The Atheist Communist Caliphate Made Flesh, Spread the Clusterfuck Around Thread

[MikeC]

To be clear this is the main issue being argued....

Lauria represented one of the bondholder firms, Perella Weinberg, which initially rejected the Obama deal that would give the bondholders about 33 cents on the dollar for their secured debts while giving the United Auto Workers retirees about 50 cents on the dollar for their unsecured debts.

This of course is a violation of one of the basic principles of bankruptcy law, which is that secured creditors — those who lended money only on the contractual promise that if the debt was unpaid they'd get specific property back — get paid off in full before unsecured creditors get anything. Perella Weinberg withdrew its objection to the settlement, but other bondholders did not, which triggered the bankruptcy filing.

So tell me again how Obama was correct is re-writing bankruptcy law and then using the White House and the Press as a scare tactic to force people to go along with it? Even Chuck to Chuck's two cent brain can see this is just plain wrong, he just doesn't want to accept Obama is a fucking idiot.

[Quality Start Machine]

His completely brain dead what?

I need closure on this anecdote!

I see what you did their.

[Quality Start Machine]

To be clear this is the main issue being argued....

Lauria represented one of the bondholder firms, Perella Weinberg, which initially rejected the Obama deal that would give the bondholders about 33 cents on the dollar for their secured debts while giving the United Auto Workers retirees about 50 cents on the dollar for their unsecured debts.

This of course is a violation of one of the basic principles of bankruptcy law, which is that secured creditors — those who lended money only on the contractual promise that if the debt was unpaid they'd get specific property back — get paid off in full before unsecured creditors get anything. Perella Weinberg withdrew its objection to the settlement, but other bondholders did not, which triggered the bankruptcy filing.

So tell me again how Obama was correct is re-writing bankruptcy law and then using the White House and the Press as a scare tactic to force people to go along with it? Even Chuck to Chuck's two cent brain can see this is just plain wrong, he just doesn't want to accept Obama is a fucking idiot.

Shut up Paul, you're a douche.

[Slaky]

I just made some popcorn - let's do this!

[Brownie]

And one more thing.  The debt we are talking about is regularly traded.  That means that the holders are, far more likely than not, "vultures" who bought the debt at a significant discount and while knowing the government was involved.  They made a bet  that, in effect, the government would bail them out by giving them more than the market was then pricing the debt.  They played chicken, and they are losing (their little PR gambit is how they hope to not lose).  The US government is doing what any large creditor in a bankruptcy does, which is throw its weight around to get what it wants (and since its my tax dollars, that's what I want them to do), and the company is using the rights given to debtors, all debtors, under the Bankruptcy Code.

Hawk, you're not really arguing that this should make a difference, are you?  I don't care who the holders are.  The point is that the bondholders have bought into legal, binding, secured debt contracts with Chrysler.  Now, unless Chuck's "read the security agreement" warning turns out to be right and there's some loophole that has yet to be disclosed, then it's pretty clear the government is trying to use its unique position to rewrite existing legal contracts as it sees fit.  And this is a bad idea.

I could argue that Hamilton convincing Washington to pay all Revolutionary War bondholders at par value, even when many of them bought them for pennies on the dollar from the original creditors (and soldiers), did as much for confidence in the U.S. financial system as any of Hamilton's other reforms, which are about as big government as I endorse.

[Gil Gunderson]

A few days ago, in the SBox, I replied to Morph that I hadn't really looked into this story yet, especially as my area of work does not concern bankruptcy explicitly. 

But after examining it further, I do have a couple of notes to make.  First of all, is anyone surprised by the fact that the government, once it got into bed with the auto industry, is now wielding its power absolutely?  This does not shock me at all.  These are the inherent risks of bailouts.  I'm a supporter of creative destruction and it would have applied pretty well to the domestic auto industry, in my opinion.  It would have been painful, certainly (especially for those employed by the auto makers themselves and the subsidiary companies, i.e. the suppliers), but the country as a whole may have been better off in the long run.  However, what's done is done, and now we have to deal with the consequences.

Second, I am loathe to take the word of an attorney (I can feel the self-abnegation), especially one who represents a hedge fund.  Attorneys like to use the media for their goals, and on occasion, they lie.  This isn't news, so I would be careful in taking Lauria's word at face value.  However, if substantiated, this could be somewhat damaging for the administration.

Third, assuming what is done is done, I am intrigued by the new face of the UAW and Chrysler.  Not only from a bargaining position is this interesting, but I would say that the anti-trust implications are just as interesting.  We don't know the full details of what the new Chrysler will look like, but anti-trust law is a tricky devil.

[Gil Gunderson]

DPD, but the Patriot Act is still in full force.  Will this divide the Right?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5049867/

[CBStew]

His completely brain dead what?

I need closure on this anecdote!

I see what you did their.

He was talking about my cat, Mrs. Kitzle, who died two days before Thanksgiving in 2007.  I miss her very much and it is crewel to remind me that she is gone.

[powen01]

His completely brain dead what?

I need closure on this anecdote!

I see what you did their.

He was talking about my cat, Mrs. Kitzle, who died two days before Thanksgiving in 2007.  I miss her very much and it is crewel to remind me that she is gone.

Goodbye crewel world!

[CBStew]

O weight.  I meant to say that she dyed too days before Thanksgiving.

[powen01]

O weight.  I meant to say that she dyed too days before Thanksgiving.

Eye am sew sorry four your laws.

[ChuckD]

O weight.  I meant to say that she dyed too days before Thanksgiving.

Eye am sew sorry four your laws.

shell be in my pary. i am truley sorry for your lots.

[Eli]

LOLcats are the worst thing that has ever happened to this world.

[RV]

This is pretty disturbing. No oversight of a trillion dollars - what could possibly go wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlxBeAvsB8

[Canadouche]

LOLcats are the worst thing that has ever happened to this world.

I'm off the hook!