him the pen?  

As far as piloting the submarine goes, maybe I've watched too much TV, but can't you just put a gun to Widmore's pilot's dome and tell that guy to do it? Easy enough.

And yeah, there's no Jacob in the alt-timeline. We're seeing what would happen if all these people had actual free will instead of getting nudged along the way.

I think they have free will either way you cut it. We're just seeing some of them make different choices.

Which is why I'm not so hot on this part of Cousin Mose's gloss you quoted above:

QuoteI think the alt-present scenes are an attempt to show what each character's true nature is, absent any situation where the island draws them more towards either Smokey or Jacob.

...they show us what these people truly are, in the truest existential sense -- their actual natures are at play in the alt-futures...

Neither timeline shows us a character's "true" or "actual" nature compared against the other. They're showing the same character making different choices.

Yes, it seems that there's no Jacob in their lives in alt-time (though there was, apparently, still an island, which was apparently still special enough to draw Dharma to it—though maybe for different reasons). But, even with Jacob's "nudges" (or EvilLocke's manipulations) in the original timeline, the choices they've made have still always been their own.

The point behind the Existentialist motto "existence precedes essence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_precedes_essence)" was just this: that our "nature" is defined by our actions and our choices.

This could lead us into thorny discussions of free will vs. fate (obviously one of the big themes of the show), but for now I'll only link to this, which seems somewhat relevant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism_and_incompatibilism#Compatibilism

QuoteFurther, according to Hume, free will should not be understood as an absolute ability to have chosen differently under exactly the same inner and outer circumstances. Rather, it is a hypothetical ability to have chosen differently if one had been differently psychologically disposed by some different beliefs or desires. That is, when one says that one could either continue to read this page or to delete it, one doesn't really mean that both choices are compatible with the complete state of the world right now, but rather that if one had desired to delete it one would have, even though as a matter of fact one actually desires to continue reading it, and therefore that is what will actually happen.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 17, 2010, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 17, 2010, 12:10:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 16, 2010, 07:19:09 PM
Am rewatching last week's episode and just noticed that it was directed by Mario Van Peebles.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/a1mqfa.jpg)

You butthole (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg208321#msg208321).

Sorry, dude.

Guess I must have stopped reading once I got to "I taught biology..."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on March 17, 2010, 12:26:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 17, 2010, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 17, 2010, 12:10:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 16, 2010, 07:19:09 PM
Am rewatching last week's episode and just noticed that it was directed by Mario Van Peebles.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/a1mqfa.jpg)

You butthole (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg208321#msg208321).

Sorry, dude.

Guess I must have stopped reading once I got to "I taught biology..."

Well, then, you totally missed me pulling a Weebs!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: ChuckD on March 17, 2010, 08:21:40 PM
I can't believe Tank mentioned Mario Van Peebles without leading off with this Desipio instant classic (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=1440.msg17874#msg17874).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 17, 2010, 11:22:24 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on March 17, 2010, 08:21:40 PM
I can't believe Tank mentioned Mario Van Peebles without leading off with this Desipio instant classic (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=1440.msg17874#msg17874).

I see 2005 was the last time Fork had fresh material. (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=1440.msg25874#msg25874)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on March 19, 2010, 02:37:31 AM
"Have you ever seen Bullitt" has got to be the best line this operation has ever produced.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 23, 2010, 12:21:59 PM
I haven't said it in awhile b/c I haven't really believed it, but tonight is definitely going to be awesome.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 23, 2010, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 23, 2010, 12:21:59 PM
I haven't said it in awhile b/c I haven't really believed it, but tonight is definitely going to be awesome.

RICHARD!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 23, 2010, 07:12:46 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 23, 2010, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 23, 2010, 12:21:59 PM
I haven't said it in awhile b/c I haven't really believed it, but tonight is definitely going to be awesome.

RICHARD!!!!!!!!!!!

I accidentally read a small spoiler about tonight's episode a while back (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg206549#msg206549). I think we're definitely gonna find out how Alpert got to the island.

Hopefully this will involve flashbacks instead of (or in addition to) flash-sidewayses. And, if so, hopefully that gives us some more face time with a real live Jacob again. Should be pretty awesome, regardless.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 23, 2010, 07:21:54 PM
Tonight's pre-air episode description says "Richard Alpert faces a difficult choice."

Not surprisingly given this season's themes, I seem to recall similar descriptions have come up in previous episodes... "Sayid faces a difficult decision", "Ben makes a difficult choice", maybe another.

Incidentally, according to Lostpedia, tonight's episode "is scheduled to air for 1 hour, 6 minutes instead of the customary 1 hour, 2 minutes."

That means 4 extra minutes of awesome.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on March 23, 2010, 08:10:47 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 23, 2010, 07:21:54 PM
Tonight's pre-air episode description says "Richard Alpert faces a difficult choice."

Not surprisingly given this season's themes, I seem to recall similar descriptions have come up in previous episodes... "Sayid faces a difficult decision", "Ben makes a difficult choice", maybe another.

Incidentally, according to Lostpedia, tonight's episode "is scheduled to air for 1 hour, 6 minutes instead of the customary 1 hour, 2 minutes."

That means 4 extra minutes of awesome.

Where does this air on Canadian television? "Ab Aeterno" was available from the usual suspects at quarter past seven (CDT), at the latest.


[Should've known. Must have been the 7 p.m. ADT Halifax (http://www.facebook.com/v/1045565191785) broadcast.]
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 23, 2010, 10:40:52 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 16, 2010, 08:48:50 PM
Yea, Thrill, this has nothing to do with God

What's up now, bitches?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on March 24, 2010, 03:05:01 AM
Well, that was a regular barn-burner. I can totally imagine shirtless TDubbs in that suede prison-ship suspenders outfit.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Right now, I will admit I'm sort of let down by the transparency of last night's episode. It just seemed so easy after all that's happened. I'm fairly sure that the writers aren't going to be as see-through all the way to the end but I don't know. Interested to hear what everyone else thought.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Right now, I will admit I'm sort of let down by the transparency of last night's episode. It just seemed so easy after all that's happened. I'm fairly sure that the writers aren't going to be as see-through all the way to the end but I don't know. Interested to hear what everyone else thought.

It was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

But we now seem to have a story where the Island is some sort of Pandora's Box and the Man in Black is trying to escape.  How and why that makes the Island shift in time, why babies can't be born there, and why various people want to control it (what's the benefit) will come out.  Only 7 episodes left!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 10:23:00 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Right now, I will admit I'm sort of let down by the transparency of last night's episode. It just seemed so easy after all that's happened. I'm fairly sure that the writers aren't going to be as see-through all the way to the end but I don't know. Interested to hear what everyone else thought.

It was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

But we now seem to have a story where the Island is some sort of Pandora's Box and the Man in Black is trying to escape.  How and why that makes the Island shift in time, why babies can't be born there, and why various people want to control it (what's the benefit) will come out.  Only 7 episodes left!

The Jacob v. Esau thing has overshadowed what seemed like a Ben v. Widmore thing earlier. Widmore is still around obviously plotting and planning but Ben doesn't have the same power he had before he killed Locke.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

He is a really good actor.  I didn't think they needed to have him chained up in that ship for 35 minutes of the whole episode, though.  Seemed really drawn out and boring.  We get it, he's stuck there.
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey? 
It was cool to see how Jacob got ahold of that knife.  Does it have special killing powers?  Did Sayid stabbing Flocke have any effect at all?  Hearing the Hanso name come up again was a trip back in time. 
Was smokey smashing the wine bottle symbolism?  I think so. 

I disagree with Chuck thinking that Alpert isn't an important character, though.  Mainly b/c Chuck is a fucking idiot.  And I didn't cry.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on March 24, 2010, 10:37:06 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 10:23:00 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Right now, I will admit I'm sort of let down by the transparency of last night's episode. It just seemed so easy after all that's happened. I'm fairly sure that the writers aren't going to be as see-through all the way to the end but I don't know. Interested to hear what everyone else thought.

It was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

But we now seem to have a story where the Island is some sort of Pandora's Box and the Man in Black is trying to escape.  How and why that makes the Island shift in time, why babies can't be born there, and why various people want to control it (what's the benefit) will come out.  Only 7 episodes left!

The Jacob v. Esau thing has overshadowed what seemed like a Ben v. Widmore thing earlier. Widmore is still around obviously plotting and planning but Ben doesn't have the same power he had before he killed Locke.

I like the fall from power that Ben had. He was always one step ahead of everybody and had the upper hand in just about every situation and then just like that we find out he was just a pawn.

I liked last nights episode. It started to answer some big questions which was good.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on March 24, 2010, 10:55:06 AM
I thought it was an awesome episode.  Hearing Jacob explain how he brings people to the island to give them another chance to turn their lives around almost seems to confirm the flash-sideways are showing what happens to everyone after they leave whatever reality they exist in on the island, with Jacob no longer needing to influence their lives because they chose how they wanted to live.  I'm also starting to think that maybe in the flash-sideways world, the result of Jacob "converting" the Dharma folk led them to sink the island themselves because they knew its power could be too dangerous.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I disagree with Chuck thinking that Alpert isn't an important character, though.  Mainly b/c Chuck is a fucking idiot.  And I didn't cry.

Is that what I think?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I disagree with Chuck thinking that Alpert isn't an important character, though.  Mainly b/c Chuck is a fucking idiot.  And I didn't cry.

Is that what I think?

QuoteIt was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

Yes.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on March 24, 2010, 11:10:37 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
Was smokey smashing the wine bottle symbolism?  I think so. 

(http://gallerydriver.com/Art/Pieter%20Shirtless%20with%20Suspenders-t.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I disagree with Chuck thinking that Alpert isn't an important character, though.  Mainly b/c Chuck is a fucking idiot.  And I didn't cry.

Is that what I think?

QuoteIt was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

Yes.

So, minor = unimportant?  Wow.  The shit you learn...
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on March 24, 2010, 11:19:41 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I disagree with Chuck thinking that Alpert isn't an important character, though.  Mainly b/c Chuck is a fucking idiot.  And I didn't cry.

Is that what I think?

QuoteIt was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

Yes.

So, minor = unimportant?  Wow.  The shit you learn...

I think in the way you used "minor," that's exactly what it means.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
Was smokey smashing the wine bottle symbolism? I think so.

Considering Jacob explained the symbolism of it explicitly just minutes earlier, I don't think it could have been any more clear.

Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

That.

Chuck thought it was superfluous after the Desmond-Penny story. But that's only because Chuck is Desipio's greatest monster.

Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Right now, I will admit I'm sort of let down by the transparency of last night's episode. It just seemed so easy after all that's happened. I'm fairly sure that the writers aren't going to be as see-through all the way to the end but I don't know. Interested to hear what everyone else thought.

I will say that I was surprised at how much they laid out last night, considering that we're just over halfway through the season. We're all so used to them dragging us along for so long that it's a bit of a shock when they come right out and say shit like that.

But, assuming for a moment what we were told last night is all mostly true (and I think it probably is, for the most part), just think: if they were willing to blow that wad with so many episodes left, imagine the awesome shit they have left up their sleeves for the 9 hours this show has left.

It's gonna be more than just a fucking laundry list of answers to Chuck's questions. I'm certain they're fixing to throw some shit at us we never saw coming. Shit's gonna get pretty fucking emotional, too.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:29:04 AM
Quote from: Weebs on March 24, 2010, 11:19:41 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I disagree with Chuck thinking that Alpert isn't an important character, though.  Mainly b/c Chuck is a fucking idiot.  And I didn't cry.

Is that what I think?

QuoteIt was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

Yes.

So, minor = unimportant?  Wow.  The shit you learn...

I think in the way you used "minor," that's exactly what it means.

I think this makes it official: Chuck is worse than Weebs.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 11:30:32 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
Was smokey smashing the wine bottle symbolism? I think so.

Considering Jacob explained the symbolism of it explicitly just minutes earlier, I don't think it could have been any more clear.

Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

That.

Chuck thought it was superfluous after the Desmond-Penny story. But that's only because Chuck is Desipio's greatest monster.

Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Right now, I will admit I'm sort of let down by the transparency of last night's episode. It just seemed so easy after all that's happened. I'm fairly sure that the writers aren't going to be as see-through all the way to the end but I don't know. Interested to hear what everyone else thought.

I will say that I was surprised at how much they laid out last night, considering that we're just over halfway through the season. We're all so used to them dragging us along for so long that it's a bit of a shock when they come right out and say shit like that.

But, assuming for a moment what we were told last night is all mostly true (and I think it probably is, for the most part), just think: if they were willing to blow that wad with so many episodes left, imagine the awesome shit they have left up their sleeves for the 9 hours this show has left.

It's gonna be more than just a fucking laundry list of answers to Chuck's questions. I'm certain they're fixing to throw some shit at us we never saw coming. Shit's gonna get pretty fucking emotional, too.

It's like they're setting all of this up, answering some questions and what not and then it's going to be balls out action near the end. That's what I'm predicting. Also, twists.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:40:43 AM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

I'm pretty sure Richard and the Man in Black roasted and ate this one.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:40:43 AM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

I'm pretty sure Richard and the Man in Black roasted and ate this one.

I forgot about them eating a boar. Oh well, I'd like to continue thinking that boar is a 140+ year old boar that fucks with people, and they ate a different one.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:40:43 AM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

I'm pretty sure Richard and the Man in Black roasted and ate this one.

I forgot about them eating a boar. Oh well, I'd like to continue thinking that boar is a 140+ year old boar that fucks with people, and they ate a different one.

I suppose it could have been a time-traveling boar.

Let's add "Where did the boar that attacked Sawyer come from?" to Chuck's list of must-answer questions.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
Was smokey smashing the wine bottle symbolism? I think so.

Considering Jacob explained the symbolism of it explicitly just minutes earlier, I don't think it could have been any more clear.

Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

That.

Chuck thought it was superfluous after the Desmond-Penny story. But that's only because Chuck is Desipio's greatest monster.

Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Right now, I will admit I'm sort of let down by the transparency of last night's episode. It just seemed so easy after all that's happened. I'm fairly sure that the writers aren't going to be as see-through all the way to the end but I don't know. Interested to hear what everyone else thought.

I will say that I was surprised at how much they laid out last night, considering that we're just over halfway through the season. We're all so used to them dragging us along for so long that it's a bit of a shock when they come right out and say shit like that.

But, assuming for a moment what we were told last night is all mostly true (and I think it probably is, for the most part), just think: if they were willing to blow that wad with so many episodes left, imagine the awesome shit they have left up their sleeves for the 9 hours this show has left.

It's gonna be more than just a fucking laundry list of answers to Chuck's questions. I'm certain they're fixing to throw some shit at us we never saw coming. Shit's gonna get pretty fucking emotional, too.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 24, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

Disagreed. I think Richard HAD to be put through the ringer like he was (could things have been much worse for him when the Man in Black finally showed up?) in order to make it REALISTIC that he'd be so susceptible to the machinations of Smokey & Jacob. And in turn to make it all the more impressive that his faith was so deep that he turned down Smokey's awesome offer even after all the awful shit he'd just been through. Richard is the man.

I completely agree with Tank in being surprised in a good way at how much was spelled out last night. I may be slightly more skeptical on Jacob as a reliable narrator in regards to the island as cork analogy. Maybe him and Smokey are both full of shit and they're just petulant wizards who enjoy toying with people. I also agree that the last few episodes are going to be character- and action-based instead of just a laundry list of answers. Which will be fun.

I'm surprised Weebs hasn't complained about the realism of a wooden boat breaking a statute.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 12:42:00 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 24, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
I'm surprised Weebs hasn't complained about the realism of a wooden boat breaking a statute.

My only thought was where the hell did it go
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian, Locke, Alex, and who else? (besides the speculated Isabella) I'm trying to remember if he was someone who wasn't on the island and dead.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:11:13 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian...

We don't necessarily know this yet, right?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Tinker to Evers to Chance on March 24, 2010, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:11:13 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian...

We don't necessarily know this yet, right?

Mr. Eko's brother.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 01:20:06 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 24, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

Disagreed. I think Richard HAD to be put through the ringer like he was (could things have been much worse for him when the Man in Black finally showed up?) in order to make it REALISTIC that he'd be so susceptible to the machinations of Smokey & Jacob. And in turn to make it all the more impressive that his faith was so deep that he turned down Smokey's awesome offer even after all the awful shit he'd just been through. Richard is the man.

I completely agree with Tank in being surprised in a good way at how much was spelled out last night. I may be slightly more skeptical on Jacob as a reliable narrator in regards to the island as cork analogy. Maybe him and Smokey are both full of shit and they're just petulant wizards who enjoy toying with people. I also agree that the last few episodes are going to be character- and action-based instead of just a laundry list of answers. Which will be fun.

I'm surprised Weebs hasn't complained about the realism of a wooden boat breaking a statute.

So much of this.  I didn't think Ricardo's adventures in slavery were drawn-out at ALL.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:28:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:11:13 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian...

We don't necessarily know this yet, right?

Eh, I guess we don't, but I would think he did. One interaction I'm thinking of was when Christian found Locke at the bottom of (is the station name right) the Orchid when he turned the wheel. He was getting Locke to go to the real world and get the rest back, which are probably pretty important in him getting off the island. (Him being smokey)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 01:37:51 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian, Locke, Alex, and who else? (besides the speculated Isabella) I'm trying to remember if he was someone who wasn't on the island and dead.

What about the young boy?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 24, 2010, 01:38:11 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:28:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:11:13 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian...

We don't necessarily know this yet, right?

Eh, I guess we don't, but I would think he did. One interaction I'm thinking of was when Christian found Locke at the bottom of (is the station name right) the Orchid when he turned the wheel. He was getting Locke to go to the real world and get the rest back, which are probably pretty important in him getting off the island. (Him being smokey)

Or you could look at it from Jacob's point of view. He also had a motive to get Locke to leave. Jacob needed the candidates (Jack, Hurley, Sayid, etc.) to come back to the island to possibly replace him. The candidates weren't going to come back without Locke's prodding/death.

More evidence that Christian is an emissary of Jacob: Richard couldn't kill himself because Jacob wouldn't let him. Michael couldn't kill himself...until the bomb in the freighter was about to go off and Christian said "you can go now."

I think Christian's role in all this is still a mystery.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 24, 2010, 01:38:38 PM
Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 01:37:51 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian, Locke, Alex, and who else? (besides the speculated Isabella) I'm trying to remember if he was someone who wasn't on the island and dead.

What about the young boy?

What about him, you sick bastard?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 24, 2010, 01:38:38 PM
Quote from: Slaky on March 24, 2010, 01:37:51 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian, Locke, Alex, and who else? (besides the speculated Isabella) I'm trying to remember if he was someone who wasn't on the island and dead.

What about the young boy?

What about him, you sick bastard?

Does he like movies about gladiators?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on March 24, 2010, 01:42:11 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

He has assumed Christian, Locke, Alex, and who else? (besides the speculated Isabella) I'm trying to remember if he was someone who wasn't on the island and dead.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Cost_of_Living (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Cost_of_Living)

QuoteThe black smoke Monster is seen and heard darting through the background. A Nigerian man (Emeka) appears, and throws a machete at Eko. The machete lands in a tree next to Eko's head. Eko pulls the machete from the tree and turns to face three men: one with his throat cut, one with a severed arm and one (Emeka) who is cowering before Eko and begging for his life. Eko is about to plunge the machete into Emeka, but Emeka changes into Altar Boy (Daniel) who puts a finger to his lips ("Shhh", just like Walt to Shannon) and says, "Confess." Eko drops the machete and runs.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 24, 2010, 02:02:54 PM
Interesting Biblical mumbo jumbo from the AV Club comments:

QuoteJacob and Smokey may not literally be the God and Satan of Job, but they serve the same basic function as those ancient icons in the world of LOST. Smokey again tempts a weak man via a complex subterfuge; anyone who thought Smokey more honest than Jacob should reconsider his/her notion of the beast. That was not Richard's wife in the belly of the Black Rock. Smokey's promise that they would be reunited was likely, too, just so much of its originator's substance- smoke. Jacob, meanwhile, stands apart from human affairs, allowing souls to be claimed- and it now appears that souls really are being claimed in some fashion- by his enemy, all the while advocating the notion of free will.

QuoteYeah. The Abridged Version of Job pretty much comes out to: "God and Satan totally dick with this one guy's world to see if he'll keep the faith or curse God. Job doesn't, God says 'Good job!' and gives him a ton of new stuff to replace all the old stuff he wrecked up."

QuoteJacob clearly is not a totally infallible god - he was pretty crabby when Richard first found him, and not in a "godlike wrath" kind of way.

And apparently in his big experiment to prove a point about humanity, it had never occurred to him that avoiding interaction with people meant that the Man in Black would get to them first. I guess everyone can thank Richard for Jacob's habit of going out and touching people.

QuoteWhen Jesus told Peter that he was going to set up the church on Earth because Jesus would be too busy appearing on toast and giving gold tablets to Joseph Smith, his words were "You will be the rock upon which I build my church." And Richard arrived on a (black) rock.

QuoteFurther, St. Peter also denied knowing/following Jesus three times on the night of his death before the cock crowed. Richard says "Does the offer still stand?" three times out loud before Hurley (Hurley... bird?) shows up.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 25, 2010, 06:52:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg5OxQlj5zY
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 26, 2010, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 24, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

Disagreed. I think Richard HAD to be put through the ringer like he was (could things have been much worse for him when the Man in Black finally showed up?) in order to make it REALISTIC that he'd be so susceptible to the machinations of Smokey & Jacob. And in turn to make it all the more impressive that his faith was so deep that he turned down Smokey's awesome offer even after all the awful shit he'd just been through. Richard is the man.

I completely agree with Tank in being surprised in a good way at how much was spelled out last night. I may be slightly more skeptical on Jacob as a reliable narrator in regards to the island as cork analogy. Maybe him and Smokey are both full of shit and they're just petulant wizards who enjoy toying with people. I also agree that the last few episodes are going to be character- and action-based instead of just a laundry list of answers. Which will be fun.

I'm surprised Weebs hasn't complained about the realism of a wooden boat breaking a statute.

Finally got to see it last night. What a fantastic episode. Even though I kept hearing how awesome it was, it was still even more awesome. Totally shocked by the amount of info we got.

But, since it would be totally out of character to not point out a couple things I didn't like...

1. Seriously...you guys got that wrapped up in the Isabelle/Ricardo scene? The only thing missing from that scene was Whoopi Goldberg. The scene was gayer than Thrill's assless chaps.

2. So, if Jacob is so committed to his douchestance of "let's just see how it all plays out" then why is he going around touching everyone and meddling all the time?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 26, 2010, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 26, 2010, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 24, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

Disagreed. I think Richard HAD to be put through the ringer like he was (could things have been much worse for him when the Man in Black finally showed up?) in order to make it REALISTIC that he'd be so susceptible to the machinations of Smokey & Jacob. And in turn to make it all the more impressive that his faith was so deep that he turned down Smokey's awesome offer even after all the awful shit he'd just been through. Richard is the man.

I completely agree with Tank in being surprised in a good way at how much was spelled out last night. I may be slightly more skeptical on Jacob as a reliable narrator in regards to the island as cork analogy. Maybe him and Smokey are both full of shit and they're just petulant wizards who enjoy toying with people. I also agree that the last few episodes are going to be character- and action-based instead of just a laundry list of answers. Which will be fun.

I'm surprised Weebs hasn't complained about the realism of a wooden boat breaking a statute.

Finally got to see it last night. What a fantastic episode. Even though I kept hearing how awesome it was, it was still even more awesome. Totally shocked by the amount of info we got.

But, since it would be totally out of character to not point out a couple things I didn't like...

1. Seriously...you guys got that wrapped up in the Isabelle/Ricardo scene? The only thing missing from that scene was Whoopi Goldberg. The scene was gayer than Thrill's assless chaps.

2. So, if Jacob is so committed to his douchestance of "let's just see how it all plays out" then why is he going around touching everyone and meddling all the time?

As I understand it, the meddling you speak of was to get them to come to the island. Then once they got there it was hands off.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: morpheus on March 26, 2010, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 26, 2010, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 24, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

Disagreed. I think Richard HAD to be put through the ringer like he was (could things have been much worse for him when the Man in Black finally showed up?) in order to make it REALISTIC that he'd be so susceptible to the machinations of Smokey & Jacob. And in turn to make it all the more impressive that his faith was so deep that he turned down Smokey's awesome offer even after all the awful shit he'd just been through. Richard is the man.

I completely agree with Tank in being surprised in a good way at how much was spelled out last night. I may be slightly more skeptical on Jacob as a reliable narrator in regards to the island as cork analogy. Maybe him and Smokey are both full of shit and they're just petulant wizards who enjoy toying with people. I also agree that the last few episodes are going to be character- and action-based instead of just a laundry list of answers. Which will be fun.

I'm surprised Weebs hasn't complained about the realism of a wooden boat breaking a statute.

Finally got to see it last night. What a fantastic episode. Even though I kept hearing how awesome it was, it was still even more awesome. Totally shocked by the amount of info we got.

But, since it would be totally out of character to not point out a couple things I didn't like...

1. Seriously...you guys got that wrapped up in the Isabelle/Ricardo scene? The only thing missing from that scene was Whoopi Goldberg. The scene was gayer than Thrill's assless chaps.

2. So, if Jacob is so committed to his douchestance of "let's just see how it all plays out" then why is he going around touching everyone and meddling all the time?

As opposed to "assed chaps"? 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 26, 2010, 01:44:58 PM
Quote from: morpheus on March 26, 2010, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 26, 2010, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: R-V on March 24, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 24, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 24, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
I actually think it was one of my favorite episodes of the series.  Certainly my favorite of this season.  Nestor Carbonell (really?) is a hell of an actor, and I thought Ricardo's story was terrific.  If the scene with Hurley initially translating for Isabella didn't bring you to tears, then you're as heartless as Milton Bradley.

While I didn't cry, I did feel myself wrapped up into the emotion. It was powerful. To see him leaning forward to hopefully get something, a touch, a gust of wind that he thought was her, was really good. Ok, maybe I'm crying now, but yea. Last night's episode was the shit. I am kind of like Dubbs in thinking they didn't need to draw out Ricardo being in the boat, but I found the scene with the boar entertaining. Those fucks have been torturing people (one that comes to mind was Sawyer and the boar that was out to get him) since the 1800s apparently. Hell, it might have been the same boar.

Disagreed. I think Richard HAD to be put through the ringer like he was (could things have been much worse for him when the Man in Black finally showed up?) in order to make it REALISTIC that he'd be so susceptible to the machinations of Smokey & Jacob. And in turn to make it all the more impressive that his faith was so deep that he turned down Smokey's awesome offer even after all the awful shit he'd just been through. Richard is the man.

I completely agree with Tank in being surprised in a good way at how much was spelled out last night. I may be slightly more skeptical on Jacob as a reliable narrator in regards to the island as cork analogy. Maybe him and Smokey are both full of shit and they're just petulant wizards who enjoy toying with people. I also agree that the last few episodes are going to be character- and action-based instead of just a laundry list of answers. Which will be fun.

I'm surprised Weebs hasn't complained about the realism of a wooden boat breaking a statute.

Finally got to see it last night. What a fantastic episode. Even though I kept hearing how awesome it was, it was still even more awesome. Totally shocked by the amount of info we got.

But, since it would be totally out of character to not point out a couple things I didn't like...

1. Seriously...you guys got that wrapped up in the Isabelle/Ricardo scene? The only thing missing from that scene was Whoopi Goldberg. The scene was gayer than Thrill's assless chaps.

2. So, if Jacob is so committed to his douchestance of "let's just see how it all plays out" then why is he going around touching everyone and meddling all the time?

As opposed to "assed chaps"? 

Either sounds pretty good right now.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Canadouche on March 26, 2010, 06:09:55 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 24, 2010, 11:19:47 AM
Anyone who thought that episode sucked or was just "OK" can lick a taint.

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I wonder if when he saw Isabella when he was chained up, that was her or smokey?

That was Smokey. Just like when Alex appeared to Ben last season.

But Alex was dead on the island, so smokey could take her body.  Isabella was dead back in teh spainland.

True. Hmmm.

One theory I've seen is that when Smokey meets you for the first time, it reads your memories and is able to play off of them.  I think in a couple of cases we've seen it approach a character, have a few electric bursts, and go away ... soon thereafter, dead people start showing up.

One small plot-hole, though, is that once Smokey became Locke he was no longer able to be anybody else ... but Locke took Ben into the temple, disappeared, and "Alex/Smokey" told Ben not to screw with Locke.  Either Alex wasn't Smokey or they made a mistake.

As for this week's ep, I liked it quite a bit and found it a refreshing revealer of information, but there were some pretty big plot holes.  Not to be a dick, but ...

Ricardo traveled "half a day" to reach the doctor.  He got there at night.  When the butler left he told the Doc where he came from and before the butler got back he killed the doc.  After he ran off -- after never telling the butler who he was or where he came from -- he showed up back home still in the night, still in the pouring rain, and yet they not only managed to follow him but they arrived just in time to arrest him after he discovers his dead wife?  Shenanigans.

The slave blindfold?  You could clearly see Ricardo's face though it before they finished wrapping it around his head.  Not very serviceable as a blindfold.  Shenanigans.  

The pirate ship -- a big piece of nailed-together wood -- smashing a huge stone statue?  Shenanigans.  Speaking of which -- how could a wooden boat survive more than 100 years in a jungle (see: rain forest) without completely rotting and falling apart?  Must be the magic of the island.

The nail that Ricardo dropped but couldn't reach -- as he struggled to grab it, I thought "his legs must be chained up, too, or else he could reach it with his feet."  Nope, turns out I was wrong, his legs weren't chained and he certainly could've used them to grab the nail.  Shenanigans.  

And how could the cross Richard buried have still been there after more than 100 years?  With all the rain and erosion, I would've thought it might've been either more deeply buried or even washed away.  Shenanigans.

Ignoring my bitch fest, if the island is the cork and in the alternate reality there is no island, then I have to suspect that Smokey is free.  If he is free, then perhaps we'll see Alternate Earth go to Hell in the coming episodes ... that's my present guess, anyway.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 30, 2010, 08:50:13 PM
Who else has their money on "the package" being Desmond?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on March 30, 2010, 09:31:44 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 30, 2010, 08:50:13 PM
Who else has their money on "the package" being Desmond?

If I had seen this earlier, I would have doubled down on that.

Also, I'm going to go TDubbs and say that next episode will be incredible.  Anything involving Desmond instantly makes this show better.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on March 31, 2010, 06:54:37 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on March 30, 2010, 08:50:13 PM
Who else has their money on "the package" being Desmond?

So was Charles Widmore's past interactions with Desmond some sort of test to see if he is ready to handle what's to come? It seemed that Charles' was trying to get Desmond to constantly prove himself apparently knowing full well about smokey and Desmond's importance.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 31, 2010, 08:47:11 AM
The scene with Widmore and Smokey was awesome. Looking forward to their next confrontation. I like that Widmore seems to know just as much as we do (not a whole lot) about what exactly Smokey is. So NotTinaFey is a geophysicist...are they trying to set some sort of trap for Smokey involving the electromagnetic pockets?

That fucking red V in the corner of my teevee was infuriating.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on March 31, 2010, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 31, 2010, 08:47:11 AM
The scene with Widmore and Smokey was awesome. Looking forward to their next confrontation. I like that Widmore seems to know just as much as we do (not a whole lot) about what exactly Smokey is. So NotTinaFey is a geophysicist...are they trying to set some sort of trap for Smokey involving the electromagnetic pockets?

That fucking red V in the corner of my teevee was infuriating.

THIS.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 31, 2010, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 31, 2010, 08:47:11 AM
The scene with Widmore and Smokey was awesome. Looking forward to their next confrontation. I like that Widmore seems to know just as much as we do (not a whole lot) about what exactly Smokey is. So NotTinaFey is a geophysicist...are they trying to set some sort of trap for Smokey involving the electromagnetic pockets?

That fucking red V in the corner of my teevee was infuriating.

Think Desmond is one of those traps b/c he turned that key a few seasons ago?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on March 31, 2010, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: Waco Kid on March 31, 2010, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 31, 2010, 08:47:11 AM
The scene with Widmore and Smokey was awesome. Looking forward to their next confrontation. I like that Widmore seems to know just as much as we do (not a whole lot) about what exactly Smokey is. So NotTinaFey is a geophysicist...are they trying to set some sort of trap for Smokey involving the electromagnetic pockets?

That fucking red V in the corner of my teevee was infuriating.

THIS.

Double THIS.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 31, 2010, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 31, 2010, 08:47:11 AM
The scene with Widmore and Smokey was awesome. Looking forward to their next confrontation. I like that Widmore seems to know just as much as we do (not a whole lot) about what exactly Smokey is. So NotTinaFey is a geophysicist...are they trying to set some sort of trap for Smokey involving the electromagnetic pockets?

That fucking red V in the corner of my teevee was infuriating.

Think Desmond is one of those traps b/c he turned that key a few seasons ago?

This is the least-retarded thing you've ever said.  Who told you to say it?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on March 31, 2010, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 31, 2010, 08:58:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on March 31, 2010, 08:47:11 AM
The scene with Widmore and Smokey was awesome. Looking forward to their next confrontation. I like that Widmore seems to know just as much as we do (not a whole lot) about what exactly Smokey is. So NotTinaFey is a geophysicist...are they trying to set some sort of trap for Smokey involving the electromagnetic pockets?

That fucking red V in the corner of my teevee was infuriating.

Think Desmond is one of those traps b/c he turned that key a few seasons ago?

This is the least-retarded thing you've ever said.  Who told you to say it?

Me brain.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 31, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

"I think she said she doesn't want to go"
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 31, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

"I think she said she doesn't want to go"

Bingo.  Didn't he basically mutter it?  Maybe even off-camera?  It wasn't as much the line, but that it seemed so off-the-cuff.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 31, 2010, 03:16:16 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 31, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

"I think she said she doesn't want to go"

Bingo.  Didn't he basically mutter it?  Maybe even off-camera?  It wasn't as much the line, but that it seemed so off-the-cuff.

I fully expected it. As I saw her lips moving so fast, spewing out that foreign shit, inviting me to facefuck the shit out of her, getting all hot and bother... where was I? Oh, yea. Seeing Miles and him in the background gave me a good feeling that something like that was gonna get sayed.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on March 31, 2010, 07:58:06 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

The other funny thing was when Miles was incredulous that Sun just forgot English and Lapidas turned to him and said, "says the guy who talks to dead people".

Is anyone else irritated by NotTinaFey beyond all rationality? She's more annoying than a skeleton jacking off on a tin roof. I hate her.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on April 01, 2010, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 31, 2010, 07:58:06 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

The other funny thing was when Miles was incredulous that Sun just forgot English and Lapidas turned to him and said, "says the guy who talks to dead people".

Is anyone else irritated by NotTinaFey beyond all rationality? She's more annoying than a skeleton jacking off on a tin roof. I hate her.

She's terrible in every conceivable way.  But she does have massive tits.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on April 01, 2010, 11:22:05 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 01, 2010, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 31, 2010, 07:58:06 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

The other funny thing was when Miles was incredulous that Sun just forgot English and Lapidas turned to him and said, "says the guy who talks to dead people".

Is anyone else irritated by NotTinaFey beyond all rationality? She's more annoying than a skeleton jacking off on a tin roof. I hate her.

She's terrible in every conceivable way.  But she does have massive tits.

Richard Schiff married well.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 01, 2010, 11:22:05 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 01, 2010, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 31, 2010, 07:58:06 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

The other funny thing was when Miles was incredulous that Sun just forgot English and Lapidas turned to him and said, "says the guy who talks to dead people".

Is anyone else irritated by NotTinaFey beyond all rationality? She's more annoying than a skeleton jacking off on a tin roof. I hate her.

She's terrible in every conceivable way.  But she does have massive tits.

Richard Schiff married well.

Looking at her page on IMDb, it says she appeared on Conan a few years ago and I was curious why.

Guess it was probably for pole-dancing. (http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on April 01, 2010, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
Looking at her page on IMDb, it says she appeared on Conan a few years ago and I was curious why.

Guess it was probably for pole-dancing. (http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp)

What kind of ding-a-ling allows her own name to be misspelled in the title bar of a self-promotion site?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on April 01, 2010, 12:24:57 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on April 01, 2010, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
Looking at her page on IMDb, it says she appeared on Conan a few years ago and I was curious why.

Guess it was probably for pole-dancing. (http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp)

What kind of ding-a-ling allows her own name to be misspelled in the title bar of a self-promotion site?

The geophysicist kind!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on April 01, 2010, 12:31:48 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 01, 2010, 12:24:57 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on April 01, 2010, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
Looking at her page on IMDb, it says she appeared on Conan a few years ago and I was curious why.

Guess it was probably for pole-dancing. (http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp)

What kind of ding-a-ling allows her own name to be misspelled in the title bar of a self-promotion site?

The geophysicist kind!

I hope she dies in a grease fire.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 01, 2010, 01:40:30 PM
Quote from: Slaky on April 01, 2010, 12:31:48 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 01, 2010, 12:24:57 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on April 01, 2010, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
Looking at her page on IMDb, it says she appeared on Conan a few years ago and I was curious why.

Guess it was probably for pole-dancing. (http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp)

What kind of ding-a-ling allows her own name to be misspelled in the title bar of a self-promotion site?

The geophysicist kind!

I hope she dies in a grease fire.

Just sit her on top of Sayid's head and light a match.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 03:12:14 PM
It looks like shit's finally started to hit the fan in the alt timeline.

I think (hope) we're gonna now start to see more crossover shit-fan action. Think: alt Kate's not so fortuitous run-in with alt Sawyer a couple weeks ago. Maybe there's a run-in with alt Cholly on the horizon, too.

I don't know how all of this will collide with the island timeline, but I'm still convinced it will. (Pen posted something in the SBox yesterday about Sun's inability to speak English maybe being a sort of "leak" between the two timelines, which I kind of like.)

But I'm also still stuck on my notion (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg206648#msg206648) of the Losties (whether it's the island versions or the alt versions) being asked to "sacrifice" their alt timeline lives in order to save the non-alt world.

In the teaser for next week, I even recall hearing someone (was it Widmore?) telling someone else (possibly Desmond?) that they would have to make a sacrifice for the island.

So, reading over some of the stuff I've posted earlier this season, one thing that jumps out at me is the stuff about Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac, as related in the Kierkegaard book (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg204355#msg204355) we saw the French temple corpse holding.

TDubbs is gonna love this...

Obviously, Lost's "man of faith" for much of the series was Locke.

And I think it's just as clear that, ever since he lost his shit off-island, Jack has taken up that mantle. He finally gave himself over to the island after the incident at the lighthouse. We saw this in his chat with Alpert on the Black Rock. When he closed his eyes as the fuse burned, I sensed that, while he believed he would live, he was willing to die at that moment.

Well, Kierkegaard's big thing was, appropriately, irrational faith. In Fear and Trembling, he wrote about Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac at God's command and the "absurd" faith in God it required:

http://www.ccel.org/k/kierkegaard/selections/trembling.htm

Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 03:43:37 PM
QuoteInfinite resignation is the last stage which goes before faith, so that every one who has not made the movement of infinite resignation cannot have faith...

Abraham resigns himself to the will of God. To Kierkegaard, this "movement of infinite resignation" is a logical, ethical act: a resignation of the self for something greater. But it is not yet an act of faith.

What characterizes the "movement of faith" as an act of faith is the absurdity of Abraham's conviction that somehow, even as he sacrifices the thing that means the most to him (because God commanded it), he will yet get it all back "by virtue of the absurd, by virtue of the act that to God nothing is impossible."

"Abraham ascended the mountain and whilst the knife already gleamed in his hand he believed—that God would not demand Isaac of him."

This absurd "movement of faith" is what Kierkegaard thinks is the most admirable thing ever, even if he can't totally wrap his mind around it himself.

In Lost terms, think of Cholly sacrificing his life to save everyone else (or Desmond's sacrifice, for that matter, or Juliet's).

Cholly resigns himself to giving up his life as the price of saving Claire. That's a "movement of infinite resignation," a logical and ethical act. Had he done this with an absurd belief that he would somehow still be able to have Claire afterwards, that would be a "movement of faith."

I think.

So, questions: Have we seen anyone make this kind of "movement of faith" on Lost? And would this sort of faith be a prerequisite for being the final candidate?

All that fun stuff out of the way, here's what really caught my eye in my previous post:

Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 03, 2010, 03:43:37 PM
QuoteIf Abraham had doubted, when standing on Mount Moriah; if he had looked about him in perplexity; if he had accidentally discovered the ram before drawing his knife; if God had permitted him to sacrifice it instead of Isaac—then would he have returned home, and all would have been as before, he would have had Sarah and would have kept Isaac; and yet how different all would have been!

So, a speculative thought: David Shephard's mother is Sarah/Julie Bowen. (Boring.)

Even more speculative: Jack (island or alt) will be asked to "sacrifice" his son, which he willingly does, while believing that he's somehow not sacrificing him at all.

Would this make Jack the final candidate? I guess it might. (Boring again.)

I'm not sure I really like that, of course, because he's the guy we probably most suspect. And we all know it's more likely to be whoever we medium suspect.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on April 01, 2010, 03:23:34 PM
I know, in the teaser, Widmore said to someone (probably Des) "the island isn't done with you yet."

Maybe that's what you heard?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 03:30:23 PM
Quote from: Slaky on April 01, 2010, 03:23:34 PM
I know, in the teaser, Widmore said to someone (probably Des) "the island isn't done with you yet."

Maybe that's what you heard?

I heard that, too. An explicit echo of what Hawking told Desmond last season. (And maybe what Michael was told when he wasn't allowed to die.)

But I'm pretty sure I heard the word "sacrifice" at some point.

At any rate... I'm out. See you losers in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on April 01, 2010, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 03:12:14 PM
So, questions: Have we seen anyone make this kind of "movement of faith" on Lost? And would this sort of faith be a prerequisite for being the final candidate?

(http://thelaymansanswerstoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/SawyerJump.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on April 01, 2010, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on April 01, 2010, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 03:12:14 PM
So, questions: Have we seen anyone make this kind of "movement of faith" on Lost? And would this sort of faith be a prerequisite for being the final candidate?

(http://thelaymansanswerstoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/SawyerJump.jpg)

Nice. Also, what about Jin staying behind on the freighter and supposedly blowing up but not dying? Hmm?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on April 01, 2010, 03:49:47 PM
Quote from: Slaky on April 01, 2010, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on April 01, 2010, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 03:12:14 PM
So, questions: Have we seen anyone make this kind of "movement of faith" on Lost? And would this sort of faith be a prerequisite for being the final candidate?

(http://thelaymansanswerstoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/SawyerJump.jpg)

Nice. Also, what about Jin staying behind on the freighter and supposedly blowing up but not dying? Hmm?

My first thought as well. But was that intentional though? I remember him trying to get on the chopper at the end, but Lapidus had to go.

Speaking of Lapidus, I read somewhere, makes a lot of sense...if Richard is hellbent on destroying the Ajira flight so Smokey can't leave, why not just kill Lapidus?
He's the only dude who can fly the plane.

Seems like a reasonably casualty of war.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Saul Goodman on April 01, 2010, 04:36:48 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 01, 2010, 11:22:05 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 01, 2010, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 31, 2010, 07:58:06 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

The other funny thing was when Miles was incredulous that Sun just forgot English and Lapidas turned to him and said, "says the guy who talks to dead people".

Is anyone else irritated by NotTinaFey beyond all rationality? She's more annoying than a skeleton jacking off on a tin roof. I hate her.

She's terrible in every conceivable way.  But she does have massive tits.

Richard Schiff married well.

Looking at her page on IMDb, it says she appeared on Conan a few years ago and I was curious why.

Guess it was probably for pole-dancing. (http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp)

What's happening here? (http://www.celebritydietdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/sheila-kelley.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on April 01, 2010, 04:58:22 PM
Quote from: Day Man on April 01, 2010, 04:36:48 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 01, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 01, 2010, 11:22:05 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 01, 2010, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: Slaky on March 31, 2010, 07:58:06 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

The other funny thing was when Miles was incredulous that Sun just forgot English and Lapidas turned to him and said, "says the guy who talks to dead people".

Is anyone else irritated by NotTinaFey beyond all rationality? She's more annoying than a skeleton jacking off on a tin roof. I hate her.

She's terrible in every conceivable way.  But she does have massive tits.

Richard Schiff married well.

Looking at her page on IMDb, it says she appeared on Conan a few years ago and I was curious why.

Guess it was probably for pole-dancing. (http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp)

What's happening here? (http://www.celebritydietdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/sheila-kelley.jpg)

Urge to hate: falling.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 01, 2010, 09:45:32 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 31, 2010, 03:16:16 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 31, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

"I think she said she doesn't want to go"

Bingo.  Didn't he basically mutter it?  Maybe even off-camera?  It wasn't as much the line, but that it seemed so off-the-cuff.

I fully expected it. As I saw her lips moving so fast, spewing out that foreign shit, inviting me to facefuck the shit out of her, getting all hot and bother... where was I? Oh, yea. Seeing Miles and him in the background gave me a good feeling that something like that was gonna get sayed.

Miles also said about Hurley tracking down Alpert:  "Unless he's covered in bacon grease, Hugo isn't tracking down anything."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on April 02, 2010, 11:24:49 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 01, 2010, 09:45:32 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 31, 2010, 03:16:16 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: Yeti on March 31, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on March 31, 2010, 02:47:19 PM
I don't remember the last time I've laughed out loud at Lost, but there were several genuinely funny moments this episode.

SAWYER:  Why don't you just turn into black smoke and fly over to the other island?
FLOCKE:  If I could do that, do you really think I would still be on this island?
SAWYER:  Yeah, because that would be RIDICULOUS.

BEN:  For the last time, she was unconscious when I found her!  Why don't you believe me?
ILANNA:  Because you're talking.

Hurley also had a great line on the beach which I can't recall.  But I recall the laughter.  Oh, the laughter.

"I think she said she doesn't want to go"

Bingo.  Didn't he basically mutter it?  Maybe even off-camera?  It wasn't as much the line, but that it seemed so off-the-cuff.

I fully expected it. As I saw her lips moving so fast, spewing out that foreign shit, inviting me to facefuck the shit out of her, getting all hot and bother... where was I? Oh, yea. Seeing Miles and him in the background gave me a good feeling that something like that was gonna get sayed.

Miles also said about Hurley tracking down Alpert:  "Unless he's covered in bacon grease, Hugo isn't tracking down anything."

Yes.  That was definitely the best line of the episode.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on April 06, 2010, 08:51:56 PM
It's not done yet and still on commercial, but I hope you fuckers got boners like I did when Daniel said "We need to talk"
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 06, 2010, 09:13:43 PM
Quote from: Yeti on April 06, 2010, 08:51:56 PM
It's not done yet and still on commercial, but I hope you fuckers got boners like I did when Daniel said "We need to talk"

Titsteaks slathered in breast milk. This show is going to go out with a bang.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on April 06, 2010, 09:26:42 PM
Episodes that focus around Desmond are absolute money. All kinds of awesome tonight.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on April 07, 2010, 08:53:29 AM
A couple stray questions that I thought of while reading some reviews... They're a little unrelated, and *might* have been discussed in Season 5, but I think they could be new.

1.   Ben is unable to kill Widmore. I'm thinking back to an interaction they had in Widmore's room a couple seasons ago. This would have to be a parallel to Smokey-Jacob, right? And wouldn't Ben fit the "Smokey" in that and Widmore is "Jacob"? It could be nothing, but maybe somehow that foreshadows who they were going to be aligned with? Ben's path was derailed by Alana (That's her name, right?) in "Dr. Linus".

2.   Also, Jacob brings people to the island. We could presume that he was going to bring the 815ers to the island. How did he actually get them there? They crashed because Desmond was curious as to what his partner was doing, ended up killing him, and was late to push the button. (Also, a stray thought, if Desmond was truly trying to save the world by doing that, then it appears he might be doing it again.) Should we believe that Jacob knew it was going to happen? Or that he somehow influenced Desmond to do that when he never met him?

Random thoughts, but I thought they were intriguing.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 07, 2010, 10:00:52 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 07, 2010, 08:53:29 AMAlso, Jacob brings people to the island. We could presume that he was going to bring the 815ers to the island. How did he actually get them there?

He touched a lot of people.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on April 07, 2010, 10:09:08 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on February 03, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
What did Juliet mean when she said "it worked"?  This is the biggest mystery to me.

Since Charlie seemed to know of the alt-timeline, when he was about to die (Choking on the heroin), this was probably the same for her (and Desmond, even though Desmond is a bit different)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on April 07, 2010, 10:55:31 AM
Fucking steakballs episode, as every Desmond episode is.
Top 5 episodes in the show, probably 4 are Desmond-centric.

Not sure it matters that much, but who the hell is Penny's mom?

And how come all the Widmore spawn/wives have different last names?
Widmore, Farraday, Hawking, Milton?

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on April 07, 2010, 10:58:50 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on March 05, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
I'd like to know what the deal with Christian is.
I'd like to see more Desmond before this series ends.
What's with the alt timeline? Is it all because of Jughead blowing up and if so, how far back did that change things (like if it only changed things after that, why is Ben substitute teaching) (Not sure we can totally cross this off)
What are those 4-toed statues (okay, maybe I don't really care about this)
How does Flocke turn into the smoke monster and what the hell is it? (I think this one is well enough covered)
What's up with Richard? Why doesn't he age? Is he just a patsy this whole time, following orders? (Sounds like this may get some play next week)
Why do all the women who become pregnant on the island have problems (pretty sure this isn't getting answered and it's just accepted as fact)
Do Adam and Eve have any relevance/more importance?
Does Vincent time travel too?
Have we seen the last of Walt? (I assume so)
What favor did Jacob ask of Ilana? (This is "protect the candidates, right?)
Who is that kid who said Flocke couldn't kill him b/c of the rules? Who's rules? Who can't he kill?

Updated.
5 episodes to go...pretty awesome season.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 07, 2010, 11:10:49 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on April 07, 2010, 10:55:31 AM
Fucking steakballs episode, as every Desmond episode is.
Top 5 episodes in the show, probably 4 are Desmond-centric.

Not sure it matters that much, but who the hell is Penny's mom?

And how come all the Widmore spawn/wives have different last names?
Widmore, Farraday, Hawking, Milton?

Retcon explanation: Widmore & Hawking never married in the original timeline. Hawking made up a father named Faraday for Dan so he wouldn't know Widmore was his real dad.

More likely explanation: the writers wanted to hold off on revealing that Faraday was the spawn of Widmore and Hawking, and the name change made that a lot easier.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 07, 2010, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 07, 2010, 11:10:49 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on April 07, 2010, 10:55:31 AM
Fucking steakballs episode, as every Desmond episode is.
Top 5 episodes in the show, probably 4 are Desmond-centric.

Not sure it matters that much, but who the hell is Penny's mom?

And how come all the Widmore spawn/wives have different last names?
Widmore, Farraday, Hawking, Milton?

Retcon explanation: Widmore & Hawking never married in the original timeline. Hawking made up a father named Faraday for Dan so he wouldn't know Widmore was his real dad.

More likely explanation: the writers wanted to hold off on revealing that Faraday was the spawn of Widmore and Hawking, and the name change made that a lot easier.

I wonder if Eloise will kill Daniel in the sideways timeline too?

Penny's mom was just some random from off the island.  She was the reason that Ben was able to kick Widmore off the island.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on April 07, 2010, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 07, 2010, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 07, 2010, 11:10:49 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on April 07, 2010, 10:55:31 AM
Fucking steakballs episode, as every Desmond episode is.
Top 5 episodes in the show, probably 4 are Desmond-centric.

Not sure it matters that much, but who the hell is Penny's mom?

And how come all the Widmore spawn/wives have different last names?
Widmore, Farraday, Hawking, Milton?

Retcon explanation: Widmore & Hawking never married in the original timeline. Hawking made up a father named Faraday for Dan so he wouldn't know Widmore was his real dad.

More likely explanation: the writers wanted to hold off on revealing that Faraday was the spawn of Widmore and Hawking, and the name change made that a lot easier.

I wonder if Eloise will kill Daniel in the sideways timeline too?

Penny's mom was just some random from off the island.  She was the reason that Ben was able to kick Widmore off the island.

After 5 1/2 seasons I think it's safe to say that no one is just random.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 07, 2010, 12:20:05 PM
I like this idea.

QuoteIn the original universe, Eloise clearly believed that setting off the bomb would create an alternate reality. She became fixed on helping the Losties detonate it so that there would exist a world in which her son would live. In order to ensure that her son in this world did what he said he would do, and that the bomb would be set off, she did everything in her power to keep the timeline just as it appeared in Daniel's journal. She rounded up Des, sent the O6 back, and generally policed reality. All of it was in order to bring about a world in which a version of her son lived and was happy. Somehow, AlternaEloise seems to know all of this.

Now, perhaps she created the alt timeline somehow, and she is carefully making sure it stays in place. Everything she has done has been to keep her son alive. And the fates of our characters are not meant to be their ideal fates, or what they want, but what will prevent them from interfereing with whatever is holding it together.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on April 07, 2010, 12:21:59 PM
Quote from: R-V on April 07, 2010, 12:20:05 PM
I like this idea.

QuoteIn the original universe, Eloise clearly believed that setting off the bomb would create an alternate reality. She became fixed on helping the Losties detonate it so that there would exist a world in which her son would live. In order to ensure that her son in this world did what he said he would do, and that the bomb would be set off, she did everything in her power to keep the timeline just as it appeared in Daniel's journal. She rounded up Des, sent the O6 back, and generally policed reality. All of it was in order to bring about a world in which a version of her son lived and was happy. Somehow, AlternaEloise seems to know all of this.

Now, perhaps she created the alt timeline somehow, and she is carefully making sure it stays in place. Everything she has done has been to keep her son alive. And the fates of our characters are not meant to be their ideal fates, or what they want, but what will prevent them from interfereing with whatever is holding it together.

Agreed, seems very consistent with what we know about Eloise and her agendas.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 07, 2010, 12:36:29 PM
More commenters that are smarter than me...

QuoteYeah, it seems to me that sometime after she shot Daniel, she was approached by MIB and made a deal, that deal being she gets Daniel back, and was taking instructions from him up until the alt world got created.

QuoteDes has the flashes to the original universe because he's "special." What do Daniel and Charlie have in common? Oh yes, they're dead. Maybe if you're dead in the real world, you are more conscious of that world in the alternate universe. Desmond really SHOULD have died when he turned the key, but he didn't.

QuoteBUT, as we saw in tonight's episode, Desmond wants everyone in alterna-world to embrace their "feelings" in an attempt to cross over to the other world. The big question is why would they cross over? I know a lot of people seem to hate the "true love" answer, but I think it's a bit deeper than that, because not every character has a Penny or a Charlotte; instead, I think what Desmond and Charlie and Daniel saw in their "visions" of the real timeline was something authentic that they cared about that they chose to care about. Those three characters are all great examples because they all desperately care about something (Charlie's band, Daniel's work and Desmond's Widmore-relationship) that isn't really what they want to care about. All three find, though their respective ladies, something that they chose to love that wasn't pressed upon them, or wasn't their "fate" or "destiny." They aren't choosing true love as much as they are making their own choice everything else be damned. Viewed that way, it seems a bit more meaningful than just "love conquers all," at least to me.

In tonight's episode Desmond tells Charlie "You always have a choice, brotha," and I think that is the line that defines this season. There are men of science, men of faith and then men of action, who don't need to rationalize their choices to themselves because the most important action they can do is to exercise that ability to make a choice--not just that, but to accept the consequences of those choices (because a big theme of 'Lost' is regret, self-loathing and apathy induced by a perceived lack of control) even if they are incredibly difficult to live with (such as Desmond choosing his death over life with Penny and/or the bachelor's life).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on April 12, 2010, 02:39:32 PM
I don't think anyone posted this yet, so here's the clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JI4Lb9YEf8) of the conversation between Desmond and Faraday.

Pay particularly close attention to the background behind Desmond, which you'll notice changes at the 2:56 and 3:47 marks.

Foreshadowing an Alt Desmond trip to the Island?
Unlikely, since then he might run into himself backstage before he plays Johnny B. Goode, but needless to say...interesting.

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on April 12, 2010, 03:05:45 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on April 12, 2010, 02:39:32 PM
I don't think anyone posted this yet, so here's the clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JI4Lb9YEf8) of the conversation between Desmond and Faraday.

Pay particularly close attention to the background behind Desmond, which you'll notice changes at the 2:56 and 3:47 marks.

Foreshadowing an Alt Desmond trip to the Island?
Unlikely, since then he might run into himself backstage before he plays Johnny B. Goode, but needless to say...interesting.



Where are you seeing a background change?  They're just changing the angle of where the camera is setup.  You can see it pan from whatever is initially behind him (rocks or brick or something like that) over to some trees past his left shoulder just before that 2:56 mark.  There was always green behind Desmond, but you just don't really see it because they have the camera setup further in front of him.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on April 12, 2010, 03:15:26 PM
Quote from: Weebs on April 12, 2010, 03:05:45 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on April 12, 2010, 02:39:32 PM
I don't think anyone posted this yet, so here's the clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JI4Lb9YEf8) of the conversation between Desmond and Faraday.

Pay particularly close attention to the background behind Desmond, which you'll notice changes at the 2:56 and 3:47 marks.

Foreshadowing an Alt Desmond trip to the Island?
Unlikely, since then he might run into himself backstage before he plays Johnny B. Goode, but needless to say...interesting.



Where are you seeing a background change?  They're just changing the angle of where the camera is setup.  You can see it pan from whatever is initially behind him (rocks or brick or something like that) over to some trees past his left shoulder just before that 2:56 mark.  There was always green behind Desmond, but you just don't really see it because they have the camera setup further in front of him.

I'm with Weebs here. [Ducks down]
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on April 12, 2010, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: Yeti on April 12, 2010, 03:15:26 PM
Quote from: Weebs on April 12, 2010, 03:05:45 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on April 12, 2010, 02:39:32 PM
I don't think anyone posted this yet, so here's the clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JI4Lb9YEf8) of the conversation between Desmond and Faraday.

Pay particularly close attention to the background behind Desmond, which you'll notice changes at the 2:56 and 3:47 marks.

Foreshadowing an Alt Desmond trip to the Island?
Unlikely, since then he might run into himself backstage before he plays Johnny B. Goode, but needless to say...interesting.



Where are you seeing a background change?  They're just changing the angle of where the camera is setup.  You can see it pan from whatever is initially behind him (rocks or brick or something like that) over to some trees past his left shoulder just before that 2:56 mark.  There was always green behind Desmond, but you just don't really see it because they have the camera setup further in front of him.

I'm with Weebs here. [Ducks down]

Yeah, carry on.
Nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 13, 2010, 07:56:08 PM
One big thought occurred to me when watching last week's episode: the writers have said in the past that (contrary to the Man in Black's explanation to Alpert*) the island isn't Hell. But what if the alt timeline is hell? Now, as soon as I tried to explain this idea out loud to someone a week ago, it kind of fell apart for me, but I thought I'd still throw it out there.

At the very least, it seems like something the Losties need to "escape" from (perhaps a mirror of EvilLocke trying to escape the island).

Alt Cholly seems to consider his visions of the island timeline to be more "real" than the timeline he's in. Maybe it's like the Matrix, and Cholly gave Desmond the "red pill" (which Desmond is now ready to distribute to his fellow Oceanic 815 passengers).

Anyways... I just watched the last episode again on Hulu and have some other fresh-ish thoughts/questions.

First: What did AltEloise mean by "violation"?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Happily_Ever_After_transcript

QuoteSomeone has clearly affected the way you see things. This is a serious problem. It is, in fact, a violation.

Second: Did Desmond consciousness travel between timelines? ("A lot can happen in twenty minutes.") Or is he just "leaking" between timelines like it seemed like Sun might have been doing when she lost her ability to speak English, or like AltCholly and maybe Juliet did when they were near death, or like AltDaniel did when he suddenly knew quantum physics?

Could these possibly be the same thing?

Finally: Here's something I totally missed the first time that immediately caught my ear this time around:

QuoteTECHNICIAN: This machine is super loud. You're gonna want these. [Hands Desmond ear plugs and straps him to table.] And you need the button.

DESMOND: The button?

TECHNICIAN: The panic button. You need to stop, press it. Try not to 'cause we'll have to start all over again from the beginning. I'll be in that booth over there. You'll be able to hear me. Thirty minutes, okay?

Maybe it's just a tease by the writiers, but I found that intriguing.

*If this is not true, though, I think it would be the only time we've seen the Man in Black outright lie. So perhaps it's still somehow true "in a way" (a la Obi Wan) that the island is "Hell."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 13, 2010, 09:09:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iupbNAGVaJc#t=2m10s

QuoteRound the world and home again
That's the sailor's way

There's no earthly way of knowing
Which direction we are going
There's no knowing where we're rowing
Or which way the river's flowing

Is it raining, is it snowing
Is a hurricane a-blowing

Not a speck of light is showing
So the danger must be growing
Are the fires of Hell a-glowing
Is the grisly reaper mowing

Yes, the danger must be growing
For the rowers keep on rowing
And they're certainly not showing
Any signs that they are slowing
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on April 13, 2010, 11:31:56 PM
Goddamn it - that was one of the best episodes yet. I don't even know why, it just was.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on April 14, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
So, Desmond is matching up everything to the way it is/should be in the real universe?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 14, 2010, 06:41:36 AM
Quote from: Slaky on April 13, 2010, 11:31:56 PM
Goddamn it - that was one of the best episodes yet. I don't even know why, it just was.

Ilana getting Artz'd was outstanding. Que PenChuck to complain about how we didn't find out enough about her character.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 14, 2010, 08:04:14 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 06:41:36 AM
Quote from: Slaky on April 13, 2010, 11:31:56 PM
Goddamn it - that was one of the best episodes yet. I don't even know why, it just was.

Ilana getting Artz'd was outstanding. Que PenChuck to complain about how we didn't find out enough about her character.

It was pretty sweet.  Although am I the only one that thought it was kind of lame that they just repeating the Artzing?  They could have killed her in a way better way that hadn't been done before.  Either way, glad the island is done with her b/c she was pointless now.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on April 14, 2010, 08:32:19 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 14, 2010, 08:04:14 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 06:41:36 AM
Quote from: Slaky on April 13, 2010, 11:31:56 PM
Goddamn it - that was one of the best episodes yet. I don't even know why, it just was.

Ilana getting Artz'd was outstanding. Que PenChuck to complain about how we didn't find out enough about her character.

It was pretty sweet.  Although am I the only one that thought it was kind of lame that they just repeating the Artzing?  They could have killed her in a way better way that hadn't been done before.  Either way, glad the island is done with her b/c she was pointless now.

That's my 2 beefs with that death - rerun and what the hell was the point of the character?

And, enough with the cock teasing.  "Ask Jacob what the island is."  I thought the time for questions was over?  Don't do that anymore.

The idea of Philanthropic Hurley is excellent.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 14, 2010, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 14, 2010, 08:32:19 AM
And, enough with the cock teasing.  "Ask Jacob what the island is."  I thought the time for questions was over?  Don't do that anymore.

We already heard the answer to that question, Chuck.

Jacob told Alpert that the island is the cork in the wine bottle of evil.

That wasn't a cock tease. It was Alpert testing Hurley with something we already knew.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:11:49 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 14, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
So, Desmond is matching up everything to the way it is/should be in the real universe?

I don't really understand what you're asking. It seems to me that AltDesmond plowed into AltLocke either because:

- he thinks that the guy who pushed him down the well was actually Locke, and he's getting some sweet revenge or
- (more likely) he is sending Locke to the hospital to meet up with Jack, Jin, Sun and Cholly

AltDesmond telling Ben the teacher that he had a kid named Cholly seems to support the theory that Des is now aware of all alternate universes.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on April 14, 2010, 09:18:54 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 14, 2010, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 14, 2010, 08:32:19 AM
And, enough with the cock teasing.  "Ask Jacob what the island is."  I thought the time for questions was over?  Don't do that anymore.

We already heard the answer to that question, Chuck.

Jacob told Alpert that the island is the cork in the wine bottle of evil.

That wasn't a cock tease. It was Alpert testing Hurley with something we already knew.

Ah.  You is right. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on April 14, 2010, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:11:49 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 14, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
So, Desmond is matching up everything to the way it is/should be in the real universe?

I don't really understand what you're asking. It seems to me that AltDesmond plowed into AltLocke either because:

- he thinks that the guy who pushed him down the well was actually Locke, and he's getting some sweet revenge or
- (more likely) he is sending Locke to the hospital to meet up with Jack, Jin, Sun and Cholly

AltDesmond telling Ben the teacher that he had a kid named Cholly seems to support the theory that Des is now aware of all alternate universes.

I think if he's trying to reunite AltLocke with Jack, it's so he can finally get that surgery to fix his legs.  AltDesmond's goal seems to be to make everyone aware of the main universe, and they are doing that through whatever is their strongest connection with the island.  For AltHurley/Faraday/Desmond, it was meeting the women they loved.  With AltLocke, I would think he'll remember once he regains the ability to walk.  And I'm guessing AltJack and AltKate will remember whenever they meet each other.  Hopefully Sayid never remembers, so he can go on killing people.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:35:16 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 14, 2010, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:11:49 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 14, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
So, Desmond is matching up everything to the way it is/should be in the real universe?

I don't really understand what you're asking. It seems to me that AltDesmond plowed into AltLocke either because:

- he thinks that the guy who pushed him down the well was actually Locke, and he's getting some sweet revenge or
- (more likely) he is sending Locke to the hospital to meet up with Jack, Jin, Sun and Cholly

AltDesmond telling Ben the teacher that he had a kid named Cholly seems to support the theory that Des is now aware of all alternate universes.

I think if he's trying to reunite AltLocke with Jack, it's so he can finally get that surgery to fix his legs.  AltDesmond's goal seems to be to make everyone aware of the main universe, and they are doing that through whatever is their strongest connection with the island.  For AltHurley/Faraday/Desmond, it was meeting the women they loved.  With AltLocke, I would think he'll remember once he regains the ability to walk.  And I'm guessing AltJack and AltKate will remember whenever they meet each other.  Hopefully Sayid never remembers, so he can go on killing people.

They already bumped into each other on the Oceanic flight. Kate stole the pen out of Jack's pocket. I do like the idea about the leg fixing triggering Locke's memories.

Totally unrelated to the plot but I really enjoyed Hurley's mention of The Human Fund last night. Money. For people.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 14, 2010, 10:31:09 AM
I figured AltDes hit AltLocke because was trying to give AltLocke (as one of the fellow Alt815-ers he's tracked down) a brush with death, much like the brush with death that AltCholly forced on him.

So far we've seen Juliet, Sun (possibly), Desmond/AltDesmond, AltCholly, AltDaniel, AltLibby and AltHurley "cross over" between timelines.

Of these, 4 of these experiences came in death or through possible brushes with death: Juliet (died), Desmond (lethal levels of electromagnetism), AltDesmond (drowning) and AltCholly (ODing). 2, possibly 3, occurred during moments of unconsciousness: AltDaniel (in his sleep), AltDesmond (passing out at the stadium) and possibly Sun (knocked out by a tree). Both Desmond and AltDesmond had separate electromagnetism-related cross-overs (the lethal device on the island and the MRI machine off). AltHurley's flash came when kissing a blonde with nice breasts. And AltLibby's came... while watching TV?

I expect AltLocke to awaken in the hospital having caught flashes of his island self walking around like a regular Rory Calhoun. (And, yes, maybe he has a new run-in with Jack.)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 14, 2010, 10:31:47 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:35:16 AM
Totally unrelated to the plot but I really enjoyed Hurley's mention of The Human Fund last night. Money. For people.

That.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on April 14, 2010, 10:37:39 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:35:16 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 14, 2010, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:11:49 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 14, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
So, Desmond is matching up everything to the way it is/should be in the real universe?

I don't really understand what you're asking. It seems to me that AltDesmond plowed into AltLocke either because:

- he thinks that the guy who pushed him down the well was actually Locke, and he's getting some sweet revenge or
- (more likely) he is sending Locke to the hospital to meet up with Jack, Jin, Sun and Cholly

AltDesmond telling Ben the teacher that he had a kid named Cholly seems to support the theory that Des is now aware of all alternate universes.

I think if he's trying to reunite AltLocke with Jack, it's so he can finally get that surgery to fix his legs.  AltDesmond's goal seems to be to make everyone aware of the main universe, and they are doing that through whatever is their strongest connection with the island.  For AltHurley/Faraday/Desmond, it was meeting the women they loved.  With AltLocke, I would think he'll remember once he regains the ability to walk.  And I'm guessing AltJack and AltKate will remember whenever they meet each other.  Hopefully Sayid never remembers, so he can go on killing people.

They already bumped into each other on the Oceanic flight. Kate stole the pen out of Jack's pocket. I do like the idea about the leg fixing triggering Locke's memories.

Totally unrelated to the plot but I really enjoyed Hurley's mention of The Human Fund last night. Money. For people.

Right, but they didn't have a "connection."  A lot of the people on the flight met each other already (Jack and Locke, for instance, had an extended conversation), but they didn't have a moment reminiscent of something that happened on the island.  Of course, it's possible that this won't happen for Sayid and maybe Sawyer/Kate, depending on whether or not them choosing sides affects what happens in the AltUniverse.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 14, 2010, 11:05:32 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 14, 2010, 10:37:39 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:35:16 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 14, 2010, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:11:49 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 14, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
So, Desmond is matching up everything to the way it is/should be in the real universe?

I don't really understand what you're asking. It seems to me that AltDesmond plowed into AltLocke either because:

- he thinks that the guy who pushed him down the well was actually Locke, and he's getting some sweet revenge or
- (more likely) he is sending Locke to the hospital to meet up with Jack, Jin, Sun and Cholly

AltDesmond telling Ben the teacher that he had a kid named Cholly seems to support the theory that Des is now aware of all alternate universes.

I think if he's trying to reunite AltLocke with Jack, it's so he can finally get that surgery to fix his legs.  AltDesmond's goal seems to be to make everyone aware of the main universe, and they are doing that through whatever is their strongest connection with the island.  For AltHurley/Faraday/Desmond, it was meeting the women they loved.  With AltLocke, I would think he'll remember once he regains the ability to walk.  And I'm guessing AltJack and AltKate will remember whenever they meet each other.  Hopefully Sayid never remembers, so he can go on killing people.

They already bumped into each other on the Oceanic flight. Kate stole the pen out of Jack's pocket. I do like the idea about the leg fixing triggering Locke's memories.

Totally unrelated to the plot but I really enjoyed Hurley's mention of The Human Fund last night. Money. For people.

Right, but they didn't have a "connection."  A lot of the people on the flight met each other already (Jack and Locke, for instance, had an extended conversation), but they didn't have a moment reminiscent of something that happened on the island.  Of course, it's possible that this won't happen for Sayid and maybe Sawyer/Kate, depending on whether or not them choosing sides affects what happens in the AltUniverse.

Juliet has to see Sawyer somehow b/c she knew that "it worked".  My guess:   Juliet gets arrested or something by Sawyer.  Or she's Jack's ex-wife and they all end up at the hospital together for the altgangbang.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on April 14, 2010, 11:16:56 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 14, 2010, 10:37:39 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:35:16 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 14, 2010, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 14, 2010, 09:11:49 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 14, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
So, Desmond is matching up everything to the way it is/should be in the real universe?

I don't really understand what you're asking. It seems to me that AltDesmond plowed into AltLocke either because:

- he thinks that the guy who pushed him down the well was actually Locke, and he's getting some sweet revenge or
- (more likely) he is sending Locke to the hospital to meet up with Jack, Jin, Sun and Cholly

AltDesmond telling Ben the teacher that he had a kid named Cholly seems to support the theory that Des is now aware of all alternate universes.

I think if he's trying to reunite AltLocke with Jack, it's so he can finally get that surgery to fix his legs.  AltDesmond's goal seems to be to make everyone aware of the main universe, and they are doing that through whatever is their strongest connection with the island.  For AltHurley/Faraday/Desmond, it was meeting the women they loved.  With AltLocke, I would think he'll remember once he regains the ability to walk.  And I'm guessing AltJack and AltKate will remember whenever they meet each other.  Hopefully Sayid never remembers, so he can go on killing people.

They already bumped into each other on the Oceanic flight. Kate stole the pen out of Jack's pocket. I do like the idea about the leg fixing triggering Locke's memories.

Totally unrelated to the plot but I really enjoyed Hurley's mention of The Human Fund last night. Money. For people.

Right, but they didn't have a "connection."  A lot of the people on the flight met each other already (Jack and Locke, for instance, had an extended conversation), but they didn't have a moment reminiscent of something that happened on the island.  Of course, it's possible that this won't happen for Sayid and maybe Sawyer/Kate, depending on whether or not them choosing sides affects what happens in the AltUniverse.

THI.

AHurley met ALibby and didn't realize it till they kissed
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 14, 2010, 11:19:17 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 14, 2010, 11:05:32 AM
Juliet has to see Sawyer somehow b/c she knew that "it worked".

Or maybe she just saw her sister.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.

I read the post wrong.  Whoops.  But even still, Christian has visited Jack off the island, which is one of the reasons he decided to go back.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 21, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.

I read the post wrong.  Whoops.  But even still, Christian has visited Jack off the island, which is one of the reasons he decided to go back.

That's actually a good point. Maybe the off-island manifestations of Christian (talking to Michael on the freighter, visiting Jack at the hospital) were Jacob?

Or maybe a plot hole the size of a singularity![/Chuck]
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 09:03:12 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.

I read the post wrong.  Whoops.  But even still, Christian has visited Jack off the island, which is one of the reasons he decided to go back.

That's actually a good point. Maybe the off-island manifestations of Christian (talking to Michael on the freighter, visiting Jack at the hospital) were Jacob?

Or maybe a plot hole the size of a singularity![/Chuck]

Or maybe Jack was going crazy?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 21, 2010, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 09:03:12 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.

I read the post wrong.  Whoops.  But even still, Christian has visited Jack off the island, which is one of the reasons he decided to go back.

That's actually a good point. Maybe the off-island manifestations of Christian (talking to Michael on the freighter, visiting Jack at the hospital) were Jacob?

Or maybe a plot hole the size of a singularity![/Chuck]

Or maybe Jack was going crazy?

And you could make the case that the version of Christian that said "you can go now" to Michael on the freighter was actually Jacob - it seemed Michael was temporarily given the "gift" of notdying that Jacob gave to Richard.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 09:13:40 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 09:03:12 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.

I read the post wrong.  Whoops.  But even still, Christian has visited Jack off the island, which is one of the reasons he decided to go back.

That's actually a good point. Maybe the off-island manifestations of Christian (talking to Michael on the freighter, visiting Jack at the hospital) were Jacob?

Or maybe a plot hole the size of a singularity![/Chuck]

Or maybe Jack was going crazy?

And you could make the case that the version of Christian that said "you can go now" to Michael on the freighter was actually Jacob - it seemed Michael was temporarily given the "gift" of notdying that Jacob gave to Richard.

Although I don't think anything was ever mentioned about Jacob being able to turn into anybody else.  If he could (especially as Christian), then it doesn't really make sense that he and MIB would keep switching between them.  I could understand if the Christian that Jack kept seeing was Jacob and the one some of the other characters saw (particular Claire inside the cabin) was MIB, but we were told that wasn't the case.

As for Michael, the power that Jacob seemed to give people (Richard) was that they couldn't kill themselves.  On the freighter, Michael didn't technically kill himself because somebody else planted the C4.  There are a lot of inconsistencies with this whole MIB-as-Christian thing.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 21, 2010, 09:36:19 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 09:13:40 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 09:03:12 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.

I read the post wrong.  Whoops.  But even still, Christian has visited Jack off the island, which is one of the reasons he decided to go back.

That's actually a good point. Maybe the off-island manifestations of Christian (talking to Michael on the freighter, visiting Jack at the hospital) were Jacob?

Or maybe a plot hole the size of a singularity![/Chuck]

Or maybe Jack was going crazy?

And you could make the case that the version of Christian that said "you can go now" to Michael on the freighter was actually Jacob - it seemed Michael was temporarily given the "gift" of notdying that Jacob gave to Richard.

Although I don't think anything was ever mentioned about Jacob being able to turn into anybody else.  If he could (especially as Christian), then it doesn't really make sense that he and MIB would keep switching between them.  I could understand if the Christian that Jack kept seeing was Jacob and the one some of the other characters saw (particular Claire inside the cabin) was MIB, but we were told that wasn't the case.

As for Michael, the power that Jacob seemed to give people (Richard) was that they couldn't kill themselves.  On the freighter, Michael didn't technically kill himself because somebody else planted the C4.  There are a lot of inconsistencies with this whole MIB-as-Christian thing.

None of what you just typed makes any sense to me.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 09:36:19 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 09:13:40 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 09:03:12 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.

I read the post wrong.  Whoops.  But even still, Christian has visited Jack off the island, which is one of the reasons he decided to go back.

That's actually a good point. Maybe the off-island manifestations of Christian (talking to Michael on the freighter, visiting Jack at the hospital) were Jacob?

Or maybe a plot hole the size of a singularity![/Chuck]

Or maybe Jack was going crazy?

And you could make the case that the version of Christian that said "you can go now" to Michael on the freighter was actually Jacob - it seemed Michael was temporarily given the "gift" of notdying that Jacob gave to Richard.

Although I don't think anything was ever mentioned about Jacob being able to turn into anybody else.  If he could (especially as Christian), then it doesn't really make sense that he and MIB would keep switching between them.  I could understand if the Christian that Jack kept seeing was Jacob and the one some of the other characters saw (particular Claire inside the cabin) was MIB, but we were told that wasn't the case.

As for Michael, the power that Jacob seemed to give people (Richard) was that they couldn't kill themselves.  On the freighter, Michael didn't technically kill himself because somebody else planted the C4.  There are a lot of inconsistencies with this whole MIB-as-Christian thing.

None of what you just typed makes any sense to me.

It's hard to understand anything after you've had your mind blown.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 09:59:25 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 09:36:19 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 09:13:40 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 09:03:12 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 21, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: Weebs on April 21, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 20, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Steak drippings. All the threads are starting to tie together. The callbacks to past seasons were weaved so effortlessly into this episode that it was hard to keep track.

Can't wait to see Locke go apeshit on NotTinaFey and her band of chubby nerds.

Edited to add it was nice to get confirmation that Smokey was Christian all along (which means he told Locke to move the island, and told Locke to say hi to Jack once he was off the island).

Didn't they say Jacob was the only one who could leave the island?  There's so man Real and NotCharacters that I'm starting to mix up who's who.

You're a retard.  Locke left the island to get everybody back. 

I wonder how they're going to get Sawyer, Kate, and Hugo to the hospital to join all of them.  I also wonder how Sun knew who Locke was (or who she thought he was)?  Probably b/c of her brush with death, which seems to be the main reason for realizing on-island stuff (other than "love").  All of the other characters are in play, (Miles, Ilana, Dr. Chang, Charlotte, Faraday, etc.) but I wonder if they will be able to choose their destiny or whatever like I have a feeling the Losties will.

I read the post wrong.  Whoops.  But even still, Christian has visited Jack off the island, which is one of the reasons he decided to go back.

That's actually a good point. Maybe the off-island manifestations of Christian (talking to Michael on the freighter, visiting Jack at the hospital) were Jacob?

Or maybe a plot hole the size of a singularity![/Chuck]

Or maybe Jack was going crazy?

And you could make the case that the version of Christian that said "you can go now" to Michael on the freighter was actually Jacob - it seemed Michael was temporarily given the "gift" of notdying that Jacob gave to Richard.

Although I don't think anything was ever mentioned about Jacob being able to turn into anybody else.  If he could (especially as Christian), then it doesn't really make sense that he and MIB would keep switching between them.  I could understand if the Christian that Jack kept seeing was Jacob and the one some of the other characters saw (particular Claire inside the cabin) was MIB, but we were told that wasn't the case.

As for Michael, the power that Jacob seemed to give people (Richard) was that they couldn't kill themselves.  On the freighter, Michael didn't technically kill himself because somebody else planted the C4.  There are a lot of inconsistencies with this whole MIB-as-Christian thing.

None of what you just typed makes any sense to me.

It's hard to understand anything after you've had your mind blown.

I'm pretty sure that the writers of this show might know what they're doing with all of this.  Especially compared to your pea sized brain.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on April 21, 2010, 10:02:39 AM
With 4 eps plus a 2 hour finale left, are we just going to resign ourselves to never finding out:

How Dharma found the Island in the first place?
Why did they go there?
Why Smokey didn't kill Dharma?
How did the Ben-led Others manage to get dossiers on the plane survivors so quickly?
What made Walt so special?
Why women on the Island couldn't have babies?
How the Sharks got Dharma logos?
What was the Button really for?
Why there was time dilation between the boat and the Island?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Canadouche on April 21, 2010, 10:32:38 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 21, 2010, 10:02:39 AM
With 4 eps plus a 2 hour finale left, are we just going to resign ourselves to never finding out:

How Dharma found the Island in the first place?
Why did they go there?
Why Smokey didn't kill Dharma?
How did the Ben-led Others manage to get dossiers on the plane survivors so quickly?
What made Walt so special?
Why women on the Island couldn't have babies?
How the Sharks got Dharma logos?
What was the Button really for?
Why there was time dilation between the boat and the Island?

I seem to recall some off-the-air allusions to Dharma existing -- and occupying the island -- for the sole purpose of stopping the world from ending, with The Numbers having a specific connection toward some world-ending equation.  Which actually sort of makes sense, since we know the MiB would end the world if he ever escaped, and how the Numbers are related to the survivors. 

You'd think Smokey didn't kill Dharma because of their sonic fence. 

If the Others worked for Jacob, wouldn't he have been able to provide them with a list, which they could've used their connections to the outside world to investigate?  (Then again, Jacob apparently never communicated with Ben)

And as for Walt -- I think he was made special due to his ability to rapidly age during the short time-period of a 6-season show.

Also, it seems to make sense that dead people appearing off the island are agents of Jacob, not Jacob directly.  Or at least I want to believe it really was Dead Charlie berating Hugo into getting the band back together.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 10:34:28 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 21, 2010, 10:02:39 AM
With 4 eps plus a 2 hour finale left, are we just going to resign ourselves to never finding out:

How Dharma found the Island in the first place?
Why did they go there?  To do sweet ass research about time travel and science shit.
Why Smokey didn't kill Dharma?  Those pylons wouldn't let him cross into their territory.
How did the Ben-led Others manage to get dossiers on the plane survivors so quickly?
What made Walt so special?  he could bring animals to him and make himself appear in places.  I think he'll be back.
Why women on the Island couldn't have babies?
How the Sharks got Dharma logos?  They branded them.
What was the Button really for?  Stopping the whole island from being sucked into it.
Why there was time dilation between the boat and the Island?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 21, 2010, 10:55:13 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on April 21, 2010, 10:34:28 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 21, 2010, 10:02:39 AM
With 4 eps plus a 2 hour finale left, are we just going to resign ourselves to never finding out:

How Dharma found the Island in the first place? An as of yet unidentified man was able to find the location of the Island in the 1960s (well before 1974, when the DI was well-established), by way of the Lamp Post station in Los Angeles -- as explained by Eloise Hawking. Located underneath a church, the Lamp Post harnessed the unique pocket of energy in that area and used it to find other similar pockets around the globe. (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/DHARMA_Initiative)
Why did they go there?  To do sweet ass research about time travel and science shit. It seems that the Initiative's general goal, with specifics still unknown, was to manipulate scientific laws in order to change any of the six factors of the Valenzetti Equation, a sequence believed to have some connection to the date marking the end of humanity, in hopes of delaying such a date.
Why Smokey didn't kill Dharma?  Those pylons wouldn't let him cross into their territory.
How did the Ben-led Others manage to get dossiers on the plane survivors so quickly? Because Mikhail had the internets in the Flame station and Richard off the island to find out about them.
What made Walt so special?  he could bring animals to him and make himself appear in places.  I think he'll be back.
Why women on the Island couldn't have babies? Because the healing powers of the island (triggered by the Incident - pregnancies went just fine before that) also attacked those lousy fetuses invading the mother's body. According to Juliet, "The problem occurs somewhere during the second trimester, when the mother's immune system is triggered. The white blood cell count plummets. It's like the ... immune system turns on the fetus."
How the Sharks got Dharma logos?  They branded them.
What was the Button really for?  Stopping the whole island from being sucked into it.
Why there was time dilation between the boat and the Island? Because it's a magical magnoelectric island. Who cares.

Adding some stuff from Lostpedia. Not that it'll stop Chuck from pre-emptively bitching about answers before the next 5 hours play out.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 21, 2010, 08:53:17 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 21, 2010, 10:02:39 AM
With 4 eps plus a 2 hour finale left, are we just going to resign ourselves to never finding out:

How Dharma found the Island in the first place?
Why did they go there?
Why Smokey didn't kill Dharma?
How did the Ben-led Others manage to get dossiers on the plane survivors so quickly?
What made Walt so special?
Why women on the Island couldn't have babies?
How the Sharks got Dharma logos?
What was the Button really for?
Why there was time dilation between the boat and the Island?

I hate so much about the things that you choose to be.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on April 21, 2010, 10:02:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on April 21, 2010, 08:53:17 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on April 21, 2010, 10:02:39 AM
With 4 eps plus a 2 hour finale left, are we just going to resign ourselves to never finding out:

How Dharma found the Island in the first place?
Why did they go there?
Why Smokey didn't kill Dharma?
How did the Ben-led Others manage to get dossiers on the plane survivors so quickly?
What made Walt so special?
Why women on the Island couldn't have babies?
How the Sharks got Dharma logos?
What was the Button really for?
Why there was time dilation between the boat and the Island?

I hate so much about the things that you choose to be.

Chuck: wronger than the Cubs.

QuoteJACK: What is this place?

ELOISE: The DHARMA Initiative called it the Lamp Post. This is how they found the island.

...

[Eloise opens a drawer and pulls out a binder.]

ELOISE: Aha. Here we go.

[Jack inspects the photograph on the chalk board. It looks like The Island. The bottom of the photograph reads "9/23/54 - U.S. ARMY - OP 264 - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY"]

ELOISE: [Sighs] All right. I apologize if this is confusing, but... [To Jack, who is still staring at the photo] Let's pay attention, yes? The room we're standing in was constructed years ago over a unique pocket of electromagnetic energy. That energy connects to similar pockets all over the world. The people who built this room, however, were only interested in one.

SUN: The Island.

ELOISE: Yes. The island. They'd gathered proof that it existed. They knew it was out there somewhere, but they just couldn't find it. Then a very clever fellow built this pendulum on the theoretical notion that they should stop looking for where the island was supposed to be and start looking for where it was going to be.

[Pendulum whooshes]

JACK: What do you mean, "Where it was going to be"?

ELOISE: Well, this fellow presumed, and correctly, as it turned out, that the Island was always moving. Why do you think you were never rescued? Now while the movements of the Island seem random, this man and his team created a series of equations which tell us, with a high degree of probability, where it is going to be at a certain point... in time. Windows, as it were, that while open, provide a route back. Unfortunately, these windows don't stay open for very long. Yours closes... in 36 hours. [She hands the binder to Jack]
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on April 21, 2010, 10:49:41 PM
That was the sound of RV owning Chuck's face off. Chuck, you no longer have a face.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on April 26, 2010, 10:58:52 AM
I'm not going to lie.  The fact that the sharks have Dharma logos on their tails is news to me.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on April 26, 2010, 11:04:31 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 26, 2010, 10:58:52 AM
I'm not going to lie.  The fact that the sharks have Dharma logos on their tails is news to me.

Fuck, I don't even remember seeing a shark.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on April 26, 2010, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 26, 2010, 11:04:31 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 26, 2010, 10:58:52 AM
I'm not going to lie.  The fact that the sharks have Dharma logos on their tails is news to me.

Fuck, I don't even remember seeing a shark.

I didn't either, until I looked it up.  I definitely remember the Sawyer-and-Michael-Huck-Finn-raft shark.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on April 26, 2010, 11:20:06 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 26, 2010, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: Yeti on April 26, 2010, 11:04:31 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on April 26, 2010, 10:58:52 AM
I'm not going to lie.  The fact that the sharks have Dharma logos on their tails is news to me.

Fuck, I don't even remember seeing a shark.

I didn't either, until I looked it up.  I definitely remember the Sawyer-and-Michael-Huck-Finn-raft shark.

It was that one and the one from the first episode this season.  They flashed down to the submerged island and one of them was swimming around like a shark would.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on April 27, 2010, 09:10:33 PM
Lost was not awesome tonight.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 02:56:02 PM
This week's new episode is titled "The Candidate" and it doesn't seem like it's totally out of bounds to hope for the final candidate's identity to be revealed tonight.

So, who's your horse?

Jack is far and away the most logical. No one else makes even remotely as much sense as he does: the leader, the shepherd, the skeptic who finally found his faith. It has to be him... so obviously it can't be him, right?

Right? Right.

And, while I still get darkhorse vibes off of Hurley, I feel that somehow seems too easy, too, at this point (what, with him being Jacob's go-to guy of late.) Sawyer? Maybe. He's probably the third most logical, but I'm not really feeling it at this point.

Frankly, I'm still hoping it's Locke (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg205806#msg205806). Real Locke. Back-from-the-dead Locke, or jumping-over-from-the-alt-timeline Locke, whatever. Whatever it takes to kick off some extreme Locke-on-Locke violence.

How likely do I think this is? I don't know. Probably not very.

But, fuck it all... I'm going on hope. I'm picking Locke for the win and setting the over/under at 6.5.

Who you got?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on May 04, 2010, 03:04:03 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 02:56:02 PM
This week's new episode is titled "The Candidate" and it doesn't seem like it's totally out of bounds to hope for the final candidate's identity to be revealed tonight.

So, who's your horse?

Jack is far and away the most logical. No one else makes even remotely as much sense as he does: the leader, the shepherd, the skeptic who finally found his faith. It has to be him... so obviously it can't be him, right?

Right? Right.

And, while I still get darkhorse vibes off of Hurley, I feel that somehow seems too easy, too, at this point (what, with him being Jacob's go-to guy of late.) Sawyer? Maybe. He's probably the third most logical, but I'm not really feeling it at this point.

Frankly, I'm still hoping it's Locke (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7100.msg205806#msg205806). Real Locke. Back-from-the-dead Locke, or jumping-over-from-the-alt-timeline Locke, whatever. Whatever it takes to kick off some extreme Locke-on-Locke violence.

How likely do I think this is? I don't know. Probably not very.

But, fuck it all... I'm going on hope. I'm picking Locke for the win and setting the over/under at 6.5.

Who you got?

I can get behind this.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 04, 2010, 04:29:02 PM
I'm guessing it's Raylan Givens.  I'm setting the over/under on his quick draw at 0.26 seconds, and I'm taking the under.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 06:50:26 PM
Via Chuck, Doc Jensen thinks it could be Ben...

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-countdown-candidates/

More importantly, he's pretty sure tonight's episode is gonna be FUCKING AWESOME.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: CT III on May 04, 2010, 06:52:49 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 04, 2010, 04:29:02 PM
I'm guessing it's Raylan Givens.  I'm setting the over/under on his quick draw at 0.26 seconds, and I'm taking the under.

Raylan Givens wouldn't be caught dead on Lost.  What, do you think he's a fag?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 09:06:22 PM
Did we hear Sayid tell Jack "it's going to be you" when telling him to go find Desmond or did I mishear that?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 04, 2010, 10:19:31 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 09:06:22 PM
Did we hear Sayid tell Jack "it's going to be you" when telling him to go find Desmond or did I mishear that?

Yes, you heard that.

Now, no cheating via sideways reincarnations or tonight was one big con.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on May 04, 2010, 10:35:24 PM
OK, holy shit.

Also, where is Ben?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 11:09:59 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 04, 2010, 10:19:31 PM
Now, no cheating via sideways reincarnations or tonight was one big con.

Cheating? How would anything suggested be "cheating"? You're the worst.

Quote from: Slaky on May 04, 2010, 10:35:24 PM
Also, where is Ben?

With Alpert and Miles.

While Jack, Sun and Lapidus followed Hurley's plan to have a chat with EvilLocke, they went off to fetch explosives from the barracks to try to blow up the plane.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Everybody_Loves_Hugo

Hmmm...
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on May 04, 2010, 11:31:36 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 11:09:59 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 04, 2010, 10:19:31 PM
Now, no cheating via sideways reincarnations or tonight was one big con.

Cheating? How would anything suggested be "cheating"? You're the worst.

Quote from: Slaky on May 04, 2010, 10:35:24 PM
Also, where is Ben?

With Alpert and Miles.

While Jack, Sun and Lapidus followed Hurley's plan to have a chat with EvilLocke, they went off to fetch explosives from the barracks to try to blow up the plane.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Everybody_Loves_Hugo

Hmmm...

Ho boy. So is it too simple to say that it's now a race to Desmond?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 11:39:42 PM
FWIW, I liked the episode but am kind of with Sepinwall on the deaths...

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/lost-the-candidate-watership-down

QuoteNo, what's still concerning me is the storytelling with each of these characters leading up to their deaths.

We spent the early portions of the season in the Temple watching Sayid come back from the dead, changed into something that terrified Dogen, and that seemed in personality to bare little resemblance to the Sayid Jarrah we knew. He was "infected" with something, just as Claire apparently was, and as Rousseau's team was, but nothing was ever explained beyond that, nor did we find out how/why the island resurrected him when it had never done so before. He was an empty killing machine, and then Desmond's soulful Scottish burr brought him back from the dark side, and then he took one for the team and carried the bomb as far away from the others as he could, and then... well, the mysteries of his resurrection (and his more pronounced English accent) will lie at the bottom of the ocean with the sub, I suppose.

I've talked before about how the writers kind of lost the thread of Jin and Sun by keeping them apart for as long as they did. But beyond them as a couple, I feel like the show lost sight of the two as individual characters. Jin was the guy off on his own during the time-jumps until they could land in a place where he could stop long enough to learn English, but his only real agenda was finding Sun. And I'm not sure what the point was of Sun's various twists and turns with Widmore and Ben and whatnot during the Oceanic Six period, nor was I ever entirely comfortable with the idea of her going back to the island for Jin while leaving Ji Yeon behind - at least not without us getting to see her agonize over that decision even a little. Ji Yeon began as a plot device during the period when the show was obsessed with the infertility storyline, then became an inconvenience when Sun had to go looking for her husband. (When Kate left Aaron to go find Claire, we got a chance to see how much it hurt her to do so.) As the sub was flooding and it became clear that Jin wasn't going to be able to get Sun out, I know I was supposed to be incredibly moved by Jin choosing to die with his wife - and Daniel Dae Kim and Yunjin Kim certainly played the hell out of that sequence - but all I could do was yell, "Tell him to get out of there for your daughter, Sun!"

So even as Sayid was sacrificing himself to give Jack a chance to stop Locke, and even as Jin was choosing to go to a watery grave with the woman he loved(**), I was largely thinking about missed opportunities and narrative dead ends...

Not that I necessarily think these things will be left totally unresolved. They may yet be dealt with in some way. It just feels like the writers expeditiously dispatching a few more loose ends, the better to focus on the big stuff they're building to.

It just felt like an abrupt end for a character as thoroughly sweet as Sayid.

Also: lest we forget...

QuoteFor that matter, RIP, Lapidus. Alas, Lapidus, we knew him - vaguely. He dies as one of a handful of regular cast characters (I think Libby and Ilana are the only others) to die without getting a solo spotlight episode, and it was clear he stuck around as long as he did mainly because Darlton got a kick out of Jeff Fahey's exasperated delivery, even if he only got to do it once every three or four episodes.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/vhq71j.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 11:42:22 PM
DPD...

http://news-briefs.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-series-finale-will-expand-to-two-and-a-half-hours/

QuoteGet ready for a lot of Lost on May 23: The series finale will expand to two-and-a-half hours from the originally scheduled two hours. The news, which was first posted on the website of the Hollywood Reporter, was confirmed to EW.com by a source close to the show. The official announcement is expected to be made on tonight's Jimmy Kimmel Live! The Lost finale, which was to have aired from 9 to 11 p.m., will now extend until 11:30 p.m. A total of five-and-a-half hours of Lost programming will be broadcast on that Sunday night: A two-hour retrospective special/clip show, Lost: The Final Journey, will precede the finale, from 7 to 9 p.m.; Jimmy Kimmel Live!: Aloha to Lost will run after the finale and local news, starting at 12:05 a.m.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 04, 2010, 11:49:04 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 11:39:42 PM
FWIW, I liked the episode but am kind of with Sepinwall on the deaths...

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/lost-the-candidate-watership-down

QuoteNo, what's still concerning me is the storytelling with each of these characters leading up to their deaths.

We spent the early portions of the season in the Temple watching Sayid come back from the dead, changed into something that terrified Dogen, and that seemed in personality to bare little resemblance to the Sayid Jarrah we knew. He was "infected" with something, just as Claire apparently was, and as Rousseau's team was, but nothing was ever explained beyond that, nor did we find out how/why the island resurrected him when it had never done so before. He was an empty killing machine, and then Desmond's soulful Scottish burr brought him back from the dark side, and then he took one for the team and carried the bomb as far away from the others as he could, and then... well, the mysteries of his resurrection (and his more pronounced English accent) will lie at the bottom of the ocean with the sub, I suppose.

I've talked before about how the writers kind of lost the thread of Jin and Sun by keeping them apart for as long as they did. But beyond them as a couple, I feel like the show lost sight of the two as individual characters. Jin was the guy off on his own during the time-jumps until they could land in a place where he could stop long enough to learn English, but his only real agenda was finding Sun. And I'm not sure what the point was of Sun's various twists and turns with Widmore and Ben and whatnot during the Oceanic Six period, nor was I ever entirely comfortable with the idea of her going back to the island for Jin while leaving Ji Yeon behind - at least not without us getting to see her agonize over that decision even a little. Ji Yeon began as a plot device during the period when the show was obsessed with the infertility storyline, then became an inconvenience when Sun had to go looking for her husband. (When Kate left Aaron to go find Claire, we got a chance to see how much it hurt her to do so.) As the sub was flooding and it became clear that Jin wasn't going to be able to get Sun out, I know I was supposed to be incredibly moved by Jin choosing to die with his wife - and Daniel Dae Kim and Yunjin Kim certainly played the hell out of that sequence - but all I could do was yell, "Tell him to get out of there for your daughter, Sun!"

So even as Sayid was sacrificing himself to give Jack a chance to stop Locke, and even as Jin was choosing to go to a watery grave with the woman he loved(**), I was largely thinking about missed opportunities and narrative dead ends...

Not that I necessarily think these things will be left totally unresolved. They may yet be dealt with in some way. It just feels like the writers expeditiously dispatching a few more loose ends, the better to focus on the big stuff they're building to.

It just felt like an abrupt end for a character as thoroughly sweet as Sayid.

Also: lest we forget...

QuoteFor that matter, RIP, Lapidus. Alas, Lapidus, we knew him - vaguely. He dies as one of a handful of regular cast characters (I think Libby and Ilana are the only others) to die without getting a solo spotlight episode, and it was clear he stuck around as long as he did mainly because Darlton got a kick out of Jeff Fahey's exasperated delivery, even if he only got to do it once every three or four episodes.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/vhq71j.jpg)

I was thinking the same thing about Jin/Sun.  Sure, they will love each other forever, but now that kid is going to grow up without parents.  What the hell was Sun thinking as she was sitting there trying to give Jin a reason to leave?  I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see some kind of resurrection of all of these characters, or at least something that happens with the alt-timelines.  If you figure all of the characters are going to remember everything that happened in the real timeline, they'll have to be aware of the fact that they're dead.  There's a whole lot more splainin' to do in the next 3.5 hours.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 11:51:11 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 04, 2010, 11:49:04 PM
There's a whole lot more splainin' to do in the next 3.5 4.5 hours.

Still doesn't seem like all that much, though'd
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: RW on May 05, 2010, 03:24:03 AM
Anyone else think that the white/black, good/evil may come down to the random kid in the jungle and Walt? Or are we at the point where we give up on Walt?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 05, 2010, 05:14:15 AM
Quote from: RW on May 05, 2010, 03:24:03 AM
Anyone else think that the white/black, good/evil may come down to the random kid in the jungle and Walt? Or are we at the point where we give up on Walt?

Racist.

That kid in the jungle has to be young Jacob. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 05, 2010, 08:37:51 AM
Quote from: RW on May 05, 2010, 03:24:03 AM
Anyone else think that the white/black, good/evil may come down to the random kid in the jungle and Walt?

No.

Also:

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 05, 2010, 05:14:15 AM
Racist.

...That.

Quote from: RW on May 05, 2010, 03:24:03 AM
Or are we at the point where we give up on Walt?

Long past it. I'd be willing to bet he makes another cameo appearance, just because they're bringing back everyone they can this season for little cameos, but I think they all but wrote him out of the show with his off-island meeting with Locke last season.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 05, 2010, 09:32:13 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 04, 2010, 11:39:42 PM
FWIW, I liked the episode but am kind of with Sepinwall on the deaths...

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/lost-the-candidate-watership-down

QuoteAnd I'm not sure what the point was of Sun's various twists and turns with Widmore and Ben and whatnot during the Oceanic Six period

That. I kept wondering if her shady meetings with Widmore off the island would be addressed. But everything from the point that they reached the dock on was so intense that I found myself not giving a shit about any answers. I look for entertainment first and answers second and we got plenty of the former this week.

I think Chuck would rather watch a half hour monologue of someone reading an Island Q&A than an action packed half hour of hot sub action.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 05, 2010, 09:51:14 AM
DPD. The remaining chumps on the island are pretty much stuck there now, right? Sub got blowed up. No pilot to fly the Ajira plane. I guess they could sail Desmond's boat on the proper heading to get out of there, but I don't see that hai.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 05, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
BTW... When did Desipio's "Lost Season 5" thread (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6594) get swallowed by the bacon loop?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on May 05, 2010, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 05, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
BTW... When did Desipio's "Lost Season 5" thread (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6594) get swallowed by the bacon loop?

I wasn't sure if it was taboo or not to mention the disappearance of all threads with no activity since 11/6/09 (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7079.msg196772#new)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 05, 2010, 10:54:36 AM
Quote from: Yeti on May 05, 2010, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 05, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
BTW... When did Desipio's "Lost Season 5" thread (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6594) get swallowed by the bacon loop?

I wasn't sure if it was taboo or not to mention the disappearance of all threads with no activity since 11/6/09 (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7079.msg196772#new)

This is downright tragic:

http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?action=profile;u=82;sa=showPosts
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 05, 2010, 11:09:52 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa.  Are we sure Lapidus is dead?

Also, I had the exact same thought about Sun and Jin's kid.  Idiots.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 05, 2010, 11:19:01 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 05, 2010, 11:09:52 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa.  Are we sure Lapidus is dead?

Also, I had the exact same thought about Sun and Jin's kid.  Idiots.

He dead.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 05, 2010, 11:21:06 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 05, 2010, 11:09:52 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa.  Are we sure Lapidus is dead?

Also, I had the exact same thought about Sun and Jin's kid.  Idiots.

I think Lapidus is dead. He's not an important enough character to ridiculously survive, like Jin did with the freighter explosion.

And he got a solid one-liner send off with his exasperated "Aw...hell" before getting smacked with a big door.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 05, 2010, 12:12:28 PM
Who else thinks Sawyer is going to wake up next week from his bump on the head and "remember" the flash-sideways world?  Or maybe he'll just start speaking Korean.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on May 05, 2010, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 05, 2010, 12:12:28 PM
Who else thinks Sawyer is going to wake up next week from his bump on the head and "remember" the flash-sideways world?  Or maybe he'll just start speaking Korean.

Not bad Weebs.

I'm intrigued by the Claire-Jack alt. timeline hook up. What does it mean for island time? There's gotta be something to it. I still don't really get why Claire has become a major character again.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 05, 2010, 12:50:16 PM
Quote from: Slaky on May 05, 2010, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 05, 2010, 12:12:28 PM
Who else thinks Sawyer is going to wake up next week from his bump on the head and "remember" the flash-sideways world?  Or maybe he'll just start speaking Korean.

Not bad Weebs.

I'm intrigued by the Claire-Jack alt. timeline hook up. What does it mean for island time? There's gotta be something to it. I still don't really get why Claire has become a major character again.

It could just be that Claire is Jack's connection to the regular timeline, although he kind of seems to be connecting with everybody. One thing that still doesn't make sense to me is Jack's injury in the very first episode of this season.  Why was he the only one that had cuts/bruises from the bomb explosion? 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 05, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Frank Lapidus, 04.04.10.  NEVER FORGET.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 05, 2010, 01:48:19 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 05, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Frank Lapidus, 04.04.10.  NEVER FORGET.

He's alive in Sideways world.  So, he's really not dead.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 05, 2010, 02:12:20 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 05, 2010, 01:48:19 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 05, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Frank Lapidus, 04.04.10.  NEVER FORGET.

He's alive in Sideways world.  So, he's really not dead.

Have we even seen him in the Alt-World?  Also, isn't it May?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 05, 2010, 02:46:20 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 05, 2010, 02:12:20 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 05, 2010, 01:48:19 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 05, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Frank Lapidus, 04.04.10.  NEVER FORGET.

He's alive in Sideways world.  So, he's really not dead.

Have we even seen him in the Alt-World?  Also, isn't it May?

Not in MY Alt-World, it isn't.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on May 05, 2010, 02:49:45 PM
So we have the following groups remaining:

Sawyer, Kate, Jack and Hurley

Des in a Well

The Widmore Conglomerate

Locke and Claire

Miles, Ben and Alpert

WORLDS COLLIDE. NEXT.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Andy on May 05, 2010, 02:52:37 PM
Where are Miles, Ben and Alpert? 

And...my wife is still mad at me for cheering at Kate getting shot.  Evangeline Lilly is hot and everything, but Kate had it coming.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on May 05, 2010, 05:15:54 PM
I read a comment somewhere where someone suggested that Sun and Jin's daughter could be the "Kwon" on the wall. I don't see this happening nor do I think it would make much sense in regards to what Lost has usually done (or on the "Why the fuck would you make a 3 yr old the head island dude" side of things), but with the speculation of which Kwon was referenced, it was an intriguing idea.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: ChuckD on May 06, 2010, 07:08:29 PM
If "Aww, hell!" is not a perfect Laipidus reaction to  imminent death, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenFoe on May 07, 2010, 02:12:28 PM
Finally watched last night.
Why is everyone so sure Lapidus is dead?

Any confirmation anywhere?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 07, 2010, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on May 07, 2010, 02:12:28 PM
Finally watched last night.
Why is everyone so sure Lapidus is dead?

Any confirmation anywhere?

I'm thinking it was the part where he got nailed by a submarine door and then it flooded with water, sinking to the bottom of the ocean.  I don't know though.  I might just be over-analyzing.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 08, 2010, 05:35:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 07, 2010, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on May 07, 2010, 02:12:28 PM
Finally watched last night.
Why is everyone so sure Lapidus is dead?

Any confirmation anywhere?

I'm thinking it was the part where he got nailed by a submarine door and then it flooded with water, sinking to the bottom of the ocean.  I don't know though.  I might just be over-analyzing.

Well that's b/c you're a fucking idiot. (http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/05/confirmation-on-status-of-frank.html)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 08, 2010, 10:51:00 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 08, 2010, 05:35:34 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 07, 2010, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on May 07, 2010, 02:12:28 PM
Finally watched last night.
Why is everyone so sure Lapidus is dead?

Any confirmation anywhere?

I'm thinking it was the part where he got nailed by a submarine door and then it flooded with water, sinking to the bottom of the ocean.  I don't know though.  I might just be over-analyzing.

Well that's b/c you're a fucking idiot. (http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/05/confirmation-on-status-of-frank.html)

You're an asshat.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob. 

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke. 

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 11, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob. 

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke. 

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much. 

We get it, you read spoilers. Now shut the fuck up about them.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on May 11, 2010, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 11, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob.  

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke.  

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much.  

We get it, you read spoilers. Now shut the fuck up about them.

Apparently the spoilers are coming out like mustard colored poop.

I'm scared.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 11:24:58 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 11, 2010, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 11, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob.  

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke.  

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much.  

We get it, you read spoilers. Now shut the fuck up about them.

Apparently the spoilers are coming out like mustard colored poop.

I'm scared.

I haven't heard any other spoilers other than who adam and eve are. 
And I haven't heard anything at all about the finale.   I've been trying to avoid them, actually. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 11, 2010, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 11:24:58 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 11, 2010, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 11, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob.  

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke.  

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much.  

We get it, you read spoilers. Now shut the fuck up about them.

Apparently the spoilers are coming out like mustard colored poop.

I'm scared.

I haven't heard any other spoilers other than who adam and eve are. 
And I haven't heard anything at all about the finale.   I've been trying to avoid them, actually. 

Try harder.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 11, 2010, 12:12:04 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 11:24:58 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 11, 2010, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 11, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob.  

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke.  

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much.  

We get it, you read spoilers. Now shut the fuck up about them.

Apparently the spoilers are coming out like mustard colored poop.

I'm scared.

I haven't heard any other spoilers other than who adam and eve are.  
And I haven't heard anything at all about the finale.   I've been trying to avoid them, actually.  

You still managed to just post a fucking spoiler.

Good job, dood.

Quote from: R-V on May 08, 2010, 10:51:00 AM
You're an asshat.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 11, 2010, 12:12:04 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 11:24:58 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 11, 2010, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 11, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob.  

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke.  

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much.  

We get it, you read spoilers. Now shut the fuck up about them.

Apparently the spoilers are coming out like mustard colored poop.

I'm scared.

I haven't heard any other spoilers other than who adam and eve are.  
And I haven't heard anything at all about the finale.   I've been trying to avoid them, actually.  

You still managed to just post a fucking spoiler.

Good job, dood.

Quote from: R-V on May 08, 2010, 10:51:00 AM
You're an asshat.

What spoiler?  This episode also will show the island.  Is that a spoiler too?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 11, 2010, 12:31:56 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 11, 2010, 12:12:04 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 11:24:58 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 11, 2010, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 11, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob.  

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke.  

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much.  

We get it, you read spoilers. Now shut the fuck up about them.

Apparently the spoilers are coming out like mustard colored poop.

I'm scared.

I haven't heard any other spoilers other than who adam and eve are.  
And I haven't heard anything at all about the finale.   I've been trying to avoid them, actually.  

You still managed to just post a fucking spoiler.

Good job, dood.

Quote from: R-V on May 08, 2010, 10:51:00 AM
You're an asshat.

What spoiler?  This episode also will show the island.  Is that a spoiler too?

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much. 

Once again: good job.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 12:50:47 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 11, 2010, 12:31:56 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 11, 2010, 12:12:04 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 11:24:58 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 11, 2010, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 11, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
Tonight's episode is going to be fucking awesome.  All flashback.  All MIB and Jacob.  

Hopefully they show how he turned into the black smoke.  

and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much.  

We get it, you read spoilers. Now shut the fuck up about them.

Apparently the spoilers are coming out like mustard colored poop.

I'm scared.

I haven't heard any other spoilers other than who adam and eve are.  
And I haven't heard anything at all about the finale.   I've been trying to avoid them, actually.  

You still managed to just post a fucking spoiler.

Good job, dood.

Quote from: R-V on May 08, 2010, 10:51:00 AM
You're an asshat.

What spoiler?  This episode also will show the island.  Is that a spoiler too?

Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 11, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
and Adam and Eve will be revealed.  I know that much. 

Once again: good job.

I didn't say who they were, did I?  That'd be the spoiler.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on May 11, 2010, 12:53:41 PM
In the finale, we will find out who the new Jacob will be.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 12, 2010, 06:37:25 AM
Not a fan of that episode. Seems to me there's hundreds of years of interesting story to tell about Jacob/MIB, and they spent a whole hour on a very limited time period on the island. And the handling of the magical golden cove was very hokey.

Goes to show that providing big answers (origins of Smokey, identity of Adam & Eve) does not necessarily equal entertaining television.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 08:28:16 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 06:37:25 AM
Not a fan of that episode. Seems to me there's hundreds of years of interesting story to tell about Jacob/MIB, and they spent a whole hour on a very limited time period on the island. And the handling of the magical golden cove was very hokey.

Goes to show that providing big answers (origins of Smokey, identity of Adam & Eve) does not necessarily equal entertaining television.

THIS.

The magical, glowing cave was super ghey. The only interesting thing that came from the episode was finding out that Jacob is kind of the evil one. Or at least he's responsible for MIB.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:18:16 AM
Trying to wrap my head around last night's episode in the context of the entire show. Get ready for a lot of words. What am I missing/wronging?

Last night was The Beginning and established the objectives of each of our key players:

-   Jacob's first goal is to protect The Light/Pandora's Box/Ark of the Covenant/whatever you want to call it, because it is the source of all the good stuff in life. It can't be destroyed because then none of us would be able to take naps or eat bacon. It can't be found or exploited by Man, because then we'd become corrupt jagoffs obsessed with naps and bacon, and would eventually melt like the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Jacob achieves this goal by killing off anyone who gets too close to discovering the light.
-   Jacob's second goal is to find someone to succeed him in his role of protector. Because like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon, he's getting too old for this sh*t. Jacob attempts to achieve this goal by bringing Candidates to the Island, in the hopes of one day finding a Candidate who is righteous enough to protect The Light without being tempted to take a dip in it.
-   Jacob's motivation is to please his dead Mom, because he was always second fiddle to the smarter, specialer Brother. Jacob is kind of a weenie.
-   Smokey's goal is to leave the Island. He doesn't care about magic caves or the Corruption of Man, because he has lived among us and thinks we're already corrupt. Smokey knows that he can't leave the Island until he's the only one left on the Island (no Jacob or Candidate to stop him from leaving). Unfortunately due to Mother's Rules, he cannot kill Jacob or any Candidates. So he passes a few hundred years by manipulating Candidates into killing each other, by showing up as dead people or "infecting" them.
-   Smokey is motivated by a curiosity about where he comes from (he knows it's not The Island, but not much else) and a desire to prove Jacob wrong. He thinks Jacob's idealistic view of Man is laughable. He's also probably mad that Jacob killed him and left him with a plume of smoke as a body.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:18:52 AM
DPD. So now we know what these guys want. Here is what has happened timeline-wise on the island:

-   A long, long, long time ago: Last night's episode happens, ending with the beginning of Jacob and Smokey's game.
-   A long, long time ago: Some Egyptians show up on the Island. They start having issues with childbirth, so they build the statue of Taweret (goddess of fertility) to try and get some good mojo going. Jacob thinks the statue is pretty cool and decides to build a new bachelor pad in the foot. Some of these Egyptians are confronted/killed by Smokey. Jacob then meets up with these people, and helps them build a Temple that will protect them from Smokey. He also asks these people to help him protect the Candidates from Smokey. Jacob chooses someone to lead the Temple dudes. While this person is alive, Smokey cannot enter the Temple. This role is eventually passed down to Dogen. At some point the Temple guys get bored and put in a swimming pool. Jacob gives them some special sauce from The Light to add to this swimming pool, so they can heal people and stuff.
-   A long time ago: The Black Rock crashes on the Island and destroys Taweret, fortunately Jacob's bachelor pad remains intact. Richard is the sole survivor of the crash's aftermath, and after some back and forth, he decides to work for Jacob. Jacob makes Richard immortal and asks him to be Jacob's Assistant GM of People Brought to the Island. Richard accepts.
-   Between a long time ago and the 1950s: Jacob brings more people to the Island, and with Richard's help he starts a new gang called The Others. The point of The Others is for Jacob to prove to Smokey that people are inherently good and can live on the Island without messing it up. Smokey is either too disinterested to kill these people, or Jacob gives them The Secret of the Ash to protect against Smokey.
-   1950s: The US Army decides they want to test some bombs on The Island. The Others, led by two young go-getters named Charles Widmore and Ellie Hawking, kill/drive away these pesky soldiers. Thanks to some guidance from a time-traveling Daniel Faraday, Jughead is buried underground to solve the problem of radiation. All is well and The Others control the Island yet again. To celebrate their victory, Charles and Ellie bump uglies and decide to give the resulting kid (Faraday) a different last name for some reason.
-   1970s: The DHARMA Initiative finds the Island using the Mysterious Pendulum of Discovery in the Lamppost that Ellie Hawking tried to explain. They want to do some experiments and drop acid in an attempt to save the world or something. They are smart and figure out that a supersonic fence will keep Smokey out of their business. Women can have kids again for some reason, evidenced by Ethan being born. Ben and his dad show up, and Sawyer and the gang show up. Sayid shoots Ben, but Richard dips Ben in the Temple pool and Ben becomes a secret agent for the Others. Radzinsky decides to be a total douche and keep drilling when he shouldn't, and The Incident happens. Now women can't have kids and someone has to push a button every 108 minutes or the Island will release a massive electromagnetic fart. Way to go, Radzinsky.
-   1980s: Ben and Richard finally carry out Jacob's plan of killing all the DHARMA folk. Jacob was worried they would find the Light, although I'm not sure why they hadn't already. Jacob gets sick of living in the foot and moves into the quaint cabin that Stanley Goodspeed built in the woods.
-   Late 1980s: Rousseau and her team show up as Jacob's latest group of Candidates. Smokey is bored and makes some of them go crazy, and Rousseau kills them. Widmore tells Ben to kill Rousseau and her baby, because he is MAD WITH ISLAND POWER. Ben instead takes the more reasonable route of stealing the baby and raising her as his own. He then calls Widmore out for being a chump, and a few years later he takes Widmore's place as leader after finding out that Widmore was leaving the Island to make a baby (Penny).
-   2004: Jacob brings a whole bunch of Candidates to the Island with Oceanic 108. When Smokey encounters Locke and scans him, he sees that Locke is a patsy and comes to the realization that he doesn't have to kill Jacob – but he can trick someone else into doing it. Smokey sets the wheels in motion for Locke to bring everyone back, so he can take Locke's form, convince Ben to kill Jacob, round all the remaining Candidates up onto a sub, blow it up, and leave the Island. It almost work, but there are three Candidates left – Jack, Sawyer and Hurley.

And that's where we're at now.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:18:52 AM
-   1970s: The DHARMA Initiative finds the Island using the Mysterious Pendulum of Discovery in the Lamppost that Ellie Hawking tried to explain. They want to do some experiments and drop acid in an attempt to save the world or something. They are smart and figure out that a supersonic fence will keep Smokey out of their business. Women can have kids again for some reason, evidenced by Ethan being born. Ben and his dad show up, and Sawyer and the gang show up. Sayid shoots Ben, but Richard dips Ben in the Temple pool and Ben becomes a secret agent for the Others. Radzinsky decides to be a total douche and keep drilling when he shouldn't, and The Incident happens. Now women can't have kids and someone has to push a button every 108 minutes or the Island will release a massive electromagnetic fart. Way to go, Radzinsky.

Was there a rule that Smokey couldn't talk to anybody else on the island?  I don't understand the motivation as to why he would want to kill Dharma folk and force them to put up the anti-Smokey devices.  If he was "killed" because he was trying to find "the Light" and created the donkey wheel (how the hell does that do anything?), then wouldn't he want to help the Initiative with their research?  I realize they were brought to the island to maybe Candidates, but it seems like right after his death & rebirth, Smokey had no motive to be on the island except to kill everyone else who came there.  I know he wanted to get off the island, but if he's supposed to be the same guy that had a rivalry with Jacob and killed his mom, you would think he still has some interest in the pockets of electromagnetism. And for that matter, if Allison Janney stopped Smokey from putting in the donkey wheel and collapsed the well, then how is there a donkey wheel for Ben and Locke to turn?  Lastly, after that clip of Jack talking to Kate about the Smokey/Janney bones, he tells her that they're only 40-50 years old.  I'm guessing they're magic bones powered by The Light, and they eventually stop decaying?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 12, 2010, 10:40:04 AM
Jacob wants people dead?  Smokey's been doing all the killing.  And to protect The Light?  Isn't that all in Smokey now?  When MIB floated in, the light went out, didn't it?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 12, 2010, 10:40:04 AM
Jacob wants people dead?  Smokey's been doing all the killing.  And to protect The Light?  Isn't that all in Smokey now?  When MIB floated in, the light went out, didn't it?

Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.

Smokey has killed people, but has he directly killed any Candidates (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates)?

I don't think the Light went out when Smokey floated in. I'll have to rewatch that.

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 12, 2010, 10:40:04 AM
Jacob wants people dead?  Smokey's been doing all the killing.  And to protect The Light?  Isn't that all in Smokey now?  When MIB floated in, the light went out, didn't it?

Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.

Smokey has killed people, but has he directly killed any Candidates (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates)?

I don't think the Light went out when Smokey floated in. I'll have to rewatch that.



It didn't necessarily go out, but the water inside the cave turned from golden and bright to cloudy and black.  I'm guessing Smokey was "corrupting" the goodness in the world, although it seems to me that Jacob and his bitch of a mom are the evil ones, selfishly trying to keep anybody else from having fun on the island.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 12, 2010, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 12, 2010, 10:40:04 AM
Jacob wants people dead?  Smokey's been doing all the killing.  And to protect The Light?  Isn't that all in Smokey now?  When MIB floated in, the light went out, didn't it?

Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.

Smokey has killed people, but has he directly killed any Candidates (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates)?

I don't think the Light went out when Smokey floated in. I'll have to rewatch that.



It didn't necessarily go out, but the water inside the cave turned from golden and bright to cloudy and black.  I'm guessing Smokey was "corrupting" the goodness in the world, although it seems to me that Jacob and his bitch of a mom are the evil ones, selfishly trying to keep anybody else from having fun on the island.

He can't kill the Candidates.  He would like to obviously.

I would have liked for them to have shown where Jacob and MIB's "mother" came from.  She was just this magical lady on the island already with these powers? 

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 11:44:40 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 12, 2010, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 12, 2010, 10:40:04 AM
Jacob wants people dead?  Smokey's been doing all the killing.  And to protect The Light?  Isn't that all in Smokey now?  When MIB floated in, the light went out, didn't it?

Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.

Smokey has killed people, but has he directly killed any Candidates (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates)?

I don't think the Light went out when Smokey floated in. I'll have to rewatch that.



It didn't necessarily go out, but the water inside the cave turned from golden and bright to cloudy and black.  I'm guessing Smokey was "corrupting" the goodness in the world, although it seems to me that Jacob and his bitch of a mom are the evil ones, selfishly trying to keep anybody else from having fun on the island.

He can't kill the Candidates.  He would like to obviously.

I would have liked for them to have shown where Jacob and MIB's "mother" came from.  She was just this magical lady on the island already with these powers? 



I'm sure Thrill will offer up the biblical references sometime soon. Or maybe we'll just have to wait for the mother's flashback episode. I feel like them explaining Jacob/Smokey's abilities by having their not-mother grant them magical powers and using The Light was the LOST equivalent of midichlorians.

I also thought it was really stupid how they explained Jacob and Smokey not being able to kill the other one by having the mother say, "I made it so you two can't hurt each other."  They made it very clear that Jacob could beat the shit out of Smokey.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 12, 2010, 11:52:13 AM
This (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/12/lostwatch-original-sin/) is pretty much where I'm at on this episode:

QuoteIs it really, really important that you end the series knowing who Adam and Eve were? Where the black and white stones came from? Who built the frozen wheel and how it got underground? Where Jacob and the Man in Black came from and why they are rivals?  Why the Others speak Latin? If so, then "Across the Sea" let you check a whole lot of items off your list.

On the other hand, if what you want most for the last few hours of Lost is to complete the emotional and story arc of the characters whom you've been invested in for six years (as opposed to ancient, pre-psychological, quasi-divine figures you met at the end of last season), then you may have, as I did, spent too much of "Across the Sea" checking your watch, waiting for a scenery switch, or—and Lost does not often make me do this—rolling your eyes.

QuoteI'm enjoying writing about "Across the Sea," and its mythological themes, more than I actually enjoyed watching the episode.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on May 12, 2010, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 11:52:13 AM
This (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/12/lostwatch-original-sin/) is pretty much where I'm at on this episode:

[quote]Is it really, really important that you end the series knowing who Adam and Eve were? Where the black and white stones came from? Who built the frozen wheel and how it got underground? Where Jacob and the Man in Black came from and why they are rivals?  Why the Others speak Latin? If so, then "Across the Sea" let you check a whole lot of items off your list.

On the other hand, if what you want most for the last few hours of Lost is to complete the emotional and story arc of the characters whom you've been invested in for six years (as opposed to ancient, pre-psychological, quasi-divine figures you met at the end of last season), then you may have, as I did, spent too much of "Across the Sea" checking your watch, waiting for a scenery switch, or—and Lost does not often make me do this—rolling your eyes.

QuoteI'm enjoying writing about "Across the Sea," and its mythological themes, more than I actually enjoyed watching the episode.


Although, if we didn't get an episode like this, that at least answered some questions, people would be bitching about how questions about Jacob & the MIB were never answered.

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 12, 2010, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.
I'm fuzzy on the whole Ben-Jacob thing.  Ben never saw Jacob, but went to the cabin which was surrounded by dirt which we are led to believe Smokey can't get past, so Smokey can't get out of the cabin, but did somehow.

Did Jacob manipulate Ben to kill or did Smokey?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on May 12, 2010, 02:38:18 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 12, 2010, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.
I'm fuzzy on the whole Ben-Jacob thing.  Ben never saw Jacob, but went to the cabin which was surrounded by dirt which we are led to believe Smokey can't get past, so Smokey can't get out of the cabin, but did somehow.

Did Jacob manipulate Ben to kill or did Smokey?

Based on his non enthusiasm for wanting the job and it appearing , through his mother's relief in dying, that it was pretty thankless, I would say it is a strong possibility.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 12, 2010, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 11:44:40 AM
I also thought it was really stupid how they explained Jacob and Smokey not being able to kill the other one by having the mother say, "I made it so you two can't hurt each other."  They made it very clear that Jacob could beat the shit out of Smokey.

Okay, some of THIS.

Because really, Jacob did kill his brother by tossing him into the light.

So really, the rules are there, but they can be bent and even broken if needed.

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 12, 2010, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 12, 2010, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 11:44:40 AM
I also thought it was really stupid how they explained Jacob and Smokey not being able to kill the other one by having the mother say, "I made it so you two can't hurt each other."  They made it very clear that Jacob could beat the shit out of Smokey.

Okay, some of THIS.

Because really, Jacob did kill his brother by tossing him into the light.

So really, the rules are there, but they can be bent and even broken if needed.

Depends on your definition of kill. Brother's body is clearly dead. But his soul is still alive and kicking. Instead of a human body to carry him around, he's got a pillar of smoke. I believe MIB said at one point of Jacob "he took away my humanity."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 12, 2010, 02:59:06 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 02:56:03 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 12, 2010, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 12, 2010, 11:44:40 AM
I also thought it was really stupid how they explained Jacob and Smokey not being able to kill the other one by having the mother say, "I made it so you two can't hurt each other."  They made it very clear that Jacob could beat the shit out of Smokey.

Okay, some of THIS.

Because really, Jacob did kill his brother by tossing him into the light.

So really, the rules are there, but they can be bent and even broken if needed.

Depends on your definition of kill. Brother's body is clearly dead. But his soul is still alive and kicking. Instead of a human body to carry him around, he's got a pillar of smoke. I believe MIB said at one point of Jacob "he took away my humanity."

Well, either way...he clearly took the rules to be rather flexible.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 12, 2010, 03:07:14 PM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 12, 2010, 02:38:18 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 12, 2010, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Jacob enlisted Richard and Ben to wipe out all the DHARMA folk.
I'm fuzzy on the whole Ben-Jacob thing.  Ben never saw Jacob, but went to the cabin which was surrounded by dirt which we are led to believe Smokey can't get past, so Smokey can't get out of the cabin, but did somehow.

Did Jacob manipulate Ben to kill or did Smokey?

Based on his non enthusiasm for wanting the job and it appearing , through his mother's relief in dying, that it was pretty thankless, I would say it is a strong possibility.

Didn't Ben admit at some point that he took Locke to the cabin as a ruse? He was putting on a show for Locke to make Locke think that Ben was special. What Ben wasn't expecting, was that Locke would actually see something in the cabin.

As for the cabin itself, when Ilana and her goons went there at the end of last season, here's what hai:

QuoteILANA: We're here.

BRAM: Look at the ash!

ILANA: Wait here.

Bram was referring to the fact that the circle of ash was broken.

QuoteBRAM: What happened?

ILANA: He isn't there, hasn't been in a long time. Someone else has been using it. [Shouting to her team] Burn it!

I think the circle of ash was meant to keep Smokey OUT of the cabin (not sure why). At some point, the ash was broken, and Smokey used the cabin to tell Locke to move the Island. All part of his easy 58 step plan to kill Jacob.

QuoteLOCKE: Are you Jacob?

MAN: No. But I can speak on his behalf.

LOCKE: Well, who are you?

MAN: I'm Christian.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 13, 2010, 10:16:56 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 11:52:13 AM
This (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/12/lostwatch-original-sin/) is pretty much where I'm at on this episode:

QuoteIs it really, really important that you end the series knowing who Adam and Eve were? Where the black and white stones came from? Who built the frozen wheel and how it got underground? Where Jacob and the Man in Black came from and why they are rivals?  Why the Others speak Latin? If so, then "Across the Sea" let you check a whole lot of items off your list.

On the other hand, if what you want most for the last few hours of Lost is to complete the emotional and story arc of the characters whom you've been invested in for six years (as opposed to ancient, pre-psychological, quasi-divine figures you met at the end of last season), then you may have, as I did, spent too much of "Across the Sea" checking your watch, waiting for a scenery switch, or—and Lost does not often make me do this—rolling your eyes.

QuoteI'm enjoying writing about "Across the Sea," and its mythological themes, more than I actually enjoyed watching the episode.

All of THIS.  For the first time in the series, I declare that Tuesday's episode sucked.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 13, 2010, 10:16:56 AM
All of THIS.  For the first time in the series, I declare that Tuesday's episode sucked.

You must have repressed your memory of the Nikki and Paulo episode.

Beyond that...

Yeah, this episode was cheesy. And it was pretty short on action. And i thought Allison Janney and those kids were fucking awful.

It was far from my favorite episode. But I feel like it was necessary.

That's why I think this is kind of dumb:

QuoteIs it really, really important that you end the series knowing who Adam and Eve were? Where the black and white stones came from? Who built the frozen wheel and how it got underground? Where Jacob and the Man in Black came from and why they are rivals?  Why the Others speak Latin? If so, then "Across the Sea" let you check a whole lot of items off your list.

This episode was not about checking off boxes on a Gittles Laundry List.

It was about the story behind the conflict between Jacob and Smokey. It was showing us Smokey's reason for wanting to leave—showing us who he lost that he had loved.

And it was about the Light—the central fucking mystery of the island: the mysterious "something" behind all the healing, all the time travel, all the moving of the island and all the crazy phenomena Dharma was investigating.

Sure... The Light seems to lie somewhere between being a big, glowing MacGuffin that we don't actually care about and a vague, all-encompassing magical thing like The Force.

And the exact nature of it is probably completely unimportant (which, I'd note, would make it the exact opposite of "midichlorians," Weebs).

But it was still necessary that it was addressed in some fashion.

I mean, it's the very thing that's driven the whole shebang. The thing that set off the chain of events that brought Flight 815 to the island in the first place. The whole reason for everything else.

Yes, what ultimately matters most as far as the show goes is that they "complete the emotional and story arc of the characters whom [we've] been invested in for six years." But I suspect that's exactly why the writers didn't save all this cheesy bullshit for the final hour.

They pulled us out of the narrative flow for an hour to show us what it's all about, tying off what may be the the final historical loose ends. Now we have 3.5 more hours left for them to continue tying the rest of the drama together.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 02:19:40 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:18:16 AM
-   Jacob's first goal is to protect The Light/Pandora's Box/Ark of the Covenant/whatever you want to call it, because it is the source of all the good stuff in life. It can't be destroyed because then none of us would be able to take naps or eat bacon. It can't be found or exploited by Man, because then we'd become corrupt jagoffs obsessed with naps and bacon, and would eventually melt like the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Jacob achieves this goal by killing off anyone who gets too close to discovering the light.
-   Jacob's second goal is to find someone to succeed him in his role of protector. Because like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon, he's getting too old for this sh*t. Jacob attempts to achieve this goal by bringing Candidates to the Island, in the hopes of one day finding a Candidate who is righteous enough to protect The Light without being tempted to take a dip in it.
-   Jacob's motivation is to please his dead Mom, because he was always second fiddle to the smarter, specialer Brother. Jacob is kind of a weenie.

Mostly, but I'm not totally sure it's as clear cut as Mother handing off the torch to Jacob, who's now handing off the torch to someone else, ad infinitum.

Because here's the thing that interests me the most the more I think about it...

I'm sure everyone immediately recognized these words spoken by Mother:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Across_the_Sea_transcript

Quote
BOY IN BLACK: Why didn't you tell us about them?

MOTHER: Because they're dangerous and I didn't want to frighten you.

JACOB: What makes them dangerous?

MOTHER: The same thing that makes all men dangerous. They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt... and it always ends the same.

BOY IN BLACK: They come? Come from where?

MOTHER: Another part of the island. And you're never to go looking for them. If they found you, they would hurt you.

JACOB: Why would they hurt us?

MOTHER: Because they're people, Jacob, and that's what people do.

What didn't really strike me, for whatever reason, until I actually went through the transcripts was how odd this was. Because it's the rebelious son that toes the family line on the nature of man.

Even as he works to undermine her commands, Smokey still agrees with Mother.

Meanwhile, it's the son who stood by her, her heir as the island's protector, who seems to reject this view:

Quote
MAN IN BLACK: ...Why do you watch us, Jacob?

JACOB [mutters]: I watch because I wanna know if Mother's right.

MAN IN BLACK: Right about what?

JACOB: About them

MAN IN BLACK: Oh, you mean my people. You wanna know if they're bad. That woman may be insane, but she's most definitely right about that.

JACOB: I don't know. They don't seem so bad to me.

MAN IN BLACK: That's easy for you to say. Looking down on us from above. Trust me, I've lived among them for 30 years. They're greedy, manipulative, untrustworthy, and selfish.

JACOB: Then why are you with them?

MAN IN BLACK: They're a means to an end.

Flash forward some 1800-odd years and we find that Jacob's doubts are even stronger, as Smokey continues to quote the words of the mother he rebelled against and murdered...

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_%26_2_transcript

Quote
JACOB: I take it you're here 'cause of the ship.

MAN IN BLACK: I am. How did they find the Island?

JACOB: You'll have to ask 'em when they get here.

MAN IN BLACK: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?

JACOB: You are wrong.

MAN IN BLACK: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

(To be continued...)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 02:20:00 PM
So Jacob, though he took up Mother's mantle as protector of the island, doesn't seem to agree with her view of man as essentially "bad."

Of the two brothers, Smokey is more his (foster) mother's son when it comes to that cynicism.

My question is this: given their differing views on man, is Jacob's agenda different than his mother's was before him?

She did whatever she felt necessary to prevent men from finding the Light, up to and including going Stormtroopers-on-Tatooine on the village. (Somehow... Could she turn into smoke, too?)

"They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. And it always ends the same." She believs that being bad is just "what people do."

Jacob, though, has continued to deliberately bring people he's selected to the island, apparently because he continues believe otherwise.

Yeah, sometimes it still ends the same (e.g., The Purge). And yet Jacob still believes. Jacob's belief in men having the capacity to choose good continued to be borne out, up to his death at Ben's hands when he said "You have a choice."

Quote
MILES: Right up until the second the knife went through his heart, he was hoping he was wrong about you. I guess he wasn't.

More than that, he still has an end game in view. And end that we're progressing to, an end that would prove Smokey wrong.

We've been led to believe that the Candidate is destined to become the new Jacob, taking on his old role in the same way that we just saw him take on his mother's, and that things are to carry on as before. But what if that's not really the case? What if Jacob is finally approaching his finishing move in their 2000-year board game?

"It only ends once." Maybe sometime in the next 3.5 hours.

...

Now, if only I had some idea why Mother said "thank you" when Smokey dispatched her... Was it just because she wanted to finally die?

And why Smokey was/is "special"/her favorite... Is he the real story here?

Hmpf. Maybe I need to rethink everything.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 14, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
What doesn't really make sense to me is that the Mother says all men are evil, but how are Jacob/Smokey actually any different?  They're the children of some woman that wound up on the island along with all of the other evil people.  Yes, their Not-Mother made them immortal (apparently letting them age until their late-40s), but then they're still no different from someone like Richard.  Are we supposed to think that everyone is the same until they find The Light? 

I think the biggest problem with The Light is that it's just not something we needed to actually see.  The creators have said at several points that we're just supposed to understand that some things happen on the island because it's a crazy, mysterious island.  Not to mention, bringing in some magic light that causes all of these phenomenon changes the genre from Sci-Fi to Fantasy.  I would rather see them bullshit through some theory of quantum physics than see a tunnel of light that somehow is overloaded with electromagnetism and causes an island to travel through time when a wooden wheel (I guess) intersects with it.

Yes, this episode was very important to point out exactly how the Jacob/Smokey feud began, but they could have done without showing The Light tunnel.  Thinking about it more, you're right in it being the opposite of midichlorians.  With Star Wars, we didn't need a scientific explanation for a mystical force that gave the characters their powers.  With LOST, we didn't need a "magic tunnel" as the origin of number of things that have all been explained by science throughout the series.  I feel like it's basically answering every question about the scientific properties of the island with, "Because God did it."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 14, 2010, 03:05:54 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 14, 2010, 02:51:16 PMYes, their Not-Mother made them immortal (apparently letting them age until their late-40s), but then they're still no different from someone like Richard.

I think the triggering event for Jacob to stop aging was when he shared the wine with her.

For MIB, his body stopped aging because it was dead.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 14, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
Not to mention, bringing in some magic light that causes all of these phenomenon changes the genre from Sci-Fi to Fantasy.

Explain.

We've already seen: people who live forever, people who can't be killed or kill themselves until the island decides it's "through with" them, people whose cancer and paralysis are cured by an island, people who see and converse with the dead, smoke that can turn into people, a lighthouse with mirrors that allow someone to see a house thousands of miles away.

But they explain this stuff with a glowing light and all of a sudden Weebs' genres are in disarray?

Quote from: Weebs on May 14, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
I would rather see them bullshit through some theory of quantum physics than see a tunnel of light that somehow is overloaded with electromagnetism and causes an island to travel through time when a wooden wheel (I guess) intersects with it.

You see, that would be taking the midichlorian route: making up science-y bullshit to explain a mysterious force in boring, uninspiring detail.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 14, 2010, 03:09:38 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 02:20:00 PMNow, if only I had some idea why Mother said "thank you" when Smokey dispatched her... Was it just because she wanted to finally die?

I think so. She'd been playing the role of protector for a long time. She was probably ready to check out, like Richard was when he lit the dynamite.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:25:42 PM
As awful as the midichlorians (and everything about Eps. 1-3) were, my buddy had an awesome idea that Lucas was too stupid to see in Episode 3.  (pardon this aside)  Anakin was allegedly the most powerful Jedi of all time, yet when he became Vader, he was a lapdog to the Emperor and was eventually bested by his pussy of a son.  Considering Anakin had half his body burned off, wouldn't it have made sense that he lost a bunch of midichlorians along with his blood, and that was the reason he was no longer the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy?

If they were going to explain the Force as a germ, they could have at least done it better than they did.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 14, 2010, 03:27:55 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:25:42 PM
As awful as the midichlorians (and everything about Eps. 1-3) were, my buddy had an awesome idea that Lucas was too stupid to see in Episode 3.  (pardon this aside)  Anakin was allegedly the most powerful Jedi of all time, yet when he became Vader, he was a lapdog to the Emperor and was eventually bested by his pussy of a son.  Considering Anakin had half his body burned off, wouldn't it have made sense that he lost a bunch of midichlorians along with his blood, and that was the reason he was no longer the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy?

If they were going to explain the Force as a germ, they could have at least done it better than they did.

If that's the case, just think how powerful Luke would have been if he didn't lose his hand.  Maybe his hand had all of the Dark Side midichlorians.  #ImagineThePossibilities
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: CT III on May 14, 2010, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:25:42 PM
As awful as the midichlorians (and everything about Eps. 1-3) were, my buddy had an awesome idea that Lucas was too stupid to see in Episode 3.  (pardon this aside)  Anakin was allegedly the most powerful Jedi of all time, yet when he became Vader, he was a lapdog to the Emperor and was eventually bested by his pussy of a son.  Considering Anakin had half his body burned off, wouldn't it have made sense that he lost a bunch of midichlorians along with his blood, and that was the reason he was no longer the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy?

If they were going to explain the Force as a germ, they could have at least done it better than they did.

He was the most powerful Jedi of all time?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 14, 2010, 03:31:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:25:42 PM
As awful as the midichlorians (and everything about Eps. 1-3) were, my buddy had an awesome idea that Lucas was too stupid to see in Episode 3.  (pardon this aside)  Anakin was allegedly the most powerful Jedi of all time, yet when he became Vader, he was a lapdog to the Emperor and was eventually bested by his pussy of a son.  Considering Anakin had half his body burned off, wouldn't it have made sense that he lost a bunch of midichlorians along with his blood, and that was the reason he was no longer the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy?

I believe in the Ep 3 Lucas commentary, he says just this.  The reason he's the Emperor's lacky is that he's not as strong with the force due to lack of midichlorians.

But, since Obi Wan and Qui Gon both talk about the concentration of midi's in Ep 1, and Yoda says taht "size matters not," wouldn't the lack of body parts not actually change the concentration and leave Anikin wthe the same level of Force mastery?

Lucas is still stupid.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:32:01 PM
Quote from: CT III on May 14, 2010, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:25:42 PM
As awful as the midichlorians (and everything about Eps. 1-3) were, my buddy had an awesome idea that Lucas was too stupid to see in Episode 3.  (pardon this aside)  Anakin was allegedly the most powerful Jedi of all time, yet when he became Vader, he was a lapdog to the Emperor and was eventually bested by his pussy of a son.  Considering Anakin had half his body burned off, wouldn't it have made sense that he lost a bunch of midichlorians along with his blood, and that was the reason he was no longer the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy?

If they were going to explain the Force as a germ, they could have at least done it better than they did.

He was the most powerful Jedi of all time?

Didn't he have the highest midichlorian count, or something?  Ah, who cares?  Fuck George Lucas.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 03:33:41 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:32:01 PM
Ah, who cares?  Fuck George Lucas.

That.

Let's not do this.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on May 14, 2010, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:32:01 PM
Quote from: CT III on May 14, 2010, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:25:42 PM
As awful as the midichlorians (and everything about Eps. 1-3) were, my buddy had an awesome idea that Lucas was too stupid to see in Episode 3.  (pardon this aside)  Anakin was allegedly the most powerful Jedi of all time, yet when he became Vader, he was a lapdog to the Emperor and was eventually bested by his pussy of a son.  Considering Anakin had half his body burned off, wouldn't it have made sense that he lost a bunch of midichlorians along with his blood, and that was the reason he was no longer the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy?

If they were going to explain the Force as a germ, they could have at least done it better than they did.

He was the most powerful Jedi of all time?

Didn't he have the highest midichlorian count, or something?  Ah, who cares?  Fuck George Lucas.

This.

The whole midichlorian thing is insanely stupid.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: CT III on May 14, 2010, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 03:33:41 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 14, 2010, 03:32:01 PM
Ah, who cares?  Fuck George Lucas.

That.

Let's not do this.

I disagree, let's do this.

Hayden Christiansen may have been the most miscast actor ever.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 14, 2010, 03:36:12 PM
This is all Weebs' fault, right?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 03:37:54 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 14, 2010, 03:36:12 PM
This is all Weebs' fault, right?

For not understanding the reason midichlorians suck?

Yes.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 05:31:04 PM
Okay. Now for the really obnoxious posts.

About that Light...

Quote from: R-V on May 12, 2010, 10:18:16 AM
Jacob's first goal is to protect The Light/Pandora's Box/Ark of the Covenant/whatever you want to call it, because it is the source of all the good stuff in life. It can't be destroyed because then none of us would be able to take naps or eat bacon. It can't be found or exploited by Man, because then we'd become corrupt jagoffs obsessed with naps and bacon, and would eventually melt like the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

All great. I like the Ark of the Covenant comparison.

Maybe it's even something bigger: something as amorphous and all-encompassing as "God him/itself"—again, kind of like the Force. Is there a God down that hole?

(Actually, the Ark of the Covenant is said to be God's "footstool" on Earth. Wherever the Ark is, that's where God resides.)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Across_the_Sea_transcript

Quote
MOTHER: Don't go in there.

BOY IN BLACK: What's down there?

MOTHER: Light. The warmest, brightest light you've ever seen or felt. And we must make sure that no one ever finds it.

BOY IN BLACK: It's beautiful...

MOTHER: Yes it is. And that's why they want it. Because a little bit of this very same light is inside of every man. But they always want more.

JACOB: Can they take it?

MOTHER: No. But they would try. And if they tried they could put it out. And if the light goes out here... it goes out everywhere. And so I've protected this place. But I can't protect it forever.

BOY IN BLACK: Then who will?

MOTHER: It will have to be one of you.

Quote
JACOB: What's down there?

MOTHER: Life, death, rebirth. It's the source, the heart of the island.

The comparisons I kept going to while watching were:

a) The Tree of Life and The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil planted in the middle of the garden of Eden, watered by a river.

b) The fire of the gods.


First, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, from which Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+2&version=NIV

QuoteNow the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

...

And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3&version=NIV

QuoteNow the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

After Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the fruit of that tree and got kicked out of Eden, God denied them access to the fruit of the other tree...

QuoteAnd the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

The fruit of the first tree gave man god-like knowledge. Effectively, it's what gave humans their consciousness, separate from the godhead, and free-will. Getting booted from Eden also marks the birth of agriculture.

The fruit of the second tree grants eternal life, but good luck getting past the guard.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 05:32:05 PM
Second, the fire of the gods...

I've been more or less convinced to stay on Jacob's side of things for a while now. But in the back of my mind there's always been a sense that everything could still flip-flop along these lines...

Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 24, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: R-V on February 23, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
So is anyone else squarely on the side of the Man in Black in this upcoming rumble? The recurring theme throughout all these flashsideways is that all these people would be just fine if not for Jacob and his sneaky meddling.

I'm not so sure.

On the one hand, I've been prepared for a "the evil guy is good" twist for a while now.

Even if EvilLocke is a Satan type, there's plenty of room to look at him the other way around as a hero to man. Like Prometheus, who stole the fire from the Gods for man, Satan in the Garden of Eden can be viewed as a liberating figure, opening men's eyes to their free will through the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

...

And, in this episode, Smokey felt like he had a serious Prometheus-stealing-fire-from-the-gods thing going on. (Which, again, isn't necessarily inconsistent with him being a Satan type. More on that in a moment.)

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0132:card=42

QuoteFor the gods keep hidden from men the means of life. Else you would easily do work enough in a day to supply you for a full year even without working; soon would you put away your rudder over the smoke, and the fields worked by ox and sturdy mule would run to waste. But Zeus in the anger of his heart hid it, because Prometheus the crafty deceived him; therefore he planned sorrow and mischief against men. He hid fire; but that the noble son of Iapetus stole again for men from Zeus the counsellor in a hollow fennel-stalk, so that Zeus who delights in thunder did not see it. But afterwards Zeus who gathers the clouds said to him in anger: "Son of Iapetus, surpassing all in cunning, you are glad that you have outwitted me and stolen fire—a great plague to you yourself and to men that shall be. But I will give men as the price for fire an evil thing in which they may all be glad of heart while they embrace their own destruction."

(Incidentally, that "evil thing" created to bring men to destruction? Woman. [ high-fives Yeti ])

Prometheus is a prototypical "culture hero."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_hero

QuoteA culture hero is a mythological hero specific to some group (cultural, ethnic, racial, religious, etc.) who changes the world through invention or discovery. A typical culture hero might be credited as the discoverer of fire, or agriculture, songs, tradition and religion, and is usually the most important legendary figure of a people, sometimes as the founder of its ruling dynasty.

In fact, he secures mankind much more than fire. Not least of all, he created man in the first place. And, in "Prometheus Bound," he's proclaimed "universal succour of mankind"...

http://classics.mit.edu/Aeschylus/prometheus.html

QuoteBut hear the sequel and the more admire
What arts, what aids I cleverly evolved.
The chiefest that, if any man fell sick,
There was no help for him, comestible,
Lotion or potion; but for lack of drugs
They dwindled quite away; until I taught them
To compound draughts and mixtures sanative,
Wherewith they now are armed against disease.
I staked the winding path of divination
And was the first distinguisher of dreams,
The true from false; and voices ominous
Of meaning dark interpreted; and tokens
Seen when men take the road; and augury
By flight of all the greater crook-clawed birds
With nice discrimination I defined;
These by their nature fair and favourable,
Those, flattered with fair name. And of each sort
The habits I described; their mutual feuds
And friendships and the assemblages they hold.
And of the plumpness of the inward parts
What colour is acceptable to the Gods,
The well-streaked liver-lobe and gall-bladder.
Also by roasting limbs well wrapped in fat
And the long chine, I led men on the road
Of dark and riddling knowledge; and I purged
The glancing eye of fire, dim before,
And made its meaning plain. These are my works.
Then, things beneath the earth, aids hid from man,
Brass, iron, silver, gold, who dares to say
He was before me in discovering?
None, I wot well, unless he loves to babble.
And in a single word to sum the whole-
All manner of arts men from Prometheus learned.

And for this he is punished by Zeus: chained to a rock (trapped) until he was set free by another great hero to man, Heracles (incidentally, Zeus' favorite son).
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 05:32:30 PM
Going back to Eden, then...

We've talked about Smokey as Satan or Satan-like alot.

The flipside of Satan as the paragon of evil (tempting Adam and Eve to sin against God) is Satan as a rebellious "culture hero" (in the mold of Prometheus), who grants man the gift of a god-like knowledge that God is trying to deny them. The "fall" of man was occasioned by the birth of human consciousness and free-will (both man's blessing and his curse), and saw the dawn of human civilization.

Perhaps it is "in [man's] very nature to sin" (as Jacob claims Smokey believes). But, by the same token, it's human nature to strive towards god-like knowledge. To fly too close to the sun on those wings of pastrami.

QuoteMAN IN BLACK: There are very smart men among us. Men who are curious about how things work.

In both the stories of Prometheus and Eden, this striving and the sin of disobedience to God are directly intertwined.

Now, if the writers of Lost indeed looked to Satan as a model for the Man in Black (and I still think that's a big part of his character), a major source for them would have likely been Lucifer (the "light-bearer") in Milton's "Paradise Lost." As it turns out, the connection between Lucifer and Prometheus is particularly pronounced in Milton's poem. Pronounced enough to inspire an entire vein of literary criticism on the topic...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_and_Prometheus
http://books.google.com/books?id=MsR909HjyGkC&printsec=frontcover

QuoteIt thus happens that Prometheus, the sinner and culture-hero, can be detected in the Satan of Paradise Lost. Milton's Satan has absorbed so many Promethean qualities that we are in danger of admiring him and sympathizing with him. Satan is in trespass and thus sinful; but at the same time he represents our (Greek and unregenerate) aspiration towards new and higher levels of existence, our human battle against heavy and indifferent odds.

What pushes against this tack a bit for me is the fact that Smokey doesn't seem to give a shit about the people he lives and works with. Yeah, he's helping them find this amazingly awesome Light that Not-Mother and Jacob won't trust them with. (And later on, he presents himself as a liberating figure to Sawyer and his other recruits, freeing them from the island and from Jacob's manipulations.)

But, while Prometheus was a hero to men for siding with them against a tyranical God who wanted to kill them all, Smokey's not really doing it for them as much as he's using their curiosity and industry to get himself off of the island.

In fact, he has nothing but contempt for the people he's lived with for over two thirds of his life.

That seems far from "heroic."

All that said, he's now a kind of tragic (and increasingly sympathetic) figure...

Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on February 23, 2010, 11:39:31 AM
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Substitute_transcript

QuoteLOCKE: What I am is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't even remember what it feels like to be free. Maybe you can understand that. But before I was trapped, I was a man, James. Just like you.

SAWYER: I'm havin' a hard time believin' that...

LOCKE: You can believe whatever you want, that's the truth. I know what it's like to feel joy... to feel pain, anger, fear... to experience betrayal. I know what it's like to lose someone you love.

Not to mention "special."

So I'm kind of starting to pull for him. A bit.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on May 14, 2010, 06:49:09 PM
wtf
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 08:38:34 PM
Quote from: Yeti on May 14, 2010, 06:49:09 PM
wtf

Don't try to pretend you didn't expect this.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on May 14, 2010, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 08:38:34 PM
Quote from: Yeti on May 14, 2010, 06:49:09 PM
wtf

Don't try to pretend you didn't expect this.

I'm still in shock of how much you know about the bible. It's unreal
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 14, 2010, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: Yeti on May 14, 2010, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 08:38:34 PM
Quote from: Yeti on May 14, 2010, 06:49:09 PM
wtf

Don't try to pretend you didn't expect this.

I'm still in shock of how much you know about the bible. It's unreal

The internet is a wonderful tool to look stuff up.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 14, 2010, 11:07:54 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 05:32:30 PMSo I'm kind of starting to pull for him. A bit.

Yup. I understand that current-day Jacob now has a couple thousand years of maturity under his belt and presumably is no longer a petulant child who believes whatever his "all knowing" mama tells him. But as a godless heathen I can't help but admire MIB's scientific ingenuity and curiosity going back to olden times. I hope the smoke of science wins out over the man of faith.

Also, I would like to subscribe to your theological newsletter. Where should I send the money order?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on May 17, 2010, 12:28:42 PM
Did anyone else laugh at the star wipe sound effect when they started speaking English after RealMom and FakeMom were about to spit out some special kids?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Quality Start Machine on May 17, 2010, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on May 14, 2010, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: Yeti on May 14, 2010, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 14, 2010, 08:38:34 PM
Quote from: Yeti on May 14, 2010, 06:49:09 PM
wtf

Don't try to pretend you didn't expect this.

I'm still in shock of how much you know about the bible. It's unreal

The internet is a wonderful tool to look stuff up.

You're a wonderful tool.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 18, 2010, 09:19:13 PM
So if Desmond is a "fail-safe," and MIB wants to use him to destroy the island, does that mean Desmond may actually be working for MIB in the alt-timeline?  Or could Alt-Desmond and Real-Jack both be working simultaneously in the different timelines to keep MIB from destroying the world?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 20, 2010, 09:11:27 AM
One post? From Weebs? In an episode that included:

- Richard getting speared in a high noon showdown with Smokey
- Smokey getting slicey with TinotFey
- Ben pumping Widmore full of hot lead
- AltDesmond pulling the strings to bring everyone together
- People finally sitting down and asking WHY! [/Chuck]
- Jacob giving answers that fit in nicely with the overall puzzle (Jacob crossing moms off his candidate list makes sense given his status as a mama's boy)
- Jack stepping up to take over for Jacob, and doing it without coming off like the self-important douche Jack has been in previous seasons

I don't get this thread inactivity at all. Sure it was a setup episode for the reality-colliding finale, but it was great entertainment on its own merits. The only improvement I would've suggested is that AltDesmond should've pulled his shades down and winked at the camera after each step of his zany caper to bring everyone together.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 23, 2010, 09:35:07 AM
Here.
We.
Go.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 10:00:39 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 20, 2010, 09:11:27 AM
I don't get this thread inactivity at all.

We talked about it in the shoutbox a bit. We agreed that Desmond is the shit.

I think we also agreed that TDubbs may be very right that AltJuliet is AltJack's ex-wife, leading us to...

Quote from: R-V on May 20, 2010, 09:11:27 AM
Sure it was a setup episode for the reality-colliding finale...

Can't wait. There's gotta be a shitload of mirrors.

Whether she's AltJack's former missus or not, I expect AltJuliet to be at the concert tonight in some capacity so that she and AltSawyer (either dragged there by AltMiles or chasing down the fugitives) can have their AltHurley-and-AltLibby-style crossover love connection.

Who else will be at the concert and how will they get there?

AltJack will be there for David along with AltClaire. AltHurley, AltKate, AltSayid and AltDesmond are going together.

AltWidmore, AltEllie and AltPenny will be in attendence (their benefit), while AltFarraday and AltCholly perform. It's at AltMiles' dad's museum (that is, AltChang), for which AltCharlotte works.

I'd imagine AltHurley will have AltLibby for a date.

Will AltLocke be there? (And what of AltJack potentially helping AltLocke walk again in the alt-timeline even as Jack-ob fights EvilLocke in the original?)

Will we maybe see AltDogen again? Is AltAlex a musician? If she's there to perform, that could get AltBen and AltRousseau. Malcolm David Kelley's too old for 2004, but AltMichael? AltLapidus?

Finally, TEC and I agreed that, at the very least, there needs to be some excuse made for AltArzt to be there, too. (Maybe whatever gets AltBen there snags him as well.)

Am I missing anyone?

As far as the end game goes, I'm still holding out for a bit of ManInBlack redemption. I've never gotten to the point of wanting him to actually win (particularly now that the writers have gone to such lengths to make it clear that he's eeeeeeeeeevil). But I am more sympathetic to him as a character than I was to Jacob. So I need a little "there's good in him yet" moment a la Darth Vader at the end of Jedi or something similar.

Maybe even something as small as him embracing his own death (as the next best thing to "winning") by saying "thank you" when he finally goes, just like dear old crazy mom.

I also hope Jack is growing out a sweet beard again.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 06:31:06 PM
T minus 4 hours from Chuck, Pen and Weebs bitching about how it all ended.

I don't know if anyone else is watching the pre-End Lost special on ABC right now, but listening to Daniel Dae Kim talk is a trip. I already knew the guy was raised in the States, but he sounds nothing at all like Jin.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 06:31:06 PM
T minus 4 hours from Chuck, Pen and Weebs bitching about how it all ended.

I don't know if anyone else is watching the pre-End Lost special on ABC right now, but listening to Daniel Dae Kim talk is a trip. I already knew the guy was raised in the States, but he sounds nothing at all like Jin.

Naveen Andrews sounds like a big British homo.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on May 23, 2010, 07:23:49 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 06:31:06 PM
T minus 4 hours from Chuck, Pen and Weebs bitching about how it all ended.

I don't know if anyone else is watching the pre-End Lost special on ABC right now, but listening to Daniel Dae Kim talk is a trip. I already knew the guy was raised in the States, but he sounds nothing at all like Jin.

Yea. I'm loving this summary. It's a nice tribute to the show. The Lostograms people sent are gay, but this all comes from a guy who just got into it right after the finale last season
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 08:37:36 PM
Lapidus!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 08:46:33 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 08:37:36 PM
Lapidus!

This finale is the balls so far.  Can't wait to see how it all plays out.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 08:46:33 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 08:37:36 PM
Lapidus!

This finale is the balls so far.  Can't wait to see how it all plays out.

Awesome piled on awesome.

So... Is the alt-timeline Jacob's backup plan/winning move?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 09:15:51 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 08:46:33 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 08:37:36 PM
Lapidus!

This finale is the balls so far.  Can't wait to see how it all plays out.

Awesome piled on awesome.

So... Is the alt-timeline Jacob's backup plan/winning move?

I don't think so.  I think everybody on the island is dead.  The flash-sideways world is actually some kind of "purgatory," and Desmond is helping everybody cross over.

Or, maybe, they've always been dead.  The key point here is that everybody on the island winds up dead in the end.  I think these flashes they have in the sideways world are actually them realizing they've died.  Now they're doing...something...maybe their whole purpose is to help Rose, Bernard and Vincent live!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 09:25:08 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 09:15:51 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 08:46:33 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 08:37:36 PM
Lapidus!

This finale is the balls so far.  Can't wait to see how it all plays out.

Awesome piled on awesome.

So... Is the alt-timeline Jacob's backup plan/winning move?

I don't think so.  I think everybody on the island is dead.  The flash-sideways world is actually some kind of "purgatory," and Desmond is helping everybody cross over.

Or, maybe, they've always been dead.  The key point here is that everybody on the island winds up dead in the end.  I think these flashes they have in the sideways world are actually them realizing they've died.  Now they're doing...something...maybe their whole purpose is to help Rose, Bernard and Vincent live!

I just meant that, while EvilLocke thinks he's won, maybe Jacob still has a move to play.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 09:28:57 PM
Namely: Desmond.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 09:32:19 PM
Well EvilLocke has sort of lost. And I'm starting to think more and more that all of these people are dead. The flash sideways world is what they all see when they die, their ideal lives, and now they have to move on. "See ya in another life, brotha."  
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Tinker to Evers to Chance on May 23, 2010, 10:17:27 PM
(http://basicinstructions.squarespace.com/storage/2010-05-19-lost.gif)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 10:30:12 PM
He shoots and he scores!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Canadouche on May 23, 2010, 10:43:06 PM
Quote from: Weebs on May 23, 2010, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 23, 2010, 06:31:06 PM
T minus 4 hours from Chuck, Pen and Weebs bitching about how it all ended.

I don't know if anyone else is watching the pre-End Lost special on ABC right now, but listening to Daniel Dae Kim talk is a trip. I already knew the guy was raised in the States, but he sounds nothing at all like Jin.

Naveen Andrews sounds like a big British homo.

... who is, in reality, a big British Couga Hunta.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 23, 2010, 10:44:20 PM
Loved it. A supremely entertaining 2.5 hours of television and a fitting final shot.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on May 23, 2010, 11:04:55 PM
I can only hope the discussion of the Jimmy Kimmel after-show is as spirited.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 08:56:04 AM
So how awesome was the clifftop showdown with Jack leaping down to tackle Locke? Also, thi (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/23/lostwatch-all-of-this-matters/):

QuoteYou could argue that the Flash Sideways was entirely unnecessary. You know what? You would be right. On a plot level, you did not need it at all. It had no direct bearing on what happened on the Island. It turned out that, unlike what some of us thought (including maybe Island Desmond), Sideways Desmond's efforts to "awaken" his friends had no bearing on saving the Island or defeating Locke. You could have simply picked up season six in 2007, had everyone realize that Juliet's smacking the bomb did not undo the Oceanic crash, and ended the series with Jack dying and a few of his friends escaping.

You could, but you would have given up an emotionally powerful ending whose spirituality--though it may rankle some as Battlestar Galactica's ending did--bothered this big fat secular agnostic not one bit. To me, the closing of Lost was not telling me that I do or do not have an immortal soul; it was telling me what these characters lives meant. And that meaning, like all our lives' meaning, derived from the interactions they had with, and the memories they shared with, other people.

You could take that literally, as in: this is a picture of what happens when you die. Or you could take it metaphorically, as in: this is a story using spiritual imagery to depict the lasting legacy of human contact. (I personally see it that way, in the same way that I believe that religious scriptures are not literally true and yet are some of our most powerful and important stories regardless. Your mileage may vary, as they say on the Internet.)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 09:04:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 08:56:04 AM
So how awesome was the clifftop showdown with Jack leaping down to tackle Locke? Also, thi (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/23/lostwatch-all-of-this-matters/):

QuoteYou could argue that the Flash Sideways was entirely unnecessary. You know what? You would be right. On a plot level, you did not need it at all. It had no direct bearing on what happened on the Island. It turned out that, unlike what some of us thought (including maybe Island Desmond), Sideways Desmond's efforts to "awaken" his friends had no bearing on saving the Island or defeating Locke. You could have simply picked up season six in 2007, had everyone realize that Juliet's smacking the bomb did not undo the Oceanic crash, and ended the series with Jack dying and a few of his friends escaping.

You could, but you would have given up an emotionally powerful ending whose spirituality--though it may rankle some as Battlestar Galactica's ending did--bothered this big fat secular agnostic not one bit. To me, the closing of Lost was not telling me that I do or do not have an immortal soul; it was telling me what these characters lives meant. And that meaning, like all our lives' meaning, derived from the interactions they had with, and the memories they shared with, other people.

You could take that literally, as in: this is a picture of what happens when you die. Or you could take it metaphorically, as in: this is a story using spiritual imagery to depict the lasting legacy of human contact. (I personally see it that way, in the same way that I believe that religious scriptures are not literally true and yet are some of our most powerful and important stories regardless. Your mileage may vary, as they say on the Internet.)

My only problem I had with the finale wasn't that the reveal of the Sideways world was unnecessary, but that all of the events leading up to it were.  I'm guessing if we go back and re-watch season 6, knowing what we know, that some of the Sideways events will start to make sense in the context of some kind of "afterlife," but right now they all just seem like a way to confuse the viewers until we finally figured out what was going on.  Why did Jack have a kid in this life? Why did we have to see Sun get kidnapped and Sayid shoot some guys?  Why did we have to watch Sawyer's date with Charlotte?  I'm sure there's an interpretation of the world where it all makes perfect sense, but right now it just seems like all of the Sideways events were unnecessary distractions to string us along until we realized everybody was dead.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 09:10:01 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 09:04:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 08:56:04 AM
So how awesome was the clifftop showdown with Jack leaping down to tackle Locke? Also, thi (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/23/lostwatch-all-of-this-matters/):

QuoteYou could argue that the Flash Sideways was entirely unnecessary. You know what? You would be right. On a plot level, you did not need it at all. It had no direct bearing on what happened on the Island. It turned out that, unlike what some of us thought (including maybe Island Desmond), Sideways Desmond's efforts to "awaken" his friends had no bearing on saving the Island or defeating Locke. You could have simply picked up season six in 2007, had everyone realize that Juliet's smacking the bomb did not undo the Oceanic crash, and ended the series with Jack dying and a few of his friends escaping.

You could, but you would have given up an emotionally powerful ending whose spirituality--though it may rankle some as Battlestar Galactica's ending did--bothered this big fat secular agnostic not one bit. To me, the closing of Lost was not telling me that I do or do not have an immortal soul; it was telling me what these characters lives meant. And that meaning, like all our lives' meaning, derived from the interactions they had with, and the memories they shared with, other people.

You could take that literally, as in: this is a picture of what happens when you die. Or you could take it metaphorically, as in: this is a story using spiritual imagery to depict the lasting legacy of human contact. (I personally see it that way, in the same way that I believe that religious scriptures are not literally true and yet are some of our most powerful and important stories regardless. Your mileage may vary, as they say on the Internet.)

My only problem I had with the finale wasn't that the reveal of the Sideways world was unnecessary, but that all of the events leading up to it were.  I'm guessing if we go back and re-watch season 6, knowing what we know, that some of the Sideways events will start to make sense in the context of some kind of "afterlife," but right now they all just seem like a way to confuse the viewers until we finally figured out what was going on.  Why did Jack have a kid in this life? Why did we have to see Sun get kidnapped and Sayid shoot some guys?  Why did we have to watch Sawyer's date with Charlotte?  I'm sure there's an interpretation of the world where it all makes perfect sense, but right now it just seems like all of the Sideways events were unnecessary distractions to string us along until we realized everybody was dead.

Obviously there was an element of stringing people along with a mystery. That's what Lost is, a mystery show. But the "why" is pretty simple - setting off the bomb worked. They got to experience what their lives would've been like if 815 had never crashed, if Ben & Juliet would've never gone to the island.

The only catch is that they didn't get to play out this version of reality until they were dead.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 09:17:47 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 09:10:01 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 09:04:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 08:56:04 AM
So how awesome was the clifftop showdown with Jack leaping down to tackle Locke? Also, thi (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/23/lostwatch-all-of-this-matters/):

QuoteYou could argue that the Flash Sideways was entirely unnecessary. You know what? You would be right. On a plot level, you did not need it at all. It had no direct bearing on what happened on the Island. It turned out that, unlike what some of us thought (including maybe Island Desmond), Sideways Desmond's efforts to "awaken" his friends had no bearing on saving the Island or defeating Locke. You could have simply picked up season six in 2007, had everyone realize that Juliet's smacking the bomb did not undo the Oceanic crash, and ended the series with Jack dying and a few of his friends escaping.

You could, but you would have given up an emotionally powerful ending whose spirituality--though it may rankle some as Battlestar Galactica's ending did--bothered this big fat secular agnostic not one bit. To me, the closing of Lost was not telling me that I do or do not have an immortal soul; it was telling me what these characters lives meant. And that meaning, like all our lives' meaning, derived from the interactions they had with, and the memories they shared with, other people.

You could take that literally, as in: this is a picture of what happens when you die. Or you could take it metaphorically, as in: this is a story using spiritual imagery to depict the lasting legacy of human contact. (I personally see it that way, in the same way that I believe that religious scriptures are not literally true and yet are some of our most powerful and important stories regardless. Your mileage may vary, as they say on the Internet.)

My only problem I had with the finale wasn't that the reveal of the Sideways world was unnecessary, but that all of the events leading up to it were.  I'm guessing if we go back and re-watch season 6, knowing what we know, that some of the Sideways events will start to make sense in the context of some kind of "afterlife," but right now they all just seem like a way to confuse the viewers until we finally figured out what was going on.  Why did Jack have a kid in this life? Why did we have to see Sun get kidnapped and Sayid shoot some guys?  Why did we have to watch Sawyer's date with Charlotte?  I'm sure there's an interpretation of the world where it all makes perfect sense, but right now it just seems like all of the Sideways events were unnecessary distractions to string us along until we realized everybody was dead.

Obviously there was an element of stringing people along with a mystery. That's what Lost is, a mystery show. But the "why" is pretty simple - setting off the bomb worked. They got to experience what their lives would've been like if 815 had never crashed, if Ben & Juliet would've never gone to the island.

The only catch is that they didn't get to play out this version of reality until they were dead.

Well I get that, but why did the bomb put everything into effect?  Detonating it was supposed to actually put them back in LAX, alive.  It was supposed to be a reset switch for everything.  I guess we're supposed to interpret it as more of a symbolic act, where the bomb explosion was the point at which everyone decided to have their class reunion in the afterlife?  I have no problem with them stringing us along for the mystery with all the flash-sideways events, but I'd just like to know what was going on there actually had some purpose, and that there was a reason why nobody would remember their other lives until something triggered them.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 09:43:58 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 09:17:47 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 09:10:01 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 09:04:52 AM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 08:56:04 AM
So how awesome was the clifftop showdown with Jack leaping down to tackle Locke? Also, thi (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/23/lostwatch-all-of-this-matters/):

QuoteYou could argue that the Flash Sideways was entirely unnecessary. You know what? You would be right. On a plot level, you did not need it at all. It had no direct bearing on what happened on the Island. It turned out that, unlike what some of us thought (including maybe Island Desmond), Sideways Desmond's efforts to "awaken" his friends had no bearing on saving the Island or defeating Locke. You could have simply picked up season six in 2007, had everyone realize that Juliet's smacking the bomb did not undo the Oceanic crash, and ended the series with Jack dying and a few of his friends escaping.

You could, but you would have given up an emotionally powerful ending whose spirituality--though it may rankle some as Battlestar Galactica's ending did--bothered this big fat secular agnostic not one bit. To me, the closing of Lost was not telling me that I do or do not have an immortal soul; it was telling me what these characters lives meant. And that meaning, like all our lives' meaning, derived from the interactions they had with, and the memories they shared with, other people.

You could take that literally, as in: this is a picture of what happens when you die. Or you could take it metaphorically, as in: this is a story using spiritual imagery to depict the lasting legacy of human contact. (I personally see it that way, in the same way that I believe that religious scriptures are not literally true and yet are some of our most powerful and important stories regardless. Your mileage may vary, as they say on the Internet.)

My only problem I had with the finale wasn't that the reveal of the Sideways world was unnecessary, but that all of the events leading up to it were.  I'm guessing if we go back and re-watch season 6, knowing what we know, that some of the Sideways events will start to make sense in the context of some kind of "afterlife," but right now they all just seem like a way to confuse the viewers until we finally figured out what was going on.  Why did Jack have a kid in this life? Why did we have to see Sun get kidnapped and Sayid shoot some guys?  Why did we have to watch Sawyer's date with Charlotte?  I'm sure there's an interpretation of the world where it all makes perfect sense, but right now it just seems like all of the Sideways events were unnecessary distractions to string us along until we realized everybody was dead.

Obviously there was an element of stringing people along with a mystery. That's what Lost is, a mystery show. But the "why" is pretty simple - setting off the bomb worked. They got to experience what their lives would've been like if 815 had never crashed, if Ben & Juliet would've never gone to the island.

The only catch is that they didn't get to play out this version of reality until they were dead.

Well I get that, but why did the bomb put everything into effect?  Detonating it was supposed to actually put them back in LAX, alive.  It was supposed to be a reset switch for everything.  I guess we're supposed to interpret it as more of a symbolic act, where the bomb explosion was the point at which everyone decided to have their class reunion in the afterlife?  I have no problem with them stringing us along for the mystery with all the flash-sideways events, but I'd just like to know what was going on there actually had some purpose, and that there was a reason why nobody would remember their other lives until something triggered them.

I don't know why the bomb did it. Who put the bathtub plug down there that Desmond pulled out and Jack put back in? Who knows? I don't care. Some science stuff happened. Or some religious stuff happened. Whatever. The purpose of the flash-sideways was that everyone was dicking around in some sort of limbo, living what they thought to be their ideal lives or something close to it. They couldn't 'move on' until they accepted what actually happened in their real lives.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 11:27:56 AM
Quote from: Weebs on May 07, 2010, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on May 07, 2010, 02:12:28 PM
Finally watched last night.
Why is everyone so sure Lapidus is dead?

Any confirmation anywhere?

I'm thinking it was the part where he got nailed by a submarine door and then it flooded with water, sinking to the bottom of the ocean.  I don't know though.  I might just be over-analyzing.

Totally satisfying final episode.

Also, Weebs was wrong.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 11:39:45 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

I would agree with THIS if they were actually dead on the island.  That's what they said they would never do.  But they were dead in the alt-universe.  That's fair.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:40:36 AM
Points:

I told you dicks Lapidus wasn't "dead."

Also, did I ever need to see Boone and Shannon again?  No.  No, I did not.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:42:24 AM
DPointD:

So, in Kate's ideal world, she's still a dirty, unwashed criminal?  Has she just not told me how much it pays yet?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: CT III on May 24, 2010, 11:45:54 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

You should go back and unwatch the previous 6 seasons.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 11:50:46 AM
Despite everything else...I'm just kind of glad this is over now and I can have my life back.

It was an entertaining 6 years, some of the best television I've ever seen at certain peaks, along with definitely the most confusing TV as well.

But now, after all this time, I'm just glad to move on.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.

Kerm, you do understand that everything they've shown in the 6 seasons actually happened, right? The sideways/waystation stories happened AFTER they were dead.

The end was a guy closing his eye after he watched a plane full of his friends get the hell off the island thanks to what he did. The beginning was a guy opening his eye after a plane crash of a group of strangers. I don't give a shit if they thought of the ending during season 1, after season 5, or whilst taking a dump last month. It was a cool and appropriate ending.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:58:04 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.

I know, but it still seemed cheap and easy.  It's like the writers had their "surprise" ending spoiled by the fans, so they created the alt-universe and made THOSE versions dead.  I have a very hard time believing that they knew 2 years ago what was going to happen in the finale, and I thought it was pretty obvious over the course of the final season.

And, for the last time, I am NOT watching V.  Go back to being dead to me, ABC.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.

Kerm, you do understand that everything they've shown in the 6 seasons actually happened, right? The sideways/waystation stories happened AFTER they were dead.

The end was a guy closing his eye after he watched a plane full of his friends get the hell off the island thanks to what he did. The beginning was a guy opening his eye after a plane crash of a group of strangers. I don't give a shit if they thought of the ending during season 1, after season 5, or whilst taking a dump last month. It was a cool and appropriate ending.

Yeah, I get that.  But then how come Sawyer and Kate have waystation stories?  They didn't die on the island.  Hell, neither did Locke.  Nor Hurley.  If that's the correct interpretation, then the writers were sloppy.

I liked the eye thing.  I liked several moments during the episode (mostly the comment that Jack was the "obvious" choice).  But I thought it was a huge disappointment.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Tinker to Evers to Chance on May 24, 2010, 12:04:59 PM
I'm just pissed that Alt-Artz didn't show up at the end.  It left me feeling hollow and dead inside.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:05:27 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.

Kerm, you do understand that everything they've shown in the 6 seasons actually happened, right? The sideways/waystation stories happened AFTER they were dead.

The end was a guy closing his eye after he watched a plane full of his friends get the hell off the island thanks to what he did. The beginning was a guy opening his eye after a plane crash of a group of strangers. I don't give a shit if they thought of the ending during season 1, after season 5, or whilst taking a dump last month. It was a cool and appropriate ending.

Yeah, I get that.  But then how come Sawyer and Kate have waystation stories?  They didn't die on the island.  Hell, neither did Locke.  Nor Hurley.  If that's the correct interpretation, then the writers were sloppy.

I liked the eye thing.  I liked several moments during the episode (mostly the comment that Jack was the "obvious" choice).  But I thought it was a huge disappointment.

Not the correct interpretation. They have waystation stories because they died. Doesn't matter if they died on or off the island. As Christian said, some of them died before Jack, some after. The common thread of everyone in the church was that their time on the island was the most significant part of their lives.

So how did you find out that the fans spoiled the writers' originally planned surprise ending?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:10:47 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:05:27 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.

Kerm, you do understand that everything they've shown in the 6 seasons actually happened, right? The sideways/waystation stories happened AFTER they were dead.

The end was a guy closing his eye after he watched a plane full of his friends get the hell off the island thanks to what he did. The beginning was a guy opening his eye after a plane crash of a group of strangers. I don't give a shit if they thought of the ending during season 1, after season 5, or whilst taking a dump last month. It was a cool and appropriate ending.

Yeah, I get that.  But then how come Sawyer and Kate have waystation stories?  They didn't die on the island.  Hell, neither did Locke.  Nor Hurley.  If that's the correct interpretation, then the writers were sloppy.

I liked the eye thing.  I liked several moments during the episode (mostly the comment that Jack was the "obvious" choice).  But I thought it was a huge disappointment.

Not the correct interpretation. They have waystation stories because they died. Doesn't matter if they died on or off the island. As Christian said, some of them died before Jack, some after. The common thread of everyone in the church was that their time on the island was the most significant part of their lives.

So how did you find out that the fans spoiled the writers' originally planned surprise ending?

Walt showed up on my doorstop soaking wet and told me.

Okay, so why does Kate's alt-story blow for her?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Tinker to Evers to Chance on May 24, 2010, 12:17:18 PM
I heard there's a deleted scene where an usher tells Ben he can't go into the church, which explains why he spent the entire episode sitting outside by the fountain.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:20:27 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:10:47 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:05:27 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.

Kerm, you do understand that everything they've shown in the 6 seasons actually happened, right? The sideways/waystation stories happened AFTER they were dead.

The end was a guy closing his eye after he watched a plane full of his friends get the hell off the island thanks to what he did. The beginning was a guy opening his eye after a plane crash of a group of strangers. I don't give a shit if they thought of the ending during season 1, after season 5, or whilst taking a dump last month. It was a cool and appropriate ending.

Yeah, I get that.  But then how come Sawyer and Kate have waystation stories?  They didn't die on the island.  Hell, neither did Locke.  Nor Hurley.  If that's the correct interpretation, then the writers were sloppy.

I liked the eye thing.  I liked several moments during the episode (mostly the comment that Jack was the "obvious" choice).  But I thought it was a huge disappointment.

Not the correct interpretation. They have waystation stories because they died. Doesn't matter if they died on or off the island. As Christian said, some of them died before Jack, some after. The common thread of everyone in the church was that their time on the island was the most significant part of their lives.

So how did you find out that the fans spoiled the writers' originally planned surprise ending?

Walt showed up on my doorstop soaking wet and told me.

Okay, so why does Kate's alt-story blow for her?

I don't think the point is that the alt-stories are supposed to be some ideal setting where everyone is happy. The idea is for everyone to see what their lives would have been like without the island or the plane crash. And to eventually accept what actually happened and deal with it.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:24:36 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:20:27 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:10:47 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:05:27 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.

Kerm, you do understand that everything they've shown in the 6 seasons actually happened, right? The sideways/waystation stories happened AFTER they were dead.

The end was a guy closing his eye after he watched a plane full of his friends get the hell off the island thanks to what he did. The beginning was a guy opening his eye after a plane crash of a group of strangers. I don't give a shit if they thought of the ending during season 1, after season 5, or whilst taking a dump last month. It was a cool and appropriate ending.

Yeah, I get that.  But then how come Sawyer and Kate have waystation stories?  They didn't die on the island.  Hell, neither did Locke.  Nor Hurley.  If that's the correct interpretation, then the writers were sloppy.

I liked the eye thing.  I liked several moments during the episode (mostly the comment that Jack was the "obvious" choice).  But I thought it was a huge disappointment.

Not the correct interpretation. They have waystation stories because they died. Doesn't matter if they died on or off the island. As Christian said, some of them died before Jack, some after. The common thread of everyone in the church was that their time on the island was the most significant part of their lives.

So how did you find out that the fans spoiled the writers' originally planned surprise ending?

Walt showed up on my doorstop soaking wet and told me.

Okay, so why does Kate's alt-story blow for her?

I don't think the point is that the alt-stories are supposed to be some ideal setting where everyone is happy. The idea is for everyone to see what their lives would have been like without the island or the plane crash. And to eventually accept what actually happened and deal with it.

Where is MY alt-timeline where I accept that Lost is over, huh?  HUH?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:26:56 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:20:27 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:10:47 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:05:27 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Waco Kid on May 24, 2010, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 11:34:53 AM
I'm going to go ahead and go the other way and say it fucking sucked.  All this time, the writers had me convinced that it WASN'T going to be a "they're just dead" finale.  And they were.  And that was a cheap and easy way to go.  And now I don't really believe that the writers had ANY clue how this show was going to end.  And I'm mad.  Boo.

They were only dead in the sideways world.

Kerm, you do understand that everything they've shown in the 6 seasons actually happened, right? The sideways/waystation stories happened AFTER they were dead.

The end was a guy closing his eye after he watched a plane full of his friends get the hell off the island thanks to what he did. The beginning was a guy opening his eye after a plane crash of a group of strangers. I don't give a shit if they thought of the ending during season 1, after season 5, or whilst taking a dump last month. It was a cool and appropriate ending.

Yeah, I get that.  But then how come Sawyer and Kate have waystation stories?  They didn't die on the island.  Hell, neither did Locke.  Nor Hurley.  If that's the correct interpretation, then the writers were sloppy.

I liked the eye thing.  I liked several moments during the episode (mostly the comment that Jack was the "obvious" choice).  But I thought it was a huge disappointment.

Not the correct interpretation. They have waystation stories because they died. Doesn't matter if they died on or off the island. As Christian said, some of them died before Jack, some after. The common thread of everyone in the church was that their time on the island was the most significant part of their lives.

So how did you find out that the fans spoiled the writers' originally planned surprise ending?

Walt showed up on my doorstop soaking wet and told me.

Okay, so why does Kate's alt-story blow for her?

I don't think the point is that the alt-stories are supposed to be some ideal setting where everyone is happy. The idea is for everyone to see what their lives would have been like without the island or the plane crash. And to eventually accept what actually happened and deal with it.

I'll accept your premise, as Sayid's alt-life also sucked.  But I still don't like the ending.  No, sir.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 12:45:05 PM
One explanation for the waystation world that I saw on the tubewebs: the Incident didn't cause it. Hurley, with his new Jacobian powers, made it hai.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 01:02:29 PM
DPD. Kerm if you didn't like the ending it's your fault (http://mobile.salon.com/ent/tv/review/2010/05/24/lost_season_finale_recap/index.html). YOU DID THIS!

QuoteThe finale's premise isn't that hard to grasp, but it confused us because it executes a switcheroo: It substitutes a "big" mystery of relatively slight interest (What is the status of the flash-sideways reality?) for all the littler enigmas that we actually do care about, such as why Aaron and Walt were so important, the reason for the fertility preoccupation in the first couple of seasons and the meaning of the numbers. You don't have to count yourself among that flock of literal-minded viewers who bleated incessantly for "answers" to everything (The glass eye! The Hurley bird! The Dharma food drops!) to find the answers we did get unsatisfying.

A series like "Lost" doesn't need to solve all of its riddles, but it does need to address the right ones. (The first season of "Twin Peaks" is a object lesson in how to provide enough resolution while preserving the delicious mysteries of a fictional universe.) From statements the producers of "Lost" have made over the past five years, they developed a dynamic with die-hard fans (and disillusioned fans and skeptical non-fans) that was infinitely more complex than any of the personal relationships among the series' characters. Could it be that in resisting the geekiest, nitpickingest, most Aspergerian demands of their audience they swung too far in the opposite direction, dismissing as trivial everything but the cosmic (the tedious and largely unnecessary Jacob-Smokey background) and the sentimental (making sure that every character receives his or her designated soul mate or therapeutic closure of the most banal Dr Phil variety)?

If so, "Lost" may be the quintessential example of a pop masterpiece ruined by its own fans.
The comic-book paraphernalia and texture of the island -- its secret bunkers with their code names, Jacob's migrating cabin with its creepy paintings, the ersatz normality of the Others' compound ringed by those sonic pylons and the fantastically mechanical grinding and dragging sounds that used to accompanied the appearance of the smoke monster -- were not peripheral to the heart of "Lost." They were the very essence of its appeal, what that show did better than any other.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
I blame myself.

I had really hoped they would do something with the fact that Jack woke up after the crash apart from everything in the cane field.  Especially when they said the cave of light was near there.  Like that Jack might have been planted there and might not have been on the plane at all.  I thought there were a lot of really interesting choices they could have made, but they made none of them.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
I blame myself.

I had really hoped they would do something with the fact that Jack woke up after the crash apart from everything in the cane field.  Especially when they said the cave of light was near there.  Like that Jack might have been planted there and might not have been on the plane at all.  I thought there were a lot of really interesting choices they could have made, but they made none of them.

Don't worry, RV is going to post 30-40 more times until you like it.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 01:26:57 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
I blame myself.

I had really hoped they would do something with the fact that Jack woke up after the crash apart from everything in the cane field.  Especially when they said the cave of light was near there.  Like that Jack might have been planted there and might not have been on the plane at all.  I thought there were a lot of really interesting choices they could have made, but they made none of them.

Don't worry, RV is going to post 30-40 more times until you like it.

My hope is that the sheer volume of my posts can generate enough energy to obliterate your internet existence.

It's totally reasonable to not like the episode. Christian's wise afterlife words to Jack were a little lame and I was disappointed that they went with a more faith-y than science-y ending. But I thought on balance there was a whole lot of awesomeness in the finale and the show in general, and endings in these types of stories aren't ever as interesting as the beginning and the middle.

So Kerm, do you already have your last HJE post planned out? If I see ANY evidence that you didn't meticulously plan it out years in advance it will diminish my enjoyment of it greatly.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 01:33:16 PM
For starters (and sort of responding to Weebs' posts earlier), I don't think the sideways world was "created" by the bomb or by anything that happened on the island.

In fact, I feel that it was almost entirely beside the point of the happenings on the island.

Christian told Jack that, in the sideways world there is no "now." It's an afterlife existence that exists outside of time, totally apart from the real world. I gather the only reason it appeared as "2004" to us was because Flight 815 was the pivotal event in these characters' real lives and thus the key for each of them to resolve whatever each of them needed to resolve before moving on. So that was the timeframe they relived. Other dead people (Alpert, for example) presumably relive other times and places.

The resolution of the sideways world as purgatory (or whatever) wasn't 'the whole point' of the past six seasons of build up. It wasn't 'what the show was all about.' Most of that was dealt with earlier in the season. The island drama came to a climax in the finale, but all of the mysteries behind the island, the mysteries driving six years' worth of story, were revealed to us before this, in various episodes earlier this season.

Yeah, the fact that there weren't really any more BIG FAT ISLAND REVEALS left me very surprised last night. I remember looking at the clock at around 10:15 or so and realizing: "This is it, isn't it? No more huge twists?" And, yeah, I felt a bit let down in the moment when I realized that the other shoe wasn't going to drop.

The more I think about it, though, (and it has provoked a lot of questions) the more satisfying I find the finale to have been. But that instinct to expect a crazy, gob-smacking twist ANY MINUTE NOW that Lost has conditioned me to have was hard to shake in the moment.

So, anyways: as it turns out, the sideways world wasn't the magic key to everything. What it was, though, was a narrative coda, a postscript to the island story.

It was a means of bringing the stories of these characters' lives to a close for us, a storytelling device akin to the flashbacks and flashforwards of past seasons, but this time with an eye towards resolution.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 01:26:57 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
I blame myself.

I had really hoped they would do something with the fact that Jack woke up after the crash apart from everything in the cane field.  Especially when they said the cave of light was near there.  Like that Jack might have been planted there and might not have been on the plane at all.  I thought there were a lot of really interesting choices they could have made, but they made none of them.

Don't worry, RV is going to post 30-40 more times until you like it.

My hope is that the sheer volume of my posts can generate enough energy to obliterate your internet existence.

It's totally reasonable to not like the episode. Christian's wise afterlife words to Jack were a little lame and I was disappointed that they went with a more faith-y than science-y ending. But I thought on balance there was a whole lot of awesomeness in the finale and the show in general, and endings in these types of stories aren't ever as interesting as the beginning and the middle.

So Kerm, do you already have your last HJE post planned out? If I see ANY evidence that you didn't meticulously plan it out years in advance it will diminish my enjoyment of it greatly.

No, but I also didn't tell anyone that I know what I'm going to post in three years, so your silly little analogy just fell apart like the ending of Lost.

Besides, that's definitely not the reason I was disappointed in the episode.  I just think it became pretty clear in the final season that they only said they had a "plan" to buy themselves a guaranteed 3 seasons, or whatever it was.  I'm sure a ton of planning went into the final episode, but if it was three years of planning, they didn't do a very good job with it.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 02:16:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 01:26:57 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
I blame myself.

I had really hoped they would do something with the fact that Jack woke up after the crash apart from everything in the cane field.  Especially when they said the cave of light was near there.  Like that Jack might have been planted there and might not have been on the plane at all.  I thought there were a lot of really interesting choices they could have made, but they made none of them.

Don't worry, RV is going to post 30-40 more times until you like it.

My hope is that the sheer volume of my posts can generate enough energy to obliterate your internet existence.

It's totally reasonable to not like the episode. Christian's wise afterlife words to Jack were a little lame and I was disappointed that they went with a more faith-y than science-y ending. But I thought on balance there was a whole lot of awesomeness in the finale and the show in general, and endings in these types of stories aren't ever as interesting as the beginning and the middle.

So Kerm, do you already have your last HJE post planned out? If I see ANY evidence that you didn't meticulously plan it out years in advance it will diminish my enjoyment of it greatly.

No, but I also didn't tell anyone that I know what I'm going to post in three years, so your silly little analogy just fell apart like the ending of Lost.

Besides, that's definitely not the reason I was disappointed in the episode.  I just think it became pretty clear in the final season that they only said they had a "plan" to buy themselves a guaranteed 3 seasons, or whatever it was.  I'm sure a ton of planning went into the final episode, but if it was three years of planning, they didn't do a very good job with it.

I was just kidding with my silly analogy, I've never actually read HJE. I think the questions of "did they plan it out ahead of time?" and "was the finale any good?" are two different things.

Maybe they did have a plan, and you just didn't like it? Maybe they didn't have a plan, and I liked it? They pretty much admitted that (http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-end,41436/) that they didn't have every last thing planned out:

QuoteDo we know the absolute end of the show? Yeah. We've had that in mind for quite some time. But can we hand you a script for the last episode of the show right now? No, because there are market fluctuations that we are unaware of at this point. Certain characters that you want to write more for sort of wear out their welcome sooner rather than later. New characters are introduced, and pop in unexpected ways. The essential nature of that last episode is more specifically about what the last three or four scenes are, and us working toward those has always remained pretty constant.

I can't even imagine how hard it is to make one entertaining hour of television, let alone six seasons. I'm sure there were a few things they planned out after they set the end date, but I'm sure there was quite a bit more they pulled out of their ass. I actually think it's more interesting if they didn't have a plan and still managed to fit 80% of the pieces in place in an entertaining way.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 01:26:57 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
I blame myself.

I had really hoped they would do something with the fact that Jack woke up after the crash apart from everything in the cane field.  Especially when they said the cave of light was near there.  Like that Jack might have been planted there and might not have been on the plane at all.  I thought there were a lot of really interesting choices they could have made, but they made none of them.

Don't worry, RV is going to post 30-40 more times until you like it.

My hope is that the sheer volume of my posts can generate enough energy to obliterate your internet existence.

It's totally reasonable to not like the episode. Christian's wise afterlife words to Jack were a little lame and I was disappointed that they went with a more faith-y than science-y ending. But I thought on balance there was a whole lot of awesomeness in the finale and the show in general, and endings in these types of stories aren't ever as interesting as the beginning and the middle.

So Kerm, do you already have your last HJE post planned out? If I see ANY evidence that you didn't meticulously plan it out years in advance it will diminish my enjoyment of it greatly.

No, but I also didn't tell anyone that I know what I'm going to post in three years, so your silly little analogy just fell apart like the ending of Lost.

Besides, that's definitely not the reason I was disappointed in the episode.  I just think it became pretty clear in the final season that they only said they had a "plan" to buy themselves a guaranteed 3 seasons, or whatever it was.  I'm sure a ton of planning went into the final episode, but if it was three years of planning, they didn't do a very good job with it.

I think you're confusing 'the end of the show' with 'the final episode.'

In a lot of ways, this entire season was the ending to the show.

And I don't think it would be totally outlandish for them to claim that they started this show 6 years ago with at least a road map that included all the Smokey-vs-Jacob stuff, the vague magical "light" at the heart of the island and Jack's six-season character arc.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 02:16:03 PM
I actually think it's more interesting if they didn't have a plan and still managed to fit 80% of the pieces in place in an entertaining way.

Do you find sausages taste different if you know how they are made?

A very meh ending.  If it's all about the character, I'd hate to see these guys do a remake of "The Fugitive."

Dr. Kimble doesn't catch the One Armed Man, but the Doc and Dept. Gerard have a nice hug and shed a tear.

Jimmy Kimmel had the best answer: It was all in Jack's mind and he died in the plane crash.  It was all Purgatory.  Makes all the incontinuities explainable by "They were all already dead."
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 02:23:21 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
A very meh ending.  If it's all about the character, I'd hate to see these guys do a remake of "The Fugitive."

Dr. Kimble doesn't catch the One Armed Man, but the Doc and Dept. Gerard have a nice hug and shed a tear.

Great... Now Chuck's bitching about a show that doesn't even exist.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 24, 2010, 02:25:25 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 02:16:03 PM
I actually think it's more interesting if they didn't have a plan and still managed to fit 80% of the pieces in place in an entertaining way.

Do you find sausages taste different if you know how they are made?

A very meh ending.  If it's all about the character, I'd hate to see these guys do a remake of "The Fugitive."

Dr. Kimble doesn't catch the One Armed Man, but the Doc and Dept. Gerard have a nice hug and shed a tear.

Jimmy Kimmel had the best answer: It was all in Jack's mind and he died in the plane crash.  It was all Purgatory.  Makes all the incontinuities explainable by "They were all already dead."

And Kerm thought MY analogy was bad.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 02:25:25 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2010, 02:16:03 PM
I actually think it's more interesting if they didn't have a plan and still managed to fit 80% of the pieces in place in an entertaining way.

Do you find sausages taste different if you know how they are made?

A very meh ending.  If it's all about the character, I'd hate to see these guys do a remake of "The Fugitive."

Dr. Kimble doesn't catch the One Armed Man, but the Doc and Dept. Gerard have a nice hug and shed a tear.

Jimmy Kimmel had the best answer: It was all in Jack's mind and he died in the plane crash.  It was all Purgatory.  Makes all the incontinuities explainable by "They were all already dead."

And Kerm thought MY analogy was bad.

This analogy is so bad Chuck had to try it out in the shoutbox first.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 02:41:09 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 01:33:16 PMThe more I think about it, though, (and it has provoked a lot of questions) the more satisfying I find the finale to have been. But that instinct to expect a crazy, gob-smacking twist ANY MINUTE NOW that Lost has conditioned me to have was hard to shake in the moment.

So, anyways: as it turns out, the sideways world wasn't the magic key to everything. What it was, though, was a narrative coda, a postscript to the island story.

It was a means of bringing the stories of these characters' lives to a close for us, a storytelling device akin to the flashbacks and flashforwards of past seasons, but this time with an eye towards resolution.

So very much of THIS.  I think they definitely did lead us along a bit too much into believing the events in this alternate world did actually have some consequence, and it's a little confusing that while, as Christian said, "There is no 'now' in this place," they all were experiencing this existence simultaneously, despite dying at different times.  But I think it was an unbelievable sendoff for all of these characters, and it didn't end on the unbelievably miserable tone that it could have if we only saw the events on the island, where nearly everybody was dead.

It seems that the main theories for the alt-world all revolved around it being another timeline for the same characters, and they were either going to do something in that world to help their other halves in the real world, or that whatever they did in the real world was going to lead to them leading their alternate lives.  I think both of those would have been a huge letdown for the show, because then we would either realize that they're all completely different people than we've known over the years, or their very existence would have been nothing more than a plot device to "fix" something on the island.  What we got was another world that further developed the same group of characters we've been following all this time, and let them finally get a peaceful end after suffering through so much on the island and in their lives before it.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 03:03:21 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 02:23:21 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
A very meh ending.  If it's all about the character, I'd hate to see these guys do a remake of "The Fugitive."

Dr. Kimble doesn't catch the One Armed Man, but the Doc and Dept. Gerard have a nice hug and shed a tear.

Great... Now Chuck's bitching about a show that doesn't even exist any longer. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247097/)

Mykelti Williamson'd
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 03:03:21 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 02:23:21 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
A very meh ending.  If it's all about the character, I'd hate to see these guys do a remake of "The Fugitive."

Dr. Kimble doesn't catch the One Armed Man, but the Doc and Dept. Gerard have a nice hug and shed a tear.

Great... Now Chuck's bitching about a show that doesn't even exist any longer. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247097/)

Mykelti Williamson'd

Oh, I see. You're bitching about an actual short-lived show that has no relation whatsoever to the target of your complaints. Forget I said anything.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Wheezer on May 24, 2010, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: Kermit IV on May 24, 2010, 12:24:36 PM
Where is MY alt-timeline where I accept that Lost is over, huh?  HUH?

(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z43/sevenarts/cinema/alexanderplatz-epilogue.jpg)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 04:00:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 03:03:21 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 24, 2010, 02:23:21 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 24, 2010, 02:18:42 PM
A very meh ending.  If it's all about the character, I'd hate to see these guys do a remake of "The Fugitive."

Dr. Kimble doesn't catch the One Armed Man, but the Doc and Dept. Gerard have a nice hug and shed a tear.

Great... Now Chuck's bitching about a show that doesn't even exist any longer. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247097/)

Mykelti Williamson'd

Oh, I see. You're bitching about an actual short-lived show that has no relation whatsoever to the target of your complaints. Forget I said anything.

Already done.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Weebs on May 24, 2010, 04:06:42 PM
I just realized the church in the finale is the same one where Jack, Ben, Sun and Desmond went to see Eloise to find out how to get back to the island.  I wonder if they'll explain the connection in season 7!
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on May 25, 2010, 12:27:22 AM
Finally watched it - thought it was great. I got a Vanilla Sky vibe from it. It's by no means the same but the flash-sideways just reminded me of Life Extension.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: MikeC on May 25, 2010, 07:59:04 AM
I thought when Jack reappeared at the end by the stream like how evil Locke was created, that it was gonna be the start of a new cycle. Evil Jack Vs. Good Hurley. But Jack wasn't evil.....so yeah that theory didn't last long.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 25, 2010, 08:42:00 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 25, 2010, 12:27:22 AM
Finally watched it - thought it was great. I got a Vanilla Sky vibe from it. It's by no means the same but the flash-sideways just reminded me of Life Extension.

Uh... it's like... did anyone see the movie "Vanilla Sky"?

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Yes. I mean—um, I mean, no.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 25, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 25, 2010, 08:42:00 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 25, 2010, 12:27:22 AM
Finally watched it - thought it was great. I got a Vanilla Sky vibe from it. It's by no means the same but the flash-sideways just reminded me of Life Extension.

Uh... it's like... did anyone see the movie "Vanilla Sky"?

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Yes. I mean—um, I mean, no.

Saw it.

It sucked.
Hard.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 25, 2010, 11:19:40 AM
Quote from: PenPho on May 25, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 25, 2010, 08:42:00 AM
Quote from: Slaky on May 25, 2010, 12:27:22 AM
Finally watched it - thought it was great. I got a Vanilla Sky vibe from it. It's by no means the same but the flash-sideways just reminded me of Life Extension.

Uh... it's like... did anyone see the movie "Vanilla Sky"?

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Yes. I mean—um, I mean, no.

Saw it.

It sucked.
Hard.

Even    Penélope Cruz's hogans didn't help.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Andy on May 25, 2010, 04:49:55 PM
I thought 2:25 of the finale were pretty awesome, and I was totally underwhelmed by the last five minutes, but I think all in all, this show had a pretty fucking amazing six season run.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 25, 2010, 08:56:44 PM
I really liked it a lot.  I got genuinely choked up at like 4 different parts.  Best network show ever.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.

I like RV's link better because it focuses on stuff that's actually consequential.

As opposed to "What happened during The Tampa Job?" or "What happened to Mikhail's eye?"

(Which, of course, are the very questions keeping Chuck up at night.)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.

I like RV's link better because it focuses on stuff that's actually consequential.

As opposed to "What happened during The Tampa Job?" or "What happened to Mikhail's eye?"

(Which, of course, are the very questions keeping Chuck up at night.)

The pregnancy one is pretty big.  Was kinda a big deal because if Sun got prego on the Island, she was dead.

Heh.  Turned out she was.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: JD on May 26, 2010, 06:18:35 PM
I finally got around to watching.  I dug it.  A lot.  I don't know what you guys have been saying---that'd be a lot of reading---but I'm guessing some people liked it, some people didn't, and some people kinda did but kinda didn't. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.

I like RV's link better because it focuses on stuff that's actually consequential.

As opposed to "What happened during The Tampa Job?" or "What happened to Mikhail's eye?"

(Which, of course, are the very questions keeping Chuck up at night.)

The pregnancy one is pretty big.

Who said it wasn't?

(And why am I even bothering?)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on May 26, 2010, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.

I like RV's link better because it focuses on stuff that's actually consequential.

As opposed to "What happened during The Tampa Job?" or "What happened to Mikhail's eye?"

(Which, of course, are the very questions keeping Chuck up at night.)

The pregnancy one is pretty big.

Who said it wasn't?

(And why am I even bothering?)

OK, I'll take the bait and piss off Pen by posting yet another message on the internet.

Before the Incident, everything was fine. As evidenced by the birth of Ethan.

The Incident caused some crazy electromagnetic/radiation stuff that messed with fetuses. So no babies. Ben brought Juliet to try to solve it, but she couldn't. So the Others stole some kids from the tail section to try to repopulate.

Claire didn't get pregnant on the Island, so she was fine. Sun got pregnant on the Island, but gave birth off it, so she was fine. I think that about covers it.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on May 26, 2010, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.

I like RV's link better because it focuses on stuff that's actually consequential.

As opposed to "What happened during The Tampa Job?" or "What happened to Mikhail's eye?"

(Which, of course, are the very questions keeping Chuck up at night.)

The pregnancy one is pretty big.

Who said it wasn't?

(And why am I even bothering?)

OK, I'll take the bait and piss off Pen by posting yet another message on the internet.

Before the Incident, everything was fine. As evidenced by the birth of Ethan.

The Incident caused some crazy electromagnetic/radiation stuff that messed with fetuses. So no babies. Ben brought Juliet to try to solve it, but she couldn't. So the Others stole some kids from the tail section to try to repopulate.

Claire didn't get pregnant on the Island, so she was fine. Sun got pregnant on the Island, but gave birth off it, so she was fine. I think that about covers it.

Turn off the lights and shut her down.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: Slaky on May 26, 2010, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.

I like RV's link better because it focuses on stuff that's actually consequential.

As opposed to "What happened during The Tampa Job?" or "What happened to Mikhail's eye?"

(Which, of course, are the very questions keeping Chuck up at night.)

The pregnancy one is pretty big.

Who said it wasn't?

(And why am I even bothering?)

OK, I'll take the bait and piss off Pen by posting yet another message on the internet.

Before the Incident, everything was fine. As evidenced by the birth of Ethan.

The Incident caused some crazy electromagnetic/radiation stuff that messed with fetuses. So no babies. Ben brought Juliet to try to solve it, but she couldn't. So the Others stole some kids from the tail section to try to repopulate.

Claire didn't get pregnant on the Island, so she was fine. Sun got pregnant on the Island, but gave birth off it, so she was fine. I think that about covers it.

Turn off the lights and shut her down.

But wait!

How did the real Henry Gale die?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:23:24 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: Slaky on May 26, 2010, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.

I like RV's link better because it focuses on stuff that's actually consequential.

As opposed to "What happened during The Tampa Job?" or "What happened to Mikhail's eye?"

(Which, of course, are the very questions keeping Chuck up at night.)

The pregnancy one is pretty big.

Who said it wasn't?

(And why am I even bothering?)

OK, I'll take the bait and piss off Pen by posting yet another message on the internet.

Before the Incident, everything was fine. As evidenced by the birth of Ethan.

The Incident caused some crazy electromagnetic/radiation stuff that messed with fetuses. So no babies. Ben brought Juliet to try to solve it, but she couldn't. So the Others stole some kids from the tail section to try to repopulate.

Claire didn't get pregnant on the Island, so she was fine. Sun got pregnant on the Island, but gave birth off it, so she was fine. I think that about covers it.

Turn off the lights and shut her down.

But wait!

How did the real Henry Gale die?

Hot air balloon crash.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 27, 2010, 05:28:42 AM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:23:24 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: Slaky on May 26, 2010, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on May 26, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 26, 2010, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: R-V on May 26, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 26, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
This has been making the circuit, so figure some have already seen it.

100 Unanswered questions from Lost. (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/one_hundred_unanswered_lost_qu.html)

Fairly amusing.

Good stuff. If that guy would just spend 10 or 12 hours visiting these links almost all of his questions would be answered.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

Or he could just go here (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions) and see if the answers wanted were ever answered.  Most likely not.

I like RV's link better because it focuses on stuff that's actually consequential.

As opposed to "What happened during The Tampa Job?" or "What happened to Mikhail's eye?"

(Which, of course, are the very questions keeping Chuck up at night.)

The pregnancy one is pretty big.

Who said it wasn't?

(And why am I even bothering?)

OK, I'll take the bait and piss off Pen by posting yet another message on the internet.

Before the Incident, everything was fine. As evidenced by the birth of Ethan.

The Incident caused some crazy electromagnetic/radiation stuff that messed with fetuses. So no babies. Ben brought Juliet to try to solve it, but she couldn't. So the Others stole some kids from the tail section to try to repopulate.

Claire didn't get pregnant on the Island, so she was fine. Sun got pregnant on the Island, but gave birth off it, so she was fine. I think that about covers it.

Turn off the lights and shut her down.

But wait!

How did the real Henry Gale die?

Hot air balloon crash.

More likely a gang shooting or something like that.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Richard Chuggar on May 27, 2010, 11:13:24 AM
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2010/05/lost-michael-emerson-promises-an-epilogue-on-the-dvd.html

Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on June 01, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 11:50:46 AM
Despite everything else...I'm just kind of glad this is over now and I can have my life back.

It was an entertaining 6 years, some of the best television I've ever seen at certain peaks, along with definitely the most confusing TV as well.

But now, after all this time, I'm just glad to move on.

Not THIS.

It's Tuesday, Lost isn't on, and I'm sad.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Slaky on June 01, 2010, 01:51:18 PM
Quote from: PenPho on June 01, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: PenPho on May 24, 2010, 11:50:46 AM
Despite everything else...I'm just kind of glad this is over now and I can have my life back.

It was an entertaining 6 years, some of the best television I've ever seen at certain peaks, along with definitely the most confusing TV as well.

But now, after all this time, I'm just glad to move on.

Not THIS.

It's Tuesday, Lost isn't on, and I'm sad.

Justified is on.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: powen01 on June 01, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Thought some of you soccer-hating poofs would like this:

http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Dr. Nguyen Van Falk on June 01, 2010, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: powen01 on June 01, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Thought some of you soccer-hating poofs would like this:

http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html

I wasn't really impressed until I clicked season 6.

Pretty comprehensive.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Kermit IV on June 02, 2010, 02:16:59 PM
Oh, NOW I get it.

(http://i.imgur.com/2OXLq.gif)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: ChuckD on June 02, 2010, 06:39:12 PM
Quote from: powen01 on June 01, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Thought some of you soccer-hating poofs would like this:

http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html

404 Error?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: powen01 on June 02, 2010, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on June 02, 2010, 06:39:12 PM
Quote from: powen01 on June 01, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Thought some of you soccer-hating poofs would like this:

http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html

404 Error?

It was working before.  Tdubbs probably banged it to death.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: ChuckD on June 02, 2010, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: powen01 on June 02, 2010, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on June 02, 2010, 06:39:12 PM
Quote from: powen01 on June 01, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Thought some of you soccer-hating poofs would like this:

http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html

404 Error?

It was working before.  Tdubbs probably banged it to death.

Ok, so it wasn't some meta LOST joke thing?
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: powen01 on June 02, 2010, 09:57:47 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on June 02, 2010, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: powen01 on June 02, 2010, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on June 02, 2010, 06:39:12 PM
Quote from: powen01 on June 01, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Thought some of you soccer-hating poofs would like this:

http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html

404 Error?

It was working before.  Tdubbs probably banged it to death.

Ok, so it wasn't some meta LOST joke thing?

No, it was actually a web page with cartoon representations of all the Lost characters for each season... synopsis on each one.  Kindof neat. 
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: J. Walter Weatherman on June 21, 2010, 06:37:16 PM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/dharma-alarm-clock.shtml
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Chuck to Chuck on June 21, 2010, 09:50:32 PM
It only works if you are dead to the world.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on July 25, 2011, 11:50:56 AM
MIB: "Like say...more trouble than getting turned into black smoke that takes the form of dead people?"

Jacob: "Okay, you really need to get over that."

"Deleted" scene.  (http://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/deleted-lost-scene-reveals-name-of-man-in-black)
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: J. Walter Weatherman on March 19, 2012, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I disagree with Chuck thinking that Alpert isn't an important character, though.  Mainly b/c Chuck is a fucking idiot.  And I didn't cry.

Is that what I think?

QuoteIt was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

Yes.

So, minor = unimportant?  Wow.  The shit you learn...

Bumped for some regular fucking mindreading.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on March 19, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on March 19, 2012, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on March 24, 2010, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on March 24, 2010, 10:34:01 AM
I disagree with Chuck thinking that Alpert isn't an important character, though.  Mainly b/c Chuck is a fucking idiot.  And I didn't cry.

Is that what I think?

QuoteIt was OK.  A whole emotional backstory for Alpert that seemed very close to Desmond/Penny and it seemed unnecessary for what is effectively a minor character.

Yes.

So, minor = unimportant?  Wow.  The shit you learn...

Bumped for some regular fucking mindreading.

Best contentiousness.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: PenPho on November 28, 2012, 10:24:27 AM
Bump for this excerpt from Alan Sepinwall's new book (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8670609/alan-sepinwall-origins-lost) that appeared on Grantland the other day.

Some interesting back story on the creation of the show and further confirming that "making it up as they went along" stuff.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on March 18, 2014, 04:49:24 PM
http://jezebel.com/every-single-person-on-lost-ranked-from-most-to-least-1546174780/@tcraggs22
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: J. Walter Weatherman on May 07, 2014, 10:54:32 PM
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/lost-creators-interview

QuoteESQ: Did you ever get trapped in any corners while writing the show?

CC: I think a lot of times we intentionally painted ourselves into corners. As Damon used to say, "Well, then we'll just walk up the wall." That was a fun part of the storytelling — to create challenges for ourselves. The only place we ever got stuck was when we did things we regretted doing, not that they were narrative cul-de-sacs but like Nikki and Paulo. That was an example of a story idea where once we'd initiated it we regretted having done it. Or, on a smaller scale, when we told the story of Jack flashing back to Thailand and how he got his tattoos, we really regretted that we had decided that was a worthy flashback story. That story became really instrumental in convincing ABC that we needed to end the show. We were like, "Okay, this is what flashbacks look like now so it's probably a good idea if we figure out how much longer this show is actually going to go."

DL: We did 121 hours of Lost. Arguably only 15 to 20 of them were subpar, bordering on turds. It would be great to pretend those episodes never happened, but I love the fact that we're still talking about Nikki and Paulo. Sometimes the mistake, the thing that wasn't good, is the thing that's really part of the legacy of a show like ours.

ESQ: What was the worst episode of Lost?

CC: I mean, I think the episode where Jack gets his tattoos in Thailand. I think it's cringe-worthy, where he's flying the kite on the beach. It was not our finest hour. We used Matthew Fox's real tattoos. That's how desperate we were for flashback stories.
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: Yeti on September 18, 2014, 10:34:46 AM
Yup: http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/lost-was-the-best-before-it-was-the-worst-1635804502/+robharvilla
Title: Re: Lost: The Final Boner
Post by: R-V on March 27, 2015, 03:41:23 PM
This is long but great.

http://okbjgm.weebly.com/lost/the-lost-will-and-testament-of-javier-grillo-marxuach