Just trying to do some housekeeping around this shit-for-brains site.
For some sort of continuity's sake. (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7869.msg250200#msg250200)
I was totally expecting a poll.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 12, 2012, 09:48:50 PM
I was totally expecting a poll.
(http://images.checkoutmycards.com/zoom/fe12cefc-cda6-4b3f-a10d-004f5893e89d.jpg)
DPD.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 12, 2012, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: CT III on July 12, 2012, 09:54:48 PM
I'm sure everyone involved breathed a big sigh of relief when Jerry decided to take early retirement and focus his energy on his foundation for at-risk youth. But not before they pulled some strings to get the pedo a lump-sum pension payout and unwarranted emeritus status.
And none of that was until after someone likely dropped a few wink-wink-nudge-nudges to let other schools know not to hire him.
Boers and Bernstein, who unsurprisngly have been on this since the beginning, at one point somewhere between the end of the trial and the Freeh Report I'm pretty sure, were discussing some report or supposed situation (totally quick google search didn't help me) wherein Paterno tried strong-arming some small liberal arts college college in PA (Altoona?) into sinking expense in developing a football program, the idea being that JOEPA was setting up Sandusky--whom he knew was toxic-- to succeed elsewhere (just not around
him).
If this were true, then I'd say Paterno's done his homework in acting all Catholic Churchy re: priest child rape.
Get this freak away from me...but, make sure he goes somewhere else nice. Not to go all out on a Chip Caray limb, but I'm astounded that the damages to yet-to-be-victimized children apparently never occured to this dead dick. The more I read and hear, the more awful Joe Paterno sounds as a human being.
TPD
Bobby Bowden: TAKE DOWN THIS STATUE! (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0713-penn-state--20120713,0,3819384.story)
Really a non-story otherwise. Besides the provocative headline, Bowden's as equivocal as the Paterno family et.al. I predict that soon, all of these people will just figure out to not say anything unless they're ready to totally condemn this man (though part of me--though still disgusted--admits to enjoying what a stupid fucking asshat Matt Millen continues to prove to be). 6 decades of good deeds is not on the "other side of the ledger" from bad deeds like child rape, folks. Stop talking about what good he did now.
Quote from: CT III on July 12, 2012, 09:54:48 PM
Christ, Paterno was honestly going to let Sandusky KEEP HIS FUCKING JOB as long as JOEPA was still there, I guess because we could all rest easy knowing the Old Man was keeping an eye on Uncle Jer.
Well, according to Bill James (http://deadspin.com/5925694/someone-actually-thinks-the-freeh-report-exonerated-joe-paterno-and-its-bill-james), Paterno didn't do anything wrong.
QuoteThe Freeh reports states quite explicitly and at least six times (a) that the 1998 incident did NOT involve any criminal conduct—on the part of Sandusky or anyone else—and (b) that Paterno had forced the resignation of Sandusky before the 1998 incident occurred.
The 1998 incident was perceived AT THE TIME to involve no criminal conduct. The May 3, 1998 incident was very, very, very thoroughly investigated by at least four different agencies (University police, state police, and two different child welfare agencies), all four of which issued written reports stating that no criminal event had occurred. In retrospect, since the actions were part of a pattern of criminal conduct, it may be said that they were criminal conduct in and of themselves, but no one saw that at the time.
In any case, what EXACTLY is it that Paterno should have done? Fire him again? It is preposterous to argue, in my view, that PATERNO should have taken action after all of the people who were legally charged to take action had thoroughly examined the case and decided that no action was appropriate.
I'm off sabermetrics forever.
There must be some sort of SABR blind spot, because Posnanski was also ready to defend.
Quote from: Bort on July 13, 2012, 08:42:02 AM
There must be some sort of SABR blind spot, because Posnanski was also ready to defend.
That's because he's got a book (http://deadspin.com/5879169/a-plea-to-joe-posnanski-stop-writing-mealy+mouthed-nonsense-about-joe-paterno) coming out about Paterno in a few months.
Quote from: Eli on July 13, 2012, 08:46:44 AM
Quote from: Bort on July 13, 2012, 08:42:02 AM
There must be some sort of SABR blind spot, because Posnanski was also ready to defend.
That's because he's got a book (http://deadspin.com/5879169/a-plea-to-joe-posnanski-stop-writing-mealy+mouthed-nonsense-about-joe-paterno) coming out about Paterno in a few months.
I'm going to give James the benefit of the end of the day to radically revise or totally recant this.
Quote from: PANK! on July 13, 2012, 08:48:15 AM
Quote from: Eli on July 13, 2012, 08:46:44 AM
Quote from: Bort on July 13, 2012, 08:42:02 AM
There must be some sort of SABR blind spot, because Posnanski was also ready to defend.
That's because he's got a book (http://deadspin.com/5879169/a-plea-to-joe-posnanski-stop-writing-mealy+mouthed-nonsense-about-joe-paterno) coming out about Paterno in a few months.
I'm going to give James the benefit of the end of the day to radically revise or totally recant this.
I don't get how anyone can come out in defense of this man let alone two reasonable, intelligent people. This is just baffling.
Back to the original question, the answer is probably no. Under NCAA rules, the DP can only be given to a school that's on probation and commits a violation.
Besides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:04:04 AM
Back to the original question, the answer is probably no. Under NCAA rules, the DP can only be given to a school that's on probation and commits a violation.
Once again: I don't think this is true at all...
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 12, 2012, 10:46:56 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 12, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
Plus, I believe a school has to already be on probation to be eligible for it.
As ever, I'm no law-talking guy (and I've only really browsed the NCAA manual for a few minutes), but it doesn't look to me like that's the case...
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D1_2012_01.pdf
Page 335:
Quote19.02.2 types of violations.
19.02.2.1 Violation, Secondary. A secondary violation is a violation that is isolated or inadvertent in nature, provides or is intended to provide only a minimal recruiting, competitive or other advantage and does not include any significant impermissible benefit (including, but not limited to, an extra benefit, recruiting inducement, preferential treatment or financial aid). Multiple secondary violations by a member institution may collectively be considered as a major violation. (Revised: 1/11/94, 10/28/10)
19.02.2.2 Violation, Major. All violations other than secondary violations are major violations, specifically including those that provide an extensive recruiting or competitive advantage. (Revised: 1/11/94)
Page 338:
Quote19.5.2 Penalties for Major violations. Penalties for a major violation shall be significantly more severe than those for a secondary violation and shall be consistent with the penalty structure and guidelines used by other regulatory committees (e.g., Division I Committee on Academic Performance). The Committee on Infractions may impose one or more of the following penalties: (Revised: 4/28/11 for any institution that receives a notice of inquiry after 4/28/11)
...
(g) Prohibition against specified competition in the sport (including, but not limited to, postseason competition, invitational tournaments and exempt contests or dates of competition, such as foreign tours or contests in Alaska or Hawaii), particularly in cases in which:
(1) An involved individual remains employed at the institution;
(2) A significant competitive advantage resulted from the violation;
(3) The violation reflects a lack of institutional control, failure to monitor a program, or a violation of the cooperative principle set forth in Bylaw 32.1.4;
(4) The violation includes findings of academic fraud; or
(5) The institution is a repeat violator (as defined in Bylaw 19.5.2.1).
...
(l) Other penalties as appropriate.
A lot of power there under 'l'.
The repeat violator rule (19.5.2.1) does specifically prescribe "prohibition of some or all outside competition in the sport involved in the latest major violation for a prescribed period" as a possible penalty for a program found in violation within five years of a previous violation.
But it doesn't prevent the NCAA from also serving up a similar penalty in other situations if they deem it appropriate.
That is to say, the repeat violator rule isn't there to limit the use of the "death penalty", but rather to make it more likely in the particular case of a repeat violator.
The NCAA has pretty damn broad authority to determine what schools can participate in what NCAA sports and when.
Yes, it would be an unprecedented use of the punishment in this case. But it's also unprecedented for a sports program to cover up serial child rape for over a decade.
But the main culprits are all either fired, dead, or in jail. They'll get punishment (no bowl games for x years), but not the full SMU.
As i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AM
But the main culprits are all either fired, dead, or in jail. They'll get punishment (no bowl games for x years), but not the full SMU.
As i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
Here's how to effectively kill them: Jim Delaney can call the best lawyers money can buy from their Wacker Drive suites and summon them to Higgins and Dee rds. to look at how to remove PSU from the conference and replace them with a willing suitor (Rutgers, WVU, Louisville, Notre Dame, Iowa State, KSU, KU and Miami Ohio would all consider such a move).
Would Penn State sue? Maybe, but at what point do they just take some kind of settlement and go quietly into the good night knowing that it'll be very difficult to justify legal expenses that make up approx 80% of the GDP of Central PA, especially as litigation against them starts flowing.
I don't think the other Big Ten member schools would mind kicking out Penn State and replacing them with a school closer to the rest of the conference, with a cleaner image. They'd lose access to the Philly market, you say? Replace them with Rutgers, and you have the Philly market and you sacrifice CFiPA's center of the universe to gain a market with a couple dozen million more eyeballs.
Kick Penn State out of the Big Ten and who will take them? The Big East? The Atlantic 10 (they seem happy to have added George Mason, VCU and Butler)? The California Penal League? That's the non-NCAA nuclear option. The Big Ten will be just fine, thank you.
Quote from: PANK! on July 13, 2012, 05:06:02 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 12, 2012, 09:48:50 PM
I was totally expecting a poll.
(http://images.checkoutmycards.com/zoom/fe12cefc-cda6-4b3f-a10d-004f5893e89d.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rUyDhdZLna8/TUFzsO6SKZI/AAAAAAAAeqs/WExm3t7bj6g/s1600/Lech-Walesa.jpg)
Where does this road lead? I'm guessing all the way to the governor's office.
It would be nice to see another state have a governor go to jail.
Quote from: Brownie on July 13, 2012, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AM
But the main culprits are all either fired, dead, or in jail. They'll get punishment (no bowl games for x years), but not the full SMU.
As i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
Here's how to effectively kill them: Jim Delaney can call the best lawyers money can buy from their Wacker Drive suites and summon them to Higgins and Dee rds. to look at how to remove PSU from the conference and replace them with a willing suitor (Rutgers, WVU, Louisville, Notre Dame, Iowa State, KSU, KU and Miami Ohio would all consider such a move).
Would Penn State sue? Maybe, but at what point do they just take some kind of settlement and go quietly into the good night knowing that it'll be very difficult to justify legal expenses that make up approx 80% of the GDP of Central PA, especially as litigation against them starts flowing.
I don't think the other Big Ten member schools would mind kicking out Penn State and replacing them with a school closer to the rest of the conference, with a cleaner image. They'd lose access to the Philly market, you say? Replace them with Rutgers, and you have the Philly market and you sacrifice CFiPA's center of the universe to gain a market with a couple dozen million more eyeballs.
Kick Penn State out of the Big Ten and who will take them? The Big East? The Atlantic 10 (they seem happy to have added George Mason, VCU and Butler)? The California Penal League? That's the non-NCAA nuclear option. The Big Ten will be just fine, thank you.
The more streamlined way is to blame the dead guy and the convict, don't allow PSU into any postseason play for a few years, and profit.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 13, 2012, 10:47:43 AM
Where does this road lead? I'm guessing all the way to the governor's office.
It would be nice to see another state have a governor go to jail.
IAN would like to welcome you to Louisiana sometime.
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 10:53:11 AM
The more streamlined way is to blame the dead guy and the convict, don't allow PSU into any postseason play for a few years, and profit.
"Blame the dead guy" - okay, I'm not sure how this helps. The dead guy was in complete control of the football program and apparently had sway over the athletic director and the President of the university. I'd say that's more of a reason to demolish the football team and start over than a way around punishing it.
Also, the NCAA's crack investigative staff might turn up some other violations - it's not a huge leap in logic to figure that a school capable of covering up for a child rapist for 14 years wouldn't have any issues sweeping other stuff under the rug.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 13, 2012, 10:47:43 AM
Where does this road lead? I'm guessing all the way to the governor's office.
And maybe kinda soon (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78458.html).
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 13, 2012, 11:29:50 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 13, 2012, 10:47:43 AM
Where does this road lead? I'm guessing all the way to the governor's office.
And maybe kinda soon (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78458.html).
HATE:
Quote
Rep. Glenn Thompson, a Republican who represents State College, said he was hopeful the report's release could aid in the community's healing process.
"Everyone is still searching for answers and reassurance from the institution and individuals that failed a community and allowed for these horrific events to continue," Thompson said in a statement
I've seen this expressed several times in various places, but who gives a flying fuck about healing the Penn State community?
Quote from: CT III on July 13, 2012, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 13, 2012, 11:29:50 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 13, 2012, 10:47:43 AM
Where does this road lead? I'm guessing all the way to the governor's office.
And maybe kinda soon (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78458.html).
HATE:
Quote
Rep. Glenn Thompson, a Republican who represents State College, said he was hopeful the report's release could aid in the community's healing process.
"Everyone is still searching for answers and reassurance from the institution and individuals that failed a community and allowed for these horrific events to continue," Thompson said in a statement
I've seen this expressed several times in various places, but who gives a flying fuck about healing the Penn State community?
I don't know about you, but I'm glad the Nuremburg Trials finally took place so that the fine citizens of Germany could begin
their healing.
Expecting the NCAA to do anything appropriate with regard to PSU would be like expecting a bunch of mall security guards to stop a full invasion by the Chinese army. This is what the NCAA does http://deadspin.com/5925700/prestigious-university-penalized-for-lack-of-institutional-control-in-athletics-program
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AM
But the main culprits are all either fired, dead, or in jail.
Perhaps. But how is the fact that Spanier, Curley, Schultz and Paterno were let go after Grand Jury presentment made their continued employment untenable really responsive to the questions the NCAA has asked Penn State to respond to (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7869.msg256735#msg256735)?
Quote1. How has Penn State and/or its employees complied with the Articles of the Constitution and bylaws that are cited in this letter?
2. How has Penn State exercised institutional control over the issues identified in and related to the Grand Jury Report? Were there procedures in place that were or were not followed? What are the institution's expectations and policies to address the conduct that has been alleged in this matter upon discovery by any party?
3. Have each of the alleged persons to have been involved or have notice of the issues identified in and related to the Grand Jury Report behaved consistent with principles and requirements governing ethical conduct and honesty? If so, how? If not, how?
4. What policies and procedures does Penn State have in place to monitor, prevent and detect the issues identified in and related to the Grand Jury Report or to take disciplinary or corrective action if such behaviors are found?
The ultimate authority may have rested with those four, but these are also
institutional questions.
Were there appropriate policies and procedures in place?
http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/REPORT_FINAL_071212.pdf
Page 37:
QuoteB. Oversight and Internal Controls
1. Compliance. The University has no centralized office, officer or committee to oversee institutional compliance with laws, regulations, policies and procedures. Rather, certain departments monitor their own compliance issues, some with very limited resources. As an example, the Athletic Department has an Associate Athletic Director responsible for National Collegiate Athletic Association ("NCAA") compliance, but that group is significantly understaffed. The responsibility for Clery Act compliance previously resided with a sergeant in the University Police Department who was able to devote only minimal time to Clery Act compliance. The University Police Department appointed a full-time Clery Compliance Officer on March 26, 2012.
Pages 115-6:
QuoteThe Clery Act was passed in 1990 and became effective in 1991. From approximately 1991 until 2007, University officials delegated Clery Act compliance to the University Police Department's Crime Prevention Officer ("CPO"). The CPO was not provided any formal training before taking over the position nor does he recall receiving any Clery Act training until 2007...
In April 2009, the University's outside counsel provided information to the University about Clery Act compliance. The Director, the sergeant and others created a "draft" Clery Act policy that would have required written notification to all CSAs of their roles and responsibilities.
As of November 2011, the University's Clery Act policy was still in draft form and had not been implemented. Many University employees interviewed were unaware of their CSA status or responsibilities under the Clery Act. In an interview with the Special Investigative Counsel, Spanier said that he was not aware that the Clery Act policy had not been implemented and remained in draft form. Spanier said no one at Penn State had ever informed him that the University was not in compliance with the Clery Act. Spanier also stated that there had been no internal or external audits for Clery Act compliance. He also said he had never briefed the Board on Clery Act compliance, nor had the Board asked him questions on this issue.
(continued...)
(continuing...)
Page 121:
QuoteThe Special Investigative Counsel found that The Pennsylvania State University's ("Penn State" or "University") system for implementing the child protection policies was inadequate, but that corrective efforts are underway. While the identified deficiencies historically may not have had a direct impact on Sandusky's crimes, the issues are serious and reflect that the University has not sufficiently focused on the protection of children in the past.
Pages 123-4:
QuotePenn State staff involved with youth programs explained to the Special Investigative Counsel that some persons serving as volunteer coaches and counselors were "slipping through the cracks" and were allowed to participate in youth programs or events without appropriate clearances... A report prepared by an employee in the Outreach Finance Office in May 2010 revealed that 234 of the 735 coaches paid to work at the summer sports camps in 2009 did not have a background check completed before the start of the sport camp for which the worked...
...
The Special Investigative Counsel found only one instance where a University employee was held accountable for not complying with Policy AD39 and the background check process.
Page 127:
QuoteThe failure of President Graham B. Spanier ("Spanier"), Senior Vice President – Finance and Business ("SV-FB") Gary C. Schultz ("Schultz"), Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno ("Paterno") and Athletic Director ("AD") Timothy M. Curley ("Curley") to protect children by allowing Gerald A. Sandusky ("Sandusky") unrestricted and uncontrolled access to Pennsylvania State University ("Penn State" or "University") facilities reveals numerous individual failings, but it also reveals weaknesses of the University's culture, governance, administration, compliance policies and procedures for protecting children. It is critical for institutions and organizations that provide programs and facilities for children to institute and adhere to practices that have been found to be effective in reducing the risk of abuse. Equally important is the need for the leaders of those institutions and organizations to govern in ways that reflect the ethics and values of the entities.
Then there's the failures of the Board of Trustees. Page 101:
QuoteIn 1998 and 2001, the Penn State Board failed to exercise its oversight functions. In that time, the Board did not have regular reporting procedures or committee structures in place to ensure disclosure to the Board of major risks. Because the Board did not demand regular reporting of these risks, Spanier and other senior University officials in this period did not bring up the Sandusky investigations.
...
In 2011, the Board failed to perform its duty of inquiry, especially when it was on notice that the University was facing a major risk involving the Grand Jury investigation.
This was as much an institutional failure as an individual one.
(TPD)
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMThey'll get punishment (no bowl games for x years), but not the full SMU.
You've changed your tune awfully quickly:
Quote from: Fork on July 12, 2012, 03:07:40 PM
Quote from: CT III on July 12, 2012, 10:38:04 AM
Somewhere in all this, the NCAA opened an investigation into Penn State, correct? Is there any way the school doesn't get the death penalty? And if not, how does the NCAA justify it?
Maybe the fact that Penn St. commissioned the Freeh report helps them avoid the DP. Maybe.
But I'm thinking they're toast, but the athletes can skip the one-year waiting period to enroll elsewhere. It'll be like college free agency.
In any event, I agree with Thursday Fork.
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMAs i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
How much of a vested interest does the NCAA really have in a neutered Penn State that's lost its legendary head coach and that can't recruit worth shit? Honest question.
Quote from: PANK! on July 13, 2012, 11:56:27 AM
Quote from: CT III on July 13, 2012, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 13, 2012, 11:29:50 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 13, 2012, 10:47:43 AM
Where does this road lead? I'm guessing all the way to the governor's office.
And maybe kinda soon (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78458.html).
HATE:
Quote
Rep. Glenn Thompson, a Republican who represents State College, said he was hopeful the report's release could aid in the community's healing process.
"Everyone is still searching for answers and reassurance from the institution and individuals that failed a community and allowed for these horrific events to continue," Thompson said in a statement
I've seen this expressed several times in various places, but who gives a flying fuck about healing the Penn State community?
I don't know about you, but I'm glad the Nuremburg Trials finally took place so that the fine citizens of Germany could begin their healing.
I don't know. Millions of good people Jew and Gentile alike got completely fucked through the floor by the Nazis. And while they had their cheerleaders for sure, there were so many who were afraid to express their outrage, horror and despair. Just about every walk of life was affected by fascism. But we're talking about football fans here. They can choke on turds in purgatory for all I care.
Quote from: CT III on July 13, 2012, 11:17:54 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 10:53:11 AM
The more streamlined way is to blame the dead guy and the convict, don't allow PSU into any postseason play for a few years, and profit.
"Blame the dead guy" - okay, I'm not sure how this helps. The dead guy was in complete control of the football program and apparently had sway over the athletic director and the President of the university. I'd say that's more of a reason to demolish the football team and start over than a way around punishing it.
Also, the NCAA's crack investigative staff might turn up some other violations - it's not a huge leap in logic to figure that a school capable of covering up for a child rapist for 14 years wouldn't have any issues sweeping other stuff under the rug.
None of this is about helping. I'm only guessing the NCAA's actions.
As for demolishing the program, I'm pretty sure the program was effectively demolished the minute I got dead pool points for JoePa. Even before this story broke, everybody knew PSU football was a cult of personality, and JoePa had more influence in State College than anyone up to and including the Governor of Pennsylvania.
The fact that there's now evidence that he was active inthe cover up and continuance of molestations, it makes him an easier bulls-sys, which he should be.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
(TPD)
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMThey'll get punishment (no bowl games for x years), but not the full SMU.
You've changed your tune awfully quickly:
Quote from: Fork on July 12, 2012, 03:07:40 PM
Quote from: CT III on July 12, 2012, 10:38:04 AM
Somewhere in all this, the NCAA opened an investigation into Penn State, correct? Is there any way the school doesn't get the death penalty? And if not, how does the NCAA justify it?
Maybe the fact that Penn St. commissioned the Freeh report helps them avoid the DP. Maybe.
But I'm thinking they're toast, but the athletes can skip the one-year waiting period to enroll elsewhere. It'll be like college free agency.
In any event, I agree with Thursday Fork.
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMAs i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
How much of a vested interest does the NCAA really have in a neutered Penn State that's lost its legendary head coach and that can't recruit worth shit? Honest question.
I thought the death penalty was a no-brainer until I saw the deafening silence out of the NCAA. I'm thinking they're trying to polish the turd instead of doing what's right.
And Penn St. is still a huge money maker. Happy Valley will still be packed, the alumni still travels well, and nobody can doubt that PSU's next football game will be huge TV.
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 12:26:42 PM
As for demolishing the program, I'm pretty sure the program was effectively demolished the minute I got dead pool points for JoePa. Even before this story broke, everybody knew PSU football was a cult of personality, and JoePa had more influence in State College than anyone up to and including the Governor of Pennsylvania.
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 12:26:42 PM
And Penn St. is still a huge money maker. Happy Valley will still be packed, the alumni still travels well, and nobody can doubt that PSU's next football game will be huge TV.
???
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 12:26:42 PM
I thought the death penalty was a no-brainer until I saw the deafening silence out of the NCAA.
Even best case scenario, I don't think anyone should have expected the NCAA to dole out a punishment within 48 hours of the Freeh Report.
Look at USC for an example of the efficacy of NCAA sanctions. So they missed out on some postseason games. It made no dent whatsoever on their ability to recruit many of the best high school players nationwide. Skeptic that I am, my conclusion is that sanctions for recruiting violations function as advertising for the cheating institutions.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/recruiting
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 12:42:14 PM
Look at USC for an example of the efficacy of NCAA sanctions. So they missed out on some postseason games. It made no dent whatsoever on their ability to recruit many of the best high school players nationwide. Skeptic that I am, my conclusion is that sanctions for recruiting violations function as advertising for the cheating institutions.
Penn State and USC have no equivalency, unless you'd like to argue that potential recruits look at going to the school where Reggie Bush took gifts and cash the same way they'll look at playing at the school where the locker room shower stalls were the site of multiple rapes of pre-adolescent boys.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 12:33:45 PM
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 12:26:42 PM
As for demolishing the program, I'm pretty sure the program was effectively demolished the minute I got dead pool points for JoePa. Even before this story broke, everybody knew PSU football was a cult of personality, and JoePa had more influence in State College than anyone up to and including the Governor of Pennsylvania.
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 12:26:42 PM
And Penn St. is still a huge money maker. Happy Valley will still be packed, the alumni still travels well, and nobody can doubt that PSU's next football game will be huge TV.
???
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 12:26:42 PM
I thought the death penalty was a no-brainer until I saw the deafening silence out of the NCAA.
Even best case scenario, I don't think anyone should have expected the NCAA to dole out a punishment within 48 hours of the Freeh Report.
I was comparing quality of product to people willing to buy it. The football will suck, but there's still enough people who will deck themselves out in blue and white and yell "WE ARE PENN STATE!" regardless.
And I wasn't expecting a punishment, but at least...something. Hell, Eisenhower had two speeches prepared for D-Day. You'd think they'd have some sort of contingency plan.
This thread needs more World War II comparisons.
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 13, 2012, 12:50:56 PM
This thread needs more World War II comparisons.
Fine.
Maybe they're fueling up the plane as we speak.
(http://www.enolagay.org/images/index_center.jpg)
Quote from: Brownie on July 13, 2012, 12:55:13 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 13, 2012, 12:50:56 PM
This thread needs more World War II comparisons.
Fine.
Maybe they're fueling up the plane as we speak.
(http://www.enolagay.org/images/index_center.jpg)
Hasn't Penn State seen enough Little Boys already?
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Brownie on July 13, 2012, 12:55:13 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 13, 2012, 12:50:56 PM
This thread needs more World War II comparisons.
Fine.
Maybe they're fueling up the plane as we speak.
(http://www.enolagay.org/images/index_center.jpg)
Hasn't Penn State seen enough Little Boys already?
Thrill wins.
I wouldn't say the NCAA's response counts as deafening silence. If you read the questions they posed to Penn State, it's copied almost word for word from the Freeh report. Sort of like how the Soviets eventually used German strategic and operational concepts for mechanized warfare and combined arms operations against the Germans themselves on the Eastern Front.
I'm not certain that the NCAA will do the right thing, but it's a bit early in the process to say that it will only be a slap on the wrist. Let's see how it plays out.
Quote from: Tinker to Evers to Chance on July 13, 2012, 01:19:59 PM
I wouldn't say the NCAA's response counts as deafening silence. If you read the questions they posed to Penn State, it's copied almost word for word from the Freeh report. Sort of like how the Soviets eventually used German strategic and operational concepts for mechanized warfare and combined arms operations against the Germans themselves on the Eastern Front.
I'm not certain that the NCAA will do the right thing, but it's a bit early in the process to say that it will only be a slap on the wrist. Let's see how it plays out.
The NCAA letter was written last November when the shit hit the fan.
Presumably, Penn State was waiting for their own investigation (led by Freeh) to be completed before responding. Hence: "Penn State's response to the letter will inform our next steps, including whether or not to take further action."
Quote from: Brownie on July 13, 2012, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 12:42:14 PM
Look at USC for an example of the efficacy of NCAA sanctions. So they missed out on some postseason games. It made no dent whatsoever on their ability to recruit many of the best high school players nationwide. Skeptic that I am, my conclusion is that sanctions for recruiting violations function as advertising for the cheating institutions.
Penn State and USC have no equivalency, unless you'd like to argue that potential recruits look at going to the school where Reggie Bush took gifts and cash the same way they'll look at playing at the school where the locker room shower stalls were the site of multiple rapes of pre-adolescent boys.
I am not trying to compare the schools or the reasons for sanctions. If a recruit needs the NCAA to inform him of what happened at Penn State that recruit is so dumb that he is already a candidate for USC. What I believe is the case is that NCAA sanctions for recruiting violations may have the undesired effect of tipping recruits off about where to look to get a good deal.
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: Brownie on July 13, 2012, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 12:42:14 PM
Look at USC for an example of the efficacy of NCAA sanctions. So they missed out on some postseason games. It made no dent whatsoever on their ability to recruit many of the best high school players nationwide. Skeptic that I am, my conclusion is that sanctions for recruiting violations function as advertising for the cheating institutions.
Penn State and USC have no equivalency, unless you'd like to argue that potential recruits look at going to the school where Reggie Bush took gifts and cash the same way they'll look at playing at the school where the locker room shower stalls were the site of multiple rapes of pre-adolescent boys.
I am not trying to compare the schools or the reasons for sanctions. If a recruit needs the NCAA to inform him of what happened at Penn State that recruit is so dumb that he is already a candidate for USC. What I believe is the case is that NCAA sanctions for recruiting violations may have the undesired effect of tipping recruits off about where to look to get a good deal.
Well, if any potential football recruits are looking to get raped with impunity by an older man, I guess now they know where to shop.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: Brownie on July 13, 2012, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 12:42:14 PM
Look at USC for an example of the efficacy of NCAA sanctions. So they missed out on some postseason games. It made no dent whatsoever on their ability to recruit many of the best high school players nationwide. Skeptic that I am, my conclusion is that sanctions for recruiting violations function as advertising for the cheating institutions.
Penn State and USC have no equivalency, unless you'd like to argue that potential recruits look at going to the school where Reggie Bush took gifts and cash the same way they'll look at playing at the school where the locker room shower stalls were the site of multiple rapes of pre-adolescent boys.
I am not trying to compare the schools or the reasons for sanctions. If a recruit needs the NCAA to inform him of what happened at Penn State that recruit is so dumb that he is already a candidate for USC. What I believe is the case is that NCAA sanctions for recruiting violations may have the undesired effect of tipping recruits off about where to look to get a good deal.
Well, if any potential football recruits are looking to get raped with impunity by an older man, I guess now they know where to shop.
It is probably a small group, but I wouldn't bet against its existence.
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 02:06:58 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: Brownie on July 13, 2012, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: CBStew on July 13, 2012, 12:42:14 PM
Look at USC for an example of the efficacy of NCAA sanctions. So they missed out on some postseason games. It made no dent whatsoever on their ability to recruit many of the best high school players nationwide. Skeptic that I am, my conclusion is that sanctions for recruiting violations function as advertising for the cheating institutions.
Penn State and USC have no equivalency, unless you'd like to argue that potential recruits look at going to the school where Reggie Bush took gifts and cash the same way they'll look at playing at the school where the locker room shower stalls were the site of multiple rapes of pre-adolescent boys.
I am not trying to compare the schools or the reasons for sanctions. If a recruit needs the NCAA to inform him of what happened at Penn State that recruit is so dumb that he is already a candidate for USC. What I believe is the case is that NCAA sanctions for recruiting violations may have the undesired effect of tipping recruits off about where to look to get a good deal.
Well, if any potential football recruits are looking to get raped with impunity by an older man, I guess now they know where to shop.
It is probably a small group, but I wouldn't bet against its existence.
A small group like Stalin, Roosevelt, and Churchill at Yalta?
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
(TPD)
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMAs i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
How much of a vested interest does the NCAA really have in a neutered Penn State that's lost its legendary head coach and that can't recruit worth shit? Honest question.
According to ESPN, Penn State 2013 class in #14 in the NCAA -- better than recent efforts. Granted all of those players committed before the Freeh report came out, but is there much in the report that was shocking enough to change the mind of someone, given what was known before the report?
Quote from: Shooter on July 13, 2012, 07:34:10 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
(TPD)
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMAs i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
How much of a vested interest does the NCAA really have in a neutered Penn State that's lost its legendary head coach and that can't recruit worth shit? Honest question.
According to ESPN, Penn State 2013 class in #14 in the NCAA -- better than recent efforts. Granted all of those players committed before the Freeh report came out, but is there much in the report that was shocking enough to change the mind of someone, given what was known before the report?
Seriously, that's a pretty fucking disheartening fact, not just because the kids have stayed the course since the verdict, or even the indictment, but because recruiters from other schools weren't able to poach the shit out of them. How hard would that have been?
Dude you're still planning on going to Penn State? Seriously?
*sighs*
Look--I gotta be honest. And this is for your sake--you do what you think is best, of course. But you need to look out for yourself and I'm concerned--I'm just saying this for your sake--I'm just concerned for you that you're not looking out for yourself. Okay?
Look--if that thing gets worse over there, and you still haven't begun to make other plans, you can realistically miss out totally--and I'm not talking about here, at our school. How many slots do you really think are available right now for next Fall? You're going to be playing fucking Division III while half your incoming class at Penn State will be on TV every Saturday, playing for other D-1 schools, laughing at you.
Think about it and call me if you want, man. I really hope you make the right call, for your sake. You're a good kid and I like you. Good luck either way. I'm here if you want to talk, okay?Granted, if that shit was recorded Bruce Pearl-style, maybe it's not kosher. It's certainly manipulative--but isn't that a recruiter's job? How have kids not begun to defect since last Fall? I'm honestly wondering.
Quote from: PANK! on July 13, 2012, 07:55:00 PM
Quote from: Shooter on July 13, 2012, 07:34:10 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
(TPD)
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMAs i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
How much of a vested interest does the NCAA really have in a neutered Penn State that's lost its legendary head coach and that can't recruit worth shit? Honest question.
According to ESPN, Penn State 2013 class in #14 in the NCAA -- better than recent efforts. Granted all of those players committed before the Freeh report came out, but is there much in the report that was shocking enough to change the mind of someone, given what was known before the report?
Seriously, that's a pretty fucking disheartening fact, not just because the kids have stayed the course since the verdict, or even the indictment, but because recruiters from other schools weren't able to poach the shit out of them. How hard would that have been?
Dude you're still planning on going to Penn State? Seriously?
*sighs*
Look--I gotta be honest. And this is for your sake--you do what you think is best, of course. But you need to look out for yourself and I'm concerned--I'm just saying this for your sake--I'm just concerned for you that you're not looking out for yourself. Okay?
Look--if that thing gets worse over there, and you still haven't begun to make other plans, you can realistically miss out totally--and I'm not talking about here, at our school. How many slots do you really think are available right now for next Fall? You're going to be playing fucking Division III while half your incoming class at Penn State will be on TV every Saturday, playing for other D-1 schools, laughing at you.
Think about it and call me if you want, man. I really hope you make the right call, for your sake. You're a good kid and I like you. Good luck either way. I'm here if you want to talk, okay?
Granted, if that shit was recorded Bruce Pearl-style, maybe it's not kosher. It's certainly manipulative--but isn't that a recruiter's job? How have kids not begun to defect since last Fall? I'm honestly wondering.
You missed the part about how many black people live in DeKalb. I'm guessing a handful.
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 13, 2012, 08:28:14 PM
Quote from: PANK! on July 13, 2012, 07:55:00 PM
Quote from: Shooter on July 13, 2012, 07:34:10 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
(TPD)
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMAs i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
How much of a vested interest does the NCAA really have in a neutered Penn State that's lost its legendary head coach and that can't recruit worth shit? Honest question.
According to ESPN, Penn State 2013 class in #14 in the NCAA -- better than recent efforts. Granted all of those players committed before the Freeh report came out, but is there much in the report that was shocking enough to change the mind of someone, given what was known before the report?
Seriously, that's a pretty fucking disheartening fact, not just because the kids have stayed the course since the verdict, or even the indictment, but because recruiters from other schools weren't able to poach the shit out of them. How hard would that have been?
Dude you're still planning on going to Penn State? Seriously?
*sighs*
Look--I gotta be honest. And this is for your sake--you do what you think is best, of course. But you need to look out for yourself and I'm concerned--I'm just saying this for your sake--I'm just concerned for you that you're not looking out for yourself. Okay?
Look--if that thing gets worse over there, and you still haven't begun to make other plans, you can realistically miss out totally--and I'm not talking about here, at our school. How many slots do you really think are available right now for next Fall? You're going to be playing fucking Division III while half your incoming class at Penn State will be on TV every Saturday, playing for other D-1 schools, laughing at you.
Think about it and call me if you want, man. I really hope you make the right call, for your sake. You're a good kid and I like you. Good luck either way. I'm here if you want to talk, okay?
Granted, if that shit was recorded Bruce Pearl-style, maybe it's not kosher. It's certainly manipulative--but isn't that a recruiter's job? How have kids not begun to defect since last Fall? I'm honestly wondering.
You missed the part about how many black people live in DeKalb. I'm guessing a handful.
True story: When I was roaming the streets of DeKalb as an undegrad, there existed...another Huey...and he was black. We got to know each other a little, but probably wouldn't have at all had it not been for that similarity. Word.
Quote from: PANK! on July 13, 2012, 07:55:00 PM
Quote from: Shooter on July 13, 2012, 07:34:10 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
(TPD)
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMAs i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
How much of a vested interest does the NCAA really have in a neutered Penn State that's lost its legendary head coach and that can't recruit worth shit? Honest question.
According to ESPN, Penn State 2013 class in #14 in the NCAA -- better than recent efforts. Granted all of those players committed before the Freeh report came out, but is there much in the report that was shocking enough to change the mind of someone, given what was known before the report?
Seriously, that's a pretty fucking disheartening fact, not just because the kids have stayed the course since the verdict, or even the indictment, but because recruiters from other schools weren't able to poach the shit out of them. How hard would that have been?
Dude you're still planning on going to Penn State? Seriously?
*sighs*
Look--I gotta be honest. And this is for your sake--you do what you think is best, of course. But you need to look out for yourself and I'm concerned--I'm just saying this for your sake--I'm just concerned for you that you're not looking out for yourself. Okay?
Look--if that thing gets worse over there, and you still haven't begun to make other plans, you can realistically miss out totally--and I'm not talking about here, at our school. How many slots do you really think are available right now for next Fall? You're going to be playing fucking Division III while half your incoming class at Penn State will be on TV every Saturday, playing for other D-1 schools, laughing at you.
Think about it and call me if you want, man. I really hope you make the right call, for your sake. You're a good kid and I like you. Good luck either way. I'm here if you want to talk, okay?
Granted, if that shit was recorded Bruce Pearl-style, maybe it's not kosher. It's certainly manipulative--but isn't that a recruiter's job? How have kids not begun to defect since last Fall? I'm honestly wondering.
And the PSU recruiter would just counter with: "Hey, we're going to tear down the rape shower!"
http://deadspin.com/5925977/penn-state-to-renovate-showers-and-locker-room-where-assaults-took-place
Quote from: PANK! on July 13, 2012, 08:40:53 PM
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 13, 2012, 08:28:14 PM
Quote from: PANK! on July 13, 2012, 07:55:00 PM
Quote from: Shooter on July 13, 2012, 07:34:10 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 13, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
(TPD)
Quote from: Fork on July 13, 2012, 09:24:36 AMAs i said earlier:
QuoteBesides, both the NCAA and Big 10 have too large a vested interest in Penn State.
How much of a vested interest does the NCAA really have in a neutered Penn State that's lost its legendary head coach and that can't recruit worth shit? Honest question.
According to ESPN, Penn State 2013 class in #14 in the NCAA -- better than recent efforts. Granted all of those players committed before the Freeh report came out, but is there much in the report that was shocking enough to change the mind of someone, given what was known before the report?
Seriously, that's a pretty fucking disheartening fact, not just because the kids have stayed the course since the verdict, or even the indictment, but because recruiters from other schools weren't able to poach the shit out of them. How hard would that have been?
Dude you're still planning on going to Penn State? Seriously?
*sighs*
Look--I gotta be honest. And this is for your sake--you do what you think is best, of course. But you need to look out for yourself and I'm concerned--I'm just saying this for your sake--I'm just concerned for you that you're not looking out for yourself. Okay?
Look--if that thing gets worse over there, and you still haven't begun to make other plans, you can realistically miss out totally--and I'm not talking about here, at our school. How many slots do you really think are available right now for next Fall? You're going to be playing fucking Division III while half your incoming class at Penn State will be on TV every Saturday, playing for other D-1 schools, laughing at you.
Think about it and call me if you want, man. I really hope you make the right call, for your sake. You're a good kid and I like you. Good luck either way. I'm here if you want to talk, okay?
Granted, if that shit was recorded Bruce Pearl-style, maybe it's not kosher. It's certainly manipulative--but isn't that a recruiter's job? How have kids not begun to defect since last Fall? I'm honestly wondering.
You missed the part about how many black people live in DeKalb. I'm guessing a handful.
True story: When I was roaming the streets of DeKalb as an undegrad, there existed...another Huey...and he was black. We got to know each other a little, but probably wouldn't have at all had it not been for that similarity. Word.
Was he cramming french fries into is mouth and screaming at his diminutive cohort to PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION!!!!?
Graham Spanier may not have the cult of personality of Paterno,but it's becoming clear that he's going to be going away for a long long time (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20120715_Experts_say_Penn_State_s_former_president_was_a_lesson_in_how_not_to_lead.html?ref=twitter.com). If "failed leadership" were a criminal offense, he'd probably be up for the death penalty. With Paterno already dead, I feel Spanier will suffice as far as an outlet for frustration goes. I hope he dies a slow painful death--or a fast one involving a barbell and his rectum.
DPD.
I have no words. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto)
Quote
In January 2011, Joe Paterno learned prosecutors were investigating his longtime assistant coach Jerry Sandusky for sexually assaulting young boys. Soon, Mr. Paterno had testified before a grand jury, and the rough outlines of what would become a giant scandal had been published in a local newspaper.
That same month, Mr. Paterno, the football coach at Penn State, began negotiating with his superiors to amend his contract, with the timing something of a surprise because the contract was not set to expire until the end of 2012, according to university documents and people with knowledge of the discussions. By August, Mr. Paterno and the university's president, both of whom were by then embroiled in the Sandusky investigation, had reached an agreement.
Mr. Paterno was to be paid $3 million at the end of the 2011 season if he agreed it would be his last. Interest-free loans totaling $350,000 that the university had made to Mr. Paterno over the years would be forgiven as part of the retirement package. He would also have the use of the university's private plane and a luxury box at Beaver Stadium for him and his family to use over the next 25 years.
Quote from: Eli on July 13, 2012, 08:13:44 AM
Quote from: CT III on July 12, 2012, 09:54:48 PM
Christ, Paterno was honestly going to let Sandusky KEEP HIS FUCKING JOB as long as JOEPA was still there, I guess because we could all rest easy knowing the Old Man was keeping an eye on Uncle Jer.
Well, according to Bill James (http://deadspin.com/5925694/someone-actually-thinks-the-freeh-report-exonerated-joe-paterno-and-its-bill-james), Paterno didn't do anything wrong.
QuoteThe Freeh reports states quite explicitly and at least six times (a) that the 1998 incident did NOT involve any criminal conduct—on the part of Sandusky or anyone else—and (b) that Paterno had forced the resignation of Sandusky before the 1998 incident occurred.
The 1998 incident was perceived AT THE TIME to involve no criminal conduct. The May 3, 1998 incident was very, very, very thoroughly investigated by at least four different agencies (University police, state police, and two different child welfare agencies), all four of which issued written reports stating that no criminal event had occurred. In retrospect, since the actions were part of a pattern of criminal conduct, it may be said that they were criminal conduct in and of themselves, but no one saw that at the time.
In any case, what EXACTLY is it that Paterno should have done? Fire him again? It is preposterous to argue, in my view, that PATERNO should have taken action after all of the people who were legally charged to take action had thoroughly examined the case and decided that no action was appropriate.
I'm off sabermetrics forever.
Well, this ought to clinch it:
http://deadspin.com/5926087/bill-james-showering-with-boys-was-quite-common-in-america-40-years-ago?comment=50982908
Quote from: CT III on July 15, 2012, 06:59:30 PM
Quote from: Eli on July 13, 2012, 08:13:44 AM
Quote from: CT III on July 12, 2012, 09:54:48 PM
Christ, Paterno was honestly going to let Sandusky KEEP HIS FUCKING JOB as long as JOEPA was still there, I guess because we could all rest easy knowing the Old Man was keeping an eye on Uncle Jer.
Well, according to Bill James (http://deadspin.com/5925694/someone-actually-thinks-the-freeh-report-exonerated-joe-paterno-and-its-bill-james), Paterno didn't do anything wrong.
QuoteThe Freeh reports states quite explicitly and at least six times (a) that the 1998 incident did NOT involve any criminal conduct—on the part of Sandusky or anyone else—and (b) that Paterno had forced the resignation of Sandusky before the 1998 incident occurred.
The 1998 incident was perceived AT THE TIME to involve no criminal conduct. The May 3, 1998 incident was very, very, very thoroughly investigated by at least four different agencies (University police, state police, and two different child welfare agencies), all four of which issued written reports stating that no criminal event had occurred. In retrospect, since the actions were part of a pattern of criminal conduct, it may be said that they were criminal conduct in and of themselves, but no one saw that at the time.
In any case, what EXACTLY is it that Paterno should have done? Fire him again? It is preposterous to argue, in my view, that PATERNO should have taken action after all of the people who were legally charged to take action had thoroughly examined the case and decided that no action was appropriate.
I'm off sabermetrics forever.
Well, this ought to clinch it:
http://deadspin.com/5926087/bill-james-showering-with-boys-was-quite-common-in-america-40-years-ago?comment=50982908
This is just bewildering.
Quote from: CT III on July 15, 2012, 06:59:30 PM
Quote from: Eli on July 13, 2012, 08:13:44 AM
Quote from: CT III on July 12, 2012, 09:54:48 PM
Christ, Paterno was honestly going to let Sandusky KEEP HIS FUCKING JOB as long as JOEPA was still there, I guess because we could all rest easy knowing the Old Man was keeping an eye on Uncle Jer.
Well, according to Bill James (http://deadspin.com/5925694/someone-actually-thinks-the-freeh-report-exonerated-joe-paterno-and-its-bill-james), Paterno didn't do anything wrong.
QuoteThe Freeh reports states quite explicitly and at least six times (a) that the 1998 incident did NOT involve any criminal conduct—on the part of Sandusky or anyone else—and (b) that Paterno had forced the resignation of Sandusky before the 1998 incident occurred.
The 1998 incident was perceived AT THE TIME to involve no criminal conduct. The May 3, 1998 incident was very, very, very thoroughly investigated by at least four different agencies (University police, state police, and two different child welfare agencies), all four of which issued written reports stating that no criminal event had occurred. In retrospect, since the actions were part of a pattern of criminal conduct, it may be said that they were criminal conduct in and of themselves, but no one saw that at the time.
In any case, what EXACTLY is it that Paterno should have done? Fire him again? It is preposterous to argue, in my view, that PATERNO should have taken action after all of the people who were legally charged to take action had thoroughly examined the case and decided that no action was appropriate.
I'm off sabermetrics forever.
Well, this ought to clinch it:
http://deadspin.com/5926087/bill-james-showering-with-boys-was-quite-common-in-america-40-years-ago?comment=50982908
That's okay, Eli...
DERE'S PLENNY UH ROOM ON OUR BELOVED BANDWAGON. ITS WHEELS ARE MEATBALLS.
Finally, some Common Sense (http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html) enters the conversation.
Quote from: Fork on July 16, 2012, 07:22:14 AM
Finally, some =url=http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html]Common Sense[/url] enters the conversation.
Fork is an intarweb wizard.
http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:54:09 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 16, 2012, 07:22:14 AM
Finally, some =url=http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html]Common Sense[/url] enters the conversation.
Fork is an intarweb wizard.
http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html
DPD. The comments will also make your brain melt and drain through your earholes.
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:56:31 AM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:54:09 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 16, 2012, 07:22:14 AM
Finally, some =url=http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html]Common Sense[/url] enters the conversation.
Fork is an intarweb wizard.
http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html
DPD. The comments will also make your brain melt and drain through your earholes.
The comments are beyond, ... beyond ... I can't even come up with a comparison.
Quote from: CBStew on July 16, 2012, 09:34:53 AM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:56:31 AM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:54:09 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 16, 2012, 07:22:14 AM
Finally, some =url=http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html]Common Sense[/url] enters the conversation.
Fork is an intarweb wizard.
http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html
DPD. The comments will also make your brain melt and drain through your earholes.
The comments are beyond, ... beyond ... I can't even come up with a comparison.
Quote from: Caroline said...
Joe does not have "victims." Jerry Sandusky does. Case & point.
July 14, 2012 11:08 AM
Case & point!
Is that like "game, set and match"? If that person's an alum*, then that's proof enough that they should just burn the whole school down.
*I doubt it's an alum
Because if there's one thing this circus needed, it's a fourth ring (http://deadspin.com/penn-state-scandal/).
Quote from: Fork on July 16, 2012, 11:01:16 AM
Because if there's one thing this circus needed, it's a fourth ring (http://deadspin.com/penn-state-scandal/).
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:54:09 AM
Fork is an intarweb wizard.
http://deadspin.com/5926296/the-paterno-family-will-conduct-their-own-non+biased-investigation
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 16, 2012, 11:21:34 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 16, 2012, 11:01:16 AM
Because if there's one thing this circus needed, it's a fourth ring (http://deadspin.com/penn-state-scandal/).
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:54:09 AM
Fork is an intarweb wizard.
http://deadspin.com/5926296/the-paterno-family-will-conduct-their-own-non+biased-investigation
Why don't they save their money? The only people who will believe the results of an investigation paid for by the family are the Paterno defenders who already believe that Paterno was ignorant of the whole thing.
I know nothing about this website, but it suggests the Dept of Education could make itself useful and do what the NCAA might not (http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2012/07/title-ix-could-lead-to-penn-state-death-penalty/). How about it, Arne?
Quote from: CBStew on July 16, 2012, 09:34:53 AM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:56:31 AM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:54:09 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 16, 2012, 07:22:14 AM
Finally, some =url=http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html]Common Sense[/url] enters the conversation.
Fork is an intarweb wizard.
http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2012/07/red-flags-and-personal-fouls-dishonest.html
DPD. The comments will also make your brain melt and drain through your earholes.
The comments are beyond, ... beyond ... I can't even come up with a comparison.
The Shiite wing of the Penn State fan base has been something to behold the last few months. Hoo boy.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 16, 2012, 11:21:34 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 16, 2012, 11:01:16 AM
Because if there's one thing this circus needed, it's a fourth ring (http://deadspin.com/penn-state-scandal/).
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 16, 2012, 08:54:09 AM
Fork is an intarweb wizard.
http://deadspin.com/5926296/the-paterno-family-will-conduct-their-own-non+biased-investigation
Sandusky thinks, "shit, why didn't I do that?"
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
Someone apparently hired a plane to tow a banner over State College today...
(http://i.imgur.com/EXi2a.jpg)
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 17, 2012, 02:04:05 PM
Someone apparently hired a plane to tow a banner over State College today...
(http://i.imgur.com/EXi2a.jpg)
Surrender, Dorothy.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
The University of Pittsburgh resents the inference.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 05:28:57 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
The University of Pittsburgh resents the inference.
We'll send ravens to the Land of Three Rivers to warn the townsfolk. They had best move swiftly.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
I can't help it. It's like slowing down to look at a really bad traffic accident. I can't look away.
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
My new favorite: PSU should hire Hootie Johnson as its president, because Hootie would fix everything while giving the rest of the world the middle-finger. Left unsaid, is that PSU would become an all-male school, even more lily-white, and admit fewer rich white guys than the Citadel.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
Said the guy who reads comments on major news sites.
Quote from: R-V on July 18, 2012, 08:45:21 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
Said the guy who reads comments on major news sites.
You damn near FACED me on this one. There's a reason it's called "Gilling the comments."
Quote from: morpheus on July 18, 2012, 08:49:38 AM
Quote from: R-V on July 18, 2012, 08:45:21 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
Said the guy who reads comments on major news sites.
You damn near FACED me on this one. There's a reason it's called "Gilling the comments."
I believe this is precisely what makes Gil qualified to warn others.
Quote from: PANK! on July 18, 2012, 09:46:25 AM
Quote from: morpheus on July 18, 2012, 08:49:38 AM
Quote from: R-V on July 18, 2012, 08:45:21 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
Said the guy who reads comments on major news sites.
You damn near FACED me on this one. There's a reason it's called "Gilling the comments."
I believe this is precisely what makes Gil qualified to warn others.
I thought Gil was the warning.
Quote from: Fork on July 18, 2012, 09:49:14 AM
Quote from: PANK! on July 18, 2012, 09:46:25 AM
Quote from: morpheus on July 18, 2012, 08:49:38 AM
Quote from: R-V on July 18, 2012, 08:45:21 AM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 17, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on July 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 17, 2012, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on July 17, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
Hours of good, and by "good" I mean appalling" reading at Penn State's Rival board--here's one example of how someone proposes a punishment that would be grossly ineffective and not nearly enough and gets rebuffed by those who have OD'd on the blue and white kool-aid at least since they were old enough to be touched by Saundusky:
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2 (http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=156331354&mid=156331354&sid=890&style=2)
My favorite claims are "This is not a football issue" and "Sandusky was not a coach."
I'd argue that, technically, it isn't really a football issue. It's much, much bigger than that. It reached all the way to the university president and might include members of the Board of Trustees.
And the cover-up didn't start to protect the football team. It started to protect Joe Paterno's image. Reading the PSU messageboards it's clear that most of those folks are more concerned with clearing St. Joe than protecting the school or the football program. All that's missing is the Kool-Aid.
There's your first mistake.
Nuking the entire state would obviate the need to deal with any of PSU's bullshit at this point.
Said the guy who reads comments on major news sites.
You damn near FACED me on this one. There's a reason it's called "Gilling the comments."
I believe this is precisely what makes Gil qualified to warn others.
I thought Gil was the warning.
The canary in the coal mine. I read them so you don't have to.
No death penalty from the NCAA but tough sanctions anyway? (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says)
Quote from: Brownie on July 22, 2012, 01:52:21 PM
No death penalty from the NCAA but tough sanctions anyway? (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says)
QuoteThe Penn State trustees' hope that the statue's removal might send a positive message was trumped by the NCAA, which had already decided.
"Emmert has been given full reign by the pansy presidents (at other universities) to make his own decision," said the trustee, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "He has been given the authority to impose these unprecedented sanctions. It's horrible."
Way to help burnish that tarnished public image, unnamed Penn State trustee.
(http://i.imgur.com/8cwR8.png)
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 22, 2012, 06:52:34 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/8cwR8.png)
Now
there's an image in need of no improving.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 22, 2012, 06:52:34 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/8cwR8.png)
I set this to be my computer's desktop background today. It'll probably remain until Week 1 when I replace it with the Bears' schedule.
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 22, 2012, 11:49:06 PM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 22, 2012, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 22, 2012, 06:52:34 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/8cwR8.png)
Now there's an image in need of no improving.
You're half right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjHjm5sRqSA
[
Edit.--ThisdoesnotexistThisdoesnotexistYouaredevilpeopledonotdothingslikethis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6qWK2aJs18).]
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
I've never been happier about being wrong. The vacated wins was outstanding.
I-L-L ..... I-N-I
How many games did PSU win against Auburn, IL, High School during that period?
Quote from: Fork on July 23, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
I've never been happier about being wrong. The vacated wins was outstanding.
Except you weren't really all that wrong, insofar as the future interests of the association and conference were for the most part protected.
It's just that they managed to square the circle of acting tough without killing the golden goose.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 23, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
I've never been happier about being wrong. The vacated wins was outstanding.
Except you weren't really all that wrong, insofar as the future interests of the association and conference were for the most part protected.
It's just that they managed to square the circle of acting tough without killing the golden goose.
I was expecting far less, out of fear of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 23, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
I've never been happier about being wrong. The vacated wins was outstanding.
Except you weren't really all that wrong, insofar as the future interests of the association and conference were for the most part protected.
It's just that they managed to square the circle of acting tough without killing the golden goose.
That's Penn State's job. If they want to make right-minded alumni proud of their school, they'd do what U of C did decades and kill football.
Quote from: Tonker on July 23, 2012, 08:32:36 AM
How many games did PSU win against Auburn, IL, High School during that period?
TOO OLD!
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 08:47:49 AM
If they want to make right-minded alumni proud of their school...
I laughed.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:50:08 AM
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 08:47:49 AM
If they want to make right-minded alumni proud of their school...
I laughed.
I'm sure there were definitely more than few alums that were doing faceplams at all of the maudlin statue idolatry on Friday and before. Problem is, these people are probably too afraid to say anything because the whole culture has grown so pervasive.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 23, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
I've never been happier about being wrong. The vacated wins was outstanding.
Except you weren't really all that wrong, insofar as the future interests of the association and conference were for the most part protected.
It's just that they managed to square the circle of acting tough without killing the golden goose.
They suffocated the golden goose. This program will not be back. Remember: the DOE has yet to take corrective action re: the Clery Report, and they could fine them millions more. A $60MM fine on top of the civil liabilty on top of any DOE sanctions, in which the football program's misdeed affect what is supposed to be the core mission of the university, on top of having a shit team for the next 5-7 years, on top of any sanctions Jim Delaney chooses to levy with his new powers, and why would anyone want to continue this charade? Oh, and by the way, all players on Penn State have been granted free agency.
It's over. This is worse than SMU. SMU hasn't been competitive on the big stage since. Want another comparison? How about Judge Landis' ban of 8 White Sox players in 1920. It took them nearly 35 years to be consistently competitive again. Or UNLV? Have they been able to recover post-Tarkanian to any prominence? Sure, they're a fun team to watch at 10 pm on a Wednesday night against St. Mary's, and they'll make the field of 64 4 years out of 10, but their days of a powerhouse are over.
I suppose Penn State will sue and try to get injunctions slapped on some of the sanctions, but they won't stop players from transferring, and I don't know how long they'll dig their heels in on this.
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 08:52:59 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:50:08 AM
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 08:47:49 AM
If they want to make right-minded alumni proud of their school...
I laughed.
I'm sure there were definitely more than few alums that were doing faceplams at all of the maudlin statue idolatry on Friday and before. Problem is, these people are probably too afraid to say anything because the whole culture has grown so pervasive.
Pervasive? Nah.
(http://www.trbimg.com/img-500c45e1/turbine/mc-pictures-penn-state-removes-paterno-statue--010/600)
Last QB to win at PSU: Mike McQuery
Quote from: BH on July 23, 2012, 09:06:31 AM
Last QB to win at PSU: Mike McQuery
Is he related to Mike McQueary?
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 09:06:21 AM
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 08:52:59 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:50:08 AM
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 08:47:49 AM
If they want to make right-minded alumni proud of their school...
I laughed.
I'm sure there were definitely more than few alums that were doing faceplams at all of the maudlin statue idolatry on Friday and before. Problem is, these people are probably too afraid to say anything because the whole culture has grown so pervasive.
Pervasive? Nah.
(http://www.trbimg.com/img-500c45e1/turbine/mc-pictures-penn-state-removes-paterno-statue--010/600)
You know what? I can lampoon this 70-year-old juvenile all day, but fuck him. This was Sunday morning as the statue of Paterno was pulled down (by the way, the fetishization of statues is disgusting, especially in sports). But this was Sunday morning in Pennsylvania, as this man mourned a man he never knew who lived a very charmed, long life.
The same weekend, people also mourned in Colorado.
Fuck him.
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 23, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
I've never been happier about being wrong. The vacated wins was outstanding.
Except you weren't really all that wrong, insofar as the future interests of the association and conference were for the most part protected.
It's just that they managed to square the circle of acting tough without killing the golden goose.
They suffocated the golden goose. This program will not be back. Remember: the DOE has yet to take corrective action re: the Clery Report, and they could fine them millions more. A $60MM fine on top of the civil liabilty on top of any DOE sanctions, in which the football program's misdeed affect what is supposed to be the core mission of the university, on top of having a shit team for the next 5-7 years, on top of any sanctions Jim Delaney chooses to levy with his new powers, and why would anyone want to continue this charade? Oh, and by the way, all players on Penn State have been granted free agency.
It's over. This is worse than SMU. SMU hasn't been competitive on the big stage since. Want another comparison? How about Judge Landis' ban of 8 White Sox players in 1920. It took them nearly 35 years to be consistently competitive again. Or UNLV? Have they been able to recover post-Tarkanian to any prominence? Sure, they're a fun team to watch at 10 pm on a Wednesday night against St. Mary's, and they'll make the field of 64 4 years out of 10, but their days of a powerhouse are over.
I suppose Penn State will sue and try to get injunctions slapped on some of the sanctions, but they won't stop players from transferring, and I don't know how long they'll dig their heels in on this.
From PSU's response... (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/23/source-penn-state-to-be-hit-with-fines-in-excess-of-30-million/?hpt=hp_t1)
QuoteAgainst this backdrop, Penn State accepts the penalties and corrective actions announced today by the NCAA. With today's announcement and the action it requires of us, the University takes a significant step forward.
QuoteSince receiving Judge Freeh's preliminary recommendations in January, the University has instituted several reforms. Today we accept the terms of the consent decree imposed by the NCAA. As Penn State embarks upon change and progress, this announcement helps to further define our course. It is with this compass that we will strive for a better tomorrow
.
I think they've got to take this and move on.
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 09:13:00 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 09:06:21 AM
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 08:52:59 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:50:08 AM
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 08:47:49 AM
If they want to make right-minded alumni proud of their school...
I laughed.
I'm sure there were definitely more than few alums that were doing faceplams at all of the maudlin statue idolatry on Friday and before. Problem is, these people are probably too afraid to say anything because the whole culture has grown so pervasive.
Pervasive? Nah.
(http://www.trbimg.com/img-500c45e1/turbine/mc-pictures-penn-state-removes-paterno-statue--010/600)
You know what? I can lampoon this 70-year-old juvenile all day, but fuck him. This was Sunday morning as the statue of Paterno was pulled down (by the way, the fetishization of statues is disgusting, especially in sports). But this was Sunday morning in Pennsylvania, as this man mourned a man he never knew who lived a very charmed, long life.
The same weekend, people also mourned in Colorado.
Fuck him.
Just know that anybody who spends one second defending the Culture of Paterno is defending child rape, pure and simple. It's best to shut up and forget about the whole thing.
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 23, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
I've never been happier about being wrong. The vacated wins was outstanding.
Except you weren't really all that wrong, insofar as the future interests of the association and conference were for the most part protected.
It's just that they managed to square the circle of acting tough without killing the golden goose.
They suffocated the golden goose. This program will not be back. Remember: the DOE has yet to take corrective action re: the Clery Report, and they could fine them millions more. A $60MM fine on top of the civil liabilty on top of any DOE sanctions, in which the football program's misdeed affect what is supposed to be the core mission of the university, on top of having a shit team for the next 5-7 years, on top of any sanctions Jim Delaney chooses to levy with his new powers, and why would anyone want to continue this charade? Oh, and by the way, all players on Penn State have been granted free agency.
It's over. This is worse than SMU. SMU hasn't been competitive on the big stage since. Want another comparison? How about Judge Landis' ban of 8 White Sox players in 1920. It took them nearly 35 years to be consistently competitive again. Or UNLV? Have they been able to recover post-Tarkanian to any prominence? Sure, they're a fun team to watch at 10 pm on a Wednesday night against St. Mary's, and they'll make the field of 64 4 years out of 10, but their days of a powerhouse are over.
I suppose Penn State will sue and try to get injunctions slapped on some of the sanctions, but they won't stop players from transferring, and I don't know how long they'll dig their heels in on this.
An opposing view...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2012/07/23/sanctions-against-penn-state-for-sex-scandal-are-too-lenient/
QuoteWe valued Penn State's football team at $69 million in 2007, 16th in the nation. Two years later their value had increased to $99 million, in third place. And last year the Nittany Lions were worth $100 million, behind only the University of Texas and Notre Dame. Not many assets were appreciating at that pace during the recession. The juggernaut was not about to slow down. Department of Education data for the 2010-11 year (latest available, released after our last valuation ranking) shows that under the late Joe Paterno the Nittany Lions were an economic powerhouse: $72.7 million in revenue versus operating expenses of $19.5 million. That $53 million profit is even more staggering when you realize that in aggregate the rest of the school's athletic program lost money.
What will the hit to Penn State's football program from the NCAA's penalties?
In 2010 the NCAA meted out penalties against the University of Southern California's football program, including barring it from bowl games in the 2010 and 2011 seasons. The penalties given to USC were the harshest since the NCAA issued the "death penalty" to the Southern Methodist football program in 1986, shutting it down for two years. In our most recent valuation of college football teams last December, USC had fallen 9% over two years but was still worth $62 million, and worth 17% more than the $53 million we valued the football team at in 2007. Moreover, U.S. Department of Education data shows that USC's football program is still incredibly profitable, generating an operating profit of $11.7 million during the 2010-11 fiscal year (latest available, but released after our latest valuations) on revenue of $31.1 million.
USC's penalties were less harsh than Penn State's, most notably the school only had to pay $5,000 fine. But the value created during just the past several years of Jerry Sandusky's reign of terror more than offsets the reduction in value from a loss of less than one year's worth of the football program's revenue. I can see Penn State dropping in value to $80 million or so in our college football team ranking. But in five years they will be back well above $100 million. Not much of a price to pay for what was going on at Happy Valley the past two decades.
Guess we'll have to see how it plays out.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 09:25:32 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 23, 2012, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: Fork on July 23, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
OK, so it's not the death penalty, but on the scale of death penalty (SMU), Club Fed (USC) or life in prison (UNLV), Penn State is spending time in John McCain's Vietcong POW camp for a long time.
$60 MM fine
loss of 20 scholarships/year for four years
No bowl games for four years
Indiana picks up 11 wins since 1998!
I've never been happier about being wrong. The vacated wins was outstanding.
Except you weren't really all that wrong, insofar as the future interests of the association and conference were for the most part protected.
It's just that they managed to square the circle of acting tough without killing the golden goose.
They suffocated the golden goose. This program will not be back. Remember: the DOE has yet to take corrective action re: the Clery Report, and they could fine them millions more. A $60MM fine on top of the civil liabilty on top of any DOE sanctions, in which the football program's misdeed affect what is supposed to be the core mission of the university, on top of having a shit team for the next 5-7 years, on top of any sanctions Jim Delaney chooses to levy with his new powers, and why would anyone want to continue this charade? Oh, and by the way, all players on Penn State have been granted free agency.
It's over. This is worse than SMU. SMU hasn't been competitive on the big stage since. Want another comparison? How about Judge Landis' ban of 8 White Sox players in 1920. It took them nearly 35 years to be consistently competitive again. Or UNLV? Have they been able to recover post-Tarkanian to any prominence? Sure, they're a fun team to watch at 10 pm on a Wednesday night against St. Mary's, and they'll make the field of 64 4 years out of 10, but their days of a powerhouse are over.
I suppose Penn State will sue and try to get injunctions slapped on some of the sanctions, but they won't stop players from transferring, and I don't know how long they'll dig their heels in on this.
An opposing view...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2012/07/23/sanctions-against-penn-state-for-sex-scandal-are-too-lenient/
Guess we'll have to see how it plays out.
Well the B1G will have a conference call in 20 minutes to react to all this. Per Crain's, losing PSU's bowl revenue will hurt all member teams as it is unlikely another school will take Penn State's place in a bowl game permanently. Maybe PSU is out of the revenue sharing for the 4 years?
Yeah, this is significantly worse than the death penalty. Penn State is now the equivalent of Illinois State playing in a major football conference. The alumni get to watch their precious football team get pummeled every game for at least half a decade and the guy they worshipped no longer holds the stupid, meaningless record that led them to keep him on for a decade after he'd stopped being an effective coach anyway. Drew Magary and some others have made great points about how this doesn't necessarily punish the people directly responsible, but at this point I think it's worth it just to see the fanbase get what's coming to em.
Quote from: SKO on July 23, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
Yeah, this is significantly worse than the death penalty. Penn State is now the equivalent of Illinois State playing in a major football conference. The alumni get to watch their precious football team get pummeled every game for at least half a decade and the guy they worshipped no longer holds the stupid, meaningless record that led them to keep him on for a decade after he'd stopped being an effective coach anyway. Drew Magary and some others have made great points about how this doesn't necessarily punish the people directly responsible, but at this point I think it's worth it just to see the fanbase get what's coming to em.
So now the Big Ten announced Penn State cannot share in any postseason revenues, so this is not as bad a hit for the rest of the Big Ten schools. Plus, figure that the Nittany Lions could be an automatic win even for Indiana for the next 5-10 years. So, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan State, Ohio State and Purdue all get a doormat. For someone like Purdue, that extra win could help them get into a better-tier bowl game. But for someone like Indiana, Penn State could be the extra win that sends them to the bowlgamenoonereallywatchesbutisonasyoudrinkandeatandbemerrytheweekbetweenChristmasandNewYears Bowl. And then the revenue that's shared is only split 11 ways.
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 10:23:22 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 23, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
Yeah, this is significantly worse than the death penalty. Penn State is now the equivalent of Illinois State playing in a major football conference. The alumni get to watch their precious football team get pummeled every game for at least half a decade and the guy they worshipped no longer holds the stupid, meaningless record that led them to keep him on for a decade after he'd stopped being an effective coach anyway. Drew Magary and some others have made great points about how this doesn't necessarily punish the people directly responsible, but at this point I think it's worth it just to see the fanbase get what's coming to em.
So now the Big Ten announced Penn State cannot share in any postseason revenues, so this is not as bad a hit for the rest of the Big Ten schools. Plus, figure that the Nittany Lions could be an automatic win even for Indiana for the next 5-10 years. So, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan State, Ohio State and Purdue all get a doormat. For someone like Purdue, that extra win could help them get into a better-tier bowl game. But for someone like Indiana, Penn State could be the extra win that sends them to the bowlgamenoonereallywatchesbutisonasyoudrinkandeatandbemerrytheweekbetweenChristmasandNewYears Bowl. And then the revenue that's shared is only split 11 ways.
That's a nice thought regarding Purdue but I fear they've slipped into the latter category for now.
I think the lede is buried here. The NCAA's penalities include requiring Penn State to enact each of the recommendations in the Freeh report. Those recommendations include in effect blowing up the board of trustees and replacing it with one that is not insular and incompetent.
If that happens (and I'm dubious, but hopeful it will) it might lead to the whole 'cult of Penn State' thing disappearing and perhaps the University running the athletic program instead of vice versa.
Quote from: Brownie on July 23, 2012, 10:23:22 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 23, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
Yeah, this is significantly worse than the death penalty. Penn State is now the equivalent of Illinois State playing in a major football conference. The alumni get to watch their precious football team get pummeled every game for at least half a decade and the guy they worshipped no longer holds the stupid, meaningless record that led them to keep him on for a decade after he'd stopped being an effective coach anyway. Drew Magary and some others have made great points about how this doesn't necessarily punish the people directly responsible, but at this point I think it's worth it just to see the fanbase get what's coming to em.
So now the Big Ten announced Penn State cannot share in any postseason revenues, so this is not as bad a hit for the rest of the Big Ten schools. Plus, figure that the Nittany Lions could be an automatic win even for Indiana for the next 5-10 years. So, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan State, Ohio State and Purdue all get a doormat. For someone like Purdue, that extra win could help them get into a better-tier bowl game. But for someone like Indiana, Penn State could be the extra win that sends them to the bowlgamenoonereallywatchesbutisonasyoudrinkandeatandbemerrytheweekbetweenChristmasandNewYears Bowl. And then the revenue that's shared is only split 11 ways.
I thought for a second that the vacated wins mean that Illinois might have avoided a couple winless seasons - but apparently vacated wins don't result in gained wins for the teams on the other end of those.
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 22, 2012, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 22, 2012, 06:52:34 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/8cwR8.png)
Now there's an image in need of no improving.
Not to steal Morph's job, but I tried to make a few small improvements.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/j9t5on.jpg)
Quote from: Eli on July 23, 2012, 10:40:39 AM
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 22, 2012, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: Gilgamesh on July 22, 2012, 06:52:34 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/8cwR8.png)
Now there's an image in need of no improving.
Not to steal Morph's job, but I tried to make a few small improvements.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/j9t5on.jpg)
Okay... I'm not going to go so far as to say the photo was improved. But it did make me laugh quite a bit.
Quote from: PANK! on July 23, 2012, 09:09:07 AM
Quote from: BH on July 23, 2012, 09:06:31 AM
Last QB to win at PSU: Mike McQuery
Is he related to Mike McQueary?
The last d-coordinator to win a game at Penn State: Jerry Sandusky.
Hopefully the defections get bad enough that the Lions have to dress Pedobear at WR, assuming he'll be appearing at every PSU game this season.
Quote from: SKO on July 23, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
Yeah, this is significantly worse than the death penalty. Penn State is now the equivalent of Illinois State playing in a major football conference. The alumni get to watch their precious football team get pummeled every game for at least half a decade and the guy they worshipped no longer holds the stupid, meaningless record that led them to keep him on for a decade after he'd stopped being an effective coach anyway. Drew Magary and some others have made great points about how this doesn't necessarily punish the people directly responsible, but at this point I think it's worth it just to see the fanbase get what's coming to em.
People want to look at Penn State football as this splintered mass of individuals and reflect on how this hurts each of them in their own personal little ways, despite the fact that many of those people did nothing wrong.
Well sir, that is bullshit.
Penn State Football is a THING. It's a living, breathing all-consuming Thing. It had to be destroyed. I'm still pissed the NCAA didn't use the death penalty here, but I'll take what I can get.
For some reason, the parallel that keeps coming to me is the Arthur Anderson scandal. The acts of a few unscrupulous assholes got AA indicted and essentially destroyed it. A firm of 85,000 was destroyed over the actions of a few. And, like the major D-I programs are sure to do here, the rest of the Big 5 stood by while Anderson took its medicine, then swept in, picked the carcass clean and went back to business as usual. And while the likelyhood of that kind of punishment ever being meted out again is remote, they've still got to operate with the memory of AA in the backs of their minds.
So what am I saying? That this probably isn't fair to a lot of people. Ex-players, coaches, alumni who were never involved in any of this now have a stain on their resumes and have to pay the price for it.
But if it also means that if Nick Saban discovers he's got a child molester or a drug dealer or some other shitbag on his coaching staff or in his program that he's going to look at Penn State Football and turn that asshole in at the next tollbooth well...it's worth it.
Drug dealers!
A couple thoughts to ponder when people point out $60 million is one year net income of the PSU football program
1) The Athletic Department ran in the red last year despite having one of the most profitable football programs.
2) Expenses will go up (compliance won't be cheap). Income will go way down (who's going to want to waste a Saturday at State College to watch a sad sack team)?
3) If the football program is subsidizing the rest of the sports, how will they be able to support them?
Going DIII like U of C makes a lot of sense. I asked rhetorically what value Penn State brings to the Big Ten. What value does the Big Ten bring Penn State at this point? Travel expenses would be a lot better in a league with Slippery Rock and Indiana Pa.
Quote from: Brownie on July 24, 2012, 09:54:28 AM
A couple thoughts to ponder when people point out $60 million is one year net income of the PSU football program
1) The Athletic Department ran in the red last year despite having one of the most profitable football programs.
2) Expenses will go up (compliance won't be cheap). Income will go way down (who's going to want to waste a Saturday at State College to watch a sad sack team)?
3) If the football program is subsidizing the rest of the sports, how will they be able to support them?
Going DIII like U of C makes a lot of sense. I asked rhetorically what value Penn State brings to the Big Ten. What value does the Big Ten bring Penn State at this point? Travel expenses would be a lot better in a league with Slippery Rock and Indiana Pa.
Also, aren't they going to get hit with a bunch of civil suits?
Quote from: Brownie on July 24, 2012, 09:54:28 AM
2) Expenses will go up (compliance won't be cheap). Income will go way down (who's going to want to waste a Saturday at State College to watch a sad sack team)?
Intrepid Readers: 103,000 fansWE ARE.
Quote from: Slaky on July 24, 2012, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 24, 2012, 09:54:28 AM
A couple thoughts to ponder when people point out $60 million is one year net income of the PSU football program
1) The Athletic Department ran in the red last year despite having one of the most profitable football programs.
2) Expenses will go up (compliance won't be cheap). Income will go way down (who's going to want to waste a Saturday at State College to watch a sad sack team)?
3) If the football program is subsidizing the rest of the sports, how will they be able to support them?
Going DIII like U of C makes a lot of sense. I asked rhetorically what value Penn State brings to the Big Ten. What value does the Big Ten bring Penn State at this point? Travel expenses would be a lot better in a league with Slippery Rock and Indiana Pa.
Also, aren't they going to get hit with a bunch of civil suits?
Yes. I heard they're going to try to settle/pay them as quickly as possible too in order to close the book and avoid protracted legal battles that will end up costing them even more. $60 Million might be an insignificant number but it's only one piece of the pie.
Quote from: Fork on July 24, 2012, 10:01:28 AM
Quote from: Brownie on July 24, 2012, 09:54:28 AM
2) Expenses will go up (compliance won't be cheap). Income will go way down (who's going to want to waste a Saturday at State College to watch a sad sack team)?
Intrepid Readers: 103,000 fans
WE ARE.
Quote2012 Football Season Tickets
Select your section
BLACK ZONE $600 PER SEAT DONATION REQ'D
$385.00 Adult
RED ZONE $400 PER SEAT DONATION REQ'D
$385.00 Adult
Blue Chairback $100 Per Seat donation Req'd
$448.00 Adult
BLUE ZONE $100 PER SEAT DONATION REQ'D
$385.00 Adult
Pricing for single game tickets has changed for the coming year to better reflect the per game pricing of a season ticket, which beginning with the 2011 season incorporated a Nittany Lion Club per seat donation amount. Those amounts, based on seat locations in Beaver Stadium, have been applied to the per game ticket price in order to protect the value to all season ticket holders and the NLC priority point system. The price for Blue Zone public single game tickets remains the same as the last two seasons.
The 2012 public single game ticket prices are:
Green Zone (lower midfield) - Not available Black Zone (between 30-yard lines) - $140 per ticket Red Zone (10 to 30-yard lines) - $110 per ticket Blue Zone (end zones to 10-yard-lines) - $70 (bench) and $74 (chairback) per ticket
"This pricing allows us to offer tickets to the general public in all seating areas while assuring that the season ticket and donation commitments that our Nittany Lion Club members have made are not devalued or compromised," explained Associate Athletic Director Greg Myford. "This change greatly highlights the value of joining the Nittany Lion Club and being a season ticket holder, while still offering single game tickets to the public."
The bolded part mad me laugh.
EDIT:
Quote2012 Club Seat Pricing
(Per Seat)
Lease Term: Per Year OR Pre-payment Total
The 10 year lease should read: $1,320.00 with the prepayment total remaining the same at $9,180.00
The 7 year lease should read: $1,510.00 with the prepayment total remaining the same at $8,085.00
The 5 year lease should read: $1,710.00 with the prepayment total remaining the same at $7,000.00
A Nittany Lion Club contribution and the cost of tickets are additional charges
All annual payments will be subject to a 2% increase
Ouch.
I have little doubt that these morons will pack the place and wait out the years until the football team is back to prominence. It may wane a little after a few seasons but this year the fans are going to off the charts annoying, loud and sickeningly use what's happened as some kind of fucked up motivation to cheer harder than ever before.
What a terrible place.
Quote from: Slaky on July 24, 2012, 11:07:46 AM
I have little doubt that these morons will pack the place and wait out the years until the football basketball team is back to prominence. It may wane a little after a few seasons but this year the fans are going to off the charts annoying, loud and sickeningly use what's happened as some kind of fucked up motivation to cheer harder than ever before.
What a terrible place.
Bob Knight and Indiana'd.
Quote from: Internet Apex on July 24, 2012, 11:12:42 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 24, 2012, 11:07:46 AM
I have little doubt that these morons will pack the place and wait out the years until the football basketball team is back to prominence. It may wane a little after a few seasons but this year the fans are going to off the charts annoying, loud and sickeningly use what's happened as some kind of fucked up motivation to cheer harder than ever before.
What a terrible place.
Bob Knight and Indiana'd.
Not until after Indiana's win over UK in December were IU basketball tickets hard to come by. Seriously, they might come out for the first couple of games. But after mind-numbing after mind-numbing defeat, especially to teams that should be a bye to them (like IU), they'll not want to invest a whole day in State College moaning about how the NCAA fucked them over burgers and bad beer when they can stay home and do the same.
Hell, the Cubs are doing a massive rebuilding and apparently you can buy bleacher seats to this weekend's games vs. St. Louis in the 20s. And the Cubs are suffering from having a lot of players being bad at baseball, not raping people.
(Starlin Castro hasn't been charged, you know).
Quote from: CT III on July 23, 2012, 09:48:41 PM
Penn State Football is a THING. It's a living, breathing all-consuming Thing. It had to be destroyed. I'm still pissed the NCAA didn't use the death penalty here, but I'll take what I can get.
Are you sure that you aren't thinking of USC? They are back and worse than before.
So the November 13, 2010 game between Penn State and Ohio State now never happened, right?
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on July 24, 2012, 12:55:56 PM
So the November 13, 2010 game between Penn State and Ohio State now never happened, right?
I guess it happened but both teams lost. Which is awesome.
So Curtis Enis was the star of the last Nittany Lions team to win?
Quote from: CBStew on July 24, 2012, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: CT III on July 23, 2012, 09:48:41 PM
Penn State Football is a THING. It's a living, breathing all-consuming Thing. It had to be destroyed. I'm still pissed the NCAA didn't use the death penalty here, but I'll take what I can get.
Are you sure that you aren't thinking of USC? They are back and worse than before.
Of course I'm thinking of USC - GO GAMECOCKS!
Quote from: CT III on July 24, 2012, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: CBStew on July 24, 2012, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: CT III on July 23, 2012, 09:48:41 PM
Penn State Football is a THING. It's a living, breathing all-consuming Thing. It had to be destroyed. I'm still pissed the NCAA didn't use the death penalty here, but I'll take what I can get.
Are you sure that you aren't thinking of USC? They are back and worse than before.
Of course I'm thinking of USC - GO GAMECOCKS!
Gamecocks and Trojans. Go figure.
Quote from: CT III on July 24, 2012, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: CBStew on July 24, 2012, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: CT III on July 23, 2012, 09:48:41 PM
Penn State Football is a THING. It's a living, breathing all-consuming Thing. It had to be destroyed. I'm still pissed the NCAA didn't use the death penalty here, but I'll take what I can get.
Are you sure that you aren't thinking of USC? They are back and worse than before.
Of course I'm thinking of USC - GO GAMECOCKS!
Something something WOFFORD.
At last, perspective (http://wnep.com/2012/07/23/penn-state-sanctions-grads-react/).
Quote from: Fork on July 24, 2012, 06:38:14 PM
At last, perspective (http://wnep.com/2012/07/23/penn-state-sanctions-grads-react/).
This is what I'd expect from a city so poorly managed they had to pay their cops and firefighters minimum wage because they couldn't make payroll.
Quote from: Fork on July 24, 2012, 06:38:14 PM
At last, perspective (http://wnep.com/2012/07/23/penn-state-sanctions-grads-react/).
Quote"I just can't put my arms around it, it's, to me, it was our 9/11 today. I just saw planes crashing into towers," said Tom Price.
Quote"It had nothing to do with the Sandusky scandal. They played hard, they worked hard for those victories and to take them away, we will always feel that he is the NCAA victory leader," said Sally Price.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/national/ncaa/lawyer-sandusky-upset-over-penn-state-sanctions5893e5db5fee44d9b93c968bc00351d9-164662926.html
QuoteHARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) Jerry Sandusky is distraught over the NCAA penalties issued to Penn State's football program for the school's handling of his child sexual abuse scandal and maintains his innocence as he awaits sentencing, his defense lawyer said Wednesday.
Attorney Joe Amendola told The Associated Press in a phone interview that Sandusky told him that even if people believe he is guilty of the crimes for which he was convicted in June, it would be "ridiculous" to think Penn State administrators engaged in a cover-up.
...
"He said, 'To do what they're doing to Penn State is so unjust,'" Amendola said. "He loves the program and he loves the university."
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on August 02, 2012, 04:38:48 PM
"He said, 'To do what they're doing to Penn State is so unjust,'" Amendola said. "He loves the program and he loves the university."
[/quote]
Does he know how old the university is?
Four rogue trustees are actually challenging the NCAA's sanctions. I hope the NCAA says "fuck you" and uses their challenge as a pretext to level the four-year death penalty they initially contemplated.
http://espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0806/PSU_trustee_appeal.pdf (http://espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0806/PSU_trustee_appeal.pdf)
And the outstanding meme take on the appeal
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w30/Hondo77_photos/Current%20Events/24526012.jpg)
Oh, for fuck's sake (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19760886/unlicensed-penn-state-shirt-depicts-ncaa-logo-with-hammer-and-sickle).
Quote from: Fork on August 09, 2012, 08:55:45 AM
Oh, for fuck's sake (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19760886/unlicensed-penn-state-shirt-depicts-ncaa-logo-with-hammer-and-sickle).
I wonder how many of these asshats will look back at their behavior in the wake of these sanctions and just wish they had shut the hell up. Again, the only victims here are young men whose youth was unfairly stolen from them by a rapey predator who was allowed to flourish thanks to the very same environment which currently allows people to comfortably and unashamedly engage in this staggering behavior--twisting this case around to make the school seem like the victim. It is truly disgusting.