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Author Topic: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross  ( 99,704 )

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #510 on: December 02, 2015, 08:59:27 AM »
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 08:49:00 AM
Quote from: PANK! on December 02, 2015, 08:39:42 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

I'd rather they keep those two and re-sign Fowler myself.

DPD, but I'd probably rather they do that as well, I think Eli was just trying to determine how much we valued Schwarber or Russell. Hard to say that a nearly 7 WAR CF isn't worth either of those guys, frankly.

In his prime, with three years of team control left. I don't think most people realize how good he is.

DPD...this is fair.  I, myself, hadn't realized how good Pollock was until I looked at his BB-Ref page.

Still, after re-calibrating my assessment of Pollock, I stand by my answer.
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Eli

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #511 on: December 02, 2015, 09:05:25 AM »
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 02, 2015, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

Not me. SKO would.

You probably wouldn't trade either of those guys for Bryce Harper though.

InternetApex

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #512 on: December 02, 2015, 09:34:11 AM »
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 09:05:25 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 02, 2015, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

Not me. SKO would.

You probably wouldn't trade either of those guys for Bryce Harper though.

Too pasty.
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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #513 on: December 02, 2015, 09:34:25 AM »
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 09:05:25 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 02, 2015, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

Not me. SKO would.

You probably wouldn't trade either of those guys for Bryce Harper though.

Clown question, bro.
TIME TO POST!

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Oleg

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #514 on: December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM »
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #515 on: December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM »
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.
TIME TO POST!

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SKO

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #516 on: December 03, 2015, 12:01:59 PM »
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.

This is like the third time you've made some comment like this and I have no idea what you mean by it. Fowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before. Is it just the home run total you look at? That would explain the reluctance to trade Schwarber I suppose.

Fowler posted a career high WAR this year but that was almost entirely due to his defensive improvements, which can probably be chalked up to playing in Wrigley's CF and not Houston or Colorado where CF is a nightmare. I don't see any reason to expect Fowler to be worse than last year. He might even be a bit better, albeit with maybe fewer home runs.
I will vow, for the sake of peace, not to complain about David Ross between now and his first start next year- 10/26/2015

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #517 on: December 03, 2015, 12:11:06 PM »
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.

This is like the third time you've made some comment like this and I have no idea what you mean by it. Fowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before. Is it just the home run total you look at? That would explain the reluctance to trade Schwarber I suppose.

Fowler posted a career high WAR this year but that was almost entirely due to his defensive improvements, which can probably be chalked up to playing in Wrigley's CF and not the Houston or Colorado where CF is a nightmare. I don't see any reason to expect Fowler to be worse than last year. He might even be a bit better, albeit with maybe fewer home runs.

Yeah I thought homeruns was the only area where Fowler improved on his career totals (not counting defense obvi).  Y'all might recall that he was actually sucking some major ass through mid-July before getting hotter than shit and restoring his numbers.  All told, his final numbers from last year (homeruns aside) were still below his career norms--.250/.346/.411 in 2015 vs. a career slash line of .267/.363/.418...even with reaching a career high in homeruns, Fowler's SLG % on the year was below his career average.  
Just a sloppy, undisciplined team.  Garbage.

--SKO, on the 2018 Chicago Cubs

SKO

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #518 on: December 03, 2015, 12:14:23 PM »
Quote from: PANK! on December 03, 2015, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.

This is like the third time you've made some comment like this and I have no idea what you mean by it. Fowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before. Is it just the home run total you look at? That would explain the reluctance to trade Schwarber I suppose.

Fowler posted a career high WAR this year but that was almost entirely due to his defensive improvements, which can probably be chalked up to playing in Wrigley's CF and not the Houston or Colorado where CF is a nightmare. I don't see any reason to expect Fowler to be worse than last year. He might even be a bit better, albeit with maybe fewer home runs.

Yeah I thought homeruns was the only area where Fowler improved on his career totals (not counting defense obvi).  Y'all might recall that he was actually sucking some major ass through mid-July before getting hotter than shit and restoring his numbers.  All told, his final numbers from last year (homeruns aside) were still below his career norms--.250/.346/.411 in 2015 vs. a career slash line of .267/.363/.418...even with reaching a career high in homeruns, Fowler's SLG % on the year was below his career average.  

Ahem

QuoteFowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before

Pay the fuck attention, Seamus.
I will vow, for the sake of peace, not to complain about David Ross between now and his first start next year- 10/26/2015

CT III

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #519 on: December 03, 2015, 12:17:16 PM »
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: PANK! on December 03, 2015, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.

This is like the third time you've made some comment like this and I have no idea what you mean by it. Fowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before. Is it just the home run total you look at? That would explain the reluctance to trade Schwarber I suppose.

Fowler posted a career high WAR this year but that was almost entirely due to his defensive improvements, which can probably be chalked up to playing in Wrigley's CF and not the Houston or Colorado where CF is a nightmare. I don't see any reason to expect Fowler to be worse than last year. He might even be a bit better, albeit with maybe fewer home runs.

Yeah I thought homeruns was the only area where Fowler improved on his career totals (not counting defense obvi).  Y'all might recall that he was actually sucking some major ass through mid-July before getting hotter than shit and restoring his numbers.  All told, his final numbers from last year (homeruns aside) were still below his career norms--.250/.346/.411 in 2015 vs. a career slash line of .267/.363/.418...even with reaching a career high in homeruns, Fowler's SLG % on the year was below his career average.  

Ahem

QuoteFowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before

Pay the fuck attention, Seamus.

It's almost like nobody reads any of these posts except for Fork's.

Oleg

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #520 on: December 03, 2015, 12:20:26 PM »
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: PANK! on December 03, 2015, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.

This is like the third time you've made some comment like this and I have no idea what you mean by it. Fowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before. Is it just the home run total you look at? That would explain the reluctance to trade Schwarber I suppose.

Fowler posted a career high WAR this year but that was almost entirely due to his defensive improvements, which can probably be chalked up to playing in Wrigley's CF and not the Houston or Colorado where CF is a nightmare. I don't see any reason to expect Fowler to be worse than last year. He might even be a bit better, albeit with maybe fewer home runs.

Yeah I thought homeruns was the only area where Fowler improved on his career totals (not counting defense obvi).  Y'all might recall that he was actually sucking some major ass through mid-July before getting hotter than shit and restoring his numbers.  All told, his final numbers from last year (homeruns aside) were still below his career norms--.250/.346/.411 in 2015 vs. a career slash line of .267/.363/.418...even with reaching a career high in homeruns, Fowler's SLG % on the year was below his career average.  

Ahem

QuoteFowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before

Pay the fuck attention, Seamus.

I think he was just agreeing with you and using stats that don't need an advanced degree in Fangraphs to explain his reasoning.  That's how I read it.

SKO

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #521 on: December 03, 2015, 12:22:32 PM »
Quote from: Oleg on December 03, 2015, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: PANK! on December 03, 2015, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.

This is like the third time you've made some comment like this and I have no idea what you mean by it. Fowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before. Is it just the home run total you look at? That would explain the reluctance to trade Schwarber I suppose.

Fowler posted a career high WAR this year but that was almost entirely due to his defensive improvements, which can probably be chalked up to playing in Wrigley's CF and not the Houston or Colorado where CF is a nightmare. I don't see any reason to expect Fowler to be worse than last year. He might even be a bit better, albeit with maybe fewer home runs.

Yeah I thought homeruns was the only area where Fowler improved on his career totals (not counting defense obvi).  Y'all might recall that he was actually sucking some major ass through mid-July before getting hotter than shit and restoring his numbers.  All told, his final numbers from last year (homeruns aside) were still below his career norms--.250/.346/.411 in 2015 vs. a career slash line of .267/.363/.418...even with reaching a career high in homeruns, Fowler's SLG % on the year was below his career average.  

Ahem

QuoteFowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before

Pay the fuck attention, Seamus.

I think he was just agreeing with you and using stats that don't need an advanced degree in Fangraphs to explain his reasoning.  That's how I read it.

Hey I put BA/OBP/SLG first and I just wanted to yell at Huey. I regret nothing.
I will vow, for the sake of peace, not to complain about David Ross between now and his first start next year- 10/26/2015

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #522 on: December 03, 2015, 12:23:14 PM »
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: PANK! on December 03, 2015, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.

This is like the third time you've made some comment like this and I have no idea what you mean by it. Fowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before. Is it just the home run total you look at? That would explain the reluctance to trade Schwarber I suppose.

Fowler posted a career high WAR this year but that was almost entirely due to his defensive improvements, which can probably be chalked up to playing in Wrigley's CF and not the Houston or Colorado where CF is a nightmare. I don't see any reason to expect Fowler to be worse than last year. He might even be a bit better, albeit with maybe fewer home runs.

Yeah I thought homeruns was the only area where Fowler improved on his career totals (not counting defense obvi).  Y'all might recall that he was actually sucking some major ass through mid-July before getting hotter than shit and restoring his numbers.  All told, his final numbers from last year (homeruns aside) were still below his career norms--.250/.346/.411 in 2015 vs. a career slash line of .267/.363/.418...even with reaching a career high in homeruns, Fowler's SLG % on the year was below his career average.  

Ahem

QuoteFowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before

Pay the fuck attention, Seamus.

His God-awful September drove his numbers down. But he was in full Salary Drive mode in July and August.
TIME TO POST!

"...their lead is no longer even remotely close to insurmountable " - SKO, 7/31/16

SKO

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #523 on: December 03, 2015, 12:26:36 PM »
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: PANK! on December 03, 2015, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 03, 2015, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on December 03, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 02, 2015, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Eli on December 02, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 02, 2015, 07:50:47 AM
To be fair, Fork offering Coghlan/Wood for Miller is only the third dumbest trade proposal involving Shelby Miller I heard yesterday, with the Braves apparently real offers of Shelby Miller for AJ Pollock, or Shelby Miller/Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and one of the Diamondbacks top ten prospects taking the cake.

At least Fork understood WAR enough to know the Cubs should offer a package that was worth more wins than Miller alone was, the Braves apparently decided to offer Miller's 3.4 WAR as a middle of the rotation starter for a guy that was worth nearly 7 wins in CF.

It's going to take more effort than it's worth to talk them down from thinking Miller is worth Pollock to thinking Miller is worth something less than Jorge Soler. Pass.

Just spitballing, but would anyone here trade Schwarber or Russell for Pollock?

No on Russell.  Yes on Schwarber.

Can I also have Shipley or Blair?  Only because if they trade Schwarber, I'd like them to get a good pitcher back, even if it's just a top prospect.  I'd even consider Corbin or Bradley but those injuries are scary.

Pretty much this. I'd put Schwarber on the table if it meant getting some serious pitching coming back. But as good as Pollock is, the Cubs would be better off re-signing Fowler knowing he'll regress to his standard career levels and keep a potential 40+ HR bat.

This is like the third time you've made some comment like this and I have no idea what you mean by it. Fowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before. Is it just the home run total you look at? That would explain the reluctance to trade Schwarber I suppose.

Fowler posted a career high WAR this year but that was almost entirely due to his defensive improvements, which can probably be chalked up to playing in Wrigley's CF and not the Houston or Colorado where CF is a nightmare. I don't see any reason to expect Fowler to be worse than last year. He might even be a bit better, albeit with maybe fewer home runs.

Yeah I thought homeruns was the only area where Fowler improved on his career totals (not counting defense obvi).  Y'all might recall that he was actually sucking some major ass through mid-July before getting hotter than shit and restoring his numbers.  All told, his final numbers from last year (homeruns aside) were still below his career norms--.250/.346/.411 in 2015 vs. a career slash line of .267/.363/.418...even with reaching a career high in homeruns, Fowler's SLG % on the year was below his career average.  

Ahem

QuoteFowler posted BA/OBP/SLG all below his career norms this year, and his wRC+ and wOBA were also lower than they were the year before

Pay the fuck attention, Seamus.

His God-awful September drove his numbers down. But he was in full Salary Drive mode in July and August.

Do you understand how seasons work
I will vow, for the sake of peace, not to complain about David Ross between now and his first start next year- 10/26/2015

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Re: 2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross
« Reply #524 on: December 03, 2015, 12:29:31 PM »
Was Fowler really god-awful in September?  I don't recall that.  I do recall he was god-awful in May and June and into July.
Just a sloppy, undisciplined team.  Garbage.

--SKO, on the 2018 Chicago Cubs