Poll
Question:
The latest Hall of Fame ballot is out. You can vote for up to 10. Who do you vote for?
Option 1: Harold Baines
votes: 8
Option 2: Jay Bell
votes: 0
Option 3: Bert Blyleven
votes: 42
Option 4: David Cone
votes: 1
Option 5: Andre Dawson
votes: 38
Option 6: Ron Gant
votes: 0
Option 7: Mark Grace
votes: 4
Option 8: Rickey Henderson
votes: 46
Option 9: Tommy John
votes: 10
Option 10: Don Mattingly
votes: 7
Option 11: Mark McGwire
votes: 9
Option 12: Jack Morris
votes: 14
Option 13: Dale Murphy
votes: 11
Option 14: Jesse Orosco
votes: 1
Option 15: Dave Parker
votes: 2
Option 16: Dan Plesac
votes: 6
Option 17: Tim Raines
votes: 12
Option 18: Jim Rice
votes: 21
Option 19: Lee Smith
votes: 26
Option 20: Alan Trammell
votes: 12
Option 21: Greg Vaughn
votes: 0
Option 22: Mo Vaughn
votes: 2
Option 23: Matt Williams
votes: 0
The above is the current HOF ballot. While I'm sure Plesac will get in on the first ballot, I'm really hoping that he's joined by Sox bench coach Harold Baines and Cubs bench coach Alan Trammell. I'm sure Greg Vaughn and Jay Bell will also make it. Anyway, vote for up to 10.
Henderson, Raines, Blyleven.
What Eli said.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I voted for all 10 of 'em.
Blyleven, Dawson, Rickey, Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Lee Smiff
And yes, I only voted for Rice because I voted for Dawson, but putting Jim Rice in the HOF is a small price to pay for having Andre in.
Bert Blyleven, Jim Rice and Tommy John are the 3 biggest head-scratchers. Why are none of them in the Hall? Blyleven has the numbers as does Jim Rice. Tommy John won 288 games, but he also won more than half of them after suffering Tommy John disease. Frank Jobe performed the surgery, but Tommy John did the rehab, and he also made it possible for other surgeries to happen.
Along with Blyleven, Rice and John, I think Dawson is Hall-worthy, and I know his OBA isn't great, but let's put it this way: Sandberg is a Hall of Famer. When Sandberg was in his prime and Dawson was past his, pitchers would rather pitch to Sandberg than Dawson.
Henderson is the shoo-in.
After that, you have three others: Dale Murphy, Jack Morris and Don Mattingly. They all deserve serious consideration. Murphy was THE PREMIER outfielder in the NL from 1982-1987. He dropped off dramatically after that, but he has 398 HR and a career .815 OPS, which would have been dramatically higher if not for his last three years of his career.
Morris was the best starting pitcher of the 1980s, and the ace for the best team of the 1980s. His World Series performance in 1991 was legendary. And he greeted the 1984 White Sox post-division title glow with a no-hitter. He'd have my vote.
Mattingly wouldn't need my vote, because eventually he'll get in. Believe it or not, he deserves it. From 1984-1988, he had seasons that rank among the best in baseball history.
If I had an actual vote, I'd cast them for Rice, John, Blyleven, Dawson and Henderson. I'd also cast a sixth vote for one of the Murphy-Mattingly-Morris group.
Jesse Orosco and Dan Plesac. I know, I know. Plesac's not Latin, but he told me he learned some tricks from Teddy Higuera and Juan Nieves.
Blyleven, Dawson, Rickey, Jack Morris, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Lee Smith.
Parker gets my vote over Raines because Parkerwore a football helmet while playing baseball, made the most awesomeist throw ever in an All Star Game, and Raines slid on his stomach so as not to break the cocaine vials in his back pocket.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on December 01, 2008, 03:29:39 PM
Raines slid on his stomach so as not to break the cocaine vials in his back pocket.
Oddly that's why he GOT my vote.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on December 01, 2008, 03:29:39 PM
Blyleven, Dawson, Rickey, Jack Morris, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Lee Smith.
Parker gets my vote over Raines because Parkerwore a football helmet while playing baseball, made the most awesomeist throw ever in an All Star Game, and Raines slid on his stomach so as not to break the cocaine vials in his back pocket.
Didn't Parker hook Raines and Keith Hernandez up with the Pirates' parrot though?
Blyleven and Henderson are the obvious ones to me. Raines is as well.
Jim Rice should probably be in.
Murphy, meh. Murphy is fine, but if you want to take away his awful, awful finish to his career, then should you apply that to his home run total, as well? ~310 HRs doesn't have the same ring as 398, does it?
Lee Smith and Dawson should be in. I can understand the argument for Morris, but I would leave him off. He had the luck of playing on some pretty awesome teams, he's the anti-Blyleven in my book.
Mattingly had a great peak, and he'll be the poster child for the stat geek fight of peak vs career. With Boggs, Ripken and Winfield all in his division, it's hard to make the argument that he was the best player in the league at any point. But, those 5 years or so in the mid 80s were pretty damn awesome. If you vote for him, it's tough to not vote for Parker, though.
So, if I had a ballot...Blyleven, Raines, Henderson, Dawson, Smith, Rice, Tommy John. Fuck Harold Baines.
Quote from: TJ on December 01, 2008, 03:34:17 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on December 01, 2008, 03:29:39 PM
Blyleven, Dawson, Rickey, Jack Morris, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Lee Smith.
Parker gets my vote over Raines because Parkerwore a football helmet while playing baseball, made the most awesomeist throw ever in an All Star Game, and Raines slid on his stomach so as not to break the cocaine vials in his back pocket.
Didn't Parker hook Raines and Keith Hernandez up with the Pirates' parrot though?
There's a whole coke tree than can be rooted with those late 70s/early 80s Pirates and Cardinals.
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2008, 03:53:48 PM
I can understand the argument for Morris, but I would leave him off. He had the luck of playing on some pretty awesome teams, he's the anti-Blyleven in my book.
Actually, Blyleven was part of two World Series winners in his career--the '79 Pirates and the '87 Twins--winning a game and pitching well in each of the series.
I went with Blyleven, Dawson, Henderson, Morris and Lee Arthur. On further thought, I probably should have added Rice and Tommy John. The rest of 'em can eat the lint out of Ron Santo's prosthetic.
I think that Henderson will insist that his name be taken off of the ballot, since you have to be retired for five years, and Rickey, like Sammy, doesn't seem to think that his playing days are over.
Quote from: CBStew on December 01, 2008, 04:05:33 PM
I think that Henderson will insist that his name be taken off of the ballot, since you have to be retired for five years, and Rickey, like Sammy, doesn't seem to think that his playing days are over.
I'm thinking that Rickey's been waiting to come back now that he is in the Hall of Fame. Jim Palmer tried that 20 years ago and failed miserably in Spring Training.
Quote from: Mike D on December 01, 2008, 04:07:22 PM
Quote from: CBStew on December 01, 2008, 04:05:33 PM
I think that Henderson will insist that his name be taken off of the ballot, since you have to be retired for five years, and Rickey, like Sammy, doesn't seem to think that his playing days are over.
I'm thinking that Rickey's been waiting to come back now that he is in the Hall of Fame. Jim Palmer tried that 20 years ago and failed miserably in Spring Training.
Didn't Palmer pitch in one spring training game, give up a couple runs and tear his hamstring?
Mark Prior would die to have that kind of spring training.
I hope Rickey has spent the better part of the last 5 years working on his acceptance speech. Or I hope he didn't work on it at all. I can't decide.
Is this a good time to climb up on my Curt Flood/Marvin Miller soapbox?
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2008, 06:43:12 PM
Is this a good time to climb up on my Curt Flood/Marvin Miller soapbox?
Why? So you can actually see your monitor?
Quote from: Eli on December 01, 2008, 03:02:48 PM
Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, McGwire, and Dawson.
Mine'd
Quote from: Andy on December 01, 2008, 03:12:18 PM
Blyleven, Dawson, Rickey, Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Lee Smiff
And yes, I only voted for Rice because I voted for Dawson, but putting Jim Rice in the HOF is a small price to pay for having Andre in.
This'n. Minus Raines. WTF?
If I was going to rank my votes by how worthy I think them of being in the Hall it'd be:
Rickey
Blyleven
Dawson
Morris
Rice
Raines
Smith
Rickey's Hall speech will be one of the greatest of all time. "Rickey knows all these guys behind Rickey are honored to be in the Hall with Rickey."
I've never understood why Blyleven can't get in. He's got a much stronger case than (gasp) Ron Santo.
Andre is the balls, I've forgiven him for sucking the air out of every really in the 89 playoffs and want him in the Hall.
I'm ambivalent about Raines, his highest comp was Lou Brock. If he never gets in, I won't care.
I voted for Lee Arthur Smith because he was a Cub. And because it makes Jim Frey look even worse...if possible.
Baines
Blyleven
Dawson
Henderson
Smith
I fucking hate Rice and although Morris was a workhorse who pitched a shitload of innings for a very long time, they were only slightly above average. If Blyleven can't get in, there's no way Morris should be there.
As much as I love Dawson, it's hard to make a case for him in my view. I just think his knees turned too much of his career into a "what if"
Jim Rice was just Kent Hrbek on a better team, except Hrbek hit better late and close. I don't think it's that significant of a stat, but Jim Rice people always claim some BS about how no one wanted to face him in clutch situations despite the numbers not bearing it out. Seriously, dude has fewer HRs/AB then Kent fucking Hrbek, wasn't a good defensive player, and benefited from a great hitters park and a great lineup.
I think only Ricky should get any votes this year, he deserves every last one of them.
Quote from: Pre on December 02, 2008, 02:51:39 AM
As much as I love Dawson, it's hard to make a case for him in my view. I just think his knees turned too much of his career into a "what if"
Jim Rice was just Kent Hrbek on a better team, except Hrbek hit better late and close. I don't think it's that significant of a stat, but Jim Rice people always claim some BS about how no one wanted to face him in clutch situations despite the numbers not bearing it out. Seriously, dude has fewer HRs/AB then Kent fucking Hrbek, wasn't a good defensive player, and benefited from a great hitters park and a great lineup.
I think only Ricky should get any votes this year, he deserves every last one of them.
The shame is that Rickey won't get voted in unanimously - although he'll probably get as close as anybody. I firmly believe that those people who don't vote for him should be outed and have future votes taken off them. If Rickey's not a first-ballot HOFer, then who is? If you're not voting for him, you're bitter and twisted and are probably Joe Morgan.
And I will also cheerfully admit that my "votes" for Smith and Hawk are at least partially based on their being Cubs. Otherwise, they probably don't quite make the cut.
I'll be happy when Mattingly is off the ballot once and for all. He's not a Hall of Famer.
If he is, so is Dick Allen.
Same thing with Gil Hodges. If he's in, so is Frank Howard and Norm Cash.
Quote from: Kerm on December 01, 2008, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2008, 06:43:12 PM
Is this a good time to climb up on my Curt Flood/Marvin Miller soapbox?
Why? So you can actually see your monitor?
www.instantrimshot.com
Bly, Henderson, John, Smith and Rice.
If John has the surgery and never pitches again, or pitched like Bob Howry, we'd have lost a bunch of careers to shredded UCLs.
Meh. Felix Pie had the Josias Manzanillo surgery where they sew one of your balls to your sac, and I don't see anybody clamoring for Manzanillo in the HOF. Better to have your balls in tact than your elbows.
Quote from: ~Apex on December 01, 2008, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: Andy on December 01, 2008, 03:12:18 PM
Blyleven, Dawson, Rickey, Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Lee Smiff
And yes, I only voted for Rice because I voted for Dawson, but putting Jim Rice in the HOF is a small price to pay for having Andre in.
This'n. Minus Raines. WTF?
I hate to be the one to piss in your wheaties, Pex...but when you ignore homer thoughts and look at independent metrics *puts on Saberweenie cap*, Dawson had a weaker career than not only Raines, but also Harold F'in Baines.
Career OPS+Raines 123
Baines 120
Hawk 119
Even if you don't weight it and just look at the raw OPS, you get:
Baines .821
Raines .810
Hawk .805
Other than Rickey, Raines was the best leadoff hitter in baseball for most of his career. He was a monster on-base machine. Dawson wasn't very good at getting on base, with a few years excepted. He hit for the best power of the three. Baines was almost a perfect hybrid between the two. It gets worse when you look at Jim Rice, and his OPS+ of 128. He was Baines with more power.
You can't vote for Dawson and dismiss the other three, unless you're cool with the hall of fame being about as accurate a judge of baseball ability as, say, a gold glove.
Raines is also the most efficient basestealer in history, at something like 86 percent.
Quote from: ChuckD on December 01, 2008, 07:09:32 PM
Quote from: Eli on December 01, 2008, 03:02:48 PM
Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, McGwire, and Dawson.
Mine'd
Goddamnit, I hate when I agree with Chuck.
No one else for McGwire?
I don't think McGwire was good enough to be in the Hall of Fame.
Early in his career he was a nice player with good power, but nothing extraordinary, in fact he had some terrible batting averages .201, a couple in the .230s. Then, he started getting hurt in '92. All of a sudden in '96 he's enormous and starts putting up huge numbers like 52 homers in 130 games. He obviously had even huger years in in '97, '98 and '99, but he started getting hurt again in '00 and he hit .187 in '01 and he was gone.
He was never a particularly good first baseman, he never hit more than 27 doubles in a season. He was Adam Dunn on steroids, literally. A really good player, who was fun to watch take batting practice. I don't care if none of the steroid guys ever get in, but the two who I think only put up numbers remotely close to HOF caliber because of 'roids were McGwire and Sosa, and I hope they rot in baseball hell for eternity.
Quote from: PenFoe on December 02, 2008, 02:41:17 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on December 01, 2008, 07:09:32 PM
Quote from: Eli on December 01, 2008, 03:02:48 PM
Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, McGwire, and Dawson.
Mine'd
Goddamnit, I hate when I agree with Chuck.
No one else for McGwire?
Oh, and Dale Murphy, too.
I'm for that guy being in.
Quote from: PenFoe on December 02, 2008, 03:09:18 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on December 02, 2008, 02:41:17 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on December 01, 2008, 07:09:32 PM
Quote from: Eli on December 01, 2008, 03:02:48 PM
Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, McGwire, and Dawson.
Mine'd
Goddamnit, I hate when I agree with Chuck.
No one else for McGwire?
Oh, and Dale Murphy, too.
I'm for that guy being in.
DPD.
Apologies to ChuckD.
I LOVE when I agree with him.
Chuck G?
Not so much.
The following comment was posted today on a Fox Sports story about a Cardinal prospect who was suspended for drug use. It rivals our "morans" man. Maybe it is our "morans" man.
"Just makes me wonder why imbiciles on here consider Barry Bonds the face of Steroids."
If you don't vote for McGwire based upon the steroids, I can certainly accept that. But to say he doesn't have the numbers is ridiculous. The guy hit 583 home runs and did it at a pace faster than anyone who's ever played the game at 10.6 AB/HR. He has the 12th highest OPS+ of all time. I don't know why his hitting .260 or whatever should keep him from the HOF. He got on base 39% of the time he came to the dish. In my book, Killebrew and McCovey deserve their spots and McGwire put up similar (in some cases, better) numbers than both. And to argue against him on defensive grounds is disingenuous. Aren't most first basemen playing first base because they can hit, but don't have the glove to play third?
And you're wrong, Andy. Mark McGwire had 28 doubles in 1987.
Also, I probably wouldn't vote for Dawson based upon his stats, but I'm a huge homer and Hawk gave me some good Bonertime back before I ever knew what a boner was.
Quote from: ChuckD on December 03, 2008, 12:10:51 AM
If you don't vote for McGwire based upon the steroids, I can certainly accept that. But to say he doesn't have the numbers is ridiculous. The guy hit 583 home runs and did it at a pace faster than anyone who's ever played the game at 10.6 AB/HR. He has the 12th highest OPS+ of all time. I don't know why his hitting .260 or whatever should keep him from the HOF. He got on base 39% of the time he came to the dish. In my book, Killebrew and McCovey deserve their spots and McGwire put up similar (in some cases, better) numbers than both. And to argue against him on defensive grounds is disingenuous. Aren't most first basemen playing first base because they can hit, but don't have the glove to play third?
And you're wrong, Andy. Mark McGwire had 28 doubles in 1987.
Also, I probably wouldn't vote for Dawson based upon his stats, but I'm a huge homer and Hawk gave me some good Bonertime back before I ever knew what a boner was.
I love it when I agree with Chuck
D.
Quote from: ChuckD on December 03, 2008, 12:10:51 AM
If you don't vote for McGwire based upon the steroids, I can certainly accept that. But to say he doesn't have the numbers is ridiculous. The guy hit 583 home runs and did it at a pace faster than anyone who's ever played the game at 10.6 AB/HR. He has the 12th highest OPS+ of all time. I don't know why his hitting .260 or whatever should keep him from the HOF. He got on base 39% of the time he came to the dish. In my book, Killebrew and McCovey deserve their spots and McGwire put up similar (in some cases, better) numbers than both. And to argue against him on defensive grounds is disingenuous. Aren't most first basemen playing first base because they can hit, but don't have the glove to play third?
And you're wrong, Andy. Mark McGwire had 28 doubles in 1987.
Also, I probably wouldn't vote for Dawson based upon his stats, but I'm a huge homer and Hawk gave me some good Bonertime back before I ever knew what a boner was.
Hawk gave you bonertime
back?
I totally agree McGwire should be in. He should just have to wait because of the steroid issue. I don't think he's waited long enough.
It's weird because I'm usually of the mindset that you're either a HOF'er or you're not. This whole, first ballot thing is dumb. Still, I'd make McGwire wait it out.
If Big Mac does get in (and I'm not sure he will), it will create quite a dilemma for the Satanic Fowl and Satan's Minions. They have pretty much thrown him under the bus since the Congressional testimony, which was weird because they always acted as if he had come up through their system and was a lifelong Cardinal. Now, you don't hear shit about shit from them. But if he got elected to the Hall, they might start crowing again.
Quote from: Andre Dawson's Creek on December 03, 2008, 10:11:33 AM
I totally agree McGwire should be in. He should just have to wait because of the steroid issue. I don't think he's waited long enough.
It's weird because I'm usually of the mindset that you're either a HOF'er or you're not. This whole, first ballot thing is dumb. Still, I'd make McGwire wait it out.
Well, I think the difference is you're not voting against him for the asinine reason of keeping it from being unanimous. It's to make him sweat it out a bit from being a roided-up cheat-monkey. Which I get and sort of agree with.
Quote from: Dave B on December 03, 2008, 10:19:04 AM
If Big Mac does get in (and I'm not sure he will), it will create quite a dilemma for the Satanic Fowl and Satan's Minions. They have pretty much thrown him under the bus since the Congressional testimony, which was weird because they always acted as if he had come up through their system and was a lifelong Cardinal. Now, you don't hear shit about shit from them. But if he got elected to the Hall, they might start crowing again.
I'd like to hear his induction speech, since he doesn't want to discuss the past.
Quote from: Fork on December 03, 2008, 10:21:06 AM
Quote from: Dave B on December 03, 2008, 10:19:04 AM
If Big Mac does get in (and I'm not sure he will), it will create quite a dilemma for the Satanic Fowl and Satan's Minions. They have pretty much thrown him under the bus since the Congressional testimony, which was weird because they always acted as if he had come up through their system and was a lifelong Cardinal. Now, you don't hear shit about shit from them. But if he got elected to the Hall, they might start crowing again.
I'd like to hear his induction speech, since he doesn't want to discuss the past.
That still allows him to talk about the present and future. That's two-thirds of all possible material!
yeah, he can talk about his dramatic weight-loss and his future health problems.
The Hawk. A Hall of Famer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847)
Surprising, especially since I figured there were a few others on this year's ballot who would get in before Dawson. But I like it.
Quote from: motown on January 06, 2010, 01:15:53 PM
The Hawk. A Hall of Famer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847)
Surprising, especially since I figured there were a few others on this year's ballot who would get in before Dawson. But I like it.
Dawson is sure to recall all the people he has touched throughout the years in his acceptance speech.
Damn.
I forgot to put Robby Alomar on my Dead Pool list.
Oh, and it's about motherfucking time at least 75% of HOF voters extricated their crania from their rectal orifice and put the fucking Hawk in.
Quote from: powen01 on January 06, 2010, 01:19:18 PM
Quote from: motown on January 06, 2010, 01:15:53 PM
The Hawk. A Hall of Famer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847)
Surprising, especially since I figured there were a few others on this year's ballot who would get in before Dawson. But I like it.
Dawson is sure to recall all the people he has touched throughout the years in his acceptance speech.
I only wish he had been able to touch Eric Show.
Quote from: CT III on January 06, 2010, 01:21:07 PM
Quote from: powen01 on January 06, 2010, 01:19:18 PM
Quote from: motown on January 06, 2010, 01:15:53 PM
The Hawk. A Hall of Famer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847)
Surprising, especially since I figured there were a few others on this year's ballot who would get in before Dawson. But I like it.
Dawson is sure to recall all the people he has touched throughout the years in his acceptance speech.
I only wish he had been able to touch Eric Show.
Yeah? Well, who's dead now?
I love Dawson but to be honest I didn't think he was a HoFer for reasons we've discussed in length before.
But, fuck it, once Rice went in last year than Dawson belongs.
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and it's about motherfucking time at least 75% of HOF voters extricated their crania from their rectal orifice and put the fucking Hawk in.
Maybe next year the voters can extricate their brains and vote in Alomar, Raines and Blyleven, who were all better players.
Congratulations Andre.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:30:50 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and it's about motherfucking time at least 75% of HOF voters extricated their crania from their rectal orifice and put the fucking Hawk in.
Maybe next year the voters can extricate their brains and vote in Alomar, Raines and Blyleven, who were all better players.
Yeah but Robbie Alomar spit on a guy. Totally not cool, brah.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:30:50 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and it's about motherfucking time at least 75% of HOF voters extricated their crania from their rectal orifice and put the fucking Hawk in.
Maybe next year the voters can extricate their brains and vote in Alomar, Raines and Blyleven, who were all better players.
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:30:50 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and it's about motherfucking time at least 75% of HOF voters extricated their crania from their rectal orifice and put the fucking Hawk in.
Maybe next year the voters can extricate their brains and vote in Alomar, Raines and Blyleven, who were all better players.
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
DRLP'ing yourself in the same thread? (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6459.msg159196#msg159196)
Priceless.
And who are you, Nancy Reagan?
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:30:50 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and it's about motherfucking time at least 75% of HOF voters extricated their crania from their rectal orifice and put the fucking Hawk in.
Maybe next year the voters can extricate their brains and vote in Alomar, Raines and Blyleven, who were all better players.
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
Maybe you're new here, but I'm pretty sure that Eli's claim was strictly based upon non-TORP statistics.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:30:50 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and it's about motherfucking time at least 75% of HOF voters extricated their crania from their rectal orifice and put the fucking Hawk in.
Maybe next year the voters can extricate their brains and vote in Alomar, Raines and Blyleven, who were all better players.
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
Yeah, you should slide in feet first in hopes of stabbing a darkie, like Ty Cobb.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
I'm not even looking to start a Dawson argument. Just saying that if the Hawk got in, those three guys should be in as well. Specifically Alomar. I really hate the "make-a-guy-wait" concept. Either someone is a Hall of Famer or he's not. And Alomar is definitely a Hall of Famer.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:51:46 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
I'm not even looking to start a Dawson argument. Just saying that if the Hawk got in, those three guys should be in as well. Specifically Alomar. I really hate the "make-a-guy-wait" concept. Either someone is a Hall of Famer or he's not. And Alomar is definitely a Hall of Famer.
Tdubbs thinks that's some bullshit too.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:30:50 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and it's about motherfucking time at least 75% of HOF voters extricated their crania from their rectal orifice and put the fucking Hawk in.
Maybe next year the voters can extricate their brains and vote in Alomar, Raines and Blyleven, who were all better players.
Blyleven should have been in years ago.
Alomar will go in, but he's not first-year great.
Raines? Not better than Dawson.
When people pull out all this "five-tool player" talk, Dawson is one of the guys you put on the list. The list which starts with Mays and Clemente.
Quote from: powen01 on January 06, 2010, 01:56:18 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:51:46 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
I'm not even looking to start a Dawson argument. Just saying that if the Hawk got in, those three guys should be in as well. Specifically Alomar. I really hate the "make-a-guy-wait" concept. Either someone is a Hall of Famer or he's not. And Alomar is definitely a Hall of Famer.
Tdubbs thinks that's some bullshit too.
Totally broseefus.
Raines is awesome, Almoar is awesomer.
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 02:08:17 PM
Raines? Not better than Dawson.
He was a lot better.
Lou Brock is a happy man, though, since he no longer has the worst on-base percentage among Hall of Fame outfielders.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 02:21:12 PM
Lou Brock is a happy man, though, since he no longer has the worst on-base percentage among Hall of Fame outfielders.
I'm pretty sure Lou Brock doesn't give a shit.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 02:08:17 PM
Raines? Not better than Dawson.
He was a lot better.
his OPS is a whopping .004 higher than Dawson's.
Dawson has over 250 more home runs, and was far superior in the field.
I'm not sure Raines ever gets in, only because he's under 3000 hits.
The real outrage is that Pat Hentgen only got one vote.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 02:36:26 PM
The real outrage is that Pat Hentgen only got one vote.
That's offset by Todd Zeile's -0- votes.
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 02:08:17 PM
Raines? Not better than Dawson.
He was a lot better.
his OPS is a whopping .004 higher than Dawson's.
Dawson has over 250 more home runs, and was far superior in the field.
I'm not sure Raines ever gets in, only because he's under 3000 hits.
If we're cherry picking stats, he stole 494 bases while only being caught _37_ more times.
He got on base .62 (or almost 20%) more than Dawson.
This thread is useless without pics.
(http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/giants/2006/06/15/sp_andre_dawson.jpg)
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1987/0720_large.jpg)
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/01/20/hall.of.fame/t1_dawson.jpg)
(http://images.bleedcubbieblue.com/images/admin/dawson1.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Andre_dawson.jpg)
(http://product.images.fansedge.com/45-20/45-20622-F.jpg)
Those are some historic pictures.
Is that a young Bad Kermit wearing the Hills shirt and calculator watch?
Fuck it, the man was the balls.
In fact, they should put a statue of him outside Wrigley Field with "THE BALLS" on the pedestal.
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 03:29:29 PM
Fuck it, the man was the balls.
In fact, they should put a statue of him outside Wrigley Field with "THE BALLS" on the pedestal.
Lil' Kerm in that picture got a good look at his ballz.
Quote from: CT III on January 06, 2010, 03:16:56 PM
Is that a young Bad Kermit wearing the Hills shirt and calculator watch?
That kid had cancer, IDITO.
Raines, Blyleven, Alomar should all be in.
Of course I'm still wondering how Tommy John never got elected. He was a very good pitcher before and after his surgery, but the fact that he was as good as he was after the surgery is a big reason why it became commonplace.
Quote from: De Jesus on December 02, 2008, 01:47:21 PM
Quote from: ~Apex on December 01, 2008, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: Andy on December 01, 2008, 03:12:18 PM
Blyleven, Dawson, Rickey, Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Lee Smiff
And yes, I only voted for Rice because I voted for Dawson, but putting Jim Rice in the HOF is a small price to pay for having Andre in.
This'n. Minus Raines. WTF?
I hate to be the one to piss in your wheaties, Pex...but when you ignore homer thoughts and look at independent metrics *puts on Saberweenie cap*, Dawson had a weaker career than not only Raines, but also Harold F'in Baines.
Career OPS+
Raines 123
Baines 120
Hawk 119
Even if you don't weight it and just look at the raw OPS, you get:
Baines .821
Raines .810
Hawk .805
Other than Rickey, Raines was the best leadoff hitter in baseball for most of his career. He was a monster on-base machine. Dawson wasn't very good at getting on base, with a few years excepted. He hit for the best power of the three. Baines was almost a perfect hybrid between the two. It gets worse when you look at Jim Rice, and his OPS+ of 128. He was Baines with more power.
You can't vote for Dawson and dismiss the other three, unless you're cool with the hall of fame being about as accurate a judge of baseball ability as, say, a gold glove.
8 year olds, dude.
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 06, 2010, 05:42:39 PM
Quote from: De Jesus on December 02, 2008, 01:47:21 PM
Quote from: ~Apex on December 01, 2008, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: Andy on December 01, 2008, 03:12:18 PM
Blyleven, Dawson, Rickey, Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Lee Smiff
And yes, I only voted for Rice because I voted for Dawson, but putting Jim Rice in the HOF is a small price to pay for having Andre in.
This'n. Minus Raines. WTF?
I hate to be the one to piss in your wheaties, Pex...but when you ignore homer thoughts and look at independent metrics *puts on Saberweenie cap*, Dawson had a weaker career than not only Raines, but also Harold F'in Baines.
Career OPS+
Raines 123
Baines 120
Hawk 119
Even if you don't weight it and just look at the raw OPS, you get:
Baines .821
Raines .810
Hawk .805
Other than Rickey, Raines was the best leadoff hitter in baseball for most of his career. He was a monster on-base machine. Dawson wasn't very good at getting on base, with a few years excepted. He hit for the best power of the three. Baines was almost a perfect hybrid between the two. It gets worse when you look at Jim Rice, and his OPS+ of 128. He was Baines with more power.
You can't vote for Dawson and dismiss the other three, unless you're cool with the hall of fame being about as accurate a judge of baseball ability as, say, a gold glove.
8 year olds, dude.
Dude may be right, but De Jesus is still a fucking douchebag
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 02:08:17 PM
Raines? Not better than Dawson.
He was a lot better.
This statement is asinine.
OPS (or OPS+) is a 4-point margin, with Raines having the margin in either. So the huge OPB gap is basically negated by Dawson's slugging - in other words, Raines was as good a leadoff man as Dawson was a middle-of-the-lineup guy.
As far as any of the real statfaggotry (Gray Ink, Black Ink, HOF Monitor, HOF Standards) goes, it depends on which one you go by - some of them Dawson ranks higher, some Raines ranks higher.
As DeJesus pointed out, they're in the same echelon.
Which means, it depends on what is important to each individual. I like cleanup hitters better, so I think Dawson is better.
But not by a lot.
BTW, if I voted, and I had to rank by merit, leaving sentiment completely out of it, it would be:
Alomar, Blyleven, Smith, Larkin, Dawson, Morris, Trammel, Raines, Martinez, McStiff.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:51:46 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
I'm not even looking to start a Dawson argument. Just saying that if the Hawk got in, those three guys should be in as well. Specifically Alomar. I really hate the "make-a-guy-wait" concept. Either someone is a Hall of Famer or he's not. And Alomar is definitely a Hall of Famer.
BTW, I think I should just THIS the shit out of this comment. Never thought of that (but that's not new for me). Thinking of the idea of someone getting into the HOF because the rest of class is meh just astounds me. Real prestigious group
Quote from: Yeti on January 06, 2010, 10:23:57 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 01:51:46 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Raines? The guy who slid head first so as to not break the cocaine vials in his back pocket? Talent-wise, perhaps. But in-no-universe on a character basis.
I'm not even looking to start a Dawson argument. Just saying that if the Hawk got in, those three guys should be in as well. Specifically Alomar. I really hate the "make-a-guy-wait" concept. Either someone is a Hall of Famer or he's not. And Alomar is definitely a Hall of Famer.
BTW, I think I should just THIS the shit out of this comment. Never thought of that (but that's not new for me). Thinking of the idea of someone getting into the HOF because the rest of class is meh just astounds me. Real prestigious group
Believe it or not, I actually agree with guys who file blank ballots - even though the HOF desparately wants at least one BBWAA electee every year, because of the revenue from Induction Weekend.
Unless it's Mariotti - in that case, open the fucking doors for Moonlight Greenberg.
Quote"For the most part of six years I was there, I really enjoyed the reception and the fact that I got to play in front of fans who really didn't put any pressure on you."
Fuck you Ryan Dempster and Mark DeRosa.
Hawk also played every single one of his home games in his MVP season of '87 under the afternoon sun. Fuck you, Lou Piniella and every other ass machine who uses day games as a ready-made excuse for failure..
Quote from: MAD on January 06, 2010, 10:45:04 PM
Quote"For the most part of six years I was there, I really enjoyed the reception and the fact that I got to play in front of fans who really didn't put any pressure on you."
Fuck you Ryan Dempster and Mark DeRosa.
And Milton Bradley. And LaTroy Hawkins. And Corey Patterson. And...
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 06, 2010, 10:45:04 PM
Quote"For the most part of six years I was there, I really enjoyed the reception and the fact that I got to play in front of fans who really didn't put any pressure on you."
Fuck you Ryan Dempster and Mark DeRosa.
And Milton Bradley. And LaTroy Hawkins. And Corey Patterson. And...
Fine. You take the black guys, I'll take the white guys...
Quote from: MAD on January 06, 2010, 10:45:04 PM
Quote"For the most part of six years I was there, I really enjoyed the reception and the fact that I got to play in front of fans who really didn't put any pressure on you."
Fuck you Ryan Dempster and Mark DeRosa.
Hawk also played every single one of his home games in his MVP season of '87 under the afternoon sun. Fuck you, Lou Piniella and every other ass machine who uses day games as a ready-made excuse for failure..
Don't forget a big, heaping fuck you to Dusty Baker, Milton Bradley, and Jacque Jones for their insinuations that the Cub fans in the outfield are racist and present a hostile playing condition.
Edit: forkfaced
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 10:03:23 PM
So the huge OPB gap is basically negated by Dawson's slugging
OBP and SLG points aren't equal.
Edit: And I get it, I'm the lone idiot here who always goes on about Dawson and how he's not HoF-worthy. I was four when he won his MVP, so I don't remember any of the things that made him a mofo badass and all that stuff. So all I have to judge him on is the numbers, which don't really impress me. I apologize to everyone for ruining the Hawk's Hall of Fame thread.
Quote from: MAD on January 06, 2010, 10:53:47 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 06, 2010, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 06, 2010, 10:45:04 PM
Quote"For the most part of six years I was there, I really enjoyed the reception and the fact that I got to play in front of fans who really didn't put any pressure on you."
Fuck you Ryan Dempster and Mark DeRosa.
And Milton Bradley. And LaTroy Hawkins. And Corey Patterson. And...
Fine. You take the black guys, I'll take the white guys...
I'll take "What Huey says when he goes out on a Saturday night" for $500, Alex.
Congrats to one of my favorite Cubs, Andre Dawson.
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 10:03:23 PM
So the huge OPB gap is basically negated by Dawson's slugging
OBP and SLG points aren't equal.
If that's the case, why use OPS at all?
Quote
Edit: And I get it, I'm the lone idiot here who always goes on about Dawson and how he's not HoF-worthy. I was four when he won his MVP, so I don't remember any of the things that made him a mofo badass and all that stuff. So all I have to judge him on is the numbers, which don't really impress me. I apologize to everyone for ruining the Hawk's Hall of Fame thread.
No, that's not it at all.
First of all, numbers only take you so far - while Ty Cobb's HR numbers are nothing on their own, the guy won Triple Crowns.
OBP is, in the context of baseball history, a pretty new tool for player evaluation. Dusty Baker's idea of "base clogging" is mind-numbing in modern terms, but before Bill James, it was never really emphasized - as stated earlier, Lou Brock's OBP is abysmal for a HOFer, and he spent his entire career in St. Louis as a leadoff hitter. His numbers tell us now that he's nothing more than Juan Pierre with longevity, but when he played, he was a superstar.
As for Dawson, as a cleanup hitter, on the occasions he walked it was because teams would rather pitch around him than have him put one in the seats. He always swung away because the understanding (until recently) was middle-of-the-lineup guys were at the plate to hit the ball, not walk down to first base.
If Dawson never played for the Cubs, most guys here would agree he's borderline at best. But he did, and he was a great player on some awful teams (his era's Banks - his 1987 season was absolutely insane compared to his teammates), and his one shot at the big time as a Cub (1989), you could see how much pain he was in. Fucking Les Lancaster.
This is one of those things that happens every year - fans wonder why their borderline guy doesn't go in (See: Mattingly, Don and Trammel, Alan) and they use numbers of guys who are in (Tony Perez and Ozzie Smith, respectively) as their arguments.
The Hall of Fame's stated purpose is to immortalize the greatest players in history. Its unintentional purpose has been to allow people to argue the merits/demerits of those in & out ad infinitum.
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 07:42:53 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 10:03:23 PM
So the huge OPB gap is basically negated by Dawson's slugging
OBP and SLG points aren't equal.
If that's the case, why use OPS at all?
Because it's easily calculated and understandable to the statistical layperson. People understand (more or less) OBP and SLG, so adding them is an easy way to combine the two aspects in to a rough measure of total offensive performance.
wOBA is probably the preferred metric that accounts for OBP and SLG; it uses linear weighting for each outcome and is positively statfaggy as it was created by Tango.
Quote((0.72 x NIBB) + (0.75 x HBP) + (0.90 x 1B) + (0.92 x RBOE) + (1.24 x 2B) + (1.56 x 3B) + (1.95 x HR) / PA
As you can see, it's not easily calculated, but it does improve on OPS.
Somewhere in between the two, runs created metrics are pretty good at providing a pretty accurate, pretty easily calculable account of total offense; they do so by multiplying OBP and SLG.
And with that, I'm done talking about this because the last time I brought up RC with respect to the HoF, I ended up declaring Fukudome to be a better theoretical baseball player than Steve Nebraska or something.
WHEN ARE DEY GONNA PUT DAT SANTO IN? HE'S GOT WORSE KNEES DAN DA HAWWWK.
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 07:42:53 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 10:03:23 PM
So the huge OPB gap is basically negated by Dawson's slugging
OBP and SLG points aren't equal.
If that's the case, why use OPS at all?
Quote
Edit: And I get it, I'm the lone idiot here who always goes on about Dawson and how he's not HoF-worthy. I was four when he won his MVP, so I don't remember any of the things that made him a mofo badass and all that stuff. So all I have to judge him on is the numbers, which don't really impress me. I apologize to everyone for ruining the Hawk's Hall of Fame thread.
No, that's not it at all.
First of all, numbers only take you so far - while Ty Cobb's HR numbers are nothing on their own, the guy won Triple Crowns.
OBP is, in the context of baseball history, a pretty new tool for player evaluation. Dusty Baker's idea of "base clogging" is mind-numbing in modern terms, but before Bill James, it was never really emphasized - as stated earlier, Lou Brock's OBP is abysmal for a HOFer, and he spent his entire career in St. Louis as a leadoff hitter. His numbers tell us now that he's nothing more than Juan Pierre with longevity, but when he played, he was a superstar.
As for Dawson, as a cleanup hitter, on the occasions he walked it was because teams would rather pitch around him than have him put one in the seats. He always swung away because the understanding (until recently) was middle-of-the-lineup guys were at the plate to hit the ball, not walk down to first base.
If Dawson never played for the Cubs, most guys here would agree he's borderline at best. But he did, and he was a great player on some awful teams (his era's Banks - his 1987 season was absolutely insane compared to his teammates), and his one shot at the big time as a Cub (1989), you could see how much pain he was in. Fucking Les Lancaster.
This is one of those things that happens every year - fans wonder why their borderline guy doesn't go in (See: Mattingly, Don and Trammel, Alan) and they use numbers of guys who are in (Tony Perez and Ozzie Smith, respectively) as their arguments.
The Hall of Fame's stated purpose is to immortalize the greatest players in history. Its unintentional purpose has been to allow people to argue the merits/demerits of those in & out ad infinitum.
Just because we finally have metrics that measure such skills, doesn't mean those skills didn't exist before.
Furthermore, this isn't something all that new. Earl Weaver certainly understood the concept of doing the most with yoru 27 outs. The idea that you can't score unless you get on base isn't such a modern concept either. The point isn't to look at one stat and start to compare players, that's what CFIHP keeps trying to do. The idea is to looks at a player, objectively, and see what he contributes to his team's success. That may be getting on bae, it may be hitting home runs or doubles. It's this whole "he's a .290 hitter" thing when talking about a guy who still makes an out in 68% of his plate appearences that bugs me.
I will also admit that my Hawk-for-HoF is purely based on his time as a Cub and how fucking awesome he was. His numbers are most definitely HoF-borderline at best. Eli, get with the program, though. He was pretty damn cool. And he was most certainly a bad-ass. Him and Lee Smith. Jules's wallet in Pulp Fiction was based on them.
Quote from: Oleg on January 07, 2010, 08:53:01 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 07:42:53 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 10:03:23 PM
So the huge OPB gap is basically negated by Dawson's slugging
OBP and SLG points aren't equal.
If that's the case, why use OPS at all?
Quote
Edit: And I get it, I'm the lone idiot here who always goes on about Dawson and how he's not HoF-worthy. I was four when he won his MVP, so I don't remember any of the things that made him a mofo badass and all that stuff. So all I have to judge him on is the numbers, which don't really impress me. I apologize to everyone for ruining the Hawk's Hall of Fame thread.
No, that's not it at all.
First of all, numbers only take you so far - while Ty Cobb's HR numbers are nothing on their own, the guy won Triple Crowns.
OBP is, in the context of baseball history, a pretty new tool for player evaluation. Dusty Baker's idea of "base clogging" is mind-numbing in modern terms, but before Bill James, it was never really emphasized - as stated earlier, Lou Brock's OBP is abysmal for a HOFer, and he spent his entire career in St. Louis as a leadoff hitter. His numbers tell us now that he's nothing more than Juan Pierre with longevity, but when he played, he was a superstar.
As for Dawson, as a cleanup hitter, on the occasions he walked it was because teams would rather pitch around him than have him put one in the seats. He always swung away because the understanding (until recently) was middle-of-the-lineup guys were at the plate to hit the ball, not walk down to first base.
If Dawson never played for the Cubs, most guys here would agree he's borderline at best. But he did, and he was a great player on some awful teams (his era's Banks - his 1987 season was absolutely insane compared to his teammates), and his one shot at the big time as a Cub (1989), you could see how much pain he was in. Fucking Les Lancaster.
This is one of those things that happens every year - fans wonder why their borderline guy doesn't go in (See: Mattingly, Don and Trammel, Alan) and they use numbers of guys who are in (Tony Perez and Ozzie Smith, respectively) as their arguments.
The Hall of Fame's stated purpose is to immortalize the greatest players in history. Its unintentional purpose has been to allow people to argue the merits/demerits of those in & out ad infinitum.
Just because we finally have metrics that measure such skills, doesn't mean those skills didn't exist before.
Furthermore, this isn't something all that new. Earl Weaver certainly understood the concept of doing the most with yoru 27 outs. The idea that you can't score unless you get on base isn't such a modern concept either. The point isn't to look at one stat and start to compare players, that's what CFIHP keeps trying to do. The idea is to looks at a player, objectively, and see what he contributes to his team's success. That may be getting on bae, it may be hitting home runs or doubles. It's this whole "he's a .290 hitter" thing when talking about a guy who still makes an out in 68% of his plate appearences that bugs me.
I will also admit that my Hawk-for-HoF is purely based on his time as a Cub and how fucking awesome he was. His numbers are most definitely HoF-borderline at best. Eli, get with the program, though. He was pretty damn cool. And he was most certainly a bad-ass. Him and Lee Smith. Jules's wallet in Pulp Fiction was based on them.
Earl Weaver relied on pitching and waiting for the big inning.
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 09:11:08 AM
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
He did that? I've never heard this story before. Tell me more.
Quote from: ChuckD on January 07, 2010, 08:03:11 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 07:42:53 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 06, 2010, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 06, 2010, 10:03:23 PM
So the huge OPB gap is basically negated by Dawson's slugging
OBP and SLG points aren't equal.
If that's the case, why use OPS at all?
Because it's easily calculated and understandable to the statistical layperson. People understand (more or less) OBP and SLG, so adding them is an easy way to combine the two aspects in to a rough measure of total offensive performance.
wOBA is probably the preferred metric that accounts for OBP and SLG; it uses linear weighting for each outcome and is positively statfaggy as it was created by Tango.
Quote((0.72 x NIBB) + (0.75 x HBP) + (0.90 x 1B) + (0.92 x RBOE) + (1.24 x 2B) + (1.56 x 3B) + (1.95 x HR) / PA
As you can see, it's not easily calculated, but it does improve on OPS.
Somewhere in between the two, runs created metrics are pretty good at providing a pretty accurate, pretty easily calculable account of total offense; they do so by multiplying OBP and SLG.
And with that, I'm done talking about this because the last time I brought up RC with respect to the HoF, I ended up declaring Fukudome to be a better theoretical baseball player than Steve Nebraska or something.
I'm going to go ahead and speak for all the statistical laypersons and say that if that equation is the alternative, we are fine with using OPS.
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 09:11:08 AM
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
He did that? I've never heard this story before. Tell me more.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-07-mitchell-andre-dawson-jan07,0,6989682.column
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2010, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 09:11:08 AM
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
He did that? I've never heard this story before. Tell me more.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-07-mitchell-andre-dawson-jan07,0,6989682.column
Lost in there was Sutcliffe offering to take a $100K cut in pay to get Dawson signed.
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2010, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 09:11:08 AM
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
He did that? I've never heard this story before. Tell me more.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-07-mitchell-andre-dawson-jan07,0,6989682.column
Um, thanks.
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:45:10 AM
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2010, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 09:11:08 AM
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
He did that? I've never heard this story before. Tell me more.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-07-mitchell-andre-dawson-jan07,0,6989682.column
Um, thanks.
Oh, that was that one thing where you say something but really mean the opposite? Fuck. I'm going to Kermit myself.
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:45:10 AM
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2010, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 09:11:08 AM
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
He did that? I've never heard this story before. Tell me more.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-07-mitchell-andre-dawson-jan07,0,6989682.column
Um, thanks.
Eli is bordering on Chuck level of knobbery here. When something good happens to players that we like, we don't need to question it. We need to sit back, smoke a doob, listen to some Mellenstein and enjoy it. "This is ooooour country. From the East Coast to the West Coast..."
Like when the Cubs retired Fergie Jenkins' number. That was good times.
I don't have a problem with Eli nit-picking Dawson's career for credit worthiness.
I do, on the other hand, have an issue with him promoting Tim Raines to the degree he has. Dawson was a better player, period. The case can certainly be made that neither is Hall-worthy, but Raines wasn't anywhere near the all-around ballplayer Dawson was; he came up a middling second baseman who, after one year in center field, whiled away the rest of his career in the lesser of the 2 corner outfield positions. Despite his strength, he didn't have the arm for right field. Despite his speed, he didn't have the range for center. Dawson had both.
Raines had some really nice offensive years in the mid-to-late 80's, but there's no way he had a better all-around career than Hawk. And no amount of statfaggery will convince me otherwise.
Also, Bert Blyleven can be forgiven for going on a murderous spree.
That nasally douche Brian Paruck was killing a half hour last night on the Score, and he decided that by leading the list of players who have made the most outs:
Pete Rose, Hank Aaron, Rickey Henderson, Willie Mays, etc. that he was proving that the Sabermetric idea that avoiding outs is the most important thing was crap. "Because hey, the best players in history made the most outs!"
I don't know how you even mount an argument against this lunacy.
Quote from: MAD on January 07, 2010, 11:41:42 AM
I don't have a problem with Eli nit-picking Dawson's career for credit worthiness.
I do, on the other hand, have an issue with him promoting Tim Raines to the degree he has. Dawson was a better player, period. The case can certainly be made that neither is Hall-worthy, but Raines wasn't anywhere near the all-around ballplayer Dawson was; he came up a middling second baseman who, after one year in center field, whiled away the rest of his career in the lesser of the 2 corner outfield positions. Despite his strength, he didn't have the arm for right field. Despite his speed, he didn't have the range for center. Dawson had both.
Raines had some really nice offensive years in the mid-to-late 80's, but there's no way he had a better all-around career than Hawk. And no amount of statfaggery will convince me otherwise.
Also, Bert Blyleven can be forgiven for going on a murderous spree.
Here's an intelligent case for Raines from another Kansas Citian:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/12/17/posnanski.tim.raines/index.html
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 07, 2010, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:45:10 AM
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2010, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 09:11:08 AM
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
He did that? I've never heard this story before. Tell me more.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-07-mitchell-andre-dawson-jan07,0,6989682.column
Um, thanks.
Eli is bordering on Chuck level of knobbery here. When something good happens to players that we like, we don't need to question it. We need to sit back, smoke a doob, listen to some Mellenstein and enjoy it. "This is ooooour country. From the East Coast to the West Coast..."
Like when the Cubs retired Fergie Jenkins' and Greg Maddux' number. That was good times.
Did some say knobbery (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6696.msg172109#msg172109)?
Quote from: Ivy6 on January 07, 2010, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: MAD on January 07, 2010, 11:41:42 AM
I don't have a problem with Eli nit-picking Dawson's career for credit worthiness.
I do, on the other hand, have an issue with him promoting Tim Raines to the degree he has. Dawson was a better player, period. The case can certainly be made that neither is Hall-worthy, but Raines wasn't anywhere near the all-around ballplayer Dawson was; he came up a middling second baseman who, after one year in center field, whiled away the rest of his career in the lesser of the 2 corner outfield positions. Despite his strength, he didn't have the arm for right field. Despite his speed, he didn't have the range for center. Dawson had both.
Raines had some really nice offensive years in the mid-to-late 80's, but there's no way he had a better all-around career than Hawk. And no amount of statfaggery will convince me otherwise.
Also, Bert Blyleven can be forgiven for going on a murderous spree.
Here's an intelligent case for Raines from another Kansas Citian:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/12/17/posnanski.tim.raines/index.html
Que Chuck's outrage about Paul Molitor's drug use...
Quote from: MAD on January 07, 2010, 11:55:58 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 07, 2010, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:45:10 AM
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2010, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: Eli on January 07, 2010, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 09:11:08 AM
Another instance of Dawson badassery - can you imagine any player today approaching a team he wanted to play for with a blank contract?
He did that? I've never heard this story before. Tell me more.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-07-mitchell-andre-dawson-jan07,0,6989682.column
Um, thanks.
Eli is bordering on Chuck level of knobbery here. When something good happens to players that we like, we don't need to question it. We need to sit back, smoke a doob, listen to some Mellenstein and enjoy it. "This is ooooour country. From the East Coast to the West Coast..."
Like when the Cubs retired Fergie Jenkins' and Greg Maddux' number. That was good times.
Did some say knobbery (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6696.msg172109#msg172109)?
I think Pex was being ironic, even self-defecating.
Quote from: MAD on January 07, 2010, 11:41:42 AM
I don't have a problem with Eli nit-picking Dawson's career for credit worthiness.
I do, on the other hand, have an issue with him promoting Tim Raines to the degree he has. Dawson was a better player, period. The case can certainly be made that neither is Hall-worthy, but Raines wasn't anywhere near the all-around ballplayer Dawson was; he came up a middling second baseman who, after one year in center field, whiled away the rest of his career in the lesser of the 2 corner outfield positions. Despite his strength, he didn't have the arm for right field. Despite his speed, he didn't have the range for center. Dawson had both.
Raines had some really nice offensive years in the mid-to-late 80's, but there's no way he had a better all-around career than Hawk. And no amount of statfaggery will convince me otherwise.
Also, Bert Blyleven can be forgiven for going on a murderous spree.
You're wrong about Raines, yet correct about Blyleven. Weird.
Dawson is borderline, so I wouldn't be that upset of he never got in. I think he deserves it but I am obviously biased. But I will be upset if Jay Hilgenberg never gets a bust in Canton.
Quote from: Tony on January 07, 2010, 12:26:35 PM
Dawson is borderline, so I wouldn't be that upset of he never got in. I think he deserves it but I am obviously biased. But I will be upset if Jay Hilgenberg never gets a bust in Canton.
Covert, too.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 07, 2010, 01:04:32 PM
Quote from: Tony on January 07, 2010, 12:26:35 PM
Dawson is borderline, so I wouldn't be that upset of he never got in. I think he deserves it but I am obviously biased. But I will be upset if Jay Hilgenberg never gets a bust in Canton.
Covert, too.
Richard Dent. RICHARD FUCKING DENT.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on January 07, 2010, 01:04:32 PM
Quote from: Tony on January 07, 2010, 12:26:35 PM
Dawson is borderline, so I wouldn't be that upset of he never got in. I think he deserves it but I am obviously biased. But I will be upset if Jay Hilgenberg never gets a bust in Canton.
Covert, too.
This.
Todd Perry.
Ray Guy.
Does anyone wonder what Dawson's "blank" contract might have looked if Hendry was GM in 1987? Seven years, $128 million?
Quote from: Brownie on January 07, 2010, 01:48:02 PM
Does anyone wonder what Dawson's "blank" contract might have looked if Hendry was GM in 1987? Seven years, $128 million?
+ full no-trade.
Quote from: Ivy6 on January 07, 2010, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: Brownie on January 07, 2010, 01:48:02 PM
Does anyone wonder what Dawson's "blank" contract might have looked if Hendry was GM in 1987? Seven years, $128 million?
+ full no-trade.
with a 3-year kicker after 100 games played.
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2010, 02:07:38 PM
Quote from: Ivy6 on January 07, 2010, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: Brownie on January 07, 2010, 01:48:02 PM
Does anyone wonder what Dawson's "blank" contract might have looked if Hendry was GM in 1987? Seven years, $128 million?
+ full no-trade.
with a 3-year kicker after 100 games played.
He'd have to play 2nd base though.
player option!
72 virgins!
Wait, what are we doing here?
Quote from: Oleg on January 07, 2010, 03:26:19 PM
72 virgins!
Wait, what are we doing here?
Hawk would rather have one broad who knows what she's doing.
Quote from: Andy on January 07, 2010, 11:49:01 AM
That nasally douche Brian Paruck was killing a half hour last night on the Score, and he decided that by leading the list of players who have made the most outs:
Pete Rose, Hank Aaron, Rickey Henderson, Willie Mays, etc. that he was proving that the Sabermetric idea that avoiding outs is the most important thing was crap. "Because hey, the best players in history made the most outs!"
I don't know how you even mount an argument against this lunacy.
Steven Hawking never made any outs in the MLB; ergo, he was the best player ever.
Quote from: ChuckD on January 07, 2010, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Andy on January 07, 2010, 11:49:01 AM
That nasally douche Brian Paruck was killing a half hour last night on the Score, and he decided that by leading the list of players who have made the most outs:
Pete Rose, Hank Aaron, Rickey Henderson, Willie Mays, etc. that he was proving that the Sabermetric idea that avoiding outs is the most important thing was crap. "Because hey, the best players in history made the most outs!"
I don't know how you even mount an argument against this lunacy.
Steven Hawking never made any outs in the MLB; ergo, he was the best player ever.
No one has ever shot a lower score than what I shot on a golf course this year. I'm the best golfer ever, right?
And, since the point of golf is to hit the ball as few times as possible, doesn't that mean the best thing to do is not to play at all?
Dawson said. "I did what I had to do to play and get 20 years under my belt. I look back on it and I wouldn't do it any other way. I didn't need (steroids) in my body; I was blessed and talented and I took advantage of that."
Hmmm. That is not an unequivocal denial, is it?
Quote from: CBStew on January 08, 2010, 03:48:08 PM
Dawson said. "I did what I had to do to play and get 20 years under my belt. I look back on it and I wouldn't do it any other way. I didn't need (steroids) in my body; I was blessed and talented and I took advantage of that."
Hmmm. That is not an unequivocal denial, is it?
Sounds more like omitting all the pain killers (and possibly amphetamines since most players were taking them) tactfully to me.
Dawson going in as an Expo (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35100205/ns/sports-baseball/), even though he wants to go in as a Cub.
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
I'm reminded of El Presidente. That guy was awesome.
Ellis Valentine was the fucking balls until he took a pitch to the face.
Delino DeShields.
Wait, wrong thread.
Quote from: Slack-E on January 27, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
I'm reminded of El Presidente. That guy was awesome.
Nice segue into the topic at hand, Slak.
D. Martinez. para indúcion...el no es no Blyleven, claro, pero tenga muchos ganarones, y trenta "shutouts" (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martide01.shtml) y fue muy importante para las personas se viden en la Americana Latina.
Discúten.
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on January 27, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
I'm reminded of El Presidente. That guy was awesome.
Nice segue into the topic at hand, Slak.
D. Martinez. para indúcion...el no es no Blyleven, claro, pero tenga muchos ganarones, y trenta "shutouts" (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martide01.shtml) y fue muy importante para las personas se viden en la Americana Latina.
Discúten.
El Hall of Fame me puede chupar los huevos. Andre Dawson con el gorro de los Expos? La puta que les pario!
Quote from: powen01 on January 27, 2010, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on January 27, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
I'm reminded of El Presidente. That guy was awesome.
Nice segue into the topic at hand, Slak.
D. Martinez. para indúcion...el no es no Blyleven, claro, pero tenga muchos ganarones, y trenta "shutouts" (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martide01.shtml) y fue muy importante para las personas se viden en la Americana Latina.
Discúten.
El Hall of Fame me puede chupar los huevos. Andre Dawson con el gorro de los Expos? La puta que les pario!
You quiero comer carne de crab con usted y juegan los trenes.
(no homo).
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 02:03:06 PM
Quote from: powen01 on January 27, 2010, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on January 27, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
I'm reminded of El Presidente. That guy was awesome.
Nice segue into the topic at hand, Slak.
D. Martinez. para indúcion...el no es no Blyleven, claro, pero tenga muchos ganarones, y trenta "shutouts" (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martide01.shtml) y fue muy importante para las personas se viden en la Americana Latina.
Discúten.
El Hall of Fame me puede chupar los huevos. Andre Dawson con el gorro de los Expos? La puta que les pario!
You quiero comer carne de crab con usted y juegan los trenes.
(no homo).
Que?
Quote from: Gil Gunderson on January 27, 2010, 02:06:43 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 02:03:06 PM
Quote from: powen01 on January 27, 2010, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on January 27, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
I'm reminded of El Presidente. That guy was awesome.
Nice segue into the topic at hand, Slak.
D. Martinez. para indúcion...el no es no Blyleven, claro, pero tenga muchos ganarones, y trenta "shutouts" (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martide01.shtml) y fue muy importante para las personas se viden en la Americana Latina.
Discúten.
El Hall of Fame me puede chupar los huevos. Andre Dawson con el gorro de los Expos? La puta que les pario!
You quiero comer carne de crab con usted y juegan los trenes.
(no homo).
Que?
Quieres JO en el vórtice?
Quote from: Jon on January 27, 2010, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: Gil Gunderson on January 27, 2010, 02:06:43 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 02:03:06 PM
Quote from: powen01 on January 27, 2010, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on January 27, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
I'm reminded of El Presidente. That guy was awesome.
Nice segue into the topic at hand, Slak.
D. Martinez. para indúcion...el no es no Blyleven, claro, pero tenga muchos ganarones, y trenta "shutouts" (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martide01.shtml) y fue muy importante para las personas se viden en la Americana Latina.
Discúten.
El Hall of Fame me puede chupar los huevos. Andre Dawson con el gorro de los Expos? La puta que les pario!
You quiero comer carne de crab con usted y juegan los trenes.
(no homo).
Que?
Quieres JO en el vórtice?
This is AMERICA, talk AMERICAN.
Quote from: Jon on January 27, 2010, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: Gil Gunderson on January 27, 2010, 02:06:43 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 02:03:06 PM
Quote from: powen01 on January 27, 2010, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Slack-E on January 27, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo. Goddamnit, I'm no Expos fan, but would it kill the league to have a reminder that an historic franchise existed, and that it wasn't represented solely by that smirking cock Gary Carter?
I'm reminded of El Presidente. That guy was awesome.
Nice segue into the topic at hand, Slak.
D. Martinez. para indúcion...el no es no Blyleven, claro, pero tenga muchos ganarones, y trenta "shutouts" (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martide01.shtml) y fue muy importante para las personas se viden en la Americana Latina.
Discúten.
El Hall of Fame me puede chupar los huevos. Andre Dawson con el gorro de los Expos? La puta que les pario!
You quiero comer carne de crab con usted y juegan los trenes.
(no homo).
Que?
Quieres JO en el vórtice?
Personne à Montréal ne s'inquiète des Expos, et les ressortissants tournés par expos ne s'inquiètent pas de leurs anciens joueurs de Montréal. Honorant une organisation et une ville qui ne s'inquiètent pas au-dessus d'une ville et d'un joueur que les soins est passionément ridicule.
Quote from: MAD on January 27, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
He should go in as an Expo.
I agree. After all, it's the uniform he wore during the only season he was able to crack a .900 OPS.
(Just kidding, everyone. Good for the Hawk.)
This is Phil Rogers' opinion. He is entitled to his opinion. I just wish that he would write more coherent run-on sentences.
"Along with guys such as Tim Raines, Gary Carter, Steve Rogers, Jeff Reardon, Ellis Valentine, Warren Cromartie, Larry Parrish and Tim Wallach — among others — he was part of a remarkable run for the Expos' player development staff and, no matter what he thinks about the turf at Olympic Stadium, belongs more to Montreal's fans than any among us in Chicago."
Quote from: CBStew on January 28, 2010, 01:52:05 PM
This is Phil Rogers' opinion. He is entitled to his opinion. I just wish that he would write more coherent run-on sentences.
"Along with guys such as Tim Raines, Gary Carter, Steve Rogers, Jeff Reardon, Ellis Valentine, Warren Cromartie, Larry Parrish and Tim Wallach — among others — he was part of a remarkable run for the Expos' player development staff and, no matter what he thinks about the turf at Olympic Stadium, belongs more to Montreal's fans than any among us in Chicago."
So, +9 for the Expos then?
Rusty Staub is going to hunt down Bea Arthur and murder him.
And que Charlie Lea?
Quote from: Brownie on January 28, 2010, 02:19:44 PM
Rusty Staub is going to hunt down Bea Arthur and murder him.
And que Charlie Lea?
Rusty Staub came up with the Colt .45s.
Quote from: Fork on January 28, 2010, 02:31:48 PM
Quote from: Brownie on January 28, 2010, 02:19:44 PM
Rusty Staub is going to hunt down Bea Arthur and murder him.
And que Charlie Lea?
Rusty Staub came up with the Colt .45s.
And went down on many younger than 45 as well?
Quote from: MAD on January 28, 2010, 02:41:55 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 28, 2010, 02:31:48 PM
Quote from: Brownie on January 28, 2010, 02:19:44 PM
Rusty Staub is going to hunt down Bea Arthur and murder him.
And que Charlie Lea?
Rusty Staub came up with the Colt .45s.
And went down on many younger than 45 as well?
You're welcome.
If the Expos had any fans, those people might have gone to games occasionally where they'd have developed fond memories of The Hawk. But alas...
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 28, 2010, 05:38:19 PM
If the Expos had any fans, those people might have gone to games occasionally where they'd have developed fond memories of The Hawk. But alas...
They had fans, pre-1994.
Or
somebody was sitting in those 2.2 + million seats when Hawk was patrolling center.
Quote from: MAD on January 28, 2010, 05:41:24 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 28, 2010, 05:38:19 PM
If the Expos had any fans, those people might have gone to games occasionally where they'd have developed fond memories of The Hawk. But alas...
They had fans, pre-1994.
Or somebody was sitting in those 2.2 + million seats when Hawk was patrolling center.
How big was that place?
Quote from: Oleg on January 28, 2010, 06:08:05 PM
Quote from: MAD on January 28, 2010, 05:41:24 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 28, 2010, 05:38:19 PM
If the Expos had any fans, those people might have gone to games occasionally where they'd have developed fond memories of The Hawk. But alas...
They had fans, pre-1994.
Or somebody was sitting in those 2.2 + million seats when Hawk was patrolling center.
How big was that place?
It
was an Olympic Stadium.
I don't feel like quoting things, but this is an interesting read: http://wezen-ball.com/2010-articles/january/dawsons-blank-check.html
It's an interesting read, but I don't think this guy's history is particularly accurate. Dawson was unhappy with the $$. Unfortunately, the combination of collusion, the fact he was excessively open about wanting to play in Chicago, the and Dallas Green's knowledge that he had a farm system that would in short order turn out studs that would threaten to make the Cubs the team of the 90s gave Dawson no leverage.
Montreal offered him a pay cut, but it was more than twice what the Cubs paid in 1987. However, make no mistake about it: Dawson made it clear he wasn't going back to Montreal. In fact, he was nearly a White Sock in 1986. True story, the Sox, Mariners and Expos had a three-way deal worked out that would have included Dawson and David Henderson. The deal fell apart when the Red Sox offered more to the Mariners for Henderson.
Had this guy done some searching (and maybe later I'll provide the research), he would have found some Tribune articles during the entire offseason that featured Andre Dawson talking up Chicago and particularly the north side. He hit very well in the day. He was not going to thrive on artificial turf. He loved interacting with the fans in the right-field bleachers (racism wasn't introduced out there until Jacque Jones became a Cub). This is all true. Let me find the articles for you. But Hawk had no leverage. He had decided he was going to be a Cub and was willing to do so for less than market value.
Eric Byrnes walks into Jim Hendry's office with a blank check..
...and Hendry buys lunch with it?
As a lawyer representing working people I was appalled at what was tantamount to a worker paying his boss to work for him. As I recall, Dawson signed a form contract with the dollar amount left blank for the team to fill in.
Quote from: Slack-E on January 29, 2010, 01:19:02 PM
Eric Byrnes walks into Jim Hendry's office with a blank check..
...and somewhere in Arizona, a boner is popped.
I know it's a car commercial, but even then GM sucked at selling cars. But they did a great job recording the Hawk's love for Chicago. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGjO6l1neXY)
Quote from: Brownie on January 30, 2010, 11:24:18 AM
I know it's a car commercial, but even then GM sucked at selling cars. But they did a great job recording the Hawk's love for Chicago. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGjO6l1neXY)
That Chevy commercial convinced me, it's the kind of thing that makes me sit down and go "wow, I need to buy an Andre Dawson right now."
In case anyone wants to crash the Hawk HOF party...
Quote
What- Dawson Cocktail Reception
When- Saturday, July 24th
Time- 9:00pm to 11:00pm
Place- Hoffman Lane Bistro (www.hoffmanlanebistro.com)
Address- 2 Hoffman Lane, Cooperstown , NY 13326
Dress- Business Attire
Once again, this event is separate from the regular Hall of Fame Weekend festivities and it's a private event hosted by the Chicago Cubs.
Link. (http://i26.tinypic.com/24b92ki.jpg)
Quote from: PenPho on July 20, 2010, 02:40:31 PM
In case anyone wants to crash the Hawk HOF party...
Quote
What- Dawson Cocktail Reception
When- Saturday, July 24th
Time- 9:00pm to 11:00pm
Place- Hoffman Lane Bistro (www.hoffmanlanebistro.com)
Address- 2 Hoffman Lane, Cooperstown , NY 13326
Dress- Business Attire
Once again, this event is separate from the regular Hall of Fame Weekend festivities and it's a private event hosted by the Chicago Cubs.
Link. (http://i26.tinypic.com/24b92ki.jpg)
Natch. And what are the Expos doing for the Hawk? Nothing. They'll probably send Tim Wallach to the party to bash Dawson in both knees with a pick axe for old time's sake.
Lou Piniella is (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/joe_sheehan/07/20/lou.piniella/index.html?eref=sihp), according to Joe Sheehan.
Quote
Piniella has exemplified practical sabermetrics -- an understanding of the costs and benefits of the stolen base attempt -- and gotten no credit for doing so.
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 20, 2010, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: PenPho on July 20, 2010, 02:40:31 PM
In case anyone wants to crash the Hawk HOF party...
Quote
What- Dawson Cocktail Reception
When- Saturday, July 24th
Time- 9:00pm to 11:00pm
Place- Hoffman Lane Bistro (www.hoffmanlanebistro.com)
Address- 2 Hoffman Lane, Cooperstown , NY 13326
Dress- Business Attire
Once again, this event is separate from the regular Hall of Fame Weekend festivities and it's a private event hosted by the Chicago Cubs.
Link. (http://i26.tinypic.com/24b92ki.jpg)
Natch. And what are the Expos doing for the Hawk? Nothing. They'll probably send Tim Wallach to the party to bash Dawson in both knees with a pick axe for old time's sake.
They, uh, kind of don't exist anymore. But I'm sure some smelly French Canadian will drink a bottle of wine in commemoration.
Quote from: Canadouche on July 21, 2010, 02:22:16 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 20, 2010, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: PenPho on July 20, 2010, 02:40:31 PM
In case anyone wants to crash the Hawk HOF party...
Quote
What- Dawson Cocktail Reception
When- Saturday, July 24th
Time- 9:00pm to 11:00pm
Place- Hoffman Lane Bistro (www.hoffmanlanebistro.com)
Address- 2 Hoffman Lane, Cooperstown , NY 13326
Dress- Business Attire
Once again, this event is separate from the regular Hall of Fame Weekend festivities and it's a private event hosted by the Chicago Cubs.
Link. (http://i26.tinypic.com/24b92ki.jpg)
Natch. And what are the Expos doing for the Hawk? Nothing. They'll probably send Tim Wallach to the party to bash Dawson in both knees with a pick axe for old time's sake.
They, uh, kind of don't exist anymore. But I'm sure some smelly French Canadian will drink a bottle of wine set a car on fire in commemoration.
Habs.
Damn I love the Hawk. Got a little dusty in here during his speech. I don't care if it makes me sound like an old meatball - they just don't make classy bad dudes like him anymore.
Quote from: R-V on July 25, 2010, 04:04:21 PM
Damn I love the Hawk. Got a little dusty in here during his speech. I don't care if it makes me sound like an old meatball - they just don't make classy bad dudes like him anymore.
Intrepid reader: Dusty Baker
Dude never clogged the bases, always picked the right time to hustle and hit a lot better during those hot summer months. You know, because he's black, big-time.
B.J. Surhoff (http://deadspin.com/5725821/lets-marvel-at-the-perfect-absurdity-of-this-espn-guys-hof-ballot)
Quote from: Yeti on January 05, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
B.J. Surhoff (http://deadspin.com/5725821/lets-marvel-at-the-perfect-absurdity-of-this-espn-guys-hof-ballot)
Deadspin, eh?
Quote from: Yeti on January 05, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
B.J. Surhoff (http://deadspin.com/5725821/lets-marvel-at-the-perfect-absurdity-of-this-espn-guys-hof-ballot)
The guy's explained himself later on ESPN:
Quote"In 1976, I was just out of college and working my first job at the Port Chester (NY) Daily Item, covering a Babe Ruth 13-year-old tournament. The starting pitcher for the team from Rye was supposed to be their star, a big kid named Rich Surhoff, whose father Dick had played for the NY Knicks in the 1950s. Surhoff did, in fact, make it t the major leagues, spending nine games with the Philadelphia Phillies. But that day, the pitcher's younger brother was the one who caught my attention. He was only 12 years old and playing with the older kids, playing shortstop. On consecutive plays, I saw him range behind third base to the left field line and throw out a runner, then range the other way all the way behind first to catch a tricky pop that eluded a teammate.
After that game, I told BJ I thought that someday, I'd be watching him in the major leagues. For the next few years, I watched BJ become a local star at Rye HS, covering his games occasionally. And I remember telling him then that someday, I'd be voting for him for the Hall of Fame. Surhoff, went on to a career at UNC, became the No. 1 pick of the draft, played on our first Olympic baseball team. He had a very good (though not great) career for 18 years in MLB. And then there he was on my ballot (I've been a BBWAA member since 1985 and have had a Hall of Fame vote since '95). So I remembered that promise (though I honestly can't say if BJ does) and checked the box.
The reaction to that astounds me. I expected people who didn't know the story to question that vote. But the sheer level of nastiness, the anger, amazes me. I really didn't think BJ would get elected. I'd be surprised if he got another vote besides mine. And I'm fine with that. BJ was a very good player and a good guy (check out the work he's done for autism, sparked by his autistic son). He earned the fulfillment of that 35-year-old promise. And who, exactly did that hurt? If voting for BJ cost someone who deserved entry, I wouldn't have done it. And if the rules said that everybody who got one vote got in, then I definitely wouldn't have done it. But it didn't."
I find this funny...
Quote(check out the work he's done for autism, sparked by his autistic son)
... thanks to this...
QuoteThis is a ballot that eats crayons.
Quote from: Eli on January 05, 2011, 09:15:54 PM
Quote from: Yeti on January 05, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
B.J. Surhoff (http://deadspin.com/5725821/lets-marvel-at-the-perfect-absurdity-of-this-espn-guys-hof-ballot)
The guy's explained himself later on ESPN:
Quote"In 1976, I was just out of college and working my first job at the Port Chester (NY) Daily Item, covering a Babe Ruth 13-year-old tournament. The starting pitcher for the team from Rye was supposed to be their star, a big kid named Rich Surhoff, whose father Dick had played for the NY Knicks in the 1950s. Surhoff did, in fact, make it t the major leagues, spending nine games with the Philadelphia Phillies. But that day, the pitcher's younger brother was the one who caught my attention. He was only 12 years old and playing with the older kids, playing shortstop. On consecutive plays, I saw him range behind third base to the left field line and throw out a runner, then range the other way all the way behind first to catch a tricky pop that eluded a teammate.
After that game, I told BJ I thought that someday, I'd be watching him in the major leagues. For the next few years, I watched BJ become a local star at Rye HS, covering his games occasionally. And I remember telling him then that someday, I'd be voting for him for the Hall of Fame. Surhoff, went on to a career at UNC, became the No. 1 pick of the draft, played on our first Olympic baseball team. He had a very good (though not great) career for 18 years in MLB. And then there he was on my ballot (I've been a BBWAA member since 1985 and have had a Hall of Fame vote since '95). So I remembered that promise (though I honestly can't say if BJ does) and checked the box.
The reaction to that astounds me. I expected people who didn't know the story to question that vote. But the sheer level of nastiness, the anger, amazes me. I really didn't think BJ would get elected. I'd be surprised if he got another vote besides mine. And I'm fine with that. BJ was a very good player and a good guy (check out the work he's done for autism, sparked by his autistic son). He earned the fulfillment of that 35-year-old promise. And who, exactly did that hurt? If voting for BJ cost someone who deserved entry, I wouldn't have done it. And if the rules said that everybody who got one vote got in, then I definitely wouldn't have done it. But it didn't."
Well, shit. That's not what I wanted. Somebody call Joe Morgan so we can get a stupid and self-important justification to make fun of.
That's a pretty decent defense. Much less excusable is his belief that Robbie Alomar "just missed his ballot" this year, but would have "probably been on it next year." I guess he was betting on a big 2011 season from Robbie.
Quote from: fiveouts on January 05, 2011, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 05, 2011, 09:15:54 PM
Quote from: Yeti on January 05, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
B.J. Surhoff (http://deadspin.com/5725821/lets-marvel-at-the-perfect-absurdity-of-this-espn-guys-hof-ballot)
The guy's explained himself later on ESPN:
Quote"In 1976, I was just out of college and working my first job at the Port Chester (NY) Daily Item, covering a Babe Ruth 13-year-old tournament. The starting pitcher for the team from Rye was supposed to be their star, a big kid named Rich Surhoff, whose father Dick had played for the NY Knicks in the 1950s. Surhoff did, in fact, make it t the major leagues, spending nine games with the Philadelphia Phillies. But that day, the pitcher's younger brother was the one who caught my attention. He was only 12 years old and playing with the older kids, playing shortstop. On consecutive plays, I saw him range behind third base to the left field line and throw out a runner, then range the other way all the way behind first to catch a tricky pop that eluded a teammate.
After that game, I told BJ I thought that someday, I'd be watching him in the major leagues. For the next few years, I watched BJ become a local star at Rye HS, covering his games occasionally. And I remember telling him then that someday, I'd be voting for him for the Hall of Fame. Surhoff, went on to a career at UNC, became the No. 1 pick of the draft, played on our first Olympic baseball team. He had a very good (though not great) career for 18 years in MLB. And then there he was on my ballot (I've been a BBWAA member since 1985 and have had a Hall of Fame vote since '95). So I remembered that promise (though I honestly can't say if BJ does) and checked the box.
The reaction to that astounds me. I expected people who didn't know the story to question that vote. But the sheer level of nastiness, the anger, amazes me. I really didn't think BJ would get elected. I'd be surprised if he got another vote besides mine. And I'm fine with that. BJ was a very good player and a good guy (check out the work he's done for autism, sparked by his autistic son). He earned the fulfillment of that 35-year-old promise. And who, exactly did that hurt? If voting for BJ cost someone who deserved entry, I wouldn't have done it. And if the rules said that everybody who got one vote got in, then I definitely wouldn't have done it. But it didn't."
Well, shit. That's not what I wanted. Somebody call Joe Morgan so we can get a stupid and self-important justification to make fun of.
That's a pretty decent defense. Much less excusable is his belief that Robbie Alomar "just missed his ballot" this year, but would have "probably been on it next year." I guess he was betting on a big 2011 season from Robbie.
It's only a problem if the vote for BJ specifically knocked off somebody who could've used the vote to get elected. And even then, who the fuck cares? Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles? Or maybe Doug Dascenzo? Fuck 'em. The real travesty is that they couldn't get their shit together enough to vote for Santo.
Eh, I can't care much. But how come other museums don't vote on their exhibits this way?
You can bet I never would have voted for those man-eating lions at the Field. I mean sure, they're very good natural history, but great natural history?
I don't think so.
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: fiveouts on January 05, 2011, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 05, 2011, 09:15:54 PM
Quote from: Yeti on January 05, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
B.J. Surhoff (http://deadspin.com/5725821/lets-marvel-at-the-perfect-absurdity-of-this-espn-guys-hof-ballot)
The guy's explained himself later on ESPN:
Quote"In 1976, I was just out of college and working my first job at the Port Chester (NY) Daily Item, covering a Babe Ruth 13-year-old tournament. The starting pitcher for the team from Rye was supposed to be their star, a big kid named Rich Surhoff, whose father Dick had played for the NY Knicks in the 1950s. Surhoff did, in fact, make it t the major leagues, spending nine games with the Philadelphia Phillies. But that day, the pitcher's younger brother was the one who caught my attention. He was only 12 years old and playing with the older kids, playing shortstop. On consecutive plays, I saw him range behind third base to the left field line and throw out a runner, then range the other way all the way behind first to catch a tricky pop that eluded a teammate.
After that game, I told BJ I thought that someday, I'd be watching him in the major leagues. For the next few years, I watched BJ become a local star at Rye HS, covering his games occasionally. And I remember telling him then that someday, I'd be voting for him for the Hall of Fame. Surhoff, went on to a career at UNC, became the No. 1 pick of the draft, played on our first Olympic baseball team. He had a very good (though not great) career for 18 years in MLB. And then there he was on my ballot (I've been a BBWAA member since 1985 and have had a Hall of Fame vote since '95). So I remembered that promise (though I honestly can't say if BJ does) and checked the box.
The reaction to that astounds me. I expected people who didn't know the story to question that vote. But the sheer level of nastiness, the anger, amazes me. I really didn't think BJ would get elected. I'd be surprised if he got another vote besides mine. And I'm fine with that. BJ was a very good player and a good guy (check out the work he's done for autism, sparked by his autistic son). He earned the fulfillment of that 35-year-old promise. And who, exactly did that hurt? If voting for BJ cost someone who deserved entry, I wouldn't have done it. And if the rules said that everybody who got one vote got in, then I definitely wouldn't have done it. But it didn't."
Well, shit. That's not what I wanted. Somebody call Joe Morgan so we can get a stupid and self-important justification to make fun of.
That's a pretty decent defense. Much less excusable is his belief that Robbie Alomar "just missed his ballot" this year, but would have "probably been on it next year." I guess he was betting on a big 2011 season from Robbie.
It's only a problem if the vote for BJ specifically knocked off somebody who could've used the vote to get elected. And even then, who the fuck cares? Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles? Or maybe Doug Dascenzo? Fuck 'em. The real travesty is that they couldn't get their shit together enough to vote for Santo.
Probably because they are too busy playing grabass in the headlines with Little Leaguers who stole their heart 35 years ago...
Quote from: fiveouts on January 05, 2011, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 05, 2011, 09:15:54 PM
Quote from: Yeti on January 05, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
B.J. Surhoff (http://deadspin.com/5725821/lets-marvel-at-the-perfect-absurdity-of-this-espn-guys-hof-ballot)
The guy's explained himself later on ESPN:
Quote"In 1976, I was just out of college and working my first job at the Port Chester (NY) Daily Item, covering a Babe Ruth 13-year-old tournament. The starting pitcher for the team from Rye was supposed to be their star, a big kid named Rich Surhoff, whose father Dick had played for the NY Knicks in the 1950s. Surhoff did, in fact, make it t the major leagues, spending nine games with the Philadelphia Phillies. But that day, the pitcher's younger brother was the one who caught my attention. He was only 12 years old and playing with the older kids, playing shortstop. On consecutive plays, I saw him range behind third base to the left field line and throw out a runner, then range the other way all the way behind first to catch a tricky pop that eluded a teammate.
After that game, I told BJ I thought that someday, I'd be watching him in the major leagues. For the next few years, I watched BJ become a local star at Rye HS, covering his games occasionally. And I remember telling him then that someday, I'd be voting for him for the Hall of Fame. Surhoff, went on to a career at UNC, became the No. 1 pick of the draft, played on our first Olympic baseball team. He had a very good (though not great) career for 18 years in MLB. And then there he was on my ballot (I've been a BBWAA member since 1985 and have had a Hall of Fame vote since '95). So I remembered that promise (though I honestly can't say if BJ does) and checked the box.
The reaction to that astounds me. I expected people who didn't know the story to question that vote. But the sheer level of nastiness, the anger, amazes me. I really didn't think BJ would get elected. I'd be surprised if he got another vote besides mine. And I'm fine with that. BJ was a very good player and a good guy (check out the work he's done for autism, sparked by his autistic son). He earned the fulfillment of that 35-year-old promise. And who, exactly did that hurt? If voting for BJ cost someone who deserved entry, I wouldn't have done it. And if the rules said that everybody who got one vote got in, then I definitely wouldn't have done it. But it didn't."
Well, shit. That's not what I wanted. Somebody call Joe Morgan so we can get a stupid and self-important justification to make fun of.
That's a pretty decent defense. Much less excusable is his belief that Robbie Alomar "just missed his ballot" this year, but would have "probably been on it next year." I guess he was betting on a big 2011 season from Robbie.
He completely ignored all the good work Robbie Alomar did with Aids.
I'm waiting for him to justify his vote for Tino Martinez next.
Quote from: BH on January 06, 2011, 07:50:32 AM
Quote from: fiveouts on January 05, 2011, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 05, 2011, 09:15:54 PM
Quote from: Yeti on January 05, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
B.J. Surhoff (http://deadspin.com/5725821/lets-marvel-at-the-perfect-absurdity-of-this-espn-guys-hof-ballot)
The guy's explained himself later on ESPN:
Quote"In 1976, I was just out of college and working my first job at the Port Chester (NY) Daily Item, covering a Babe Ruth 13-year-old tournament. The starting pitcher for the team from Rye was supposed to be their star, a big kid named Rich Surhoff, whose father Dick had played for the NY Knicks in the 1950s. Surhoff did, in fact, make it t the major leagues, spending nine games with the Philadelphia Phillies. But that day, the pitcher's younger brother was the one who caught my attention. He was only 12 years old and playing with the older kids, playing shortstop. On consecutive plays, I saw him range behind third base to the left field line and throw out a runner, then range the other way all the way behind first to catch a tricky pop that eluded a teammate.
After that game, I told BJ I thought that someday, I'd be watching him in the major leagues. For the next few years, I watched BJ become a local star at Rye HS, covering his games occasionally. And I remember telling him then that someday, I'd be voting for him for the Hall of Fame. Surhoff, went on to a career at UNC, became the No. 1 pick of the draft, played on our first Olympic baseball team. He had a very good (though not great) career for 18 years in MLB. And then there he was on my ballot (I've been a BBWAA member since 1985 and have had a Hall of Fame vote since '95). So I remembered that promise (though I honestly can't say if BJ does) and checked the box.
The reaction to that astounds me. I expected people who didn't know the story to question that vote. But the sheer level of nastiness, the anger, amazes me. I really didn't think BJ would get elected. I'd be surprised if he got another vote besides mine. And I'm fine with that. BJ was a very good player and a good guy (check out the work he's done for autism, sparked by his autistic son). He earned the fulfillment of that 35-year-old promise. And who, exactly did that hurt? If voting for BJ cost someone who deserved entry, I wouldn't have done it. And if the rules said that everybody who got one vote got in, then I definitely wouldn't have done it. But it didn't."
Well, shit. That's not what I wanted. Somebody call Joe Morgan so we can get a stupid and self-important justification to make fun of.
That's a pretty decent defense. Much less excusable is his belief that Robbie Alomar "just missed his ballot" this year, but would have "probably been on it next year." I guess he was betting on a big 2011 season from Robbie.
He completely ignored all the good work Robbie Alomar did with Aids.
(||)
Quote from: CT III on January 05, 2011, 10:29:55 PM
Eh, I can't care much. But how come other museums don't vote on their exhibits this way?
You can bet I never would have voted for those man-eating lions at the Field. I mean sure, they're very good natural history, but great natural history?
I don't think so.
The Darkness was a sure-fire Hall of Famer, but the Ghost was just riding coattails.
Quote from: PenPho on January 06, 2011, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: CT III on January 05, 2011, 10:29:55 PM
Eh, I can't care much. But how come other museums don't vote on their exhibits this way?
You can bet I never would have voted for those man-eating lions at the Field. I mean sure, they're very good natural history, but great natural history?
I don't think so.
The Darkness was a sure-fire Hall of Famer, but the Ghost was just riding coattails.
After Permission to Land, it was all downhill
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 11, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
The very idea that I would do that is absurd.
Quote from: Bort on January 11, 2011, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 11, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
The very idea that I would do that is absurd.
It's a good thing you guys won't get to vote then. Because I would totally do that.
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
Quote from: Bort on January 11, 2011, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 11, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
The very idea that I would do that is absurd.
It's a good thing you guys won't get to vote then. Because I would totally do that.
The very idea that anyone who has ever posted here more than once would actually get to vote for the HoF is absurd.
Quote from: morpheus on January 11, 2011, 09:04:16 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
Quote from: Bort on January 11, 2011, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 11, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
The very idea that I would do that is absurd.
It's a good thing you guys won't get to vote then. Because I would totally do that.
The very idea that anyone who has ever posted here more than once would actually get to vote for the HoF is absurd.
Poor Len.
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: morpheus on January 11, 2011, 09:04:16 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
Quote from: Bort on January 11, 2011, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 11, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
The very idea that I would do that is absurd.
It's a good thing you guys won't get to vote then. Because I would totally do that.
The very idea that anyone who has ever posted here more than once would actually get to vote for the HoF is absurd.
Poor Len.
True. Len not getting a vote is further proof that the system is rigged. I'm going to protest this unfair system by voting for Jose Macias.
Quote from: Canadouche on January 11, 2011, 03:19:18 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: morpheus on January 11, 2011, 09:04:16 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
Quote from: Bort on January 11, 2011, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 11, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
The very idea that I would do that is absurd.
It's a good thing you guys won't get to vote then. Because I would totally do that.
The very idea that anyone who has ever posted here more than once would actually get to vote for the HoF is absurd.
Poor Len.
True. Len not getting a vote is further proof that the system is rigged. I'm going to protest this unfair system by voting for Jose Macias.
Intrepid Reader: TDubbsThey don't allow pedophiles who teach children and then have sex with those same children they are supposed to teach to vote for the Hall of Fame.
Quote from: PenPho on January 11, 2011, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 11, 2011, 03:19:18 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: morpheus on January 11, 2011, 09:04:16 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
Quote from: Bort on January 11, 2011, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 11, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
The very idea that I would do that is absurd.
It's a good thing you guys won't get to vote then. Because I would totally do that.
The very idea that anyone who has ever posted here more than once would actually get to vote for the HoF is absurd.
Poor Len.
True. Len not getting a vote is further proof that the system is rigged. I'm going to protest this unfair system by voting for Jose Macias.
Intrepid Reader: TDubbs
They don't allow pedophiles who teach children and then have sex with those same children they are supposed to teach to vote for the Hall of Fame.
TDubbs would never have said that. There are too many words in that sentence.
Mickey Mantel is a Hall of Famer...
(http://i.imgur.com/sAsMc.jpg)
... but he's no cock-sucker.
Verified by Snopes. (http://www.snopes.com/risque/celebrities/mantle.asp)
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on February 03, 2011, 12:15:45 PM
Mickey Mantel is a Hall of Famer...
(http://i.imgur.com/sAsMc.jpg)
... but he's no cock-sucker.
Verified by Snopes. (http://www.snopes.com/risque/celebrities/mantle.asp)
That is amazing. Absolutely amazing.
I'm reading the Mantle biogrpahy right now. This fits right in.
Quote from: PANK! on February 03, 2011, 12:38:38 PM
I'm reading the Mantle biogrpahy right now. This fits right in.
My dad gave me the same book. I won't be reading it until baseball season starts. Maybe we can sit down and discuss it over a pile of blow sometime.
Quote from: Internet Apex on February 03, 2011, 02:28:10 PM
Quote from: PANK! on February 03, 2011, 12:38:38 PM
I'm reading the Mantle biogrpahy right now. This fits right in.
My dad gave me the same book. I won't be reading it until baseball season starts. Maybe we can sit down and discuss it over a pile of blow sometime.
Great idea.
Quote from: Canadouche on January 11, 2011, 03:19:18 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: morpheus on January 11, 2011, 09:04:16 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on January 11, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
Quote from: Bort on January 11, 2011, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: Kermit IV on January 11, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on January 05, 2011, 10:10:43 PM
Let's be honest - if anybody here was given the right to vote for the HoF, could you resist penciling in Neifi's name, just for shits and giggles?
Yep. Pretty easily. In fact, I probably wouldn't even think of doing it, much less thinking it was funny.
The very idea that I would do that is absurd.
It's a good thing you guys won't get to vote then. Because I would totally do that.
The very idea that anyone who has ever posted here more than once would actually get to vote for the HoF is absurd.
Poor Len.
True. Len not getting a vote is further proof that the system is rigged. I'm going to protest this unfair system by voting for Jose Macias.
And yet you scoff at a hypothetical 20-year extrapolation of Kosuke Fukudome? Absurd!
Quote from: Gilgamesh on February 03, 2011, 12:30:27 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on February 03, 2011, 12:15:45 PM
Mickey Mantel is a Hall of Famer...
(http://i.imgur.com/sAsMc.jpg)
... but he's no cock-sucker.
Verified by Snopes. (http://www.snopes.com/risque/celebrities/mantle.asp)
That is amazing. Absolutely amazing.
*The All-American Boy completely makes it.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on February 03, 2011, 12:15:45 PM
Mickey Mantel is a Hall of Famer...
(http://i.imgur.com/sAsMc.jpg)
... but he's no cock-sucker.
Verified by Snopes. (http://www.snopes.com/risque/celebrities/mantle.asp)
Quote from: Internet Apex on February 03, 2011, 02:28:10 PM
Quote from: PANK! on February 03, 2011, 12:38:38 PM
I'm reading the Mantle biogrpahy right now. This fits right in.
My dad gave me the same book. I won't be reading it until baseball season starts. Maybe we can sit down and discuss it over a pile of blow sometime.
Ha.
This appears on page 300.
Quote from: PANK! on February 04, 2011, 06:23:58 AM
Ha.
This appears on page 300.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on February 03, 2011, 12:15:45 PM
Verified by Snopes. (http://www.snopes.com/risque/celebrities/mantle.asp)
QuoteThe response attributed to the Mick is indeed a real one, as detailed by Mantle biographer Jane Leavy:
QuoteIn 1973, when the Yankees celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of the House That Ruth Built, the public relations department sent a questionnaire to former players.
[Yankees publicity director] Marty Appel, who crafted the questionnaire, and received and edited the infamous reply (substituting [Mantle's ninth-inning home run that won Game 3 of the 1964 World Series for the Yankees]), gave the original document to Barry Halper, the minority team owner and memorabilia maven who would later sell his vast collection for more than $30 million. The X-rated writing sample circulated through the baseball underground for years before emerging into the LED glare of the World Wide Web. Appel was appalled. Mantle was just trying to shock the Yankees' straitlaced PR chief, Bob Fishel, he said.
Absent Mantle's impeccable 1930s Palmer Method penmanship, the asterisks, and the appellation, it's just another example of locker room crude. The self-mocking touches turn it into something altogether different and far more interesting — a send-up of Yankee grandiosity and a self-knowing appraisal. Who knew he had a sense of irony?
"That may be the best thing I've ever heard about him," said Robert Pinsky, the bard of Red Sox partisans, and the former poet laureate of the United States. "He's saying, 'I am not going to be your all-American boy.'"
...
Leavy, Jane. The Last Boy: Mickey Mantle and the End of America's Childhood.
New York: Harper, 2010. ISBN 0-060-88352-9 (pp. 300-301).
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on February 04, 2011, 07:52:36 AM
Quote from: PANK! on February 04, 2011, 06:23:58 AM
Ha.
This appears on page 300.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on February 03, 2011, 12:15:45 PM
Verified by Snopes. (http://www.snopes.com/risque/celebrities/mantle.asp)
QuoteThe response attributed to the Mick is indeed a real one, as detailed by Mantle biographer Jane Leavy:
QuoteIn 1973, when the Yankees celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of the House That Ruth Built, the public relations department sent a questionnaire to former players.
[Yankees publicity director] Marty Appel, who crafted the questionnaire, and received and edited the infamous reply (substituting [Mantle's ninth-inning home run that won Game 3 of the 1964 World Series for the Yankees]), gave the original document to Barry Halper, the minority team owner and memorabilia maven who would later sell his vast collection for more than $30 million. The X-rated writing sample circulated through the baseball underground for years before emerging into the LED glare of the World Wide Web. Appel was appalled. Mantle was just trying to shock the Yankees' straitlaced PR chief, Bob Fishel, he said.
Absent Mantle's impeccable 1930s Palmer Method penmanship, the asterisks, and the appellation, it's just another example of locker room crude. The self-mocking touches turn it into something altogether different and far more interesting — a send-up of Yankee grandiosity and a self-knowing appraisal. Who knew he had a sense of irony?
"That may be the best thing I've ever heard about him," said Robert Pinsky, the bard of Red Sox partisans, and the former poet laureate of the United States. "He's saying, 'I am not going to be your all-American boy.'"
...
Leavy, Jane. The Last Boy: Mickey Mantle and the End of America's Childhood.
New York: Harper, 2010. ISBN 0-060-88352-9 (pp. 300-301).
There's no way I'm reading a book some chick wrote. And how 'bout the group of queers in the Yankees bullpen back then? I guess ya gotta keep your star happy, but, still...
Richard Dent.
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/bears-richard-dent-pro-football-hall-of-fame.html
Reggie Miller
This is as hilarious as it is wrong.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-Basketball-Hall-of-Fame-turns-its-back-on-Re?urn=nba-323404
Quote from: Internet Apex on February 18, 2011, 03:43:21 PM
Reggie Miller
This is as hilarious as it is wrong.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-Basketball-Hall-of-Fame-turns-its-back-on-Re?urn=nba-323404
It is a bit of both. I hated Reggie - but come on. The man is a legend.
I love Reggie Miller. Mostly because I don't like black people.
Edit; Paws
I blame Spike Lee.
Quote from: Fork on February 19, 2011, 08:23:09 AM
I blame Spike Lee.
If it weren't for Spike Lee, Reggie Miller would be Dale Ellis.
Ron Santo is.
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/18943/happy-sad-ron-santo-finally-gets-hall-call
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
Wait, are you making an argument that it would have been better or worse for him to go into the HOF then?
I'm with Wheezer/Fork here. They're swine, at best. It's sad that I was actually angered by what should be good news. The Veteran's Committee couldn't handle Ron joining their little club while alive, but now they put him in when he can't enjoy it and . I suspect his wife or son will give the induction speech and I hope, whoever does it, they don't hold back to mention publicly what a low blow from the Veteran's Committee this was.
So what if he was removed from the radio gig. Sure we would have all missed out on some famous Ron moments, but he would have had HOF next to his name. I'm guessing he would have traded that for the radio gig and might have just made as much money signing autographs. I suspect witnessing a Cubs WS title would have been the only thing higher on his list.
I hope someone substantially better at writing than myself (Andy - I'm talking to you....) can properly depict what a shame this situation is.
Best suggestion I heard all day is that Jeff Santo accepts the plaque, walks up to the microphone, says, "Fuck you!" then leaves.
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
Didn't we tell you to cut the anal secks talk out of your daily posts?
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 05, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
(http://resize.over-blog.com/380x285-cz5t.jpg?~aHR0cDovL2ltZy53aWtpby1leHBlcnRzLmNvbS8wLzAyLzc2Lzg3LzIwMTEtMDcvVi1zdHJpbmctc3R5bGVkLXRob25nLXN3aW13ZWFyLUdydXBwZS1qdW5nZXItRnJhdWUuanBn)
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 05, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 05, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
(http://resize.over-blog.com/380x285-cz5t.jpg?~aHR0cDovL2ltZy53aWtpby1leHBlcnRzLmNvbS8wLzAyLzc2Lzg3LzIwMTEtMDcvVi1zdHJpbmctc3R5bGVkLXRob25nLXN3aW13ZWFyLUdydXBwZS1qdW5nZXItRnJhdWUuanBn)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Them02.jpg/220px-Them02.jpg)
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 05, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 05, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
(http://resize.over-blog.com/380x285-cz5t.jpg?~aHR0cDovL2ltZy53aWtpby1leHBlcnRzLmNvbS8wLzAyLzc2Lzg3LzIwMTEtMDcvVi1zdHJpbmctc3R5bGVkLXRob25nLXN3aW13ZWFyLUdydXBwZS1qdW5nZXItRnJhdWUuanBn)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Them02.jpg/220px-Them02.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/1r8z6u.jpg)
I really like that thong picture. Going to spend 5 to 7 minutes with it.
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 05, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 05, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
(http://resize.over-blog.com/380x285-cz5t.jpg?~aHR0cDovL2ltZy53aWtpby1leHBlcnRzLmNvbS8wLzAyLzc2Lzg3LzIwMTEtMDcvVi1zdHJpbmctc3R5bGVkLXRob25nLXN3aW13ZWFyLUdydXBwZS1qdW5nZXItRnJhdWUuanBn)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Them02.jpg/220px-Them02.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zMU7o.jpg)
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on December 05, 2011, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 05, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 05, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
(http://resize.over-blog.com/380x285-cz5t.jpg?~aHR0cDovL2ltZy53aWtpby1leHBlcnRzLmNvbS8wLzAyLzc2Lzg3LzIwMTEtMDcvVi1zdHJpbmctc3R5bGVkLXRob25nLXN3aW13ZWFyLUdydXBwZS1qdW5nZXItRnJhdWUuanBn)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Them02.jpg/220px-Them02.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zMU7o.jpg)
No.
Quote from: Slaky on December 05, 2011, 02:32:34 PM
I really like that thong picture. Going to spend 5 to 7 minutes with it.
My thoughts precisely.. although, due to a busy sched I am shortening it to 2 minutes
Quote from: Tollbooth Yeti on December 05, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: Slaky on December 05, 2011, 02:32:34 PM
I really like that thong picture. Going to spend 5 to 7 minutes with it.
My thoughts precisely.. although, due to my chronic premature ejaculation problem I am shortening it to 2 minutes.
Fixed.
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on December 05, 2011, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 05, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 05, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
(http://resize.over-blog.com/380x285-cz5t.jpg?~aHR0cDovL2ltZy53aWtpby1leHBlcnRzLmNvbS8wLzAyLzc2Lzg3LzIwMTEtMDcvVi1zdHJpbmctc3R5bGVkLXRob25nLXN3aW13ZWFyLUdydXBwZS1qdW5nZXItRnJhdWUuanBn)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Them02.jpg/220px-Them02.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zMU7o.jpg)
No.
No.
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 03:12:28 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on December 05, 2011, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 05, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 05, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
(http://resize.over-blog.com/380x285-cz5t.jpg?~aHR0cDovL2ltZy53aWtpby1leHBlcnRzLmNvbS8wLzAyLzc2Lzg3LzIwMTEtMDcvVi1zdHJpbmctc3R5bGVkLXRob25nLXN3aW13ZWFyLUdydXBwZS1qdW5nZXItRnJhdWUuanBn)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Them02.jpg/220px-Them02.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zMU7o.jpg)
No.
No.
No.
Quote from: PANK! on December 05, 2011, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 03:12:28 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on December 05, 2011, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 05, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 05, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Tonker on December 05, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on December 05, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: morpheus on December 05, 2011, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Bort on December 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on December 05, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 05, 2011, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Everyone on the Veterans Committee should be beaten to death with one of Santo's wooden legs.
Notsofast. Mike Royko in 1997 suggested it might not have been so bad Santo was excluded. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19970312&id=zoEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4K0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3046,2236518)
Suppose Ron got inducted back in 1997. Then what? Maybe he gets gently shitcanned from his radio gig, and he goes quietly into the night.
He explicitly stated that he did not want to be inducted posthumously. They're swine.
This.
That.
Those.
Thon.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/the_bonus/04/14/deadly.baseballs/dickie-thon.jpg)
(http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/files/2009/11/Thom-Brennaman-Fox-212x300.jpg)
(http://resize.over-blog.com/380x285-cz5t.jpg?~aHR0cDovL2ltZy53aWtpby1leHBlcnRzLmNvbS8wLzAyLzc2Lzg3LzIwMTEtMDcvVi1zdHJpbmctc3R5bGVkLXRob25nLXN3aW13ZWFyLUdydXBwZS1qdW5nZXItRnJhdWUuanBn)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Them02.jpg/220px-Them02.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zMU7o.jpg)
No.
No.
No.
Yes.... I mean, no
Goddamn it - someone find more photos from that thong convention.
Quote from: Slaky on December 05, 2011, 04:00:07 PM
Goddamn it - someone find more photos from that thong convention.
They're from the set of Sisqo's video for the thong song. So start there.
From Vet Rage to Thong Fancy in one day?
Quote from: Slaky on December 05, 2011, 04:00:07 PM
Goddamn it - someone find more photos from that thong convention.
Here you go, sir. (http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f171/miss-pool-2006-a-281/)
Someone voted for Jesse Orosco?
So, Ronny finally got in and it sounds as though everybody tried not to be bitter and twisted about it. (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120721&content_id=35305510&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)
I was interested to note that MLB also reports that Santo had had multiple leg amputations, although they didn't specify exactly how many.
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
I don't think they should keep people out of the Hall for using it anyway. That's like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500. I actually kind of believe Thomas because he seemed to suffer from some nagging, minor injuries late in his career. I bet if he really wanted to, he could have gotten himself on the field for the 2005 postseason. If he knew the risks and side effects and decided to sit out instead, then good for him. I don't think it makes him some sort of hero though.
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:57:25 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
I don't think they should keep people out of the Hall for using it anyway. That's like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500. I actually kind of believe Thomas because he seemed to suffer from some nagging, minor injuries late in his career. I bet if he really wanted to, he could have gotten himself on the field for the 2005 postseason. If he knew the risks and side effects and decided to sit out instead, then good for him. I don't think it makes him some sort of hero though.
Serious question, but why do you think he's a dick? I have to admit I always kind of liked the guy even though he played for the White Sox. He seems like a nice guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1valYG9IVI)
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.
It's almost like he became a professional 1B/DH and was paid millions of dollars to lift weights and get bigger so he could hit baseballs harder.
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 12:02:48 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:57:25 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
I don't think they should keep people out of the Hall for using it anyway. That's like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500. I actually kind of believe Thomas because he seemed to suffer from some nagging, minor injuries late in his career. I bet if he really wanted to, he could have gotten himself on the field for the 2005 postseason. If he knew the risks and side effects and decided to sit out instead, then good for him. I don't think it makes him some sort of hero though.
Serious question, but why do you think he's a dick? I have to admit I always kind of liked the guy even though he played for the White Sox. He seems like a nice guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1valYG9IVI)
He had the reputation of being surly and unapproachable. Perhaps that's only with the media. When they say that about players on my favorite teams I tend to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I'm willing to allow that because he didn't play for the Cubs, I spent little to no effort in finding anything to like about the guy. I really don't care much. He's a Hall of Famer without question. If he'd been juicing, his prime might have lasted longer, as was the case with the guys everybody wants to keep out of the Hall.
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.
What? Are you saying he started juicing when he was like 10 years old?
Quote from: CT III on November 27, 2013, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.
What? Are you saying he started juicing when he was like 10 years old?
The pipsqueak circa 1987...
(http://i.imgur.com/QwAFcai.jpg)
His teammates at Auburn probably called him "Slim".
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on November 27, 2013, 02:52:25 PM
Quote from: CT III on November 27, 2013, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.
What? Are you saying he started juicing when he was like 10 years old?
The pipsqueak circa 1987...
(http://i.imgur.com/QwAFcai.jpg)
His teammates at Auburn probably called him "Slim".
His dick at birth was bigger than Gary Coleman's entire adult body
Quote from: Slaky on November 30, 2013, 12:34:51 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on November 27, 2013, 02:52:25 PM
Quote from: CT III on November 27, 2013, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on November 27, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on November 27, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on November 27, 2013, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Fork on November 27, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: BH on November 27, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
Bump. This (http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall-of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over-to-d-1467003665) is pretty awesome.
This comment is great.
"Vote in anyone with even a whiff of PED, and Frank Thomas. I want to watch the uncomfortable acceptance speech lineup of Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, and then Thomas. "
Because nobody who played football at Auburn ever used PEDs. Nope. Nosiree.
Frank Thomas has always been preternaturally large and he had long complained in MLBPA meetings and in the press, I believe, about steroid use in baseball.
While doubt is fine for pretty much anyone who played during the era, I think there's enough convincing evidence against the thought that Frank Thomas dabbled with dope.
You do know that size is not the only thing PED users are looking to achieve, right? Where's your convincing evidence beyond his vehement denials? I mean, you can believe him if you want to. I don't really have any reason not to myself, other than I don't like him and think he's a dick. I admit that's not a good reason.
A presumption of innocence and a lack of evidence showing guilt? That's just me, though.
That only works in a court of law. This is a court of opinion. He looked like Gary Coleman before he started juicing.
What? Are you saying he started juicing when he was like 10 years old?
The pipsqueak circa 1987...
(http://i.imgur.com/QwAFcai.jpg)
His teammates at Auburn probably called him "Slim".
His dick at birth was bigger than Gary Coleman's entire adult body
After all those years of juicin' though, Emmanual Lewis would OWN "Big" Frank in a sword fight.
Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.
Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.
Quote from: Slaky on December 09, 2013, 10:50:03 AM
Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.
Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.
Self-righteousness is a helluva drug.
Quote from: Slaky on December 09, 2013, 10:50:03 AM
Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.
Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.
Don't give Joe Torre a free ride on this bus.
Quote from: Fork on December 09, 2013, 12:39:53 PM
Quote from: Slaky on December 09, 2013, 10:50:03 AM
Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.
Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.
Don't give Joe Torre a free ride on this bus.
You keep saying that and other than "Joe Torre won the most titles during the "Steroid Era" I'm wondering what the hell you're referring to.
Pettite and Clemens, yes, but Jeter, Bernie Williams and the Fruit Bat? On the teams from '96-'00 when they won 4 WS in 5 years (and Clemens was only o the last 2 of those), who are we talking about? They had bench guys like Strawberry and Fielder in '96, who I'm pretty sure were just ingesting blow and cheeseburgers, respectively...Paul O'Neill? Shane Spencer? Who?
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 05:55:45 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 09, 2013, 12:39:53 PM
Quote from: Slaky on December 09, 2013, 10:50:03 AM
Bobby Cox, wife beater and Tony LaRussa, steroid giver both in.
Meanwhile, Bonds and his ilk MUST BE KEPT OUT.
Don't give Joe Torre a free ride on this bus.
You keep saying that and other than "Joe Torre won the most titles during the "Steroid Era" I'm wondering what the hell you're referring to.
Pettite and Clemens, yes, but Jeter, Bernie Williams and the Fruit Bat? On the teams from '96-'00 when they won 4 WS in 5 years (and Clemens was only o the last 2 of those), who are we talking about? They had bench guys like Strawberry and Fielder in '96, who I'm pretty sure were just ingesting blow and cheeseburgers, respectively...Paul O'Neill? Shane Spencer? Who?
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Tino Martinez was juicing at the end of the nineties, there, but by and large, I agree - the Torre Yanks were hardly the fucking Bash Brothers.
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
And that's the end of the PED debate. Thanks, guys. It's been emotional.
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 09:19:12 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
And that's the end of the PED debate. Thanks, guys. It's been emotional.
Every team had guys on the stuff during this time, so it's not like these managers had some sort of advantage. They just had better players on PEDs. The whole morality, sanctity of the game crap is ridiculous. You could argue that greenies helped players more, and everyone took those for decades. Who cares.
Quote from: BH on December 10, 2013, 09:21:24 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 09:19:12 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
And that's the end of the PED debate. Thanks, guys. It's been emotional.
Every team had has guys on the stuff during this time, so it's not like these managers had some sort of advantage. They just had better players on PEDs. The whole morality, sanctity of the game crap is ridiculous. You could argue that greenies helped players more, and everyone took those for decades. Who cares.
The game has no sanctity. People who try to project that on it are really sad in the way that they delude themselves and try to impose their beliefs on others. Players took what was available to them before steroids were available. Greenies were a fine example. They kept non-whites out of the game until Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby so take that sanctity, shove it in your pie hole and choke on it.
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 09:26:51 AM
Quote from: BH on December 10, 2013, 09:21:24 AM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 09:19:12 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
And that's the end of the PED debate. Thanks, guys. It's been emotional.
Every team had has guys on the stuff during this time, so it's not like these managers had some sort of advantage. They just had better players on PEDs. The whole morality, sanctity of the game crap is ridiculous. You could argue that greenies helped players more, and everyone took those for decades. Who cares.
The game has no sanctity. People who try to project that on it are really sad in the way that they delude themselves and try to impose their beliefs on others. Players took what was available to them before steroids were available. Greenies were a fine example. They kept non-whites out of the game until Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby so take that sanctity, shove it in your pie hole and choke on it.
The BBHOF also has as members some people who even by their contemporary standards were unconscionable assholes, e.g. Ty Cobb.
I used to be of the belief that the Hall of Fame should keep the PEDers out, but I'm more convinced now that they should be allowed in with the caveat that their suspected PED use be conspicuously referenced on their plaques (or at least somewhere in very close proximity to their wing of the hall)
I think to do otherwise simply enables baseball to continue to sweep the whole issue under the rug, forget its past, and pretend it's no longer an issue. All history making people and events should have the complete stories told to the widest audience. To not do so only perpetuates this idea that history's sole value is to glorify the past rather than address everything.
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
Even without the PEDs too.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 10, 2013, 11:36:41 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
Even without the PEDs too.
I also believe he's one of the biggest cock nostrils ever to play sports (excluding the OJ Simpson types natch) and every time he gets fucked over trying to get into the Hall, I reserve the right to laugh and call him a cock nostril.
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
These four years are just unfathomable to me, PEDs or not.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/246quly.png)
Quote from: Eli on December 10, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
These four years are just unfathomable to me, PEDs or not.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/246quly.png)
Seriously, his pre-Barroid numbers (if you believe "Game of Shadows", everything prior to 1999) had him in the HOF anyway.
Bah. History has no place in a museum.
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
If you put 100 people in a room and ask them who are the best two or three players of all time (after Ruth), and asked them to put them in order, you'd get damn near 100 different answers. Part of the beauty of the game.
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 01:04:53 PM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
If you put 100 people in a room and ask them who are the best two or three players of all time (after Ruth), and asked them to put them in order, you'd get damn near 100 different answers. Part of the beauty of the game.
Right but there are many people who would exclude him from that conversation entirely and they're idiots.
Quote from: Eli on December 10, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
These four years are just unfathomable to me, PEDs or not.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/246quly.png)
Ridiculous numbers, and the values in the age column take it to another level.
Quote from: Eli on December 10, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
These four years are just unfathomable to me, PEDs or not.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/246quly.png)
Whenever I talk about the beauty of the on-base percentage stat with friends, I take note of the practical import of the stat. I've used Bonds' 2004 season as an example to explain the stat: by the time he stepped to the plate, he was more than 60% of the way toward being on first base already.
That is absolutely staggering.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 10, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Quote from: Eli on December 10, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
These four years are just unfathomable to me, PEDs or not.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/246quly.png)
Whenever I talk about the beauty of the on-base percentage stat with friends, I take note of the practical import of the stat. I've used Bonds' 2004 season as an example to explain the stat: by the time he stepped to the plate, he was more than 60% of the way toward being on first base already.
That is absolutely staggering.
Sixty percent of the time, he was on first base every time.
THIS TIME TO POST BROUGHT TO YOU BY ANCHORMAN 2, THE LITTLE-KNOWN UPCOMING MOTION PICTURE STARRING WILL FERRELL AS RON BURGUNDY
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 10, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Quote from: Eli on December 10, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
These four years are just unfathomable to me, PEDs or not.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/246quly.png)
Whenever I talk about the beauty of the on-base percentage stat with friends, I take note of the practical import of the stat. I've used Bonds' 2004 season as an example to explain the stat: by the time he stepped to the plate, he was more than 60% of the way toward being on first base already.
That is absolutely staggering.
I'm glad I don't need to rely on your explanations to understand baseball or other topics.
Quote from: R-V on December 10, 2013, 02:46:26 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 10, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Quote from: Eli on December 10, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
These four years are just unfathomable to me, PEDs or not.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/246quly.png)
Whenever I talk about the beauty of the on-base percentage stat with friends, I take note of the practical import of the stat. I've used Bonds' 2004 season as an example to explain the stat: by the time he stepped to the plate, he was more than 60% of the way toward being on first base already.
That is absolutely staggering.
I'm glad I don't need to rely on your explanations to understand baseball or other topics.
Here's the thing, RV: borry bonsd hit real ball good
I don't have a problem with letting the PED guys into the hall, but the meatball in me doesn't want to see them get to enjoy their enshrinement day or make a speech. Can't they let them in without the pomp and circumstance?
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
I don't have a problem with letting the PED guys into the hall, but the meatball in me doesn't want to see them get to enjoy their enshrinement day or make a speech. Can't they let them in without the pomp and circumstance?
Can't you just not watch?
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
I don't have a problem with letting the PED guys into the hall, but the meatball in me doesn't want to see them get to enjoy their enshrinement day or make a speech. Can't they let them in without the pomp and circumstance?
Can't you just not watch?
I don't watch every single year.
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
I don't have a problem with letting the PED guys into the hall, but the meatball in me doesn't want to see them get to enjoy their enshrinement day or make a speech. Can't they let them in without the pomp and circumstance?
Intrepid Reader: Ron SantoThere are ways...
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
I don't have a problem with letting the PED guys into the hall, but the meatball in me doesn't want to see them get to enjoy their enshrinement day or make a speech. Can't they let them in without the pomp and circumstance?
Can't you just not watch?
I don't watch every single year.
I watched the replays of the
Barry Rozner Ryne Sandberg speech.
I'll probably watch the replays of the Maddux speech wishing he would give a big "fuck you" to Larry Himes.
Quote from: flannj on December 10, 2013, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
I don't have a problem with letting the PED guys into the hall, but the meatball in me doesn't want to see them get to enjoy their enshrinement day or make a speech. Can't they let them in without the pomp and circumstance?
Can't you just not watch?
I don't watch every single year.
I watched the replays of the Barry Rozner Ryne Sandberg speech.
I'll probably watch the replays of the Maddux speech wishing he would give a big "fuck you" to Larry Himes.
That's not the time or the place unless you're a total cockbag like Michael Jordan.
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 03:59:15 PM
Quote from: flannj on December 10, 2013, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
I don't have a problem with letting the PED guys into the hall, but the meatball in me doesn't want to see them get to enjoy their enshrinement day or make a speech. Can't they let them in without the pomp and circumstance?
Can't you just not watch?
I don't watch every single year.
I watched the replays of the Barry Rozner Ryne Sandberg speech.
I'll probably watch the replays of the Maddux speech wishing he would give a big "fuck you" to Larry Himes.
That's not the time or the place unless you're a total cockbag like Michael Jordan.
I know it's not the right venue but I still wish for it.
I'm kind of a dick that way.
Quote from: Internet Apex on December 10, 2013, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
I don't have a problem with letting the PED guys into the hall, but the meatball in me doesn't want to see them get to enjoy their enshrinement day or make a speech. Can't they let them in without the pomp and circumstance?
Can't you just not watch?
I never watch it, but I don't want anyone else to watch either.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on December 10, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Quote from: Eli on December 10, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 10, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Slaky on December 10, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 10, 2013, 06:47:47 AM
Paul O'Neill did get hurt a lot and seemed to have a lot of simmering anger, but he also didn't change 3 shirt sizes in a 4 year period.
don't forget that roids or HGH aren't just used to build ludicrous amounts of muscle. Was Andy Pettitte some kind of Ned Flanders when he removed the pinstriped top? Doubt it.
These guys, hell probably every team had guys, who would use something to get healthy quickly and stay off the DL. You'd never know it.
Which is part of the reason why I don't give a fuck about PEDs.
I actually think the juicers should be let in, for all I give a fuck about the HOF.
Fact is, without Sosa and McGwire, baseball wouldn't have had as quick a rebound following the work stoppage in 94.
Not to mention, it's a little hard to say that because these guys cheated they shouldn't be allowed into the same hallowed hall as Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry.
No one will ever convince me that Barry Bonds isn't one of the best 2-3 players of all time.
These four years are just unfathomable to me, PEDs or not.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/246quly.png)
Whenever I talk about the beauty of the on-base percentage stat with friends, I take note of the practical import of the stat. I've used Bonds' 2004 season as an example to explain the stat: by the time he stepped to the plate, he was more than 60% of the way toward being on first base already.
That is absolutely staggering.
If he was 60% of the way to first base, he would have been tagged out more often.
Pete Rose (not a Hall of Famer) with a pretty sick burn (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/12/pete_rose_takes_a_shot_at_robi.html) on Robinson Cano.
Quote"Jay Z got him a big raise, but he got him an extra 30-day vacation -- and it's called October," Rose said.
Of course, when the Mariners win three World Series before Epstink does, the joke will be on Rose. And on us. :(
Quote from: Sterling Archer on December 13, 2013, 03:11:33 PM
Pete Rose (not a Hall of Famer) with a pretty sick burn (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/12/pete_rose_takes_a_shot_at_robi.html) on Robinson Cano.
Quote"Jay Z got him a big raise, but he got him an extra 30-day vacation -- and it's called October," Rose said.
Of course, when the Mariners win three World Series before Epstink does, the joke will be on Rose. And on us. :(
Think Rose knows the odds of that happening?
Quote from: Fork on December 13, 2013, 03:13:17 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on December 13, 2013, 03:11:33 PM
Pete Rose (not a Hall of Famer) with a pretty sick burn (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/12/pete_rose_takes_a_shot_at_robi.html) on Robinson Cano.
Quote"Jay Z got him a big raise, but he got him an extra 30-day vacation -- and it's called October," Rose said.
Of course, when the Mariners win three World Series before Epstink does, the joke will be on Rose. And on us. :(
Think Rose knows the odds of that happening?
Looks like I have to go to the I Admit It thread...
Quote from: Sterling Archer on December 13, 2013, 03:11:33 PM
Pete Rose (not a Hall of Famer) with a pretty sick burn (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/12/pete_rose_takes_a_shot_at_robi.html) on Robinson Cano.
Quote"Jay Z got him a big raise, but he got him an extra 30-day vacation -- and it's called October," Rose said.
Of course, when the Mariners win three World Series before Epstink does, the joke will be on Rose. And on us. :(
Postseasons Pete Rose played in: 8 of 24 seasons (active from 1963-1986... note that one of his postseason appearances was a split-season strike series)
Postseasons Kerry Wood played in: 5 of 13 seasons (active from 1998-2012; on DL in 1999)
Posteseasons A-Rod played in as a Mariner: 3 of 6 seasons (1994-2000; 1994 not counting as a real season)
Postseasons A-Rod played in as a Yankee: 8 out of 10 seasons (2004-2013)
OK, maybe Pete has a point. Forget this post.
Greg Maddux will certainly be a Hall of Famer, but it won't be unanimous, because PEDs or something.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
Greg Maddux will certainly be a Hall of Famer, but it won't be unanimous, because PEDs or something.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb
Did he know that Jack Morris faced guys like Willie Wilson, Lonnie Smith, Alan Wiggins, and others with more cocaine up their nose than could be found in Colombia.
Quote from: Brownie on January 07, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
Greg Maddux will certainly be a Hall of Famer, but it won't be unanimous, because PEDs or something.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb
Did he know that Jack Morris faced guys like Willie Wilson, Lonnie Smith, Alan Wiggins, and others with more cocaine up their nose than could be found in Colombia.
I don't know, but I was surprised to learn that there was no PED use in MLB prior to 1995.
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 11:05:49 AM
Quote from: Brownie on January 07, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
Greg Maddux will certainly be a Hall of Famer, but it won't be unanimous, because PEDs or something.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb
Did he know that Jack Morris faced guys like Willie Wilson, Lonnie Smith, Alan Wiggins, and others with more cocaine up their nose than could be found in Colombia.
I don't know, but I was surprised to learn that there was no PED use in MLB prior to 1995.
Well, at least we have a cut-off now.
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2014, 11:29:02 AM
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 11:05:49 AM
Quote from: Brownie on January 07, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
Greg Maddux will certainly be a Hall of Famer, but it won't be unanimous, because PEDs or something.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb
Did he know that Jack Morris faced guys like Willie Wilson, Lonnie Smith, Alan Wiggins, and others with more cocaine up their nose than could be found in Colombia.
I don't know, but I was surprised to learn that there was no PED use in MLB prior to 1995.
Well, at least we have a cut-off now.
I always thought the Steroid Era begain in 1988, Canseco's 40/40 year.
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2014, 11:59:48 AM
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2014, 11:29:02 AM
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 11:05:49 AM
Quote from: Brownie on January 07, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
Greg Maddux will certainly be a Hall of Famer, but it won't be unanimous, because PEDs or something.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb
Did he know that Jack Morris faced guys like Willie Wilson, Lonnie Smith, Alan Wiggins, and others with more cocaine up their nose than could be found in Colombia.
I don't know, but I was surprised to learn that there was no PED use in MLB prior to 1995.
Well, at least we have a cut-off now.
I always thought the Steroid Era begain in 1988, Canseco's 40/40 year.
The NFL began testing for steroids in 1987. Do we define STEROID ERA!!! as the point that guys started using it or the point that it became widespread?
Either way, you're just raking leaves on a windy day.
Quote from: InternetApex on January 07, 2014, 12:27:48 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 07, 2014, 11:59:48 AM
Quote from: Yeti on January 07, 2014, 11:29:02 AM
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 11:05:49 AM
Quote from: Brownie on January 07, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
Greg Maddux will certainly be a Hall of Famer, but it won't be unanimous, because PEDs or something.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb
Did he know that Jack Morris faced guys like Willie Wilson, Lonnie Smith, Alan Wiggins, and others with more cocaine up their nose than could be found in Colombia.
I don't know, but I was surprised to learn that there was no PED use in MLB prior to 1995.
Well, at least we have a cut-off now.
I always thought the Steroid Era begain in 1988, Canseco's 40/40 year.
The NFL began testing for steroids in 1987. Do we define STEROID ERA!!! as the point that guys started using it or the point that it became widespread?
Either way, you're just raking leaves on a windy day.
Not voting for guys based on their ethical purity seems a little silly, considering how many guys are in there because they doctored baseballs.
You're making the mistake of looking at Greg Maddux's HOF candidacy in rational, reasonable terms. There are many, many arseholes out there who don't give a flying fuck about your rationality and reason, and some of them are HOF voters. Yes, Maddux should be unanimous. Get over it. When it all comes down to it, we're talking about a multi-millionaire getting a tiny bit of extra recognition, on top of the almost inconceivable amount of recognition he's already received. Who gives a shit?
Quote from: Tonker on January 07, 2014, 01:13:36 PM
You're making the mistake of looking at Greg Maddux's HOF candidacy in rational, reasonable terms. There are many, many arseholes out there who don't give a flying fuck about your rationality and reason, and some of them are HOF voters. Yes, Maddux should be unanimous. Get over it. When it all comes down to it, we're talking about a multi-millionaire getting a tiny bit of extra recognition, on top of the almost inconceivable amount of recognition he's already received. Who gives a shit?
Not to mention, it's a lot easier for a sportswriter to get noticed by being one of the handful who don't vote for a guy who should be a slam dunk than to be one of the hundreds who votes for him.
Quote from: Tonker on January 07, 2014, 01:13:36 PM
You're making the mistake of looking at Greg Maddux's HOF candidacy in rational, reasonable terms. There are many, many arseholes out there who don't give a flying fuck about your rationality and reason, and some of them are HOF voters. Yes, Maddux should be unanimous. Get over it. When it all comes down to it, we're talking about a multi-millionaire getting a tiny bit of extra recognition, on top of the almost inconceivable amount of recognition he's already received. Who gives a shit?
Well what if I DON'T get over it? What are you gonna do then, limey?
Quote from: CT III on January 07, 2014, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: Tonker on January 07, 2014, 01:13:36 PM
You're making the mistake of looking at Greg Maddux's HOF candidacy in rational, reasonable terms. There are many, many arseholes out there who don't give a flying fuck about your rationality and reason, and some of them are HOF voters. Yes, Maddux should be unanimous. Get over it. When it all comes down to it, we're talking about a multi-millionaire getting a tiny bit of extra recognition, on top of the almost inconceivable amount of recognition he's already received. Who gives a shit?
Well what if I DON'T get over it? What are you gonna do then, limey?
I'm going to fucking MAKE you. Yeah, you heard me.
97.2%
14 Idiots.
Quote from: flannj on January 08, 2014, 01:33:14 PM
97.2%
14 Idiots.
Anyone who didn't vote for him should not only lose their vote, but be summarily executed.
I'll never get tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
http://americanmissive.com/2008/12/09/so-long-mad-dog-thank-you-for-the-memories/
http://www.answers.com/topic/greg-maddux
http://deadspin.com/as-greg-maddux-stories-go-this-is-a-hard-on-to-top-1497594282
Quote from: BH on January 09, 2014, 08:49:40 AM
I'll never get tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
http://americanmissive.com/2008/12/09/so-long-mad-dog-thank-you-for-the-memories/
http://www.answers.com/topic/greg-maddux
http://deadspin.com/as-greg-maddux-stories-go-this-is-a-hard-on-to-top-1497594282
as-greg-maddux-stories-go-
this-is-a-hard-on-to-top-1497594282
His pitching
was pretty boner-inducing.
I'm tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
Quote from: Sterling Archer on January 09, 2014, 01:34:59 PM
Quote from: BH on January 09, 2014, 08:49:40 AM
I'll never get tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
http://americanmissive.com/2008/12/09/so-long-mad-dog-thank-you-for-the-memories/
http://www.answers.com/topic/greg-maddux
http://deadspin.com/as-greg-maddux-stories-go-this-is-a-hard-on-to-top-1497594282
as-greg-maddux-stories-go-this-is-a-hard-on-to-top-1497594282
His pitching was pretty boner-inducing.
Greggie evidently agreed.
Quote from: Bort on January 09, 2014, 07:57:01 AM
Quote from: flannj on January 08, 2014, 01:33:14 PM
97.2%
14 Idiots.
Anyone who didn't vote for him should not only lose their vote, but be summarily executed.
Those 14 idiots wouldn't have voted for Christy Fucking Mathewson, let alone Greg Maddux.
Quote from: InternetApex on January 09, 2014, 01:52:27 PM
I'm tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
Did you hear Larry Himes on the Score yesterday? He said he probably should have asked the Trib bigwigs for a little more cash to sign Maddux. Gee... you think so, Larrry?
Quote from: Tony on January 09, 2014, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 09, 2014, 01:52:27 PM
I'm tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
Did you hear Larry Himes on the Score yesterday? He said he probably should have asked the Trib bigwigs for a little more cash to sign Maddux. Gee... you think so, Larrry?
I didn't hear him. Fuck that douchecannon in his entire face.
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Quote from: Tony on January 09, 2014, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 09, 2014, 01:52:27 PM
I'm tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
Did you hear Larry Himes on the Score yesterday? He said he probably should have asked the Trib bigwigs for a little more cash to sign Maddux. Gee... you think so, Larrry?
What difference would it have made? He was patting himself on the back for getting 3 pitchers for the price of one at the time.
Quote from: Fork on January 09, 2014, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: Tony on January 09, 2014, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 09, 2014, 01:52:27 PM
I'm tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
Did you hear Larry Himes on the Score yesterday? He said he probably should have asked the Trib bigwigs for a little more cash to sign Maddux. Gee... you think so, Larrry?
What difference would it have made? He was patting himself on the back for getting 3 pitchers for the price of one at the time.
That's a +2.
Quote from: InternetApex on January 09, 2014, 01:52:27 PM
I'm tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
Okay. How about this? (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/kanye-west-sings-about-michael-jordan-and-the-bulls-in-concert-20131220)
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on January 09, 2014, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 09, 2014, 01:52:27 PM
I'm tired of reading about Greg Maddux.
Okay. How about this? (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/kanye-west-sings-about-michael-jordan-and-the-bulls-in-concert-20131220)
The fucking worst.
Quote from: ChuckD on January 09, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Apart from the bit where he was talking about voting for Larry Walker or Mike Mussina, that was a very well thought-out and interesting article.
Quote from: Tonker on January 10, 2014, 02:53:35 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 09, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Apart from the bit where he was talking about voting for Larry Walker or Mike Mussina, that was a very well thought-out and interesting article.
Walker's not a terrible pick. He's 85th all-time in WAR and won 8 Gold Gloves. He led the league in batting three times and OPS twice. Was he juicing AND playing his home games in Colorado? Probably. But it's not like he was some big, slow, DH. If I were a GM in the same era, how would I not rather have Walker than Frank Thomas?
Injuries did plague Walker. I think he's underrated though. If he played in a major market people would have appreciated how great he was. Playing rightfield in Colorado is no joke and he was the dick at it.
Quote from: InternetApex on January 10, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: Tonker on January 10, 2014, 02:53:35 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 09, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Apart from the bit where he was talking about voting for Larry Walker or Mike Mussina, that was a very well thought-out and interesting article.
Walker's not a terrible pick. He's 85th all-time in WAR and won 8 Gold Gloves. He led the league in batting three times and OPS twice. Was he juicing AND playing his home games in Colorado? Probably. But it's not like he was some big, slow, DH. If I were a GM in the same era, how would I not rather have Walker than Frank Thomas?
Injuries did plague Walker. I think he's underrated though. If he played in a major market people would have appreciated how great he was. Playing rightfield in Colorado is no joke and he was the dick at it.
Larry Walker was damn good. I wouldn't get upset if he never made the hall of fame but that's an actual baseball discussion. Not the "he did drugs or was mean to me" discussion which I don't give a fuck about.
Quote from: Slaky on January 10, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 10, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: Tonker on January 10, 2014, 02:53:35 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 09, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Apart from the bit where he was talking about voting for Larry Walker or Mike Mussina, that was a very well thought-out and interesting article.
Walker's not a terrible pick. He's 85th all-time in WAR and won 8 Gold Gloves. He led the league in batting three times and OPS twice. Was he juicing AND playing his home games in Colorado? Probably. But it's not like he was some big, slow, DH. If I were a GM in the same era, how would I not rather have Walker than Frank Thomas?
Injuries did plague Walker. I think he's underrated though. If he played in a major market people would have appreciated how great he was. Playing rightfield in Colorado is no joke and he was the dick at it.
Larry Walker was damn good. I wouldn't get upset if he never made the hall of fame but that's an actual baseball discussion. Not the "he did drugs or was mean to me" discussion which I don't give a fuck about.
I wouldn't hate on anyone for voting (or not voting) for Walker or Mussina, but can we just take a quick minute to collectively fuck Jeff Kent in his buttchute?
Quote from: ChuckD on January 10, 2014, 03:26:19 PM
Quote from: Slaky on January 10, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 10, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: Tonker on January 10, 2014, 02:53:35 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 09, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Apart from the bit where he was talking about voting for Larry Walker or Mike Mussina, that was a very well thought-out and interesting article.
Walker's not a terrible pick. He's 85th all-time in WAR and won 8 Gold Gloves. He led the league in batting three times and OPS twice. Was he juicing AND playing his home games in Colorado? Probably. But it's not like he was some big, slow, DH. If I were a GM in the same era, how would I not rather have Walker than Frank Thomas?
Injuries did plague Walker. I think he's underrated though. If he played in a major market people would have appreciated how great he was. Playing rightfield in Colorado is no joke and he was the dick at it.
Larry Walker was damn good. I wouldn't get upset if he never made the hall of fame but that's an actual baseball discussion. Not the "he did drugs or was mean to me" discussion which I don't give a fuck about.
I wouldn't hate on anyone for voting (or not voting) for Walker or Mussina, but can we just take a quick minute to collectively fuck Jeff Kent in his buttchute?
No need to wait for me, go ahead and knock yourself out.
Quote from: BH on January 10, 2014, 03:35:05 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 10, 2014, 03:26:19 PM
Quote from: Slaky on January 10, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 10, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: Tonker on January 10, 2014, 02:53:35 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 09, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Apart from the bit where he was talking about voting for Larry Walker or Mike Mussina, that was a very well thought-out and interesting article.
Walker's not a terrible pick. He's 85th all-time in WAR and won 8 Gold Gloves. He led the league in batting three times and OPS twice. Was he juicing AND playing his home games in Colorado? Probably. But it's not like he was some big, slow, DH. If I were a GM in the same era, how would I not rather have Walker than Frank Thomas?
Injuries did plague Walker. I think he's underrated though. If he played in a major market people would have appreciated how great he was. Playing rightfield in Colorado is no joke and he was the dick at it.
Larry Walker was damn good. I wouldn't get upset if he never made the hall of fame but that's an actual baseball discussion. Not the "he did drugs or was mean to me" discussion which I don't give a fuck about.
I wouldn't hate on anyone for voting (or not voting) for Walker or Mussina, but can we just take a quick minute to collectively fuck Jeff Kent in his buttchute?
No need to wait for me, go ahead and knock yourself out.
I always hated Jeff Kent as a player and a person, until the day that he got into it physically with Barry Bonds in the dugout during a game. I can't say that should qualify him for the Hall of Fame, but on the other hand...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/games02/06/25-giants-padres.htm
Quote from: CBStew on January 10, 2014, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: BH on January 10, 2014, 03:35:05 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 10, 2014, 03:26:19 PM
Quote from: Slaky on January 10, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 10, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: Tonker on January 10, 2014, 02:53:35 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 09, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Apart from the bit where he was talking about voting for Larry Walker or Mike Mussina, that was a very well thought-out and interesting article.
Walker's not a terrible pick. He's 85th all-time in WAR and won 8 Gold Gloves. He led the league in batting three times and OPS twice. Was he juicing AND playing his home games in Colorado? Probably. But it's not like he was some big, slow, DH. If I were a GM in the same era, how would I not rather have Walker than Frank Thomas?
Injuries did plague Walker. I think he's underrated though. If he played in a major market people would have appreciated how great he was. Playing rightfield in Colorado is no joke and he was the dick at it.
Larry Walker was damn good. I wouldn't get upset if he never made the hall of fame but that's an actual baseball discussion. Not the "he did drugs or was mean to me" discussion which I don't give a fuck about.
I wouldn't hate on anyone for voting (or not voting) for Walker or Mussina, but can we just take a quick minute to collectively fuck Jeff Kent in his buttchute?
No need to wait for me, go ahead and knock yourself out.
I always hated Jeff Kent as a player and a person, until the day that he got into it physically with Barry Bonds in the dugout during a game. I can't say that should qualify him for the Hall of Fame, but on the other hand...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/games02/06/25-giants-padres.htm
Counterpoint: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/los-angeles-dod.html
Quote from: ChuckD on January 10, 2014, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: CBStew on January 10, 2014, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: BH on January 10, 2014, 03:35:05 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 10, 2014, 03:26:19 PM
Quote from: Slaky on January 10, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 10, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: Tonker on January 10, 2014, 02:53:35 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on January 09, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
I thought this guy's take was interesting. http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/giants/baggarly-explains-how-he-almost-left-maddux-hof-ballot
Because of the refusal of the sanctimonious guys to support any "PED Era" players, there's a logjam forming where there are >10 deserving candidates but non-shithead voters can only cast their support for 10. That's only going to get worse in the next few years. I guess I can kind of see the "pissing in the wind" line of reasoning behind supporting less popular (but still deserving) players in lieu of the shoe-ins.
Apart from the bit where he was talking about voting for Larry Walker or Mike Mussina, that was a very well thought-out and interesting article.
Walker's not a terrible pick. He's 85th all-time in WAR and won 8 Gold Gloves. He led the league in batting three times and OPS twice. Was he juicing AND playing his home games in Colorado? Probably. But it's not like he was some big, slow, DH. If I were a GM in the same era, how would I not rather have Walker than Frank Thomas?
Injuries did plague Walker. I think he's underrated though. If he played in a major market people would have appreciated how great he was. Playing rightfield in Colorado is no joke and he was the dick at it.
Larry Walker was damn good. I wouldn't get upset if he never made the hall of fame but that's an actual baseball discussion. Not the "he did drugs or was mean to me" discussion which I don't give a fuck about.
I wouldn't hate on anyone for voting (or not voting) for Walker or Mussina, but can we just take a quick minute to collectively fuck Jeff Kent in his buttchute?
No need to wait for me, go ahead and knock yourself out.
I always hated Jeff Kent as a player and a person, until the day that he got into it physically with Barry Bonds in the dugout during a game. I can't say that should qualify him for the Hall of Fame, but on the other hand...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/games02/06/25-giants-padres.htm
Counterpoint: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/los-angeles-dod.html
His only political contribution was to make a statement against gay marriage? I bet he and Barry saw eye to eye on that one.
Is Kent a "suspect"?
Like Slaky, I don't really care if playerd were juicing. Although Kent did take Sandberg's HR title, even if it was legit the guy was an absolute butcher at the what is arguably the 3rd least essential position on the diamond. So if he did hit his homeruns "naturally (whatever that might mean) he still fucking sucks. The Fred McGriff of second basemen.
Thank you, Chuck D. for rekindling my Kent Hatred. I think I had forgotten all about that asshole.
Quote from: PANK! on January 11, 2014, 08:46:48 AM
Although Kent did take Sandberg's HR title, even if it was legit the guy was an absolute butcher at the what is arguably the 3rd least essential position on the diamond. So if he did hit his homeruns "naturally (whatever that might mean) he still fucking sucks. The Fred McGriff of second basemen.
I tried to follow this train of thought and now I'm stranded in a potato field on the outskirts of Glengormley.
Quote from: Eli on January 11, 2014, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: PANK! on January 11, 2014, 08:46:48 AM
Although Kent did take Sandberg's HR title, even if it was legit the guy was an absolute butcher at the what is arguably the 3rd least essential position on the diamond. So if he did hit his homeruns "naturally (whatever that might mean) he still fucking sucks. The Fred McGriff of second basemen.
I tried to follow this train of thought and now I'm stranded in a potato field on the outskirts of Glengormley.
Jeff Kent's a cockbag who could barely field second base.
Quote from: PANK! on January 11, 2014, 01:25:50 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 11, 2014, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: PANK! on January 11, 2014, 08:46:48 AM
Although Kent did take Sandberg's HR title, even if it was legit the guy was an absolute butcher at the what is arguably the 3rd least essential position on the diamond. So if he did hit his homeruns "naturally (whatever that might mean) he still fucking sucks. The Fred McGriff of second basemen.
I tried to follow this train of thought and now I'm stranded in a potato field on the outskirts of Glengormley.
Jeff Kent's a cockbag who could barely field second base.
There we go. Now was that so hard?
Quote from: Tonker on January 11, 2014, 01:26:46 PM
Quote from: PANK! on January 11, 2014, 01:25:50 PM
Quote from: Eli on January 11, 2014, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: PANK! on January 11, 2014, 08:46:48 AM
Although Kent did take Sandberg's HR title, even if it was legit the guy was an absolute butcher at the what is arguably the 3rd least essential position on the diamond. So if he did hit his homeruns "naturally (whatever that might mean) he still fucking sucks. The Fred McGriff of second basemen.
I tried to follow this train of thought and now I'm stranded in a potato field on the outskirts of Glengormley.
Jeff Kent's a cockbag who could barely field second base.
There we go. Now was that so hard?
(||)
Maddux's HOF plaque won't have a logo.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-maddux-hall-of-fame-plaque-20140123,0,1468170.story
Quote from: InternetApex on January 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM
Maddux's HOF plaque won't have a logo.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-maddux-hall-of-fame-plaque-20140123,0,1468170.story
I thought players didn't choose any more, after the Dave Winfield debacle.
Quote from: Fork on January 23, 2014, 02:28:14 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM
Maddux's HOF plaque won't have a logo.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-maddux-hall-of-fame-plaque-20140123,0,1468170.story
I thought players didn't choose any more, after the Dave Winfield debacle.
Surprisingly, the article linked above contains information relevant to this very issue.
QuoteThe Hall of Fame and Museum "works with each inductee by suggesting an appropriate logo option, or no logo at all," said Hall president Jeff Idelson in a statement.
Hall spokesman Brad Horn said the Hall makes the decisions "in conjunction" with the inductee, meaning they suggested no logo and Maddux agreed.
Quote from: Fork on January 23, 2014, 02:28:14 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM
Maddux's HOF plaque won't have a logo.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-maddux-hall-of-fame-plaque-20140123,0,1468170.story
I thought players didn't choose any more, after the Dave Winfield debacle.
I thought it was the Wade Boggs debacle.
Quote from: PenFoe on January 23, 2014, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: Fork on January 23, 2014, 02:28:14 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on January 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM
Maddux's HOF plaque won't have a logo.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-maddux-hall-of-fame-plaque-20140123,0,1468170.story
I thought players didn't choose any more, after the Dave Winfield debacle.
I thought it was the Wade Boggs debacle.
You're right. Winfield got away with it, although Steinbrenner cancelled his number retirement ceremony.
The latest HOF ballot list is out. (http://bbwaa.com/)
Bagwell, Piazza and Griffey Jr. will be your class of '16. No need to discuss.
Quote from: Tonker on November 10, 2015, 02:06:22 AM
The latest HOF ballot list is out. (http://bbwaa.com/)
Bagwell, Piazza and Griffey Jr. will be your class of '16. No need to discuss.
Bagwell and Piazza were never formally outed for using PEDs, but come the fuck on. Griffey, had exploding hammies and the whole lot but word is he was too lazy to work out and probably wouldn't have benefitted much if he did take anything illegal.
I'm for all three getting in but that's the discussion for all 90/00s sluggers.
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 09:40:46 AM
Quote from: Tonker on November 10, 2015, 02:06:22 AM
The latest HOF ballot list is out. (http://bbwaa.com/)
Bagwell, Piazza and Griffey Jr. will be your class of '16. No need to discuss.
Bagwell and Piazza were never formally outed for using PEDs, but come the fuck on. Griffey, had exploding hammies and the whole lot but word is he was too lazy to work out and probably wouldn't have benefitted much if he did take anything illegal.
I'm for all three getting in but that's the discussion for all 90/00s sluggers.
I think at this point, MLB and BBHOF should just acknowledge the Steroid Era was a thing, and the BBWAA should honor guys accordingly. Whatever vigilance the writers feel they have over the integrity of the game didn't stop them from putting Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry in.
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
So your hamstrings don't assplode?
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 09:45:08 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 09:40:46 AM
Quote from: Tonker on November 10, 2015, 02:06:22 AM
The latest HOF ballot list is out. (http://bbwaa.com/)
Bagwell, Piazza and Griffey Jr. will be your class of '16. No need to discuss.
Bagwell and Piazza were never formally outed for using PEDs, but come the fuck on. Griffey, had exploding hammies and the whole lot but word is he was too lazy to work out and probably wouldn't have benefitted much if he did take anything illegal.
I'm for all three getting in but that's the discussion for all 90/00s sluggers.
I think at this point, MLB and BBHOF should just acknowledge the Steroid Era was a thing, and the BBWAA should honor guys accordingly. Whatever vigilance the writers feel they have over the integrity of the game didn't stop them from putting Whitey Ford, Don Sutton or Gaylord Perry in.
Only the BBWA can make PED users sympathetic characters. Fuck the BBWA. Not putting in Bonds and Clemens is just dumb.
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 09:53:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
So your hamstrings don't assplode?
I'm glad we can make a series of debilitating injuries (that could have happened to anybody who had been playing balls out, downright elite center field at the major league level for well over a decade before they started) into a moral failing. Cool talk. It's not just routine breakdowns that happen to most non-chemically enhanced world class athletes when they are past their prime, it's laziness? Fuck that.
Ken Griffey Jr. was, is, and always will be the fucking best and I'm not hearing this nonsense. Take it somewhere else of that's how younger about it.
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
Christ on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
Christ on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
You don't think it would diminish his greatness in people's eyes if rumor spread that he was lazy and it was his own damn fault he got hurt?
Apologize for insulting the coolest fucking ballplayer of my childhood and wear your hat backward in penance for the rest of the day.
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
Christ on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
You don't think it would diminish his greatness in people's eyes if rumor spread that he was lazy and it was his own damn fault he got hurt?
Apologize for insulting the coolest fucking ballplayer of my childhood and wear your hat backward in penance for the rest of the day.
No. Fuck the Reds. He was a lazy cunt.
He was beloved in Cincinnati. That contract he signed was going to save the city like LeBron is doing in Cleveland. But he didn't produce and there was a lot of anguish about it. Generally, they sympathize with him. The talk is like, oh, so he was juicing until he got his last big contract and then came home and coasted his way to retirement on the fucking DL. And the retort is, Ken didn't juice. Hell, he didn't even lift, bro.
Who in the fuck knows. It's a whisper campaign from 15 years ago. I'll reveal my sources and introduce you in person. You can take it up with them at the barbershop, or the car wash or wherever the accident will.
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Missed half a season due to syphilis. Died of throat cancer in his 40s. He wasn't a fan of a lot of things that could have helped him out later in life. Somehow it doesn't diminish his greatness to say so like it does Griffey. How racist.
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Missed half a season due to syphilis. Died of throat cancer in his 40s. He wasn't a fan of a lot of things that could have helped him out later in life. Somehow it doesn't diminish his greatness to say so like it does Griffey. How racist.
I guess people are racist against Harper too, or maybe they just have a bias against effortless talent.
Relevant but not really relevant: Ken Griffey, Jr. Presents Major League Baseball for SNES is the greatest baseball video game ever.
Jeez, you guys. I said there was no need to discuss.
Quote from: Tonker on November 10, 2015, 12:50:34 PM
Jeez, you guys. I said there was no need to discuss.
Your ability to read a room is shite, my frent.
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2015, 12:47:56 PM
Relevant but not really relevant: Ken Griffey, Jr. Presents Major League Baseball for SNES is the greatest baseball video game ever.
Relevant but not really relevant. I once got arrested on my way to pick up a 20-sack which I'd planned to bring back to a friend's apartment for a smoked-out
Ken Griffey tournament. I never made it. The tournament was cancelled while everybody sat around and worried what happened to my friend Sean and I. So I've never actually played that game but I had plans to. After that I was terrified of it and avoided any contact with it.
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Missed half a season due to syphilis. Died of throat cancer in his 40s. He wasn't a fan of a lot of things that could have helped him out later in life. Somehow it doesn't diminish his greatness to say so like it does Griffey. How racist.
I wonder if there's a modern day equivilent to Babe Ruth, in terms of talent and body type. He was a class to himself in the 20's and 30's, but athletes in general are bigger and stronger. If we could dump a Kyle Schwarber type (or Bryce Harper) in the 1920's, what kind of numbers would they produce? I often wonder what Babe Ruth could do with modern day pitchers, too. And if he'd taken care of himself, would he have hit 800 homers? Could he even mange 500 in today's game? I have so many pointless questions.
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 01:29:18 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Missed half a season due to syphilis. Died of throat cancer in his 40s. He wasn't a fan of a lot of things that could have helped him out later in life. Somehow it doesn't diminish his greatness to say so like it does Griffey. How racist.
I wonder if there's a modern day equivilent to Babe Ruth, in terms of talent and body type. He was a class to himself in the 20's and 30's, but athletes in general are bigger and stronger. If we could dump a Kyle Schwarber type (or Bryce Harper) in the 1920's, what kind of numbers would they produce? I often wonder what Babe Ruth could do with modern day pitchers, too. And if he'd taken care of himself, would he have hit 800 homers? Could he even mange 500 in today's game? I have so many pointless questions.
He could mange with the best of them.
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Missed half a season due to syphilis. Died of throat cancer in his 40s on August 16, 1948 (aged 53). He wasn't a fan of a lot of things that could have helped him out later in life. Somehow it doesn't diminish his greatness to say so like it does Griffey. How racist.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on November 10, 2015, 02:43:24 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Missed half a season due to syphilis. Died of throat cancer in his 40s on August 16, 1948 (aged 53). He wasn't a fan of a lot of things that could have helped him out later in life. Somehow it doesn't diminish his greatness to say so like it does Griffey. How racist.
Sorry. :0(
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on November 10, 2015, 02:43:24 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Missed half a season due to syphilis. Died of throat cancer in his 40s on August 16, 1948 (aged 53). He wasn't a fan of a lot of things that could have helped him out later in life. Somehow it doesn't diminish his greatness to say so like it does Griffey. How racist.
Shit, slackers like Lou Gehrig and Roberto Clemente didn't even make it to 40. Fucking plugs.
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on November 10, 2015, 02:43:24 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 10, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: InternetApex on November 10, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on November 10, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2015, 09:46:12 AM
I'd like to know what kind of numbers the fuckers saying Ken Griffey Jr. was "lazy" put up. If that's what that guy can do while being lazy why would you ever fucking work out?
I remember Buck Schowalter bitching about Jr. taking BP with his hat on backwards, and how it was disrespectful or some suck bullshit. Then Junior would go out and get all Willie Mays on his ass.
Junior was awesome to the point that I'm willing to let his time in Cincinnati and the South Side slide.
This. The "lazy" shit is the same garbage we hear about Bryce Harper. It's jealous assholes who hate that some 19 year old kid just walked into the place and was better than them at everything. He wasn't lazy, he just made things look effortless because he was one of the greatest fucking players ever. The idea that him having a bunch of muscle injuries in his mid-to-late 30s when most athletes start to breakdown was some kind of comeuppance for him not putting in the work when he was younger is garbage, and frankly I'm ashamed that Peck of all people, usually a staunch defender of unfairly slandered athletes, would spread this.
ChristPaul on a bike. I have no idea if what I heard is anywhere close to being true. I know someone from Cincinnati who is black and knows a bunch of other black people who knew him in high school. They said he wasn't the type to hit the gym a lot and that probably led to his body breaking down more often when he got older. It's just a story. To me it's plausible. And if it's true, it means he probably wasn't the type of muscled freak who liked to jam needles in his ass so he could home run binge. It doesn't diminish his greatness one bit.
FTFY.
I guess if BLACK people said he was lazy in the gym, it must be true...
From my fanecdotal knowledge of players like Mickey Mantle (who was legitimately lazy and did not rehab injuries the way he should have), if Griffey wasn't hitting the gym properly it would have taken him longer to recover from injuries. Did his rehab times extend beyond the expected times established by doctors? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking for a friend.
The greatest ballplayer of all time was Babe Ruth. Not exactly a fan of training, even by 1920s standards.
Missed half a season due to syphilis. Died of throat cancer in his 40s on August 16, 1948 (aged 53). He wasn't a fan of a lot of things that could have helped him out later in life. Somehow it doesn't diminish his greatness to say so like it does Griffey. How racist.
Sorry. :0(
August 16th is also the date Elvis died. Pretty morose date.
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2015, 12:47:56 PM
Relevant but not really relevant: Ken Griffey, Jr. Presents Major League Baseball for SNES is the greatest baseball video game ever.
YES. This. The trick of being able to control the ball after it was pitched was key. Also, the ridiculous music. Man, now I really want to find a copy.
Quote from: Eli on November 10, 2015, 07:09:39 PM
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2015, 12:47:56 PM
Relevant but not really relevant: Ken Griffey, Jr. Presents Major League Baseball for SNES is the greatest baseball video game ever.
YES. This. The trick of being able to control the ball after it was pitched was key. Also, the ridiculous music. Man, now I really want to find a copy.
With bonus points for the game being made right after Rick Wilkins' hilarious outlier season giving the Cubs a murderers row of Sandberg/Grace/Sosa/Wilkins 2-5 (I would also start Glenallen Hill in LF and hit him sixth for Derrick May).
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Have a little re2pect.
#3IGZ2018
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
Yeah, the Yankees sucked for most of the 1960s.
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
I agree, bad things happened in the past when standards were different and society devalued women and minorities even more than it does now, so we should always choose to honor people based on those antiquated standards. We should in no way change and evolve and hold people who should have known better to a higher standard than people who played in a segregated league.
Let alone the fact that, statistically, he's not a fucking hall of famer, why the fuck should I be actively happy that a sexist Mark Buerhle got into the hall of fame after decades of prolonged whining? Fuck him.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 14, 2017, 02:14:58 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
Yeah, the Yankees sucked for most of the 1960s.
One of my favorite Trivia Pursuit questions was "What did the Yankees do in 1966 for the first time in 54 years?"
A: Finish last.
In any event, if we keep this strictly to baseball accomplishments (which I really think we should because slippery slope and all that), Jack Morris' induction is kind of a farce that'll only serve to bolster the arguments of many lesser pitchers.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
It's hard for me to find the line between condemning people for their egregious behaviours and acknowledging that most people think and sometimes say stupid shit, especially older folks who grew up in a different environment than today's. I'd rather talk about his accomplishments on the field, or lack of them, than focus on his off-the-field sexism, mostly because I'm sure that he, and many of our athletic heroes, hold a number of outrageous beliefs that are better left unspoken and not acted upon. And if you are arguing that he doesn't belong in the Hall because he's a piece of shit towards women, then I think we need to scrutinize a lot of other guys who are in there who are, undoubtedly, pieces of shit towards women. Hence the odd response - I feel like it's easier to make a somewhat glib response than say all this shit.
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
It's hard for me to find the line between condemning people for their egregious behaviours and acknowledging that most people think and sometimes say stupid shit, especially older folks who grew up in a different environment than today's. I'd rather talk about his accomplishments on the field, or lack of them, than focus on his off-the-field sexism, mostly because I'm sure that he, and many of our athletic heroes, hold a number of outrageous beliefs that are better left unspoken and not acted upon. And if you are arguing that he doesn't belong in the Hall because he's a piece of shit towards women, then I think we need to scrutinize a lot of other guys who are in there who are, undoubtedly, pieces of shit towards women. Hence the odd response - I feel like it's easier to make a somewhat glib response than say all this shit.
#NotOwned #NotMad #ActuallyLaughing
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
It's hard for me to find the line between condemning people for their egregious behaviours and acknowledging that most people think and sometimes say stupid shit, especially older folks who grew up in a different environment than today's. I'd rather talk about his accomplishments on the field, or lack of them, than focus on his off-the-field sexism, mostly because I'm sure that he, and many of our athletic heroes, hold a number of outrageous beliefs that are better left unspoken and not acted upon. And if you are arguing that he doesn't belong in the Hall because he's a piece of shit towards women, then I think we need to scrutinize a lot of other guys who are in there who are, undoubtedly, pieces of shit towards women. Hence the odd response - I feel like it's easier to make a somewhat glib response than say all this shit.
Maybe it's easier, but it's kind of the point of a messageboard to flesh out ideas you think are worth articulating. You could have just written what you ended up writing here rather than be glib and have your point lost. I actually tend to agree that Morris' behavior toward a reporter is irrelevant to the discussion of his qualifications as one of the greatest players to have played the game, if only because I tend to operate under the assumption that a majority of pro athletes are insufferable, entitled assholes to begin with. Not all of them--I was pleased to see recent signee Brandon Morrow is apparently vocally anti-Trump (though I don't think that merits extra consideration for his Hall of Fame candidacy either)-- but definitely most of them, certainly at least 85% of the white ones. A player being a dick to a woman reporter? Throw it on the pile. What really should disqualify Morris is that his career is hardly better than Kevin Appier's and that's probably where the discussion rests.
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
It's hard for me to find the line between condemning people for their egregious behaviours and acknowledging that most people think and sometimes say stupid shit, especially older folks who grew up in a different environment than today's. I'd rather talk about his accomplishments on the field, or lack of them, than focus on his off-the-field sexism, mostly because I'm sure that he, and many of our athletic heroes, hold a number of outrageous beliefs that are better left unspoken and not acted upon. And if you are arguing that he doesn't belong in the Hall because he's a piece of shit towards women, then I think we need to scrutinize a lot of other guys who are in there who are, undoubtedly, pieces of shit towards women. Hence the odd response - I feel like it's easier to make a somewhat glib response than say all this shit.
This part is horse shit.
Okay I'm going to edit not because of my usual typing inaccuracies but because this stupid "our generation is more enlightened view" pisses me off.
I would put up my father and my father in law and many of that generation as some of the best and most considerate people I have ever been lucky enough to learn from.
Bad men have always existed and no more or less than today. Views upon behavior are included in that.
Both of the men that I mentioned above would have punched a guys lights out for inappropriate behavior towards a woman.
As would I.
So I guess once again "Fuck you Kurt".
Back to the original point, Jack Morris is tied with Bob Caruthers for 139th all-time among pitchers with a 43.8 WAR.
It took him 17 seasons to hit that number, while Steve Rogers had 45.3 in 13 years.
Jack Morris getting elected to the Hall of Fame is a monumental fuckup.
Quote from: flannj on December 15, 2017, 08:43:49 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
It's hard for me to find the line between condemning people for their egregious behaviours and acknowledging that most people think and sometimes say stupid shit, especially older folks who grew up in a different environment than today's. I'd rather talk about his accomplishments on the field, or lack of them, than focus on his off-the-field sexism, mostly because I'm sure that he, and many of our athletic heroes, hold a number of outrageous beliefs that are better left unspoken and not acted upon. And if you are arguing that he doesn't belong in the Hall because he's a piece of shit towards women, then I think we need to scrutinize a lot of other guys who are in there who are, undoubtedly, pieces of shit towards women. Hence the odd response - I feel like it's easier to make a somewhat glib response than say all this shit.
This part is horse shit.
Okay I'm going to edit not because of my usual typing inaccuracies but because this stupid "our generation is more enlightened view" pisses me off.
I would put up my father and my father in law and many of that generation as some of the best and most considerate people I have ever been lucky enough to learn from.
Bad men have always existed and no more or less than today. Views upon behavior are included in that.
Both of the men that I mentioned above would have punched a guys lights out for inappropriate behavior towards a woman.
As would I.
So I guess once again "Fuck you Kurt".
For starters, I said that
most people say stupid shit. I never said all people do, so I'm glad that, like a lot of us, you were exposed to strong male role models who knew how to act respectfully toward people, regardless of race or gender.
It would be foolish to assume that every individual alive in the mid 1800's held racist viewpoints towards minorities. If they all felt that way, then there would've been nobody to incite change or progress. It'd be foolish to assume that every German in the 1930's hated Jewish people. So I'm not blanket-stating that all men were sexist or all people were racist or whatever. But I think it's a mistake to hold what anybody said in 1990 to the standards of 2017. Bernie Sanders wrote some crazy shit about women in the 1970's, as well (which, when taken in context isn't quite as crazy, but it's still something from which he'd like to distance himself).
On the other hand, if you want to go after every sexually abusive baseball player, whether they stopped at sexist comments or did something even worse, I'm on board. But at this point, I don't think that's going to happen. I think it's only a matter of time, though, before we start hearing about executives who prevented women from moving up in the hierarchy of their organizations.
Quote from: Canadouche on December 15, 2017, 09:53:52 AM
Quote from: flannj on December 15, 2017, 08:43:49 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
It's hard for me to find the line between condemning people for their egregious behaviours and acknowledging that most people think and sometimes say stupid shit, especially older folks who grew up in a different environment than today's. I'd rather talk about his accomplishments on the field, or lack of them, than focus on his off-the-field sexism, mostly because I'm sure that he, and many of our athletic heroes, hold a number of outrageous beliefs that are better left unspoken and not acted upon. And if you are arguing that he doesn't belong in the Hall because he's a piece of shit towards women, then I think we need to scrutinize a lot of other guys who are in there who are, undoubtedly, pieces of shit towards women. Hence the odd response - I feel like it's easier to make a somewhat glib response than say all this shit.
This part is horse shit.
Okay I'm going to edit not because of my usual typing inaccuracies but because this stupid "our generation is more enlightened view" pisses me off.
I would put up my father and my father in law and many of that generation as some of the best and most considerate people I have ever been lucky enough to learn from.
Bad men have always existed and no more or less than today. Views upon behavior are included in that.
Both of the men that I mentioned above would have punched a guys lights out for inappropriate behavior towards a woman.
As would I.
So I guess once again "Fuck you Kurt".
For starters, I said that most people say stupid shit. I never said all people do, so I'm glad that, like a lot of us, you were exposed to strong male role models who knew how to act respectfully toward people, regardless of race or gender.
It would be foolish to assume that every individual alive in the mid 1800's held racist viewpoints towards minorities. If they all felt that way, then there would've been nobody to incite change or progress. It'd be foolish to assume that every German in the 1930's hated Jewish people. So I'm not blanket-stating that all men were sexist or all people were racist or whatever. But I think it's a mistake to hold what anybody said in 1990 to the standards of 2017. Bernie Sanders wrote some crazy shit about women in the 1970's, as well (which, when taken in context isn't quite as crazy, but it's still something from which he'd like to distance himself).
On the other hand, if you want to go after every sexually abusive baseball player, whether they stopped at sexist comments or did something even worse, I'm on board. But at this point, I don't think that's going to happen. I think it's only a matter of time, though, before we start hearing about executives who prevented women from moving up in the hierarchy of their organizations.
Most people? Don't give me that mealy mouth crap. You said "especially older folks"
You said "But I think it's a mistake to hold what anybody said in 1990 to the standards of 2017"
Seriously? Standards of 2017?
Fuck you and your displaced generational views.
Quote from: Canadouche on December 15, 2017, 09:53:52 AM
Quote from: flannj on December 15, 2017, 08:43:49 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
It's hard for me to find the line between condemning people for their egregious behaviours and acknowledging that most people think and sometimes say stupid shit, especially older folks who grew up in a different environment than today's. I'd rather talk about his accomplishments on the field, or lack of them, than focus on his off-the-field sexism, mostly because I'm sure that he, and many of our athletic heroes, hold a number of outrageous beliefs that are better left unspoken and not acted upon. And if you are arguing that he doesn't belong in the Hall because he's a piece of shit towards women, then I think we need to scrutinize a lot of other guys who are in there who are, undoubtedly, pieces of shit towards women. Hence the odd response - I feel like it's easier to make a somewhat glib response than say all this shit.
This part is horse shit.
Okay I'm going to edit not because of my usual typing inaccuracies but because this stupid "our generation is more enlightened view" pisses me off.
I would put up my father and my father in law and many of that generation as some of the best and most considerate people I have ever been lucky enough to learn from.
Bad men have always existed and no more or less than today. Views upon behavior are included in that.
Both of the men that I mentioned above would have punched a guys lights out for inappropriate behavior towards a woman.
As would I.
So I guess once again "Fuck you Kurt".
For starters, I said that most people say stupid shit. I never said all people do, so I'm glad that, like a lot of us, you were exposed to strong male role models who knew how to act respectfully toward people, regardless of race or gender.
It would be foolish to assume that every individual alive in the mid 1800's held racist viewpoints towards minorities. If they all felt that way, then there would've been nobody to incite change or progress. It'd be foolish to assume that every German in the 1930's hated Jewish people. So I'm not blanket-stating that all men were sexist or all people were racist or whatever. But I think it's a mistake to hold what anybody said in 1990 to the standards of 2017. Bernie Sanders wrote some crazy shit about women in the 1970's, as well (which, when taken in context isn't quite as crazy, but it's still something from which he'd like to distance himself).
On the other hand, if you want to go after every sexually abusive baseball player, whether they stopped at sexist comments or did something even worse, I'm on board. But at this point, I don't think that's going to happen. I think it's only a matter of time, though, before we start hearing about executives who prevented women from moving up in the hierarchy of their organizations.
Well, we've now come to the moment where Kurt grinds my gears.
The shit bolded above is a pet peeve. The idea being that those oppressed need to be rescued...like some sort of a damsel in distress bullshit. You do know that there were people like Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas and a whole bunch of the people who were actually oppressed who helped themselves, right? Who were not only integral to the movement that freed the slaves but were a voice for others who were oppressed otherwise. But, yeah, also John Brown, I guess.
I guess it's cool to give Lyndon Johnson credit for the Civil Rights Act but the people who made the difference were those who were actually oppressed.
So, yeah...inciting change? That's fucking done, throughout history, by those who want the change and that's those who were oppressed in the first place.
I guess I can understand where you're coming from...you're trying to make a very clumsy point. But knock it off.
The thing I will say about Morris is that it seems that those who get in via the veteran's committee or whatever they're calling themselves now rarely are seen as the standard by which to judge other candidates. So, I suppose it's nice for Morris to get in and I suppose we can think that he's not really deserving but he'll also probably not do anything to reset the criteria of admittance.
Having said that, the BBWA sucks too, so, whatever.
Quote from: Oleg on December 15, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
Well, we've now come to the moment where Kurt grinds my gears.
The shit bolded above is a pet peeve. The idea being that those oppressed need to be rescued...like some sort of a damsel in distress bullshit. You do know that there were people like Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas and a whole bunch of the people who were actually oppressed who helped themselves, right? Who were not only integral to the movement that freed the slaves but were a voice for others who were oppressed otherwise. But, yeah, also John Brown, I guess.
I guess it's cool to give Lyndon Johnson credit for the Civil Rights Act but the people who made the difference were those who were actually oppressed.
So, yeah...inciting change? That's fucking done, throughout history, by those who want the change and that's those who were oppressed in the first place.
I guess I can understand where you're coming from...you're trying to make a very clumsy point. But knock it off.
Hey, sorry I hit on one of your pet peeves. I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to justify it, except to say, the majority in power literally fought a war to free the slaves. Slaves didn't just stop slaving one day to get their freedom - sympathetic non-slaves had to champion their cause and literally spend human lives to make it happen. It's a little more murky with my second example, because we certainly didn't enter the war to stop the Holocaust, but there were absolutely non-Jewish people who were trying to raise public awareness to enact some kind of response. So, if your point is that the disenfranchised don't need the enfranchised, I have to generally disagree with you - I feel that change only happens when the majority decide it to, albeit through awareness brought on by a necessary vocal minority. But I'm open to what you're saying. I just think we're basically looking at the same thing from opposite ends.
Quote from: flannj on December 15, 2017, 10:39:01 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 15, 2017, 09:53:52 AM
Quote from: flannj on December 15, 2017, 08:43:49 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on December 14, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 14, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 14, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on December 13, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I'm in the minority here but I think it's kinda cool that Jack Morris got in, despite not deserving so based purely on the numbers.
He has roughly the same career bWAR as Carlos Zambrano and he sexually harassed a female reporter and has never once apologized. Fuck him.
Well, time to expel the Yankees of the 1960's (and presumably earlier) who used to look through peepholes in the dugout to see up the skirts of women sitting in the stands.
What an odd response.
It's hard for me to find the line between condemning people for their egregious behaviours and acknowledging that most people think and sometimes say stupid shit, especially older folks who grew up in a different environment than today's. I'd rather talk about his accomplishments on the field, or lack of them, than focus on his off-the-field sexism, mostly because I'm sure that he, and many of our athletic heroes, hold a number of outrageous beliefs that are better left unspoken and not acted upon. And if you are arguing that he doesn't belong in the Hall because he's a piece of shit towards women, then I think we need to scrutinize a lot of other guys who are in there who are, undoubtedly, pieces of shit towards women. Hence the odd response - I feel like it's easier to make a somewhat glib response than say all this shit.
This part is horse shit.
Okay I'm going to edit not because of my usual typing inaccuracies but because this stupid "our generation is more enlightened view" pisses me off.
I would put up my father and my father in law and many of that generation as some of the best and most considerate people I have ever been lucky enough to learn from.
Bad men have always existed and no more or less than today. Views upon behavior are included in that.
Both of the men that I mentioned above would have punched a guys lights out for inappropriate behavior towards a woman.
As would I.
So I guess once again "Fuck you Kurt".
For starters, I said that most people say stupid shit. I never said all people do, so I'm glad that, like a lot of us, you were exposed to strong male role models who knew how to act respectfully toward people, regardless of race or gender.
It would be foolish to assume that every individual alive in the mid 1800's held racist viewpoints towards minorities. If they all felt that way, then there would've been nobody to incite change or progress. It'd be foolish to assume that every German in the 1930's hated Jewish people. So I'm not blanket-stating that all men were sexist or all people were racist or whatever. But I think it's a mistake to hold what anybody said in 1990 to the standards of 2017. Bernie Sanders wrote some crazy shit about women in the 1970's, as well (which, when taken in context isn't quite as crazy, but it's still something from which he'd like to distance himself).
On the other hand, if you want to go after every sexually abusive baseball player, whether they stopped at sexist comments or did something even worse, I'm on board. But at this point, I don't think that's going to happen. I think it's only a matter of time, though, before we start hearing about executives who prevented women from moving up in the hierarchy of their organizations.
Most people? Don't give me that mealy mouth crap. You said "especially older folks"
You said "But I think it's a mistake to hold what anybody said in 1990 to the standards of 2017"
Seriously? Standards of 2017?
Fuck you and your displaced generational views.
It really seems like you're looking for a reason to be angry. What exactly is your point? Like, are you arguing that everybody thinks the same now as they did 30 years ago? Are you saying that the idea of acceptable behaviour has been static, and even now isn't any different than it was, say, 100 years ago? Are you arguing that people aren't a product of their environments, but instead are a product of some unwavering standard of human decency and compassion that has always existed as it is now? I'm not being facetious - I don't understand what you're trying to argue here.
Wrong is wrong. 30 years ago or today. The awfulness of being sexist or abusive or to behave indecently hasn't changed. I find it unfortunate that people think there is a new enlightenment. The act of being a decent human being has existed for centuries. Even for older folks.
Quote from: Canadouche on December 15, 2017, 11:35:27 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 15, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
Well, we've now come to the moment where Kurt grinds my gears.
The shit bolded above is a pet peeve. The idea being that those oppressed need to be rescued...like some sort of a damsel in distress bullshit. You do know that there were people like Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas and a whole bunch of the people who were actually oppressed who helped themselves, right? Who were not only integral to the movement that freed the slaves but were a voice for others who were oppressed otherwise. But, yeah, also John Brown, I guess.
I guess it's cool to give Lyndon Johnson credit for the Civil Rights Act but the people who made the difference were those who were actually oppressed.
So, yeah...inciting change? That's fucking done, throughout history, by those who want the change and that's those who were oppressed in the first place.
I guess I can understand where you're coming from...you're trying to make a very clumsy point. But knock it off.
Hey, sorry I hit on one of your pet peeves. I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to justify it, except to say, the majority in power literally fought a war to free the slaves. Slaves didn't just stop slaving one day to get their freedom - sympathetic non-slaves had to champion their cause and literally spend human lives to make it happen. It's a little more murky with my second example, because we certainly didn't enter the war to stop the Holocaust, but there were absolutely non-Jewish people who were trying to raise public awareness to enact some kind of response. So, if your point is that the disenfranchised don't need the enfranchised, I have to generally disagree with you - I feel that change only happens when the majority decide it to, albeit through awareness brought on by a necessary vocal minority. But I'm open to what you're saying. I just think we're basically looking at the same thing from opposite ends.