Shocking that I'm the one to post about this, I know.
It's okay. I think it has to decide what kind of show it wants to be. Is it a normal police procedural in a fucked up city that has really eccentric villains in it? Is it a really long, drawn out and probably shitty Batman origin story? Does it keep trying to be dark or does it embrace some of the really funny camp possibilities it has? It's kind of done all of the above so far.
There's potential to be really good, though, mostly because Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock are just so fucking perfect for their roles, and I'm really enjoying the weird dude they have playing The Penguin. Since I normally fucking hate the Penguin, it's a nice change.
Jada Pinkett Smith is awful, though.
I've been watching and I agree with pretty much everything you said. Logue and McKenzie being cops together is a great start for any show and this one happens to be in Gotham.
I think the angle with Barbara and her old angry girlfriend who's trying to ruin Gordon is fairly bad. We know he didn't kill the Penguin so that'll get fixed but they didn't really make Essen very attractive and in the books I read, when Jim cheats on Barbara, a) he has a baby and b) Essen is a hot new cop - not the old chief.
Maybe I'm missing something there.
But yeah I keep wondering if they're going to be going after different vigilantes now. They flat out said it in ep. 3.
I hope they plan to speed age Bruce a little bit because watching a useless 10 year old ain't as fun as watching an angry, hormonal teenager learn to harness that. What will maybe eventually kill this show is that everyone just wants to see the goddamn Batman.
I haven't checked in on this. Probably do a binge catch up post season. The Bruce part seems fixable by having offseason time jumps. Skip a year or two over the summer.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 08, 2014, 08:24:02 AM
I haven't checked in on this. Probably do a binge catch up post season. The Bruce part seems fixable by having offseason time jumps. Skip a year or two over the summer.
Thanks for your opinion on a show that you haven't watched yet.
I'm not a huge nerd like SKO and his comics, but this is an okay show. I'd rather have Southland on.
Quote from: SKO on October 07, 2014, 04:46:54 PM
Shocking that I'm the one to post about this, I know.
It's okay. I think it has to decide what kind of show it wants to be. Is it a normal police procedural in a fucked up city that has really eccentric villains in it? Is it a really long, drawn out and probably shitty Batman origin story? Does it keep trying to be dark or does it embrace some of the really funny camp possibilities it has? It's kind of done all of the above so far.
There's potential to be really good, though, mostly because Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock are just so fucking perfect for their roles, and I'm really enjoying the weird dude they have playing The Penguin. Since I normally fucking hate the Penguin, it's a nice change.
Jada Pinkett Smith is awful, though.
Good review. Why the producers thought that a Batman prequel was a good idea is a mystery to me. TV shows need resolution. By definition there isn't going to be resolution if it remains a prequel. The young actress who plays the "I'm going to be Cat Woman" character brings out the dirty old man in me. I hope for my sake that she is in her twenties. Otherwise I am going to have to report myself. I agree that the Jada Pinkett Smith character is jarring. She is the only actor that is approaching this as though she were a comic book character.
Quote from: CBStew on October 08, 2014, 09:14:44 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 07, 2014, 04:46:54 PM
Shocking that I'm the one to post about this, I know.
It's okay. I think it has to decide what kind of show it wants to be. Is it a normal police procedural in a fucked up city that has really eccentric villains in it? Is it a really long, drawn out and probably shitty Batman origin story? Does it keep trying to be dark or does it embrace some of the really funny camp possibilities it has? It's kind of done all of the above so far.
There's potential to be really good, though, mostly because Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock are just so fucking perfect for their roles, and I'm really enjoying the weird dude they have playing The Penguin. Since I normally fucking hate the Penguin, it's a nice change.
Jada Pinkett Smith is awful, though.
Good review. Why the producers thought that a Batman prequel was a good idea is a mystery to me. TV shows need resolution. By definition there isn't going to be resolution if it remains a prequel. The young actress who plays the "I'm going to be Cat Woman" character brings out the dirty old man in me. I hope for my sake that she is in her twenties. Otherwise I am going to have to report myself. I agree that the Jada Pinkett Smith character is jarring. She is the only actor that is approaching this as though she were a comic book character.
When did Yettoe hack into Stew's account? 15'll get ya 20
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on October 08, 2014, 09:42:12 AM
Quote from: CBStew on October 08, 2014, 09:14:44 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 07, 2014, 04:46:54 PM
Shocking that I'm the one to post about this, I know.
It's okay. I think it has to decide what kind of show it wants to be. Is it a normal police procedural in a fucked up city that has really eccentric villains in it? Is it a really long, drawn out and probably shitty Batman origin story? Does it keep trying to be dark or does it embrace some of the really funny camp possibilities it has? It's kind of done all of the above so far.
There's potential to be really good, though, mostly because Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock are just so fucking perfect for their roles, and I'm really enjoying the weird dude they have playing The Penguin. Since I normally fucking hate the Penguin, it's a nice change.
Jada Pinkett Smith is awful, though.
Good review. Why the producers thought that a Batman prequel was a good idea is a mystery to me. TV shows need resolution. By definition there isn't going to be resolution if it remains a prequel. The young actress who plays the "I'm going to be Cat Woman" character brings out the dirty old man in me. I hope for my sake that she is in her twenties. Otherwise I am going to have to report myself. I agree that the Jada Pinkett Smith character is jarring. She is the only actor that is approaching this as though she were a comic book character.
When did Yettoe hack into Stew's account? 15'll get ya 20
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camren_Bicondova
QuoteBorn: May 22, 1999 (age 15)
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on October 08, 2014, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on October 08, 2014, 09:42:12 AM
Quote from: CBStew on October 08, 2014, 09:14:44 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 07, 2014, 04:46:54 PM
Shocking that I'm the one to post about this, I know.
It's okay. I think it has to decide what kind of show it wants to be. Is it a normal police procedural in a fucked up city that has really eccentric villains in it? Is it a really long, drawn out and probably shitty Batman origin story? Does it keep trying to be dark or does it embrace some of the really funny camp possibilities it has? It's kind of done all of the above so far.
There's potential to be really good, though, mostly because Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock are just so fucking perfect for their roles, and I'm really enjoying the weird dude they have playing The Penguin. Since I normally fucking hate the Penguin, it's a nice change.
Jada Pinkett Smith is awful, though.
Good review. Why the producers thought that a Batman prequel was a good idea is a mystery to me. TV shows need resolution. By definition there isn't going to be resolution if it remains a prequel. The young actress who plays the "I'm going to be Cat Woman" character brings out the dirty old man in me. I hope for my sake that she is in her twenties. Otherwise I am going to have to report myself. I agree that the Jada Pinkett Smith character is jarring. She is the only actor that is approaching this as though she were a comic book character.
When did Yettoe hack into Stew's account? 15'll get ya 20
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camren_Bicondova
QuoteBorn: May 22, 1999 (age 15)
TOO OLD
Quote from: J. Walter Weatherman on October 08, 2014, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Chuggar on October 08, 2014, 09:42:12 AM
Quote from: CBStew on October 08, 2014, 09:14:44 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 07, 2014, 04:46:54 PM
Shocking that I'm the one to post about this, I know.
It's okay. I think it has to decide what kind of show it wants to be. Is it a normal police procedural in a fucked up city that has really eccentric villains in it? Is it a really long, drawn out and probably shitty Batman origin story? Does it keep trying to be dark or does it embrace some of the really funny camp possibilities it has? It's kind of done all of the above so far.
There's potential to be really good, though, mostly because Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock are just so fucking perfect for their roles, and I'm really enjoying the weird dude they have playing The Penguin. Since I normally fucking hate the Penguin, it's a nice change.
Jada Pinkett Smith is awful, though.
Good review. Why the producers thought that a Batman prequel was a good idea is a mystery to me. TV shows need resolution. By definition there isn't going to be resolution if it remains a prequel. The young actress who plays the "I'm going to be Cat Woman" character brings out the dirty old man in me. I hope for my sake that she is in her twenties. Otherwise I am going to have to report myself. I agree that the Jada Pinkett Smith character is jarring. She is the only actor that is approaching this as though she were a comic book character.
When did Yettoe hack into Stew's account? 15'll get ya 20
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camren_Bicondova
QuoteBorn: May 22, 1999 (age 15)
So I am a dirty old man. No surprise there.
Quote from: Slaky on October 08, 2014, 08:00:27 AM
I've been watching and I agree with pretty much everything you said. Logue and McKenzie being cops together is a great start for any show and this one happens to be in Gotham.
I think the angle with Barbara and her old angry girlfriend who's trying to ruin Gordon is fairly bad. We know he didn't kill the Penguin so that'll get fixed but they didn't really make Essen very attractive and in the books I read, when Jim cheats on Barbara, a) he has a baby and b) Essen is a hot new cop - not the old chief.
Maybe I'm missing something there.
But yeah I keep wondering if they're going to be going after different vigilantes now. They flat out said it in ep. 3.
I hope they plan to speed age Bruce a little bit because watching a useless 10 year old ain't as fun as watching an angry, hormonal teenager learn to harness that. What will maybe eventually kill this show is that everyone just wants to see the goddamn Batman.
I have no idea why they named that Chief lady Essen if not just a pointless name drop that will actually just piss off the pedantic nerds like me who give a crap. Because you're right, that's nothing like the hot young Essen that tempts Jim away from his wife and later becomes Mrs. Gordon #2.
I'd honestly just like Bruce to not be in every episode. Keep his appearances small. A ten year long Batman origin is unnecessary and boring. Keep the focus on the characters that make Gotham what it is. If you even inch too far to making it a Batman show, that's what it'll always be, and that's wasting McKenzie and Logue and Really Good Creepy Penguin Dude.
I seriously forgot about Barbara and the weird decision to make Rene Montoya her ex lover but now I'm mad. My beef is that Montoya and Attucks appear to be total assholes, which is a shame because in the comics they're good cops. Same with Bullock. The show makes him out to be a fundamentally decent guy at heart who has been somewhat corrupted by the city, but in the comics Bullock, no matter what, is still a good cop. I hope they don't let him cross the line too far.
Whatever Pedo-Vibes young Catwoman gives off to Stew she really needs to not talk. Because holy fuck is she annoying.
I made it through 2.5 episodes, but I'm pretty convinced that it's not just a little slow to get going -- it's just boring.
Someone let me know when they spice up the fight scenes:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SXI9xWkTQek/TECo_mQOiyI/AAAAAAAAC2E/7TVq8r6aAwU/s1600/Batman-Robin-1966-TV-Pow.jpg)
Quote from: ChuckD on October 14, 2014, 12:32:27 PM
I made it through 2.5 episodes, but I'm pretty convinced that it's not just a little slow to get going -- it's just boring.
Someone let me know when they spice up the fight scenes:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SXI9xWkTQek/TECo_mQOiyI/AAAAAAAAC2E/7TVq8r6aAwU/s1600/Batman-Robin-1966-TV-Pow.jpg)
It actually had 16 eps ordered but earned the full season call up late last week, I think. So it'll get 22 this year to try and make this thing go somewhere.
I admit it. I had no clue that what is being portrayed on the small screen was in any way related to a canon that has been published elsewhere. I haven't read a Batman comic book since sometime in the 1940's. Since I don't know what is going on I will simply enjoy it for the pretty pictures and the atmosphere. It sucks to get old but I guess that it beats the alternative.
Quote from: CBStew on October 14, 2014, 12:42:11 PM
I admit it. I had no clue that what is being portrayed on the small screen was in any way related to a canon that has been published elsewhere. I haven't read a Batman comic book since sometime in the 1940's. Since I don't know what is going on I will simply enjoy it for the pretty pictures and the atmosphere. It sucks to get old but I guess that it beats the alternative.
Being SKO?
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it. "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence. Does the sun ever shine? If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows. Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white. The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing. Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that.
Quote from: CBStew on October 21, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it. "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence. Does the sun ever shine? If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows. Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white. The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing. Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that.
Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 21, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it. "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence. Does the sun ever shine? If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows. Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white. The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing. Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that.
Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
Christopher Nolan, too.
Quote from: Bort on October 22, 2014, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 21, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it. "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence. Does the sun ever shine? If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows. Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white. The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing. Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that.
Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.
Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.
That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
...
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
Then explain Gary, Indiana.
Quote from: CBStew on October 22, 2014, 05:26:26 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
...
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
Then explain Gary, Indiana.
Gary is the inexplicable thing that ruins all theoretical systems.
Quote from: SKO on October 22, 2014, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 22, 2014, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 21, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it. "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence. Does the sun ever shine? If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows. Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white. The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing. Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that.
Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.
Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.
That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.
I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.
I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.
Quote from: Slaky on October 23, 2014, 10:39:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 22, 2014, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 22, 2014, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 21, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it. "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence. Does the sun ever shine? If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows. Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white. The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing. Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that.
Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.
Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.
That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.
I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.
I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.
I don't think this show will get to Batman. Maybe in the series finale, in the last scene.
Quote from: Bort on October 23, 2014, 01:38:42 PM
Quote from: Slaky on October 23, 2014, 10:39:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 22, 2014, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 22, 2014, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 21, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it. "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence. Does the sun ever shine? If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows. Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white. The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing. Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that.
Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.
Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.
That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.
I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.
I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.
I don't think this show will get to Batman. Maybe in the series finale, in the last scene.
And, like SKO and many others have said, supervillains don't exist except as a response to Batman. Which means we're just watching a detective show. I still have no idea what the Selina Kyle character is going to do.
Quote from: Slaky on October 23, 2014, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 23, 2014, 01:38:42 PM
Quote from: Slaky on October 23, 2014, 10:39:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 22, 2014, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 22, 2014, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 21, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
I think this show is figuring out what works. The last two episodes have been focused on Gordon and Bullock and Penguins rise to power/manipulation of the brewing Falcone/Maroni mob war and they've been the strongest two episodes yet in my opinion. I hope they keep it up. Little Bruce's storyline actually didn't suck in last night's episode either, which was a nice change.
Speaking of atmosphere, this show reeks of it. "Gotham", the city, is a forbidding presence. Does the sun ever shine? If it does it is only so the characters can cast long dark shadows. Thinking back I remember the dominant colors of that comic book in my day were purple, dark green, black and white. The guys who did the coloring knew what they were doing. Since Robin was anachronistically decked out in red, yellow and green there must have been some hidden psychological significance to that.
Well in the comics Gotham is usually a pretty dark and grim place. Frank Miller and the artists of his era kind of made it the worst possible version of New York, heavily influenced by the crime waves of the 70s, especially the blackouts in 77. Then in the 1990s they remodeled it in the comics to match Anton Furst's designs for the Batman '89 movie, which described Gotham as "when hell burst up from the earth's crust and grew into a city." So yeah, it's kind of a shitty place to live. What with the murderous sociopathic clowns and half scarred crazy ex-DAs and Jungian archetypes fear-gassing everyone, and the architecture matches that.
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
I actually like the idea (Sims, maybe?) that getting mugged in Gotham is unlikely. Post-Batman, it's only the psychos that thrive, so the street crime rate is significantly lower, but the ones that do happen are much worse.
Yeah, the general timeline that starts with Miller's Year One (and Nolan did this very well too) is that Gotham is a normally corrupt city ruled by the mafia and whatnot, and Batman fixes that shit in pretty quickly (Year One/Long Halloween) and then the New Crime of supervillains rises up in response to Batman. The general man on the street is better off on average but Batman has kind of created a new mess and guaranteed his continued necessity by being the only person capable of handling it.
That's why I really hope this show, never, ever does a Joker. While Penguin is just a weird crime lord who absolutely would have existed before Batman, and I'm fine with showing Selena being a little hellion and even Eddie Nygma, guy who loves riddles, Joker emerges solely in response to Batman. There is no point to him without Batman. So of course I expect the Joker to appear in the season finale.
I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.
I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.
I don't think this show will get to Batman. Maybe in the series finale, in the last scene.
And, like SKO and many others have said, supervillains don't exist except as a response to Batman. Which means we're just watching a detective show. I still have no idea what the Selina Kyle character is going to do.
Grow up and become a burglar?
I'm fine with this being a detective show, to be honest. I wish they'd have done it Gotham Central style, where regular people have to deal with a world where Batman is a thing, but honestly, outside of comics, it's hard to get a superhero story past the origin. They may do some time jumps, but it's clear the mission statement is "Batman Minus Batman."
Quote from: Bort on October 23, 2014, 02:27:46 PM
"Batman Minus Batman."
JERRY: And it's about nothing?
GEORGE: Absolutely nothing.
JERRY: So you're saying, I go in to
NBC FOX, and tell them I got this idea for a show about nothing.
GEORGE: We go into
NBC FOX.
JERRY: "We"? Since when are you a writer?
GEORGE: (Scoffs) Writer. We're talking about a
sit-com police procedural.
JERRY: You want to go with me to
NBC FOX?
GEORGE: Yeah. I think we really go something here.
JERRY: What do we got?
GEORGE: An idea.
JERRY: What idea?
GEORGE: An idea for the show.
JERRY: I still don't know what the idea is.
GEORGE: It's about nothing.
JERRY: Right.
GEORGE: Everybody's doing something, we'll do nothing.
JERRY: So, we go into
NBC FOX, we tell them we've got an idea for a show about nothing.
GEORGE: Exactly.
JERRY: They say, "What's your show about?" I say, "Nothing."
GEORGE: There you go.
(A moment passes)
JERRY: (Nodding) I think you may have something there.
Quote from: Bort on October 23, 2014, 02:27:46 PM
Quote from: Slaky on October 23, 2014, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 23, 2014, 01:38:42 PM
Quote from: Slaky on October 23, 2014, 10:39:26 AM
I don't. I don't think they're going to create a Joker. If they did it'd have to be a kid.
I could see them fast forwarding a little bit for season two and make Bruce a teen but I could also see them never getting to the Year One phase of Batman. Which sucks because I want to see that so bad. I'm the worst.
I don't think this show will get to Batman. Maybe in the series finale, in the last scene.
And, like SKO and many others have said, supervillains don't exist except as a response to Batman. Which means we're just watching a detective show. I still have no idea what the Selina Kyle character is going to do.
Grow up and become a burglar?
I'm fine with this being a detective show, to be honest. I wish they'd have done it Gotham Central style, where regular people have to deal with a world where Batman is a thing, but honestly, outside of comics, it's hard to get a superhero story past the origin. They may do some time jumps, but it's clear the mission statement is "Batman Minus Batman."
Which is funny because the initial idea for Smallville was to do a show about young Bruce Wayne's journey into becoming Batman, but they felt it was cruel to show him doing all of this work and then never show him in the cape. So they opted to do that with Superman instead because fuck Superman is WB's official policy. But ten years later here we are.
I also agree that I like it as just a detective show, but the Penguin element needs to stay. I'd pretty much watch this show stripped off all Batman ties if it was just Idealistic Cop in Corrupt City tries to stop brewing mob war as really weird, awkward sociopath murders and scams his way to the top of said criminal empire. Those storylines are working. The rest not so much. The last two episodes have pretty much followed this formula.
Also I say this a lot but for those of you who are watching this because "Yay Comics" and not "eh this looks okay as long as it's not too comic-y" I have to strongly recommend The Flash and Arrow. You have to put up with a fair share of stupid CW melodrama but The Flash especially is pretty loyal to the comics canon and has been highly entertaining through the first three episodes. The first two seasons of Arrow are on Netflix. If you can just get through the first half of season one it really picks up steam, and season two was all kinds of batshit crazy in a good way, with Deathstroke showing up to just do some over the top supervillain shit. The Suicide Squad even makes a couple appearances.
Quote from: SKO on October 23, 2014, 04:29:37 PM
Also I say this a lot but for those of you who are watching this because "Yay Comics" and not "eh this looks okay as long as it's not too comic-y" I have to strongly recommend The Flash and Arrow. You have to put up with a fair share of stupid CW melodrama but The Flash especially is pretty loyal to the comics canon and has been highly entertaining through the first three episodes. The first two seasons of Arrow are on Netflix. If you can just get through the first half of season one it really picks up steam, and season two was all kinds of batshit crazy in a good way, with Deathstroke showing up to just do some over the top supervillain shit. The Suicide Squad even makes a couple appearances.
Yeah you've finally sold me on Arrow. I keep meaning to make the jump and with Slakette very soon arriving I think it's a good time to do so.
Quote from: SKO on October 23, 2014, 04:14:38 PM
I also agree that I like it as just a detective show, but the Penguin element needs to stay. I'd pretty much watch this show stripped off all Batman ties if it was just Idealistic Cop in Corrupt City tries to stop brewing mob war as really weird, awkward sociopath murders and scams his way to the top of said criminal empire. Those storylines are working. The rest not so much. The last two episodes have pretty much followed this formula.
Yeah, that's where my interest lies. I like Sean Pertwee's Alfred well enough, but he's tied to a kid. And even good kid actors are annoying.
Quote from: Slaky on October 23, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 23, 2014, 04:29:37 PM
Also I say this a lot but for those of you who are watching this because "Yay Comics" and not "eh this looks okay as long as it's not too comic-y" I have to strongly recommend The Flash and Arrow. You have to put up with a fair share of stupid CW melodrama but The Flash especially is pretty loyal to the comics canon and has been highly entertaining through the first three episodes. The first two seasons of Arrow are on Netflix. If you can just get through the first half of season one it really picks up steam, and season two was all kinds of batshit crazy in a good way, with Deathstroke showing up to just do some over the top supervillain shit. The Suicide Squad even makes a couple appearances.
Yeah you've finally sold me on Arrow. I keep meaning to make the jump and with Slakette very soon arriving I think it's a good time to do so.
Just remember I warned you of season one and CW melodrama. I agree with the guy from Comics Alliance who says it's basically a low rent tv version of Nolan's Batman with Ollie standing in for Bruce. The Flash definitely tries to be more like a tv version of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man. No complaints on either approach.
Quote from: SKO on October 23, 2014, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: Slaky on October 23, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 23, 2014, 04:29:37 PM
Also I say this a lot but for those of you who are watching this because "Yay Comics" and not "eh this looks okay as long as it's not too comic-y" I have to strongly recommend The Flash and Arrow. You have to put up with a fair share of stupid CW melodrama but The Flash especially is pretty loyal to the comics canon and has been highly entertaining through the first three episodes. The first two seasons of Arrow are on Netflix. If you can just get through the first half of season one it really picks up steam, and season two was all kinds of batshit crazy in a good way, with Deathstroke showing up to just do some over the top supervillain shit. The Suicide Squad even makes a couple appearances.
Yeah you've finally sold me on Arrow. I keep meaning to make the jump and with Slakette very soon arriving I think it's a good time to do so.
Just remember I warned you of season one and CW melodrama. I agree with the guy from Comics Alliance who says it's basically a low rent tv version of Nolan's Batman with Ollie standing in for Bruce. The Flash definitely tries to be more like a tv version of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man. No complaints on either approach.
Ollie? As in Kukla, Fran and...? Now there was a great show.
Okay. I think it just isn't good
I haven't seen the latest Gotham yet but is this where we talk about Flash? I watched the pilot and while it was clearly setting up relationships with some corny dialogue it was also pretty cool. I'll definitely keep watching it.
Quote from: Slaky on October 31, 2014, 08:51:34 AM
I haven't seen the latest Gotham yet but is this where we talk about Flash? I watched the pilot and while it was clearly setting up relationships with some corny dialogue it was also pretty cool. I'll definitely keep watching it.
I will talk about this wherever. There's some corny to it, but Barry Allen's kind of a cornball character when he's done right. It's just very entertaining, and whatever CW crap it does it's very loyal to the Flash canon and to the spirit of the character. This week's episode vs. Captain Cold was fantastic and surprisingly good visual effects for a TV show.
Quote from: Bort on October 22, 2014, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 22, 2014, 05:26:26 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 21, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
...
Really the only guys I can remember not making Gotham a grim, dirty hellscape are Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder, who have both kinda pointed out the obvious answer that if it was that bad all of the time people would move eventually.
Then explain Gary, Indiana.
Gary is the inexplicable thing that ruins all theoretical systems.
Last two times I was there, it was a ghost town. Not sure where everyone on the census was but they weren't anywhere near the city center. The population is about 78,000. That's down from 178,000 in 1960.