Javier Baez 2014 ROY-MVP-World Series MVP Thread

[Bort]

Who is suggesting getting rid of ANY decent player except in the opportunity to get a player that increases the chances of winning more games? What unholy Chuckyellonfrodoggenmyer hybrid created by a madman to mock God on high would suggest that?

[Quality Start Machine]

Who is suggesting getting rid of ANY decent player except in the opportunity to get a player that increases the chances of winning more games? What unholy Chuckyellonfrodoggenmyer hybrid created by a madman to mock God on high would suggest that?

SKO

[Tony]

Who is suggesting getting rid of ANY decent player except in the opportunity to get a player that increases the chances of winning more games? What unholy Chuckyellonfrodoggenmyer hybrid created by a madman to mock God on high would suggest that?

Exactly. For example, if signing Samardzija gives them the best chance to win, they have to make that move!

[Bort]

Who is suggesting getting rid of ANY decent player except in the opportunity to get a player that increases the chances of winning more games? What unholy Chuckyellonfrodoggenmyer hybrid created by a madman to mock God on high would suggest that?

Exactly. For example, if signing Samardzija gives them the best chance to win, they have to make that move!

That will never happen, because Snork is an overrated sack of hot garbage.

[Eli]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

Besides, why would Jepstink be in such a balls-out rush to move a guy they've invested so much time and effort into just for the sake of moving him? You've got your cheap replacement infielder, and trading should only be an option this time of year when they can't buy what they need at the price they want.

Oh hey, a strawman.

Who is proposing getting rid of Javy just for funsies or because of the mythical middle infield surplus, really? I think most people think the Cubs are probably going to trade for a quality starting pitcher and will have to give up one of their young bats to do so. Javy just makes the most sense out of that group. Nobody's saying "get rid of him just to get rid of him", not even Chuck.

But why get rid of him at all? There seems to be a raging tradeboner in these parts that I simply cannot understand.

Like Bort said, phrasing it as "get rid of" implies something entirely different trading him to achieve a better value/roster construction.

[Bort]

Who is suggesting getting rid of ANY decent player except in the opportunity to get a player that increases the chances of winning more games? What unholy Chuckyellonfrodoggenmyer hybrid created by a madman to mock God on high would suggest that?

SKO

No, Fork.

[Tony]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

It all just depends on what Baez's trade value is. If he can actually help bring back a young, talented arm (a Tyson Ross or Carlos Carrasco type), that's a far better use of his value than keeping him around for depth purposes.

DPD, but this. I like Javy and would be excited about him entering spring training as the starter at 2B or whatever if they move Castro but if some team is willing to trade a TOR starter and they want Baez instead of Castro then I'm not saying no. That's worth more to them than a valuable backup.

Baez as depth would be a luxury that few teams could afford. It would be crazy to have Hammel start a playoff game with Baez waiting to pinch hit.

[Bort]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

It all just depends on what Baez's trade value is. If he can actually help bring back a young, talented arm (a Tyson Ross or Carlos Carrasco type), that's a far better use of his value than keeping him around for depth purposes.

DPD, but this. I like Javy and would be excited about him entering spring training as the starter at 2B or whatever if they move Castro but if some team is willing to trade a TOR starter and they want Baez instead of Castro then I'm not saying no. That's worth more to them than a valuable backup.

Baez as depth would be a luxury that few teams could afford. It would be crazy to have Hammel start a playoff game with Baez waiting to pinch hit.

One thousand times this. At some point every GM has to give something up to improve their team. There are a finite number of great players, and most people who have one under control aren't going to give them up without something worth gaining in return.

[SKO]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

It all just depends on what Baez's trade value is. If he can actually help bring back a young, talented arm (a Tyson Ross or Carlos Carrasco type), that's a far better use of his value than keeping him around for depth purposes.

DPD, but this. I like Javy and would be excited about him entering spring training as the starter at 2B or whatever if they move Castro but if some team is willing to trade a TOR starter and they want Baez instead of Castro then I'm not saying no. That's worth more to them than a valuable backup.

Baez as depth would be a luxury that few teams could afford. It would be crazy to have Hammel start a playoff game with Baez waiting to pinch hit.

I mean my preference is they sign David Price and we get to keep all our lovely toys. I am willing to accept that maybe they don't want 350+ million tied up in two aging arms, though, and that they may want to try and trade for a young, quality starting pitcher like Ross or Corrasco.

My first offer in that package wouldn't be Baez and I'm sure it won't be Jepstink's either. I'm sure they'll offer Gleyber and every other minor leaguer they've got and maybe Castro before they put Javy on the table, but if we're looking at Javy on the bench and a back of the rotation of Hendricks/Hammel and some second or third tier FA pitcher vs. trading Javy to get Ross or another #1/2 starter then there's no question you should move Javy.

[Oleg]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

It all just depends on what Baez's trade value is. If he can actually help bring back a young, talented arm (a Tyson Ross or Carlos Carrasco type), that's a far better use of his value than keeping him around for depth purposes.

DPD, but this. I like Javy and would be excited about him entering spring training as the starter at 2B or whatever if they move Castro but if some team is willing to trade a TOR starter and they want Baez instead of Castro then I'm not saying no. That's worth more to them than a valuable backup.

Baez as depth would be a luxury that few teams could afford. It would be crazy to have Hammel start a playoff game with Baez waiting to pinch hit.

I mean my preference is they sign David Price and we get to keep all our lovely toys. I am willing to accept that maybe they don't want 350+ million tied up in two aging arms, though, and that they may want to try and trade for a young, quality starting pitcher like Ross or Corrasco.

My first offer in that package wouldn't be Baez and I'm sure it won't be Jepstink's either. I'm sure they'll offer Gleyber and every other minor leaguer they've got and maybe Castro before they put Javy on the table, but if we're looking at Javy on the bench and a back of the rotation of Hendricks/Hammel and some second or third tier FA pitcher vs. trading Javy to get Ross or another #1/2 starter then there's no question you should move Javy.

I'm a little bewildered that something like this has to be explained around here in this much detail.

[Quality Start Machine]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

It all just depends on what Baez's trade value is. If he can actually help bring back a young, talented arm (a Tyson Ross or Carlos Carrasco type), that's a far better use of his value than keeping him around for depth purposes.

DPD, but this. I like Javy and would be excited about him entering spring training as the starter at 2B or whatever if they move Castro but if some team is willing to trade a TOR starter and they want Baez instead of Castro then I'm not saying no. That's worth more to them than a valuable backup.

Baez as depth would be a luxury that few teams could afford. It would be crazy to have Hammel start a playoff game with Baez waiting to pinch hit.

One thousand times this. At some point every GM has to give something up to improve their team. There are a finite number of great players, and most people who have one under control aren't going to give them up without something worth gaining in return.

But for now, the thing the Cubs have they can give up most easily is money.

[SKO]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

It all just depends on what Baez's trade value is. If he can actually help bring back a young, talented arm (a Tyson Ross or Carlos Carrasco type), that's a far better use of his value than keeping him around for depth purposes.

DPD, but this. I like Javy and would be excited about him entering spring training as the starter at 2B or whatever if they move Castro but if some team is willing to trade a TOR starter and they want Baez instead of Castro then I'm not saying no. That's worth more to them than a valuable backup.

Baez as depth would be a luxury that few teams could afford. It would be crazy to have Hammel start a playoff game with Baez waiting to pinch hit.

One thousand times this. At some point every GM has to give something up to improve their team. There are a finite number of great players, and most people who have one under control aren't going to give them up without something worth gaining in return.

But for now, the thing the Cubs have they can give up most easily is money.

Okay but what if they don't have the money you think they have or the willingness to spend it you think they do? What if they want to spend it on Jason Heyward and not on a 31 year old who might be totally useless by the last 3-4 years of their deal when they're probably already expecting the last few years of Lester's contract to be a bit of a drag? Do you deny they'd need to trade for starting pitching in that scenario or just consider starting pitching less useful than Javier Baez doing a Ben Zobrist impersonation?

[Canadouche]

I think it's worth noting that no pitcher ever signed to a 100+ million deal has stayed healthy for the duration (as far as I know, I'm willing to admit I might be mistaken). I think you have to expect time loss to injury, and after that, the inevitable decline. But it might just be the price of doing business, and at least those expensive arms are insured.

[CBStew]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

It all just depends on what Baez's trade value is. If he can actually help bring back a young, talented arm (a Tyson Ross or Carlos Carrasco type), that's a far better use of his value than keeping him around for depth purposes.

DPD, but this. I like Javy and would be excited about him entering spring training as the starter at 2B or whatever if they move Castro but if some team is willing to trade a TOR starter and they want Baez instead of Castro then I'm not saying no. That's worth more to them than a valuable backup.

Baez as depth would be a luxury that few teams could afford. It would be crazy to have Hammel start a playoff game with Baez waiting to pinch hit.

One thousand times this. At some point every GM has to give something up to improve their team. There are a finite number of great players, and most people who have one under control aren't going to give them up without something worth gaining in return.

But for now, the thing the Cubs have they can give up most easily is money.

Okay but what if they don't have the money you think they have or the willingness to spend it you think they do? What if they want to spend it on Jason Heyward and not on a 31 year old who might be totally useless by the last 3-4 years of their deal when they're probably already expecting the last few years of Lester's contract to be a bit of a drag? Do you deny they'd need to trade for starting pitching in that scenario or just consider starting pitching less useful than Javier Baez doing a Ben Zobrist impersonation?

The thing about Lester is that it takes him an inning to settle down.  He gives up 2 to 4 runs in the first inning and then shuts them down until he is taken out in the 5th for a pinch hitter.  If they could let him pitch that first inning as a simulated inning in the bullpen and then bring him in for the second inning he'd win 25 games a season.

[Eli]

Lots of talk about moving Javy for pitching or is he gonna start and what not.

Am I nuts for thinking, they should definitely keep him as a super utility guy? He's not entitled to any full time starting role but his stint at the end of the year proved he's got a lot of value as a fill in guy and he'd be more than acceptable should Castro, Russell, or Bryant get hurt at any point.

Seems like it'd be pretty dumb to get rid of a guy like that.

I agree. As these guys get older and more experienced, they might be more inclined to bitch about consistent roles and/or batting order spots, but while their still young, why not hang on to a guy who can back up at three positions with ease and could probably be a capable OF too.

Every year it seems like there is some team that is over-loaded at some position and trades away some of that depth in spring training, then ends up signing Felix Doubront to fill out their rotation.

It all just depends on what Baez's trade value is. If he can actually help bring back a young, talented arm (a Tyson Ross or Carlos Carrasco type), that's a far better use of his value than keeping him around for depth purposes.

DPD, but this. I like Javy and would be excited about him entering spring training as the starter at 2B or whatever if they move Castro but if some team is willing to trade a TOR starter and they want Baez instead of Castro then I'm not saying no. That's worth more to them than a valuable backup.

Baez as depth would be a luxury that few teams could afford. It would be crazy to have Hammel start a playoff game with Baez waiting to pinch hit.

One thousand times this. At some point every GM has to give something up to improve their team. There are a finite number of great players, and most people who have one under control aren't going to give them up without something worth gaining in return.

But for now, the thing the Cubs have they can give up most easily is money.

We don't really know that though. And even if it's true, they're not going to just hand out a giant nine-figure contract to a pitcher if there's a more efficient way for them to fill that need.