I am reading Rich Cohen's tome on the 1985 Bears, hoping it would be something different, maybe explaining why the 1985 Bears generate feelings we cannot explain. Cohen sets out to do that, attempting to nail down why this one team is a social phenomenon while Fork's 1986 and 1990 Giants barely register a shrug.
Cohen so far has failed, instead describing his teenage years, which I would imagine to be only marginally more exciting than my teenage years, and that's because Cohen went to Super Bowl XX.
But what gets me are the major factual errors I am beginning to tally. To wit:
1) Hampton played a lot of tackle, but was an end by trade. Steve McMichael was strictly a tackle.
2) Ditka came to the Bears as coach in Jan. 1982, not 1981.
3) The 1963 NFL Championship Game was played at Wrigley Field, not the Polo Grounds. The Polo Grounds has not been home to the football Giants for years at that point.
4) Steve Goodman did not record "Go Cubs Go" in 1972. Was there really a collapse in 1972, anyway?
5) Members of the 1969 Cubs recorded "Hey Hey, Holy Mackeral"
I will add more as I find them, but holy crap, it makes it hard to believe anything new in this book.
The main difference between the Bears and Giants is that the Giants were sharing the stage with the Mets, who also won that year. Plus, it had been less than a decade since the Yankees won, and there were still enough ghosts left from when the Jets and Knicks won.
The Bears were the only championship Chicago had seen in over two decades.
Add to the fact that they only won once, and they are more of a single entity. Much like the 2005 Sox, they have their Camelot. Whereas the Bulls and Blackhawks now have multiple championships, so there isn't that single season that is identifiable as the peak.
Shit, you didn't have to write a book for that.
Quote from: Fork on December 31, 2013, 09:06:18 AM
The main difference between the Bears and Giants is that the Giants were sharing the stage with the Mets, who also won that year. Plus, it had been less than a decade since the Yankees won, and there were still enough ghosts left from when the Jets and Knicks won.
The Bears were the only championship Chicago had seen in over two decades.
Add to the fact that they only won once, and they are more of a single entity. Much like the 2005 Sox, they have their Camelot. Whereas the Bulls and Blackhawks now have multiple championships, so there isn't that single season that is identifiable as the peak.
Shit, you didn't have to write a book for that.
THIS and that the Bears were the only team the whole city was watching at the time. Everyone saw them.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on December 31, 2013, 09:27:49 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 31, 2013, 09:06:18 AM
The main difference between the Bears and Giants is that the Giants were sharing the stage with the Mets, who also won that year. Plus, it had been less than a decade since the Yankees won, and there were still enough ghosts left from when the Jets and Knicks won.
The Bears were the only championship Chicago had seen in over two decades.
Add to the fact that they only won once, and they are more of a single entity. Much like the 2005 Sox, they have their Camelot. Whereas the Bulls and Blackhawks now have multiple championships, so there isn't that single season that is identifiable as the peak.
Shit, you didn't have to write a book for that.
THIS and that the Bears were the only team the whole city was watching at the time. Everyone saw them.
Outside of the '94 Rangers (and maybe the '86 Mets because of a remarkable cast of characters and circumstances) no single NY team has really captured the area, because generally at least 25% of the population roots for a different team in the same region.
Hell, Louie Carneseca's St. John's teams might have captured as much of the collective enthusiasm as the '86 Giants.
Granted, I was 10 and wearing a Louis Lipps jersey rather than LT, but this is how I recall it.
Quote from: PenFoe on December 31, 2013, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on December 31, 2013, 09:27:49 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 31, 2013, 09:06:18 AM
The main difference between the Bears and Giants is that the Giants were sharing the stage with the Mets, who also won that year. Plus, it had been less than a decade since the Yankees won, and there were still enough ghosts left from when the Jets and Knicks won.
The Bears were the only championship Chicago had seen in over two decades.
Add to the fact that they only won once, and they are more of a single entity. Much like the 2005 Sox, they have their Camelot. Whereas the Bulls and Blackhawks now have multiple championships, so there isn't that single season that is identifiable as the peak.
Shit, you didn't have to write a book for that.
THIS and that the Bears were the only team the whole city was watching at the time. Everyone saw them.
Outside of the '94 Rangers (and maybe the '86 Mets because of a remarkable cast of characters and circumstances) no single NY team has really captured the area, because generally at least 25% of the population roots for a different team in the same region.
Hell, Louie Carneseca's St. John's teams might have captured as much of the collective enthusiasm as the '86 Giants.
Granted, I was 10 and wearing a Louis Lipps jersey rather than LT, but this is how I recall it.
It was the personalities. Who gives a shit about the 2005 Sox? Sox fans can talk about how great that team was, but it's not like Jon Garland, Joe Crede, Juan Uribe, Tadahito Iguchi and Jermaine Dye are eating and drinking for free in Beverly. The Bears were also a
national phenomenon, bigger than any superteam of that era (Lakers, Celtics, 49ers, Giants, A's, etc.)
The 49ers' biggest name was a highly punchable Domer, and the second-biggest name was one of the best football players ever to play and a nice guy, but a bland nice guy. The Giants' best player was also the only one anyone would be interested in, but his coke habit made him a little too toxic for Madison Ave.
Anyway, the book has its moments, but on balance it sucks.
Thanks for the review TJ, when I saw this was coming out, my first thought was what the hell could be new? The '85 Bears story has been hashed and rehashed numerous times and it's not like anybody on the team was previously reluctant to publicly air the various grievances they had with other players/coaches/McCaskeys/whoever.
The excerpts I'd read didn't reveal anything new in the approach, and it sounds like that's the case.
Quote from: Brownie on December 31, 2013, 10:54:58 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on December 31, 2013, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on December 31, 2013, 09:27:49 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 31, 2013, 09:06:18 AM
The main difference between the Bears and Giants is that the Giants were sharing the stage with the Mets, who also won that year. Plus, it had been less than a decade since the Yankees won, and there were still enough ghosts left from when the Jets and Knicks won.
The Bears were the only championship Chicago had seen in over two decades.
Add to the fact that they only won once, and they are more of a single entity. Much like the 2005 Sox, they have their Camelot. Whereas the Bulls and Blackhawks now have multiple championships, so there isn't that single season that is identifiable as the peak.
Shit, you didn't have to write a book for that.
THIS and that the Bears were the only team the whole city was watching at the time. Everyone saw them.
Outside of the '94 Rangers (and maybe the '86 Mets because of a remarkable cast of characters and circumstances) no single NY team has really captured the area, because generally at least 25% of the population roots for a different team in the same region.
Hell, Louie Carneseca's St. John's teams might have captured as much of the collective enthusiasm as the '86 Giants.
Granted, I was 10 and wearing a Louis Lipps jersey rather than LT, but this is how I recall it.
It was the personalities. Who gives a shit about the 2005 Sox? Sox fans can talk about how great that team was, but it's not like Jon Garland, Joe Crede, Juan Uribe, Tadahito Iguchi and Jermaine Dye are eating and drinking for free in Beverly. The Bears were also a national phenomenon, bigger than any superteam of that era (Lakers, Celtics, 49ers, Giants, A's, etc.)
The 49ers' biggest name was a highly punchable Domer, and the second-biggest name was one of the best football players ever to play and a nice guy, but a bland nice guy. The Giants' best player was also the only one anyone would be interested in, but his coke habit made him a little too toxic for Madison Ave.
Anyway, the book has its moments, but on balance it sucks.
I can attest to the national nature of the '85 Bears. Even in Summerville, SC, they were all anyone talked about that year in the NFL.
Quote from: Bort on December 31, 2013, 12:03:02 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 31, 2013, 10:54:58 AM
Quote from: PenFoe on December 31, 2013, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on December 31, 2013, 09:27:49 AM
Quote from: Fork on December 31, 2013, 09:06:18 AM
The main difference between the Bears and Giants is that the Giants were sharing the stage with the Mets, who also won that year. Plus, it had been less than a decade since the Yankees won, and there were still enough ghosts left from when the Jets and Knicks won.
The Bears were the only championship Chicago had seen in over two decades.
Add to the fact that they only won once, and they are more of a single entity. Much like the 2005 Sox, they have their Camelot. Whereas the Bulls and Blackhawks now have multiple championships, so there isn't that single season that is identifiable as the peak.
Shit, you didn't have to write a book for that.
THIS and that the Bears were the only team the whole city was watching at the time. Everyone saw them.
Outside of the '94 Rangers (and maybe the '86 Mets because of a remarkable cast of characters and circumstances) no single NY team has really captured the area, because generally at least 25% of the population roots for a different team in the same region.
Hell, Louie Carneseca's St. John's teams might have captured as much of the collective enthusiasm as the '86 Giants.
Granted, I was 10 and wearing a Louis Lipps jersey rather than LT, but this is how I recall it.
It was the personalities. Who gives a shit about the 2005 Sox? Sox fans can talk about how great that team was, but it's not like Jon Garland, Joe Crede, Juan Uribe, Tadahito Iguchi and Jermaine Dye are eating and drinking for free in Beverly. The Bears were also a national phenomenon, bigger than any superteam of that era (Lakers, Celtics, 49ers, Giants, A's, etc.)
The 49ers' biggest name was a highly punchable Domer, and the second-biggest name was one of the best football players ever to play and a nice guy, but a bland nice guy. The Giants' best player was also the only one anyone would be interested in, but his coke habit made him a little too toxic for Madison Ave.
Anyway, the book has its moments, but on balance it sucks.
I can attest to the national nature of the '85 Bears. Even in Summerville, SC, they were all anyone talked about that year in the NFL.
Also in Albuquerque, NM. I didn't really have a team in those days, so 1985 was probably the first Super Bowl I actually cared about.
Quote from: CT III on December 31, 2013, 11:44:36 AM
Thanks for the review TJ, when I saw this was coming out, my first thought was what the hell could be new? The '85 Bears story has been hashed and rehashed numerous times and it's not like anybody on the team was previously reluctant to publicly air the various grievances they had with other players/coaches/McCaskeys/whoever.
The excerpts I'd read didn't reveal anything new in the approach, and it sounds like that's the case.
The one new thing I read was that when Ditka was picked up drunk driving on the way home from ORD after the team flight from SFO, he had drank approximately 3 bottles out of a case of wine he bought in Napa. Also, he signed his ticket and wrote "Fuck you Jack" in the comments line of the ticket.
The other things: Steve McMichael claims McMahon was at least politely shitfaced during the game at Minnesota, thus explaining his stumble on his first dropback; Cohen claims the team spent its day drinking on South Beach before bringing their talents to the Orange Bowl, and Buddy Ryan had no gameplan for the Dolphins; The University of Illinois allegedly cannot reach Tony Eason who was last seen coaching youth basketball in Sacramento; Joe Ferguson sells real estate in Arkansas and would probably love to sell JD a house, but he will not talk about the weekend after Christmas 1985 in Detroit; Bob Avellini does not like George Halas, Mike Ditka or Walter Payton; Cohen's Brooklyn-born Dad wore Cowboy boots and a Cowboy hat and watched the games in '85 with Cohen in their kitchen while mutterin cliches.
These all might even be true!
Quote from: Brownie on December 31, 2013, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: CT III on December 31, 2013, 11:44:36 AM
Thanks for the review TJ, when I saw this was coming out, my first thought was what the hell could be new? The '85 Bears story has been hashed and rehashed numerous times and it's not like anybody on the team was previously reluctant to publicly air the various grievances they had with other players/coaches/McCaskeys/whoever.
The excerpts I'd read didn't reveal anything new in the approach, and it sounds like that's the case.
The one new thing I read was that when Ditka was picked up drunk driving on the way home from ORD after the team flight from SFO, he had drank approximately 3 bottles out of a case of wine he bought in Napa. Also, he signed his ticket and wrote "Fuck you Jack" in the comments line of the ticket.
The other things: Steve McMichael claims McMahon was at least politely shitfaced during the game at Minnesota, thus explaining his stumble on his first dropback; Cohen claims the team spent its day drinking on South Beach before bringing their talents to the Orange Bowl, and Buddy Ryan had no gameplan for the Dolphins; The University of Illinois allegedly cannot reach Tony Eason who was last seen coaching youth basketball in Sacramento; Joe Ferguson sells real estate in Arkansas and would probably love to sell JD a house, but he will not talk about the weekend after Christmas 1985 in Detroit; Bob Avellini does not like George Halas, Mike Ditka or Walter Payton; Cohen's Brooklyn-born Dad wore Cowboy boots and a Cowboy hat and watched the games in '85 with Cohen in their kitchen while mutterin cliches.
These all might even be true!
I actually thought after that hit that Joe Ferguson was dead.
I can't be the only Bears fan that simply does not give a shit about the 85 Bears.
Buttpuddle was Bears-crazy in 1985 and I thought it would stay that way forever. I was wrong. DadPex joined the Bears fanbase in 1963 when several of his college fraternity brothers from Chicagoland dragged him into the fray. I had Walter Payton (and Dave Kingman!) posters on my wall before I knew how to read.
I seriously thought that the 1984/85 Cubs and Bears were what I should expect from SPORTZ as I came into being. I still feel the 86-91 dickpunches on cold days.
There's my 1985 Bears post.
Quote from: Slaky on December 31, 2013, 01:15:53 PM
I can't be the only Bears fan that simply does not give a shit about the 85 Bears.
Do I count since I was born 3 years after the fact?
Quote from: Brownie on December 31, 2013, 12:29:35 PM
The one new thing I read was that when Ditka was picked up drunk driving on the way home from ORD after the team flight from SFO, he had drank approximately 3 bottles out of a case of wine he bought in Napa. Also, he signed his ticket and wrote "Fuck you Jack" in the comments line of the ticket.
The other things: Steve McMichael claims McMahon was at least politely shitfaced during the game at Minnesota, thus explaining his stumble on his first dropback; Cohen claims the team spent its day drinking on South Beach before bringing their talents to the Orange Bowl, and Buddy Ryan had no gameplan for the Dolphins; The University of Illinois allegedly cannot reach Tony Eason who was last seen coaching youth basketball in Sacramento; Joe Ferguson sells real estate in Arkansas and would probably love to sell JD a house, but he will not talk about the weekend after Christmas 1985 in Detroit; Bob Avellini does not like George Halas, Mike Ditka or Walter Payton; Cohen's Brooklyn-born Dad wore Cowboy boots and a Cowboy hat and watched the games in '85 with Cohen in their kitchen while mutterin cliches.
These all might even be true!
Yeah, most of that I've read previously in John Mullin's thoroughly adequate and awkwardly titled "The Rise & Self-Destruction of the Greatest Football Team in History: The Chicago Bears and Super Bowl XX". I'm pretty sure some of the players went as far as saying that Buddy Ryan basically threw the Dolphins game because he thought the undefeated season was a distraction. I wouldn't call it a particularly well-written book, but it covers the 1985 team fine and the in-fighting during the subsequent seasons that derailed the team. Frankly, most of that stuff is more interesting than what happened during '85.
Quote from: Brownie on December 30, 2013, 09:45:32 PM
I am reading Rich Cohen's tome on the 1985 Bears, hoping it would be something different, maybe explaining why the 1985 Bears generate feelings we cannot explain. Cohen sets out to do that, attempting to nail down why this one team is a social phenomenon while Fork's 1986 and 1990 Giants barely register a shrug.
Cohen so far has failed, instead describing his teenage years, which I would imagine to be only marginally more exciting than my teenage years, and that's because Cohen went to Super Bowl XX.
But what gets me are the major factual errors I am beginning to tally. To wit:
1) Hampton played a lot of tackle, but was an end by trade. Steve McMichael was strictly a tackle.
2) Ditka came to the Bears as coach in Jan. 1982, not 1981.
3) The 1963 NFL Championship Game was played at Wrigley Field, not the Polo Grounds. The Polo Grounds has not been home to the football Giants for years at that point.
4) Steve Goodman did not record "Go Cubs Go" in 1972. Was there really a collapse in 1972, anyway?
5) Members of the 1969 Cubs recorded "Hey Hey, Holy Mackeral"
I will add more as I find them, but holy crap, it makes it hard to believe anything new in this book.
Jim McMahon's restaurant in Northbrook did not open until 2001 or so, so I wouldn't be as quick as Cohen to blame it for the failure of the Bears to win another Super Bowl.
Also, Doug Flutie was acquired from the L.A. Rams, who retained his rights after the demise of the USFL.
Quote from: Brownie on January 01, 2014, 10:31:16 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 30, 2013, 09:45:32 PM
I am reading Rich Cohen's tome on the 1985 Bears, hoping it would be something different, maybe explaining why the 1985 Bears generate feelings we cannot explain. Cohen sets out to do that, attempting to nail down why this one team is a social phenomenon while Fork's 1986 and 1990 Giants barely register a shrug.
Cohen so far has failed, instead describing his teenage years, which I would imagine to be only marginally more exciting than my teenage years, and that's because Cohen went to Super Bowl XX.
But what gets me are the major factual errors I am beginning to tally. To wit:
1) Hampton played a lot of tackle, but was an end by trade. Steve McMichael was strictly a tackle.
2) Ditka came to the Bears as coach in Jan. 1982, not 1981.
3) The 1963 NFL Championship Game was played at Wrigley Field, not the Polo Grounds. The Polo Grounds has not been home to the football Giants for years at that point.
4) Steve Goodman did not record "Go Cubs Go" in 1972. Was there really a collapse in 1972, anyway?
5) Members of the 1969 Cubs recorded "Hey Hey, Holy Mackeral"
I will add more as I find them, but holy crap, it makes it hard to believe anything new in this book.
Jim McMahon's restaurant in Northbrook did not open until 2001 or so, so I wouldn't be as quick as Cohen to blame it for the failure of the Bears to win another Super Bowl.
Also, Doug Flutie was acquired from the L.A. Rams, who retained his rights after the demise of the USFL.
Oh, and that Charles Martin play did not come early in the game. It was McMahon's 32nd pass attempt of the game. Also, he did not suit up again in 1986... not even in the playoffs
Quote from: Brownie on January 01, 2014, 10:36:22 AM
Quote from: Brownie on January 01, 2014, 10:31:16 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 30, 2013, 09:45:32 PM
I am reading Rich Cohen's tome on the 1985 Bears, hoping it would be something different, maybe explaining why the 1985 Bears generate feelings we cannot explain. Cohen sets out to do that, attempting to nail down why this one team is a social phenomenon while Fork's 1986 and 1990 Giants barely register a shrug.
Cohen so far has failed, instead describing his teenage years, which I would imagine to be only marginally more exciting than my teenage years, and that's because Cohen went to Super Bowl XX.
But what gets me are the major factual errors I am beginning to tally. To wit:
1) Hampton played a lot of tackle, but was an end by trade. Steve McMichael was strictly a tackle.
2) Ditka came to the Bears as coach in Jan. 1982, not 1981.
3) The 1963 NFL Championship Game was played at Wrigley Field, not the Polo Grounds. The Polo Grounds has not been home to the football Giants for years at that point.
4) Steve Goodman did not record "Go Cubs Go" in 1972. Was there really a collapse in 1972, anyway?
5) Members of the 1969 Cubs recorded "Hey Hey, Holy Mackeral"
I will add more as I find them, but holy crap, it makes it hard to believe anything new in this book.
Jim McMahon's restaurant in Northbrook did not open until 2001 or so, so I wouldn't be as quick as Cohen to blame it for the failure of the Bears to win another Super Bowl.
Also, Doug Flutie was acquired from the L.A. Rams, who retained his rights after the demise of the USFL.
Oh, and that Charles Martin play did not come early in the game. It was McMahon's 32nd pass attempt of the game. Also, he did not suit up again in 1986... not even in the playoffs
DadPex is reading this book and thoroughly enjoying it. I'm not going to tell him about all the factual errors but I will decline if he offers to let me borrow it.
Quote from: InternetApex on January 02, 2014, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: Brownie on January 01, 2014, 10:36:22 AM
Quote from: Brownie on January 01, 2014, 10:31:16 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 30, 2013, 09:45:32 PM
I am reading Rich Cohen's tome on the 1985 Bears, hoping it would be something different, maybe explaining why the 1985 Bears generate feelings we cannot explain. Cohen sets out to do that, attempting to nail down why this one team is a social phenomenon while Fork's 1986 and 1990 Giants barely register a shrug.
Cohen so far has failed, instead describing his teenage years, which I would imagine to be only marginally more exciting than my teenage years, and that's because Cohen went to Super Bowl XX.
But what gets me are the major factual errors I am beginning to tally. To wit:
1) Hampton played a lot of tackle, but was an end by trade. Steve McMichael was strictly a tackle.
2) Ditka came to the Bears as coach in Jan. 1982, not 1981.
3) The 1963 NFL Championship Game was played at Wrigley Field, not the Polo Grounds. The Polo Grounds has not been home to the football Giants for years at that point.
4) Steve Goodman did not record "Go Cubs Go" in 1972. Was there really a collapse in 1972, anyway?
5) Members of the 1969 Cubs recorded "Hey Hey, Holy Mackeral"
I will add more as I find them, but holy crap, it makes it hard to believe anything new in this book.
Jim McMahon's restaurant in Northbrook did not open until 2001 or so, so I wouldn't be as quick as Cohen to blame it for the failure of the Bears to win another Super Bowl.
Also, Doug Flutie was acquired from the L.A. Rams, who retained his rights after the demise of the USFL.
Oh, and that Charles Martin play did not come early in the game. It was McMahon's 32nd pass attempt of the game. Also, he did not suit up again in 1986... not even in the playoffs
DadPex is reading this book and thoroughly enjoying it. I'm not going to tell him about all the factual errors but I will decline if he offers to let me borrow it.
He probably is noting the factual errors such as the 1963 title game at the dilapidated Polo Grounds, but the book is about the '85 Bears, not about pre-Czarist Russia. It has its moments but the factual errors and the self-serving stuff ruined it for me.
Quote from: InternetApex on January 02, 2014, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: Brownie on January 01, 2014, 10:36:22 AM
Quote from: Brownie on January 01, 2014, 10:31:16 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 30, 2013, 09:45:32 PM
I am reading Rich Cohen's tome on the 1985 Bears, hoping it would be something different, maybe explaining why the 1985 Bears generate feelings we cannot explain. Cohen sets out to do that, attempting to nail down why this one team is a social phenomenon while Fork's 1986 and 1990 Giants barely register a shrug.
Cohen so far has failed, instead describing his teenage years, which I would imagine to be only marginally more exciting than my teenage years, and that's because Cohen went to Super Bowl XX.
But what gets me are the major factual errors I am beginning to tally. To wit:
1) Hampton played a lot of tackle, but was an end by trade. Steve McMichael was strictly a tackle.
2) Ditka came to the Bears as coach in Jan. 1982, not 1981.
3) The 1963 NFL Championship Game was played at Wrigley Field, not the Polo Grounds. The Polo Grounds has not been home to the football Giants for years at that point.
4) Steve Goodman did not record "Go Cubs Go" in 1972. Was there really a collapse in 1972, anyway?
5) Members of the 1969 Cubs recorded "Hey Hey, Holy Mackeral"
I will add more as I find them, but holy crap, it makes it hard to believe anything new in this book.
Jim McMahon's restaurant in Northbrook did not open until 2001 or so, so I wouldn't be as quick as Cohen to blame it for the failure of the Bears to win another Super Bowl.
Also, Doug Flutie was acquired from the L.A. Rams, who retained his rights after the demise of the USFL.
Oh, and that Charles Martin play did not come early in the game. It was McMahon's 32nd pass attempt of the game. Also, he did not suit up again in 1986... not even in the playoffs
DadPex is reading this book and thoroughly enjoying it. I'm not going to tell him about all the factual errors but I will decline if he offers to let me borrow it.
Kind of like when my dad tells me I should read his Brad Thor books