His management of the 8th inning was superb. Coke comes in and gets an out and an E6 against two lefties. Ramirez gets Holliday to pop out and then exits for Strop who induces Adams into a L6 to end the inning.
Why use Ramirez at all? Well, Holliday is 1-3 with a double a walk and two HBP lifetime against Strop. That's all kinds of bad juju. The lefty Adams is now 0-8 lifetime against Strop. So that means Pedro can carry a little picture of that fat turd around in his wallet with an inscription on the back, "My bitch."
Isn't it amazing when things work? I can get used to this.
Quote from: InternetApex on April 08, 2015, 03:38:39 PM
His management of the 8th inning was superb. Coke comes in and gets an out and an E6 against two lefties. Ramirez gets Holliday to pop out and then exits for Strop who induces Adams into a L6 to end the inning.
Why use Ramirez at all? Well, Holliday is 1-3 with a double a walk and two HBP lifetime against Strop. That's all kinds of bad juju. The lefty Adams is now 0-8 lifetime against Strop. So that means Pedro can carry a little picture of that fat turd around in his wallet with an inscription on the back, "My bitch."
Isn't amazing when things work? I can get used to this.
I was wondering why the switch from Ramirez to Strop given they're both right-handed so thank you for this. Savvy.
Quote from: InternetApex on April 08, 2015, 03:38:39 PM
So that means Pedro can carry a little picture of that fat turd around in his wallet with an inscription on the back, "My bitch."
I lol'd.
Late getting around to this....
I know it worked out (and was probably a key part of getting the winning run across), but I'm not sure how much I like pinch-running for Rizzo at first base in the ninth inning of a tie game. Over the long term, it seems like the reward that the extra speed Szczur or the like provides will make a difference is outweighed by the risk that you head in to extra innings without the NL MVP in your lineup.
Quote from: Shooter on May 17, 2015, 01:11:35 PM
Late getting around to this....
I know it worked out (and was probably a key part of getting the winning run across), but I'm not sure how much I like pinch-running for Rizzo at first base in the ninth inning of a tie game. Over the long term, it seems like the reward that the extra speed Szczur or the like provides will make a difference is outweighed by the risk that you head in to extra innings without the NL MVP in your lineup.
He's done that a few times this year and I agree. There are a lot of scenarios where Rizzo could score just the same as Szczur. The benefit just isn't worth it.
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
I like this trade both for the actual value in return and for the inevitable butthurt from the Minor League Following Pederasts
TMMinor League Following Pederasts is a registered trademark of CT Enterprises
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 09:05:29 AM
I like this trade both for the actual value in return and for the inevitable butthurt from the Minor League Following PederastsTM
They're currently projected as an ~86 win team and this trade would add between 4-5 wins this season (if it were done today, that is). That's a huge difference at the major-league level.
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 09:10:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 09:05:29 AM
I like this trade both for the actual value in return and for the inevitable butthurt from the Minor League Following PederastsTM
They're currently projected as an ~86 win team and this trade would add between 4-5 wins this season (if it were done today, that is). That's a huge difference at the major-league level.
Plus Kazmir seems like a guy they could sign to a Hammel like deal for another 1-2 years in addition to adding another top tier starter. Make the playoffs this year with a rotation of Lester/Arrieta/Hammel/Kazmir/WadaHendricksWoodThreeHeadedMonsterOfJustGiveUsFiveInningsPlz and then next year roll out Lester/Arrieta/Cueto(or Price or whomever)/Hammel/Kazmir.
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
That sound you heard was PenFoe dropping his free-range vegan craft beer on the floor in horror.
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Throw in Corey Black and (some other guy that is going to be Rule 5 eligible this year) for Sean Doolittle
Quote from: PANK! on May 21, 2015, 09:15:10 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
That sound you heard was PenFoe dropping his free-range vegan craft beer on the floor in horror.
I really didn't intend it as a Pen-poke. I thought about McKinney, but Torres is exactly the kind of trade chip a team like the Cubs should cash in right now. He's high-floor/low-ceiling, at a position of organizational strength and far away from the majors. He's less valuable to them than most other clubs.
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: PANK! on May 21, 2015, 09:15:10 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
That sound you heard was PenFoe dropping his free-range vegan craft beer on the floor in horror.
I really didn't intend it as a Pen-poke. I thought about McKinney, but Torres is exactly the kind of trade chip a team like the Cubs should cash in right now. He's high-floor/low-ceiling, at a position of organizational strength and far away from the majors. He's less valuable to them than most other clubs.
I've never even bothered to get attached to Gleyber because he had future trade chip stamped on him from the day he was signed. There will be outrage when he's inevitably traded and it will still mystify me.
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 09:39:07 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: PANK! on May 21, 2015, 09:15:10 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
That sound you heard was PenFoe dropping his free-range vegan craft beer on the floor in horror.
I really didn't intend it as a Pen-poke. I thought about McKinney, but Torres is exactly the kind of trade chip a team like the Cubs should cash in right now. He's high-floor/low-ceiling, at a position of organizational strength and far away from the majors. He's less valuable to them than most other clubs.
I've never even bothered to get attached to Gleyber because he had future trade chip stamped on him from the day he was signed. There will be outrage when he's inevitably traded and it will still mystify me.
I'm actually cool with this trade because the Cubs can just get Gleyber back from Billy Beane in two years for Duane Underwood.
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Since you proposed this trade Torres, Vogelbach, and now apparently Kazmir have all gotten hurt. What foul magic is this?
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Since you proposed this trade Torres, Vogelbach, and now apparently Kazmir have all gotten hurt. What foul magic is this?
Gleyber came back 2 days later and started instantly killing it again.
Stop trading him - he's probably the best SS in the organization.
Quote from: PenFoe on May 27, 2015, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Since you proposed this trade Torres, Vogelbach, and now apparently Kazmir have all gotten hurt. What foul magic is this?
Gleyber came back 2 days later and started instantly killing it again.
Stop trading him - he's probably the best SS in the organization.
Based on what do you say he's the best SS in the organization? He's got 10 errors already this year. I don't think you should really overreact to Baez slow defensive start this year or Russell fucking up a few times after playing 2B for the first time and just automatically declare the guy on the cover of Tiger Beat as the best SS in the org.
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:45:33 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on May 27, 2015, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Since you proposed this trade Torres, Vogelbach, and now apparently Kazmir have all gotten hurt. What foul magic is this?
Gleyber came back 2 days later and started instantly killing it again.
Stop trading him - he's probably the best SS in the organization.
Based on what do you say he's the best SS in the organization? He's got 10 errors already this year. I don't think you should really overreact to Baez slow defensive start this year or Russell fucking up a few times after playing 2B for the first time and just automatically declare the guy on the cover of Tiger Beat as the best SS in the org.
I assumed Pen was trolling.
Quote from: Eli on May 27, 2015, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:45:33 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on May 27, 2015, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Since you proposed this trade Torres, Vogelbach, and now apparently Kazmir have all gotten hurt. What foul magic is this?
Gleyber came back 2 days later and started instantly killing it again.
Stop trading him - he's probably the best SS in the organization.
Based on what do you say he's the best SS in the organization? He's got 10 errors already this year. I don't think you should really overreact to Baez slow defensive start this year or Russell fucking up a few times after playing 2B for the first time and just automatically declare the guy on the cover of Tiger Beat as the best SS in the org.
I assumed Pen was trolling.
I can never tell with him and Gleyber, but I suppose you're right. Dagnabbit I been had.
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
He left in the 3rd inning today. Sat in the dugout pointing at his shoulder.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on May 27, 2015, 03:49:47 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
He left in the 3rd inning today. Sat in the dugout pointing at his shoulder.
Sigh:
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Since you proposed this trade Torres, Vogelbach, and now apparently Kazmir have all gotten hurt. What foul magic is this?
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:47:33 PM
Quote from: Eli on May 27, 2015, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:45:33 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on May 27, 2015, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 27, 2015, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: Eli on May 21, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 21, 2015, 08:11:42 AM
It's always a risky strategy with the state of the Cubs pen, but I approved of the quick hook for Wada. Norris/Kemp/Upton crush lefties and Wada was garbage vs the third time through the order last year. Good work, Joe.
Not on Joe, but it'd be nice if they had more than three starters who could sometimes make it through 6 innings. Maybe Wada and Hendricks should go 4 each every 5th day.
SomethingsomethingColeHamelssomething
Still thinking Scott Kazmir looks nice and Oakland sure seems like they might be sellin' right quick.
Worthless fake trade proposal: Torres and Vogelbach for Kazmir and Josh Reddick.
Since you proposed this trade Torres, Vogelbach, and now apparently Kazmir have all gotten hurt. What foul magic is this?
Gleyber came back 2 days later and started instantly killing it again.
Stop trading him - he's probably the best SS in the organization.
Based on what do you say he's the best SS in the organization? He's got 10 errors already this year. I don't think you should really overreact to Baez slow defensive start this year or Russell fucking up a few times after playing 2B for the first time and just automatically declare the guy on the cover of Tiger Beat as the best SS in the org.
I assumed Pen was trolling.
I can never tell with him and Gleyber, but I suppose you're right. Dagnabbit I been had.
I don't think there's actually any question that Addison Russell is the best SS in the organization.
At least until Alex Bregman gets busted for a DUI the week before the draft and falls to the Cubs and IAN declares him "his new guy."
My Maddon boner deflates a touch every day that he bats Castro cleanup
Quote from: SKO on May 31, 2015, 11:14:52 AM
My Maddon boner deflates a touch every day that he bats Castro cleanup
Except, to all intents and purposes, he's batting him fifth. Not that that's a whole lot better.
Quote from: Tonker on May 31, 2015, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 31, 2015, 11:14:52 AM
My Maddon boner deflates a touch every day that he bats Castro cleanup
Except, to all intents and purposes, he's batting him fifth. Not that that's a whole lot better.
It's less that he's the cleanup hitter and more that he's the guy asked to drive in Bryant and Rizzo. If they were 3 and 4 I wouldn't want him 5th either
Can I first guess the hook on Wada today? And it's not Joe's call, but why is Travis Wood still on the roster?
It's not Joe's fault Wood is on the roster but there's no fucking excuse whatsoever for using him in that spot.
So thanks to Coghlan's recent turn around and Jorge and Addison both surging...the Cubs have 7/8 position players with an OPS+ of 100 or better in their lineup. The guy with the 75 OPS+ is batting cleanup.
Today's line-up. Hey look who's hitting cleanup, and who isn't. I'll take it.
1. Fowler
2. Bryant
3. Rizzo
4. Soler
5. Montero
6. Castro
7. Coghlan
8. Hammel
9. Russell
Quote from: Sterling Archer on June 01, 2015, 01:48:36 PM
Today's line-up. Hey look who's hitting cleanup, and who isn't. I'll take it.
1. Fowler
2. Bryant
3. Rizzo
4. Soler
5. Montero
6. Castro
7. Coghlan
8. Hammel
9. Russell
This is the right answer, Joe.
Quote from: SKO on May 31, 2015, 11:14:52 AM
My Maddon boner deflates a touch every day that he bats Castro cleanup
RE-INFLATING
Quote from: SKO on June 01, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on June 01, 2015, 01:48:36 PM
Today's line-up. Hey look who's hitting cleanup, and who isn't. I'll take it.
1. Fowler
2. Bryant
3. Rizzo
4. Soler
5. Montero
6. Castro
7. Coghlan
8. Hammel
9. Russell
This is the right answer, Joe.
L-R-L-R-L-R-L-R-R
Quote from: PANK! on June 01, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: SKO on June 01, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on June 01, 2015, 01:48:36 PM
Today's line-up. Hey look who's hitting cleanup, and who isn't. I'll take it.
1. Fowler
2. Bryant
3. Rizzo
4. Soler
5. Montero
6. Castro
7. Coghlan
8. Hammel
9. Russell
This is the right answer, Joe.
S-R-L-R-L-R-L-R-R
Fixed.
Quote from: ChuckD on June 01, 2015, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: PANK! on June 01, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: SKO on June 01, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on June 01, 2015, 01:48:36 PM
Today's line-up. Hey look who's hitting cleanup, and who isn't. I'll take it.
1. Fowler
2. Bryant
3. Rizzo
4. Soler
5. Montero
6. Castro
7. Coghlan
8. Hammel
9. Russell
This is the right answer, Joe.
SR-R-L-R-L-R-L-R-R
Fixed.
I know Fowler's a switch-hitter but I assumed he'd be batting lefty tonight. However, I see that tonight's starter, Brad Hand, is a southpaw, which raises the question as to why Rizzo isn't in the 2-hole as has been Maddon's practice vs. left-handed starters.
Quote from: PANK! on June 01, 2015, 02:10:34 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on June 01, 2015, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: PANK! on June 01, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: SKO on June 01, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on June 01, 2015, 01:48:36 PM
Today's line-up. Hey look who's hitting cleanup, and who isn't. I'll take it.
1. Fowler
2. Bryant
3. Rizzo
4. Soler
5. Montero
6. Castro
7. Coghlan
8. Hammel
9. Russell
This is the right answer, Joe.
SR-R-L-R-L-R-L-R-R
Fixed.
I know Fowler's a switch-hitter but I assumed he'd be batting lefty tonight. However, I see that tonight's starter, Brad Hand, is a southpaw, which raises the question as to why Rizzo isn't in the 2-hole as has been Maddon's practice vs. left-handed starters.
Maybe he realized Anthony is slugging .636 vs. lefties this year and wants Bryant on base for the 7 homers he's hitting tonight.
Quote from: PANK! on June 01, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: SKO on June 01, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on June 01, 2015, 01:48:36 PM
Today's line-up. Hey look who's hitting cleanup, and who isn't. I'll take it.
1. Fowler
2. Bryant
3. Rizzo
4. Soler
5. Montero
6. Castro
7. Coghlan
8. Hammel
9. Russell
This is the right answer, Joe.
L-R-L-R-L-R-L-R-R
Maddon seems really fixated on this and it's weird.
Whole lot going on here:
Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Lake
Castro
Russell
Ross
Hendricks
Herrera
Wonder if we've seen the last of Addison Russell in the 9 hole.
Sure hope we won't see much more of Junior Lake at cleanup or Herrera on this team.
But the oddest part for me is the catcher situation.
After 2 great starts in a row with Montero, Hendricks throwing to Ross today. It's a lefty on the mound for the Marlins, but Montero has been much better versus lefties (.903 OPS) than righties this year (.763) despite a minuscule sample size (only 11 ABs versus lefties.)
Even if Joe wanted to go righty-heavy against the lefty pitcher (obviously) it seems odd that he'd break-up the Hendricks/Montero combo to achieve that.
Ross' career OPS versus lefties (.766) is a lot better than Montero's (.654), but that still doesn't make me ever want to see Ross unless Lester is pitching.
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:10:02 PM
Whole lot going on here:
Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Lake
Castro
Russell
Ross
Hendricks
Herrera
Wonder if we've seen the last of Addison Russell in the 9 hole.
Sure hope we won't see much more of Junior Lake at cleanup or Herrera on this team.
But the oddest part for me is the catcher situation.
After 2 great starts in a row with Montero, Hendricks throwing to Ross today. It's a lefty on the mound for the Marlins, but Montero has been much better versus lefties (.903 OPS) than righties this year (.763) despite a minuscule sample size (only 11 ABs versus lefties.)
Even if Joe wanted to go righty-heavy against the lefty pitcher (obviously) it seems odd that he'd break-up the Hendricks/Montero combo to achieve that.
David Ross has a .347 OPS against lefties this year, which feels basically impossible even in only 8 ABs.
Weird stuff, Joe.
Apparently Jorge has a sore ankle, (plz get well soon), so playing Lake is forgiveable, but the cleanup spot? Why wouldn't you put Addison there? Hope Hendricks has one of them complete game shutouts in him again.
Also I find myself hoping Chuck is right and that Javy's just being held down for service time because then he'll be here a week from today the Cubs might actually start to put together an actual freaking bench.
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:10:02 PM
Whole lot going on here:
Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Lake
Castro
Russell
Ross
Hendricks
Herrera
Wonder if we've seen the last of Addison Russell in the 9 hole.
Sure hope we won't see much more of Junior Lake at cleanup or Herrera on this team.
But the oddest part for me is the catcher situation.
After 2 great starts in a row with Montero, Hendricks throwing to Ross today. It's a lefty on the mound for the Marlins, but Montero has been much better versus lefties (.903 OPS) than righties this year (.763) despite a minuscule sample size (only 11 ABs versus lefties.)
Even if Joe wanted to go righty-heavy against the lefty pitcher (obviously) it seems odd that he'd break-up the Hendricks/Montero combo to achieve that.
Ross' career OPS versus lefties (.766) is a lot better than Montero's (.654), but that still doesn't make me ever want to see Ross unless Lester is pitching.
Bryant out in left, too.
Quote from: SKO on June 02, 2015, 03:12:45 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:10:02 PM
Whole lot going on here:
Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Lake
Castro
Russell
Ross
Hendricks
Herrera
Wonder if we've seen the last of Addison Russell in the 9 hole.
Sure hope we won't see much more of Junior Lake at cleanup or Herrera on this team.
But the oddest part for me is the catcher situation.
After 2 great starts in a row with Montero, Hendricks throwing to Ross today. It's a lefty on the mound for the Marlins, but Montero has been much better versus lefties (.903 OPS) than righties this year (.763) despite a minuscule sample size (only 11 ABs versus lefties.)
Even if Joe wanted to go righty-heavy against the lefty pitcher (obviously) it seems odd that he'd break-up the Hendricks/Montero combo to achieve that.
David Ross has a .347 OPS against lefties this year, which feels basically impossible even in only 8 ABs.
Weird stuff, Joe.
Apparently Jorge has a sore ankle, (plz get well soon), so playing Lake is forgiveable, but the cleanup spot? Why wouldn't you put Addison there? Hope Hendricks has one of them complete game shutouts in him again.
I amended my original post with some larger sample size stats, but I wonder if Joe is planning to go Ross against lefties regardless of pitchers moving forward to give Montero a little more time off.
Let's hope not.
Quote from: Eli on June 02, 2015, 03:13:17 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:10:02 PM
Whole lot going on here:
Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Lake
Castro
Russell
Ross
Hendricks
Herrera
Wonder if we've seen the last of Addison Russell in the 9 hole.
Sure hope we won't see much more of Junior Lake at cleanup or Herrera on this team.
But the oddest part for me is the catcher situation.
After 2 great starts in a row with Montero, Hendricks throwing to Ross today. It's a lefty on the mound for the Marlins, but Montero has been much better versus lefties (.903 OPS) than righties this year (.763) despite a minuscule sample size (only 11 ABs versus lefties.)
Even if Joe wanted to go righty-heavy against the lefty pitcher (obviously) it seems odd that he'd break-up the Hendricks/Montero combo to achieve that.
Ross' career OPS versus lefties (.766) is a lot better than Montero's (.654), but that still doesn't make me ever want to see Ross unless Lester is pitching.
Bryant out in left, too.
It's all coming together for Vogelbach to take over third.
TPD, but I don't see why you wouldn't put Russell second and move down Bryant and Rizzo to 3-4 in this situation.
I know none of this really matters in the grand scheme of things, but this is a crazy lineup.
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
TPD, but I don't see why you wouldn't put Russell second and move down Bryant and Rizzo to 3-4 in this situation.
I know none of this really matters in the grand scheme of this, but this is a crazy lineup.
I guess Lake has an .875 OPS vs. lefthanders (in 8 PAs). He also OPS'd .956 vs. lefties in 2013, and as we all know, he did not play at all in 2014.
Quote from: SKO on June 02, 2015, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
TPD, but I don't see why you wouldn't put Russell second and move down Bryant and Rizzo to 3-4 in this situation.
I know none of this really matters in the grand scheme of this, but this is a crazy lineup.
I guess Lake has an .875 OPS vs. lefthanders (in 8 PAs). He also OPS'd .956 vs. lefties in 2013, and as we all know, he did not play at all in 2014.
I need a good reason not just why Jonathan Herrera is in today's lineup, or even why he's on the Cubs, but why he's actually in Major League Baseball at all.
He's got a negative WAR in 3 of the last 4 seasons.
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: SKO on June 02, 2015, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
TPD, but I don't see why you wouldn't put Russell second and move down Bryant and Rizzo to 3-4 in this situation.
I know none of this really matters in the grand scheme of this, but this is a crazy lineup.
I guess Lake has an .875 OPS vs. lefthanders (in 8 PAs). He also OPS'd .956 vs. lefties in 2013, and as we all know, he did not play at all in 2014.
I need a good reason not just why Jonathan Herrera is in today's lineup, or even why he's on the Cubs, but why he's actually in Major League Baseball at all.
He's got a negative WAR in 3 of the last 4 seasons.
Because Tommy La Stella won't man up and play through being dead.
Quote from: SKO on June 02, 2015, 03:24:57 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: SKO on June 02, 2015, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
TPD, but I don't see why you wouldn't put Russell second and move down Bryant and Rizzo to 3-4 in this situation.
I know none of this really matters in the grand scheme of this, but this is a crazy lineup.
I guess Lake has an .875 OPS vs. lefthanders (in 8 PAs). He also OPS'd .956 vs. lefties in 2013, and as we all know, he did not play at all in 2014.
I need a good reason not just why Jonathan Herrera is in today's lineup, or even why he's on the Cubs, but why he's actually in Major League Baseball at all.
He's got a negative WAR in 3 of the last 4 seasons.
Because Tommy La Stella won't man up and play through being dead.
For the record, I've been open to hating Tommy LaStella (http://www.desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=6801.msg286309#msg286309) for a while now.
It sucks seeing Ross in the lineup - not just today but like, ever - but if it keeps Miguel fresh so that he's not dead come August I'll grit my teeth and live with it.
This will all be irrelevant once Schwarber teaches himself to switch-hit so he can give Miguel a rest against tough lefties.
Quote from: R-V on June 02, 2015, 04:16:38 PM
It sucks seeing Ross in the lineup - not just today but like, ever - but if it keeps Miguel fresh so that he's not dead come August I'll grit my teeth and live with it.
This will all be irrelevant once Schwarber teaches himself to switch-hit so he can give Miguel a rest against tough lefties.
Yeah I actually don't disagree with this, sadly. Miggy's already cooled off considerably, so if playing Ross 2 times a week instead of 1 helps him remain useful it's probably worth the trade off.
But I'd like to live in a world without Junior Lake and Herrera so please hurry with the Baez/Schwarber callups. Hell, Mendy seems to be warming up.
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:15:10 PM
Quote from: Eli on June 02, 2015, 03:13:17 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on June 02, 2015, 03:10:02 PM
Whole lot going on here:
Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Lake
Castro
Russell
Ross
Hendricks
Herrera
Wonder if we've seen the last of Addison Russell in the 9 hole.
Sure hope we won't see much more of Junior Lake at cleanup or Herrera on this team.
But the oddest part for me is the catcher situation.
After 2 great starts in a row with Montero, Hendricks throwing to Ross today. It's a lefty on the mound for the Marlins, but Montero has been much better versus lefties (.903 OPS) than righties this year (.763) despite a minuscule sample size (only 11 ABs versus lefties.)
Even if Joe wanted to go righty-heavy against the lefty pitcher (obviously) it seems odd that he'd break-up the Hendricks/Montero combo to achieve that.
Ross' career OPS versus lefties (.766) is a lot better than Montero's (.654), but that still doesn't make me ever want to see Ross unless Lester is pitching.
Bryant out in left, too.
It's all coming together for Vogelbach to take over third the Schwarber to first/Rizzo Neyer-wet-dream trade.
What the fuck was that 8th inning, Joe
Quote from: SKO on June 18, 2015, 10:38:06 PM
What the fuck was that 8th inning, Joe
What, you wouldn't rather have David Ross and Mike Baxter at the plate instead of the Chrises Coghlan and Denorfia? Weirdo. (chugs glue)
Quote from: SKO on June 18, 2015, 10:38:06 PM
What the fuck was that 8th inning, Joe
It was so bad there had to be an ulterior motive. There's no way Joe thought that sequence of events best set them up to score runs. He had a quote after the game about wanting to get guys in the game because "everyone on this team has a role." Maybe he's trying to send a message to the front office to get him a better bench.
Then again, it's not like this is the first time he's done this.
But seriously, stop yanking your good hitters in close games for pinch runners. And stop letting David Ross hit ever.
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 08:25:21 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 18, 2015, 10:38:06 PM
What the fuck was that 8th inning, Joe
It was so bad there had to be an ulterior motive. There's no way Joe thought that sequence of events best set them up to score runs. He had a quote after the game about wanting to get guys in the game because "everyone on this team has a role." Maybe he's trying to send a message to the front office to get him a better bench.
Then again, it's not like this is the first time he's done this.
But seriously, stop yanking your good hitters in close games for pinch runners. And stop letting David Ross hit ever.
INTREPID READER SAHEDEV SHARMA: Woah, Eli. I've talked to several equipment managers about this, and they all say David Ross has a value in the clubhouse you could never fathom. It's real. I see it.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 08:26:50 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 08:25:21 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 18, 2015, 10:38:06 PM
What the fuck was that 8th inning, Joe
It was so bad there had to be an ulterior motive. There's no way Joe thought that sequence of events best set them up to score runs. He had a quote after the game about wanting to get guys in the game because "everyone on this team has a role." Maybe he's trying to send a message to the front office to get him a better bench.
Then again, it's not like this is the first time he's done this.
But seriously, stop yanking your good hitters in close games for pinch runners. And stop letting David Ross hit ever.
INTREPID READER SAHEDEV SHARMA:
Woah, Eli. I've talked to several equipment managers about this, and they all say David Ross has a value in the clubhouse you could never fathom. It's real. I see it.
Wrong thread, but I want to read an actual in-depth analysis of him that goes beyond 140 characters. I'm open to learning. But so far I've been completely unconvinced by people who think he has a place on this team.
Someone on Twitter yesterday told me that the difference between the best and worst framer in the league was 40 runs over a full season. The problem is that assumes 1.) Ross it the best framer in the league 2.) the Cubs would replace him with the worst framer in the league. Even if you accepted those two generous conclusions, Ross's bat over a full season would probably approach -40 run territory, so ... what's his value again? Not to mention the opportunity cost of using a roster spot on a guy who can't hit.
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 08:26:50 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 08:25:21 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 18, 2015, 10:38:06 PM
What the fuck was that 8th inning, Joe
It was so bad there had to be an ulterior motive. There's no way Joe thought that sequence of events best set them up to score runs. He had a quote after the game about wanting to get guys in the game because "everyone on this team has a role." Maybe he's trying to send a message to the front office to get him a better bench.
Then again, it's not like this is the first time he's done this.
But seriously, stop yanking your good hitters in close games for pinch runners. And stop letting David Ross hit ever.
INTREPID READER SAHEDEV SHARMA:
Woah, Eli. I've talked to several equipment managers about this, and they all say David Ross has a value in the clubhouse you could never fathom. It's real. I see it.
Wrong thread, but I want to read an actual in-depth analysis of him that goes beyond 140 characters. I'm open to learning. But so far I've been completely unconvinced by people who think he has a place on this team.
Someone on Twitter yesterday told me that the difference between the best and worst framer in the league was 40 runs over a full season. The problem is that assumes 1.) Ross it the best framer in the league 2.) the Cubs would replace him with the worst framer in the league. Even if you accepted those two generous conclusions, Ross's bat over a full season would probably approach -40 run territory, so ... what's his value again? Not to mention the opportunity cost of using a roster spot on a guy who can't hit.
The Ross thing is quite simple, really. It's such an obviously stupid thing to do that people cannot believe a bunch of obviously smart people are doing it, so whatever bullshit explanation they provide for it has to be true.
Hell, look how Maddon and Len Kasper won't even admit Ross is Lester's personal catcher, because they can't speak to the obvious truth of why he's on the roster. I'd rather they just come out and say he's there because Lester wants him there rather than have my faith in the front office slowly undermined by people telling me over and over again how much they value terrible baseball players who are good "clubhouse guys." That's cro-magnon thinking from people who should be above it.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 08:47:28 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 08:26:50 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 08:25:21 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 18, 2015, 10:38:06 PM
What the fuck was that 8th inning, Joe
It was so bad there had to be an ulterior motive. There's no way Joe thought that sequence of events best set them up to score runs. He had a quote after the game about wanting to get guys in the game because "everyone on this team has a role." Maybe he's trying to send a message to the front office to get him a better bench.
Then again, it's not like this is the first time he's done this.
But seriously, stop yanking your good hitters in close games for pinch runners. And stop letting David Ross hit ever.
INTREPID READER SAHEDEV SHARMA:
Woah, Eli. I've talked to several equipment managers about this, and they all say David Ross has a value in the clubhouse you could never fathom. It's real. I see it.
Wrong thread, but I want to read an actual in-depth analysis of him that goes beyond 140 characters. I'm open to learning. But so far I've been completely unconvinced by people who think he has a place on this team.
Someone on Twitter yesterday told me that the difference between the best and worst framer in the league was 40 runs over a full season. The problem is that assumes 1.) Ross it the best framer in the league 2.) the Cubs would replace him with the worst framer in the league. Even if you accepted those two generous conclusions, Ross's bat over a full season would probably approach -40 run territory, so ... what's his value again? Not to mention the opportunity cost of using a roster spot on a guy who can't hit.
The Ross thing is quite simple, really. It's such an obviously stupid thing to do that people cannot believe a bunch of obviously smart people are doing it, so whatever bullshit explanation they provide for it has to be true.
Hell, look how Maddon and Len Kasper won't even admit Ross is Lester's personal catcher, because they can't speak to the obvious truth of why he's on the roster. I'd rather they just come out and say he's there because Lester wants him there rather than have my faith in the front office slowly undermined by people telling me over and over again how much they value terrible baseball players who are good "clubhouse guys." That's cro-magnon thinking from people who should be above it.
Something something let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Managers don't bat 1.000. Who knows what this wack job was thinking last night? He does weird shit, either for effect or because he really believes it. Frankly I don't care how he goes about it or how he explains it. On balance, the results have been good when you consider that he even
has guys like Baxter and Ross at his "disposal" (in addition to Mack Seizure, Hoon-Your Lago, Herrera etc.).
Further, they (and we) weren't planning on Coghlan sucking eggs the first 6 weeks, and they had also hoped Denorfia would be Coghlans' platoon partner, but the latter was injured for the same time period, much like Tommy LaStella, who's been injured or dead all year, and even LaStella's presence was to have augmented the development of Alcantara, who shit the tub and got sent back.
Also their #4 starter was the pitching equivalent of Coghlan the first 6 weeks, and #5 remains a goddamn mystery brew. The bullpen has also been wracked with injuries (Ramirez seems like a big one), and their closer has been unsteady of late.
Oh, and Soler didn't produce like we hoped early on, and when it seemed like he started to warm up,
he got hurt.
And yet in spite of all that, and in spite of their manager seemingly kicking one away by diluting his talent in the late innings of a game they eventually lost, they have the 7th best record in baseball. Last night was frustrating, but they'll be plenty more nights like that because baseball. I mean, I hate David Ross too--and I'm not lending any credence to what Sahadev suggested either-- but you getting upset about how he discusses the situation with the lead play-by-play man is a bit much.
So I'd tell you top maybe try stop losing your shit when the Cubs lose a game, but nothing seems to make you lose your shit more than when someone suggests you stop losing it, so I'ma just gonna gently suggest you maybe see how this plays out.
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Something something let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Managers don't bat 1.000. Who knows what this wack job was thinking last night? He does weird shit, either for effect or because he really believes it. Frankly I don't care how he goes about it or how he explains it. On balance, the results have been good when you consider that he even has guys like Baxter and Ross at his "disposal" (in addition to Mack Seizure, Hoon-Your Lago, Herrera etc.).
Further, they (and we) weren't planning on Coghlan sucking eggs the first 6 weeks, and they had also hoped Denorfia would be Coghlans' platoon partner, but the latter was injured for the same time period, much like Tommy LaStrella, who's been injured or dead all year, and even LaStella's presence was to have augmented the development of Alcantara, who shit the tub and got sent back.
Also their #4 starter was the pitching equivalent of Coghlan the first 6 weeks, and #5 remains a goddamn mystery brew. The bullpen has also been wracked with injuries (Ramirez seems like a big one), and their closer has been unsteady of late.
Oh, and Soler didn't produce like we hoped early on, and when it seemed like he started to warm up, he got hurt.
And yet in spite of all that, and in spite of their manager seemingly kicking one away by diluting his talent in the late innings of a game they eventually lost, they have the 7th best record in baseball. Last night was frustrating, but they'll be plenty more nights like that because baseball. I mean, I hate David Ross too--and I'm not lending any credence to what Sahadev suggested either-- but you getting upset about how he discusses the situation with the lead play-by-play man is a bit much.
So I'd tell you top maybe try stop losing your shit when the Cubs lose a game, but nothing seems to make you lose your shit more than when someone suggests you stop losing it, so I'ma just gonna gently suggest you maybe see how this plays out.
Jesus, I'm not losing my shit at a Cubs loss. The loss was fine, it happens. I'm criticizing specific moves Joe Maddon made, which should be allowed. I like the guy too, he's not infallible.
As for the Ross thing, I wasn't even commenting on what Maddon told Kasper. I was saying Maddon AND Kasper are just two guys who have been asked about Ross being Lester's personal catcher and have denied the obvious.
I'm not freaking out about anything at all, but I'm really sick of having to be talked off a ledge I'm not even on because I'm bitching about fucking David Ross.
I mean if anyone can find any evidence whatsoever of me actually saying the Cubs are DOOMED or something, fine, but if you want to single me out for being one of 5 million people bitching about David Ross and Joe's weird 8th inning stroke last night like I'm some common Fro Dog, bugger off. Hell I spent last night after the loss talking with Sahedev and others on twitter about why there are so many reasons for optimism with this team and why guys like that Jeff Aronson dude who write the Cubs off whenever they're down 2 runs early in a game are fucking irritating.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 08:47:28 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 08:26:50 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 08:25:21 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 18, 2015, 10:38:06 PM
What the fuck was that 8th inning, Joe
It was so bad there had to be an ulterior motive. There's no way Joe thought that sequence of events best set them up to score runs. He had a quote after the game about wanting to get guys in the game because "everyone on this team has a role." Maybe he's trying to send a message to the front office to get him a better bench.
Then again, it's not like this is the first time he's done this.
But seriously, stop yanking your good hitters in close games for pinch runners. And stop letting David Ross hit ever.
INTREPID READER SAHEDEV SHARMA:
Woah, Eli. I've talked to several equipment managers about this, and they all say David Ross has a value in the clubhouse you could never fathom. It's real. I see it.
Wrong thread, but I want to read an actual in-depth analysis of him that goes beyond 140 characters. I'm open to learning. But so far I've been completely unconvinced by people who think he has a place on this team.
Someone on Twitter yesterday told me that the difference between the best and worst framer in the league was 40 runs over a full season. The problem is that assumes 1.) Ross it the best framer in the league 2.) the Cubs would replace him with the worst framer in the league. Even if you accepted those two generous conclusions, Ross's bat over a full season would probably approach -40 run territory, so ... what's his value again? Not to mention the opportunity cost of using a roster spot on a guy who can't hit.
The Ross thing is quite simple, really. It's such an obviously stupid thing to do that people cannot believe a bunch of obviously smart people are doing it, so whatever bullshit explanation they provide for it has to be true.
Hell, look how Maddon and Len Kasper won't even admit Ross is Lester's personal catcher, because they can't speak to the obvious truth of why he's on the roster. I'd rather they just come out and say he's there because Lester wants him there rather than have my faith in the front office slowly undermined by people telling me over and over again how much they value terrible baseball players who are good "clubhouse guys." That's cro-magnon thinking from people who should be above it.
I'd rather they not do that because then the pressure is put on Lester to explain it. And his job is to throw baseballs hard, not talk to tools with notebooks about stuff. There are people responsible for doing that and whether they do it well or not doesn't interest me as much as it does, say, Skip Bayless.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:11:53 AM
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Something something let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Managers don't bat 1.000. Who knows what this wack job was thinking last night? He does weird shit, either for effect or because he really believes it. Frankly I don't care how he goes about it or how he explains it. On balance, the results have been good when you consider that he even has guys like Baxter and Ross at his "disposal" (in addition to Mack Seizure, Hoon-Your Lago, Herrera etc.).
Further, they (and we) weren't planning on Coghlan sucking eggs the first 6 weeks, and they had also hoped Denorfia would be Coghlans' platoon partner, but the latter was injured for the same time period, much like Tommy LaStrella, who's been injured or dead all year, and even LaStella's presence was to have augmented the development of Alcantara, who shit the tub and got sent back.
Also their #4 starter was the pitching equivalent of Coghlan the first 6 weeks, and #5 remains a goddamn mystery brew. The bullpen has also been wracked with injuries (Ramirez seems like a big one), and their closer has been unsteady of late.
Oh, and Soler didn't produce like we hoped early on, and when it seemed like he started to warm up, he got hurt.
And yet in spite of all that, and in spite of their manager seemingly kicking one away by diluting his talent in the late innings of a game they eventually lost, they have the 7th best record in baseball. Last night was frustrating, but they'll be plenty more nights like that because baseball. I mean, I hate David Ross too--and I'm not lending any credence to what Sahadev suggested either-- but you getting upset about how he discusses the situation with the lead play-by-play man is a bit much.
So I'd tell you top maybe try stop losing your shit when the Cubs lose a game, but nothing seems to make you lose your shit more than when someone suggests you stop losing it, so I'ma just gonna gently suggest you maybe see how this plays out.
Jesus, I'm not losing my shit at a Cubs loss. The loss was fine, it happens. I'm criticizing specific moves Joe Maddon made, which should be allowed. I like the guy too, he's not infallible.
As for the Ross thing, I wasn't even commenting on what Maddon told Kasper. I was saying Maddon AND Kasper are just two guys who have been asked about Ross being Lester's personal catcher and have denied the obvious.
I'm not freaking out about anything at all, but I'm really sick of having to be talked off a ledge I'm not even on because I'm bitching about fucking David Ross.
I mean if anyone can find any evidence whatsoever of me actually saying the Cubs are DOOMED or something, fine, but if you want to single me out for being one of 5 million people bitching about David Ross and Joe's weird 8th inning stroke last night like I'm some common Fro Dog, bugger off. Hell I spent last night after the loss talking with Sahedev and others on twitter about why there are so many reasons for optimism with this team and why guys like that Jeff Aronson dude who write the Cubs off whenever they're down 2 runs early in a game are fucking irritating.
*sips coffee*
(||)
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:11:53 AM
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Something something let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Managers don't bat 1.000. Who knows what this wack job was thinking last night? He does weird shit, either for effect or because he really believes it. Frankly I don't care how he goes about it or how he explains it. On balance, the results have been good when you consider that he even has guys like Baxter and Ross at his "disposal" (in addition to Mack Seizure, Hoon-Your Lago, Herrera etc.).
Further, they (and we) weren't planning on Coghlan sucking eggs the first 6 weeks, and they had also hoped Denorfia would be Coghlans' platoon partner, but the latter was injured for the same time period, much like Tommy LaStrella, who's been injured or dead all year, and even LaStella's presence was to have augmented the development of Alcantara, who shit the tub and got sent back.
Also their #4 starter was the pitching equivalent of Coghlan the first 6 weeks, and #5 remains a goddamn mystery brew. The bullpen has also been wracked with injuries (Ramirez seems like a big one), and their closer has been unsteady of late.
Oh, and Soler didn't produce like we hoped early on, and when it seemed like he started to warm up, he got hurt.
And yet in spite of all that, and in spite of their manager seemingly kicking one away by diluting his talent in the late innings of a game they eventually lost, they have the 7th best record in baseball. Last night was frustrating, but they'll be plenty more nights like that because baseball. I mean, I hate David Ross too--and I'm not lending any credence to what Sahadev suggested either-- but you getting upset about how he discusses the situation with the lead play-by-play man is a bit much.
So I'd tell you top maybe try stop losing your shit when the Cubs lose a game, but nothing seems to make you lose your shit more than when someone suggests you stop losing it, so I'ma just gonna gently suggest you maybe see how this plays out.
Jesus, I'm not losing my shit at a Cubs loss. The loss was fine, it happens. I'm criticizing specific moves Joe Maddon made, which should be allowed. I like the guy too, he's not infallible.
As for the Ross thing, I wasn't even commenting on what Maddon told Kasper. I was saying Maddon AND Kasper are just two guys who have been asked about Ross being Lester's personal catcher and have denied the obvious.
I'm not freaking out about anything at all, but I'm really sick of having to be talked off a ledge I'm not even on because I'm bitching about fucking David Ross.
I mean if anyone can find any evidence whatsoever of me actually saying the Cubs are DOOMED or something, fine, but if you want to single me out for being one of 5 million people bitching about David Ross and Joe's weird 8th inning stroke last night like I'm some common Fro Dog, bugger off. Hell I spent last night after the loss talking with Sahedev and others on twitter about why there are so many reasons for optimism with this team and why guys like that Jeff Aronson dude who write the Cubs off whenever they're down 2 runs early in a game are fucking irritating.
I don't follow 5 million people.
I do follow you though, and your tweets always stand out in my timeline as strikingly petulant--not just a one-time-get-it-off-my-chest vent but a stream of ANGERRAGE tweets.
Maybe I should follow Tommy Cooks again so you don't stand out. He announced to everyone, back in early May after a tough Cardinals loss, that people who didn't agree with him that that one particular early-season come-from-ahead loss was a BIG GAME were "idiots" and should stop following him so I obliged. I could always re-follow him so that, in combination with yourself, receive a rich and luxurious tapestry of Twitter bed-wetting after every close or tough loss.
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 09:22:29 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:11:53 AM
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Something something let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Managers don't bat 1.000. Who knows what this wack job was thinking last night? He does weird shit, either for effect or because he really believes it. Frankly I don't care how he goes about it or how he explains it. On balance, the results have been good when you consider that he even has guys like Baxter and Ross at his "disposal" (in addition to Mack Seizure, Hoon-Your Lago, Herrera etc.).
Further, they (and we) weren't planning on Coghlan sucking eggs the first 6 weeks, and they had also hoped Denorfia would be Coghlans' platoon partner, but the latter was injured for the same time period, much like Tommy LaStrella, who's been injured or dead all year, and even LaStella's presence was to have augmented the development of Alcantara, who shit the tub and got sent back.
Also their #4 starter was the pitching equivalent of Coghlan the first 6 weeks, and #5 remains a goddamn mystery brew. The bullpen has also been wracked with injuries (Ramirez seems like a big one), and their closer has been unsteady of late.
Oh, and Soler didn't produce like we hoped early on, and when it seemed like he started to warm up, he got hurt.
And yet in spite of all that, and in spite of their manager seemingly kicking one away by diluting his talent in the late innings of a game they eventually lost, they have the 7th best record in baseball. Last night was frustrating, but they'll be plenty more nights like that because baseball. I mean, I hate David Ross too--and I'm not lending any credence to what Sahadev suggested either-- but you getting upset about how he discusses the situation with the lead play-by-play man is a bit much.
So I'd tell you top maybe try stop losing your shit when the Cubs lose a game, but nothing seems to make you lose your shit more than when someone suggests you stop losing it, so I'ma just gonna gently suggest you maybe see how this plays out.
Jesus, I'm not losing my shit at a Cubs loss. The loss was fine, it happens. I'm criticizing specific moves Joe Maddon made, which should be allowed. I like the guy too, he's not infallible.
As for the Ross thing, I wasn't even commenting on what Maddon told Kasper. I was saying Maddon AND Kasper are just two guys who have been asked about Ross being Lester's personal catcher and have denied the obvious.
I'm not freaking out about anything at all, but I'm really sick of having to be talked off a ledge I'm not even on because I'm bitching about fucking David Ross.
I mean if anyone can find any evidence whatsoever of me actually saying the Cubs are DOOMED or something, fine, but if you want to single me out for being one of 5 million people bitching about David Ross and Joe's weird 8th inning stroke last night like I'm some common Fro Dog, bugger off. Hell I spent last night after the loss talking with Sahedev and others on twitter about why there are so many reasons for optimism with this team and why guys like that Jeff Aronson dude who write the Cubs off whenever they're down 2 runs early in a game are fucking irritating.
*sips coffee*
(||)
Bitching about David Ross is the worst.
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 09:27:26 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 09:22:29 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:11:53 AM
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Something something let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Managers don't bat 1.000. Who knows what this wack job was thinking last night? He does weird shit, either for effect or because he really believes it. Frankly I don't care how he goes about it or how he explains it. On balance, the results have been good when you consider that he even has guys like Baxter and Ross at his "disposal" (in addition to Mack Seizure, Hoon-Your Lago, Herrera etc.).
Further, they (and we) weren't planning on Coghlan sucking eggs the first 6 weeks, and they had also hoped Denorfia would be Coghlans' platoon partner, but the latter was injured for the same time period, much like Tommy LaStrella, who's been injured or dead all year, and even LaStella's presence was to have augmented the development of Alcantara, who shit the tub and got sent back.
Also their #4 starter was the pitching equivalent of Coghlan the first 6 weeks, and #5 remains a goddamn mystery brew. The bullpen has also been wracked with injuries (Ramirez seems like a big one), and their closer has been unsteady of late.
Oh, and Soler didn't produce like we hoped early on, and when it seemed like he started to warm up, he got hurt.
And yet in spite of all that, and in spite of their manager seemingly kicking one away by diluting his talent in the late innings of a game they eventually lost, they have the 7th best record in baseball. Last night was frustrating, but they'll be plenty more nights like that because baseball. I mean, I hate David Ross too--and I'm not lending any credence to what Sahadev suggested either-- but you getting upset about how he discusses the situation with the lead play-by-play man is a bit much.
So I'd tell you top maybe try stop losing your shit when the Cubs lose a game, but nothing seems to make you lose your shit more than when someone suggests you stop losing it, so I'ma just gonna gently suggest you maybe see how this plays out.
Jesus, I'm not losing my shit at a Cubs loss. The loss was fine, it happens. I'm criticizing specific moves Joe Maddon made, which should be allowed. I like the guy too, he's not infallible.
As for the Ross thing, I wasn't even commenting on what Maddon told Kasper. I was saying Maddon AND Kasper are just two guys who have been asked about Ross being Lester's personal catcher and have denied the obvious.
I'm not freaking out about anything at all, but I'm really sick of having to be talked off a ledge I'm not even on because I'm bitching about fucking David Ross.
I mean if anyone can find any evidence whatsoever of me actually saying the Cubs are DOOMED or something, fine, but if you want to single me out for being one of 5 million people bitching about David Ross and Joe's weird 8th inning stroke last night like I'm some common Fro Dog, bugger off. Hell I spent last night after the loss talking with Sahedev and others on twitter about why there are so many reasons for optimism with this team and why guys like that Jeff Aronson dude who write the Cubs off whenever they're down 2 runs early in a game are fucking irritating.
*sips coffee*
(||)
Bitching about David Ross is the worst.
No, bitching about fucking him is the worst. Ungrateful shits. At least you're fucking David Ross.
Three tweets about how pinch hitting David Ross is stupid last night. Three. That's strikingly petulant according to the man who has waged a ten year war against Ryan Dempster for one blown save and a bad Harry Caray impersonation.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:36:02 AM
Three tweets about how pinch hitting David Ross is stupid last night. Three. That's strikingly petulant according to the man who has waged a ten year war against Ryan Dempster for one blown save and a bad Harry Caray impersonation.
I'm also counting 300 posts on this message board.
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 09:39:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:36:02 AM
Three tweets about how pinch hitting David Ross is stupid last night. Three. That's strikingly petulant according to the man who has waged a ten year war against Ryan Dempster for one blown save and a bad Harry Caray impersonation.
I'm also counting 300 posts on this message board.
I mean, fine, but I feel like even the "whatever David Ross is just Lester's binkie he plays once a week stop devoting so many words to him" crowd should agree it's fair to bitch when Joe replaces a functional major league hitter with him in the 8th inning in a crucial spot. But whatever. I've obviously taken on too much water to say anything negative about this year's Cubs (even when I'm not bitching about the Cubs, so much as one particular Cub and the mis-use of him), without the response being "TL; DR: SKO is off his rocker again", so I'll stop.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:43:01 AM
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 09:39:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:36:02 AM
Three tweets about how pinch hitting David Ross is stupid last night. Three. That's strikingly petulant according to the man who has waged a ten year war against Ryan Dempster for one blown save and a bad Harry Caray impersonation.
I'm also counting 300 posts on this message board.
I mean, fine, but I feel like even the "whatever David Ross is just Lester's binkie he plays once a week stop devoting so many words to him" crowd should agree it's fair to bitch when Joe replaces a functional major league hitter with him in the 8th inning in a crucial spot. But whatever. I've obviously taken on too much water to say anything negative about this year's Cubs without the response being "TL; DR: SKO is off his rocker again", so I'll stop.
It's worth nothing because Eli and many others have rightfully proven that Ross' value is in mascot and whatever pitch framing he might do only - but it's not just "he's Lester's binkie". Apparently he's VERY popular in the clubhouse and has been a large part of instilling a culture that Maddon and the front office want these players to be a part of. Rizzo is very, very bought in on a personal level - and that's from people who know both of them personally. My source on that is Jason Katz, a nice person on Twitter, who for some reason tells me stuff and worked for MLB media for like 10 years.
It may not matter at all because we have the numbers to prove he is hurting the team and I get that. It would be GREAT if Ross could get DFA'd and hired as a coach today. But that's not going to happen just right now. If Ross' presence gives the actual leaders on this team some of the skills that come with leadership and all the other intangible bullshit that people who love numbers love to hate, that's still pretty good. And if it means the Cubs don't win the world series this year but win it next year and the next 10 after that, that's fine too.
Schwarber's going to force them to make a decision sooner than later. Hopefully he tears the PCL a fourth asshole. And the Pirates won't win every single game from here on out.
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 09:48:12 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:43:01 AM
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 09:39:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:36:02 AM
Three tweets about how pinch hitting David Ross is stupid last night. Three. That's strikingly petulant according to the man who has waged a ten year war against Ryan Dempster for one blown save and a bad Harry Caray impersonation.
I'm also counting 300 posts on this message board.
I mean, fine, but I feel like even the "whatever David Ross is just Lester's binkie he plays once a week stop devoting so many words to him" crowd should agree it's fair to bitch when Joe replaces a functional major league hitter with him in the 8th inning in a crucial spot. But whatever. I've obviously taken on too much water to say anything negative about this year's Cubs without the response being "TL; DR: SKO is off his rocker again", so I'll stop.
It's worth nothing because Eli and many others have rightfully proven that Ross' value is in mascot and whatever pitch framing he might do only - but it's not just "he's Lester's binkie". Apparently he's VERY popular in the clubhouse and has been a large part of instilling a culture that Maddon and the front office want these players to be a part of. Rizzo is very, very bought in on a personal level - and that's from people who know both of them personally. My source on that is Jason Katz, a nice person on Twitter, who for some reason tells me stuff and worked for MLB media for like 10 years.
It may not matter at all because we have the numbers to prove he is hurting the team and I get that. It would be GREAT if Ross could get DFA'd and hired as a coach today. But that's not going to happen just right now. If Ross' presence gives the actual leaders on this team some of the skills that come with leadership and all the other intangible bullshit that people who love numbers love to hate, that's still pretty good. And if it means the Cubs don't win the world series this year but win it next year and the next 10 after that, that's fine too.
Schwarber's going to force them to make a decision sooner than later. Hopefully he tears the PCL a fourth asshole. And the Pirates won't win every single game from here on out.
Again, feel I should clarify here: I'm not worried about these Cubs in the slightest, Ross or no Ross. I don't think they've ever fallen more than a game or so out of the wildcard and they've held onto one of those spots for seemingly 80% of the season. Every site loves their chances to make the playoffs and so do I. The kids are only going to get better.
That said, David Ross is an obvious weakness I'd like addressed and it feels weird that this community in particular (one that nearly rioted when the Cubs threatened to keep Kevin Millar over Chad Tracy one spring training) is just cool with being told "eh he's great in the clubhouse" or whatever, and it's weird that intangible bullshit we'd regard as being awful nonsense if it were the BFIBB talking about some scrappy 37 year old white dude is fine when it comes from guys we want to like. It's still nonsense. But yeah, in the long run it's not hurting them that much, I just would prefer it not be hurting them at all.
And hell, I'd come to stop bitching about Ross in his actual role as backup catcher because, fine, whatever, those guys barely ever hit anyway, but then Joe felt the need to bring in a guy with a .497 OPS vs lefties as a pinch hitter solely because he's right handed and the pitcher was left handed and man that was disappointingly simplistic and wrong thinking from a manager who is smarter than that.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:53:27 AM
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 09:48:12 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:43:01 AM
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 09:39:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 09:36:02 AM
Three tweets about how pinch hitting David Ross is stupid last night. Three. That's strikingly petulant according to the man who has waged a ten year war against Ryan Dempster for one blown save and a bad Harry Caray impersonation.
I'm also counting 300 posts on this message board.
I mean, fine, but I feel like even the "whatever David Ross is just Lester's binkie he plays once a week stop devoting so many words to him" crowd should agree it's fair to bitch when Joe replaces a functional major league hitter with him in the 8th inning in a crucial spot. But whatever. I've obviously taken on too much water to say anything negative about this year's Cubs without the response being "TL; DR: SKO is off his rocker again", so I'll stop.
It's worth nothing because Eli and many others have rightfully proven that Ross' value is in mascot and whatever pitch framing he might do only - but it's not just "he's Lester's binkie". Apparently he's VERY popular in the clubhouse and has been a large part of instilling a culture that Maddon and the front office want these players to be a part of. Rizzo is very, very bought in on a personal level - and that's from people who know both of them personally. My source on that is Jason Katz, a nice person on Twitter, who for some reason tells me stuff and worked for MLB media for like 10 years.
It may not matter at all because we have the numbers to prove he is hurting the team and I get that. It would be GREAT if Ross could get DFA'd and hired as a coach today. But that's not going to happen just right now. If Ross' presence gives the actual leaders on this team some of the skills that come with leadership and all the other intangible bullshit that people who love numbers love to hate, that's still pretty good. And if it means the Cubs don't win the world series this year but win it next year and the next 10 after that, that's fine too.
Schwarber's going to force them to make a decision sooner than later. Hopefully he tears the PCL a fourth asshole. And the Pirates won't win every single game from here on out.
Again, feel I should clarify here: I'm not worried about these Cubs in the slightest, Ross or no Ross. I don't think they've ever fallen more than a game or so out of the wildcard and they've held onto one of those spots for seemingly 80% of the season. Every site loves their chances to make the playoffs and so do I. The kids are only going to get better.
That said, David Ross is an obvious weakness I'd like addressed and it feels weird that this community in particular (one that nearly rioted when the Cubs threatened to keep Kevin Millar over Chad Tracy one spring training) is just cool with being told "eh he's great in the clubhouse" or whatever, and it's weird that intangible bullshit we'd regard as being awful nonsense if it were the BFIBB talking about some scrappy 37 year old white dude is fine when it comes from guys we want to like. It's still nonsense. But yeah, in the long run it's not hurting them that much, I just would prefer it not be hurting them at all.
It is - and I won't cry a single tear when he leaves. But I'm also trying to see it from the point of view where there are really smart baseball people who seem to advocate keeping him. Obviously there are reasons.
And for what it's worth pinch hitting Baxter for Denorfia was even worse. At least Coghlan has been shit vs left handers so I get wanting to not let him face a lefty. Denorfia is hitting .395 with a .978 OPS in 38 PAs vs RHP so far this year and Mike Baxter is Mike Baxter.
It was bizarre. I like Joe a lot and the culture he's creating is very good and important and with this team that's arguably his far more important role, but I'm just legitimately surprised he's been so weirdly stubborn and antiquated with his thinking about righty/lefty matchups all year.
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Well it's for 2.5 million next year. I'm willing to bet they can eat that if they are smart enough to realize Schwarber doesn't belong in the minors next year, and I think they are. But now I've responded you to turning this conversation back into one about Ross and people will choose to yell at me again.
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Yeah well if he's this bad all year they won't carry him again. There's no way. I'm not even that pessimistic.
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 10:11:41 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Yeah well if he's this bad all year they won't carry him again. There's no way. I'm not even that pessimistic.
Well I mean you say that but there was nothing in his performance the last two years to suggest he wouldn't be this bad at 37 fucking years old. Expecting him to get better would be purely nonsensical.
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 10:11:41 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Yeah well if he's this bad all year they won't carry him again. There's no way. I'm not even that pessimistic.
How much worse can he really get? We all know he's not going to get better. The catcher aging curve is brutal and at 38, he's basically already off the curve. If they still think he's worth rostering when he has a .552 OPS, they'll probably be happy to carry him if he has a .452 OPS too.
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:20:37 AM
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 10:11:41 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Yeah well if he's this bad all year they won't carry him again. There's no way. I'm not even that pessimistic.
How much worse can he really get? We all know he's not going to get better. The catcher aging curve is brutal and at 38, he's basically already off the curve. If they still think he's worth rostering when he has a .552 OPS, they'll probably be happy to carry him if he has a .452 OPS too.
His salary would be too high to justify for a bullpen catcher but, in a pinch, if something were to, say, happen to RV's neighbor...
to avoid thread derailment:
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:14:19 AM
...I don't think hitting Baxter for Denorfia against McCallister is that weird.
Baxter: .507 OPS vs RHP this year, .684 for his career.
Denorfia: .978 OPS vs RHP this year, .686 for his career.
I deem that weird.
I'd say the #'s in both first cases suffer from a little ole' smallsamplesizeenza...but interesting that the career #'s are similar, lending credence to Madman SKO's notion that ole' Progressive Joe may in fact be a little stuck in this otherwise "old-school" idea of handedness-based matchups.
Well that and Mike Baxter is Mike Baxter, and Denorfia, last year's injury plagued issues aside, is at least a major league player. I don't really see the point in pinch hitting Mike Baxter for any non pitcher on the roster except maybe David Ross. I get that Joe has a weak bench. I wouldn't blame him at all if Coghlan and Denorfia had both made outs and failed to tie the game. I don't get inserting your weak bench into the game when there was no reason to.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
to avoid thread derailment:
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:14:19 AM
...I don't think hitting Baxter for Denorfia against McCallister is that weird.
Baxter: .507 OPS vs RHP this year, .684 for his career.
Denorfia: .978 OPS vs RHP this year, .686 for his career.
I deem that weird.
I'd say the #'s in both first cases suffer from a little ole' smallsamplesizeenza...but interesting that the career #'s are similar, lending credence to Madman SKO's notion that ole' Progressive Joe may in fact be a little stuck in this otherwise "old-school" idea of handedness-based matchups.
Well that and Mike Baxter is Mike Baxter, and Denorfia, last year's injury plagued issues aside, is at least a major league player. I don't really see the point in pinch hitting Mike Baxter for any non pitcher on the roster except maybe David Ross. I get that Joe has a weak bench. I wouldn't blame him at all if Coghlan and Denorfia had both made outs and failed to tie the game. I don't get inserting your weak bench into the game when there was no reason to.
If Baxter's on the team, he should hit in that situation. It's not like he took down Soler or Bryant or even Castro. It's not that hard to understand. McAllister was throwing pills last night. I don't think it's that big of a deal especially in the 8th inning in an AL park where it matters little if you lighten your bench for extra innings. He could have not hit Baxter and Denorfia could have made an out and a bunch of people would ask why they didn't hit Baxter. It's just a thing Maddon did that didn't work. It's not worth criticizing. It's not even eyebrow raising. It's almost like it never even happened.
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:31:31 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:20:37 AM
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 10:11:41 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Yeah well if he's this bad all year they won't carry him again. There's no way. I'm not even that pessimistic.
How much worse can he really get? We all know he's not going to get better. The catcher aging curve is brutal and at 38, he's basically already off the curve. If they still think he's worth rostering when he has a .552 OPS, they'll probably be happy to carry him if he has a .452 OPS too.
His salary would be too high to justify for a bullpen catcher but, in a pinch, if something were to, say, happen to RV's neighbor...
It would be my first kill and I might go to jail, but if it would get SKO to stop talking about Davis Ross I think it would be worth it.
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:45:14 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
to avoid thread derailment:
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:14:19 AM
...I don't think hitting Baxter for Denorfia against McCallister is that weird.
Baxter: .507 OPS vs RHP this year, .684 for his career.
Denorfia: .978 OPS vs RHP this year, .686 for his career.
I deem that weird.
I'd say the #'s in both first cases suffer from a little ole' smallsamplesizeenza...but interesting that the career #'s are similar, lending credence to Madman SKO's notion that ole' Progressive Joe may in fact be a little stuck in this otherwise "old-school" idea of handedness-based matchups.
Well that and Mike Baxter is Mike Baxter, and Denorfia, last year's injury plagued issues aside, is at least a major league player. I don't really see the point in pinch hitting Mike Baxter for any non pitcher on the roster except maybe David Ross. I get that Joe has a weak bench. I wouldn't blame him at all if Coghlan and Denorfia had both made outs and failed to tie the game. I don't get inserting your weak bench into the game when there was no reason to.
If Baxter's on the team, he should hit in that situation. It's not like he took down Soler or Bryant or even Castro. It's not that hard to understand. McAllister was throwing pills last night. I don't think it's that big of a deal especially in the 8th inning in an AL park where it matters little if you lighten your bench for extra innings. He could have not hit Baxter and Denorfia could have made an out and a bunch of people would ask why they didn't hit Baxter. It's just a thing Maddon did that didn't work. It's not worth criticizing. It's not even eyebrow raising. It's almost like it never even happened.
This is bullshit. There's not one person in the world who would have asked why Joe Maddon didn't use Mike Baxter in a game. I refuse to believe these people exist. Accept a little criticism of an otherwise likeable manager and move on, but don't just insult the human race by acting like there are people out there clamoring for Mike Baxter to ever hit ever.
And Mike Baxter's not on the roster to take key at bats vs. RHP late in the game. Mike Baxter is there because Tommy La Stella and Mike Olt and Jorge Soler and Javy Baez are hurt and Arismendy Alcantara regressed beyond all reasonable expectation and maybe because there is no God and if Coghlan gets hurt or Denorfia's paper mache hammys disintegrate again they need someone to stand in the outfield, but he's not there to be used if you can actually avoid it.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:45:14 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
to avoid thread derailment:
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:14:19 AM
...I don't think hitting Baxter for Denorfia against McCallister is that weird.
Baxter: .507 OPS vs RHP this year, .684 for his career.
Denorfia: .978 OPS vs RHP this year, .686 for his career.
I deem that weird.
I'd say the #'s in both first cases suffer from a little ole' smallsamplesizeenza...but interesting that the career #'s are similar, lending credence to Madman SKO's notion that ole' Progressive Joe may in fact be a little stuck in this otherwise "old-school" idea of handedness-based matchups.
Well that and Mike Baxter is Mike Baxter, and Denorfia, last year's injury plagued issues aside, is at least a major league player. I don't really see the point in pinch hitting Mike Baxter for any non pitcher on the roster except maybe David Ross. I get that Joe has a weak bench. I wouldn't blame him at all if Coghlan and Denorfia had both made outs and failed to tie the game. I don't get inserting your weak bench into the game when there was no reason to.
If Baxter's on the team, he should hit in that situation. It's not like he took down Soler or Bryant or even Castro. It's not that hard to understand. McAllister was throwing pills last night. I don't think it's that big of a deal especially in the 8th inning in an AL park where it matters little if you lighten your bench for extra innings. He could have not hit Baxter and Denorfia could have made an out and a bunch of people would ask why they didn't hit Baxter. It's just a thing Maddon did that didn't work. It's not worth criticizing. It's not even eyebrow raising. It's almost like it never even happened.
This is bullshit. There's not one person in the world who would have asked why Joe Maddon didn't use Mike Baxter in a game. I refuse to believe these people exist. Accept a little criticism of an otherwise likeable manager and move on, but don't just insult the human race by acting like there are people out there clamoring for Mike Baxter to ever hit ever.
Joe Maddon doesn't exist? Now this IS getting weird and I'm going to stop.
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:55:56 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:45:14 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
to avoid thread derailment:
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:14:19 AM
...I don't think hitting Baxter for Denorfia against McCallister is that weird.
Baxter: .507 OPS vs RHP this year, .684 for his career.
Denorfia: .978 OPS vs RHP this year, .686 for his career.
I deem that weird.
I'd say the #'s in both first cases suffer from a little ole' smallsamplesizeenza...but interesting that the career #'s are similar, lending credence to Madman SKO's notion that ole' Progressive Joe may in fact be a little stuck in this otherwise "old-school" idea of handedness-based matchups.
Well that and Mike Baxter is Mike Baxter, and Denorfia, last year's injury plagued issues aside, is at least a major league player. I don't really see the point in pinch hitting Mike Baxter for any non pitcher on the roster except maybe David Ross. I get that Joe has a weak bench. I wouldn't blame him at all if Coghlan and Denorfia had both made outs and failed to tie the game. I don't get inserting your weak bench into the game when there was no reason to.
If Baxter's on the team, he should hit in that situation. It's not like he took down Soler or Bryant or even Castro. It's not that hard to understand. McAllister was throwing pills last night. I don't think it's that big of a deal especially in the 8th inning in an AL park where it matters little if you lighten your bench for extra innings. He could have not hit Baxter and Denorfia could have made an out and a bunch of people would ask why they didn't hit Baxter. It's just a thing Maddon did that didn't work. It's not worth criticizing. It's not even eyebrow raising. It's almost like it never even happened.
This is bullshit. There's not one person in the world who would have asked why Joe Maddon didn't use Mike Baxter in a game. I refuse to believe these people exist. Accept a little criticism of an otherwise likeable manager and move on, but don't just insult the human race by acting like there are people out there clamoring for Mike Baxter to ever hit ever.
Joe Maddon doesn't exist? Now this IS getting weird and I'm going to stop.
He exists and he did a weird, anti-logic, anti-stats thing last night and some people tried to criticize him for it (while still acknowledging his strengths as a manager anyway)and others are trying to stop those people because I guess they see Mike Baxter as the Matthew Dellavedova of baseball and thus have a soft spot for him or something.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:59:51 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:55:56 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:45:14 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
to avoid thread derailment:
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2015, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on June 19, 2015, 10:14:19 AM
...I don't think hitting Baxter for Denorfia against McCallister is that weird.
Baxter: .507 OPS vs RHP this year, .684 for his career.
Denorfia: .978 OPS vs RHP this year, .686 for his career.
I deem that weird.
I'd say the #'s in both first cases suffer from a little ole' smallsamplesizeenza...but interesting that the career #'s are similar, lending credence to Madman SKO's notion that ole' Progressive Joe may in fact be a little stuck in this otherwise "old-school" idea of handedness-based matchups.
Well that and Mike Baxter is Mike Baxter, and Denorfia, last year's injury plagued issues aside, is at least a major league player. I don't really see the point in pinch hitting Mike Baxter for any non pitcher on the roster except maybe David Ross. I get that Joe has a weak bench. I wouldn't blame him at all if Coghlan and Denorfia had both made outs and failed to tie the game. I don't get inserting your weak bench into the game when there was no reason to.
If Baxter's on the team, he should hit in that situation. It's not like he took down Soler or Bryant or even Castro. It's not that hard to understand. McAllister was throwing pills last night. I don't think it's that big of a deal especially in the 8th inning in an AL park where it matters little if you lighten your bench for extra innings. He could have not hit Baxter and Denorfia could have made an out and a bunch of people would ask why they didn't hit Baxter. It's just a thing Maddon did that didn't work. It's not worth criticizing. It's not even eyebrow raising. It's almost like it never even happened.
This is bullshit. There's not one person in the world who would have asked why Joe Maddon didn't use Mike Baxter in a game. I refuse to believe these people exist. Accept a little criticism of an otherwise likeable manager and move on, but don't just insult the human race by acting like there are people out there clamoring for Mike Baxter to ever hit ever.
Joe Maddon doesn't exist? Now this IS getting weird and I'm going to stop.
He exists and he did a weird, anti-logic, anti-stats thing last night and some people tried to criticize him for it (while still acknowledging his strengths as a manager anyway)and others are trying to stop those people because I guess they see Mike Baxter as the Matthew Dellavedova of baseball and thus have a soft spot for him or something.
Shit's getting real...
Also, I know Joe Maddon does weird shit, but weird for the sake of weird is stupid. When he put a slumping Soler in the leadoff spot so he'd see more pitches and put more of an emphasis on getting on base rather than hacking away and trying to drive in runners, that was weird but it had logic behind it that I supported. When he pulls Wada before Wada can even get in trouble even though that violates conventional wisdom, great.
Weird that's not really weird so much as it is unconventional is what we're after. Francona using his closer in the top of the 5th coming back from a rain delay would be considered "weird" by many but the logic behind it was sound and it arguably won them the ballgame. Using a player that every bit of data says is worse than the guy he's replacing to pinch hit is not "lol ol' Weird Joe" it's just dumb.
I agree with every word SKO says and I support frequent, if redundant, discussion on Desipio and even I'm kind of tired right now.
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 11:24:07 AM
I agree with every word SKO says and I support frequent, if redundant, discussion on Desipio and even I'm kind of tired right now.
I slept for like 2 hours last night and I have fuckall to do at work and I am typing a lot to keep myself awake and engaged so my boss doesn't find me sleeping at my desk. Bear with me fellas. Mike Baxter sucks.
Quote from: R-V on June 19, 2015, 10:46:55 AM
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:31:31 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:20:37 AM
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 10:11:41 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Yeah well if he's this bad all year they won't carry him again. There's no way. I'm not even that pessimistic.
How much worse can he really get? We all know he's not going to get better. The catcher aging curve is brutal and at 38, he's basically already off the curve. If they still think he's worth rostering when he has a .552 OPS, they'll probably be happy to carry him if he has a .452 OPS too.
His salary would be too high to justify for a bullpen catcher but, in a pinch, if something were to, say, happen to RV's neighbor...
It would be my first kill and I might go to jail, but if it would get SKO to stop talking about Davis Ross I think it would be worth it.
I will raise money to bail you out
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: R-V on June 19, 2015, 10:46:55 AM
Quote from: PANK! on June 19, 2015, 10:31:31 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:20:37 AM
Quote from: Slaky on June 19, 2015, 10:11:41 AM
Quote from: Eli on June 19, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
The biggest thing that bugs me about Ross is the two-year contract. If there's "no room" for Schwarber this year because they have Ross and Montero, that'll also apply next year.
Yeah well if he's this bad all year they won't carry him again. There's no way. I'm not even that pessimistic.
How much worse can he really get? We all know he's not going to get better. The catcher aging curve is brutal and at 38, he's basically already off the curve. If they still think he's worth rostering when he has a .552 OPS, they'll probably be happy to carry him if he has a .452 OPS too.
His salary would be too high to justify for a bullpen catcher but, in a pinch, if something were to, say, happen to RV's neighbor...
It would be my first kill and I might go to jail, but if it would get SKO to stop talking about Davis Ross I think it would be worth it.
I will raise money to bail you out
Ross has his kids in his Twitter avatar and they just look like a loving family of white people. I'd feel bad if we killed him. I'll give RV good money to wreck his knees real good, tho. I'm a humanitarian like that.
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 25, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
I know, what're they thinking? Replace a guy who's never gotten a hit with someone
who might drive in a run? Who needs those when you're down 4-love?
Quote from: PANK! on June 25, 2015, 02:50:42 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 25, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
I know, what're they thinking? Replace a guy who's never gotten a hit with someone who might drive in a run? Who needs those when you're down 4-love?
Well and god forbid Joe go to the pen since Lester was pitching so well and you need Edwin Jackson to save up all of his bullets for the Cardinals.
Also love the suggestion that Castro, having arrived mid-game from the birth of his child, should have gone into a game where they trail by 4 runs on Jonathan Herrera is playing 3B. PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS, JOE.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 25, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
I'd rather they save Lester's arm than Edwin's in a lost-cause game.
And who the fuck is Coughlin?
Quote from: Eli on June 25, 2015, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 25, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
I'd rather they save Lester's arm than Edwin's in a lost-cause game.
4-0 in the 4th is a lost cause game?
Quote from: Slaky on June 26, 2015, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: Eli on June 25, 2015, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 25, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
I'd rather they save Lester's arm than Edwin's in a lost-cause game.
4-0 in the 4th is a lost cause game?
With that lineup? Yes.
Quote from: Slaky on June 26, 2015, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: Eli on June 25, 2015, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 25, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
I'd rather they save Lester's arm than Edwin's in a lost-cause game.
4-0 in the 4th is a lost cause game?
Their win expectancy was 10.2% at that point, so basically.
Quote from: Eli on June 26, 2015, 12:28:08 PM
Quote from: Slaky on June 26, 2015, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: Eli on June 25, 2015, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 25, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
I'd rather they save Lester's arm than Edwin's in a lost-cause game.
4-0 in the 4th is a lost cause game?
Their win expectancy was 10.2% at that point, so basically.
Never tell me the odds.
Quote from: CT III on June 26, 2015, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: Eli on June 26, 2015, 12:28:08 PM
Quote from: Slaky on June 26, 2015, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: Eli on June 25, 2015, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 25, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Does everyone on the team have the flu?
Coughlin to 2nd instead of playing Castro?
Pulling Lester after 4 for a PH with 1st and 2nd and 2 outs?
Why burn the pen before a big series in StL? This makes no sense to me.
I'd rather they save Lester's arm than Edwin's in a lost-cause game.
4-0 in the 4th is a lost cause game?
Their win expectancy was 10.2% at that point, so basically.
Never tell me the odds.
No doubt. That's some serious bullshit toleration there. Michael Jordan used to spot his opponents just so many points so he could overcome odds like that. Told Scottie to fake a migrane, Rodman to kick photographer whatever it took.
What in the wide world of shit is this shit?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI6mhjrUAAAIoze.jpg)
Quote from: Eli on July 02, 2015, 09:50:26 AM
What in the wide world of shit is this shit?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI6mhjrUAAAIoze.jpg)
Holy cunting Christ.
I get that Bryant has scuffled a bit and the grind of a full season is a lot for a rookie and everyone needs a day off. On the other hand Bryant homered off DeGrom the last time he saw him, this offense is beyond dreadful right now, they just had an off day on Monday and the All Star Break is barely a week away. Just...seems an odd day to sit him.
Quote from: Eli on July 02, 2015, 09:50:26 AM
What in the wide world of shit is this shit?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI6mhjrUAAAIoze.jpg)
Instead of drinking orange juice for breakfast, it seems ole' Joe instead had a big ole' glass of Orange Sunshine.
Quote from: SKO on July 02, 2015, 10:56:28 AM
I get that Bryant has scuffled a bit and the grind of a full season is a lot for a rookie and everyone needs a day off. On the other hand Bryant homered off DeGrom the last time he saw him, this offense is beyond dreadful right now, they just had an off day on Monday and the All Star Break is barely a week away. Just...seems an odd day to sit him.
Don't you know? He's hungover....
Also, he has the Day-Blindness
Quote from: Yeti on July 02, 2015, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 02, 2015, 10:56:28 AM
I get that Bryant has scuffled a bit and the grind of a full season is a lot for a rookie and everyone needs a day off. On the other hand Bryant homered off DeGrom the last time he saw him, this offense is beyond dreadful right now, they just had an off day on Monday and the All Star Break is barely a week away. Just...seems an odd day to sit him.
Don't you know? He's hungover....
goddamnit chuck
Getaway day game after a night game preceding a day game on Fourth of July Weekend, with a doubleheader against the ISIS Confederates Tuesday.
Bryant will pinch hit for Herrera or Arrieta in the 8th and hit a 3-run triple to put the Cubs up 6-0. All will be well.
Fuck you goddamn gutless fucking assholes.
Maddstink is wonderful.
Joe Maddon: Players want to play for him, lesser managers want to be him. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13186480/who-mlb-best-manager-survey-says)
If someone told me in March that at the All-Star Break...
...that Dexter Fowler would be having his worst offensive season, with an OBP barely hovering above .300...
...that Starlin Castro would be having an entirely abysmal offensive season with an OPS barely above .600...
...that Jon Lester would be 4-8...
...that Jorge Soler would have 4 HR and 20 RBI...
...that Javier Baez would not have played a single inning for the team...
...that Arismendy Alcantara would spend almost the whole first half in Iowa...
...that Tommy La Stella would've ducked into the Witness Protection Program...
...that Addison Russell would get called up but go .229/.299/.358 in 70 games...
...and that Jason Motte would be the Cubs' closer...
...and yet the Cubs would arrive at said All-Star Break 7 games over .500, with the 9th best record in baseball and sitting a game up in the second Wild Card position in the National League, I'd have told said someone to get fucked, there's no way that could be the case.
And yet here we are. Maddon does some unusual, sometimes counter-intuitive things but the fact they're where they're at in spite of the all of things I mentioned above speaks pretty well to the man behind the glasses.
Strap yourselves in, fellas, this second-half promises to be something special.
Quote from: PANK! on July 12, 2015, 09:42:45 PM
If someone told me in March that at the All-Star Break...
...that Dexter Fowler would be having his worst offensive season, with an OBP barely hovering above .300...
...that Starlin Castro would be having an entirely abysmal offensive season with an OPS barely above .600...
...that Jon Lester would be 4-8...
...that Jorge Soler would have 4 HR and 20 RBI...
...that Javier Baez would not have played a single inning for the team...
...that Arismendy Alcantara would spend almost the whole first half in Iowa...
...that Tommy La Stella would've ducked into the Witness Protection Program...
...that Addison Russell would get called up but go .229/.299/.358 in 70 games...
...and that Jason Motte would be the Cubs' closer...
...and yet the Cubs would arrive at said All-Star Break 7 games over .500, with the 9th best record in baseball and sitting a game up in the second Wild Card position in the National League, I'd have told said someone to get fucked, there's no way that could be the case.
And yet here we are. Maddon does some unusual, sometimes counter-intuitive things but the fact they're where they're at in spite of the all of things I mentioned above speaks pretty well to the man behind the glasses.
Strap yourselves in, fellas, this second-half promises to be something special.
I'd add in there the fact that starting pitching has been one of the Cubs' strengths.
Tonight's line-up, except for #24, is quite acceptable.
CF Fowler (no) (CF Gomez oh please God please)
C Schwarber
3B Bryant
1B Rizzo
RF Soler
LF Coghlan
SS Castro
P Hendricks
2B Russell
Castro's been dropped down. Schwarber, Bryant, Rizzo, and Soler are forming a future murderer's row in the middle. If only Fowler hadn't forgotten how to get on base, it'd be perfect.
I don't get why Joe seems to trust Travis Wood in any situation and doesn't appear to ever want to use James Russell unless he's forced. Maybe neither of those guys should be in a high leverage situation, but given my pick of the two I'll take the guy who has proven himself a quality major league reliever.
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 07:49:55 AM
I don't get why Joe seems to trust Travis Wood in any situation and doesn't appear to ever want to use James Russell unless he's forced. Maybe neither of those guys should be in a high leverage situation, but given my pick of the two I'll take the guy who has proven himself a quality major league reliever.
Last night it was obvious he wanted to stretch Wood out and not get deep into the pen with a doubleheader today. Oh, well.
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:04:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 07:49:55 AM
I don't get why Joe seems to trust Travis Wood in any situation and doesn't appear to ever want to use James Russell unless he's forced. Maybe neither of those guys should be in a high leverage situation, but given my pick of the two I'll take the guy who has proven himself a quality major league reliever.
Last night it was obvious he wanted to stretch Wood out and not get deep into the pen with a doubleheader today. Oh, well.
I have precious little negative to say about how Joe's handled the pen. He clearly got his way by trotting out Phil Coke every single day earlier in the season because it worked. Coke was shitcanned into oblivion and now your fifth best reliever is Neal Ramirez.
He's also, seemingly, using Strop and Rondon - the guys with the nastiest stuff - in the highest leverage situations instead of just using them in the 9th.
Joe's a smart man. I love him long time.
Quote from: Slaky on July 22, 2015, 09:06:21 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:04:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 07:49:55 AM
I don't get why Joe seems to trust Travis Wood in any situation and doesn't appear to ever want to use James Russell unless he's forced. Maybe neither of those guys should be in a high leverage situation, but given my pick of the two I'll take the guy who has proven himself a quality major league reliever.
Last night it was obvious he wanted to stretch Wood out and not get deep into the pen with a doubleheader today. Oh, well.
I have precious little negative to say about how Joe's handled the pen. He clearly got his way by trotting out Phil Coke every single day earlier in the season because it worked. Coke was shitcanned into oblivion and now your fifth best reliever is Neal Ramirez.
He's also, seemingly, using Strop and Rondon - the guys with the nastiest stuff - in the highest leverage situations instead of just using them in the 9th.
Joe's a smart man. I love him long time.
I have precious little negative to say about Joe in general. He's great. This is a minor nit. I'm not going to die on the hill for James Russell, and last night I get trying to squeeze more out of Wood (although the inverse is true...he'd also seem like a guy you'd want to save for today to go 3 or 4 if Dallas Beeler shits himself), just an observation that Wood seems to get more opportunities than his performance would merit and Russell gets less.
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 22, 2015, 09:06:21 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:04:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 07:49:55 AM
I don't get why Joe seems to trust Travis Wood in any situation and doesn't appear to ever want to use James Russell unless he's forced. Maybe neither of those guys should be in a high leverage situation, but given my pick of the two I'll take the guy who has proven himself a quality major league reliever.
Last night it was obvious he wanted to stretch Wood out and not get deep into the pen with a doubleheader today. Oh, well.
I have precious little negative to say about how Joe's handled the pen. He clearly got his way by trotting out Phil Coke every single day earlier in the season because it worked. Coke was shitcanned into oblivion and now your fifth best reliever is Neal Ramirez.
He's also, seemingly, using Strop and Rondon - the guys with the nastiest stuff - in the highest leverage situations instead of just using them in the 9th.
Joe's a smart man. I love him long time.
I have precious little negative to say about Joe in general. He's great. This is a minor nit. I'm not going to die on the hill for James Russell, and last night I get trying to squeeze more out of Wood (although the inverse is true...he'd also seem like a guy you'd want to save for today to go 3 or 4 if Dallas Beeler shits himself), just an observation that Wood seems to get more opportunities than his performance would merit and Russell gets less.
That's indeed a small nit to pick. I don't think it's cost them much of anything. He does seem to love him some Travis Wood though, I'll grant you.
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 22, 2015, 09:06:21 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:04:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 07:49:55 AM
I don't get why Joe seems to trust Travis Wood in any situation and doesn't appear to ever want to use James Russell unless he's forced. Maybe neither of those guys should be in a high leverage situation, but given my pick of the two I'll take the guy who has proven himself a quality major league reliever.
Last night it was obvious he wanted to stretch Wood out and not get deep into the pen with a doubleheader today. Oh, well.
I have precious little negative to say about how Joe's handled the pen. He clearly got his way by trotting out Phil Coke every single day earlier in the season because it worked. Coke was shitcanned into oblivion and now your fifth best reliever is Neal Ramirez.
He's also, seemingly, using Strop and Rondon - the guys with the nastiest stuff - in the highest leverage situations instead of just using them in the 9th.
Joe's a smart man. I love him long time.
I have precious little negative to say about Joe in general. He's great. This is a minor nit. I'm not going to die on the hill for James Russell, and last night I get trying to squeeze more out of Wood (although the inverse is true...he'd also seem like a guy you'd want to save for today to go 3 or 4 if Dallas Beeler shits himself), just an observation that Wood seems to get more opportunities than his performance would merit and Russell gets less.
That's indeed a small nit to pick. I don't think it's cost them much of anything. He does seem to love him some Travis Wood though, I'll grant you.
Maybe my eyes have been deceiving me, but I think Wood has largely been effective ever since he shit the tub in St. Louis in May before getting relegated to the pen (last night notwithstanding). I'm too lazy to look into my Big Book of Statfaggotry to back this up so I'll just leave my unsubstantiated observation right here and wait for SKO to refute me in no fewer then 11,000 words.
Quote from: PANK! on July 22, 2015, 10:24:49 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 22, 2015, 09:06:21 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:04:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 07:49:55 AM
I don't get why Joe seems to trust Travis Wood in any situation and doesn't appear to ever want to use James Russell unless he's forced. Maybe neither of those guys should be in a high leverage situation, but given my pick of the two I'll take the guy who has proven himself a quality major league reliever.
Last night it was obvious he wanted to stretch Wood out and not get deep into the pen with a doubleheader today. Oh, well.
I have precious little negative to say about how Joe's handled the pen. He clearly got his way by trotting out Phil Coke every single day earlier in the season because it worked. Coke was shitcanned into oblivion and now your fifth best reliever is Neal Ramirez.
He's also, seemingly, using Strop and Rondon - the guys with the nastiest stuff - in the highest leverage situations instead of just using them in the 9th.
Joe's a smart man. I love him long time.
I have precious little negative to say about Joe in general. He's great. This is a minor nit. I'm not going to die on the hill for James Russell, and last night I get trying to squeeze more out of Wood (although the inverse is true...he'd also seem like a guy you'd want to save for today to go 3 or 4 if Dallas Beeler shits himself), just an observation that Wood seems to get more opportunities than his performance would merit and Russell gets less.
That's indeed a small nit to pick. I don't think it's cost them much of anything. He does seem to love him some Travis Wood though, I'll grant you.
Maybe my eyes have been deceiving me, but I think Wood has largely been effective ever since he shit the tub in St. Louis in May before getting relegated to the pen (last night notwithstanding). I'm too lazy to look into my Big Book of Statfaggotry to back this up so I'll just leave my unsubstantiated observation right here and wait for SKO to refute me in no fewer then 11,000 words.
He has been decent in the pen, certainly, but Russell's numbers are still better than Reliever-Only Wood. It just seems odd that Wood is ahead in the pecking order, is all, but oh well.
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: PANK! on July 22, 2015, 10:24:49 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 22, 2015, 09:06:21 AM
Quote from: InternetApex on July 22, 2015, 09:04:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 07:49:55 AM
I don't get why Joe seems to trust Travis Wood in any situation and doesn't appear to ever want to use James Russell unless he's forced. Maybe neither of those guys should be in a high leverage situation, but given my pick of the two I'll take the guy who has proven himself a quality major league reliever.
Last night it was obvious he wanted to stretch Wood out and not get deep into the pen with a doubleheader today. Oh, well.
I have precious little negative to say about how Joe's handled the pen. He clearly got his way by trotting out Phil Coke every single day earlier in the season because it worked. Coke was shitcanned into oblivion and now your fifth best reliever is Neal Ramirez.
He's also, seemingly, using Strop and Rondon - the guys with the nastiest stuff - in the highest leverage situations instead of just using them in the 9th.
Joe's a smart man. I love him long time.
I have precious little negative to say about Joe in general. He's great. This is a minor nit. I'm not going to die on the hill for James Russell, and last night I get trying to squeeze more out of Wood (although the inverse is true...he'd also seem like a guy you'd want to save for today to go 3 or 4 if Dallas Beeler shits himself), just an observation that Wood seems to get more opportunities than his performance would merit and Russell gets less.
That's indeed a small nit to pick. I don't think it's cost them much of anything. He does seem to love him some Travis Wood though, I'll grant you.
Maybe my eyes have been deceiving me, but I think Wood has largely been effective ever since he shit the tub in St. Louis in May before getting relegated to the pen (last night notwithstanding). I'm too lazy to look into my Big Book of Statfaggotry to back this up so I'll just leave my unsubstantiated observation right here and wait for SKO to refute me in no fewer then 11,000 words.
He has been decent in the pen, certainly, but Russell's numbers are still better than Reliever-Only Wood. It just seems odd that Wood is ahead in the pecking order, is all, but oh well.
It could be that despite the current samples, they think Travis Wood is a better pitcher than James Russell, and therefor, trusted to deliver outs in key situations whereas Russell is relegated to LOOGY status and low leverage. Just a thought.
I love this crazy bastard
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 09:01:44 PM
I love this crazy bastard
He made Bryan Price his bitch tonight.
Quote from: Slaky on July 22, 2015, 09:50:50 PM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 09:01:44 PM
I love this crazy bastard
He made Bryan Price his bitch tonight.
He also made Brenneman lose his shit during the force out at 2nd non-challenge.
I didn't watch Game 2, what happened that made Bryan Price Joe's bitch?
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 22, 2015, 10:49:42 PM
I didn't watch Game 2, what happened that made Bryan Price Joe's bitch?
In the third inning, Price intentionally walked David Ross to load the bases for Dallas Beeler. Joe promptly pinch hit Bryant, who delivered a game tying two run single. So he intentionally walked David Ross, which one should never do anyway, to get to Kris Bryant.
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 11:00:35 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 22, 2015, 10:49:42 PM
I didn't watch Game 2, what happened that made Bryan Price Joe's bitch?
In the third inning, Price intentionally walked David Ross to load the bases for Dallas Beeler. Joe promptly pinch hit Bryant, who delivered a game tying two run single. So he intentionally walked David Ross, which one should never do anyway, to get to Kris Bryant.
Bryan Price = genius
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 23, 2015, 12:04:11 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 11:00:35 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 22, 2015, 10:49:42 PM
I didn't watch Game 2, what happened that made Bryan Price Joe's bitch?
In the third inning, Price intentionally walked David Ross to load the bases for Dallas Beeler. Joe promptly pinch hit Bryant, who delivered a game tying two run single. So he intentionally walked David Ross, which one should never do anyway, to get to Kris Bryant.
Bryan Price = genius
He had Travis Wood warming up in the pen at the time too, so it wasn't like it was an odd move. Even if Price thought Wood had been ridden hard the night before, wouldn't you still rather keep feasting on Beeler? Wood's probably coming in at some point anyway. It was puzzling.
Nice to see Bryant get a groundball with eyes there, but man, he's a tough watch right now.
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 11:00:35 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 22, 2015, 10:49:42 PM
I didn't watch Game 2, what happened that made Bryan Price Joe's bitch?
In the third inning, Price intentionally walked David Ross to load the bases for Dallas Beeler. Joe promptly pinch hit Bryant, who delivered a game tying two run single. So he intentionally walked David Ross, which one should never do anyway, to get to Kris Bryant.
That would never happen if Matt Carpenter had been available.
Quote from: InternetApex on July 23, 2015, 08:50:22 AM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 23, 2015, 12:04:11 AM
Quote from: SKO on July 22, 2015, 11:00:35 PM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on July 22, 2015, 10:49:42 PM
I didn't watch Game 2, what happened that made Bryan Price Joe's bitch?
In the third inning, Price intentionally walked David Ross to load the bases for Dallas Beeler. Joe promptly pinch hit Bryant, who delivered a game tying two run single. So he intentionally walked David Ross, which one should never do anyway, to get to Kris Bryant.
Bryan Price = genius
He had Travis Wood warming up in the pen at the time too, so it wasn't like it was an odd move. Even if Price thought Wood had been ridden hard the night before, wouldn't you still rather keep feasting on Beeler? Wood's probably coming in at some point anyway. It was puzzling.
Nice to see Bryant get a groundball with eyes there, but man, he's a tough watch right now.
My thought is this: if you have David Ross at the plate, you pitch to him. It's David Ross. Never walk a guy who makes an out 9 out of 10 times or whatever.
Price also got owned in the 9th when he walked Soler to get to another Cubs backup catcher. Which was probably the right move. And then, naturally, Teagarden roped the game winning hit off Old Piss Chapman.
Price has that right combo of unlucky and stupid that fans dream about.
Quote from: Slaky on July 23, 2015, 08:58:40 AM
My thought is this: if you have David Ross at the plate, you pitch to him. It's David Ross. Never walk a guy who
makes an out 9 out of 10 times is only 10% of the way to first baseor whatever.
[/quote]
Gil'ed.
QuoteQuote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on July 23, 2015, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 23, 2015, 08:58:40 AM
My thought is this: if you have David Ross at the plate, you pitch to him. It's David Ross. Never walk a guy who makes an out 9 out of 10 times is only 10% of the way to first baseor whatever.
Gil'ed.
This is an amazing quote fail. I'm not even sure how you pulled it off
Quote from: SKO on July 23, 2015, 10:05:38 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on July 23, 2015, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 23, 2015, 08:58:40 AM
My thought is this: if you have David Ross at the plate, you pitch to him. It's David Ross. Never walk a guy who makes an out 9 out of 10 times is only 10% of the way to first baseor whatever.
Gil'ed.
This is an amazing quote fail. I'm not even sure how you pulled it off
He put a quote around Slak's already quoted post or something... Irregardless, fixed
Quote from: Yeti on July 23, 2015, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: SKO on July 23, 2015, 10:05:38 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on July 23, 2015, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 23, 2015, 08:58:40 AM
My thought is this: if you have David Ross at the plate, you pitch to him. It's David Ross. Never walk a guy who makes an out 9 out of 10 times is only 10% of the way to first baseor whatever.
Gil'ed.
This is an amazing quote fail. I'm not even sure how you pulled it off
He put a quote around Slak's already quoted post or something... Irregardless, fixed
Should of left it in all its PANKish glory.
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on July 23, 2015, 01:12:19 PM
Quote from: Yeti on July 23, 2015, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: SKO on July 23, 2015, 10:05:38 AM
Quote from: Median Desipio Chucklehead on July 23, 2015, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Slaky on July 23, 2015, 08:58:40 AM
My thought is this: if you have David Ross at the plate, you pitch to him. It's David Ross. Never walk a guy who makes an out 9 out of 10 times is only 10% of the way to first baseor whatever.
Gil'ed.
This is an amazing quote fail. I'm not even sure how you pulled it off
He put a quote around Slak's already quoted post or something... Irregardless, fixed
Should of left it in all its PANKish glory.
Should of
So, Madson came out with that mask to play off that whole media kerfuffle.... so, anyone figure out the deets
I know this is putting too fine a point on this weekend's steamer, but yesterday in the 3rd when the game was still close and Nola was scuffling (having just given up a HR and a walk) and you've got one All-Star at the plate and one on deck, might not be the best time to send your catcher down to steal a base, even if he damn near pulled it off.
Quote from: Yeti on July 24, 2015, 07:15:45 PM
So, Madson came out with that mask to play off that whole media kerfuffle.... so, anyone figure out the deets
George Offman and Bruce Levine started yelling at each other.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on July 27, 2015, 08:23:46 AM
Quote from: Yeti on July 24, 2015, 07:15:45 PM
So, Madson came out with that mask to play off that whole media kerfuffle.... so, anyone figure out the deets
George Offman and Bruce Levine started yelling at each other.
Did Bruce put an extra pause before each exclamation?
If Coghlan doesn't get pulled for defensive replacement Herrera after 5 innings and a five run lead, no way do the Cubs turn the double play on Pagan in the 6th inning. Subtle, yet effective.
Quote from: PANK! on August 07, 2015, 10:58:55 PM
If Coghlan doesn't get pulled for defensive replacement Herrera after 5 innings and a five run lead, no way do the Cubs turn the double play on Pagan in the 6th inning. Subtle, yet effective.
Since my team dared to play a team from my home market the game was blacked out here so I listened to Giants radio just for something different. They must have said something about Joe Maddon "managing like its October" once per inning, and it sounded like they weren't happy about it, like the only reason they would be losing is because the other guy is taking it too far — Pete Rose at the All-Star Game. They were looking for silver linings in EVERYthing — "Well, you know, Schwarber hit that hard, but the Giants second baseman is a rookie there so you gotta think 9 times out of 10 they don't even score" — kind of like how we do when the Cardinals are getting every single break. They kept talking about how hot the Cubs are and they talked about "the scary lineup" and "multiple aces in Lester and Arrieta" like they're genuinely afraid of this team. Once it went to 7 runs they were talking like the game was over. It was weird to listen to.
Quote from: Sterling Archer on August 07, 2015, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: PANK! on August 07, 2015, 10:58:55 PM
If Coghlan doesn't get pulled for defensive replacement Herrera after 5 innings and a five run lead, no way do the Cubs turn the double play on Pagan in the 6th inning. Subtle, yet effective.
Since my team dared to play a team from my home market the game was blacked out here so I listened to Giants radio just for something different. They must have said something about Joe Maddon "managing like its October" once per inning, and it sounded like they weren't happy about it, like the only reason they would be losing is because the other guy is taking it too far — Pete Rose at the All-Star Game. They were looking for silver linings in EVERYthing — "Well, you know, Schwarber hit that hard, but the Giants second baseman is a rookie there so you gotta think 9 times out of 10 they don't even score" — kind of like how we do when the Cardinals are getting every single break. They kept talking about how hot the Cubs are and they talked about "the scary lineup" and "multiple aces in Lester and Arrieta" like they're genuinely afraid of this team. Once it went to 7 runs they were talking like the game was over. It was weird to listen to.
Krukow?
Brian Kenny, subbing for Yellin' Russo, on High Heat couldn't praise Maddon enough for the move to take out Hammel in 5th inning a couple days ago. He had a point. Hammel had just walked two guys and he was about to begin going through the order for the third time. Maddon knew the numbers and yanked him. Hammel was pissed but so what? It's weird that something that should be so normal in baseball is looked at as that visionary. Now that Maddon is on our side, I hope it takes a while for the rest of the sport to catch up.
(http://giant.gfycat.com/FakeAmusingAfricanmolesnake.gif)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Literally made me Muttleylol in my office just now.
Looked at it a second time, and now I can't stop laughing, jesus help me.
I just realized I am probably going to look disturbingly like Maddon in that gif in less than a decade at this rate.
I think Joe might be a Desipio fan.
Quote"The consistent, hard contact was really nice to see," Maddon said of Castro's approach in Tuesday's 8-5 win. "The fact that he's taken so readily and easily to second base -- just the way he's handled this professionally speaks loudly to me and the whole group. This guy is an All-Star-caliber player. He just had a hard time this year and it happens, it happens to all of us. I think he's done everything properly. We'll see how it all plays out."
"We'll see how it all plays out." -- Joe Maddon, Desipio.com
Quote from: Bort on August 10, 2015, 01:35:48 PM
I just realized I am probably going to look disturbingly like Maddon in that gif in less than a decade at this rate.
Dude, you already have less hair than Joe.
Quote from: Tonker on August 28, 2015, 01:44:20 AM
Quote from: Bort on August 10, 2015, 01:35:48 PM
I just realized I am probably going to look disturbingly like Maddon in that gif in less than a decade at this rate.
Dude, you already have less hair than Joe.
EVERY PICTURE TAKEN OF ME IN THE LAST YEAR IS HORRIBLY MISLEADING. HONEST!
Gotta love Joe sending Strop out with a 5-run lead to see if his Cardinals jitters go away.
Raise a shot and a beer to this guy, who was talking about making the playoffs this season from the second he took the job.
A team that barely bunted all year has now become the first team in the history of baseball to squeeze bunt twice in a postseason game. Not just two in a row, but to do it twice in the same game at all. Joe is one crazy mofo. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/page/playoffs15_cubssqueezeNLDSGame2/joe-maddon-chicago-cubs-put-squeeze-october)
Quote from: Sterling Archer on October 11, 2015, 12:52:33 AM
A team that barely bunted all year has now become the first team in the history of baseball to squeeze bunt twice in a postseason game. Not just two in a row, but to do it twice in the same game at all. Joe is one crazy mofo. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/page/playoffs15_cubssqueezeNLDSGame2/joe-maddon-chicago-cubs-put-squeeze-october)
Joe is taking great pleasure in turning Metheny's brain from tapioca to burnt tapioca.
Manager of the Damn Year. I assume all these awards can be traded in for the World Series next year, yes?
Quote from: Sterling Archer on November 17, 2015, 07:23:44 PM
Manager of the Damn Year. I assume all these awards can be traded in for the World Series next year, yes?
I think that for Reasonable Trade Value Discussion purposes, MOY+ROY+Cy=World Series. Don't let us down Jake.
Quote from: thehawk on November 18, 2015, 10:52:36 AM
Quote from: Sterling Archer on November 17, 2015, 07:23:44 PM
Manager of the Damn Year. I assume all these awards can be traded in for the World Series next year, yes?
I think that for Reasonable Trade Value Discussion purposes, MOY+ROY+Cy=World Series. Don't let us down Jake.
The 1984 team had MOY+Cy+MVP and they didn't trade them for squat. Greenstink was terrible.
Pulling Hendricks despite a masterful five innings (knowing the third time through the order was coming up anyway) and pinch hitting his best contact hitter on the bench in La Stella with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd in the 5th was some good, proactive managin'
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
Pulling Hendricks despite a masterful five innings (knowing the third time through the order was coming up anyway) and pinch hitting his best contact hitter on the bench in La Stella with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd in the 5th was some good, proactive managin'
Yes. Nice to get a real true taste of Adam Warren's value as well. I mean, I know he's been solid all year, but yesterday was the outing I envisioned when we got him--at least until Hammel begins to shit the tub when the calendar hits July.
Quote from: PANK! on April 27, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
Pulling Hendricks despite a masterful five innings (knowing the third time through the order was coming up anyway) and pinch hitting his best contact hitter on the bench in La Stella with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd in the 5th was some good, proactive managin'
Yes. Nice to get a real true taste of Adam Warren's value as well. I mean, I know he's been solid all year, but yesterday was the outing I envisioned when we got him--at least until Hammel begins to shit the tub when the calendar hits July.
I wondered why we didn't see him until the 5th game of the year. Then I either read some speculation, or heard JD talk about it, but the thought was that Maddon would basically set up Warren's usage around Hendricks starts. In other words, you know you always want Warren available for 2 innings for a Hendricks start, and you work backwards from there. If that is indeed what they're doing, I think it's a pretty damn clever way to maximize the value you get out of both Warren and Hendricks.
Quote from: R-V on April 27, 2016, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: PANK! on April 27, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
Pulling Hendricks despite a masterful five innings (knowing the third time through the order was coming up anyway) and pinch hitting his best contact hitter on the bench in La Stella with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd in the 5th was some good, proactive managin'
Yes. Nice to get a real true taste of Adam Warren's value as well. I mean, I know he's been solid all year, but yesterday was the outing I envisioned when we got him--at least until Hammel begins to shit the tub when the calendar hits July.
I wondered why we didn't see him until the 5th game of the year. Then I either read some speculation, or heard JD talk about it, but the thought was that Maddon would basically set up Warren's usage around Hendricks starts. In other words, you know you always want Warren available for 2 innings for a Hendricks start, and you work backwards from there. If that is indeed what they're doing, I think it's a pretty damn clever way to maximize the value you get out of both Warren and Hendricks.
I suggested this strategy for the artist formerly known as CJ Edwards last year as a caddy for Wada or Hendricks, since Edwards was mostly being used for multi-inning relief outings in the minors. Pen melted down and said something about how CJ should basically be the closer for all eternity cuz he's super good and not a guy rotting in Iowa due to a continued inability to throw strikes.
This is only tangentially related to the Warren/Hendricks handcuff, but I wanted to point out that Penis wrong again.
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 27, 2016, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: PANK! on April 27, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
Pulling Hendricks despite a masterful five innings (knowing the third time through the order was coming up anyway) and pinch hitting his best contact hitter on the bench in La Stella with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd in the 5th was some good, proactive managin'
Yes. Nice to get a real true taste of Adam Warren's value as well. I mean, I know he's been solid all year, but yesterday was the outing I envisioned when we got him--at least until Hammel begins to shit the tub when the calendar hits July.
I wondered why we didn't see him until the 5th game of the year. Then I either read some speculation, or heard JD talk about it, but the thought was that Maddon would basically set up Warren's usage around Hendricks starts. In other words, you know you always want Warren available for 2 innings for a Hendricks start, and you work backwards from there. If that is indeed what they're doing, I think it's a pretty damn clever way to maximize the value you get out of both Warren and Hendricks.
I suggested this strategy for the artist formerly known as CJ Edwards last year as a caddy for Wada or Hendricks, since Edwards was mostly being used for multi-inning relief outings in the minors. Pen melted down and said something about how CJ should basically be the closer for all eternity cuz he's super good and not a guy rotting in Iowa due to a continued inability to throw strikes.
This is only tangentially related to the Warren/Hendricks handcuff, but I wanted to point out that Penis wrong again.
I just want to see lots of CJ Edwards. But not now, this bullpen is tits and they shouldn't do anything to change it.
But someday, it's gonna be a whole lotta CJ.
Quote from: PenFoe on April 27, 2016, 10:39:08 AM
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 27, 2016, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: PANK! on April 27, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
Pulling Hendricks despite a masterful five innings (knowing the third time through the order was coming up anyway) and pinch hitting his best contact hitter on the bench in La Stella with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd in the 5th was some good, proactive managin'
Yes. Nice to get a real true taste of Adam Warren's value as well. I mean, I know he's been solid all year, but yesterday was the outing I envisioned when we got him--at least until Hammel begins to shit the tub when the calendar hits July.
I wondered why we didn't see him until the 5th game of the year. Then I either read some speculation, or heard JD talk about it, but the thought was that Maddon would basically set up Warren's usage around Hendricks starts. In other words, you know you always want Warren available for 2 innings for a Hendricks start, and you work backwards from there. If that is indeed what they're doing, I think it's a pretty damn clever way to maximize the value you get out of both Warren and Hendricks.
I suggested this strategy for the artist formerly known as CJ Edwards last year as a caddy for Wada or Hendricks, since Edwards was mostly being used for multi-inning relief outings in the minors. Pen melted down and said something about how CJ should basically be the closer for all eternity cuz he's super good and not a guy rotting in Iowa due to a continued inability to throw strikes.
This is only tangentially related to the Warren/Hendricks handcuff, but I wanted to point out that Penis wrong again.
I just want to see lots of CJ Edwards. But not now, this bullpen is tits and they shouldn't do anything to change it.
But someday, it's gonna be a whole lotta CJ.
Not if he keeps walking one guy every inning he pitches.
Quote from: R-V on April 27, 2016, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: PANK! on April 27, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
Pulling Hendricks despite a masterful five innings (knowing the third time through the order was coming up anyway) and pinch hitting his best contact hitter on the bench in La Stella with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd in the 5th was some good, proactive managin'
Yes. Nice to get a real true taste of Adam Warren's value as well. I mean, I know he's been solid all year, but yesterday was the outing I envisioned when we got him--at least until Hammel begins to shit the tub when the calendar hits July.
I wondered why we didn't see him until the 5th game of the year. Then I either read some speculation, or heard JD talk about it, but the thought was that Maddon would basically set up Warren's usage around Hendricks starts. In other words, you know you always want Warren available for 2 innings for a Hendricks start, and you work backwards from there. If that is indeed what they're doing, I think it's a pretty damn clever way to maximize the value you get out of both Warren and Hendricks.
The other nice thing about this is that if Warren is mostly use for 2-3 innings at a time that hopefully means it's easier to stretch him out as a starter if someone gets hurt or Hammel does the whole Second Half Hammel thing again.
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: R-V on April 27, 2016, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: PANK! on April 27, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: SKO on April 27, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
Pulling Hendricks despite a masterful five innings (knowing the third time through the order was coming up anyway) and pinch hitting his best contact hitter on the bench in La Stella with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd in the 5th was some good, proactive managin'
Yes. Nice to get a real true taste of Adam Warren's value as well. I mean, I know he's been solid all year, but yesterday was the outing I envisioned when we got him--at least until Hammel begins to shit the tub when the calendar hits July.
I wondered why we didn't see him until the 5th game of the year. Then I either read some speculation, or heard JD talk about it, but the thought was that Maddon would basically set up Warren's usage around Hendricks starts. In other words, you know you always want Warren available for 2 innings for a Hendricks start, and you work backwards from there. If that is indeed what they're doing, I think it's a pretty damn clever way to maximize the value you get out of both Warren and Hendricks.
I suggested this strategy for the artist formerly known as CJ Edwards last year as a caddy for Wada or Hendricks, since Edwards was mostly being used for multi-inning relief outings in the minors. Pen melted down and said something about how CJ should basically be the closer for all eternity cuz he's super good and not a guy rotting in Iowa due to a continued inability to throw strikes.
This is only tangentially related to the Warren/Hendricks handcuff, but I wanted to point out that Penis wrong again.
I argued with you about that too. I didn't feel their bullpen was deep enough or good enough to get so cute at the time. Maybe I was wrong. I think it's good enough to do what they seem to be doing with Warren now, mostly because Joe says so.
Not a banner night for Joe
Quote from: SKO on May 18, 2016, 11:12:58 PM
Not a banner night for Joe
Yeah, but it was fun watching him get weird in the 12th.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on May 19, 2016, 07:51:12 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 18, 2016, 11:12:58 PM
Not a banner night for Joe
Yeah, but it was fun watching him get weird in the 12th.
Yeah, I mean he's the best manager in baseball, he just gets weirdly bunt happy at the weirdest times and he's done the "pinch run for Rizzo late" thing and never paid for it before because they usually just walked it off that inning or lost, but it's always been dumb. Hopefully he'll reconsider that next time. Oh well.
Quote from: SKO on May 19, 2016, 07:54:54 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on May 19, 2016, 07:51:12 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 18, 2016, 11:12:58 PM
Not a banner night for Joe
Yeah, but it was fun watching him get weird in the 12th.
Yeah, I mean he's the best manager in baseball, he just gets weirdly bunt happy at the weirdest times and he's done the "pinch run for Rizzo late" thing and never paid for it before because they usually just walked it off that inning or lost, but it's always been dumb. Hopefully he'll reconsider that next time. Oh well.
That was a weird one. Maybe he just does it because he never intends to give Rizzo a day off ever.
Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I almost think that Maddon does crazy shit like that to shake up his team and keep them on their toes. Maybe he thought his players were getting a little too comfortable, and they have been struggling to score runs, so he took them out of their comfort zones and tried to make the unusual happen.
Quote from: Canadouche on May 19, 2016, 11:02:34 AM
Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I almost think that Maddon does crazy shit like that to shake up his team and keep them on their toes. Maybe he thought his players were getting a little too comfortable, and they have been struggling to score runs, so he took them out of their comfort zones and tried to make the unusual happen.
Ahh yes, the old "your team is struggling to score runs, so inspire them by giving up an out in front of David Ross and John Lackey" approach. That's some good zany shit there.
Quote from: Canadouche on May 19, 2016, 11:02:34 AM
Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I almost think that Maddon does crazy shit like that to shake up his team and keep them on their toes. Maybe he thought his players were getting a little too comfortable, and they have been struggling to score runs, so he took them out of their comfort zones and tried to make the unusual happen.
Let's go with that.
Quote from: SKO on May 19, 2016, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on May 19, 2016, 11:02:34 AM
Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I almost think that Maddon does crazy shit like that to shake up his team and keep them on their toes. Maybe he thought his players were getting a little too comfortable, and they have been struggling to score runs, so he took them out of their comfort zones and tried to make the unusual happen.
Ahh yes, the old "your team is struggling to score runs, so inspire them by giving up an out in front of David Ross and John Lackey" approach. That's some good zany shit there.
I almost gave up watching when he sent Cahill in as a pinch hitter. But that was some line drive out that Cahill hit.
Quote from: CBStew on May 19, 2016, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 19, 2016, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on May 19, 2016, 11:02:34 AM
Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I almost think that Maddon does crazy shit like that to shake up his team and keep them on their toes. Maybe he thought his players were getting a little too comfortable, and they have been struggling to score runs, so he took them out of their comfort zones and tried to make the unusual happen.
Ahh yes, the old "your team is struggling to score runs, so inspire them by giving up an out in front of David Ross and John Lackey" approach. That's some good zany shit there.
I almost gave up watching when he sent Cahill in as a pinch hitter. But that was some line drive out that Cahill hit.
Well he didn't really have a choice after burning his entire bench, largely due to pinch running for Rizzo for no reason
The Joe Maddon Game
He pinch runs for Rizzo, uses Montgomery in a tie game in the 9th when Rondon and Strop were available and he knew he was adding an all world closer the next day (not to mention the Sox were fucked in extras since Jones and Robertson were both unavailable), then today he leaves Wood in to walk half of one of the worst offenses in baseball. He's drunk behind the wheel
Bunting with your clean up hitter with no outs to set up a struggling rookie and Jason Heyward is about a thousand different kinds of dumb.
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2016, 03:58:27 PM
Bunting with your clean up hitter with no outs to set up a struggling rookie and Jason Heyward is about a thousand different kinds of dumb.
#bettertactician #betterman
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2016, 03:58:27 PM
Bunting with your clean up hitter with no outs to set up a struggling rookie and Jason Heyward is about a thousand different kinds of dumb.
"struggling rookie" = 4 for 8 in the series up to that point.
Colonel SKurtz:
QuoteThe horror... the horror... We train young men to bunt with with nobody out and runners on first and second, but their managers won't allow them to write "fuck" on their baseball bats because it's obscene!
(http://i.imgur.com/o68Nlbe.jpg)
EDIT: Hat tip to Oleg for the idea.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2016, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2016, 03:58:27 PM
Bunting with your clean up hitter with no outs to set up a struggling rookie and Jason Heyward is about a thousand different kinds of dumb.
"struggling rookie" = 4 for 8 in the series up to that point.
That's quite the sample size you're working with there. He's hitting .224/.328/.276 since the break. I mean I hope he's warming back up as well and he will because he's a great hitter, but the point stands that the bunt there was the wrong play. They won anyway but that doesn't really make it *not* a bad decision.
That said, Joe said he only put the sign up for the first attempt and then called it off once Zobrist got ahead in the count, it was Zobrist deciding he wasn't comfortable facing Rodney's stuff that led to him laying it down the rest of the AB so whatever. Ben Zobrist knows more about what he thinks he can do against Fernando Rodney than I do. Complaint withdrawn.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2016, 10:26:15 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2016, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2016, 03:58:27 PM
Bunting with your clean up hitter with no outs to set up a struggling rookie and Jason Heyward is about a thousand different kinds of dumb.
"struggling rookie" = 4 for 8 in the series up to that point.
That's quite the sample size you're working with there. He's got hitting .224/.328/.276 since the break. I mean I hope he's warming back up as well and he will because he's a great hitter, but the point stands that the bunt there was the wrong play. They won anyway but that doesn't really make it *not* a bad decision.
That said, Joe said he only put the sign up for the first attempt and then called it off once Zobrist got ahead in the count, it was Zobrist deciding he wasn't comfortable facing Rodney's stuff that led to him laying it down the rest of the AB so whatever. Ben Zobrist knows more about what he thinks he can do against Fernando Rodney than I do. Complaint withdrawn.
Photoshop stands.
Quote from: morpheus on August 04, 2016, 10:08:13 AM
Colonel SKurtz:
QuoteThe horror... the horror... We train young men to bunt with with nobody out and runners on first and second, but their managers won't allow them to write "fuck" on their baseball bats because it's obscene!
(http://i.imgur.com/o68Nlbe.jpg)
EDIT: Hat tip to Oleg for the idea.
I'm very uncomfortable with how weird I look without hair
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2016, 10:27:54 AM
Quote from: morpheus on August 04, 2016, 10:08:13 AM
Colonel SKurtz:
QuoteThe horror... the horror... We train young men to bunt with with nobody out and runners on first and second, but their managers won't allow them to write "fuck" on their baseball bats because it's obscene!
(http://i.imgur.com/o68Nlbe.jpg)
EDIT: Hat tip to Oleg for the idea.
I'm very uncomfortable with how weird I look without hair
Real mean comb with razor blades--give it a shot!
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2016, 10:26:15 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2016, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2016, 03:58:27 PM
Bunting with your clean up hitter with no outs to set up a struggling rookie and Jason Heyward is about a thousand different kinds of dumb.
"struggling rookie" = 4 for 8 in the series up to that point.
That's quite the sample size you're working with there.
Maybe, but if Joe saw him struggling, he had both Russell (who has driven damn near as many runs as Bryant, FWIW) and Sczcur ready to pinch hit, and he left Contreras in there after the bunt.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2016, 01:04:28 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2016, 10:26:15 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2016, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2016, 03:58:27 PM
Bunting with your clean up hitter with no outs to set up a struggling rookie and Jason Heyward is about a thousand different kinds of dumb.
"struggling rookie" = 4 for 8 in the series up to that point.
That's quite the sample size you're working with there.
Maybe, but if Joe saw him struggling, he had both Russell (who has driven damn near as many runs as Bryant, FWIW) and Sczcur ready to pinch hit, and he left Contreras in there after the bunt.
That's not really my point? I don't care if Joe saw him as struggling or not, the situation is they had guys on first and second with no out and the cleanup hitter batting against a guy who couldn't throw strikes. Giving up an out there, and reducing yourself to two chances (one of which would be that a guy with a .640 OPS gets a 2 out hit) decreased their win probability and their run expectancy in that situation.
It was without question the wrong move, but again Joe changed his mind after Rodney fell behind in the count, and the rest was Zobrist's decision, so I withdraw the complaint about Joe. He saw the error of his ways and the rest was Zobrist lacking the confidence to do much against Rodney's change up and assuming he could help the team better by bunting. I'd urge him to have more faith in himself next time, I guess, but it's not the strategic blunder it seemed at the time.
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
Lol
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
I was telling this to my brother as the 8th inning began. After Chapman surrendered the lead, I turned off the TV and went to bed.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
Jesus, dude
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 08:31:26 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.
If Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
To put it another way: only managers who can effectively manage bullpens should manage the Cubs.
And it wasn't just last night. There have been several questionable instances of bullpen use this season and some outright debacles (the extra inning game in Milwaukee in May-ish).
It's counter-productive to have Theo's acquisitions thwarted by poor asset management.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 08:31:26 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.
If Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
To put it another way: only managers who can effectively manage bullpens should manage the Cubs.
And it wasn't just last night. There have been several questionable instances of bullpen use this season and some outright debacles (the extra inning game in Milwaukee in May-ish).
It's counter-productive to have Theo's acquisitions thwarted by poor asset management.
You entirely deserve the backlash that you are about to experience.
Quote from: Canadouche on October 11, 2016, 09:37:36 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 08:31:26 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.
If Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
To put it another way: only managers who can effectively manage bullpens should manage the Cubs.
And it wasn't just last night. There have been several questionable instances of bullpen use this season and some outright debacles (the extra inning game in Milwaukee in May-ish).
It's counter-productive to have Theo's acquisitions thwarted by poor asset management.
You entirely deserve the backlash that you are about to experience.
It'll be nice to link to after tonight.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 09:31:39 AMTheo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
So. There's probably a sliver of truth here. Bullpen management probably is Joe's weakest element as a manager. But I'm not sure that anyone is recognized as a great bullpen tactician or whatever because the mistakes are always going to scream louder than any correct call.
But again, c'mon. He's not getting replaced in favor of someone who can manage a bullpen perfectly in October, because that person doesn't exist.
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 08:31:26 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.
Joe putting his trust in his former closer in the 8th is an understandable decision, although I think most of us would agree it was the wrong one.
If the Cubs lose the series, I would put the blame on the fact that the pitching has been responsible for more runs than the rest of the offense. Rizzo, in particular, has been awful. The Cubs bats need to wake up, and if they don't,
that is why they will have lost.
Quote from: Canadouche on October 11, 2016, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 08:31:26 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.
Joe putting his trust in his former closer in the 8th is an understandable decision, although I think most of us would agree it was the wrong one.
If the Cubs lose the series, I would put the blame on the fact that the pitching has been responsible for more runs than the rest of the offense. Rizzo, in particular, has been awful. The Cubs bats need to wake up, and if they don't, that is why they will have lost.
I always hate this line of reasoning. Yes, the offense should do better, etc. But this is October and the Giants pitch well and sometimes 3 runs in a game started by Madison Bumgarner are all you're going to get. You need to win games where guys don't hit well if you still manage to carry a lead into the 8th inning. If they lose two more games and lose this series, of course there'd be things that are probably more worthy of blame than Joe mismanaging the 8th inning, but the fact of the matter is he did fuck it up and it did potentially cost them the ballgame and hand-waving it away because "players need to do better, too" excuses far too many managerial sins. He did not put his team in the best position to win, that's on him.
That said, I actually think Joe tends to learn from his mistakes, and rather than trying to play matchups next time they have a set up like last night I'd bet he just puts Chapman in to face the heart of the order if they are due again in the 8th rather than dicking around first.
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 09:40:49 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 09:31:39 AMTheo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
So. There's probably a sliver of truth here. Bullpen management probably is Joe's weakest element as a manager. But I'm not sure that anyone is recognized as a great bullpen tactician or whatever because the mistakes are always going to scream louder than any correct call.
But again, c'mon. He's not getting replaced in favor of someone who can manage a bullpen perfectly in October, because that person doesn't exist.
Maybe, but Francona's use of Andrew Miller seems to come from a bullpen management paradigm entirely different than Joe's, and one that I think is correct.
I just wish Joe had given the 8th to Chapman and the 9th to Rondon
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 10:01:41 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 09:40:49 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 09:31:39 AMTheo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
So. There's probably a sliver of truth here. Bullpen management probably is Joe's weakest element as a manager. But I'm not sure that anyone is recognized as a great bullpen tactician or whatever because the mistakes are always going to scream louder than any correct call.
But again, c'mon. He's not getting replaced in favor of someone who can manage a bullpen perfectly in October, because that person doesn't exist.
Maybe, but Francona's use of Andrew Miller seems to come from a bullpen management paradigm entirely different than Joe's, and one that I think is correct.
I just wish Joe had given the 8th to Chapman and the 9th to Rondon
I agree with this. I do think there is something to giving your back-end guys a clean inning to start with. I would've let Strop finish the 7th, and then gone Chapman to start the 8th. If he gets through it with a lead and without throwing 30 pitches, you send him back out for the 9th. That also prevents you from burning Rondon & Wood in case it goes extras.
Quote from: R-V on October 11, 2016, 10:24:02 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 10:01:41 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 09:40:49 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 09:31:39 AMTheo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
So. There's probably a sliver of truth here. Bullpen management probably is Joe's weakest element as a manager. But I'm not sure that anyone is recognized as a great bullpen tactician or whatever because the mistakes are always going to scream louder than any correct call.
But again, c'mon. He's not getting replaced in favor of someone who can manage a bullpen perfectly in October, because that person doesn't exist.
Maybe, but Francona's use of Andrew Miller seems to come from a bullpen management paradigm entirely different than Joe's, and one that I think is correct.
I just wish Joe had given the 8th to Chapman and the 9th to Rondon
I agree with this. I do think there is something to giving your back-end guys a clean inning to start with. I would've let Strop finish the 7th, and then gone Chapman to start the 8th. If he gets through it with a lead and without throwing 30 pitches, you send him back out for the 9th. That also prevents you from burning Rondon & Wood in case it goes extras.
I think Joe had a regular-season mentality with that inning, like he was trying to sneak by with Wood/Rondon and not use Chapman unless he had to. That makes sense in June when you're thinking long haul and wanting to conserve guys. But there's no benefit to "getting by" with lesser pitchers in the postseason (to a point).
This all makes more sense in my head but I'm probably too tired to properly articulate it.
Didn't Chapman say he doesn't like to come in the game in the middle of an inning? That was the most important thing to me. If that's what he needs to be comfortable, then so be it. Eli is right... he was managing like a regular season game trying to squeeze more out of lesser relievers, but then he managed Chapman like a post season game by using him in a crucial situation even though Chapman doesn't like to work that way. Joe did everything backwards last night.
Maddon explained his strategy, per an article by Bruce Miles. He liked the matchups between Wood and Rondon vs. Belt and Posey. It's hard to fault that, except Rondon hasn't been great since coming back from his injury. To be fair, I think many of us were second guessing the decision before Wood threw his first pitch to Belt. But is this something in which we turn on Maddon? I don't think so. That is an overreaction to the extreme.
Quote from: Tony on October 11, 2016, 11:31:35 AM
Didn't Chapman say he doesn't like to come in the game in the middle of an inning? That was the most important thing to me. If that's what he needs to be comfortable, then so be it. Eli is right... he was managing like a regular season game trying to squeeze more out of lesser relievers, but then he managed Chapman like a post season game by using him in a crucial situation even though Chapman doesn't like to work that way. Joe did everything backwards last night.
Yeah, frankly I'd have been less annoyed by his thought process (although I was already screaming for Chapman before the inning started) if he'd just let Rondon try and work his way out of it. Saying "I wasn't going to use Chapman in a situation he's said he's uncomfortable with, and I have faith in Hector" annoys me less than "I was willing to use Chapman in the 8th, but only after I'd let everyone else dick it up first and then used him in a spot where he's uncomfortable."
Quote from: Canadouche on October 11, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
Maddon explained his strategy, per an article by Bruce Miles. He liked the matchups between Wood and Rondon vs. Belt and Posey. It's hard to fault that, except Rondon hasn't been great since coming back from his injury. To be fair, I think many of us were second guessing the decision before Wood threw his first pitch to Belt. But is this something in which we turn on Maddon? I don't think so. That is an overreaction to the extreme.
It's not hard to fault that at all. Belt has an .883 OPS vs lefties and an OBP of nearly .400, and Wood walks a ton of guys. Rondon's been mostly ass since his arm started hurting. Posey has struggled mightily with velocity this year to the point that even the brain dead FS1 crew noticed, and he opted not to use the guy that throws 104 mph against him.
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on October 11, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
Maddon explained his strategy, per an article by Bruce Miles. He liked the matchups between Wood and Rondon vs. Belt and Posey. It's hard to fault that, except Rondon hasn't been great since coming back from his injury. To be fair, I think many of us were second guessing the decision before Wood threw his first pitch to Belt. But is this something in which we turn on Maddon? I don't think so. That is an overreaction to the extreme.
It's not hard to fault that at all. Belt has an .883 OPS vs lefties and an OBP of nearly .400, and Wood walks a ton of guys. Rondon's been mostly ass since his arm started hurting. Posey has struggled mightily with velocity this year to the point that even the brain dead FS1 crew noticed, and he opted not to use the guy that throws 104 mph against him.
I feel like he may have read too much into Posey's Game 1 AB against Chapman.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:56:17 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on October 11, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
Maddon explained his strategy, per an article by Bruce Miles. He liked the matchups between Wood and Rondon vs. Belt and Posey. It's hard to fault that, except Rondon hasn't been great since coming back from his injury. To be fair, I think many of us were second guessing the decision before Wood threw his first pitch to Belt. But is this something in which we turn on Maddon? I don't think so. That is an overreaction to the extreme.
It's not hard to fault that at all. Belt has an .883 OPS vs lefties and an OBP of nearly .400, and Wood walks a ton of guys. Rondon's been mostly ass since his arm started hurting. Posey has struggled mightily with velocity this year to the point that even the brain dead FS1 crew noticed, and he opted not to use the guy that throws 104 mph against him.
I feel like he may have read too much into Posey's Game 1 AB against Chapman.
545/545/818 in 11 career ABs. Not a huge sample, but he's fared pretty well against Chapman.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 08:31:26 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.
If Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
To put it another way: only managers who can effectively manage bullpens should manage the Cubs.
And it wasn't just last night. There have been several questionable instances of bullpen use this season and some outright debacles (the extra inning game in Milwaukee in May-ish).
It's counter-productive to have Theo's acquisitions thwarted by poor asset management.
Go away
Quote from: Slaky on October 11, 2016, 08:18:17 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2016, 08:31:26 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 12:10:25 AM
If you're willing to use Chapman in the eighth LET HIM START THE FUCKING 8TH AGAINST THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN ORDER.
Joe fucked up good
It should be Joe's head if they lose this series.
He was terrible last night, but c'mon dude.
If Theo is going to give up significant assets to acquire rentals, he has to have a manager that will use those assets optimally in the postseason. I love Joe, and he could be Jeebus otherwise, but if he can't effectively use a bullpen in the postseason, he has no business managing a WS contender.
To put it another way: only managers who can effectively manage bullpens should manage the Cubs.
And it wasn't just last night. There have been several questionable instances of bullpen use this season and some outright debacles (the extra inning game in Milwaukee in May-ish).
It's counter-productive to have Theo's acquisitions thwarted by poor asset management.
Go away
Do you think Joe sleeps with one of Travis Wood's jerseys at night so that he's never too far away from his heloved
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 09:43:29 PM
Do you think Joe sleeps with one of Travis Wood's jerseys at night so that he's never too far away from his heloved
I think he's taken notice of the 7 LHH in the Giants lineup and decided to give Montgomery the night off seeing as how he threw 5 innings last night/this morning or whatever. Just a hunch.
Quote from: ChuckD on October 11, 2016, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 09:43:29 PM
Do you think Joe sleeps with one of Travis Wood's jerseys at night so that he's never too far away from his heloved
I think he's taken notice of the 7 LHH in the Giants lineup and decided to give Montgomery the night off seeing as how he threw 5 innings last night/this morning or whatever. Just a hunch.
Cool. Maybe he could take notice of the fact that Wood doesn't strike anyone out and either of those runs scoring probably meant the game so maybe leave in Grimm the guy who gets Ks and is good vs lefties rather than play the flyball pitcher who never Ks anyone with runners on 2nd and 3rd. But handedness.
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 10:08:42 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 11, 2016, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 09:43:29 PM
Do you think Joe sleeps with one of Travis Wood's jerseys at night so that he's never too far away from his heloved
I think he's taken notice of the 7 LHH in the Giants lineup and decided to give Montgomery the night off seeing as how he threw 5 innings last night/this morning or whatever. Just a hunch.
Cool. Maybe he could take notice of the fact that Wood doesn't strike anyone out and either of those runs scoring probably meant the game so maybe leave in Grimm the guy who gets Ks and is good vs lefties rather than play the flyball pitcher who never Ks anyone with runners on 2nd and 3rd. But handedness.
Or maybe he should've gone to Edwards first, Strop 2nd, etc. and pitched his best relievers to keep it close.
But everything you said too.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 10:20:20 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 10:08:42 PM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 11, 2016, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 09:43:29 PM
Do you think Joe sleeps with one of Travis Wood's jerseys at night so that he's never too far away from his heloved
I think he's taken notice of the 7 LHH in the Giants lineup and decided to give Montgomery the night off seeing as how he threw 5 innings last night/this morning or whatever. Just a hunch.
Cool. Maybe he could take notice of the fact that Wood doesn't strike anyone out and either of those runs scoring probably meant the game so maybe leave in Grimm the guy who gets Ks and is good vs lefties rather than play the flyball pitcher who never Ks anyone with runners on 2nd and 3rd. But handedness.
Or maybe he should've gone to Edwards first, Strop 2nd, etc. and pitched his best relievers to keep it close.
But everything you said too.
You two stay in holiday inn express last night?
I take all of my criticisms back because he played Bruce Bochy like a fucking fiddle in the 9th
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 11:19:42 PM
I take all of my criticisms back because he played Bruce Bochy like a fucking fiddle in the 9th
SKO, the anti-Yellon.
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 11:19:42 PM
I take all of my criticisms back because he played Bruce Bochy like a fucking fiddle in the 9th
He really did pull off the Russell-to-Coghlan-to-WillyCon thread to get the best possible matchup in that situation. Had Bochy called the bluff and let Romo face Coghlan, I'd say the outcome would be a little less likely.
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 11:19:42 PM
I take all of my criticisms back because he played Bruce Bochy like a fucking fiddle in the 9th
Yeah, this. My bad.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 11, 2016, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 11:19:42 PM
I take all of my criticisms back because he played Bruce Bochy like a fucking fiddle in the 9th
Yeah, this. My bad.
Quote from: air2300 on October 11, 2016, 10:45:51 PM
You two stay in holiday inn express last night?
He also made a nice move getting Chapman out after 21 pitches Monday night, rather than letting him throw who-knows-how-many-more to get out of the ninth. It left him ready to rock last night.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 11, 2016, 11:32:00 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 11, 2016, 11:19:42 PM
I take all of my criticisms back because he played Bruce Bochy like a fucking fiddle in the 9th
He really did pull off the Russell-to-Coghlan-to-WillyCon thread to get the best possible matchup in that situation. Had Bochy called the bluff and let Romo face Coghlan, I'd say the outcome would be a little less likely.
Even so, and god help me, the way Coghlan has swung the bat lately vs Russell's ongoing month long funk (and his struggles in general with sliders), pinch hitting Coghlan for Russell was already a pretty bold move I'd never have expected and probably would have given them a slightly better chance of getting contact and getting the runner at 3rd home at least. The fact that it ended up just being gamesmanship to trick Bochy into bringing in a lefty to face Willson was even better.
Not pinch hitting for Heyward sure is a thing
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
Better tactician, better man.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
Only the keenest tacticians understand that letting your left handed hitter with the .600 OPS face the Greatest Pitcher On the Planet (who is left handed) is actually smart
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
He's right though.
Quote from: Eli on October 16, 2016, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
He's right though.
He may be right here, but SKOblood has been on Joe's ass the whole playoffs, because SKOblood knows better than Joe
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 07:23:28 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 16, 2016, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
He's right though.
He may be right here, but SKOblood has been on Joe's ass the whole playoffs, because SKOblood knows better than Joe
I've complained about three things with Joe.
1) Being willing to use Chapman in the 8th but not willing to just start the inning with him, instead waiting until he's already in a jam despite Chapman being uncomfortable pitching with inherited runners. He's done it twice now, both time it's blown up in his face. Compared with the way Roberts and Francona have deployed Jansen and Miller, Joe's use of Chapman is pretty disappointing.
2) Using Travis Wood, who doesn't strike anyone out, to try to strand two inherited runners on 2nd and 3rd in a game where any of those runs could have been the ballgame. Joe had Edwards/Strop/Rondon all available and could have gone to one of his strikeout guys. If that hadn't worked out, fine, but the process was terrible. You were in a situation where you needed a strikeout or at least a groundball and he went to a flyball pitcher who strikes nobody out. Shockingly, both runs scored.
3)Letting Heyward, a lefty with a .631 OPS, face Kershaw in the biggest AB of the night. If you have Heyward in "because of his defense", then fucking pull him there, pinch hit Soler, and sub in Almora if RF defense is that important to you.
I've been on Joe's ass because Joe's been wrong, if your defense of him is "he's the manager and you're not," I suggest tolerating a little less bullshit.
DPD, but I get why no one wants to hear it from me, the guy who complains about everything, but unless you can actually explain why those specific complaints are wrong, they're not invalid.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
DPD, but I get why no one wants to hear it from me, the guy who complains about everything, but unless you can actually explain why those specific complaints are wrong, they're not invalid.
I don't disagree with those. Calling Maddon an "OVERRATED HACK*" is some weapons-grade meatball, though.
* I'm like 90% sure that that was your wording including the all-caps. I don't want to look at your Twitter to confirm it, though because it's terrible.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
DPD, but I get why no one wants to hear it from me, the guy who complains about everything, but unless you can actually explain why those specific complaints are wrong, they're not invalid.
I do agree with you, although you're right, I don't want to hear it from you and do I think you overreact. My only bone of contention would be with Joe's use of Chapman. At the start of the innings in question I didn't smell trouble and I wasn't screaming for Chapman. I thought, as I suspect Joe did, that whoever was starting the inning would probably be able to get through it without the Cubs having to resort to the nuclear option. However, I would agree that he left it too late and should probably have brought Chapman in, in each instance, after the first baserunner got on. You don't know it's a high-leverage situation until it starts to become a high-leverage situation, though, know what I mean?
Quote from: ChuckD on October 17, 2016, 08:06:25 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
DPD, but I get why no one wants to hear it from me, the guy who complains about everything, but unless you can actually explain why those specific complaints are wrong, they're not invalid.
I don't disagree with those. Calling Maddon an "OVERRATED HACK*" is some weapons-grade meatball, though.
* I'm like 90% sure that that was your wording including the all-caps. I don't want to look at your Twitter to confirm it, though because it's terrible.
This is probably unfair, but I'd like to separate my insane twitter ramblings from my more composed desipio arguments, if it pleases the court. I try harder to lodge only legitimate, non meatball complaints here.
Quote from: Tonker on October 17, 2016, 08:08:46 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
DPD, but I get why no one wants to hear it from me, the guy who complains about everything, but unless you can actually explain why those specific complaints are wrong, they're not invalid.
I do agree with you, although you're right, I don't want to hear it from you and do I think you overreact. My only bone of contention would be with Joe's use of Chapman. At the start of the innings in question I didn't smell trouble and I wasn't screaming for Chapman. I thought, as I suspect Joe did, that whoever was starting the inning would probably be able to get through it without the Cubs having to resort to the nuclear option. However, I would agree that he left it too late and should probably have brought Chapman in, in each instance, after the first baserunner got on. You don't know it's a high-leverage situation until it starts to become a high-leverage situation, though, know what I mean?
This. I was fine with him trying to let Montgomery get the lefty pinch hitter, but then go to Chapman right away. Don't even bother with Strop.
In game 3 against SF though I wanted him to just start the inning with Chapman because the Giants had Belt-Posey-Pence due up. Use your closer to get their best three hitters, 8th inning be damned. If you don't want to use Chapman for 2 innings after that, fine, that's why your GM spent everything to give you Super Bullpen so you'd have multiple options. Let Rondon go after the bottom of their order in the 9th.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 08:20:21 AM
Quote from: Tonker on October 17, 2016, 08:08:46 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
DPD, but I get why no one wants to hear it from me, the guy who complains about everything, but unless you can actually explain why those specific complaints are wrong, they're not invalid.
I do agree with you, although you're right, I don't want to hear it from you and do I think you overreact. My only bone of contention would be with Joe's use of Chapman. At the start of the innings in question I didn't smell trouble and I wasn't screaming for Chapman. I thought, as I suspect Joe did, that whoever was starting the inning would probably be able to get through it without the Cubs having to resort to the nuclear option. However, I would agree that he left it too late and should probably have brought Chapman in, in each instance, after the first baserunner got on. You don't know it's a high-leverage situation until it starts to become a high-leverage situation, though, know what I mean?
This. I was fine with him trying to let Montgomery get the lefty pinch hitter, but then go to Chapman right away. Don't even bother with Strop.
In game 3 against SF though I wanted him to just start the inning with Chapman because the Giants had Belt-Posey-Pence due up. Use your closer to get their best three hitters, 8th inning be damned. If you don't want to use Chapman for 2 innings after that, fine, that's why your GM spent everything to give you Super Bullpen so you'd have multiple options. Let Rondon go after the bottom of their order in the 9th.
Don't forget it was fucking Gillaspie, Crawford and Panik who were killing the Cubs with their thousand jammy, spawny little cuts - not Belt, Posey and Pence.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:42:04 AM
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 07:23:28 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 16, 2016, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
He's right though.
He may be right here, but SKOblood has been on Joe's ass the whole playoffs, because SKOblood knows better than Joe
I've complained about three things with Joe.
1) Being willing to use Chapman in the 8th but not willing to just start the inning with him, instead waiting until he's already in a jam despite Chapman being uncomfortable pitching with inherited runners. He's done it twice now, both time it's blown up in his face. Compared with the way Roberts and Francona have deployed Jansen and Miller, Joe's use of Chapman is pretty disappointing.
2) Using Travis Wood, who doesn't strike anyone out, to try to strand two inherited runners on 2nd and 3rd in a game where any of those runs could have been the ballgame. Joe had Edwards/Strop/Rondon all available and could have gone to one of his strikeout guys. If that hadn't worked out, fine, but the process was terrible. You were in a situation where you needed a strikeout or at least a groundball and he went to a flyball pitcher who strikes nobody out. Shockingly, both runs scored.
3)Letting Heyward, a lefty with a .631 OPS, face Kershaw in the biggest AB of the night. If you have Heyward in "because of his defense", then fucking pull him there, pinch hit Soler, and sub in Almora if RF defense is that important to you.
I've been on Joe's ass because Joe's been wrong, if your defense of him is "he's the manager and you're not," I suggest tolerating a little less bullshit.
So, should Joe had let Strop ride it out once it got out of control? Just because Fuckface doesn't like a non-clean inning? Strop and Montgomery should have done their jobs in the first place. Chapman, who is the Cubs best and most effective reliever, was their backup. They fucked up, and Chapman struck out 2 before Gonzalez was able to hit a 102mph pitch into CF.
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 08:42:30 AM
So, should Joe had let Strop ride it out once it got out of control? Just because Fuckface doesn't like a non-clean inning? Strop and Montgomery should have done their jobs in the first place.
I see this has been answered.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 08:20:21 AM
This. I was fine with him trying to let Montgomery get the lefty pinch hitter, but then go to Chapman right away. Don't even bother with Strop.
Though, if you're going to move the goalposts:
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:42:04 AM
1) Being willing to use Chapman in the 8th but not willing to just start the inning with him, instead waiting until he's already in a jam despite Chapman being uncomfortable pitching with inherited runners.
then it makes it hard to argue the point with you
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 08:42:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:42:04 AM
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 07:23:28 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 16, 2016, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
He's right though.
He may be right here, but SKOblood has been on Joe's ass the whole playoffs, because SKOblood knows better than Joe
I've complained about three things with Joe.
1) Being willing to use Chapman in the 8th but not willing to just start the inning with him, instead waiting until he's already in a jam despite Chapman being uncomfortable pitching with inherited runners. He's done it twice now, both time it's blown up in his face. Compared with the way Roberts and Francona have deployed Jansen and Miller, Joe's use of Chapman is pretty disappointing.
2) Using Travis Wood, who doesn't strike anyone out, to try to strand two inherited runners on 2nd and 3rd in a game where any of those runs could have been the ballgame. Joe had Edwards/Strop/Rondon all available and could have gone to one of his strikeout guys. If that hadn't worked out, fine, but the process was terrible. You were in a situation where you needed a strikeout or at least a groundball and he went to a flyball pitcher who strikes nobody out. Shockingly, both runs scored.
3)Letting Heyward, a lefty with a .631 OPS, face Kershaw in the biggest AB of the night. If you have Heyward in "because of his defense", then fucking pull him there, pinch hit Soler, and sub in Almora if RF defense is that important to you.
I've been on Joe's ass because Joe's been wrong, if your defense of him is "he's the manager and you're not," I suggest tolerating a little less bullshit.
So, should Joe had let Strop ride it out once it got out of control? Just because Fuckface doesn't like a non-clean inning? Strop and Montgomery should have done their jobs in the first place. Chapman, who is the Cubs best and most effective reliever, was their backup. They fucked up, and Chapman struck out 2 before Gonzalez was able to hit a 102mph pitch into CF.
"the player should just do their jobs" is the worst argument when it comes to managers. If your argument in favor of the manager is managerial irrelevance, why bother defending the manager at all? Of course they should just get outs, but hey, they're less likely to do so than Aroldis Chapman, and Joe should know that. Dave Roberts understands that about Pedro Baez, which is why Kenley Jansen came in last night to lock down a win. Heyward "should" just get a fucking hit at some point. He hasn't all fucking year, so it's up to the manager to understand that and stop writing his name in the damn lineup card.
And no, Joe was still right to bring Chapman in eventually, he gave them their best chance of getting
out of the jam, but if they'd just used him earlier there's probably no jam in the first place. This shouldn't be hard to grasp.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 08:53:11 AM
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 08:42:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:42:04 AM
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 07:23:28 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 16, 2016, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
He's right though.
He may be right here, but SKOblood has been on Joe's ass the whole playoffs, because SKOblood knows better than Joe
I've complained about three things with Joe.
1) Being willing to use Chapman in the 8th but not willing to just start the inning with him, instead waiting until he's already in a jam despite Chapman being uncomfortable pitching with inherited runners. He's done it twice now, both time it's blown up in his face. Compared with the way Roberts and Francona have deployed Jansen and Miller, Joe's use of Chapman is pretty disappointing.
2) Using Travis Wood, who doesn't strike anyone out, to try to strand two inherited runners on 2nd and 3rd in a game where any of those runs could have been the ballgame. Joe had Edwards/Strop/Rondon all available and could have gone to one of his strikeout guys. If that hadn't worked out, fine, but the process was terrible. You were in a situation where you needed a strikeout or at least a groundball and he went to a flyball pitcher who strikes nobody out. Shockingly, both runs scored.
3)Letting Heyward, a lefty with a .631 OPS, face Kershaw in the biggest AB of the night. If you have Heyward in "because of his defense", then fucking pull him there, pinch hit Soler, and sub in Almora if RF defense is that important to you.
I've been on Joe's ass because Joe's been wrong, if your defense of him is "he's the manager and you're not," I suggest tolerating a little less bullshit.
So, should Joe had let Strop ride it out once it got out of control? Just because Fuckface doesn't like a non-clean inning? Strop and Montgomery should have done their jobs in the first place. Chapman, who is the Cubs best and most effective reliever, was their backup. They fucked up, and Chapman struck out 2 before Gonzalez was able to hit a 102mph pitch into CF.
"the player should just do their jobs" is the worst argument when it comes to managers. If your argument in favor of the manager is managerial irrelevance, why bother defending the manager at all? Of course they should just get outs, but hey, they're less likely to do so than Aroldis Chapman, and Joe should know that. Dave Roberts understands that about Pedro Baez, which is why Kenley Jansen came in last night to lock down a win. Heyward "should" just get a fucking hit at some point. He hasn't all fucking year, so it's up to the manager to understand that and stop writing his name in the damn lineup card.
And no, Joe was still right to bring Chapman in eventually, he gave them their best chance of getting out of the jam, but if they'd just used him earlier there's probably no jam in the first place. This shouldn't be hard to grasp.
Yeah, although there is at least a method to it. Joe told Chapman the first guy he was going to face was Corey Seager, and clearly was hoping that would be in the ninth. He was hoping to only use him for inning since there was a game the next night (unlike last night's game) No, you don't have to like it, but that's how it is.
Meanwhile brilliant bullpen tactician Dave Roberts was issuing intentional walks to the two biggest slapdicks on the playoff roster, so I guess playoff managers just be crazy, amirite?
Quote from: CT III on October 17, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 08:53:11 AM
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 08:42:30 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2016, 07:42:04 AM
Quote from: Yeti on October 17, 2016, 07:23:28 AM
Quote from: Eli on October 16, 2016, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 16, 2016, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2016, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Armchair_QB on October 16, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
This is all Lackey's fault for getting Schwarber hurt...
He'd have sat tonight so Heyward could be in on defense. Need lockdown right field defense behind Kyle Hendricks, the guy that induces more grounders and weak contact than anyone in baseball. Worth mailing in four ABs including your only AB with a RISP for that. Yessir
Matthew SKOblood
He's right though.
He may be right here, but SKOblood has been on Joe's ass the whole playoffs, because SKOblood knows better than Joe
I've complained about three things with Joe.
1) Being willing to use Chapman in the 8th but not willing to just start the inning with him, instead waiting until he's already in a jam despite Chapman being uncomfortable pitching with inherited runners. He's done it twice now, both time it's blown up in his face. Compared with the way Roberts and Francona have deployed Jansen and Miller, Joe's use of Chapman is pretty disappointing.
2) Using Travis Wood, who doesn't strike anyone out, to try to strand two inherited runners on 2nd and 3rd in a game where any of those runs could have been the ballgame. Joe had Edwards/Strop/Rondon all available and could have gone to one of his strikeout guys. If that hadn't worked out, fine, but the process was terrible. You were in a situation where you needed a strikeout or at least a groundball and he went to a flyball pitcher who strikes nobody out. Shockingly, both runs scored.
3)Letting Heyward, a lefty with a .631 OPS, face Kershaw in the biggest AB of the night. If you have Heyward in "because of his defense", then fucking pull him there, pinch hit Soler, and sub in Almora if RF defense is that important to you.
I've been on Joe's ass because Joe's been wrong, if your defense of him is "he's the manager and you're not," I suggest tolerating a little less bullshit.
So, should Joe had let Strop ride it out once it got out of control? Just because Fuckface doesn't like a non-clean inning? Strop and Montgomery should have done their jobs in the first place. Chapman, who is the Cubs best and most effective reliever, was their backup. They fucked up, and Chapman struck out 2 before Gonzalez was able to hit a 102mph pitch into CF.
"the player should just do their jobs" is the worst argument when it comes to managers. If your argument in favor of the manager is managerial irrelevance, why bother defending the manager at all? Of course they should just get outs, but hey, they're less likely to do so than Aroldis Chapman, and Joe should know that. Dave Roberts understands that about Pedro Baez, which is why Kenley Jansen came in last night to lock down a win. Heyward "should" just get a fucking hit at some point. He hasn't all fucking year, so it's up to the manager to understand that and stop writing his name in the damn lineup card.
And no, Joe was still right to bring Chapman in eventually, he gave them their best chance of getting out of the jam, but if they'd just used him earlier there's probably no jam in the first place. This shouldn't be hard to grasp.
Yeah, although there is at least a method to it. Joe told Chapman the first guy he was going to face was Corey Seager, and clearly was hoping that would be in the ninth. He was hoping to only use him for inning since there was a game the next night (unlike last night's game) No, you don't have to like it, but that's how it is.
Meanwhile brilliant bullpen tactician Dave Roberts was issuing intentional walks to the two biggest slapdicks on the playoff roster, so I guess playoff managers just be crazy, amirite?
Yeah I didn't mean to hold up Roberts as a paragon of great management. I think Joe still is better than him at a lot of things (frankly I can't remember ever being mad at Joe ordering a nonsensical intentional BB), I just think Joe is way too conventional with his bullpen usage.
I think if Rondon was pitching like he did before the injury, Joe would be handling the bullpen a lot differently and there wouldn't be nearly the amont of SKOcend guessing going on. Hector has not been the same since he came back and it's turned the Cubs bullpen from a great one into one that scares the shit out of me.
Quote from: R-V on October 17, 2016, 11:38:16 AM
I think if Rondon was pitching like he did before the injury, Joe would be handling the bullpen a lot differently and there wouldn't be nearly the amont of SKOcend guessing going on. Hector has not been the same since he came back and it's turned the Cubs bullpen from a great one into one that scares the shit out of me.
That's fair. Hector's been kinda hard to evaluate so far this postseason. He looked very solid in game 2 against the Giants. I don't know how to weight his appearance in game 3. He missed badly while walking Posey but it was pretty clear he was mostly just not going to give in to Buster. He looked good while getting the win in game 4. Saturday night he gave up some screamers but he was pitching with a five run lead and I'd rather he go right after guys than take a chance on walking anybody.
Lineup is out. Heyward over Soler or Almora.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 19, 2016, 03:36:45 PM
Lineup is out. Heyward over Soler or Almora.
Whatever. I had something else in mind but like I said, it doesn't matter if Dextony Rizzobrist doesn't hit.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on October 19, 2016, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 19, 2016, 03:36:45 PM
Lineup is out. Heyward over Soler or Almora.
Whatever. I had something else in mind but like I said, it doesn't matter if Dextony Rizzobrist doesn't hit.
With Lackey being fairly fly ball heavy, I can see not sending Soler out there.
Sticking with Heyward is mind numbing. Fucking bat him 9th if you do...
Hopefully Jason can rebuild his swing in the offseason, because he's making Carl Crawford look like a genius signing.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 19, 2016, 07:44:49 PM
Sticking with Heyward is mind numbing. Fucking bat him 9th if you do...
Hopefully Jason can rebuild his swing in the offseason, because he's making Carl Crawford look like a genius signing.
I ..... agree? If he can't do anything with multiple fastballs right down the middle with runners on in a playoff game, he has no business being out there. I'd like to see Almora or Jorge take his next AB.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 19, 2016, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 19, 2016, 07:44:49 PM
Sticking with Heyward is mind numbing. Fucking bat him 9th if you do...
Hopefully Jason can rebuild his swing in the offseason, because he's making Carl Crawford look like a genius signing.
I ..... agree? If he can't do anything with multiple fastballs right down the middle with runners on in a playoff game, he has no business being out there. I'd like to see Almora or Jorge take his next AB.
Almora would have homered.
He let Montero face Miller, he let Heyward bat in the 9th, and he didn't intentionally BB Davis with Miller on deck (enabling the wild pitch that moved Davis to 3rd). Joe's lack of urgency about anything really fucking blows.
Quote from: SKO on October 28, 2016, 10:49:30 PM
He let Montero face Miller, he let Heyward bat in the 9th, and he didn't intentionally BB Davis with Miller on deck (enabling the wild pitch that moved Davis to 3rd). Joe's lack of urgency about anything really fucking blows.
Not bunting with Zobrist in the 9th may have been the worst move of them all. I know Zobrist has been swinging well, but you HAVE to get that runner to second base.
Quote from: SKO on October 28, 2016, 10:49:30 PM
He let Montero face Miller, he let Heyward bat in the 9th, and he didn't intentionally BB Davis with Miller on deck (enabling the wild pitch that moved Davis to 3rd). Joe's lack of urgency about anything really fucking blows.
Who was supposed to hit for Heyward? The bench was basically empty by that point.
Quote from: Eli on October 28, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 28, 2016, 10:49:30 PM
He let Montero face Miller, he let Heyward bat in the 9th, and he didn't intentionally BB Davis with Miller on deck (enabling the wild pitch that moved Davis to 3rd). Joe's lack of urgency about anything really fucking blows.
Who was supposed to hit for Heyward? The bench was basically empty by that point.
Still had Almora and Ross (Well, Travis Wood also I guess). I like Ross the best out of those options, but it isn't exactly an open and shut case to pinch hit for Heyward there.
Quote from: Eli on October 28, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 28, 2016, 10:49:30 PM
He let Montero face Miller, he let Heyward bat in the 9th, and he didn't intentionally BB Davis with Miller on deck (enabling the wild pitch that moved Davis to 3rd). Joe's lack of urgency about anything really fucking blows.
Who was supposed to hit for Heyward? The bench was basically empty by that point.
Literally anyone who even slightly resembles a major league hitter. Almora, Ross. Wood. Arrieta. Anyone who isn't 7 for their last 54 and coming off a season where they hit like Alexei Ramirez' shriveled corpse.
Quote from: SKO on October 28, 2016, 11:35:49 PM
Quote from: Eli on October 28, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 28, 2016, 10:49:30 PM
He let Montero face Miller, he let Heyward bat in the 9th, and he didn't intentionally BB Davis with Miller on deck (enabling the wild pitch that moved Davis to 3rd). Joe's lack of urgency about anything really fucking blows.
Who was supposed to hit for Heyward? The bench was basically empty by that point.
Literally anyone who even slightly resembles a major league hitter. Almora, Ross. Wood. Arrieta. Anyone who isn't 7 for their last 54 and coming off a season where they hit like Alexei Ramirez' shriveled corpse.
Only one of the guys you mentioned even slightly resembles a major league hitter and against right-handers, even that's debatable.
EDIT: If you want to quibble with Maddon there, it should be for unnecessarily pinch-running for Rizzo with Coghlan while knowing Heyward was due up. Is Coghlan even faster that Rizzo?
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
Oh, come the fuck on. There is no way he makes it home even if he came out of the box 2 seconds before he hit the ball, you fucking idiot.
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:52:19 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
Oh, come the fuck on. There is no way he makes it home even if he came out of the box 2 seconds before he hit the ball, you fucking idiot.
But Joe Buck said he had a shot, and who knows more than Joe Buck?
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:52:19 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
Oh, come the fuck on. There is no way he makes it home even if he came out of the box 2 seconds before he hit the ball, you fucking idiot.
I feel kind of guilty. Last night I was frustrated and tired when I called you a fucking idiot. I should have called you a fucking imbecile, but the words just weren't coming.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
No. Hell no. How much difference do you think it makes to jog for 30 feet instead of sprint? He didn't have a chance at scoring.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
Quote from: ChuckD on October 29, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
And easily read as borderline racist, what with accusing the black player of not hustling.
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 29, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
And easily read as borderline racist, what with accusing the black player of not hustling.
What I don't understand is why he wrote "Gutless". "Clueless", maybe? Frustrating? Of course. If he had gotten to third earlier who knows what might have happened on the throw? But it didn't show a lack of courage. However, I agree with him that Soler is expendable.
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 29, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
And easily read as borderline racist, what with accusing the black player of not hustling.
What I don't understand is why he wrote "Gutless". "Clueless", maybe? Frustrating? Of course. If he had gotten to third earlier who knows what might have happened on the throw? But it didn't show a lack of courage. However, I agree with him that Soler is expendable.
Honestly, had he hustled the whole way through, people would've been pissed that he got gunned down easily at the plate instead of settling for a triple.
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 29, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
And easily read as borderline racist, what with accusing the black player of not hustling.
What I don't understand is why he wrote "Gutless". "Clueless", maybe? Frustrating? Of course. If he had gotten to third earlier who knows what might have happened on the throw? But it didn't show a lack of courage. However, I agree with him that Soler is expendable.
Honestly, had he hustled the whole way through, people would've been pissed that he got gunned down easily at the plate instead of settling for a triple.
See? "Gunned down easily at the plate." You are thinking like a Cub fan.
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 29, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
And easily read as borderline racist, what with accusing the black player of not hustling.
What I don't understand is why he wrote "Gutless". "Clueless", maybe? Frustrating? Of course. If he had gotten to third earlier who knows what might have happened on the throw? But it didn't show a lack of courage. However, I agree with him that Soler is expendable.
Honestly, had he hustled the whole way through, people would've been pissed that he got gunned down easily at the plate instead of settling for a triple.
See? "Gunned down easily at the plate." You are thinking like a Cub fan.
No. I'm thinking like someone with a rudimentary knowledge of Newtonian physics.
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:57:14 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 29, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
And easily read as borderline racist, what with accusing the black player of not hustling.
What I don't understand is why he wrote "Gutless". "Clueless", maybe? Frustrating? Of course. If he had gotten to third earlier who knows what might have happened on the throw? But it didn't show a lack of courage. However, I agree with him that Soler is expendable.
Honestly, had he hustled the whole way through, people would've been pissed that he got gunned down easily at the plate instead of settling for a triple.
See? "Gunned down easily at the plate." You are thinking like a Cub fan.
No. I'm thinking like someone with a rudimentary knowledge of Newtonian physics.
Who did this guy Newton play for?
Heyward batting seventh. Maybe the Indians will make errors on everything he hits!
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 29, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
And easily read as borderline racist, what with accusing the black player of not hustling.
What I don't understand is why he wrote "Gutless". "Clueless", maybe? Frustrating? Of course. If he had gotten to third earlier who knows what might have happened on the throw? But it didn't show a lack of courage. However, I agree with him that Soler is expendable.
Honestly, had he hustled the whole way through, people would've been pissed that he got gunned down easily at the plate instead of settling for a triple.
See? "Gunned down easily at the plate." You are thinking like a Cub fan.
No, I was thinking like a Cubs fan in that I'm sure that Soler would have blown out a hamstring rounding 3rd base through a stop sign and been tagged out while laying on the ground.
Joe Sheehan:
Quote
(The final batter of the night was Javier Baez, who was worked into the ground by Allen in a five-pitch at-bat in which Allen got swinging strikes on consecutive pitches low and outside and high and inside. It was an awful match-up for Baez, but the Cubs were out of left-handed batters, in part because one of them was standing on third base. Using Coghlan to run for Rizzo gained maybe fractions of a run, while costing the Cubs much more by forcing Baez to hit off Allen, rather than Coghlan. I keep coming back to this: Maddon is a good manager on the whole, but he's not a particularly good tactical manager. Burning Coghlan as a pinch-runner rather than saving him to hit for Baez was the biggest managerial mistake of the Series so far.)
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 29, 2016, 03:04:53 PM
Joe Sheehan:
Quote
(The final batter of the night was Javier Baez, who was worked into the ground by Allen in a five-pitch at-bat in which Allen got swinging strikes on consecutive pitches low and outside and high and inside. It was an awful match-up for Baez, but the Cubs were out of left-handed batters, in part because one of them was standing on third base. Using Coghlan to run for Rizzo gained maybe fractions of a run, while costing the Cubs much more by forcing Baez to hit off Allen, rather than Coghlan. I keep coming back to this: Maddon is a good manager on the whole, but he's not a particularly good tactical manager. Burning Coghlan as a pinch-runner rather than saving him to hit for Baez was the biggest managerial mistake of the Series so far.)
Unsaid in this is that if Chris Coghlan is the best option, the game is already over.
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:57:14 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: CBStew on October 29, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Bort on October 29, 2016, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on October 29, 2016, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 12:16:11 AM
For as bad as Heyward is...Soler dogging it out of the box cost him 90 feet and tying the game. And for that lack of effort, this guy can get shipped wherever in the offseason, and I seriously won't give a fuck. Gutless.
This is a dumb opinion.
And easily read as borderline racist, what with accusing the black player of not hustling.
What I don't understand is why he wrote "Gutless". "Clueless", maybe? Frustrating? Of course. If he had gotten to third earlier who knows what might have happened on the throw? But it didn't show a lack of courage. However, I agree with him that Soler is expendable.
Honestly, had he hustled the whole way through, people would've been pissed that he got gunned down easily at the plate instead of settling for a triple.
See? "Gunned down easily at the plate." You are thinking like a Cub fan.
No. I'm thinking like someone with a rudimentary knowledge of Newtonian physics.
"In other words (http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_19.html), the laws of Newton could be stated not in the form
F =
ma but in the form: the average kinetic energy less the average potential energy is as little as possible for the path of an object going from one point to another." Hamiltonian? Friction term? Oldsmobile?
Oh, wait, is this bitching about failure to achieve an inside-the-park HR? I've been clawing my way through the perceived world lately.
Pitching Lackey was easily the worst decision of Maddon's managerial career. If they go to Kluber, you have to go to Lester, especially down a game. Period.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 08:07:10 PM
Pitching Lackey was easily the worst decision of Maddon's managerial career. If they go to Kluber, you have to go to Lester, especially down a game. Period.
Okay.
Why in the fucking fuck did Lackey bat for himself. Fuck off, Joe. It's not fucking May.
Quote from: SKO on October 29, 2016, 08:21:20 PM
Why in the fucking fuck did Lackey bat for himself. Fuck off, Joe. It's not fucking May.
He's been bad all series. And most of the playoffs, really.
Quote from: SKO on October 29, 2016, 08:21:20 PM
Why in the fucking fuck did Lackey bat for himself. Fuck off, Joe. It's not fucking May.
And why was his AB so, so much worse than Kluber's? Oh, that's right. One is a shitty pitcher, and one is an ace.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 29, 2016, 08:31:21 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 29, 2016, 08:21:20 PM
Why in the fucking fuck did Lackey bat for himself. Fuck off, Joe. It's not fucking May.
And why was his AB so, so much worse than Kluber's? Oh, that's right. One is a shitty pitcher, and one is an ace.
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png)
After a useless MLB push notification ("Indians want another Cleveland parade" ... well good for fuckin' them) I got a more useful one. Joe is shaking up the lineup. It's ... interesting? I don't know? Just hit.
CF Fowler
DH Schwarber
3B Bryant
1B Rizzo
LF Zobrist
...
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Quote from: Yeti on November 01, 2016, 10:26:31 PM
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Yup. Chapman's pitches in the 9th were mostly topping out at 98. Hope he's rested and ready to go tomorrow.
That move was fucking stupid Maddon, should've let Kyle go one more batter...
TERRIBLE job managing tonight...weak ass grounder to get a guy on with 2 outs and yanks Lester for Chapman to come in with runners on...
Go to hell, Joe
Quote from: SKO on November 02, 2016, 10:21:56 PM
Go to hell, Joe
Go to the unemployment line. Don't pass Go. Don't collect $200.
And a squeeze attempt with 2 strikes. Fucking asshole
Wow. Just wow
Please stop fucking this up for us, Joe. What is wrong with you?
But wait! He's giving the top of the Cleveland offense a chance to hit against his gassed closer.
I know it seems like a meatball overreaction but if they lose this I would want him fired. I don't think I could ever look at him and not think of how he cost them a series amd I'd have zero faith in him in future postseasons
Quote from: SKO on November 02, 2016, 11:06:24 PM
I know it seems like a meatball overreaction but if they lose this I would want him fired. I don't think I could ever look at him and not think of how he cost them a series amd I'd have zero faith in him in future postseasons
Maybe he just wanted it to be more dramatic when they won.
Next time, please trust Kyle longer.
Then trust Jon longer.
And fuck Aroldis Chapman always and forever.
Maddon was just trying to make the 2016 title as difficult as possible to get the team ready for 2017.
Quote from: SKO on November 02, 2016, 11:06:24 PM
I know it seems like a meatball overreaction
Not deep down.
Every move he made got us here. He's the greatest Cub manager since Frank Chance.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 03, 2016, 01:26:06 AM
Every move he made got us here. He's the greatest Cub manager since Frank Chance.
Quote from: SKO on November 02, 2016, 10:43:24 PM
And a squeeze attempt with 2 strikes. Fucking asshole
Suck on that championship ring.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 03, 2016, 01:26:06 AM
Every move he made got us here. He's the greatest Cub manager since Frank Chance.
Same for the front office. I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't thrilled when the Cubs signed Zobrist -- I felt he was taking a spot from Javy, who I believed should've been the starting second baseman. But the Cubs aren't here without Zobrist. Everybody played a part; they made a true team effort. I think I'm going to go the Blind Faith route for a while.
And, man. How about a repeat?
It's possible to appreciate everything Joe did to help them get there while also acknowledging his in-game decisions during the World Series made their task more difficult. I still like him but some of those moves were just objectively bad whether they eventually won or not. He's smart, he'll adjust.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on November 03, 2016, 08:26:31 AM
It's possible to appreciate everything Joe did to help them get there while also acknowledging his in-game decisions during the World Series made their task more difficult. I still like him but some of those moves were just objectively bad whether they eventually won or not. He's smart, he'll adjust.
Yeah nuance is possible. I agree with Andy and Fork that this team doesn't come back from 3-1 and doesn't keep it together after the Chapman dinger without the way Joe has managed the attitudes and atmosphere of the clubhouse for two years. He also made some terrible decisions that would have haunted all of us forever if they'd lost. On the other hand I think Joe would have been saved from overthinking everything if random chance hadn't injured Rondon and Strop right before the goddamn playoffs. If he'd had more relievers he could trust it all plays out differently. Anyway, none of that shit ended up mattering, and today's not the day to rehash it. I . Go Cubs. Go Joe.
Quote from: SKO on November 03, 2016, 08:35:18 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on November 03, 2016, 08:26:31 AM
It's possible to appreciate everything Joe did to help them get there while also acknowledging his in-game decisions during the World Series made their task more difficult. I still like him but some of those moves were just objectively bad whether they eventually won or not. He's smart, he'll adjust.
Yeah nuance is possible. I agree with Andy and Fork that this team doesn't come back from 3-1 and doesn't keep it together after the Chapman dinger without the way Joe has managed the attitudes and atmosphere of the clubhouse for two years. He also made some terrible decisions that would have haunted all of us forever if they'd lost. On the other hand I think Joe would have been saved from overthinking everything if random chance hadn't injured Rondon and Strop right before the goddamn playoffs. If he'd had more relievers he could trust it all plays out differently. Anyway, none of that shit ended up mattering, and today's not the day to rehash it. I . Go Cubs. Go Joe.
He's a great manager. Not a perfect one.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 03, 2016, 09:31:50 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 03, 2016, 08:35:18 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on November 03, 2016, 08:26:31 AM
It's possible to appreciate everything Joe did to help them get there while also acknowledging his in-game decisions during the World Series made their task more difficult. I still like him but some of those moves were just objectively bad whether they eventually won or not. He's smart, he'll adjust.
Yeah nuance is possible. I agree with Andy and Fork that this team doesn't come back from 3-1 and doesn't keep it together after the Chapman dinger without the way Joe has managed the attitudes and atmosphere of the clubhouse for two years. He also made some terrible decisions that would have haunted all of us forever if they'd lost. On the other hand I think Joe would have been saved from overthinking everything if random chance hadn't injured Rondon and Strop right before the goddamn playoffs. If he'd had more relievers he could trust it all plays out differently. Anyway, none of that shit ended up mattering, and today's not the day to rehash it. I . Go Cubs. Go Joe.
He's a great manager. Not a perfect one.
The crazy thing is that almost all of his bullshit decisions actually worked out. You'd think that, law of averages and all, some of them would've ended with very different results.
Quote from: Canadouche on November 03, 2016, 09:41:37 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 03, 2016, 09:31:50 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 03, 2016, 08:35:18 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on November 03, 2016, 08:26:31 AM
It's possible to appreciate everything Joe did to help them get there while also acknowledging his in-game decisions during the World Series made their task more difficult. I still like him but some of those moves were just objectively bad whether they eventually won or not. He's smart, he'll adjust.
Yeah nuance is possible. I agree with Andy and Fork that this team doesn't come back from 3-1 and doesn't keep it together after the Chapman dinger without the way Joe has managed the attitudes and atmosphere of the clubhouse for two years. He also made some terrible decisions that would have haunted all of us forever if they'd lost. On the other hand I think Joe would have been saved from overthinking everything if random chance hadn't injured Rondon and Strop right before the goddamn playoffs. If he'd had more relievers he could trust it all plays out differently. Anyway, none of that shit ended up mattering, and today's not the day to rehash it. I . Go Cubs. Go Joe.
He's a great manager. Not a perfect one.
The crazy thing is that almost all of his bullshit decisions actually worked out. You'd think that, law of averages and all, some of them would've ended with very different results.
It is hard for me to decide if they won because of him or in spite of him. We all had our "What in hell are you doing?" moments. Taking Hendricks out? Using Lester against switch hitters or proficient bunters? Having Baez bunt with the bases loaded and one out, on a two strike count? But that's why he is the manager and we aren't.
Contreras is batting leadoff tonight.
Fuck it Joe, let's roll.
Batting Caratini 5th is dumb. Not pinch hitting for him w a left handed catcher and Schwarber both available against a closer who murders RHB and struggles vs LHB is incredibly stupid
Quote from: SKO on August 15, 2017, 09:44:35 PMBatting Caratini 5th is dumb. Not pinch hitting for him w a left handed catcher and Schwarber both available against a closer who murders RHB and struggles vs LHB is incredibly stupid
I agree that they should've pinch hit for him, but you realize Caratini is a switch hitter right?
Quote from: R-V on August 16, 2017, 07:34:01 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 15, 2017, 09:44:35 PMBatting Caratini 5th is dumb. Not pinch hitting for him w a left handed catcher and Schwarber both available against a closer who murders RHB and struggles vs LHB is incredibly stupid
I agree that they should've pinch hit for him, but you realize Caratini is a switch hitter right?
Weird. I had known that at one point but my At Bat app showed Caratini batting right handed that entire time. Either way, batting him 5th and letting him hit there was dumb.
Quote from: SKO on August 15, 2017, 09:44:35 PM
Batting Caratini 5th is dumb. Not pinch hitting for him w a left handed catcher and Schwarber both available against a closer who murders RHB and struggles vs LHB is incredibly stupid
I know it's sorta your thing to lament every loss, but in any event I don't necessarily even agree here. That was a high-leverage at-bat against a shit-bird team and presumably a shit-bird Red starter that based on his minor league #'s Caratini could reasonably be expected to hit--it wouldn't be Vic's first "clutch" hit as he hit a go-ahead HR late in the rubber match game vs. Milwaukee before being sent down. Further, I imagine a hit would have given a boost Caratini's legitimacy (bear in mind, that there could be an open bench spot even after you count LaStella...more on this later). This is not even getting into how Schwarber--whom I love and adore and can't wait until he finally shoves it up the ass of a loud, ungrateful and petulant portion of the fanbase (glares at Chuck)--just had, so recently, a series of horrific at-bats in the desert. I know this may have begun to subside with him reaching base 4 times Monday on 2 BB's and 2 HBP's but regardless he was not in the starting lineup last night and to throw him up in that situation for his 1 at-bat and expect him to hit another grand slam like he surprisingly did vs. the Cardinals at the beginning of summer or just single or whatever...I just don't know what the upside is other than maybe winning this 1 game, at least compared with the myriad outcomes--both good and bad--that comes from Caratini batting there--I mean it goes without saying but there's no guarantee Schwarber has a better AB. I mean, yeah, try to win, but you're playing a team that you're going to mostly otherwise be spending the next 10 days spanking and if this is one of the games you lose, I've seen worse. Does Schwarber deliver a single there and help the Cubs win this 1 game? Maybe, sure. But he could also whiff on 3 pitches, be done for the game, and Caratini doesn't get the experience of that at-bat. And you still lose.
As it was, the Schwarber at-bat that he
did have in the 9th was very good to see, and may pay off more for him and the team in the long run. It was not as crucial of a game situation leading off the 9th down 2, but he still needed a quality AB against a good reliever, which he delivered by facing 8 pitches and lining a clean-as-fuck single to right. Thanks in part to his at-bat to start the inning, Iglesias could be rendered unavailable (or limited) today.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:06:38 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 15, 2017, 09:44:35 PM
Batting Caratini 5th is dumb. Not pinch hitting for him w a left handed catcher and Schwarber both available against a closer who murders RHB and struggles vs LHB is incredibly stupid
I know it's sorta your thing to lament every loss, but in any event I don't necessarily even agree here. That was a high-leverage at-bat against a shit-bird team and presumably a shit-bird Red starter that based on his minor league #'s Caratini could reasonably be expected to hit--it wouldn't be Vic's first "clutch" hit as he hit a go-ahead HR late in the rubber match game vs. Milwaukee before being sent down. Further, I imagine a hit would have given a boost Caratini's legitimacy (bear in mind, that there could be an open bench spot even after you count LaStella...more on this later). This is not even getting into how Schwarber--whom I love and adore and can't wait until he finally shoves it up the ass of a loud, ungrateful and petulant portion of the fanbase (glares at Chuck)--just had, so recently, a series of horrific at-bats in the desert. I know this may have begun to subside with him reaching base 4 times Monday on 2 BB's and 2 HBP's but regardless he was not in the starting lineup last night and to throw him up in that situation for his 1 at-bat and expect him to hit another grand slam like his surprisingly did vs. the Cardinals at the beginning of summer or just single or whatever...I just don't know what the upside is other than maybe winning this 1 game, at least compared with the myriad outcomes--both good and bad--that came from Caratini batting there--I mean it goes without saying but there's no guarantee Schwarber has a better AB. I mean, yeah, try to win, but you're playing team that you're going to mostly otherwise be spending the next 10 days spanking and if this is one of the games you lose, I've seen worse. Does Schwarber deliver a single there and help the Cubs win this 1 game? Maybe, sure. But he could also whiff on 3 pitches, be done for the game, and Caratini doesn't get the experience of that at-bat.
As it was, the Schwarber at-bat that he did have in the 9th was very good to see, and may pay off more for him and the team in the long run. It was not as crucial of a game situation leading off the 9th down 2, but he still needed a quality AB against a good reliever, which he delivered by facing 8 pitches and lining a clean-as-fuck single to right. Thanks in part to his at-bat to start the inning, Iglesias could be rendered unavailable (or limited) today.
It was not a shit-bird starter Caratini could be expected to hit. It was their very good closer with a sub 2.00 ERA who again, is vulnerable only to lefties and death to righties (and Caratini despite being a switch hitter is a stronger hitter from the right hand side based on his MILB stats). If you're going to write a 1000 word reply to my post, could you at least read the part where I noted that Caratini was facing the closer and noted that closer's dramatic splits before instead writing about a fictional matchup between Caratini and some strawman Reds starter that didn't happen?
Schwarber ended up facing the same closer in the next inning and singled to lead off, as you noted. It was one AB in a clutch situation where a hit probably delivers a win in a pennant race they lead by only 1.5 games. The time for prioritizing a young dude's confidence over winning games is gone, and even if it weren't Caratini is org filler. He's just a guy. This isn't letting Schwarber, a foundational piece, figure it out against MLB pitching because you need him, it's losing a game because you let the next George Kottaras take a key AB. It was the wrong call.
And considering this is the first time I've bumped this thread all year I'm hardly "lamenting every loss". Joe fucked up. It's okay to admit it.
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:06:38 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 15, 2017, 09:44:35 PM
Batting Caratini 5th is dumb. Not pinch hitting for him w a left handed catcher and Schwarber both available against a closer who murders RHB and struggles vs LHB is incredibly stupid
I know it's sorta your thing to lament every loss, but in any event I don't necessarily even agree here. That was a high-leverage at-bat against a shit-bird team and presumably a shit-bird Red starter that based on his minor league #'s Caratini could reasonably be expected to hit--it wouldn't be Vic's first "clutch" hit as he hit a go-ahead HR late in the rubber match game vs. Milwaukee before being sent down. Further, I imagine a hit would have given a boost Caratini's legitimacy (bear in mind, that there could be an open bench spot even after you count LaStella...more on this later). This is not even getting into how Schwarber--whom I love and adore and can't wait until he finally shoves it up the ass of a loud, ungrateful and petulant portion of the fanbase (glares at Chuck)--just had, so recently, a series of horrific at-bats in the desert. I know this may have begun to subside with him reaching base 4 times Monday on 2 BB's and 2 HBP's but regardless he was not in the starting lineup last night and to throw him up in that situation for his 1 at-bat and expect him to hit another grand slam like his surprisingly did vs. the Cardinals at the beginning of summer or just single or whatever...I just don't know what the upside is other than maybe winning this 1 game, at least compared with the myriad outcomes--both good and bad--that came from Caratini batting there--I mean it goes without saying but there's no guarantee Schwarber has a better AB. I mean, yeah, try to win, but you're playing team that you're going to mostly otherwise be spending the next 10 days spanking and if this is one of the games you lose, I've seen worse. Does Schwarber deliver a single there and help the Cubs win this 1 game? Maybe, sure. But he could also whiff on 3 pitches, be done for the game, and Caratini doesn't get the experience of that at-bat.
As it was, the Schwarber at-bat that he did have in the 9th was very good to see, and may pay off more for him and the team in the long run. It was not as crucial of a game situation leading off the 9th down 2, but he still needed a quality AB against a good reliever, which he delivered by facing 8 pitches and lining a clean-as-fuck single to right. Thanks in part to his at-bat to start the inning, Iglesias could be rendered unavailable (or limited) today.
It was not a shit-bird starter Caratini could be expected to hit. It was their very good closer with a sub 2.00 ERA who again, is vulnerable only to lefties and death to righties (and Caratini despite being a switch hitter is a stronger hitter from the right hand side based on his MILB stats). If you're going to write a 1000 word reply to my post, could you at least read the part where I noted that Caratini was facing the closer and noted that closer's dramatic splits before instead writing about a fictional matchup between Caratini and some strawman Reds starter that didn't happen?
Schwarber ended up facing the same closer in the next inning and singled to lead off, as you noted. It was one AB in a clutch situation where a hit probably delivers a win in a pennant race they lead by only 1.5 games. The time for prioritizing a young dude's confidence over winning games is gone, and even if it weren't Caratini is org filler. He's just a guy. This isn't letting Schwarber, a foundational piece, figure it out against MLB pitching because you need him, it's losing a game because you let the next George Kottaras take a key AB. It was the wrong call.
And considering this is the first time I've bumped this thread all year I'm hardly "lamenting every loss". Joe fucked up. It's okay to admit it.
Oh.
I was at the game and had a few drinks. Guess I should PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION, amirite.
Nevertheless I stand by my assertion that letting Caratini bat is no big deal. Also, there's no need to bump this thread after Maddon mystifyingly gambled everything late in the World Series with some weird and stupid shit.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:24:50 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:06:38 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 15, 2017, 09:44:35 PM
Batting Caratini 5th is dumb. Not pinch hitting for him w a left handed catcher and Schwarber both available against a closer who murders RHB and struggles vs LHB is incredibly stupid
I know it's sorta your thing to lament every loss, but in any event I don't necessarily even agree here. That was a high-leverage at-bat against a shit-bird team and presumably a shit-bird Red starter that based on his minor league #'s Caratini could reasonably be expected to hit--it wouldn't be Vic's first "clutch" hit as he hit a go-ahead HR late in the rubber match game vs. Milwaukee before being sent down. Further, I imagine a hit would have given a boost Caratini's legitimacy (bear in mind, that there could be an open bench spot even after you count LaStella...more on this later). This is not even getting into how Schwarber--whom I love and adore and can't wait until he finally shoves it up the ass of a loud, ungrateful and petulant portion of the fanbase (glares at Chuck)--just had, so recently, a series of horrific at-bats in the desert. I know this may have begun to subside with him reaching base 4 times Monday on 2 BB's and 2 HBP's but regardless he was not in the starting lineup last night and to throw him up in that situation for his 1 at-bat and expect him to hit another grand slam like his surprisingly did vs. the Cardinals at the beginning of summer or just single or whatever...I just don't know what the upside is other than maybe winning this 1 game, at least compared with the myriad outcomes--both good and bad--that came from Caratini batting there--I mean it goes without saying but there's no guarantee Schwarber has a better AB. I mean, yeah, try to win, but you're playing team that you're going to mostly otherwise be spending the next 10 days spanking and if this is one of the games you lose, I've seen worse. Does Schwarber deliver a single there and help the Cubs win this 1 game? Maybe, sure. But he could also whiff on 3 pitches, be done for the game, and Caratini doesn't get the experience of that at-bat.
As it was, the Schwarber at-bat that he did have in the 9th was very good to see, and may pay off more for him and the team in the long run. It was not as crucial of a game situation leading off the 9th down 2, but he still needed a quality AB against a good reliever, which he delivered by facing 8 pitches and lining a clean-as-fuck single to right. Thanks in part to his at-bat to start the inning, Iglesias could be rendered unavailable (or limited) today.
It was not a shit-bird starter Caratini could be expected to hit. It was their very good closer with a sub 2.00 ERA who again, is vulnerable only to lefties and death to righties (and Caratini despite being a switch hitter is a stronger hitter from the right hand side based on his MILB stats). If you're going to write a 1000 word reply to my post, could you at least read the part where I noted that Caratini was facing the closer and noted that closer's dramatic splits before instead writing about a fictional matchup between Caratini and some strawman Reds starter that didn't happen?
Schwarber ended up facing the same closer in the next inning and singled to lead off, as you noted. It was one AB in a clutch situation where a hit probably delivers a win in a pennant race they lead by only 1.5 games. The time for prioritizing a young dude's confidence over winning games is gone, and even if it weren't Caratini is org filler. He's just a guy. This isn't letting Schwarber, a foundational piece, figure it out against MLB pitching because you need him, it's losing a game because you let the next George Kottaras take a key AB. It was the wrong call.
And considering this is the first time I've bumped this thread all year I'm hardly "lamenting every loss". Joe fucked up. It's okay to admit it.
Oh.
I was at the game and had a few drinks. Guess I should PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION, amirite.
Nevertheless I stand by my assertion that letting Caratini bat is no big deal. Also, there's no need to bump this thread after Maddon mystifyingly gambled everything late in the World Series with some weird and stupid shit.
Hoisted on your own panktard.
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:28:17 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:24:50 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:06:38 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 15, 2017, 09:44:35 PM
Batting Caratini 5th is dumb. Not pinch hitting for him w a left handed catcher and Schwarber both available against a closer who murders RHB and struggles vs LHB is incredibly stupid
I know it's sorta your thing to lament every loss, but in any event I don't necessarily even agree here. That was a high-leverage at-bat against a shit-bird team and presumably a shit-bird Red starter that based on his minor league #'s Caratini could reasonably be expected to hit--it wouldn't be Vic's first "clutch" hit as he hit a go-ahead HR late in the rubber match game vs. Milwaukee before being sent down. Further, I imagine a hit would have given a boost Caratini's legitimacy (bear in mind, that there could be an open bench spot even after you count LaStella...more on this later). This is not even getting into how Schwarber--whom I love and adore and can't wait until he finally shoves it up the ass of a loud, ungrateful and petulant portion of the fanbase (glares at Chuck)--just had, so recently, a series of horrific at-bats in the desert. I know this may have begun to subside with him reaching base 4 times Monday on 2 BB's and 2 HBP's but regardless he was not in the starting lineup last night and to throw him up in that situation for his 1 at-bat and expect him to hit another grand slam like his surprisingly did vs. the Cardinals at the beginning of summer or just single or whatever...I just don't know what the upside is other than maybe winning this 1 game, at least compared with the myriad outcomes--both good and bad--that came from Caratini batting there--I mean it goes without saying but there's no guarantee Schwarber has a better AB. I mean, yeah, try to win, but you're playing team that you're going to mostly otherwise be spending the next 10 days spanking and if this is one of the games you lose, I've seen worse. Does Schwarber deliver a single there and help the Cubs win this 1 game? Maybe, sure. But he could also whiff on 3 pitches, be done for the game, and Caratini doesn't get the experience of that at-bat.
As it was, the Schwarber at-bat that he did have in the 9th was very good to see, and may pay off more for him and the team in the long run. It was not as crucial of a game situation leading off the 9th down 2, but he still needed a quality AB against a good reliever, which he delivered by facing 8 pitches and lining a clean-as-fuck single to right. Thanks in part to his at-bat to start the inning, Iglesias could be rendered unavailable (or limited) today.
It was not a shit-bird starter Caratini could be expected to hit. It was their very good closer with a sub 2.00 ERA who again, is vulnerable only to lefties and death to righties (and Caratini despite being a switch hitter is a stronger hitter from the right hand side based on his MILB stats). If you're going to write a 1000 word reply to my post, could you at least read the part where I noted that Caratini was facing the closer and noted that closer's dramatic splits before instead writing about a fictional matchup between Caratini and some strawman Reds starter that didn't happen?
Schwarber ended up facing the same closer in the next inning and singled to lead off, as you noted. It was one AB in a clutch situation where a hit probably delivers a win in a pennant race they lead by only 1.5 games. The time for prioritizing a young dude's confidence over winning games is gone, and even if it weren't Caratini is org filler. He's just a guy. This isn't letting Schwarber, a foundational piece, figure it out against MLB pitching because you need him, it's losing a game because you let the next George Kottaras take a key AB. It was the wrong call.
And considering this is the first time I've bumped this thread all year I'm hardly "lamenting every loss". Joe fucked up. It's okay to admit it.
Oh.
I was at the game and had a few drinks. Guess I should PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION, amirite.
Nevertheless I stand by my assertion that letting Caratini bat is no big deal. Also, there's no need to bump this thread after Maddon mystifyingly gambled everything late in the World Series with some weird and stupid shit.
Hoisted on your own panktard.
Since we're doing an autopsy on Joe's management of the game can I ask if it was his decision to have Baez but in the 9th or did Baez do that by hisself?
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:30:06 AM
Since we're doing an autopsy on Joe's management of the game can I ask if it was his decision to have Baez but in the 9th or did Baez do that by hisself?
He made the call but he said he was hoping Baez would actually be able to bunt for a hit. I was actually fine with that call, frankly, because Iglesias as I said is death to right handers usually and Javy was likely to swing himself out of his shoes, and Zobrist literally got a hit that should have tied the game (why did Gary Jones not send Heyward? It would have been close but Heyward is the best baserunner they have and even if he gets thrown out Zobrist still ends up in scoring position. He makes the weirdest decisions sometimes). I guess there's always the possibility Javy crushes a hanger and wins the game but the way I see it the bunt didn't hurt em.
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:30:06 AM
Since we're doing an autopsy on Joe's management of the game can I ask if it was his decision to have Baez but in the 9th or did Baez do that by hisself?
He made the call but he said he was hoping Baez would actually be able to bunt for a hit. I was actually fine with that call, frankly, because Iglesias as I said is death to right handers usually and Javy was likely to swing himself out of his shoes, and Zobrist literally got a hit that should have tied the game (why did Gary Jones not send Heyward? It would have been close but Heyward is the best baserunner they have and even if he gets thrown out Zobrist still ends up in scoring position. He makes the weirdest decisions sometimes). I guess there's always the possibility Javy crushes a hanger and wins the game but the way I see it the bunt didn't hurt em.
Though I have been proven to be too drunk/inattentive while in the physical presence of this game to remember that Caratin's AB was in the 8th, against Iglesias, I can assure you--for what sucha ssurances may be worth-- that Heyward hadn't even stepped on third when the right-fielder fielded the ball and the latter's throw was a strike to home and Heyward would have been out by 35 feet.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:48:16 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:30:06 AM
Since we're doing an autopsy on Joe's management of the game can I ask if it was his decision to have Baez but in the 9th or did Baez do that by hisself?
He made the call but he said he was hoping Baez would actually be able to bunt for a hit. I was actually fine with that call, frankly, because Iglesias as I said is death to right handers usually and Javy was likely to swing himself out of his shoes, and Zobrist literally got a hit that should have tied the game (why did Gary Jones not send Heyward? It would have been close but Heyward is the best baserunner they have and even if he gets thrown out Zobrist still ends up in scoring position. He makes the weirdest decisions sometimes). I guess there's always the possibility Javy crushes a hanger and wins the game but the way I see it the bunt didn't hurt em.
Though I have been proven to be too drunk/inattentive while in the physical presence of this game to remember that Caratin's AB was in the 8th, against Iglesias, I can assure you--for what sucha ssurances may be worth-- that Heyward hadn't even stepped on third when the right-fielder fielded the ball and the latter's throw was a strike to home and Heyward would have been out by 35 feet.
Fair enough. I was following on my phone and the clip I watched later doesn't really show Heyward's positioning very well, the way it was spliced it seemed to me that it would have been a bang/bang play in which case I usually would send Heyward since he's such a good baserunner and it takes a perfect play to get him.
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:48:16 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 16, 2017, 10:30:06 AM
Since we're doing an autopsy on Joe's management of the game can I ask if it was his decision to have Baez but in the 9th or did Baez do that by hisself?
He made the call but he said he was hoping Baez would actually be able to bunt for a hit. I was actually fine with that call, frankly, because Iglesias as I said is death to right handers usually and Javy was likely to swing himself out of his shoes, and Zobrist literally got a hit that should have tied the game (why did Gary Jones not send Heyward? It would have been close but Heyward is the best baserunner they have and even if he gets thrown out Zobrist still ends up in scoring position. He makes the weirdest decisions sometimes). I guess there's always the possibility Javy crushes a hanger and wins the game but the way I see it the bunt didn't hurt em.
Though I have been proven to be too drunk/inattentive while in the physical presence of this game to remember that Caratin's AB was in the 8th, against Iglesias, I can assure you--for what sucha ssurances may be worth-- that Heyward hadn't even stepped on third when the right-fielder fielded the ball and the latter's throw was a strike to home and Heyward would have been out by 35 feet.
Fair enough. I was following on my phone and the clip I watched later doesn't really show Heyward's positioning very well, the way it was spliced it seemed to me that it would have been a bang/bang play in which case I usually would send Heyward since he's such a good baserunner and it takes a perfect play to get him.
If you're looking for sources of frustration from the game you can also point to Zobrist hitting the ball as hard as he's fucking hit it in months--and in a situation where it was needed--but was so well-struck that the right-fielder had it in his glove after 1 hop and maybe 2.1 seconds after it left Zobrist's bat.
It's a minor point, but I don't think Hayward is the best baserunner they have. I think it's Bryant.
Zobrist should not be batting 3rd or 4th anymore, Joe.
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
Zobrist should not be batting 3rd or 4th anymore, Joe.
Love to hand a free out to a pitcher who threw 8 wide, giving up an AB by one of your best hitters in the process
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
Zobrist should not be batting 3rd or 4th anymore, Joe.
He's leaving him there like he left Jason Hayward at #2 almost all of last season, which totally worked!
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 22, 2017, 11:33:59 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
Zobrist should not be batting 3rd or 4th anymore, Joe.
He's leaving him there like he left Jason Hayward at #2 almost all of last season, which totally worked!
He did the same thing with Castro in 2015. The defense for Zobrist batting behind Rizzo is the same that he gave for the Castro thing, which is just "I like him in that spot."
That said Zobrist's had some better looking swings of late, so maybe he's getting better. I would prefer, y'know, batting him like 7th until he really starts producing, but if 2016 Zobrist comes back this'll all be fine.
Quote from: Belt Boy on August 23, 2017, 08:28:40 AM
That said Zobrist's had some better looking swings of late, so maybe he's getting better. I would prefer, y'know, batting him like 7th until he really starts producing, but if 2016 Zobrist comes back this'll all be fine.
I actually think I swaw the other day that Zobrist's wrist is finally not hurting, and he can put in his usual work for the first time all season. Couldn't have come at a better time.
Quote from: SKO on September 08, 2017, 09:43:33 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 08, 2017, 08:09:31 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:57:20 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
Zobrist should not be batting 3rd or 4th anymore, Joe.
Sadly true this game, but KB and Rizzo did nothing too, so...
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 08, 2017, 09:44:30 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 08, 2017, 09:43:33 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 08, 2017, 08:09:31 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:57:20 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
Zobrist should not be batting 3rd or 4th anymore, Joe.
Sadly true this game, but KB and Rizzo did nothing too, so...
Well other than when they got back to back hits and BENNY BENNY BENNY sat there and watched two goddamn fastballs right down the middle to leave them stranded, you mean?
Quote from: SKO on September 08, 2017, 10:05:12 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 08, 2017, 09:44:30 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 08, 2017, 09:43:33 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 08, 2017, 08:09:31 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:57:20 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 20, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
Zobrist should not be batting 3rd or 4th anymore, Joe.
Sadly true this game, but KB and Rizzo did nothing too, so...
Well other than when they got back to back hits and BENNY BENNY BENNY sat there and watched two goddamn fastballs right down the middle to leave them stranded, you mean?
I'm talking about the 8th.
Another day where Zobrist and Heyward are in the lineup and Schwarber isn't. Get bent, Joe
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Except even during his mini-slump this month Kyle has a .777 OPS, whereas Heyward has an OPS under .650 over the last two months. Not even his vaunted "defense" (which hasn't been as good this year as last year, per Fangraphs) can make up a gap like that. Schwarber should be starting, Heyward shouldn't.
Again, factoring in defense, baserunning, etc. there's literally nothing that makes Heyward a better player than Schwarber at this point. Heyward's been worth 0.8 fWAR this year, Kyle's been worth 1.0, and if you're comparing them in the second half it's not even close.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 11, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Honestly Schwarber hasn't had a bad season. He had a bad month. He hit .246/.378/.459 in his first 16 games, and he's hit .238/.335/.539 in his last 63. In between those two he had a 35 game stretch where he hit .121/.243/.290. He's not taken the next step like we hoped into being Babe Ruth yet, but outside of one putrid stretch in late April/May he's been basically the same dude he was as a rookie.
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 11, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Honestly Schwarber hasn't had a bad season. He had a bad month. He hit .246/.378/.459 in his first 16 games, and he's hit .238/.335/.539 in his last 63. In between those two he had a 35 game stretch where he hit .121/.243/.290. He's not taken the next step like we hoped into being Babe Ruth yet, but outside of one putrid stretch in late April/May he's been basically the same dude he was as a rookie.
Pitchers still fear him, which makes him formidable enough to have in the lineup.
That all said, I have 100 percent confidence in Joe Maddon that if he told me that I needed to drink a gallon of paint thinner because it would improve my life and/or the Cubs chances to win a ballgame, I'd only question him on which brand to drink. I don't think his "benching" of Schwarber is arbitrary; I wonder if the reason for it is one he doesn't care to share for competitive reasons. Either way, last year would have been the last season of Ricky Renteria's contract. I don't think he gets the Cubs to the playoffs during his tenure.
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 01:13:40 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 11, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Honestly Schwarber hasn't had a bad season. He had a bad month. He hit .246/.378/.459 in his first 16 games, and he's hit .238/.335/.539 in his last 63. In between those two he had a 35 game stretch where he hit .121/.243/.290. He's not taken the next step like we hoped into being Babe Ruth yet, but outside of one putrid stretch in late April/May he's been basically the same dude he was as a rookie.
Pitchers still fear him, which makes him formidable enough to have in the lineup.
That all said, I have 100 percent confidence in Joe Maddon that if he told me that I needed to drink a gallon of paint thinner because it would improve my life and/or the Cubs chances to win a ballgame, I'd only question him on which brand to drink. I don't think his "benching" of Schwarber is arbitrary; I wonder if the reason for it is one he doesn't care to share for competitive reasons. Either way, last year would have been the last season of Ricky Renteria's contract. I don't think he gets the Cubs to the playoffs during his tenure.
I don't want Joe Maddon fired. I think he's probably the best manager out there for this team. That said, I recently got a raise at work and a promotion and yet they also still give me feedback on things they'd like me to do better at each performance review. There's nuance here. Running Heyward out there every day is bad. There is no level of defense in right field that justifies hitting like Jonathan Herrera. Joe should stop being a stubborn ass and forget whatever fucking lesson he's trying to teach and put out the lineup that has the best chance of winning a baseball game. That lineup has Kyle Schwarber in it and not Jason Heyward.
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 11, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Honestly Schwarber hasn't had a bad season. He had a bad month. He hit .246/.378/.459 in his first 16 games, and he's hit .238/.335/.539 in his last 63. In between those two he had a 35 game stretch where he hit .121/.243/.290. He's not taken the next step like we hoped into being Babe Ruth yet, but outside of one putrid stretch in late April/May he's been basically the same dude he was as a rookie.
This is somewhat right. But he's also gone back off a cliff. His last 16 games are .196/.274/.482. That's worse than his start but for the HRs. It also is targeted appearances. I think he only has 4 PAs vs. lefties in that range. Not sure how many of the first 16 starts were against lefties.
Joe isn't playing him for a reason. Could be because he's hurt, could be because he's bad. I'm with TJ in that I don't think Schwarber sitting because Joe is just playing a hunch.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 01:41:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 11, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Honestly Schwarber hasn't had a bad season. He had a bad month. He hit .246/.378/.459 in his first 16 games, and he's hit .238/.335/.539 in his last 63. In between those two he had a 35 game stretch where he hit .121/.243/.290. He's not taken the next step like we hoped into being Babe Ruth yet, but outside of one putrid stretch in late April/May he's been basically the same dude he was as a rookie.
This is somewhat right. But he's also gone back off a cliff. His last 16 games are .196/.274/.482. That's worse than his start but for the HRs. It also is targeted appearances. I think he only has 4 PAs vs. lefties in that range. Not sure how many of the first 16 starts were against lefties.
Joe isn't playing him for a reason. Could be because he's hurt, could be because he's bad. I'm with TJ in that I don't think Schwarber sitting because Joe is just playing a hunch.
Aye, there's the rub. Those damn homers. Too bad those aren't
extremely fucking valuable
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:46:40 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 01:41:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 11, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Honestly Schwarber hasn't had a bad season. He had a bad month. He hit .246/.378/.459 in his first 16 games, and he's hit .238/.335/.539 in his last 63. In between those two he had a 35 game stretch where he hit .121/.243/.290. He's not taken the next step like we hoped into being Babe Ruth yet, but outside of one putrid stretch in late April/May he's been basically the same dude he was as a rookie.
This is somewhat right. But he's also gone back off a cliff. His last 16 games are .196/.274/.482. That's worse than his start but for the HRs. It also is targeted appearances. I think he only has 4 PAs vs. lefties in that range. Not sure how many of the first 16 starts were against lefties.
Joe isn't playing him for a reason. Could be because he's hurt, could be because he's bad. I'm with TJ in that I don't think Schwarber sitting because Joe is just playing a hunch.
Aye, there's the rub. Those damn homers. Too bad those aren't extremely fucking valuable
I guess you're right. Joe's an idiot.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 01:56:27 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:46:40 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 01:41:29 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 11, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Honestly Schwarber hasn't had a bad season. He had a bad month. He hit .246/.378/.459 in his first 16 games, and he's hit .238/.335/.539 in his last 63. In between those two he had a 35 game stretch where he hit .121/.243/.290. He's not taken the next step like we hoped into being Babe Ruth yet, but outside of one putrid stretch in late April/May he's been basically the same dude he was as a rookie.
This is somewhat right. But he's also gone back off a cliff. His last 16 games are .196/.274/.482. That's worse than his start but for the HRs. It also is targeted appearances. I think he only has 4 PAs vs. lefties in that range. Not sure how many of the first 16 starts were against lefties.
Joe isn't playing him for a reason. Could be because he's hurt, could be because he's bad. I'm with TJ in that I don't think Schwarber sitting because Joe is just playing a hunch.
Aye, there's the rub. Those damn homers. Too bad those aren't extremely fucking valuable
I guess you're right. Joe's an idiot.
Smart people can sometimes overthink their way into doing something stubborn and stupid, like convincing themselves that outfield defense is so valuable that it merits playing a guy with 5 XBH since August 1st.
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 01:13:40 PM
Either way, last year would have been the last season of Ricky Renteria's contract. I don't think he gets the Cubs to the playoffs during his tenure.
The Cubs won the division by 17.5 games last year. You really think Maddon is worth the equivalent of basically two Mike Trouts?
Quote from: Eli on September 11, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 01:13:40 PM
Either way, last year would have been the last season of Ricky Renteria's contract. I don't think he gets the Cubs to the playoffs during his tenure.
The Cubs won the division by 17.5 games last year. You really think Maddon is worth the equivalent of basically two Mike Trouts?
Won the 2nd WC spot in 2015 by 13 as well.
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:16:41 PM
I don't want Joe Maddon fired. I think he's probably the best manager out there for this team. That said, I recently got a raise at work and a promotion and yet they also still give me feedback on things they'd like me to do better at each performance review. There's nuance here. Running Heyward out there every day is bad. There is no level of defense in right field that justifies hitting like Jonathan Herrera. Joe should stop being a stubborn ass and forget whatever fucking lesson he's trying to teach and put out the lineup that has the best chance of winning a baseball game. That lineup has Kyle Schwarber in it and not Jason Heyward.
This weekend the Cubs were outscored 21-3. To you really think Schwarber had another 19 HR in him? I mean, I love the big lug, but I had him pegged for 15, max.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 04:16:37 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:16:41 PM
I don't want Joe Maddon fired. I think he's probably the best manager out there for this team. That said, I recently got a raise at work and a promotion and yet they also still give me feedback on things they'd like me to do better at each performance review. There's nuance here. Running Heyward out there every day is bad. There is no level of defense in right field that justifies hitting like Jonathan Herrera. Joe should stop being a stubborn ass and forget whatever fucking lesson he's trying to teach and put out the lineup that has the best chance of winning a baseball game. That lineup has Kyle Schwarber in it and not Jason Heyward.
This weekend the Cubs were outscored 21-3. To you really think Schwarber had another 19 HR in him? I mean, I love the big lug, but I had him pegged for 15, max.
He had 1 AB this weekend. He homered in that. If you extrapolate that over 5 ABs a game, that's 15 HR. Maybe not enough to win Saturday, but they'd have won Friday and Sunday.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 04:16:37 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:16:41 PM
I don't want Joe Maddon fired. I think he's probably the best manager out there for this team. That said, I recently got a raise at work and a promotion and yet they also still give me feedback on things they'd like me to do better at each performance review. There's nuance here. Running Heyward out there every day is bad. There is no level of defense in right field that justifies hitting like Jonathan Herrera. Joe should stop being a stubborn ass and forget whatever fucking lesson he's trying to teach and put out the lineup that has the best chance of winning a baseball game. That lineup has Kyle Schwarber in it and not Jason Heyward.
This weekend the Cubs were outscored 21-3. To you really think Schwarber had another 19 HR in him? I mean, I love the big lug, but I had him pegged for 15, max.
Saying "I disapprove of this manager making the consistently wrong lineup choice" is different than saying "they'd win if he did this." A manager only controls so much, but it's worrying how poorly he's handling the things he does control
Quote from: Eli on September 11, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 01:13:40 PM
Either way, last year would have been the last season of Ricky Renteria's contract. I don't think he gets the Cubs to the playoffs during his tenure.
The Cubs won the division by 17.5 games last year. You really think Maddon is worth the equivalent of basically two Mike Trouts?
I don't think Lester is here without Maddon. Obviously, neither is Ross. I don't think Renteria would be as good for Arrieta or Schwarber or Bryant making their debuts. I wonder if Castro bounces back like he does the last 6 weeks of the season. I doubt Hammel comes back.
Without Maddon, there is no Zobrist here, no Lackey, Fowler probably doesn't come back as a Free Agent, so yeah, playoffs are iffy.
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 04:16:37 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:16:41 PM
I don't want Joe Maddon fired. I think he's probably the best manager out there for this team. That said, I recently got a raise at work and a promotion and yet they also still give me feedback on things they'd like me to do better at each performance review. There's nuance here. Running Heyward out there every day is bad. There is no level of defense in right field that justifies hitting like Jonathan Herrera. Joe should stop being a stubborn ass and forget whatever fucking lesson he's trying to teach and put out the lineup that has the best chance of winning a baseball game. That lineup has Kyle Schwarber in it and not Jason Heyward.
This weekend the Cubs were outscored 21-3. To you really think Schwarber had another 19 HR in him? I mean, I love the big lug, but I had him pegged for 15, max.
Saying "I disapprove of this manager making the consistently wrong lineup choice" is different than saying "they'd win if he did this." A manager only controls so much, but it's worrying how poorly he's handling the things he does control
To be fair, you can say Saturday's game was a shitshow, but I agree Schwarber could have helped Friday and Sunday. That said, Maddon isn't Dusty-ing it up out there or being Bruce Kimm (who famously accidentally pulled Sosa in a double-switch in a 1-run game). Everything I have seen and read about Maddon shows that he has data-based (both qualitative and quantitative) reasons for making the decisions he makes. I get the frustration of a bat like Schwarber sitting on the bench, but I think Joe has earned the right for the benefit of the doubt there.
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 01:13:40 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 11, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
Christ you're one obtuse motherfucker.
Honestly Schwarber hasn't had a bad season. He had a bad month. He hit .246/.378/.459 in his first 16 games, and he's hit .238/.335/.539 in his last 63. In between those two he had a 35 game stretch where he hit .121/.243/.290. He's not taken the next step like we hoped into being Babe Ruth yet, but outside of one putrid stretch in late April/May he's been basically the same dude he was as a rookie.
Pitchers still fear him, which makes him formidable enough to have in the lineup.
That all said, I have 100 percent confidence in Joe Maddon that if he told me that I needed to drink a gallon of paint thinner because it would improve my life and/or the Cubs chances to win a ballgame, I'd only question him on which brand to drink. I don't think his "benching" of Schwarber is arbitrary; I wonder if the reason for it is one he doesn't care to share for competitive reasons. Either way, last year would have been the last season of Ricky Renteria's contract. I don't think he gets the Cubs to the playoffs during his tenure.
I don't want Joe Maddon fired. I think he's probably the best manager out there for this team. That said, I recently got a raise at work and a promotion and yet they also still give me feedback on things they'd like me to do better at each performance review. There's nuance here. Running Heyward out there every day is bad. There is no level of defense in right field that justifies hitting like Jonathan Herrera. Joe should stop being a stubborn ass and forget whatever fucking lesson he's trying to teach and put out the lineup that has the best chance of winning a baseball game. That lineup has Kyle Schwarber in it and not Jason Heyward.
"another day volunteering at the david ross museum. everyone keeps asking me if they can fuck the grandpa rossy scooter. buddy, they wont even let me fuck it"
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 05:25:35 PM
Quote from: Eli on September 11, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 01:13:40 PM
Either way, last year would have been the last season of Ricky Renteria's contract. I don't think he gets the Cubs to the playoffs during his tenure.
The Cubs won the division by 17.5 games last year. You really think Maddon is worth the equivalent of basically two Mike Trouts?
I don't think Lester is here without Maddon. Obviously, neither is Ross. I don't think Renteria would be as good for Arrieta or Schwarber or Bryant making their debuts. I wonder if Castro bounces back like he does the last 6 weeks of the season. I doubt Hammel comes back.
Without Maddon, there is no Zobrist here, no Lackey, Fowler probably doesn't come back as a Free Agent, so yeah, playoffs are iffy.
Those are a lot of assumptions.
Quote from: Eli on September 12, 2017, 12:43:06 PM
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 05:25:35 PM
Quote from: Eli on September 11, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
Quote from: Brownie on September 11, 2017, 01:13:40 PM
Either way, last year would have been the last season of Ricky Renteria's contract. I don't think he gets the Cubs to the playoffs during his tenure.
The Cubs won the division by 17.5 games last year. You really think Maddon is worth the equivalent of basically two Mike Trouts?
I don't think Lester is here without Maddon. Obviously, neither is Ross. I don't think Renteria would be as good for Arrieta or Schwarber or Bryant making their debuts. I wonder if Castro bounces back like he does the last 6 weeks of the season. I doubt Hammel comes back.
Without Maddon, there is no Zobrist here, no Lackey, Fowler probably doesn't come back as a Free Agent, so yeah, playoffs are iffy.
Those are a lot of assumptions.
Hammel talked about coming back to the Cubs literally right after he was traded, didn't he? I think we're retconning Renteria into a guy people didn't like to play for, which is not at all accurate. They really seemed to like him. Heck, Castro may not have needed to "bounce back" during those last 6 weeks because maybe without Maddon/Mallee tinkering with whatever he did in 2014, his best offensive season, he never gets broken to begin with.
These are all assumptions, too, but yeah I just can't buy any argument where a manager was the difference for two teams that made the playoffs but 13+ games.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
.918 OPS in the 51 games since he came back from the minors.
Quote from: Eli on September 12, 2017, 09:59:07 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 11, 2017, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 11, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 10, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Thank fucking christ Heyward is starting they might actually have scored more than one goddamn run. Somedays I miss the gutless fucking assholes thread
What particular type of Zen is this that you're practicing?
There was an opt-out clause in my zen contract if they got swept and were in danger of blowing the division to either the Brewers or a mediocre as shit Cardinals team. Anyway, Joe sitting Schwarber for 3 straight games against RHP while starting Zobrist and Heyward and claiming its due to "matchups" would have been enough to give me an aneurysm even if I was the fucking Dalai Lama.
Well, given that the matchups were "vs. major league pitchers" sitting Schwarber makes sense.
.918 OPS in the 51 games since he came back from the minors.
And 14 dongs. Now being reclassified as FYCs.
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Specifically, I was annoyed by him double-switching Edwards into the game in the 6th--which in and of itself was fine, since as normally is the case with a double-switch, you'd be looking to get 2 innings out of the pitcher. It's the time of year, I assumed, because at this point in his career, Edwards is ready to go more than the 1 inning--if need be--in the playoffs...and
then Edwards goes and has an economical inning on top of it in the 6th, so we're good, right? Schwarber's bat helped you to the lead and Almora is in now for Schwarber on the other end of the double-switch, and so I assumed they were golden.
Then Edwards
doesn't come back out in the 7th, but Maddon double-switches
again, this time taking
Heyward out. If Jason Heyward is good for
anything it'd be for his defense in the late innings of a tight game.
Sure enough the go-ahead run scores on a sharp single to right field which Happ made a game effort on, but on which Heyward may well have gunned down the tying run.
I know Happ helped them tie the game by gritting out an infield hit in the 9th, but it could have--
should have--been rendered unnecessary.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 12:14:48 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Specifically, I was annoyed by him double-switching Edwards into the game in the 6th--which in and of itself was fine, since as normally is the case with a double-switch, you'd be looking to get 2 innings out of the pitcher. It's the time of year, I assumed, because at this point in his career, Edwards is ready to go more than the 1 inning--if need be--in the playoffs...and then Edwards goes and has an economical inning on top of it in the 6th, so we're good, right? Schwarber's bat helped you to the lead and Almora is in now for Schwarber on the other end of the double-switch, and so I assumed they were golden.
Then Edwards doesn't come back out in the 7th, but Maddon double-switches again, this time taking Heyward out. If Jason Heyward is good for anything it'd be for his defense in the late innings of a tight game.
Sure enough the go-ahead run scores on a sharp single to right field which Happ made a game effort on, but on which Heyward may well have gunned down the tying run.
I know Happ helped them tie the game by gritting out an infield hit in the 9th, but it could have--should have--been rendered unnecessary.
If Heyward is in right that ball doesn't fall. Heyward plays shallower than most because he covers so much ground, he'd have been there to get it. But yeah, in general if you put up with the first 7 innings of Heyward, well, shit, leave him in there, because you've reached the part of the game where he's most valuable. Felt like the definition of making moves just to make moves.
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
Pros of expanded rosters: they allow for rest and flexibility in extra inning games/blowouts
Con of expanded rosters: they give Maddon the freedom to get cute (aka make dumb moves)
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
I agree, and I agree with Mike D.: you do not do a double switch if you are not gaining defense and you only want the relief pitcher to finish the inning and not start the next one.
Quote from: Brownie on September 22, 2017, 10:57:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
I agree, and I agree with Mike D.: you do not do a double switch if you are not gaining defense and you only want the relief pitcher to finish the inning and not start the next one.
Yeah taking Heyward out of that game is pretty inexcusable.
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
We had season tickets to the A's games when LaRussa [over]managed. It wasn't a game until Tony got every player off the bench and out of the bullpen.
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
Having read Verducci's book, I'm confident that, even when Joe is seemingly losing his goddamn mind, he's at least thought about what he's doing and has reasons which he could explain to you, even if you might disagree with them.
Apart from that BMIaez bunt with two strikes in the WS. Nobody's ever going to convince me that Joe didn't have a tiny stroke right before that decision.
Quote from: Tonker on September 22, 2017, 01:08:41 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
Having read Verducci's book, I'm confident that, even when Joe is seemingly losing his goddamn mind, he's at least thought about what he's doing and has reasons which he could explain to you, even if you might disagree with them.
Apart from that BMIaez bunt with two strikes in the WS. Nobody's ever going to convince me that Joe didn't have a tiny stroke right before that decision.
I've read that book as well and the thing I pulled from it is that Joe often has incredibly well thought out game plans that he then abandons for no apparent reason. That book spends an entire chapter on how he planned to let Hendricks go 5 and then bring in Lester for a clean inning. He did the exact opposite of that, not trusting Hendricks to get 1 more out when he was cruising along in the 4th and had only "walked" Santana on what was clearly strike 3, then brought in Lester with runners on base.
I'm not asking whether Joe has reasoning or whether he thinks about these things. I think he's very much the victim of over-thinking more than anything.
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
Quote from: Brownie on September 22, 2017, 10:57:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
I agree, and I agree with Mike D.: you do not do a double switch if you are not gaining defense and you only want the relief pitcher to finish the inning and not start the next one.
Yeah taking Heyward out of that game is pretty inexcusable.
Maybe he read your Heyward thread.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
Quote from: Brownie on September 22, 2017, 10:57:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
I agree, and I agree with Mike D.: you do not do a double switch if you are not gaining defense and you only want the relief pitcher to finish the inning and not start the next one.
Yeah taking Heyward out of that game is pretty inexcusable.
Maybe he read your Heyward thread.
Yeah but I think I specifically call him a late inning defensive replacement!
Also Heyward's bat has looked fine lately. I don't get removing him from a game at all. If he was matchup proof when he had an OPS under .700 he's matchup proof now.
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 01:45:36 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
Quote from: Brownie on September 22, 2017, 10:57:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
I agree, and I agree with Mike D.: you do not do a double switch if you are not gaining defense and you only want the relief pitcher to finish the inning and not start the next one.
Yeah taking Heyward out of that game is pretty inexcusable.
Maybe he read your Heyward thread.
Yeah but I think I specifically call him a late inning defensive replacement!
Also Heyward's bat has looked fine lately. I don't get removing him from a game at all. If he was matchup proof when he had an OPS under .700 he's matchup proof now.
When it's a comparatively robust .709!
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 22, 2017, 02:17:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 01:45:36 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
Quote from: Brownie on September 22, 2017, 10:57:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 22, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 22, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 22, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 21, 2017, 10:24:00 PM
What the hell is he smoking tonight
Pretty sure he would have let Jake go another inning had he not been coming off an injury. That would have given Strop, Edwards and Davis all clean innings.
None of that remotely excuses the insane double switches but OK
If Jake could have gone 6 full innings there would have only been double switches to avoid the pitcher ever having his spot come up in the order. It's September, and Joe has a million guys on the bench. It's time to get weird.
Besides, if you're talking about the double switches being insane and not the rec-league 5 men in the infield being insane...
This is entirely my point, though. Circumstances prevented Jake from going 6 so last night would have been a perfect to stretch Edwards out for a second inning. It'd have been, considering what was at stake, a near-knockout punch in a playoff-like spot and the fact that Maddon went through the trouble of double-switching Almora into the game (before later taking Almora out of the game for a pinch-hitter after Baez tied it in the 9th...another mystifying move which I failed to mention earlier), seemed to indicate that Edwards was going to go 2.
I like Joe just fine and recognize that all managers make questionable moves, but just a reminder that in a tight, extra inning game that his 2 best outfielders were not even out there at the end.
I think it's fine to accept that the things Joe does very well are the things we don't see and the things he doesn't do well are the things we do. There is no doubt there's a strong correlation between his determination to rest his players, not abuse his pitchers, etc. and the fact that his Cubs team have always been world-beaters in the second half. The never say die attitude and the constant comebacks late in games, in playoff series, etc. all of that should be attributed at least partly to Joe's leadership.
That said I think his bullpen management is sometimes too conventional, weirdly enough. His lineups are often illogical, and he gets oddly attached to certain role players like Jon Jay, and he makes lots of moves just to make moves. Even then I think that most studies have shown that batting orders and even bullpen usage are worth no more than a handful of wins each year in aggregate, so the criticism fans levy towards those decisions is often out of proportion with how important (not very) those things tend to be over 162 games.
TL, DR: I wouldn't want any other manager than Joe but he's also always going to do inexplicably irritating things, too.
I agree, and I agree with Mike D.: you do not do a double switch if you are not gaining defense and you only want the relief pitcher to finish the inning and not start the next one.
Yeah taking Heyward out of that game is pretty inexcusable.
Maybe he read your Heyward thread.
Yeah but I think I specifically call him a late inning defensive replacement!
Also Heyward's bat has looked fine lately. I don't get removing him from a game at all. If he was matchup proof when he had an OPS under .700 he's matchup proof now.
When it's a comparatively robust .709!
Right, I mean I'm still of the belief that Heyward's contact numbers etc haven't really changed so even his .787 OPS in September is probably a mirage, too, but what I meant was if he was a goddamn fixture every day for 9 innings when he wasn't hitting at all, why suddenly deem him an interchangeable part once he actually is showing some signs of life with the bat.
What the fuck did Kyle Schwarber do to Joe Maddon? Fuck this Zobrist batting 5th with a .695 OPS while Kyle sits garbage. God dammit.
Quote from: SKO on September 24, 2017, 02:16:44 PM
What the fuck did Kyle Schwarber do to Joe Maddon? Fuck this Zobrist batting 5th with a .695 OPS while Kyle sits garbage. God dammit.
Scwharber coulda done that
Quote from: SKO on September 24, 2017, 03:13:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 24, 2017, 02:16:44 PM
What the fuck did Kyle Schwarber do to Joe Maddon? Fuck this Zobrist batting 5th with a .695 OPS while Kyle sits garbage. God dammit.
Scwharber coulda done that
I believe that's a ... FYSKO
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 24, 2017, 06:13:42 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 24, 2017, 03:13:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 24, 2017, 02:16:44 PM
What the fuck did Kyle Schwarber do to Joe Maddon? Fuck this Zobrist batting 5th with a .695 OPS while Kyle sits garbage. God dammit.
Scwharber coulda done that
I believe that's a ... FYSKO
T'was. T'was indeed. BENNAY saw fit to bend me right over.
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
For the same reason Heyward keep's playing: Defense. Kyle can't catch.
And he can't catch.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
For the same reason Heyward keep's playing: Defense. Kyle can't catch.
And he can't catch.
If that's the case it's pretty fuckin dumb. 1) Kyle's defense hasn't been that bad this year. By DRS he's been about 8 runs worse than average, which is merely mediocre, by UZR he's been about average. He's 3.2 above average per Baseball Prospectus' Fielding Runs Above Average metric. His defensive struggles have been vastly overrated. 2) His offense more than makes up for. He's 37th in the NL in fWAR in the 2nd half at 1.2 fWAR. Heyward's been worth 0.5 fWAR in the 2nd half and 0.8 fWAR all year long.
Also Jon Jay has been a 1.6 fWAR player this year with just 0.7 of that coming in the 2nd half. Jay's also been a below average fielder this year, too (albeit playing a lot of CF). There's not really a defensible argument for Jay/Heyward/Zobrist over Schwarber vs RHP.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
For the same reason Heyward keep's playing: Defense. Kyle can't catch.
And he can't catch.
It's left field, dumbass. You don't need to be Andruw Jones to play it. Check out all of the World Series-winning left fielders in history and you'll see more Greg Luzinskis than Joe Dimaggios.
On top of that, Schwarber's been fine in left. I can recall him dropping one ball this year--as did Heyward. If you want to sound like you know what you're talking about, you wouldn't say something so infantile and provocative as "he can't catch"--he's a big leaguer and he can most certainly catch a goddamn flyball, as can anyone who makes it to the bigs-- but, rather, maybe that he has no range. But of course, even that would be wrong because he's displayed more range than most people would have expected out of him. He's rated slightly above-average, defensively, this year.
He's just fine and you're a damn fool for having ragged on Schwarber in May and now you're too proud to admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about so instead you double-down because it makes you think you're saving face when you're not--you're just a vast reservoir of awful and wrong baseball takes. Schwarber's just fine in left.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 25, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
For the same reason Heyward keep's playing: Defense. Kyle can't catch.
And he can't catch.
It's left field, dumbass. You don't need to be Andruw Jones to play it. Check out all of the World Series-winning left fielders in history and you'll see more Greg Luzinskis than Joe Dimaggios.
On top of that, Schwarber's been fine in left. I can recall him dropping one ball this year--as did Heyward. If you want to sound like you know what you're talking about, you wouldn't say something so infantile and provocative as "he can't catch"--he's a big leaguer and he can most certainly catch a goddamn flyball, as can anyone who makes it to the bigs-- but, rather, maybe that he has no range. But of course, even that would be wrong because he's displayed more range than most people would have expected out of him. He's rated slightly above-average, defensively, this year.
He's just fine and you're a damn fool for having ragged on Schwarber in May and now you're too proud to admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about so instead you double-down because it makes you think you're saving face when you're not--you're just a vast reservoir of awful and wrong baseball takes. Schwarber's just fine in left.
I liked my response but I like yours better
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 25, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
For the same reason Heyward keep's playing: Defense. Kyle can't catch.
And he can't catch.
It's left field, dumbass. You don't need to be Andruw Jones to play it. Check out all of the World Series-winning left fielders in history and you'll see more Greg Luzinskis than Joe Dimaggios.
On top of that, Schwarber's been fine in left. I can recall him dropping one ball this year--as did Heyward. If you want to sound like you know what you're talking about, you wouldn't say something so infantile and provocative as "he can't catch"--he's a big leaguer and he can most certainly catch a goddamn flyball, as can anyone who makes it to the bigs-- but, rather, maybe that he has no range. But of course, even that would be wrong because he's displayed more range than most people would have expected out of him. He's rated slightly above-average, defensively, this year.
He's just fine and you're a damn fool for having ragged on Schwarber in May and now you're too proud to admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about so instead you double-down because it makes you think you're saving face when you're not--you're just a vast reservoir of awful and wrong baseball takes. Schwarber's just fine in left.
OK. Then why isn't Joe playing him? Spite?
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 04:09:40 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 25, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
For the same reason Heyward keep's playing: Defense. Kyle can't catch.
And he can't catch.
It's left field, dumbass. You don't need to be Andruw Jones to play it. Check out all of the World Series-winning left fielders in history and you'll see more Greg Luzinskis than Joe Dimaggios.
On top of that, Schwarber's been fine in left. I can recall him dropping one ball this year--as did Heyward. If you want to sound like you know what you're talking about, you wouldn't say something so infantile and provocative as "he can't catch"--he's a big leaguer and he can most certainly catch a goddamn flyball, as can anyone who makes it to the bigs-- but, rather, maybe that he has no range. But of course, even that would be wrong because he's displayed more range than most people would have expected out of him. He's rated slightly above-average, defensively, this year.
He's just fine and you're a damn fool for having ragged on Schwarber in May and now you're too proud to admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about so instead you double-down because it makes you think you're saving face when you're not--you're just a vast reservoir of awful and wrong baseball takes. Schwarber's just fine in left.
OK. Then why isn't Joe playing him? Spite?
This might sound silly but I feel like he's searching for a legitimate leadoff hitter to set the table for Bryant and Rizzo and the only options he has are 2 guys in Zobrist and Jay who otherwise might not be playing every day. Had Schwarber been able to effectively lead off then I don't think we're having this discussion.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 25, 2017, 04:16:50 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 04:09:40 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 25, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
For the same reason Heyward keep's playing: Defense. Kyle can't catch.
And he can't catch.
It's left field, dumbass. You don't need to be Andruw Jones to play it. Check out all of the World Series-winning left fielders in history and you'll see more Greg Luzinskis than Joe Dimaggios.
On top of that, Schwarber's been fine in left. I can recall him dropping one ball this year--as did Heyward. If you want to sound like you know what you're talking about, you wouldn't say something so infantile and provocative as "he can't catch"--he's a big leaguer and he can most certainly catch a goddamn flyball, as can anyone who makes it to the bigs-- but, rather, maybe that he has no range. But of course, even that would be wrong because he's displayed more range than most people would have expected out of him. He's rated slightly above-average, defensively, this year.
He's just fine and you're a damn fool for having ragged on Schwarber in May and now you're too proud to admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about so instead you double-down because it makes you think you're saving face when you're not--you're just a vast reservoir of awful and wrong baseball takes. Schwarber's just fine in left.
OK. Then why isn't Joe playing him? Spite?
This might sound silly but I feel like he's searching for a legitimate leadoff hitter to set the table for Bryant and Rizzo and the only options he has are 2 guys in Zobrist and Jay who otherwise might not be playing every day. Had Schwarber been able to effectively lead off then I don't think we're having this discussion.
So, Jay/Zobrist in RF and Schwarber in left. Isn't that Joe's logical move? Unless he's valuing defense much higher.
I am sure Joe has his reasons. But hear out my radical notion: that reasoning could be bad
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 04:23:46 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 25, 2017, 04:16:50 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 04:09:40 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 25, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on September 25, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 25, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 25, 2017, 02:42:57 PM
OPS in the month of September:
Jon Jay: .722
Ben Zobrist, including yesterday's 2-4 with a dinger: .692
Jason Heyward: .751
Kyle Schwarber: .970
Two straight games against RHP, which of these four sits both times?
None of the other three are playing LF.
Zobrist is in LF tonight. My personal preference would still be benching Heyward bc he has 1 XHB hit in his last 8 games, and even though his September numbers are better than the rest of his season #s his contact rates/hard hit rates haven't really changed much so there's not really much reason to think he'll continue being good going further. But still, it seems like "play the hot hand" only applies to Jay/Zobrist and not Schwarber, since Kyle has been a top 25 hitter (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=150&type=8&season=2017&month=31&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d)in the NL since the break and is still getting sidelined for no fucking reason.
Quote from: you, this morning on September 25, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
I'll say this-- knowing the Cubs have their ring in the bag and since they appear to have avoided the one scenario in which I'd have deemed this year a disappointment (either losing the division to STL or MIL or losing to STL in the playoffs--in fact they're doing the exact opposite and clinching/eliminating STL in one fell swoop this week, probably) I'm just going to let this October play out however it will.
A) check the calendar, Moran
B) I don't know that it's angst or panic or whatever Huey wants to call it to question why Joe is leaving one of the best hitters in the National League on the bench yet again.
For the same reason Heyward keep's playing: Defense. Kyle can't catch.
And he can't catch.
It's left field, dumbass. You don't need to be Andruw Jones to play it. Check out all of the World Series-winning left fielders in history and you'll see more Greg Luzinskis than Joe Dimaggios.
On top of that, Schwarber's been fine in left. I can recall him dropping one ball this year--as did Heyward. If you want to sound like you know what you're talking about, you wouldn't say something so infantile and provocative as "he can't catch"--he's a big leaguer and he can most certainly catch a goddamn flyball, as can anyone who makes it to the bigs-- but, rather, maybe that he has no range. But of course, even that would be wrong because he's displayed more range than most people would have expected out of him. He's rated slightly above-average, defensively, this year.
He's just fine and you're a damn fool for having ragged on Schwarber in May and now you're too proud to admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about so instead you double-down because it makes you think you're saving face when you're not--you're just a vast reservoir of awful and wrong baseball takes. Schwarber's just fine in left.
OK. Then why isn't Joe playing him? Spite?
This might sound silly but I feel like he's searching for a legitimate leadoff hitter to set the table for Bryant and Rizzo and the only options he has are 2 guys in Zobrist and Jay who otherwise might not be playing every day. Had Schwarber been able to effectively lead off then I don't think we're having this discussion.
So, Jay/Zobrist in RF and Schwarber in left. Isn't that Joe's logical move? Unless he's valuing defense much higher.
Well my call would've been Zobrist in right field, but even that leaves me nervous with Zobrist as the everyday right fielder in the playoffs. I can live with Heyward in right as long as it also includes Schwarber in left. You're offsetting each other's deficiencies this way, but then you're stuck without any true table-setter at the top of the order (damn why couldn't Schwarber not've sucked at leadoff?). As it is Heyward in right and Jay/Zobrist in LF doesn't do much for me.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on September 25, 2017, 05:26:52 PM
Well my call would've been Zobrist in right field, but even that leaves me nervous with Zobrist as the everyday right fielder in the playoffs. I can live with Heyward in right as long as it also includes Schwarber in left. You're offsetting each other's deficiencies this way, but then you're stuck without any true table-setter at the top of the order (damn why couldn't Schwarber not've sucked at leadoff?). As it is Heyward in right and Jay/Zobrist in LF doesn't do much for me.
You're a damn fool for ragging on Schwarber's May
Giving Wilson the hook mid-AB was ice cold. I positive.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 27, 2017, 08:12:52 AM
Giving Wilson the hook mid-AB was ice cold. I positive.
He called Jason Hammel after the game and they had a long but good cry.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 27, 2017, 08:12:52 AM
Giving Wilson the hook mid-AB was ice cold. I positive.
If I remember correctly he did this once before, yanking Rondon from a game and replacing him with Strop back in 2015.
SKO will be happy to know that Kyle is in the lineup tonight.
Quote from: Shooter on September 28, 2017, 01:57:40 PM
SKO will be happy to know that Kyle is in the lineup tonight.
Yeah, let's get a look at that post-clinching lineup, shall we?
CF Martin
2B La Stella
RF Happ
C Avila
LF Schwarber
1B Caratini
3B Davis
SS Freeman
P Hendricks
If the Cardinals still lose, they should be contracted.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 28, 2017, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Shooter on September 28, 2017, 01:57:40 PM
SKO will be happy to know that Kyle is in the lineup tonight.
Yeah, let's get a look at that post-clinching lineup, shall we?
CF Martin
2B La Stella
RF Happ
C Avila
LF Schwarber
1B Caratini
3B Davis
SS Freeman
P Hendricks
If the Cardinals still lose, they should be contracted.
The Taylor Davis Game.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 28, 2017, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Shooter on September 28, 2017, 01:57:40 PM
SKO will be happy to know that Kyle is in the lineup tonight.
Yeah, let's get a look at that post-clinching lineup, shall we?
CF Martin
2B La Stella
RF Happ
C Avila
LF Schwarber
1B Caratini
3B Davis
SS Freeman
P Hendricks
If the Cardinals still lose, they should be contracted.
Not sure I'd go with Avila then Schwarb...oh right...nevermind.
Quote from: D. Doluntap on September 28, 2017, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 28, 2017, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Shooter on September 28, 2017, 01:57:40 PM
SKO will be happy to know that Kyle is in the lineup tonight.
Yeah, let's get a look at that post-clinching lineup, shall we?
CF Martin
2B La Stella
RF Happ
C Avila
LF Schwarber
1B Caratini
3B Davis
SS Freeman
P Hendricks
If the Cardinals still lose, they should be contracted.
Not sure I'd go with Avila then Schwarb...oh right...nevermind.
I'm a little disappointed there are still two catchers on the bench.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 28, 2017, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 28, 2017, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Shooter on September 28, 2017, 01:57:40 PM
SKO will be happy to know that Kyle is in the lineup tonight.
Yeah, let's get a look at that post-clinching lineup, shall we?
CF Martin
2B La Stella
RF Happ
C Avila
LF Schwarber
1B Caratini
3B Davis
SS Freeman
P Hendricks
If the Cardinals still lose, they should be contracted.
The Taylor Davis Game.
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT one thinking Joe Maddon's all about MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
Gonzalez is the only lefty in Washington's rotation. Our Large Adult Son will be a busy boy.
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Quote from: Tonker on October 03, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Oh yes, in a larger sense he's not right regardless of how this plays out, because we all know he's just wrong about Schwarber, period.
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Tonker on October 03, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Oh yes, in a larger sense he's not right regardless of how this plays out, because we all know he's just wrong about Schwarber, period.
Yes. I'm wrong.
Also, I was agreeing with "Zo over Schwarber vs RHP". Which was your quote.
So, you are just as wrong as I am.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Tonker on October 03, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Oh yes, in a larger sense he's not right regardless of how this plays out, because we all know he's just wrong about Schwarber, period.
Yes. I'm wrong.
Also, I was agreeing with "Zo over Schwarber vs RHP". Which was your quote.
So, you are just as wrong as I am.
ChristinaHendricksEyeroll.gif
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 03, 2017, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Tonker on October 03, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Oh yes, in a larger sense he's not right regardless of how this plays out, because we all know he's just wrong about Schwarber, period.
Yes. I'm wrong.
Also, I was agreeing with "Zo over Schwarber vs RHP". Which was your quote.
So, you are just as wrong as I am.
ChristinaHendricksEyeroll.gif
I just searched that very thing in giphy, and I enjoyed the results.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 03, 2017, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Tonker on October 03, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Oh yes, in a larger sense he's not right regardless of how this plays out, because we all know he's just wrong about Schwarber, period.
Yes. I'm wrong.
Also, I was agreeing with "Zo over Schwarber vs RHP". Which was your quote.
So, you are just as wrong as I am.
ChristinaHendricksEyeroll.gif
You have a wide screen? Nice.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 01:59:47 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 03, 2017, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Tonker on October 03, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Oh yes, in a larger sense he's not right regardless of how this plays out, because we all know he's just wrong about Schwarber, period.
Yes. I'm wrong.
Also, I was agreeing with "Zo over Schwarber vs RHP". Which was your quote.
So, you are just as wrong as I am.
ChristinaHendricksEyeroll.gif
You have a wide screen? Nice.
You have a widescreen as well I assume.
Yet you see so little.
Quote from: flannj on October 03, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 01:59:47 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 03, 2017, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Tonker on October 03, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Oh yes, in a larger sense he's not right regardless of how this plays out, because we all know he's just wrong about Schwarber, period.
Yes. I'm wrong.
Also, I was agreeing with "Zo over Schwarber vs RHP". Which was your quote.
So, you are just as wrong as I am.
ChristinaHendricksEyeroll.gif
You have a wide screen? Nice.
You have a widescreen as well I assume.
Yet you see so little.
Chuck's just mad he has to scroll sideways to see both breasts.
Quote from: flannj on October 03, 2017, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 01:59:47 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 03, 2017, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 10:01:09 AM
Quote from: Tonker on October 03, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 03, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Oleg on October 03, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 02, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: R-V on October 02, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 02, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Season OPS/September OPS:
Schwarber: .782/.938
Jay: .749/.699
Heyward: .715/.798
Zobrist: .693/.648
Make the right call, Joe. Jay hit .313 with a .351 OBP in September, so he can at least get on base. Zobrist slashed .227/.307/.341 so he didn't really do anything well of late.
Also for any Chucks wanting to cry BUT MUH DEFENSE, Zobrist was a -4 run outfielder in 360 innings this year, Schwarber has been -9 in 821 innings. They're basically equally meh defensively, and one of them has been a demonstrably better hitter. It's not the old dude.
Also:
Happ: .842/.824
Almora: .782/1.000
If you assume a Rizzo-Baez-Russell-Bryant everyday infield alignment for October, that leaves 6 guys for 3 spots in the outfield (until the DH comes into play in a few weeks).
My personal preference would be a Schwarber-Almora-Happ alignment with Jay & Zobrist as excellent PH options and Heyward as a defensive replacement, but I've made my peace with the fact that Joe is going to have different ideas than I do and many of those ideas are going to include Jay & Zobrist starting.
I expect we'll see plenty of Happ and Almora vs LHP. But Zo over Schwarber vs RHP is gonna be gross.
If the past few weeks is prologue, Schwarber is going to sit a lot and, if he starts, he's going to be pinch hit for early in games.
I guess the same would be true of Rizzo and Bryant, huh? You know...if the past few weeks are a prologue. Because it's always best to draw conclusions about player usage from irrelevant September games in which the active roster can have 40 players on it.
Chuck has just twisted things to the point where he's right about Schwarber, regardless of how he's used. If he sits, Chuck was right. If he starts but gets pulled for defense with a late lead like any manager would do, Chuck is somehow right.
Now, more than ever, it's important to remember that Chuck is fucking ALWAYS wrong. He's literally never right.
Oh yes, in a larger sense he's not right regardless of how this plays out, because we all know he's just wrong about Schwarber, period.
Yes. I'm wrong.
Also, I was agreeing with "Zo over Schwarber vs RHP". Which was your quote.
So, you are just as wrong as I am.
ChristinaHendricksEyeroll.gif
You have a wide screen? Nice.
You have a widescreen as well I assume.
Yet you see so little.
Bank upgraded me to two side-by-side 4x3s. I can now see 75% of Hendricks' butt.
Zobrist RF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Contreras C
Schwarber LF
Russell SS
Heyward CF
Baez 2B
I think this is actually the right call here. Jay can sub in for any of the three outfielders if needed, Happ available to PH vs the Nats left-handed heavy pen. Good deal, Joe.
Quote from: SKO on October 06, 2017, 02:59:28 PM
Zobrist RF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Contreras C
Schwarber LF
Russell SS
Heyward CF
Baez 2B
I think this is actually the right call here. Jay can sub in for any of the three outfielders if needed, Happ available to PH vs the Nats left-handed heavy pen. Good deal, Joe.
With a lead, Jay will go in late in center, Zobrist to left, Heyward to right. Would prefer Baez behind Schwarber.
Quote from: SKO on October 06, 2017, 02:59:28 PM
Zobrist RF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Contreras C
Schwarber LF
Russell SS
Heyward CF
Baez 2B
I think this is actually the right call here. Jay can sub in for any of the three outfielders if needed, Happ available to PH vs the Nats left-handed heavy pen. Good deal, Joe.
That's beautiful.
Quote from: SKO on October 06, 2017, 02:59:28 PM
Zobrist RF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Contreras C
Schwarber LF
Russell SS
Heyward CF
Baez 2B
I think this is actually the right call here. Jay can sub in for any of the three outfielders if needed, Happ available to PH vs the Nats left-handed heavy pen. Good deal, Joe.
They won while getting puke from Zobrist at the top. "I look forward to Jay being back at the top of the lineup" is not something I thought I'd find myself saying during the playoffs as recently as a month ago. What a time to be alive.
According to Phil Rogers, Dusty Baker and Joe Maddon are "cut from the same cloth." Okay, Phil.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 06, 2017, 11:35:43 PM
According to Phil Rogers, Dusty Baker and Joe Maddon are "cut from the same cloth." Okay, Phil.
They do both have birthdays among many other similarities.
Quote from: ChuckD on October 07, 2017, 07:05:08 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 06, 2017, 11:35:43 PM
According to Phil Rogers, Dusty Baker and Joe Maddon are "cut from the same cloth." Okay, Phil.
They do both have birthdays among many other similarities.
Both have managed the Cubs.
Both are from a bygone era and are known for running a loose clubhouse.
Both have lost change in couch cushions.
I could go on.
Joe's great. But not sure why he didn't go to Montgomery for Harper. He'd been warming for 6 innings.
Also Ron Darling sucks.
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 07, 2017, 07:49:08 PM
Joe's great. But not sure why he didn't go to Montgomery for Harper. He'd been warming for 6 innings.
Also Ron Darling sucks.
Dusty thinks he outmanaged Joe. So do others. Very cute.
Batting Zo fifth against Scherzer and leaving out La Stella, who has hit Scherzer well in a small sample (and Scherzer has very pronounced splits anyway) is disappointing. His refusal to admit Zobrist isn't the same guy is getting to Dusty levels of veteran favoritism.
Shit with Scherzer's splits (.425 OPS vs RHB, .692 vs LHB) I'd have wanted Avila, La Stella, Happ all to find their way into the lineup rather than Zobrist.
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
Batting Zo fifth against Scherzer and leaving out La Stella, who has hit Scherzer well in a small sample (and Scherzer has very pronounced splits anyway) is disappointing. His refusal to admit Zobrist isn't the same guy is getting to Dusty levels of veteran favoritism.
I see this is Zobrist's Last Stand. If he continues to not hit Joe's got to stop putting him in the lineup. If you're going to sit Baez and sacrifice defense to get some offense in there (which is defensible...Javy's in a little bit of a down-cycle right now and Scherzer is tough), why would you not put in La Stella? Again, if Zobrist actually ropes a couple balls off the wall today, then I'll just sit over here and drink my can of STFU.
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 07, 2017, 07:49:08 PM
Joe's great. But not sure why he didn't go to Montgomery for Harper. He'd been warming for 6 innings.
Also Ron Darling sucks.
This isn't getting enough attention. Good Lord I cannot stand the sound of that man's voice. Somehow he was convinced in Game 2 that Wade Davis spent 2016 setting up Chapman for the Cubs.
Quote from: CT III on October 09, 2017, 01:52:03 PM
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 07, 2017, 07:49:08 PM
Joe's great. But not sure why he didn't go to Montgomery for Harper. He'd been warming for 6 innings.
Also Ron Darling sucks.
This isn't getting enough attention. Good Lord I cannot stand the sound of that man's voice. Somehow he was convinced in Game 2 that Wade Davis spent 2016 setting up Chapman for the Cubs.
Probably because this is the Joe Maddon thread.
MODS! YOUS!
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
Batting Zo fifth against Scherzer and leaving out La Stella, who has hit Scherzer well in a small sample (and Scherzer has very pronounced splits anyway) is disappointing. His refusal to admit Zobrist isn't the same guy is getting to Dusty levels of veteran favoritism.
How's that October Zen working out for ya, Hoss?
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 09, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
Batting Zo fifth against Scherzer and leaving out La Stella, who has hit Scherzer well in a small sample (and Scherzer has very pronounced splits anyway) is disappointing. His refusal to admit Zobrist isn't the same guy is getting to Dusty levels of veteran favoritism.
How's that October Zen working out for ya, Hoss?
I'm...not allowed to disagree with a lineup? I didn't drop any F bombs so I would consider that to be relatively tame as far as my criticism goes. I was also a touch disappointed that they lost in game 2 when I would have preferred they won. Sue me.
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 09, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
Batting Zo fifth against Scherzer and leaving out La Stella, who has hit Scherzer well in a small sample (and Scherzer has very pronounced splits anyway) is disappointing. His refusal to admit Zobrist isn't the same guy is getting to Dusty levels of veteran favoritism.
How's that October Zen working out for ya, Hoss?
I'm...not allowed to disagree with a lineup? I didn't drop any F bombs so I would consider that to be relatively tame as far as my criticism goes. I was also a touch disappointed that they lost in game 2 when I would have preferred they won. Sue me.
Don't listen to him SKO, you're doing fine.
Quote from: CT III on October 09, 2017, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 09, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
Batting Zo fifth against Scherzer and leaving out La Stella, who has hit Scherzer well in a small sample (and Scherzer has very pronounced splits anyway) is disappointing. His refusal to admit Zobrist isn't the same guy is getting to Dusty levels of veteran favoritism.
How's that October Zen working out for ya, Hoss?
I'm...not allowed to disagree with a lineup? I didn't drop any F bombs so I would consider that to be relatively tame as far as my criticism goes. I was also a touch disappointed that they lost in game 2 when I would have preferred they won. Sue me.
Don't listen to him SKO, you're doing fine.
I can't promise my eye won't twitch if Zobrist makes outs in key spots today, but otherwise I'm pretty much at peace with however this series can play out. The Nationals are very, very good. If the Cubs get beat, they get beat.
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 02:44:50 PM
If the Cubs get beat, they get beat.
Ivan DragSKO
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: CT III on October 09, 2017, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 09, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 09, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
Batting Zo fifth against Scherzer and leaving out La Stella, who has hit Scherzer well in a small sample (and Scherzer has very pronounced splits anyway) is disappointing. His refusal to admit Zobrist isn't the same guy is getting to Dusty levels of veteran favoritism.
How's that October Zen working out for ya, Hoss?
I'm...not allowed to disagree with a lineup? I didn't drop any F bombs so I would consider that to be relatively tame as far as my criticism goes. I was also a touch disappointed that they lost in game 2 when I would have preferred they won. Sue me.
Don't listen to him SKO, you're doing fine.
I can't promise my eye won't twitch if Zobrist makes outs in key spots today, but otherwise I'm pretty much at peace with however this series can play out. The Nationals are very, very good. If the Cubs get beat, they get beat.
Twitching
Love too watch Zobirst and Haywards struggle with runners on base in the playoffs
Ben did something!!!!! BENNY, BENNY AND THE JETSSS
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 09, 2017, 05:30:38 PM
Ben did something!!!!! BENNY, BENNY AND THE JETSSS
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/560453b4e4b0be7e3d4ae70c/t/569949d057eb8d50e315f4a4/1452886484886/julianna+final.jpg?format=500w)
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 09, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 09, 2017, 05:30:38 PM
Ben did something!!!!! BENNY, BENNY AND THE JETSSS
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/560453b4e4b0be7e3d4ae70c/t/569949d057eb8d50e315f4a4/1452886484886/julianna+final.jpg?format=500w)
Good God, is that what she really looks like?
I've only seen her from a distance.
Through a dirty windshield on a rainy night from 30 yards away.
Quote from: flannj on October 09, 2017, 09:39:39 PM
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 09, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 09, 2017, 05:30:38 PM
Ben did something!!!!! BENNY, BENNY AND THE JETSSS
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/560453b4e4b0be7e3d4ae70c/t/569949d057eb8d50e315f4a4/1452886484886/julianna+final.jpg?format=500w)
Good God, is that what she really looks like?
I've only seen her from a distance.
Through a dirty windshield on a rainy night from 30 yards away.
How much time's left on that restraining order?
What the fuck
Quote from: SKO on October 12, 2017, 11:21:52 PM
What the fuck
In Joe's defense, the entire bullpen has been a trash fire. It's more of a controlled demolition though, not an explosion, so that's why they're still winning (for now).
Quote from: SKO on October 12, 2017, 11:21:52 PM
What the fuck
Schwarber still in left, Montgomery still on the mound in the 8th in a one-run game... Joe's only good decision this postseason has been to ride Davis when he had no choice in Game 5. After that...
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 14, 2017, 09:49:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 12, 2017, 11:21:52 PM
What the fuck
Schwarber still in left, Montgomery still on the mound in the 8th in a one-run game... Joe's only good decision this postseason has been to ride Davis when he had no choice in Game 5. After that...
Well look who it fuckin' is now that they're trailing. Our good buddy old pal CFiHP, who only feels alive when there's something to bitch and moan about. Enjoying the game, chief?
FUCK YOU JOE
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 15, 2017, 10:07:22 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 15, 2017, 10:03:35 PM
FUCK YOU JOE JOHN
Fixed.
Nope. Lackey shouldn't even be in there. Joe pulled a Matheny-Wacha and saved a closer for a save opportunity that never existed. Fuck him
Quote from: SKO on October 15, 2017, 10:20:23 PM
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 15, 2017, 10:07:22 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 15, 2017, 10:03:35 PM
FUCK YOU JOE JOHN
Fixed.
Nope. Lackey shouldn't even be in there. Joe pulled a Matheny-Wacha and saved a closer for a save opportunity that never existed. Fuck him
I agree with that. But Lackey should have focused less on the "gamesmanship" with Chris Taylor, and more, on you know, getting him out, and not surrendering the Cubs fucking 9th walk of the night (which is nuts).
I don't understand why everyone is saying BUT THE OFFENSE in response to criticism of Joe's dumbass move to bring in Lackey. As if in the playoffs the offense is expected to score 10 runs per game and the manager's bullpen decisions don't matter. As if the situation and score that actually existed didn't matter. You should be able to win a 2-1 game in October.
Bringing in Lackey tonight is the worst move I've ever seen Joe make. Worse than Game 7 of the WS, even. Throwing Chapman for that long, the early hook for Kyle, bringing in Lester with a runner on mid-inning, those I could at least come up with a defense. There's no defending this at all. He brought in the single worst pitcher on the staff he could have chosen for the situation and score, and even more than that, he asked Lackey to do something he'd never done in his entire career. Lackey did what you'd expect Lackey to do. Game over. I don't understand it at all. Get your head out of your ass, Joe.
I would argue that Joe's worst move as manager of the Cubs was in game 6 when he used Chapman way more than he needed to in a game at hand, if those exist in the playoffs. At least Wade is fresh for three straight nights in Wrigley?
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 16, 2017, 02:19:04 AM
I don't understand why everyone is saying BUT THE OFFENSE in response to criticism of Joe's dumbass move to bring in Lackey. As if in the playoffs the offense is expected to score 10 runs per game and the manager's bullpen decisions don't matter. As if the situation and score that actually existed didn't matter. You should be able to win a 2-1 game in October.
Bringing in Lackey tonight is the worst move I've ever seen Joe make. Worse than Game 7 of the WS, even. Throwing Chapman for that long, the early hook for Kyle, bringing in Lester with a runner on mid-inning, those I could at least come up with a defense. There's no defending this at all. He brought in the single worst pitcher on the staff he could have chosen for the situation and score, and even more than that, he asked Lackey to do something he'd never done in his entire career. Lackey did what you'd expect Lackey to do. Game over. I don't understand it at all. Get your head out of your ass, Joe.
This. All of those "IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT JOE DOES, OFFENSE CANT SCORE" assholes are ignoring that the Cubs have led, been tied, or trailed by 1 in every single playoff game going into the 7th/8th inning. The vaunted offenses of their opponents are also sucking against Cubs starting pitching, because
hitting elite starting pitching in October is fucking hard. These games are being decided by the bullpens, and a lot of that isn't Joe's fault because every one of his relievers has disappointed at some point this month, but some of it is, and making the absolute dumbest possible decision to use Lackey is absolutely a thing he should be raked over the coals for.
Also if you want to trace every Cubs problem back to them not scoring, maybe stop excusing Joe for running Heyward and Zobrist out there for 3-5 PA a game or for letting Almora face Kenley in the 9th with a runner on when Kenley's OPS vs LHB is .325 points higher, you have Schwarber/La Stella/Avila on the bench, and Martin could replace him on defense (WHICH HE FUCKING DID THE NEXT INNING ANYWAY). Joe's out there putting out a lineup that prioritizes defense over offense, which means he's aiming to win close games anyway, in those situations his management is then even more important because you can't expect to score many runs. He's the one narrowing his own margin for error.
Yep, this is clearly Maddon's fault.
Fucking guy should have had Mike Trout in center last night.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 16, 2017, 08:11:08 AM
Yep, this is clearly Maddon's fault.
Fucking guy should have had Mike Trout in center last night.
This is some strawman fucking bullshit. Has it ever occurred to you teams lose for multiple reasons?
Here's why the Cubs lost:
1) They didn't score runs
2) They allowed more runs than they scored to the opponent.
3) Both 1 and 2 were somewhat influenced by the manager.
You can focus on the first two bullet points, or you can just focus on the third, or you can focus on all of them. Criticizing Joe does not mean you don't also think Bryant/Rizzo/Willsons need to step up. That said, Joe has to manage for the situation he's in, not the situation he wishes he was in. The Astros have won two LCS games by a combined score of 4-2. Nobody is screaming that their offense needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP. It's hard to score in October. You have to do everything right to win. Joe didn't. He deserves as much criticism for failing to do his job as Bryant/Rizzo et al deserve for failing to do theirs. One doesn't excuse the other.
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 08:21:21 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 16, 2017, 08:11:08 AM
Yep, this is clearly Maddon's fault.
Fucking guy should have had Mike Trout in center last night.
This is some strawman fucking bullshit. Has it ever occurred to you teams lose for multiple reasons?
Here's why the Cubs lost:
1) They didn't score runs
2) They allowed more runs than they scored to the opponent.
3) Both 1 and 2 were somewhat influenced by the manager.
You can focus on the first two bullet points, or you can just focus on the third, or you can focus on all of them. Criticizing Joe does not mean you don't also think Bryant/Rizzo/Willsons need to step up. That said, Joe has to manage for the situation he's in, not the situation he wishes he was in. The Astros have won two LCS games by a combined score of 4-2. Nobody is screaming that their offense needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP. It's hard to score in October. You have to do everything right to win. Joe didn't. He deserves as much criticism for failing to do his job as Bryant/Rizzo et al deserve for failing to do theirs. One doesn't excuse the other.
You do realize this is a Dodgers team that finished 12 games ahead of the Cubs, even with their late-season implosion, right? They're really fucking good. Like 2016 Cubs good.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 16, 2017, 08:23:47 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 08:21:21 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 16, 2017, 08:11:08 AM
Yep, this is clearly Maddon's fault.
Fucking guy should have had Mike Trout in center last night.
This is some strawman fucking bullshit. Has it ever occurred to you teams lose for multiple reasons?
Here's why the Cubs lost:
1) They didn't score runs
2) They allowed more runs than they scored to the opponent.
3) Both 1 and 2 were somewhat influenced by the manager.
You can focus on the first two bullet points, or you can just focus on the third, or you can focus on all of them. Criticizing Joe does not mean you don't also think Bryant/Rizzo/Willsons need to step up. That said, Joe has to manage for the situation he's in, not the situation he wishes he was in. The Astros have won two LCS games by a combined score of 4-2. Nobody is screaming that their offense needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP. It's hard to score in October. You have to do everything right to win. Joe didn't. He deserves as much criticism for failing to do his job as Bryant/Rizzo et al deserve for failing to do theirs. One doesn't excuse the other.
You do realize this is a Dodgers team that finished 12 games ahead of the Cubs, even with their late-season implosion, right? They're really fucking good. Like 2016 Cubs good.
Wow, that's amazing. When you have a chance to beat them in their stadium and steal homefield you should definitely not put in John Lackey to face their best hitter. That'd be a catastrophically stupid decision when you're already facing pretty tough odds.
DPD, but yes, I realize the Dodgers are good. That was actually my point. The Dodgers don't give up a lot of runs. That's not all on Cubs hitters. They won 104 games cuz they can fucking pitch. They had nearly outlasted every single great Dodger reliever, though, and might have had a chance to score and steal one in extras against the lesser parts of their bullpen. Use Wade to get there and worry about who saves when that problem actually comes up.
If the Cubs get their asses kicked, 2015 NLCS-style, that's not on Joe, and I'm certainly not going to blame the Cubs hitters for just flat out getting beat by a very good team. It happens. But if they manage to claw their way back into this and lose the series 4-3 I'm sure going to spend a lot of time wondering how differently things might have gone if Joe hadn't done an indefensibly stupid thing.
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 08:28:30 AM
DPD, but yes, I realize the Dodgers are good. That was actually my point. The Dodgers don't give up a lot of runs. That's not all on Cubs hitters. They won 104 games cuz they can fucking pitch. They had nearly outlasted every single great Dodger reliever, though, and might have had a chance to score and steal one in extras against the lesser parts of their bullpen. Use Wade to get there and worry about who saves when that problem actually comes up.
If the Cubs get their asses kicked, 2015 NLCS-style, that's not on Joe, and I'm certainly not going to blame the Cubs hitters for just flat out getting beat by a very good team. It happens. But if they manage to claw their way back into this and lose the series 4-3 I'm sure going to spend a lot of time wondering how differently things might have gone if Joe hadn't done an indefensibly stupid thing.
In the most Zenlike manner, I'm sure.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on October 16, 2017, 09:05:20 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 08:28:30 AM
DPD, but yes, I realize the Dodgers are good. That was actually my point. The Dodgers don't give up a lot of runs. That's not all on Cubs hitters. They won 104 games cuz they can fucking pitch. They had nearly outlasted every single great Dodger reliever, though, and might have had a chance to score and steal one in extras against the lesser parts of their bullpen. Use Wade to get there and worry about who saves when that problem actually comes up.
If the Cubs get their asses kicked, 2015 NLCS-style, that's not on Joe, and I'm certainly not going to blame the Cubs hitters for just flat out getting beat by a very good team. It happens. But if they manage to claw their way back into this and lose the series 4-3 I'm sure going to spend a lot of time wondering how differently things might have gone if Joe hadn't done an indefensibly stupid thing.
In the most Zenlike manner, I'm sure.
Look I went to my Yogi to help with my chill and he saw me and screamed "WHY THE FUCK DID HE PUT IN LACKEY"
We are all extremely mad online about Joe's decision making last night. I have to think Theo & Jed are even angrier. I'm genuinely curious at what point they start to question if the shittiness of his in-game tactics outweighs his abilities as magical clubhouse whisperer.
Quote from: R-V on October 16, 2017, 09:24:40 AM
We are all extremely mad online about Joe's decision making last night. I have to think Theo & Jed are even angrier. I'm genuinely curious at what point they start to question if the shittiness of his in-game tactics outweighs his abilities as magical clubhouse whisperer.
I've always sort of expected Rossy to succeed Joe. Perhaps that day'll come a little sooner than originally thought.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on October 16, 2017, 09:31:21 AM
Quote from: R-V on October 16, 2017, 09:24:40 AM
We are all extremely mad online about Joe's decision making last night. I have to think Theo & Jed are even angrier. I'm genuinely curious at what point they start to question if the shittiness of his in-game tactics outweighs his abilities as magical clubhouse whisperer.
I've always sort of expected Rossy to succeed Joe. Perhaps that day'll come a little sooner than originally thought.
Before last night I always deemed Joe's fuck ups more "annoying quirks you put up with for the overall good Joe provides" (although I don't know how I'd have felt if he'd actually succeeded in blowing game 7), last night was the first time I ever honestly thought "If Jed and Theo fire him I'd say they were justified."
Joe was brought here to instill a winning culture, acclimate the young guys to the majors, help them get over the hump. He did all of that. It's worth asking the question at least if a better tactician like Trueblood might be more the route they want to go now that playing in October every year is pretty likely. The rosters should be good enough that anyone could steer them to October the next few years, they might start to put a premium on someone less likely to fuck it up when they get there.
That said I don't think there's anyway Theo and Jed would fire him one year after a championship.
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 09:56:02 AMa better tactician like Trueblood
I laughed. I also have to admit the David Ross thought entered my head last night, although there's really no way to know if he'd actually be a good tactician or just revert to his gut in October like Joe does.
Quote from: R-V on October 16, 2017, 10:01:05 AM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 09:56:02 AMa better tactician like Trueblood
I laughed. I also have to admit the David Ross thought entered my head last night, although there's really no way to know if he'd actually be a good tactician or just revert to his gut in October like Joe does.
Joe said something before the Nats series, when someone asked him about his lineup vs Scherzer (who is mortal vs LHB and Godlike vs RHB) and how it didn't feature that many lefties and Joe said "now is the time for simplicity." That to me seems so ass-backwards and so indicative of how Joe seems to freeze up at crunch time. The guy plays matchups all year long, pays close attention to pitcher splits/reverse splits etc but come October it's "make one lineup and stick with it" and "ride the horses that brought you here" like you're Dusty Baker. This should absolutely be the time to seek every possible matchup advantage you can.
He's a guy that seems to love his reputation as a wacky and unconventional and yet he retreats to managing by a book written in 1968 when October rolls around.
I can't defend the decisions and this weekend was not Joe's best effort, but give me a break... you want to fire Joe Maddon, a manager whose regular season record is 99 games over .500 in three seasons with the Cubs and who has won 39% of the franchise's postseason games and 67 percent of its playoff series?
The Cubs stole Games 1 and 3 vs. Washington. CJ Edwards made one mistake or they would have won Game 2 as well. That series was as physically and mentally draining as you can get in a 5-game series.
The fortunate thing is these weren't elimination games.
Quote from: Brownie on October 16, 2017, 12:41:33 PM
I can't defend the decisions and this weekend was not Joe's best effort, but give me a break... you want to fire Joe Maddon, a manager whose regular season record is 99 games over .500 in three seasons with the Cubs and who has won 39% of the franchise's postseason games and 67 percent of its playoff series?
The Cubs stole Games 1 and 3 vs. Washington. CJ Edwards made one mistake or they would have won Game 2 as well. That series was as physically and mentally draining as you can get in a 5-game series.
The fortunate thing is these weren't elimination games.
I get it, but as Cubs fans one thing we're going to need to do is stop comparing what this team does to team history and saying "see it can't be that bad." Expectations have been raised, I don't give a shit if he's better than Jim Lefebvre. The % of franchise postseason wins he's managed is irrelevant. The only question that should ever be asked is "could the Cubs hire a manager that gives them a better chance of winning the next world series than Joe." I'm actually not sure if the answer is yes right now, but I know it's not wrong to ask.
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Brownie on October 16, 2017, 12:41:33 PM
I can't defend the decisions and this weekend was not Joe's best effort, but give me a break... you want to fire Joe Maddon, a manager whose regular season record is 99 games over .500 in three seasons with the Cubs and who has won 39% of the franchise's postseason games and 67 percent of its playoff series?
The Cubs stole Games 1 and 3 vs. Washington. CJ Edwards made one mistake or they would have won Game 2 as well. That series was as physically and mentally draining as you can get in a 5-game series.
The fortunate thing is these weren't elimination games.
I get it, but as Cubs fans one thing we're going to need to do is stop comparing what this team does to team history and saying "see it can't be that bad." Expectations have been raised, I don't give a shit if he's better than Jim Lefebvre. The % of franchise postseason wins he's managed is irrelevant. The only question that should ever be asked is "could the Cubs hire a manager that gives them a better chance of winning the next world series than Joe." I'm actually not sure if the answer is yes right now, but I know it's not wrong to ask.
It's not a question of whether you employer
can fire you and replace you if they find someone who'd be better and more willing to do your job, especially if they pay you whatever they are obligated to. It's a question of whether doing so when you have achieved every measurable objective, have the support of your direct reports, and have otherwise exceeded expectations is good for the organizational culture. He's made tactical errors, major ones even. Who hasn't?
Quote from: Brownie on October 16, 2017, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Brownie on October 16, 2017, 12:41:33 PM
I can't defend the decisions and this weekend was not Joe's best effort, but give me a break... you want to fire Joe Maddon, a manager whose regular season record is 99 games over .500 in three seasons with the Cubs and who has won 39% of the franchise's postseason games and 67 percent of its playoff series?
The Cubs stole Games 1 and 3 vs. Washington. CJ Edwards made one mistake or they would have won Game 2 as well. That series was as physically and mentally draining as you can get in a 5-game series.
The fortunate thing is these weren't elimination games.
I get it, but as Cubs fans one thing we're going to need to do is stop comparing what this team does to team history and saying "see it can't be that bad." Expectations have been raised, I don't give a shit if he's better than Jim Lefebvre. The % of franchise postseason wins he's managed is irrelevant. The only question that should ever be asked is "could the Cubs hire a manager that gives them a better chance of winning the next world series than Joe." I'm actually not sure if the answer is yes right now, but I know it's not wrong to ask.
It's not a question of whether you employer can fire you and replace you if they find someone who'd be better and more willing to do your job, especially if they pay you whatever they are obligated to. It's a question of whether doing so when you have achieved every measurable objective, have the support of your direct reports, and have otherwise exceeded expectations is good for the organizational culture. He's made tactical errors, major ones even. Who hasn't?
See those are fair questions to ask, TJ. I'm honestly not sure if they'd get better by firing him, I just think another postseason of miscues might start to tilt the scales, my point was one way or the other his place in Cubs history is irrelevant, if he's not the best man for the job now it doesn't matter what he once did.
Quote from: Brownie on October 16, 2017, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Brownie on October 16, 2017, 12:41:33 PM
I can't defend the decisions and this weekend was not Joe's best effort, but give me a break... you want to fire Joe Maddon, a manager whose regular season record is 99 games over .500 in three seasons with the Cubs and who has won 39% of the franchise's postseason games and 67 percent of its playoff series?
The Cubs stole Games 1 and 3 vs. Washington. CJ Edwards made one mistake or they would have won Game 2 as well. That series was as physically and mentally draining as you can get in a 5-game series.
The fortunate thing is these weren't elimination games.
I get it, but as Cubs fans one thing we're going to need to do is stop comparing what this team does to team history and saying "see it can't be that bad." Expectations have been raised, I don't give a shit if he's better than Jim Lefebvre. The % of franchise postseason wins he's managed is irrelevant. The only question that should ever be asked is "could the Cubs hire a manager that gives them a better chance of winning the next world series than Joe." I'm actually not sure if the answer is yes right now, but I know it's not wrong to ask.
It's not a question of whether you employer can fire you and replace you if they find someone who'd be better and more willing to do your job, especially if they pay you whatever they are obligated to. It's a question of whether doing so when you have achieved every measurable objective, have the support of your direct reports, and have otherwise exceeded expectations is good for the organizational culture. He's made tactical errors, major ones even. Who hasn't?
This is the "Process vs. Outcomes" argument. If I underwrite my loans really shitty, but the clients still make all the payments on the loan, it doesn't mean I've done a good job. It means I got lucky.
What's so disappointing about Maddon is that he doesn't even follow his own rules sometimes. Case in point, only bringing in Lester last year in Game 7 in a clean inning, yet didn't do that. Wild pitch, runs scored, but they won the game.
Did Joe do a good job last year in that game? No. Did they win? Yes.
I don't think Joe has earned a ticket out of town. I just wish he'd follow through on certain decisions for pre-game tactics once the game actually starts.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 16, 2017, 02:24:33 PM
Quote from: Brownie on October 16, 2017, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: SKO on October 16, 2017, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Brownie on October 16, 2017, 12:41:33 PM
I can't defend the decisions and this weekend was not Joe's best effort, but give me a break... you want to fire Joe Maddon, a manager whose regular season record is 99 games over .500 in three seasons with the Cubs and who has won 39% of the franchise's postseason games and 67 percent of its playoff series?
The Cubs stole Games 1 and 3 vs. Washington. CJ Edwards made one mistake or they would have won Game 2 as well. That series was as physically and mentally draining as you can get in a 5-game series.
The fortunate thing is these weren't elimination games.
I get it, but as Cubs fans one thing we're going to need to do is stop comparing what this team does to team history and saying "see it can't be that bad." Expectations have been raised, I don't give a shit if he's better than Jim Lefebvre. The % of franchise postseason wins he's managed is irrelevant. The only question that should ever be asked is "could the Cubs hire a manager that gives them a better chance of winning the next world series than Joe." I'm actually not sure if the answer is yes right now, but I know it's not wrong to ask.
It's not a question of whether you employer can fire you and replace you if they find someone who'd be better and more willing to do your job, especially if they pay you whatever they are obligated to. It's a question of whether doing so when you have achieved every measurable objective, have the support of your direct reports, and have otherwise exceeded expectations is good for the organizational culture. He's made tactical errors, major ones even. Who hasn't?
This is the "Process vs. Outcomes" argument. If I underwrite my loans really shitty, but the clients still make all the payments on the loan, it doesn't mean I've done a good job. It means I got lucky.
What's so disappointing about Maddon is that he doesn't even follow his own rules sometimes. Case in point, only bringing in Lester last year in Game 7 in a clean inning, yet didn't do that. Wild pitch, runs scored, but they won the game.
Did Joe do a good job last year in that game? No. Did they win? Yes.
I don't think Joe has earned a ticket out of town. I just wish he'd follow through on certain decisions for pre-game tactics once the game actually starts.
But that example also would be evidence that's he's not so rigid as to be completely inflexible when the game situation warrants it, whether it was the right call or not. We also don't really know what was exactly said...he could have told Lester that odds are he would enter a clean inning but, if the situation arose, would he be comfortable coming into the game in the middle of an inning.
By far the more egregious error was leaving Schwarber and Happ on the bench (what the fuck did Happ do to lose so much playing time) while Alomora flailed away against the Dodgers' bullpen. By the way, not a single pinch hitter last night, huh?
Interesting theory (https://medium.com/joeblogs/the-mind-of-maddon-4cb5cc6ae793), but if that was Joe's thinking, I think he's being too cute by half.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 17, 2017, 12:31:20 AM
Interesting theory (https://medium.com/joeblogs/the-mind-of-maddon-4cb5cc6ae793), but if that was Joe's thinking, I think he's being too cute by half.
If Joe really wanted to rest and regroup to focus on the home games he should have started Lackey in the first game.
Quote from: Tony on October 17, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 17, 2017, 12:31:20 AM
Interesting theory (https://medium.com/joeblogs/the-mind-of-maddon-4cb5cc6ae793), but if that was Joe's thinking, I think he's being too cute by half.
If Joe really wanted to rest and regroup to focus on the home games he should have started Lackey in the first game.
Yeah, that's why I don't buy this. Make Lackey go 6/7 against Kershaw no matter what, start a fully rested Quintana who can hopefully go 6+ and thus avoid the bullpen problems in G2.
There's only two answers here: Joe fucked up, or Wade is hurt and Joe is trying not to tell anyone that because gamesmanship, I guess.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2017, 09:05:35 AM
Quote from: Tony on October 17, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 17, 2017, 12:31:20 AM
Interesting theory (https://medium.com/joeblogs/the-mind-of-maddon-4cb5cc6ae793), but if that was Joe's thinking, I think he's being too cute by half.
If Joe really wanted to rest and regroup to focus on the home games he should have started Lackey in the first game.
Yeah, that's why I don't buy this. Make Lackey go 6/7 against Kershaw no matter what, start a fully rested Quintana who can hopefully go 6+ and thus avoid the bullpen problems in G2.
There's only two answers here: Joe fucked up, or Wade is hurt and Joe is trying not to tell anyone that because gamesmanship, I guess.
Three: Both.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2017, 09:05:35 AM
Quote from: Tony on October 17, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 17, 2017, 12:31:20 AM
Interesting theory (https://medium.com/joeblogs/the-mind-of-maddon-4cb5cc6ae793), but if that was Joe's thinking, I think he's being too cute by half.
If Joe really wanted to rest and regroup to focus on the home games he should have started Lackey in the first game.
Yeah, that's why I don't buy this. Make Lackey go 6/7 against Kershaw no matter what, start a fully rested Quintana who can hopefully go 6+ and thus avoid the bullpen problems in G2.
There's only two answers here: Joe fucked up, or Wade is hurt and Joe is trying not to tell anyone that because gamesmanship, I guess.
I agree with this.
Quote from: SKO on October 17, 2017, 09:05:35 AM
Quote from: Tony on October 17, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 17, 2017, 12:31:20 AM
Interesting theory (https://medium.com/joeblogs/the-mind-of-maddon-4cb5cc6ae793), but if that was Joe's thinking, I think he's being too cute by half.
If Joe really wanted to rest and regroup to focus on the home games he should have started Lackey in the first game.
Yeah, that's why I don't buy this. Make Lackey go 6/7 against Kershaw no matter what, start a fully rested Quintana who can hopefully go 6+ and thus avoid the bullpen problems in G2.
There's only two answers here: Joe fucked up, or Wade is hurt and Joe is trying not to tell anyone that because gamesmanship, I guess.
Further, there's something to be said for not being afraid to lose a game, but in short series that's not a luxury that Joe would have had had this been a mid-August series at the tail-end of a 9-game west coast trip and the middle of a 25 games in 24 game stretch that is common that time of year. In that case, sure, pack it in, get Davis rested and come back for the homestand with St. Louis, Milwaukee and Colorado healthy and rested.
Also, I'm not sure that Yasiel Puig or Justin Turner are feeling the weight of the world on their shoulders. 29 years should be the mean wait given the number of teams in the league.[
Quote from: Brownie on October 17, 2017, 10:46:23 AM
29 years should be the mean wait given the number of teams in the league.[
Um. Ok?
Joe's plan to fix the offense: Start Zobrist and Heyward again. What could go wrong!
How the fuck did Happ get so far into the doghouse?
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 17, 2017, 05:39:24 PM
Joe's plan to fix the offense: Start Zobrist and Heyward again. What could go wrong!
Anytime you can start three guys with absolutely no fucking power with the wind blowing out, gotta do it
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 17, 2017, 06:05:18 PM
How the fuck did Happ get so far into the doghouse?
That play in CF may explain at least some of that...
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 17, 2017, 11:11:59 PM
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 17, 2017, 06:05:18 PM
How the fuck did Happ get so far into the doghouse?
That play in CF may explain at least some of that...
He should start at 2B. He can ground out just as well as Zobrist can!
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 17, 2017, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 17, 2017, 11:11:59 PM
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 17, 2017, 06:05:18 PM
How the fuck did Happ get so far into the doghouse?
That play in CF may explain at least some of that...
He should start at 2B. He can ground out just as well as Zobrist can!
Or he can play a corner OF spot. Either way Zobrist is also a bad defender who misplayed a ball so
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on October 17, 2017, 11:11:59 PM
Quote from: D. Doluntap on October 17, 2017, 06:05:18 PM
How the fuck did Happ get so far into the doghouse?
That play in CF may explain at least some of that...
I'm still not sure what happened there. Did he not realise he had the ball? Did he realise he'd caught it but not realise that he'd dropped it? Fucking bizarre.
Regarding Happ, Joe has to get smarter on his double switches. Last night, he let Jay hit and the inning ended on Jay's GIDP. He immediately double switched Jay out for Happ to bring in Edwards batting in Jay's spot. Now, without the double switch, Edwards is due up third in the seventh. Joe made a major mistake here.
Either: A) Pinch hit for Jay with Happ with a runner on and one out so Happ faces a righty; or B) Leave Jay in and save Happ to pinch hit for Edwards in the 7th. There's no way Joe was letting Edwards go two innings.
Bad, bad, bad.
What I wouldn't give for an hour with Theo to hear, unfiltered, what he really thinks of Joe's moves this postseason. The kind of stuff he says when only Jed is around and they've had a few.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 18, 2017, 08:40:02 AM
Regarding Happ, Joe has to get smarter on his double switches. Last night, he let Jay hit and the inning ended on Jay's GIDP. He immediately double switched Jay out for Happ to bring in Edwards batting in Jay's spot. Now, without the double switch, Edwards is due up third in the seventh. Joe made a major mistake here.
Either: A) Pinch hit for Jay with Happ with a runner on and one out so Happ faces a righty; or B) Leave Jay in and save Happ to pinch hit for Edwards in the 7th. There's no way Joe was letting Edwards go two innings.
Bad, bad, bad.
I will say I have this weird feeling that Maddon sees the usage of the double-switch as some sign of surefire in-game managerial tactical gamesmanship which he heard about during all of his years as an American league manager and something that he just couldn't wait to get his paws on, even if the double-switch is, in reality, just a logical device that can be used when you fully expect or need your reliever to go 1+innings. It seems any time Joe makes a pitching change he can't help but do it alongside a double-switch and it also seems that he's gotten so cute with it that he has on occasion left the team in a worse position to win the game (i.e. earlier in the playoffs--can't remember which game--when he somehow managed to double-switch both Almora and Heyward out of a close game).
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on October 18, 2017, 11:44:19 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on October 18, 2017, 08:40:02 AM
Regarding Happ, Joe has to get smarter on his double switches. Last night, he let Jay hit and the inning ended on Jay's GIDP. He immediately double switched Jay out for Happ to bring in Edwards batting in Jay's spot. Now, without the double switch, Edwards is due up third in the seventh. Joe made a major mistake here.
Either: A) Pinch hit for Jay with Happ with a runner on and one out so Happ faces a righty; or B) Leave Jay in and save Happ to pinch hit for Edwards in the 7th. There's no way Joe was letting Edwards go two innings.
Bad, bad, bad.
I will say I have this weird feeling that Maddon sees the usage of the double-switch as some sign of surefire in-game managerial tactical gamesmanship which he heard about during all of his years as an American league manager and something that he just couldn't wait to get his paws on, even if the double-switch is, in reality, just a logical device that can be used when you fully expect or need your reliever to go 1+innings. It seems any time Joe makes a pitching change he can't help but do it alongside a double-switch and it also seems that he's gotten so cute with it that he has on occasion left the team in a worse position to win the game (i.e. earlier in the playoffs--can't remember which game--when he somehow managed to double-switch both Almora and Heyward out of a close game).
It could be a byproduct of the embarrassment of riches he has in terms of players who can play multiple positions (Zobrist, Happ, LaStella, Baez, Bryant; even Schwarber, Contreras and Avila). Smoke 'em if you got 'em, I guess.
It was nice to let MLB let the Big XII crew take over umpiring this game for bit, then confused the LA Dodgers for Texa$$$
Quote from: pisomojado8 on October 18, 2017, 10:52:36 PM
It was nice to let MLB let the Big XII crew take over umpiring this game for bit, then confused the LA Dodgers for Texa$$$
What
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 18, 2017, 11:23:59 AM
What I wouldn't give for an hour with Theo to hear, unfiltered, what he really thinks of Joe's moves this postseason. The kind of stuff he says when only Jed is around and they've had a few.
Based on what we know about Theo, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be any different if Joe was in the room as well.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 19, 2017, 05:04:46 AM
Quote from: pisomojado8 on October 18, 2017, 10:52:36 PM
It was nice to let MLB let the Big XII crew take over umpiring this game for bit, then confused the LA Dodgers for Texa$$$
What
Jokes made from a POV not shared by the majority are hard to pull off.
Maybe a generalized PAC12 referee crew - widely recongnized as having terrible moments - reference would have landed better?
Quote from: J Rod on October 19, 2017, 08:20:41 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 19, 2017, 05:04:46 AM
Quote from: pisomojado8 on October 18, 2017, 10:52:36 PM
It was nice to let MLB let the Big XII crew take over umpiring this game for bit, then confused the LA Dodgers for Texa$$$
What
Jokes made from a POV not shared by the majority are hard to pull off.
Maybe a generalized PAC12 referee crew - widely recongnized as having terrible moments - reference would have landed better?
maybe they were really Bo Ryan on Rt 41?
Quote from: Oleg on October 19, 2017, 08:29:49 AM
Quote from: J Rod on October 19, 2017, 08:20:41 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 19, 2017, 05:04:46 AM
Quote from: pisomojado8 on October 18, 2017, 10:52:36 PM
It was nice to let MLB let the Big XII crew take over umpiring this game for bit, then confused the LA Dodgers for Texa$$$
What
Jokes made from a POV not shared by the majority are hard to pull off.
Maybe a generalized PAC12 referee crew - widely recongnized as having terrible moments - reference would have landed better?
maybe they were really Bo Ryan on Rt 41?
Now that's a POV we can
all get behind.
The third base umpire, Cooper, overrules a strike call made by the homeplate umpire, and calls what should have been a third strike a foul ball. Something that I have never seen before. Then he refuses to look at the replay which clearly showed that the ball was not touched by the bat. Although he was not obliged to look at the replay, since he already bent the rules by making the call, what's the harm in setting the record straight and taking a peek? Fortunately, Wade Davis made the whole thing moot by striking Granderson out with the next pitch. Nonetheless, I think that Cooper should have some kind of ass-kicking.
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
Quote from: SKO on May 23, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
His loyalty to Heyward led him to compound this mistake by not flip-flopping Edwards into his spot afterward. Almora was going to lead off the 8th against Miller anyway, and when Cleveland's leadoff hitter hit a flare that Happ let drop, it struck me as stupid that Almora wasn't already out there (Edwards pitched around that and another single but the point remains). Managers friggin' love to flip-flop, even when they don't have to—and Joe really didn't have to there because he likely wasn't planning on Edwards going 2 innings anyway, but Joe is chief among the needless flip-flop practitioners as it is; it's almost as if he went out of his way *not* to flip-flop there.
The same guy who demoted Starlin Castro and then managed him to great things won't do the same with Heyward, who it would seem would be easier to manage through this as he seems more mature than Castro. If it's any consolation I think that day is approaching soon, but dang it's frustrating to have to watch it play out.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on May 23, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 23, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
His loyalty to Heyward led him to compound this mistake by not flip-flopping Edwards into his spot afterward. Almora was going to lead off the 8th against Miller anyway, and when Cleveland's leadoff hitter hit a flare that Happ let drop, it struck me as stupid that Almora wasn't already out there (Edwards pitched around that and another single but the point remains). Managers friggin' love to flip-flop, even when they don't have to—and Joe really didn't have to there because he likely wasn't planning on Edwards going 2 innings anyway, but Joe is chief among the needless flip-flop practitioners as it is; it's almost as if he went out of his way *not* to flip-flop there.
The same guy who demoted Starlin Castro and then managed him to great things won't do the same with Heyward, who it would seem would be easier to manage through this as he seems more mature than Castro. If it's any consolation I think that day is approaching soon, but dang it's frustrating to have to watch it play out.
Last year he left Heyward in to face Tony Watson late in a game when Almora was available and they lost, then later that season he let Heyward face Felipe Vazquez (Felipe Romero at the time) in a 1 run game in the 9th. The faith he shows in Heyward is utterly baffling, and considering the division race is probably going to be closer this year than it was in either of the previous two years giving Heyward the chance to embarrass himself in hope that it pays off down the road vs trying to win the fucking game is more grating than ever.
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on May 23, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 23, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
His loyalty to Heyward led him to compound this mistake by not flip-flopping Edwards into his spot afterward. Almora was going to lead off the 8th against Miller anyway, and when Cleveland's leadoff hitter hit a flare that Happ let drop, it struck me as stupid that Almora wasn't already out there (Edwards pitched around that and another single but the point remains). Managers friggin' love to flip-flop, even when they don't have to—and Joe really didn't have to there because he likely wasn't planning on Edwards going 2 innings anyway, but Joe is chief among the needless flip-flop practitioners as it is; it's almost as if he went out of his way *not* to flip-flop there.
The same guy who demoted Starlin Castro and then managed him to great things won't do the same with Heyward, who it would seem would be easier to manage through this as he seems more mature than Castro. If it's any consolation I think that day is approaching soon, but dang it's frustrating to have to watch it play out.
Last year he left Heyward in to face Tony Watson late in a game when Almora was available and they lost, then later that season he let Heyward face Felipe Vazquez (Felipe Romero at the time) in a 1 run game in the 9th. The faith he shows in Heyward is utterly baffling, and considering the division race is probably going to be closer this year than it was in either of the previous two years giving Heyward the chance to embarrass himself in hope that it pays off down the road vs trying to win the fucking game is more grating than ever.
I'm glad you guys are able to find common ground...no one mention Addison Russell.
Quote from: Oleg on May 24, 2018, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on May 23, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 23, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
His loyalty to Heyward led him to compound this mistake by not flip-flopping Edwards into his spot afterward. Almora was going to lead off the 8th against Miller anyway, and when Cleveland's leadoff hitter hit a flare that Happ let drop, it struck me as stupid that Almora wasn't already out there (Edwards pitched around that and another single but the point remains). Managers friggin' love to flip-flop, even when they don't have to—and Joe really didn't have to there because he likely wasn't planning on Edwards going 2 innings anyway, but Joe is chief among the needless flip-flop practitioners as it is; it's almost as if he went out of his way *not* to flip-flop there.
The same guy who demoted Starlin Castro and then managed him to great things won't do the same with Heyward, who it would seem would be easier to manage through this as he seems more mature than Castro. If it's any consolation I think that day is approaching soon, but dang it's frustrating to have to watch it play out.
Last year he left Heyward in to face Tony Watson late in a game when Almora was available and they lost, then later that season he let Heyward face Felipe Vazquez (Felipe Romero at the time) in a 1 run game in the 9th. The faith he shows in Heyward is utterly baffling, and considering the division race is probably going to be closer this year than it was in either of the previous two years giving Heyward the chance to embarrass himself in hope that it pays off down the road vs trying to win the fucking game is more grating than ever.
I'm glad you guys are able to find common ground...no one mention Addison Russell.
The guy whose OPS is now lower than it was as a rookie?
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 02:17:09 PM
Quote from: Oleg on May 24, 2018, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on May 23, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 23, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
His loyalty to Heyward led him to compound this mistake by not flip-flopping Edwards into his spot afterward. Almora was going to lead off the 8th against Miller anyway, and when Cleveland's leadoff hitter hit a flare that Happ let drop, it struck me as stupid that Almora wasn't already out there (Edwards pitched around that and another single but the point remains). Managers friggin' love to flip-flop, even when they don't have to—and Joe really didn't have to there because he likely wasn't planning on Edwards going 2 innings anyway, but Joe is chief among the needless flip-flop practitioners as it is; it's almost as if he went out of his way *not* to flip-flop there.
The same guy who demoted Starlin Castro and then managed him to great things won't do the same with Heyward, who it would seem would be easier to manage through this as he seems more mature than Castro. If it's any consolation I think that day is approaching soon, but dang it's frustrating to have to watch it play out.
Last year he left Heyward in to face Tony Watson late in a game when Almora was available and they lost, then later that season he let Heyward face Felipe Vazquez (Felipe Romero at the time) in a 1 run game in the 9th. The faith he shows in Heyward is utterly baffling, and considering the division race is probably going to be closer this year than it was in either of the previous two years giving Heyward the chance to embarrass himself in hope that it pays off down the road vs trying to win the fucking game is more grating than ever.
I'm glad you guys are able to find common ground...no one mention Addison Russell.
The guy whose OPS is now lower than it was as a rookie?
In the fantasy world where the Cubs can get Machado without giving up Russell or Happ, and Maddon finally gives up on Heyward, Machado would basically replace Heyward in the everyday lineup. Machado at 3B and Bryant in RF.
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2018, 02:57:23 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 02:17:09 PM
Quote from: Oleg on May 24, 2018, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on May 23, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 23, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
His loyalty to Heyward led him to compound this mistake by not flip-flopping Edwards into his spot afterward. Almora was going to lead off the 8th against Miller anyway, and when Cleveland's leadoff hitter hit a flare that Happ let drop, it struck me as stupid that Almora wasn't already out there (Edwards pitched around that and another single but the point remains). Managers friggin' love to flip-flop, even when they don't have to—and Joe really didn't have to there because he likely wasn't planning on Edwards going 2 innings anyway, but Joe is chief among the needless flip-flop practitioners as it is; it's almost as if he went out of his way *not* to flip-flop there.
The same guy who demoted Starlin Castro and then managed him to great things won't do the same with Heyward, who it would seem would be easier to manage through this as he seems more mature than Castro. If it's any consolation I think that day is approaching soon, but dang it's frustrating to have to watch it play out.
Last year he left Heyward in to face Tony Watson late in a game when Almora was available and they lost, then later that season he let Heyward face Felipe Vazquez (Felipe Romero at the time) in a 1 run game in the 9th. The faith he shows in Heyward is utterly baffling, and considering the division race is probably going to be closer this year than it was in either of the previous two years giving Heyward the chance to embarrass himself in hope that it pays off down the road vs trying to win the fucking game is more grating than ever.
I'm glad you guys are able to find common ground...no one mention Addison Russell.
The guy whose OPS is now lower than it was as a rookie?
In the fantasy world where the Cubs can get Machado without giving up Russell or Happ, and Maddon finally gives up on Heyward, Machado would basically replace Heyward in the everyday lineup. Machado at 3B and Bryant in RF.
Baltimore doesn't make a deal without Russell. Who else would get thrown in would depend on who else is in the bidding...the D-Backs falling back to the pack means the Dodgers might be back in if they can throw enough prospects at the Os to get them to eat some of Machado's salary.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on May 24, 2018, 04:19:36 PMBaltimore doesn't make a deal without Russell.
That settles it, Russell's out of the deal.
Quote from: R-V on May 24, 2018, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on May 24, 2018, 04:19:36 PMBaltimore doesn't make a deal without Russell.
That settles it, Russell's out of the deal.
Cubs get:
Manny Machado
Orioles get:
Jason Heyward
David Ross
Manny Alexander
Chili Davis
Joe’s RV
Jerry Hairston
Mike Fontenot
Todd Ricketts
Please RT
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 02:17:09 PM
Quote from: Oleg on May 24, 2018, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on May 23, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 23, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
His loyalty to Heyward led him to compound this mistake by not flip-flopping Edwards into his spot afterward. Almora was going to lead off the 8th against Miller anyway, and when Cleveland's leadoff hitter hit a flare that Happ let drop, it struck me as stupid that Almora wasn't already out there (Edwards pitched around that and another single but the point remains). Managers friggin' love to flip-flop, even when they don't have to—and Joe really didn't have to there because he likely wasn't planning on Edwards going 2 innings anyway, but Joe is chief among the needless flip-flop practitioners as it is; it's almost as if he went out of his way *not* to flip-flop there.
The same guy who demoted Starlin Castro and then managed him to great things won't do the same with Heyward, who it would seem would be easier to manage through this as he seems more mature than Castro. If it's any consolation I think that day is approaching soon, but dang it's frustrating to have to watch it play out.
Last year he left Heyward in to face Tony Watson late in a game when Almora was available and they lost, then later that season he let Heyward face Felipe Vazquez (Felipe Romero at the time) in a 1 run game in the 9th. The faith he shows in Heyward is utterly baffling, and considering the division race is probably going to be closer this year than it was in either of the previous two years giving Heyward the chance to embarrass himself in hope that it pays off down the road vs trying to win the fucking game is more grating than ever.
I'm glad you guys are able to find common ground...no one mention Addison Russell.
The guy whose OPS is now lower than it was as a rookie?
You're fucking special.
Quote from: Oleg on May 25, 2018, 08:45:52 AM
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 02:17:09 PM
Quote from: Oleg on May 24, 2018, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 24, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on May 23, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 23, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
HOW in the fuck do you let Jason Heyward face Andrew Miller with Almora and Zobrist on the bench
His loyalty to Heyward led him to compound this mistake by not flip-flopping Edwards into his spot afterward. Almora was going to lead off the 8th against Miller anyway, and when Cleveland's leadoff hitter hit a flare that Happ let drop, it struck me as stupid that Almora wasn't already out there (Edwards pitched around that and another single but the point remains). Managers friggin' love to flip-flop, even when they don't have to—and Joe really didn't have to there because he likely wasn't planning on Edwards going 2 innings anyway, but Joe is chief among the needless flip-flop practitioners as it is; it's almost as if he went out of his way *not* to flip-flop there.
The same guy who demoted Starlin Castro and then managed him to great things won't do the same with Heyward, who it would seem would be easier to manage through this as he seems more mature than Castro. If it's any consolation I think that day is approaching soon, but dang it's frustrating to have to watch it play out.
Last year he left Heyward in to face Tony Watson late in a game when Almora was available and they lost, then later that season he let Heyward face Felipe Vazquez (Felipe Romero at the time) in a 1 run game in the 9th. The faith he shows in Heyward is utterly baffling, and considering the division race is probably going to be closer this year than it was in either of the previous two years giving Heyward the chance to embarrass himself in hope that it pays off down the road vs trying to win the fucking game is more grating than ever.
I'm glad you guys are able to find common ground...no one mention Addison Russell.
The guy whose OPS is now lower than it was as a rookie?
You're fucking special.
well the guy with a 90 OPS+ in 1675 major league plate appearances isn't
dude fuckin loves bunts
Quote from: SKO on May 25, 2018, 03:19:18 PM
dude fuckin loves bunts
But yet he can't PH a starter for Farrell to get a bunt down??? I'm confused.
It was a fun win, but man, if you're going to use Morrow to close it down when you're up 6, why not play for 1 there?
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on June 02, 2018, 10:22:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on May 25, 2018, 03:19:18 PM
dude fuckin loves bunts
But yet he can't PH a starter for Farrell to get a bunt down??? I'm confused.
It was a fun win, but man, if you're going to use Morrow to close it down when you're up 6, why not play for 1 there?
Morrow only came in to close because he was already up and warm. Or are you suggesting that Joe should have known the Cubs were going to have a 6-spot in the 14th inning, so he should have had Strop warming up there?
Besides, I'm guessing at that point their best squeeze bunter (Jon Lester) was already back at the hotel.
Amazingly, Dave Roberts knows how to use his closer in a one-run game...
If Morrow isn't hurt Joe can go fuck himself forever.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
If Morrow isn't hurt Joe can go fuck himself forever.
Joe does not have to fuck himself forever.
For now.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2018, 04:06:12 PM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
If Morrow isn't hurt Joe can go fuck himself forever.
Joe does not have to fuck himself forever.
For now.
I'm sure he's grateful.
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2018, 04:06:12 PM
Quote from: SKO on June 19, 2018, 03:54:06 PM
If Morrow isn't hurt Joe can go fuck himself forever.
Joe does not have to fuck himself forever.
For now.
You should know better....
Also to Joe's credit I don't think he'd ever do whatever the fuck Roberts was doing last night when he decided with a runner on third and no out to walk the guy who has struck out 29% of the time in his career and go after the guy who strikes out half that much and is hitting .325
Quote from: SKO on June 20, 2018, 08:01:04 AM
Also to Joe's credit I don't think he'd ever do whatever the fuck Roberts was doing last night when he decided with a runner on third and no out to walk the guy who has struck out 29% of the time in his career and go after the guy who strikes out half that much and is hitting .325
Seriously, what the fuck was that, Galaxy Brain Dave? I was 100% convinced Almora would end it there.
when the bases are loaded and you absolutely, positively gotta get an out...Brian Duensing
Bump.
Quote from: D. Doluntap on September 14, 2018, 12:55:17 PM
Bump.
Here in the Bay Area there is grumbling about Bruce Bochy, who managed the Giants to 3 world Series titles in 5 seasons. But right now the Giants are below .500 and the fans are saying "What have you done for me lately?" I don't think that he is burned out. I think that it is attributable to the facts that
the best player on the team played the season with an injury (until he gave up and is trying to recuperate) and their best pitcher has succumbed to his age.
Quote from: CBStew on September 14, 2018, 01:10:36 PM
Quote from: D. Doluntap on September 14, 2018, 12:55:17 PM
Bump.
Here in the Bay Area there is grumbling about Bruce Bochy, who managed the Giants to 3 world Series titles in 5 seasons. But right now the Giants are below .500 and the fans are saying "What have you done for me lately?" I don't think that he is burned out. I think that it is attributable to the facts that
the best player on the team played the season with an injury (until he gave up and is trying to recuperate) and their best pitcher has succumbed to his age.
I love Joe, but having Strop hit there was fucking weird, especially given the offensive cold streak.
Quote from: D. Doluntap on September 14, 2018, 01:15:17 PM
Quote from: CBStew on September 14, 2018, 01:10:36 PM
Quote from: D. Doluntap on September 14, 2018, 12:55:17 PM
Bump.
Here in the Bay Area there is grumbling about Bruce Bochy, who managed the Giants to 3 world Series titles in 5 seasons. But right now the Giants are below .500 and the fans are saying "What have you done for me lately?" I don't think that he is burned out. I think that it is attributable to the facts that
the best player on the team played the season with an injury (until he gave up and is trying to recuperate) and their best pitcher has succumbed to his age.
I love Joe, but having Strop hit there was fucking weird, especially given the offensive cold streak.
It had something to do with the condition of the arms in the bullpen.
Hoo boy. Game isn't over, so it could still all work out, but he's gonna be questioned after this one.
I'm wondering if Maddon's style and outlook is perfect for a young team facing the pressures of toppling a historic championship drought, but not necessarily a perfect fit for a team trying to build a Cubs Way of winning for years to come.
I have a feeling that Joe will try to go out on top next year, and will take some kind of position in the Cubs front office, paving the way toward hiring a replacement who can help the Cubs take the next step toward perennial contention.
Quote from: Canadouche on November 06, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
I'm wondering if Maddon's style and outlook is perfect for a young team facing the pressures of toppling a historic championship drought, but not necessarily a perfect fit for a team trying to build a Cubs Way of winning for years to come.
I have a feeling that Joe will try to go out on top next year, and will take some kind of position in the Cubs front office, paving the way toward hiring a replacement who can help the Cubs take the next step toward perennial contention.
He's going to win it all, go out on top, then replace Renteria in Bridgeport.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 07, 2018, 08:43:49 AM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 06, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
I'm wondering if Maddon's style and outlook is perfect for a young team facing the pressures of toppling a historic championship drought, but not necessarily a perfect fit for a team trying to build a Cubs Way of winning for years to come.
I have a feeling that Joe will try to go out on top next year, and will take some kind of position in the Cubs front office, paving the way toward hiring a replacement who can help the Cubs take the next step toward perennial contention.
He's going to win it all, go out on top, then replace Renteria in Bridgeport.
And then we get Cubs Manager, David Ross?
Assuming Joe doesn't accept a promotion into the front office, he's on track to become the 5th winningest manager in Cubs history this coming year. Joe will surpass Joe McCarthy sometime in 2019. Only Charlie Grimm, and Hall of Famers McCarthy, Cap Anson, Frank Chance, and Leo Durocher are ahead of him. In his short time with the team, he's surpassed Riggleman, Baker, and Pinella, who are directly below him on the list.
Quote from: Canadouche on November 13, 2018, 01:59:21 PM
Assuming Joe doesn't accept a promotion into the front office, he's on track to become the 5th winningest manager in Cubs history this coming year. Joe will surpass Joe McCarthy sometime in 2019. Only Charlie Grimm, and Hall of Famers McCarthy, Cap Anson, Frank Chance, and Leo Durocher are ahead of him. In his short time with the team, he's surpassed Riggleman, Baker, and Pinella, who are directly below him on the list.
Can anybody here imagine Joe Maddon being happy in Theo Epstein's shadow? He's going to want a gig where there are reporters around him each day.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 13, 2018, 03:26:56 PM
Quote from: Canadouche on November 13, 2018, 01:59:21 PM
Assuming Joe doesn't accept a promotion into the front office, he's on track to become the 5th winningest manager in Cubs history this coming year. Joe will surpass Joe McCarthy sometime in 2019. Only Charlie Grimm, and Hall of Famers McCarthy, Cap Anson, Frank Chance, and Leo Durocher are ahead of him. In his short time with the team, he's surpassed Riggleman, Baker, and Pinella, who are directly below him on the list.
Can anybody here imagine Joe Maddon being happy in Theo Epstein's shadow? He's going to want a gig where there are reporters around him each day.
Everyone knows "Joe Maddon: Live From the Cousin Eddie" is coming to Netflix in April 2020.
It would have made sense to pinch hit for Hendricks in the top of the sixth if Bote had gotten on base, and you had two on and no outs -- you really need to get a run there. But when he hit a two run homer, he should have stuck with Hendricks. Instead, he needed to get four innings from the pen, and had to bring Strop -- who he doesn't trust in high leverage situations currently -- in with two on and one out in a one run game.
I realize the front office has handed him a shitty bullpen, but his management of it doesn't help.
Even if he waits an inning to pinch hit, he still probably ends up using Strop and they still lose.