Who's a Hall of Famer?

[PenFoe]

Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, McGwire, and Dawson.

Mine'd

Goddamnit, I hate when I agree with Chuck.

No one else for McGwire?

[Andy]

I don't think McGwire was good enough to be in the Hall of Fame.

Early in his career he was a nice player with good power, but nothing extraordinary, in fact he had some terrible batting averages .201, a couple in the .230s.  Then, he started getting hurt in '92.  All of a sudden in '96 he's enormous and starts putting up huge numbers like 52 homers in 130 games.  He obviously had even huger years in in '97, '98 and '99, but he started getting hurt again in '00 and he hit .187 in '01 and he was gone.

He was never a particularly good first baseman, he never hit more than 27 doubles in a season.  He was Adam Dunn on steroids, literally.  A really good player, who was fun to watch take batting practice.  I don't care if none of the steroid guys ever get in, but the two who I think only put up numbers remotely close to HOF caliber because of 'roids were McGwire and Sosa, and I hope they rot in baseball hell for eternity.

[PenFoe]

Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, McGwire, and Dawson.

Mine'd

Goddamnit, I hate when I agree with Chuck.

No one else for McGwire?

Oh, and Dale Murphy, too.
I'm for that guy being in.

[PenFoe]

Henderson, Raines, Blyleven, McGwire, and Dawson.

Mine'd

Goddamnit, I hate when I agree with Chuck.

No one else for McGwire?

Oh, and Dale Murphy, too.
I'm for that guy being in.

DPD.

Apologies to ChuckD.

I LOVE when I agree with him.

Chuck G?
Not so much.

[CBStew]

The following comment was posted today on a Fox Sports story about a Cardinal prospect who was suspended for drug use.  It rivals our "morans" man.  Maybe it is our "morans" man.


"Just makes me wonder why imbiciles on here consider Barry Bonds the face of Steroids."

[ChuckD]

If you don't vote for McGwire based upon the steroids, I can certainly accept that. But to say he doesn't have the numbers is ridiculous. The guy hit 583 home runs and did it at a pace faster than anyone who's ever played the game at 10.6 AB/HR. He has the 12th highest OPS+ of all time. I don't know why his hitting .260 or whatever should keep him from the HOF. He got on base 39% of the time he came to the dish. In my book, Killebrew and McCovey deserve their spots and McGwire put up similar (in some cases, better) numbers than both. And to argue against him on defensive grounds is disingenuous. Aren't most first basemen playing first base because they can hit, but don't have the glove to play third?

And you're wrong, Andy. Mark McGwire had 28 doubles in 1987.

Also, I probably wouldn't vote for Dawson based upon his stats, but I'm a huge homer and Hawk gave me some good Bonertime back before I ever knew what a boner was.

[Eli]

If you don't vote for McGwire based upon the steroids, I can certainly accept that. But to say he doesn't have the numbers is ridiculous. The guy hit 583 home runs and did it at a pace faster than anyone who's ever played the game at 10.6 AB/HR. He has the 12th highest OPS+ of all time. I don't know why his hitting .260 or whatever should keep him from the HOF. He got on base 39% of the time he came to the dish. In my book, Killebrew and McCovey deserve their spots and McGwire put up similar (in some cases, better) numbers than both. And to argue against him on defensive grounds is disingenuous. Aren't most first basemen playing first base because they can hit, but don't have the glove to play third?

And you're wrong, Andy. Mark McGwire had 28 doubles in 1987.

Also, I probably wouldn't vote for Dawson based upon his stats, but I'm a huge homer and Hawk gave me some good Bonertime back before I ever knew what a boner was.

I love it when I agree with ChuckD.

[Tonker]

If you don't vote for McGwire based upon the steroids, I can certainly accept that. But to say he doesn't have the numbers is ridiculous. The guy hit 583 home runs and did it at a pace faster than anyone who's ever played the game at 10.6 AB/HR. He has the 12th highest OPS+ of all time. I don't know why his hitting .260 or whatever should keep him from the HOF. He got on base 39% of the time he came to the dish. In my book, Killebrew and McCovey deserve their spots and McGwire put up similar (in some cases, better) numbers than both. And to argue against him on defensive grounds is disingenuous. Aren't most first basemen playing first base because they can hit, but don't have the glove to play third?

And you're wrong, Andy. Mark McGwire had 28 doubles in 1987.

Also, I probably wouldn't vote for Dawson based upon his stats, but I'm a huge homer and Hawk gave me some good Bonertime back before I ever knew what a boner was.

Hawk gave you bonertime back?

[Andre Dawson's Creek]

I totally agree McGwire should be in.  He should just have to wait because of the steroid issue.  I don't think he's waited long enough.

It's weird because I'm usually of the mindset that you're either a HOF'er or you're not.  This whole, first ballot thing is dumb.  Still, I'd make McGwire wait it out.

[Dave B]

If Big Mac does get in (and I'm not sure he will), it will create quite a dilemma for the Satanic Fowl and Satan's Minions. They have pretty much thrown him under the bus since the Congressional testimony, which was weird because they always acted as if he had come up through their system and was a lifelong Cardinal. Now, you don't hear shit about shit from them. But if he got elected to the Hall, they might start crowing again.

[Jon]

I totally agree McGwire should be in.  He should just have to wait because of the steroid issue.  I don't think he's waited long enough.

It's weird because I'm usually of the mindset that you're either a HOF'er or you're not.  This whole, first ballot thing is dumb.  Still, I'd make McGwire wait it out.

Well, I think the difference is you're not voting against him for the asinine reason of keeping it from being unanimous. It's to make him sweat it out a bit from being a roided-up cheat-monkey. Which I get and sort of agree with.

[Quality Start Machine]

If Big Mac does get in (and I'm not sure he will), it will create quite a dilemma for the Satanic Fowl and Satan's Minions. They have pretty much thrown him under the bus since the Congressional testimony, which was weird because they always acted as if he had come up through their system and was a lifelong Cardinal. Now, you don't hear shit about shit from them. But if he got elected to the Hall, they might start crowing again.

I'd like to hear his induction speech, since he doesn't want to discuss the past.

[Eli]

If Big Mac does get in (and I'm not sure he will), it will create quite a dilemma for the Satanic Fowl and Satan's Minions. They have pretty much thrown him under the bus since the Congressional testimony, which was weird because they always acted as if he had come up through their system and was a lifelong Cardinal. Now, you don't hear shit about shit from them. But if he got elected to the Hall, they might start crowing again.

I'd like to hear his induction speech, since he doesn't want to discuss the past.

That still allows him to talk about the present and future.  That's two-thirds of all possible material!

[Dave B]

yeah, he can talk about his dramatic weight-loss and his future health problems.

[motown]

The Hawk. A Hall of Famer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847

Surprising, especially since I figured there were a few others on this year's ballot who would get in before Dawson. But I like it.