Fuck its silent in here.......

[Yeti]

Also, people buy a car or a house not only based off of the whole sale price, but probably more importantly, on the monthly payment.

Buying a house or car while focusing on the monthly payment is an awful, awful financial decision. Not that you're advocating it, necessarily.  Just saying that people probably shouldn't do that, even though they do.

Edit: My final sentence is positively BC-ian, I realize.

So you don't look at the monthly payment amount? Shit, I got this all wrong! I should have bought that $300,000 house because it was really nice, not because it was out of my monthly budget

No, he's saying quite the opposite. Too many people buy a house or car, justifying that they can afford it simply on the basis of the monthly payment. The amount of equity you have in the house, the interest rate, the value of the house, property taxes, the upkeep of the house, etc. are factors often overlooked.

Right, those things do have to be factored in, but I'm not going to decide if I can buy a house based off of the final sales price. Sure it ties into the monthly payment but my decision will ultimately boil down to the monthly payment, because that's what I will have to pay from my pocket each month. The equity in the house (I'm assuming you're looking at down payment) and the interest rate are factored into said payment. The property taxes (and insurance) are sometimes included in the payment as well. So, that's a good chunk of your factors. Unless you're paying cash for a car or house, the monthly payment is a big part of the decision. If you will have to pay a lot in upkeep, then you make sure your payment is low enough. So, no matter what, you will be looking at that payment amount

[Eli]

Also, people buy a car or a house not only based off of the whole sale price, but probably more importantly, on the monthly payment.

Buying a house or car while focusing on the monthly payment is an awful, awful financial decision. Not that you're advocating it, necessarily.  Just saying that people probably shouldn't do that, even though they do.

Edit: My final sentence is positively BC-ian, I realize.

So you don't look at the monthly payment amount? Shit, I got this all wrong! I should have bought that $300,000 house because it was really nice, not because it was out of my monthly budget

No, he's saying quite the opposite. Too many people buy a house or car, justifying that they can afford it simply on the basis of the monthly payment. The amount of equity you have in the house, the interest rate, the value of the house, property taxes, the upkeep of the house, etc. are factors often overlooked.

Exactly, TJ.  Same goes for other purchases.  Car salesmen love it when people come in and say what they want to pay per month, because then the salesman can play around with terms, interest rates, etc. to drive up the cost.  And people don't notice because they're simply willing to pay x-amount of dollars per month until the car is paid off.

Furthermore, drywall something something.

[Bort]

Also, people buy a car or a house not only based off of the whole sale price, but probably more importantly, on the monthly payment.

Buying a house or car while focusing on the monthly payment is an awful, awful financial decision. Not that you're advocating it, necessarily.  Just saying that people probably shouldn't do that, even though they do.

Edit: My final sentence is positively BC-ian, I realize.

So you don't look at the monthly payment amount? Shit, I got this all wrong! I should have bought that $300,000 house because it was really nice, not because it was out of my monthly budget

No, he's saying quite the opposite. Too many people buy a house or car, justifying that they can afford it simply on the basis of the monthly payment. The amount of equity you have in the house, the interest rate, the value of the house, property taxes, the upkeep of the house, etc. are factors often overlooked.

Right, those things do have to be factored in, but I'm not going to decide if I can buy a house based off of the final sales price. Sure it ties into the monthly payment but my decision will ultimately boil down to the monthly payment, because that's what I will have to pay from my pocket each month. The equity in the house (I'm assuming you're looking at down payment) and the interest rate are factored into said payment. The property taxes (and insurance) are sometimes included in the payment as well. So, that's a good chunk of your factors. Unless you're paying cash for a car or house, the monthly payment is a big part of the decision. If you will have to pay a lot in upkeep, then you make sure your payment is low enough. So, no matter what, you will be looking at that payment amount

But what if, by bunting, I move the runner into scoring position?

[R-V]

Also, people buy a car or a house not only based off of the whole sale price, but probably more importantly, on the monthly payment.

Buying a house or car while focusing on the monthly payment is an awful, awful financial decision. Not that you're advocating it, necessarily.  Just saying that people probably shouldn't do that, even though they do.

Edit: My final sentence is positively BC-ian, I realize.

So you don't look at the monthly payment amount? Shit, I got this all wrong! I should have bought that $300,000 house because it was really nice, not because it was out of my monthly budget

No, he's saying quite the opposite. Too many people buy a house or car, justifying that they can afford it simply on the basis of the monthly payment. The amount of equity you have in the house, the interest rate, the value of the house, property taxes, the upkeep of the house, etc. are factors often overlooked.

Right, those things do have to be factored in, but I'm not going to decide if I can buy a house based off of the final sales price. Sure it ties into the monthly payment but my decision will ultimately boil down to the monthly payment, because that's what I will have to pay from my pocket each month. The equity in the house (I'm assuming you're looking at down payment) and the interest rate are factored into said payment. The property taxes (and insurance) are sometimes included in the payment as well. So, that's a good chunk of your factors. Unless you're paying cash for a car or house, the monthly payment is a big part of the decision. If you will have to pay a lot in upkeep, then you make sure your payment is low enough. So, no matter what, you will be looking at that payment amount

Chuck or morph, could you just write Yeti a fucking check so he can stop bellyaching about his personal financial issues?

[Yeti]

Exactly, TJ.  Same goes for other purchases.  Car salesmen love it when people come in and say what they want to pay per month, because then the salesman can play around with terms, interest rates, etc. to drive up the cost.  And people don't notice because they're simply willing to pay x-amount of dollars per month until the car is paid off.

Furthermore, drywall something something.

So we went from me advocating for the gov't to keep middle/lower class income tax rates the same to budgeting to "there are people who make shitty economic decisions and I'm assuming yeti is bitching because I find one phrase in his post that I can dissect beyond belief and piss him off because I'm a pedantic asshole"?

[Brownie]

Also, people buy a car or a house not only based off of the whole sale price, but probably more importantly, on the monthly payment.

Buying a house or car while focusing on the monthly payment is an awful, awful financial decision. Not that you're advocating it, necessarily.  Just saying that people probably shouldn't do that, even though they do.

Edit: My final sentence is positively BC-ian, I realize.

So you don't look at the monthly payment amount? Shit, I got this all wrong! I should have bought that $300,000 house because it was really nice, not because it was out of my monthly budget

No, he's saying quite the opposite. Too many people buy a house or car, justifying that they can afford it simply on the basis of the monthly payment. The amount of equity you have in the house, the interest rate, the value of the house, property taxes, the upkeep of the house, etc. are factors often overlooked.

Right, those things do have to be factored in, but I'm not going to decide if I can buy a house based off of the final sales price. Sure it ties into the monthly payment but my decision will ultimately boil down to the monthly payment, because that's what I will have to pay from my pocket each month. The equity in the house (I'm assuming you're looking at down payment) and the interest rate are factored into said payment. The property taxes (and insurance) are sometimes included in the payment as well. So, that's a good chunk of your factors. Unless you're paying cash for a car or house, the monthly payment is a big part of the decision. If you will have to pay a lot in upkeep, then you make sure your payment is low enough. So, no matter what, you will be looking at that payment amount

Chuck or morph, could you just write Yeti a fucking check loan so he can stop bellyaching about his personal financial issues, and just pay you back with a monthly payment schedule he could afford?

[Yeti]

Chuck or morph, could you just write Yeti a fucking check so he can stop bellyaching about his personal financial issues?

I'm just trying to figure out why I made a poor financial decision for looking at my house's monthly payment when I got it. If only I had come to desipio when I bought it so I would have been advised to not look at it and buy that nice trailer off the coast of Lake Springfield.

[morpheus]

Exactly, TJ.  Same goes for other purchases.  Car salesmen love it when people come in and say what they want to pay per month, because then the salesman can play around with terms, interest rates, etc. to drive up the cost.  And people don't notice because they're simply willing to pay x-amount of dollars per month until the car is paid off.

Furthermore, drywall something something.

So we went from me advocating for the gov't to keep middle/lower class income tax rates the same to budgeting to "there are people who make shitty economic decisions and I'm assuming yeti is bitching because I find one phrase in his post that I can dissect beyond belief and piss him off because I'm a pedantic asshole"?

http://blog.american.com/?p=4619

The unavoidable reality is that much of the burden of addressing the fiscal imbalance will fall on the middle class, broadly defined, either in the form of tax increases or entitlement reductions. That reality may not be pleasant, but it will be less painful if faced sooner rather than later.

Yup.  The maths say that there just aren't enough "rich" to address the fiscal imbalance.

[Chuck to Chuck]

Also, people buy a car or a house not only based off of the whole sale price, but probably more importantly, on the monthly payment.

Buying a house or car while focusing on the monthly payment is an awful, awful financial decision. Not that you're advocating it, necessarily.  Just saying that people probably shouldn't do that, even though they do.

Edit: My final sentence is positively BC-ian, I realize.

So you don't look at the monthly payment amount? Shit, I got this all wrong! I should have bought that $300,000 house because it was really nice, not because it was out of my monthly budget

No, he's saying quite the opposite. Too many people buy a house or car, justifying that they can afford it simply on the basis of the monthly payment. The amount of equity you have in the house, the interest rate, the value of the house, property taxes, the upkeep of the house, etc. are factors often overlooked.

Right, those things do have to be factored in, but I'm not going to decide if I can buy a house based off of the final sales price. Sure it ties into the monthly payment but my decision will ultimately boil down to the monthly payment, because that's what I will have to pay from my pocket each month. The equity in the house (I'm assuming you're looking at down payment) and the interest rate are factored into said payment. The property taxes (and insurance) are sometimes included in the payment as well. So, that's a good chunk of your factors. Unless you're paying cash for a car or house, the monthly payment is a big part of the decision. If you will have to pay a lot in upkeep, then you make sure your payment is low enough. So, no matter what, you will be looking at that payment amount

Chuck or morph, could you just write Yeti a fucking check so he can stop bellyaching about his personal financial issues?

Can I just make him a loan?  What monthly payment can he afford?

[Chuck to Chuck]

I'm just trying to figure out why I made a poor financial decision for looking at my house's monthly payment when I got it. If only I had come to desipio when I bought it so I would have been advised to not look at it and buy that nice trailer off the coast of Lake Springfield.

You didn't by that single data point.

But say you got a house where the payment is $1,000 per month.  You chose that over a house where the payment was $1,250 per month.

In house/loan1, it's an interest only loan. Since you pay no principal, you build no equity and are possibly subject to re-appraisal and foreclosure if your value on the house falls.

House/loan2 is a higher payment, but you are paying the loan down on a 30 year schedule.  This increases equity and mitigates asset devaluation risk.

Which one should you have taken?

FYI, both are real world numbers for a $220,000 mortgage at 5.50%.  The house/loan2 is a traditional 30 year mortgage.

[Yeti]

Exactly, TJ.  Same goes for other purchases.  Car salesmen love it when people come in and say what they want to pay per month, because then the salesman can play around with terms, interest rates, etc. to drive up the cost.  And people don't notice because they're simply willing to pay x-amount of dollars per month until the car is paid off.

Furthermore, drywall something something.

So we went from me advocating for the gov't to keep middle/lower class income tax rates the same to budgeting to "there are people who make shitty economic decisions and I'm assuming yeti is bitching because I find one phrase in his post that I can dissect beyond belief and piss him off because I'm a pedantic asshole"?

http://blog.american.com/?p=4619

The unavoidable reality is that much of the burden of addressing the fiscal imbalance will fall on the middle class, broadly defined, either in the form of tax increases or entitlement reductions. That reality may not be pleasant, but it will be less painful if faced sooner rather than later.

Yup.  The maths say that there just aren't enough "rich" to address the fiscal imbalance.

What percentage of the tax income (gov't side) do they make up? I remember once seeing something on Rush (and I am taking it loosely based off of the source) that the top 1% pays 85% of the taxes and the top 10% pays 99% of the taxes.

[Yeti]

I'm just trying to figure out why I made a poor financial decision for looking at my house's monthly payment when I got it. If only I had come to desipio when I bought it so I would have been advised to not look at it and buy that nice trailer off the coast of Lake Springfield.

You didn't by that single data point.

But say you got a house where the payment is $1,000 per month.  You chose that over a house where the payment was $1,250 per month.

In house/loan1, it's an interest only loan. Since you pay no principal, you build no equity and are possibly subject to re-appraisal and foreclosure if your value on the house falls.

House/loan2 is a higher payment, but you are paying the loan down on a 30 year schedule.  This increases equity and mitigates asset devaluation risk.

Which one should you have taken?

FYI, both are real world numbers for a $220,000 mortgage at 5.50%.  The house/loan2 is a traditional 30 year mortgage.

I don't know any situation where I'd like to take an interest-only loan. I guess what I'm saying (and is apparently getting missed) is that someone factors in the monthly payment into buying a house. It's not the end-all be-all but it's an important factor since it's the direct monthly expenditure. In that situation, if I wasn't comfortable with the higher payment, I'd find a different house that's cheaper (and has a lower monthly payment).

[Chuck to Chuck]

I don't know any situation where I'd like to take an interest-only loan.

Good for you.  One of the reasons we are in the mess we are in now is the madness that was no money down, interest only, no-income-verification loans that were approved.

Fanny and Freddy were essentially landlords and "home buyers" (in these cases) were really renters.

[Yeti]

I don't know any situation where I'd like to take an interest-only loan.

Good for you.  One of the reasons we are in the mess we are in now is the madness that was no money down, interest only, no-income-verification loans that were approved.

Fanny and Freddy were essentially landlords and "home buyers" (in these cases) were really renters.

Why were they even offered? They sound like they're doomed for failure. Is that one of the things that the government was pushing? If so, fuck them.

[morpheus]

Exactly, TJ.  Same goes for other purchases.  Car salesmen love it when people come in and say what they want to pay per month, because then the salesman can play around with terms, interest rates, etc. to drive up the cost.  And people don't notice because they're simply willing to pay x-amount of dollars per month until the car is paid off.

Furthermore, drywall something something.

So we went from me advocating for the gov't to keep middle/lower class income tax rates the same to budgeting to "there are people who make shitty economic decisions and I'm assuming yeti is bitching because I find one phrase in his post that I can dissect beyond belief and piss him off because I'm a pedantic asshole"?

http://blog.american.com/?p=4619

The unavoidable reality is that much of the burden of addressing the fiscal imbalance will fall on the middle class, broadly defined, either in the form of tax increases or entitlement reductions. That reality may not be pleasant, but it will be less painful if faced sooner rather than later.

Yup.  The maths say that there just aren't enough "rich" to address the fiscal imbalance.

What percentage of the tax income (gov't side) do they make up? I remember once seeing something on Rush (and I am taking it loosely based off of the source) that the top 1% pays 85% of the taxes and the top 10% pays 99% of the taxes.

From 2008 : http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/08in11si.xls  It's more like the top 20% paying 85% of taxes...  Doesn't matter though... the point is that if you raised the top rates to something stupidly confiscatory it still wouldn't make up enough of fiscal imbalances to matter.  The middle class is going to get hit with higher taxes.  I'm guessing it will be a VAT.