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Wheezer
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« on: February 21, 2012, 02:26:02 AM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 03:22:28 AM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 08:40:33 AM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.
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Chuck to Chuck
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 10:24:59 AM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.

Yeah. There are no idiots with advanced degrees.
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PenPho
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 12:08:15 PM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.

Yeah. There are no idiots with advanced degrees.

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Wheezer
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 12:22:31 PM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.

Yeah. There are no idiots with advanced degrees.

She's also a cosleeper, a decidedly risky activity, refused her kids speech therapy (apparently, the two-year-old hasn't spoken yet), suggests that homebirthing is "nothing to fear," and plays the holier-than-thou card for "unnatural" mommies who choose pain relief during childbirth rather than self-hypnosis, baths, and homeopathy.
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"The brain growth deficit controls reality hence [G-d] rules the world.... These mathematical results by the way, are all experimentally confirmed to 2-decimal point accuracy by modern Psychometry data."--George Hammond, Gμν!!
morpheus
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 01:16:18 PM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.

Yeah. There are no idiots with advanced degrees.



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Tonker
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 01:22:36 PM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.

Yeah. There are no idiots with advanced degrees.

She's also a cosleeper, a decidedly risky activity, refused her kids speech therapy (apparently, the two-year-old hasn't spoken yet), suggests that homebirthing is "nothing to fear," and plays the holier-than-thou card for "unnatural" mommies who choose pain relief during childbirth rather than self-hypnosis, baths, and homeopathy.

What's the problem with homebirthing, exactly?  As long as there's medical help on hand or within easy reach, there's a lot to be said for it.  We had both our kids in hospital because we didn't have the choice, as it turned out, but it's extremely common here in the Netherlands, and the infant mortality rates are well in line with the rest of Western Europe.

Also, what are the risks of cosleeping?  Unless you're stoned out of your fucking mind, there are none.  STonk and I never did it with the Tonklets but I don't give a flying fuck if it suits somebody else.  I'm surprised at you, Wheez.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 01:40:37 PM by Tonker » Logged

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morpheus
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 01:29:58 PM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.

Yeah. There are no idiots with advanced degrees.

She's also a cosleeper, a decidedly risky activity, refused her kids speech therapy (apparently, the two-year-old hasn't spoken yet), suggests that homebirthing is "nothing to fear," and plays the holier-than-thou card for "unnatural" mommies who choose pain relief during childbirth rather than self-hypnosis, baths, and homeopathy.

What's the problem with homebirthing, exactly?  As long as there's medical help on hand or within easy reach, there's a lot to be said for it.  We had both our kids in hospital because we didn't have the choice, as it turned out, but it's extremely common here in the Netherlands, and the infant mortality rates are well in line with the rest of Western Europe.

Also, what are the risks of cosleeping?  Unless you're stoned out of your fucking mind, there are none.  STonk and I never did it with the Tonklets but I don't give a flying fuck if it suits somebody else.  I'm surprised at you, Wheez.

Well, the US Consumer Product Safety Commission and American Academy of Pediatrics think there are risks... Or so Google tells me.
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PenPho
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 01:31:48 PM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.

Yeah. There are no idiots with advanced degrees.

She's also a cosleeper, a decidedly risky activity, refused her kids speech therapy (apparently, the two-year-old hasn't spoken yet), suggests that homebirthing is "nothing to fear," and plays the holier-than-thou card for "unnatural" mommies who choose pain relief during childbirth rather than self-hypnosis, baths, and homeopathy.

She's also a cosleeper, a decidedly risky activity, refused her kids speech therapy (apparently, the two-year-old hasn't spoken yet), suggests that homebirthing is "nothing to fear," and plays the holier-than-thou card for "unnatural" mommies who choose pain relief during childbirth rather than self-hypnosis, baths, and homeopathy.
Quote
What's the problem with homebirthing, exactly?  As long as there's medical help on hand or within easy reach, there's a lot to be said for it.  We had both our kids in hospital because we didn't have the choice, as it turned out, but it's extremely common here in the Netherlands, and the infant mortality rates are well in line with the rest of Western Europe.

Also, what are the risks of cosleeping?  Unless you're stoned out of your fucking mind, there are none.  STonk and I never did it with the Tonklets but I don't give a flying fuck if it suits somebody else.  I'm surprised at you, Wheez.

We have spent far more nights with infants in our bed than without over the course of the past 3 years.

It's a fucking wonder we managed to get pregnant again.

I would never consider homebirthing for us, but to Tonk's point, if you have legitimate medical personnel on hand and it's a low-risk pregnancy, well...I still think you're fucking crazy, but that's your right.

That said, not vaccinating your children should be met with capital punishment.  
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 01:32:46 PM »


Morph is on the side of BIG GUBMENT.
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Wheezer
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 02:23:37 PM »

Oh, look, Dr. Blossom is a Mommy Menace. Maybe TBBT can do a vaccine episode. "The Secret Hepatitis B of the American Teenager" is a thought.

Quote
JustMommies: Do you do no vaccinations, or do you select specific ones with your doctor?

Mayim Bialik: We have not vaccinated, but some people do selective vaccination. There is a recommended modified schedule that Dr. Sears has been recommending.

Okay, the non-vaccination thing is just nuts, but you know what?  I read that whole thing and it's clear that she adores her kids and is only trying to do what she thinks is best for them.  There's a limit to how far wrong you can go with that.  There are probably a billion children in this World who would love to have her kids' problems.

She's got a PhD in Neuroscience. I'm pretty sure she made a reasonably informed decision.

Yeah. There are no idiots with advanced degrees.

She's also a cosleeper, a decidedly risky activity, refused her kids speech therapy (apparently, the two-year-old hasn't spoken yet), suggests that homebirthing is "nothing to fear," and plays the holier-than-thou card for "unnatural" mommies who choose pain relief during childbirth rather than self-hypnosis, baths, and homeopathy.

What's the problem with homebirthing, exactly?  As long as there's medical help on hand or within easy reach, there's a lot to be said for it.  We had both our kids in hospital because we didn't have the choice, as it turned out, but it's extremely common here in the Netherlands, and the infant mortality rates are well in line with the rest of Western Europe.

As long as there's medical help within easy reach, the main thing to be said is that, in a best-case scenario (which does not generally exist in the U.S.), two out of three homebirthing deaths could have been prevented in a hospital, and no deaths in a hospital could have been prevented with homebirthing. (If one looks at the early history of Mothering, they simply took a blasι attitude toward the whole thing, since they were just going to be breeding away anyhow and were pretending to be frontierswomen.) If you really want me to start pulling the literature, well, I started it, so let me know.

Also, what are the risks of cosleeping?  Unless you're stoned out of your fucking mind, there are none.  STonk and I never did it with the Tonklets but I don't give a flying fuck if it suits somebody else.  I'm surprised at you, Wheez.

Remember that Bialik is now acting as a celebrity spokesperson. Nonetheless, you're asserting the tautology that there is no risk unless there is some risk factor. Even this is not true, as the risk of simply overlaying the child is inherent; what is true is that the numbers suggest that the safest arrangement for infants is sleeping in a crib in the parents' bedroom.
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"The brain growth deficit controls reality hence [G-d] rules the world.... These mathematical results by the way, are all experimentally confirmed to 2-decimal point accuracy by modern Psychometry data."--George Hammond, Gμν!!
Wheezer
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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 02:14:57 PM »

DPD, in two parts.

What's the problem with homebirthing, exactly?  As long as there's medical help on hand or within easy reach, there's a lot to be said for it.  We had both our kids in hospital because we didn't have the choice, as it turned out, but it's extremely common here in the Netherlands, and the infant mortality rates are well in line with the rest of Western Europe.

Infant mortality rates can be difficult to compare depending on definitions. Let's take a look around anyway.

Regional Perinatal Mortality Differences in the Netherlands; Care is the Question

Quote
Perinatal mortality is an important indicator of health and the quality of health care [1]. Countries or regions are often compared using perinatal mortality rate. The position of the Netherlands in international comparative research is unfavourable. In 2003 the results of the PERISTAT study showed that Dutch perinatal mortality for the year 1999 was substantially higher compared to other European countries (stillbirth rate of 7.4 per 1,000 total births and early neonatal mortality of 3.5 per 1,000 live births) [1,2].

[1] Buitendijk S, Zeitlin J, Cuttini M, Langhoff-Roos J, Bottu J. Indicators of fetal and infant health outcomes. Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol. 2003;111:S66–S77. doi: 10.1016/j.ejogrb.2003.09.007

[2] Zeitlin J, Wildman K, Breart G, Alexander S, Barros H, Blondel B, et al. PERISTAT: indicators for monitoring and evaluating perinatal health in Europe. Eur J Public Health. 2003;13:29–37. doi: 10.1093/eurpub/13.suppl_1.29

Over time: Decreasing Perinatal Mortality in The Netherlands, 2000–2006: A Record Linkage Study

Quote
Results: Perinatal mortality among singletons declined from 10.5 to 9.1 per 1000 total births in the period 2000–2006. This trend remained significant after full adjustment (odds ratio 0.97; 95% CI 0.96 to 0.98) and was present in both fetal and neonatal mortality. The decline was most prominent among births complicated by congenital anomalies, among premature births (32.0–36.6 weeks) and among term births. Home births showed the lowest mortality risk.

Conclusions: Dutch perinatal mortality declined steadily over this period, which could not be explained by changes in known risk factors including high maternal age and non-western ethnicity. The decline was present in all risk groups except in very premature births. The mortality level is still high compared with European standards.

Aha! Hospital births kill babies! Let's go a little further into the Dutch numbers.

Perinatal Mortality and Morbidity in a Nationwide Cohort of 529,688 Low-Risk Planned Home and Hospital Births

Quote
RESULTS: No significant differences were found between planned home and planned hospital birth (adjusted relative risks and 95% confidence intervals: intrapartum death 0.97 (0.69 to 1.37), intrapartum death and neonatal death during the first 24 hours 1.02 (0.77 to 1.36), intrapartum death and neonatal death up to 7 days 1.00 (0.78 to 1.27), admission to neonatal intensive care unit 1.00 (0.86 to 1.16).

CONCLUSIONS: This study shows that planning a home birth does not increase the risks of perinatal mortality and severe perinatal morbidity among low-risk women, provided the maternity care system facilitates this choice through the availability of well-trained midwives and through a good transportation and referral system.

Well, I guess that takes care of that. Unless we had a few methodological issues that needed sorting out.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 02:17:06 PM by Wheezer » Logged

"The brain growth deficit controls reality hence [G-d] rules the world.... These mathematical results by the way, are all experimentally confirmed to 2-decimal point accuracy by modern Psychometry data."--George Hammond, Gμν!!
Wheezer
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 02:15:43 PM »

Planned Home Compared With Planned Hospital Births in The Netherlands: Intrapartum and Early Neonatal Death in Low-Risk Pregnancies

Quote
RESULTS: Intrapartum and neonatal death at 0–7 days was observed in 0.15% of planned home compared with 0.18% in planned hospital births (crude relative risk 0.80, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.71–0.91). After case mix adjustment, the relation is reversed, showing nonsignificant increased mortality risk of home birth (OR 1.05, 95% CI 0.91–1.21). In certain subgroups, additional mortality may arise at home if risk conditions emerge at birth (up to 20% increase).

CONCLUSION: Home birth, under routine conditions, is generally not associated with increased intrapartum and early neonatal death, yet in subgroups, additional risk cannot be excluded.

I don't have full-text access, so I'll have to depend on the quoting accuracy of others.

Quote
The data from an otherwise very similar country such as Flanders suggest that more favorable results may be expected in low-risk women in general from a hospital-based system. In Flanders, perinatal mortality is approximately 33% less than in The Netherlands, whereas the cesarean delivery rates show little difference.

Further,

Quote
Our conclusions apparently contradict those of De Jonge et al [Perinatal Mortality and Morbidity, above] who concluded equal intrapartum and early neonatal outcome of planned home birth compared with hospital birth in apparently the same population.... Our principal [sic?] approach (natural prospective approach) compares neonatal mortality in the actual populations delivering at home compared with the hospital, whereas the approach of De Jonge et al compares neonatal mortality in a hypothetical group resembling our perfect guideline approach population.

So, (1) homebirth in the Netherlands is just as safe as hospital birth in ideal cases and (2) it appears that these cases are not being selected ideally enough. Now imagine mapping this to the U.S., where something like this makes crunchy happy time:

Quote
Lay midwives can legally deliver babies at home in Wisconsin beginning on Tuesday.

Lay midwives have been working for 25 years to have their profession and home births recognized by the state, as they are in 24 other states. Lay midwives are different from certified nurse midwives who hold master's degrees and are affiliated with a hospital or doctor.

The new law also frees the certified midwives from being tied to a health care provider.

Well, we can guess.

Neonatal Mortality in Missouri Home Births, 1978-84

Quote
A study was conducted of 4,054 Missouri home births occurring from 1978 through 1984. Of the 3,645 births whose planning status was identified, 3,067 (84 per cent) were planned to be at home. Neonatal mortality was elevated for both planned (17 observed deaths vs 8.59 expected deaths) and unplanned home births (45 observed vs 33.19 expected) compared with physician-attended hospital births. Nearly all of the mortality excess for planned home births occurred in association with lesser trained attendants (12 observed vs 4.42 expected)....

Dr. Blossom's advocacy lies somewhere between somewhat increased risk and grossly increased risk, all for the sake of what really appears to be making sure those little snowflakes are strictly maintained as pure extensions of her ego.
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"The brain growth deficit controls reality hence [G-d] rules the world.... These mathematical results by the way, are all experimentally confirmed to 2-decimal point accuracy by modern Psychometry data."--George Hammond, Gμν!!
PenPho
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« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 03:33:07 PM »

Thanks a lot, Tonk.
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