Let's talk about some goddamn baseball, people.
Who is going to give Rich Hill a lot of money to watch him spend next year on the DL?
Who gives Cespedes the massive contract they should have just given him last year rather than wait and overpay him when he's another year older?
Will the White Sox sell, add, or once again just stand there doing nothing and hoping 85 wins fall into their laps and it works out?
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2016, 10:46:39 AM
Let's talk about some goddamn baseball, people.
Who is going to give Rich Hill a lot of money to watch him spend next year on the DL?
Who gives Cespedes the massive contract they should have just given him last year rather than wait and overpay him when he's another year older?
Will the White Sox sell, add, or once again just stand there doing nothing and hoping 85 wins fall into their laps and it works out?
White Sox are gonna trade for Miggy. Book it.
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2016, 10:46:39 AM
Let's talk about some goddamn baseball, people.
Who is going to give Rich Hill a lot of money to watch him spend next year on the DL?
Who gives Cespedes the massive contract they should have just given him last year rather than wait and overpay him when he's another year older?
Will the White Sox sell, add, or once again just stand there doing nothing and hoping 85 wins fall into their laps and it works out?
I could see questions 2 and 3 dovetailing nicely.
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2016, 10:55:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2016, 10:46:39 AM
Let's talk about some goddamn baseball, people.
Who is going to give Rich Hill a lot of money to watch him spend next year on the DL?
Who gives Cespedes the massive contract they should have just given him last year rather than wait and overpay him when he's another year older?
Will the White Sox sell, add, or once again just stand there doing nothing and hoping 85 wins fall into their laps and it works out?
White Sox are gonna trade for Miggy. Book it.
Montero or Cabrera?
Quote from: Saul Goodman on November 10, 2016, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2016, 10:55:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2016, 10:46:39 AM
Let's talk about some goddamn baseball, people.
Who is going to give Rich Hill a lot of money to watch him spend next year on the DL?
Who gives Cespedes the massive contract they should have just given him last year rather than wait and overpay him when he's another year older?
Will the White Sox sell, add, or once again just stand there doing nothing and hoping 85 wins fall into their laps and it works out?
White Sox are gonna trade for Miggy. Book it.
Montero or Cabrera?
YOU KNOW WHO I MEANT
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2016, 12:13:32 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on November 10, 2016, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2016, 10:55:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2016, 10:46:39 AM
Let's talk about some goddamn baseball, people.
Who is going to give Rich Hill a lot of money to watch him spend next year on the DL?
Who gives Cespedes the massive contract they should have just given him last year rather than wait and overpay him when he's another year older?
Will the White Sox sell, add, or once again just stand there doing nothing and hoping 85 wins fall into their laps and it works out?
White Sox are gonna trade for Miggy. Book it.
Montero or Cabrera?
YOU KNOW WHO I MEANT
Miggy Cancel from season 9 of
The Biggest Loser?
Quote from: Bort on November 10, 2016, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2016, 12:13:32 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on November 10, 2016, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: CT III on November 10, 2016, 10:55:06 AM
Quote from: SKO on November 10, 2016, 10:46:39 AM
Let's talk about some goddamn baseball, people.
Who is going to give Rich Hill a lot of money to watch him spend next year on the DL?
Who gives Cespedes the massive contract they should have just given him last year rather than wait and overpay him when he's another year older?
Will the White Sox sell, add, or once again just stand there doing nothing and hoping 85 wins fall into their laps and it works out?
White Sox are gonna trade for Miggy. Book it.
Montero or Cabrera?
YOU KNOW WHO I MEANT
Miggy Cancel from season 9 of The Biggest Loser?
I have no idea if that's a real person or not, but that name is fantastic.
Turns out that a friend of mine from high school has been working as a personal chef for some of the Cubs the past couple of years, including all of Hammel's meals this season.
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Turns out that a friend of mine from high school has been working as a personal chef for some of the Cubs the past couple of years, including all of Hammel's meals this season.
Was he responsible for the potato chips?
If so, I'd like to speak with him.
Quote from: PenFoe on November 14, 2016, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Turns out that a friend of mine from high school has been working as a personal chef for some of the Cubs the past couple of years, including all of Hammel's meals this season.
Was he responsible for the potato chips?
If so, I'd like to speak with him.
If Shitty's were still a thing, I'd certainly invite him. Very interesting fellow, former USMC and once delivered a poetry recitation to my imaginary college girlfriend. I want to say Jabberwocky, but it doesn't feel right. I'll have to check.
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on November 14, 2016, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Turns out that a friend of mine from high school has been working as a personal chef for some of the Cubs the past couple of years, including all of Hammel's meals this season.
Was he responsible for the potato chips?
If so, I'd like to speak with him.
If Shitty's were still a thing, I'd certainly invite him. Very interesting fellow, former USMC and once delivered a poetry recitation to my imaginary college girlfriend. I want to say Jabberwocky, but it doesn't feel right. I'll have to check.
"Wheez & the Jarhead" would be the greatest TV show ever.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 14, 2016, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on November 14, 2016, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Turns out that a friend of mine from high school has been working as a personal chef for some of the Cubs the past couple of years, including all of Hammel's meals this season.
Was he responsible for the potato chips?
If so, I'd like to speak with him.
If Shitty's were still a thing, I'd certainly invite him. Very interesting fellow, former USMC and once delivered a poetry recitation to my imaginary college girlfriend. I want to say Jabberwocky, but it doesn't feel right. I'll have to check.
"Wheez & the Jarhead" would be the greatest TV show ever.
It sounds brillig.
Quote from: CBStew on November 14, 2016, 08:19:15 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 14, 2016, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on November 14, 2016, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Turns out that a friend of mine from high school has been working as a personal chef for some of the Cubs the past couple of years, including all of Hammel's meals this season.
Was he responsible for the potato chips?
If so, I'd like to speak with him.
If Shitty's were still a thing, I'd certainly invite him. Very interesting fellow, former USMC and once delivered a poetry recitation to my imaginary college girlfriend. I want to say Jabberwocky, but it doesn't feel right. I'll have to check.
"Wheez & the Jarhead" would be the greatest TV show ever.
It sounds brillig.
Mimsy.
Quote from: Bort on November 14, 2016, 08:30:05 PM
Quote from: CBStew on November 14, 2016, 08:19:15 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 14, 2016, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on November 14, 2016, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Turns out that a friend of mine from high school has been working as a personal chef for some of the Cubs the past couple of years, including all of Hammel's meals this season.
Was he responsible for the potato chips?
If so, I'd like to speak with him.
If Shitty's were still a thing, I'd certainly invite him. Very interesting fellow, former USMC and once delivered a poetry recitation to my imaginary college girlfriend. I want to say Jabberwocky, but it doesn't feel right. I'll have to check.
"Wheez & the Jarhead" would be the greatest TV show ever.
It sounds brillig.
Mimsy.
Back to the borogrov
Quote from: CBStew on November 14, 2016, 08:32:56 PM
Quote from: Bort on November 14, 2016, 08:30:05 PM
Quote from: CBStew on November 14, 2016, 08:19:15 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 14, 2016, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: PenFoe on November 14, 2016, 04:49:03 PM
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Turns out that a friend of mine from high school has been working as a personal chef for some of the Cubs the past couple of years, including all of Hammel's meals this season.
Was he responsible for the potato chips?
If so, I'd like to speak with him.
If Shitty's were still a thing, I'd certainly invite him. Very interesting fellow, former USMC and once delivered a poetry recitation to my imaginary college girlfriend. I want to say Jabberwocky, but it doesn't feel right. I'll have to check.
"Wheez & the Jarhead" would be the greatest TV show ever.
It sounds brillig.
Mimsy.
Back to the borogrov
Calloo callay
So Dex is again testing FA. Cards rumored to be in the mix. Anywhere but there?
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on November 14, 2016, 09:09:19 PM
So Dex is again testing FA.
He was a three-squares client in 2015, BTW. And it was Jabberwocky.
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on November 14, 2016, 09:09:19 PM
So Dex is again testing FA. Cards rumored to be in the mix. Anywhere but there?
Sex Fowler deserves to get paid. If the Cardinals do, I'd be fine with it. He already got his Cubs ring, and there's no Cardinals season that could possibly match that.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on November 14, 2016, 10:04:24 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on November 14, 2016, 09:09:19 PM
So Dex is again testing FA. Cards rumored to be in the mix. Anywhere but there?
Sex Fowler deserves to get paid. If the Cardinals do, I'd be fine with it. He already got his Cubs ring, and there's no Cardinals season that could possibly match that.
I wouldn't, like, call him a Trader if he signed with them, but I'd still prefer he sign with literally anyone else.
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends them some highly rated prospects that fizzle out. The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick, Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends them some highly rated prospects that fizzle out. The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick, Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
And the Cards cough up a draft pick to the Cubs.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 11:59:50 AM
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends them some highly rated prospects that fizzle out. The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick, Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
And the Cards cough up a draft pick to the Cubs.
?
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 11:59:50 AM
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends them some highly rated prospects that fizzle out. The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick, Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on November 15, 2016, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 11:59:50 AM
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends them some highly rated prospects that fizzle out. The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick, Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
so is highlighting.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on November 15, 2016, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 11:59:50 AM
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends them some highly rated prospects that fizzle out. The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick, Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
so is highlighting.
So is highlighting.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on November 15, 2016, 12:07:17 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on November 15, 2016, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 11:59:50 AM
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends them some highly rated prospects that fizzle out. The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick, Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
so is highlighting.
So is highlighting.
You guys are forgetting the draft pick.
[quote tart Machine link=topic=9194.msg309422#msg309422 date=1479232790]
[/quote]
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends t author=Saul Goodman link=topic=9194.msg309439#msg309439 date=1479237662]
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on November 15, 2016, 12:07:17 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
[quote aut
so is highlighting.
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
[/quote]
So is highlighting.
[/quote]
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
[/quote]
t pick.
[/quote don't forget about the draft pick everyone]
Quote from: Eli on November 15, 2016, 01:41:33 PM
[quote tart Machine link=topic=9194.msg309422#msg309422 date=1479232790]
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends t author=Saul Goodman link=topic=9194.msg309439#msg309439 date=1479237662]
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on November 15, 2016, 12:07:17 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
[quote aut
so is highlighting.
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
[/quote]
So is highlighting.
[/quote]
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
[/quote]
t pick.
[/quote don't forget about the draft pick everyone]
[/quote]
Word.
[qoute author=Bort link=topic=9194.msg309444#msg309444 date=1479242396]
Quote from: Eli on November 15, 2016, 01:41:33 PM
[quote tart Machine link=topic=9194.msg309422#msg309422 date=1479232790]
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Quote from: Brownie on November 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
How about he signs with the Cardinals who overpay for him and he's the only player on St. Louis worth a damn this season. So as the Cardinals head to a 90-loss season (and while Heyward rediscovers the joy of hitting), Fowler is dealt to an American League team who makes the Cardinals take on much of Fowler's salary and sends t author=Saul Goodman link=topic=9194.msg309439#msg309439 date=1479237662]
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on November 15, 2016, 12:07:17 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on November 15, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
[quote aut
so is highlighting.
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
[/quote]
So is highlighting.
[/quote]
You guys are forgetting the drafhor=Cannonball Titcomb link=topic=9194.msg309426#msg309426 date=1479233054]
Quote from: Quality Shem some highly rated prospects that fizzle out.b] The Cubs draft some stud with the draft pick,[/b] Fowler finishes out his career somewhere else, and St. Louis enters a 25-year funk of teams that do not contend.
Reading iz hard.
[/quote]
t pick.
[/quote don't forget about the draft pick everyone]
[/quote]
Word.
[/quote
Thi.
We now have a new Greatest Thread Ever.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDRAFT PICK.
Lisa needs braces!
DRAFT PICK.
Lisa needs braces!
DRAFT PICK.
Quote from: Bort on November 15, 2016, 02:50:29 PM
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDRAFT PICK.
Lisa needs braces!
DRAFT PICK.
Lisa needs braces!
DRAFT PICK.
Quote from: Bort on November 15, 2016, 02:50:29 PM
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDRAFT PICK.
Lisa needs braces!
DRAFT PICK.
Lisa needs braces!
DRAFT PICK.
Sorry, I was distracted by the free keg of beer.
Quote from: Bort on November 15, 2016, 02:50:29 PM
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDRAFT PICK.
Lisa needs braces!
DRAFT PICK.
Lisa needs braces!
DRAFT PICK.
You guys are forgetting the drafhor.
There appears to be quite a defined split in the BBWAA between:
1. Informed writers who understand that it was close, but Justin Verlander was probably the best pitcher in the AL, with Porcello second.
2. Meatball HOLY SHIT DAT VALANDA GUY ONLY ONE SIXTEEN GAMES HE'S A BUM AND SHOULDA NEVER BEEN ON DA BALLOT MY FRENTS.
Still, he's sticking it to KAY TUPTON every night, so there's a limit to how much sympathy I can have for the bloke, to be honest.
Quote from: Wheezer on November 14, 2016, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: CubFaninHydePark on November 14, 2016, 09:09:19 PM
So Dex is again testing FA.
He was a three-squares client in 2015, BTW. And it was Jabberwocky.
Came with game 5 tickets behind home plate, too. And now I'm good and hung over for this "skills assessment" at City Hall.
So some key points from the new CBA, supposedly (http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/2/#2d5790823d1f):
-15 day DL changed to the 10 day DL
-Home field advantage in the WS now determined the way it should always have been determined, the records of the two teams playing.
-International FA pools limited to 5 million a year, hard cap. No over-spending and paying a tax like before. Because nobody is going to make Jerry Fucking Reinsdorf pay for young talent in order to compete, by God.
-Signing a qualifying offer free agent will now cost you a 3rd round pick, unless it costs you a 2nd and a 5th because you're paying the luxury tax, but not if you sign them under the light of the full moon, and if it's raining that day you get a free breakfast burrito.
-Major luxury tax whammy for any team nearing or over the 250 mildo range, which should really slow down the Dodgers habit of taking on everyone's bad contracts in order to get the players they want.
-Season will start sooner so they can work in some more off days.
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 07:58:25 AM
So some key points from the new CBA, supposedly (http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/2/#2d5790823d1f):
-15 day DL changed to the 10 day DL
-Home field advantage in the WS now determined the way it should always have been determined, the records of the two teams playing.
-International FA pools limited to 5 million a year, hard cap. No over-spending and paying a tax like before. Because nobody is going to make Jerry Fucking Reinsdorf pay for young talent in order to compete, by God.
-Signing a qualifying offer free agent will now cost you a 3rd round pick, unless it costs you a 2nd and a 5th because you're paying the luxury tax, but not if you sign them under the light of the full moon, and if it's raining that day you get a free breakfast burrito.
-Major luxury tax whammy for any team nearing or over the 250 mildo range, which should really slow down the Dodgers habit of taking on everyone's bad contracts in order to get the players they want.
-Season will start sooner so they can work in some more off days.
How weird that Fork's lobbying for a DH fell on deaf ears.
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 07:58:25 AM
So some key points from the new CBA, supposedly (http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/2/#2d5790823d1f):
-15 day DL changed to the 10 day DL
-Home field advantage in the WS now determined the way it should always have been determined, the records of the two teams playing.
-International FA pools limited to 5 million a year, hard cap. No over-spending and paying a tax like before. Because nobody is going to make Jerry Fucking Reinsdorf pay for young talent in order to compete, by God.
-Signing a qualifying offer free agent will now cost you a 3rd round pick, unless it costs you a 2nd and a 5th because you're paying the luxury tax, but not if you sign them under the light of the full moon, and if it's raining that day you get a free breakfast burrito.
-Major luxury tax whammy for any team nearing or over the 250 mildo range, which should really slow down the Dodgers habit of taking on everyone's bad contracts in order to get the players they want.
-Season will start sooner so they can work in some more off days.
How weird that Fork's lobbying for a DH fell on deaf ears.
It's right in line with all Forkdictions
Quote from: Yeti on December 01, 2016, 10:43:05 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 07:58:25 AM
So some key points from the new CBA, supposedly (http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/2/#2d5790823d1f):
-15 day DL changed to the 10 day DL
-Home field advantage in the WS now determined the way it should always have been determined, the records of the two teams playing.
-International FA pools limited to 5 million a year, hard cap. No over-spending and paying a tax like before. Because nobody is going to make Jerry Fucking Reinsdorf pay for young talent in order to compete, by God.
-Signing a qualifying offer free agent will now cost you a 3rd round pick, unless it costs you a 2nd and a 5th because you're paying the luxury tax, but not if you sign them under the light of the full moon, and if it's raining that day you get a free breakfast burrito.
-Major luxury tax whammy for any team nearing or over the 250 mildo range, which should really slow down the Dodgers habit of taking on everyone's bad contracts in order to get the players they want.
-Season will start sooner so they can work in some more off days.
How weird that Fork's lobbying for a DH fell on deaf ears.
It's right in line with all Forkdictions
Remember back in April when the Cubs got to ~5 games up that Fork predicted the Cardinals would never be any closer the rest of the year?
Quote from: ChuckD on December 01, 2016, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Yeti on December 01, 2016, 10:43:05 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 07:58:25 AM
So some key points from the new CBA, supposedly (http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/2/#2d5790823d1f):
-15 day DL changed to the 10 day DL
-Home field advantage in the WS now determined the way it should always have been determined, the records of the two teams playing.
-International FA pools limited to 5 million a year, hard cap. No over-spending and paying a tax like before. Because nobody is going to make Jerry Fucking Reinsdorf pay for young talent in order to compete, by God.
-Signing a qualifying offer free agent will now cost you a 3rd round pick, unless it costs you a 2nd and a 5th because you're paying the luxury tax, but not if you sign them under the light of the full moon, and if it's raining that day you get a free breakfast burrito.
-Major luxury tax whammy for any team nearing or over the 250 mildo range, which should really slow down the Dodgers habit of taking on everyone's bad contracts in order to get the players they want.
-Season will start sooner so they can work in some more off days.
How weird that Fork's lobbying for a DH fell on deaf ears.
It's right in line with all Forkdictions
Remember back in April when the Cubs got to ~5 games up that Fork predicted the Cardinals would never be any closer the rest of the year?
Remember when he predicted the Cubs would win the 2016 World Series. What a loon. We've finally reached the point where the Cubs are actually good enough to justify a small % of the Fork Bravado. Heady times.
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on December 01, 2016, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Yeti on December 01, 2016, 10:43:05 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 07:58:25 AM
So some key points from the new CBA, supposedly (http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/2/#2d5790823d1f):
-15 day DL changed to the 10 day DL
-Home field advantage in the WS now determined the way it should always have been determined, the records of the two teams playing.
-International FA pools limited to 5 million a year, hard cap. No over-spending and paying a tax like before. Because nobody is going to make Jerry Fucking Reinsdorf pay for young talent in order to compete, by God.
-Signing a qualifying offer free agent will now cost you a 3rd round pick, unless it costs you a 2nd and a 5th because you're paying the luxury tax, but not if you sign them under the light of the full moon, and if it's raining that day you get a free breakfast burrito.
-Major luxury tax whammy for any team nearing or over the 250 mildo range, which should really slow down the Dodgers habit of taking on everyone's bad contracts in order to get the players they want.
-Season will start sooner so they can work in some more off days.
How weird that Fork's lobbying for a DH fell on deaf ears.
It's right in line with all Forkdictions
Remember back in April when the Cubs got to ~5 games up that Fork predicted the Cardinals would never be any closer the rest of the year?
Remember when he predicted the Cubs would win the 2016 World Series. What a loon. We've finally reached the point where the Cubs are actually good enough to justify a small % of the Fork Bravado. Heady times.
Some food for thought: what if these young Cubs are similar to the young Blackhawks of a few years back? Would like to get Fork's input on that topic.
Apparently the new CBA rules mean any international FAs under 25 are subject to the pool rules, so Shohei Otani probably isn't coming over till 2019 now, which sucks ass, because there were lots of rumors the Cubs were loading up for a run at him next year if he was posted.
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 12:04:19 PM
Apparently the new CBA rules mean any international FAs under 25 are subject to the pool rules, so Shohei Otani probably isn't coming over till 2019 now, which sucks ass, because there were lots of rumors the Cubs were loading up for a run at him next year if he was posted.
I think there may be something about playing in a professional league that may offset some of that. I still think the biggest sticking point was the $20MM limit on the posting fee.
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2016, 12:17:07 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 12:04:19 PM
Apparently the new CBA rules mean any international FAs under 25 are subject to the pool rules, so Shohei Otani probably isn't coming over till 2019 now, which sucks ass, because there were lots of rumors the Cubs were loading up for a run at him next year if he was posted.
I think there may be something about playing in a professional league that may offset some of that. I still think the biggest sticking point was the $20MM limit on the posting fee.
The limit is 6 years playing in another pro league. 2017 would be Otani's 5th, so he'd still not be eligible. This blows.
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on December 01, 2016, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Yeti on December 01, 2016, 10:43:05 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 07:58:25 AM
So some key points from the new CBA, supposedly (http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/2/#2d5790823d1f):
-15 day DL changed to the 10 day DL
-Home field advantage in the WS now determined the way it should always have been determined, the records of the two teams playing.
-International FA pools limited to 5 million a year, hard cap. No over-spending and paying a tax like before. Because nobody is going to make Jerry Fucking Reinsdorf pay for young talent in order to compete, by God.
-Signing a qualifying offer free agent will now cost you a 3rd round pick, unless it costs you a 2nd and a 5th because you're paying the luxury tax, but not if you sign them under the light of the full moon, and if it's raining that day you get a free breakfast burrito.
-Major luxury tax whammy for any team nearing or over the 250 mildo range, which should really slow down the Dodgers habit of taking on everyone's bad contracts in order to get the players they want.
-Season will start sooner so they can work in some more off days.
How weird that Fork's lobbying for a DH fell on deaf ears.
It's right in line with all Forkdictions
Remember back in April when the Cubs got to ~5 games up that Fork predicted the Cardinals would never be any closer the rest of the year?
Remember when he predicted the Cubs would win the 2016 World Series. What a loon. We've finally reached the point where the Cubs are actually good enough to justify a small % of the Fork Bravado. Heady times.
Tim Federowicz had 6 hits in 31 ABs this year. I guess we should just point out those 6 hits when we assess if he is successful or not, and ignore the 25 times a hit didn't happen.
Quote from: Yeti on December 01, 2016, 02:00:45 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: ChuckD on December 01, 2016, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Yeti on December 01, 2016, 10:43:05 AM
Quote from: Oleg on December 01, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 01, 2016, 07:58:25 AM
So some key points from the new CBA, supposedly (http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/2/#2d5790823d1f):
-15 day DL changed to the 10 day DL
-Home field advantage in the WS now determined the way it should always have been determined, the records of the two teams playing.
-International FA pools limited to 5 million a year, hard cap. No over-spending and paying a tax like before. Because nobody is going to make Jerry Fucking Reinsdorf pay for young talent in order to compete, by God.
-Signing a qualifying offer free agent will now cost you a 3rd round pick, unless it costs you a 2nd and a 5th because you're paying the luxury tax, but not if you sign them under the light of the full moon, and if it's raining that day you get a free breakfast burrito.
-Major luxury tax whammy for any team nearing or over the 250 mildo range, which should really slow down the Dodgers habit of taking on everyone's bad contracts in order to get the players they want.
-Season will start sooner so they can work in some more off days.
How weird that Fork's lobbying for a DH fell on deaf ears.
It's right in line with all Forkdictions
Remember back in April when the Cubs got to ~5 games up that Fork predicted the Cardinals would never be any closer the rest of the year?
Remember when he predicted the Cubs would win the 2016 World Series. What a loon. We've finally reached the point where the Cubs are actually good enough to justify a small % of the Fork Bravado. Heady times.
Tim Federowicz had 6 hits in 31 ABs this year. I guess we should just point out those 6 hits when we assess if he is successful or not, and ignore the 25 times a hit didn't happen.
I said a small %
Fuck Jerry Reinsdorf, the White Sox, and all the billionaire cheapskates who don't want to pay young players and insist on the bullshit provisions discussed above. I hate that much of the CBA is designed to punish teams for giving players money.
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
And Welington Castillo, if just to mend SKO's broken heart.
Quote from: Shooter on December 02, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
And Welington Castillo, if just to mend SKO's broken heart.
If SKO ever takes a break from constantly calling David Ross begging him not to retire, that is.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. “The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro,” a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. “San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals.” Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. “The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro,” a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. “San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals.” Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
DPD. Compare what lesser pitchers are getting for one year.
$12.5 million (one year) to RHP Bartolo Colon
$10 million (one year) to RHP Andrew Cashner
$7.5 million (one year) to RHP R.A. Dickey
Only the teams can review his medicals, obviously (although he was a Padre, so maybe not), but I could see him getting $7 million or more if an April or May return looks like a strong possibility. Anything less would seem like a steal. He's a free agent again after this season so it's pretty unlikely he'd accept a one-year deal at a lower price and a team option for market value money. The only way he does is if teams balk at the medicals and look at him as a 2018 asset with 2017 lost to rehab.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Has anybody ever been an effective athlete following thoracic outlet syndrome surgery? I wouldn't want to blow a roster spot on finding out if he can.
Hopefully Jepstink walk away if the bidding gets too rich.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Has anybody ever been an effective athlete following thoracic outlet syndrome surgery? I wouldn't want to blow a roster spot on finding out if he can.
Hopefully Jepstink walk away if the bidding gets too rich.
Wikipedia provides the following list, apparently in no particular order.
Tyson Ross (SD)
Matt Harvey (NYM)
Luke Hochevar (KC)
Phil Hughes (MIN)
Mike Foltynewicz (ATL)
Chris Carpenter (STL)
Jaime Garcia (ATL)
Josh Beckett
Shaun Marcum
Matt Harrison (PHI)
Clayton Richard (SD)
Noah Lowry
Chris Young
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 07:45:30 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Has anybody ever been an effective athlete following thoracic outlet syndrome surgery? I wouldn't want to blow a roster spot on finding out if he can.
Hopefully Jepstink walk away if the bidding gets too rich.
Wikipedia provides the following list, apparently in no particular order.
Tyson Ross (SD)
Matt Harvey (NYM)
Luke Hochevar (KC)
Phil Hughes (MIN)
Mike Foltynewicz (ATL)
Chris Carpenter (STL)
Jaime Garcia (ATL)
Josh Beckett
Shaun Marcum
Matt Harrison (PHI)
Clayton Richard (SD)
Noah Lowry
Chris Young
Those are all people who have had it, not people have come back from it successfully, obviously, since Ross and Harvey head off the list. Garcia and Beckett are about the only two who had it and came back to pitch at anything resembling their former selves. Garcia's always been a junkballer anyway, Beckett had a mediocre 2014 (2.88 ERA but 4.33 FIP) after the surgery before hanging it up.
It sure seems like a death sentence, but Ross and Harvey are arguably the first two who were young and had elite stuff before they got hurt (the surgery ended Carpenter's career, but he was also like 36 and coming off like 20 other arm injuries) so their recovery is worth monitoring.
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 07:52:52 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 07:45:30 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Has anybody ever been an effective athlete following thoracic outlet syndrome surgery? I wouldn't want to blow a roster spot on finding out if he can.
Hopefully Jepstink walk away if the bidding gets too rich.
Wikipedia provides the following list, apparently in no particular order.
Tyson Ross (SD)
Matt Harvey (NYM)
Luke Hochevar (KC)
Phil Hughes (MIN)
Mike Foltynewicz (ATL)
Chris Carpenter (STL)
Jaime Garcia (ATL)
Josh Beckett
Shaun Marcum
Matt Harrison (PHI)
Clayton Richard (SD)
Noah Lowry
Chris Young
Those are all people who have had it, not people have come back from it successfully, obviously, since Ross and Harvey head off the list. Garcia and Beckett are about the only two who had it and came back to pitch at anything resembling their former selves. Garcia's always been a junkballer anyway, Beckett had a mediocre 2014 (2.88 ERA but 4.33 FIP) after the surgery before hanging it up.
It sure seems like a death sentence, but Ross and Harvey are arguably the first two who were young and had elite stuff before they got hurt (the surgery ended Carpenter's career, but he was also like 36 and coming off like 20 other arm injuries) so their recovery is worth monitoring.
Young won Comeback Player of the Year after having it. So there's a chance.
But a team that's in the business of winning championships probably wouldn't want to give up a roster spot to find out.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 05, 2016, 07:57:33 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 07:52:52 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 07:45:30 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Has anybody ever been an effective athlete following thoracic outlet syndrome surgery? I wouldn't want to blow a roster spot on finding out if he can.
Hopefully Jepstink walk away if the bidding gets too rich.
Wikipedia provides the following list, apparently in no particular order.
Tyson Ross (SD)
Matt Harvey (NYM)
Luke Hochevar (KC)
Phil Hughes (MIN)
Mike Foltynewicz (ATL)
Chris Carpenter (STL)
Jaime Garcia (ATL)
Josh Beckett
Shaun Marcum
Matt Harrison (PHI)
Clayton Richard (SD)
Noah Lowry
Chris Young
Those are all people who have had it, not people have come back from it successfully, obviously, since Ross and Harvey head off the list. Garcia and Beckett are about the only two who had it and came back to pitch at anything resembling their former selves. Garcia's always been a junkballer anyway, Beckett had a mediocre 2014 (2.88 ERA but 4.33 FIP) after the surgery before hanging it up.
It sure seems like a death sentence, but Ross and Harvey are arguably the first two who were young and had elite stuff before they got hurt (the surgery ended Carpenter's career, but he was also like 36 and coming off like 20 other arm injuries) so their recovery is worth monitoring.
Young won Comeback Player of the Year after having it. So there's a chance.
But a team that's in the business of winning championships probably wouldn't want to give up a roster spot to find out.
I'm sure Oakland is more likely to try a Sign and Flip like they did with Rich Hill.
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 08:18:41 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 05, 2016, 07:57:33 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 07:52:52 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 07:45:30 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Has anybody ever been an effective athlete following thoracic outlet syndrome surgery? I wouldn't want to blow a roster spot on finding out if he can.
Hopefully Jepstink walk away if the bidding gets too rich.
Wikipedia provides the following list, apparently in no particular order.
Tyson Ross (SD)
Matt Harvey (NYM)
Luke Hochevar (KC)
Phil Hughes (MIN)
Mike Foltynewicz (ATL)
Chris Carpenter (STL)
Jaime Garcia (ATL)
Josh Beckett
Shaun Marcum
Matt Harrison (PHI)
Clayton Richard (SD)
Noah Lowry
Chris Young
Those are all people who have had it, not people have come back from it successfully, obviously, since Ross and Harvey head off the list. Garcia and Beckett are about the only two who had it and came back to pitch at anything resembling their former selves. Garcia's always been a junkballer anyway, Beckett had a mediocre 2014 (2.88 ERA but 4.33 FIP) after the surgery before hanging it up.
It sure seems like a death sentence, but Ross and Harvey are arguably the first two who were young and had elite stuff before they got hurt (the surgery ended Carpenter's career, but he was also like 36 and coming off like 20 other arm injuries) so their recovery is worth monitoring.
Young won Comeback Player of the Year after having it. So there's a chance.
But a team that's in the business of winning championships probably wouldn't want to give up a roster spot to find out.
I'm sure Oakland is more likely to try a Sign and Flip like they did with Rich Hill.
Why wouldn't San Diego have just done a keep & flip if they thought he had anything?
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 05, 2016, 03:44:37 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 08:18:41 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 05, 2016, 07:57:33 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 07:52:52 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 07:45:30 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Has anybody ever been an effective athlete following thoracic outlet syndrome surgery? I wouldn't want to blow a roster spot on finding out if he can.
Hopefully Jepstink walk away if the bidding gets too rich.
Wikipedia provides the following list, apparently in no particular order.
Tyson Ross (SD)
Matt Harvey (NYM)
Luke Hochevar (KC)
Phil Hughes (MIN)
Mike Foltynewicz (ATL)
Chris Carpenter (STL)
Jaime Garcia (ATL)
Josh Beckett
Shaun Marcum
Matt Harrison (PHI)
Clayton Richard (SD)
Noah Lowry
Chris Young
Those are all people who have had it, not people have come back from it successfully, obviously, since Ross and Harvey head off the list. Garcia and Beckett are about the only two who had it and came back to pitch at anything resembling their former selves. Garcia's always been a junkballer anyway, Beckett had a mediocre 2014 (2.88 ERA but 4.33 FIP) after the surgery before hanging it up.
It sure seems like a death sentence, but Ross and Harvey are arguably the first two who were young and had elite stuff before they got hurt (the surgery ended Carpenter's career, but he was also like 36 and coming off like 20 other arm injuries) so their recovery is worth monitoring.
Young won Comeback Player of the Year after having it. So there's a chance.
But a team that's in the business of winning championships probably wouldn't want to give up a roster spot to find out.
I'm sure Oakland is more likely to try a Sign and Flip like they did with Rich Hill.
Why wouldn't San Diego have just done a keep & flip if they thought he had anything?
San Diego appears to be hemorrhaging salary and preparing for the full-on tank right now, so paying him whatever he was likely to get in arbitration (probably north of 10 mil a year) would have been more than they were willing to commit in the chance that he sucked and they were stuck with him. Right now I don't think they'd have a single player making 8 figures who is actually on the roster (they had to pay some of Melvin Upton and Matt Kemp to make them go away).
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 03:53:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 05, 2016, 03:44:37 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 08:18:41 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 05, 2016, 07:57:33 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 05, 2016, 07:52:52 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 07:45:30 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 04, 2016, 08:50:55 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 04, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 03, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 02, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Might be worth picking up the surprisingly non-tendered Tyson Ross and betting on a bounceback from injury.
No risk, potential for high reward. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Quote
The Cubs made attempts over the past couple years to acquire right-hander Tyson Ross from the Padres and could pursue him in free agency, according to Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago. "The Padres were close to trading Ross to the Cubs for Starlin Castro," a major league source who worked for one of the teams told Levine. "San Diego execs were mixed on asking for Castro or Javier Baez. The deal went down to the wire in late July of 2015 but never got to the point of exchanging medicals." Ross was a front-of-the-rotation starter at that point, but he only threw 5 1/3 innings last season and is currently recovering from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery. The Padres non-tendered him Friday.
Yep. Whoever signs him will (my guess, FWIW) sign him to a minor league deal to see if he can come back in 2017 with an eye toward him being productive in 2018. If he can come all the way back (granted, unlikely), you've got a cheap top-of-the-rotation guy.
The problem with that is everyone else will want to sign him to a minor league deal too. I think he'll get guaranteed money and an MLB roster spot. He's supposed to be ready to pitch by April or even spring training so it's not like he's expected to miss half of the year.
Has anybody ever been an effective athlete following thoracic outlet syndrome surgery? I wouldn't want to blow a roster spot on finding out if he can.
Hopefully Jepstink walk away if the bidding gets too rich.
Wikipedia provides the following list, apparently in no particular order.
Tyson Ross (SD)
Matt Harvey (NYM)
Luke Hochevar (KC)
Phil Hughes (MIN)
Mike Foltynewicz (ATL)
Chris Carpenter (STL)
Jaime Garcia (ATL)
Josh Beckett
Shaun Marcum
Matt Harrison (PHI)
Clayton Richard (SD)
Noah Lowry
Chris Young
Those are all people who have had it, not people have come back from it successfully, obviously, since Ross and Harvey head off the list. Garcia and Beckett are about the only two who had it and came back to pitch at anything resembling their former selves. Garcia's always been a junkballer anyway, Beckett had a mediocre 2014 (2.88 ERA but 4.33 FIP) after the surgery before hanging it up.
It sure seems like a death sentence, but Ross and Harvey are arguably the first two who were young and had elite stuff before they got hurt (the surgery ended Carpenter's career, but he was also like 36 and coming off like 20 other arm injuries) so their recovery is worth monitoring.
Young won Comeback Player of the Year after having it. So there's a chance.
But a team that's in the business of winning championships probably wouldn't want to give up a roster spot to find out.
I'm sure Oakland is more likely to try a Sign and Flip like they did with Rich Hill.
Why wouldn't San Diego have just done a keep & flip if they thought he had anything?
San Diego appears to be hemorrhaging salary and preparing for the full-on tank right now, so paying him whatever he was likely to get in arbitration (probably north of 10 mil a year) would have been more than they were willing to commit in the chance that he sucked and they were stuck with him. Right now I don't think they'd have a single player making 8 figures who is actually on the roster (they had to pay some of Melvin Upton and Matt Kemp to make them go away).
Not much left.
(http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/1140/3470876296.png)
Rosenthal reporting the White Sox are getting Yoan Moncada and three other prospects from Boston for Sale.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 12:22:52 PM
Rosenthal reporting the White Sox are getting Yoan Moncada and three other prospects from Boston for Sale.
The other big one is Michael Kopech, a starting pitcher who can supposedly hit triple digits. The other two are low minor leaguers.
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 12:27:42 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 12:22:52 PM
Rosenthal reporting the White Sox are getting Yoan Moncada and three other prospects from Boston for Sale.
The other big one is Michael Kopech, a starting pitcher who can supposedly hit triple digits. The other two are low minor leaguers.
All that noise can stay in the AL, thank you.
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Please, God/Theo. Give me Wade and Kenley. I will be so happy.
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Just wait until Davis is lights-out for the Cubs and Soler finally has a healthy season in 2019 where he hits 30 HRs.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 07, 2016, 06:54:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Just wait until Davis is lights-out for the Cubs and Soler finally has a healthy season in 2019 where he hits 30 HRs.
Yeah, I understand people clinging to Soler's upside and not wanting to trade him to an extent, I was in that boat last offseason, but he was handed the job on a silver platter with Schwarber going down and he again spent a month swinging at every breaking ball in the dirt, then got hurt again, then came back and hit well before getting hurt again. It is the same old song and dance every time. In order for him to ever potentially unlock that upside he'd need to stay healthy and get tons of PAs which the Cubs aren't interested in giving to him with Zobrist and Javy needing playing time.
The odds that they kept Jorge and he sucked/got hurt during his 1 start a week this year, thus cratering his trade value for good are probably higher than the odds they traded him right before he was about to break out.
I also find it odd that the same people who are saying "I don't want to trade Soler for Davis because Davis' forearm issue scares me" also completely dismiss any worries over Rondon and Strop's health after their injuries.
Quote from: SKO on December 07, 2016, 07:35:40 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on December 07, 2016, 06:54:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Just wait until Davis is lights-out for the Cubs and Soler finally has a healthy season in 2019 where he hits 30 HRs.
Yeah, I understand people clinging to Soler's upside and not wanting to trade him to an extent, I was in that boat last offseason, but he was handed the job on a silver platter with Schwarber going down and he again spent a month swinging at every breaking ball in the dirt, then got hurt again, then came back and hit well before getting hurt again. It is the same old song and dance every time. In order for him to ever potentially unlock that upside he'd need to stay healthy and get tons of PAs which the Cubs aren't interested in giving to him with Zobrist and Javy needing playing time.
The odds that they kept Jorge and he sucked/got hurt during his 1 start a week this year, thus cratering his trade value for good are probably higher than the odds they traded him right before he was about to break out.
I also find it odd that the same people who are saying "I don't want to trade Soler for Davis because Davis' forearm issue scares me" also completely dismiss any worries over Rondon and Strop's health after their injuries.
This trade would also come with the added bonus that Jorge the Cardinals Killer can continue to troll the shit out of the BFIB every time the Royals and Cardinals meet.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 10:56:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Please, God/Theo. Give me Wade and Kenley. I will be so happy.
Is this a thing, or is this like the time Chuck thought the Cubs should get both Theo and Andrew Friedman?
Quote from: Eli on December 07, 2016, 12:23:18 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 10:56:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Please, God/Theo. Give me Wade and Kenley. I will be so happy.
Is this a thing, or is this like the time Chuck thought the Cubs should get both Theo and Andrew Friedman?
I'm just a fan of Kenley and would like to see a Bullpen of Death at the ends of games.
Quote from: Eli on December 07, 2016, 12:23:18 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 10:56:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Please, God/Theo. Give me Wade and Kenley. I will be so happy.
Is this a thing, or is this like the time Chuck thought the Cubs should get both Theo and Andrew Friedman?
Or the time he thought they should get Lester and Scherzer
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 07, 2016, 12:38:54 PM
Quote from: Eli on December 07, 2016, 12:23:18 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 10:56:36 PM
Quote from: SKO on December 06, 2016, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
Jeff Passan: Cubs close to acquiring KC's Wade Davis. No return mentioned yet.
I still want Kenley, too.
Soler for Davis has been discussed a lot. Cubs Twitter is mad because I guess Jorge's second consecutive sub-1 WAR season makes him too valuable to deal for one of the game's best closers
Please, God/Theo. Give me Wade and Kenley. I will be so happy.
Is this a thing, or is this like the time Chuck thought the Cubs should get both Theo and Andrew Friedman?
I'm just a fan of Kenley and would like to see a Bullpen of Death at the ends of games.
Oh, same. Just wasn't sure if there was some rumor I'd missed.
Although if they're going to spend that much money on a free agent, I'd rather they just keep Dexter.
I want the Cubs to get every good player, even if it means that Iowa, and Tennessee and Myrtle Beach become juggernauts that could win the NL East by 15 games. And then every shitty player can play on the other 29 clubs. Then I will be satisfied.
Quote from: Brownie on December 07, 2016, 01:34:44 PM
I want the Cubs to get every good player, even if it means that Iowa, and Tennessee and Myrtle Beach become juggernauts that could win the NL East by 15 games. And then every shitty player can play on the other 29 clubs. Then I will be satisfied.
Someone needs Santa to get here very soon.
Why is Satan an anagram of Santa?
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on December 07, 2016, 01:53:53 PM
Quote from: Brownie on December 07, 2016, 01:34:44 PM
I want the Cubs to get every good player, even if it means that Iowa, and Tennessee and Myrtle Beach become juggernauts that could win the NL East by 15 games. And then every shitty player can play on the other 29 clubs. Then I will be satisfied.
Someone needs Santa to get here very soon.
Why is Satan an anagram of Santa?
Because Santa is actually God (http://www.macquirelatory.com/Santa%20Is%20Satan.htm), or something.
Perfect time to swoop in on Kenley. No one should sign with Miami ever for as long as Loria owns them.
Reports indicate Kenley Jansen is returning to the Dodgers for 5 years, $80MM. Guess he won't need to pick a new walkout song.
(He comes out to Tupac's "California Love," if you weren't aware.)
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 12, 2016, 12:59:35 PM
Reports indicate Kenley Jansen is returning to the Dodgers for 5 years, $80MM. Guess he won't need to pick a new walkout song.
(He comes out to Tupac's "California Love," if you weren't aware.)
Ya mean the track that hits ya eardrum like a slug to ya chest?
I'm aware like a fuckin' pimp.
Shocker (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30816#commentMessage): As usual, Mathyoo Trooblud
thinks nay,
knows he would be better at professional baseball decisionmakers' jobs than they are. Theo won a World Series? Isn't that cute. Mathyoo would have won five.
QuoteMore importantly, because the Cardinals have locked up Fowler for long enough to ensure that he'll slow down before they're done paying him, he isn't going to be without value when he does need to move out of center field. His improved power and tremendous approach have made sure of that. Looking at the body type and considering the way it moves, it's not hard to imagine Fowler being an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, and unless the strikeout rate keeps climbing, he could bear the offensive burden of that position.
St. Louis' prospective lineup for 2017:
Dexter Fowler - CF
Matt Carpenter - 1B
Aledmys Diaz - SS
Stephen Piscotty - RF
Yadier Molina - C
Randal Grichuk - LF
Jhonny Peralta - 3B
Kolten Wong - 2B
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's, and is on par with the lineups of the Nationals, Pirates, and Dodgers, among other solid NL contenders. Fowler will cost the team about the same amount each season as the Cubs have paid to add Wade Davis, Koji Uehara, and Brian Duensing to their bullpen mix. The Cubs could have spent their money better by re-signing Fowler, and the Cardinals are right back in the thick of the NL Central race because they were wise enough to make a splash.
1. Fowler costs the same per season as Davis, Uehara, Duensing.
2. Davis, Uehara, Duensing are only signed for one year.
3. The Cubs should have signed Fowler for five years for that money, even though they already have a first baseman signed through the same five-year period who's better than Dexter Fowler for a lot less money and even though their outfield is already overcrowded and even though they have a young centerfield prospect to develop, because reasons.
Suck it, Theo. QED.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 15, 2016, 12:21:16 AM
Shocker (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30816#commentMessage): As usual, Mathyoo Trooblud thinks nay, knows he would be better at professional baseball decisionmakers' jobs than they are. Theo won a World Series? Isn't that cute. Mathyoo would have won five.
QuoteMore importantly, because the Cardinals have locked up Fowler for long enough to ensure that he'll slow down before they're done paying him, he isn't going to be without value when he does need to move out of center field. His improved power and tremendous approach have made sure of that. Looking at the body type and considering the way it moves, it's not hard to imagine Fowler being an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, and unless the strikeout rate keeps climbing, he could bear the offensive burden of that position.
St. Louis' prospective lineup for 2017:
Dexter Fowler - CF
Matt Carpenter - 1B
Aledmys Diaz - SS
Stephen Piscotty - RF
Yadier Molina - C
Randal Grichuk - LF
Jhonny Peralta - 3B
Kolten Wong - 2B
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's, and is on par with the lineups of the Nationals, Pirates, and Dodgers, among other solid NL contenders. Fowler will cost the team about the same amount each season as the Cubs have paid to add Wade Davis, Koji Uehara, and Brian Duensing to their bullpen mix. The Cubs could have spent their money better by re-signing Fowler, and the Cardinals are right back in the thick of the NL Central race because they were wise enough to make a splash.
1. Fowler costs the same per season as Davis, Uehara, Duensing.
2. Davis, Uehara, Duensing are only signed for one year.
3. The Cubs should have signed Fowler for five years for that money, even though they already have a first baseman signed through the same five-year period who's better than Dexter Fowler for a lot less money and even though their outfield is already overcrowded and even though they have a young centerfield prospect to develop, because reasons.
Suck it, Theo. QED.
You'll be sorry when Fowler posts the 17 WAR that will get the Cardinals even with the Cubs.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 15, 2016, 12:21:16 AM
Shocker (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30816#commentMessage): As usual, Mathyoo Trooblud thinks nay, knows he would be better at professional baseball decisionmakers' jobs than they are. Theo won a World Series? Isn't that cute. Mathyoo would have won five.
QuoteMore importantly, because the Cardinals have locked up Fowler for long enough to ensure that he'll slow down before they're done paying him, he isn't going to be without value when he does need to move out of center field. His improved power and tremendous approach have made sure of that. Looking at the body type and considering the way it moves, it's not hard to imagine Fowler being an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, and unless the strikeout rate keeps climbing, he could bear the offensive burden of that position.
St. Louis' prospective lineup for 2017:
Dexter Fowler - CF
Matt Carpenter - 1B
Aledmys Diaz - SS
Stephen Piscotty - RF
Yadier Molina - C
Randal Grichuk - LF
Jhonny Peralta - 3B
Kolten Wong - 2B
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's, and is on par with the lineups of the Nationals, Pirates, and Dodgers, among other solid NL contenders. Fowler will cost the team about the same amount each season as the Cubs have paid to add Wade Davis, Koji Uehara, and Brian Duensing to their bullpen mix. The Cubs could have spent their money better by re-signing Fowler, and the Cardinals are right back in the thick of the NL Central race because they were wise enough to make a splash.
1. Fowler costs the same per season as Davis, Uehara, Duensing.
2. Davis, Uehara, Duensing are only signed for one year.
3. The Cubs should have signed Fowler for five years for that money, even though they already have a first baseman signed through the same five-year period who's better than Dexter Fowler for a lot less money and even though their outfield is already overcrowded and even though they have a young centerfield prospect to develop, because reasons.
Suck it, Theo. QED.
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago'sI mean yeah, other than being older and injury prone and worse in every way, it is comparable to Chicago's. But what can you expect from the guy writing "Maybe Steven Piscotty is better than Kris Bryant?" articles back in May.
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 07:33:48 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 15, 2016, 12:21:16 AM
Shocker (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30816#commentMessage): As usual, Mathyoo Trooblud thinks nay, knows he would be better at professional baseball decisionmakers' jobs than they are. Theo won a World Series? Isn't that cute. Mathyoo would have won five.
QuoteMore importantly, because the Cardinals have locked up Fowler for long enough to ensure that he'll slow down before they're done paying him, he isn't going to be without value when he does need to move out of center field. His improved power and tremendous approach have made sure of that. Looking at the body type and considering the way it moves, it's not hard to imagine Fowler being an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, and unless the strikeout rate keeps climbing, he could bear the offensive burden of that position.
St. Louis' prospective lineup for 2017:
Dexter Fowler - CF
Matt Carpenter - 1B
Aledmys Diaz - SS
Stephen Piscotty - RF
Yadier Molina - C
Randal Grichuk - LF
Jhonny Peralta - 3B
Kolten Wong - 2B
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's, and is on par with the lineups of the Nationals, Pirates, and Dodgers, among other solid NL contenders. Fowler will cost the team about the same amount each season as the Cubs have paid to add Wade Davis, Koji Uehara, and Brian Duensing to their bullpen mix. The Cubs could have spent their money better by re-signing Fowler, and the Cardinals are right back in the thick of the NL Central race because they were wise enough to make a splash.
1. Fowler costs the same per season as Davis, Uehara, Duensing.
2. Davis, Uehara, Duensing are only signed for one year.
3. The Cubs should have signed Fowler for five years for that money, even though they already have a first baseman signed through the same five-year period who's better than Dexter Fowler for a lot less money and even though their outfield is already overcrowded and even though they have a young centerfield prospect to develop, because reasons.
Suck it, Theo. QED.
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's
I mean yeah, other than being older and injury prone and worse in every way, it is comparable to Chicago's. But what can you expect from the guy writing "Maybe Steven Piscotty is better than Kris Bryant?" articles back in May.
Yeah that's the sentence that stood out for me (Fowler at 1B strikes me as being deliberately provocative so I'll let it go as such).
I don't know what the logical fallacy is called for saying "well this this and this is why one outcome is likely, but it's reasonable to conclude that this opposite outcome will happen" with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO BACK UP THE OTHER OUTCOME but this idiot had nailed it.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on December 15, 2016, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 07:33:48 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 15, 2016, 12:21:16 AM
Shocker (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30816#commentMessage): As usual, Mathyoo Trooblud thinks nay, knows he would be better at professional baseball decisionmakers' jobs than they are. Theo won a World Series? Isn't that cute. Mathyoo would have won five.
QuoteMore importantly, because the Cardinals have locked up Fowler for long enough to ensure that he'll slow down before they're done paying him, he isn't going to be without value when he does need to move out of center field. His improved power and tremendous approach have made sure of that. Looking at the body type and considering the way it moves, it's not hard to imagine Fowler being an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, and unless the strikeout rate keeps climbing, he could bear the offensive burden of that position.
St. Louis' prospective lineup for 2017:
Dexter Fowler - CF
Matt Carpenter - 1B
Aledmys Diaz - SS
Stephen Piscotty - RF
Yadier Molina - C
Randal Grichuk - LF
Jhonny Peralta - 3B
Kolten Wong - 2B
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's, and is on par with the lineups of the Nationals, Pirates, and Dodgers, among other solid NL contenders. Fowler will cost the team about the same amount each season as the Cubs have paid to add Wade Davis, Koji Uehara, and Brian Duensing to their bullpen mix. The Cubs could have spent their money better by re-signing Fowler, and the Cardinals are right back in the thick of the NL Central race because they were wise enough to make a splash.
1. Fowler costs the same per season as Davis, Uehara, Duensing.
2. Davis, Uehara, Duensing are only signed for one year.
3. The Cubs should have signed Fowler for five years for that money, even though they already have a first baseman signed through the same five-year period who's better than Dexter Fowler for a lot less money and even though their outfield is already overcrowded and even though they have a young centerfield prospect to develop, because reasons.
Suck it, Theo. QED.
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's
I mean yeah, other than being older and injury prone and worse in every way, it is comparable to Chicago's. But what can you expect from the guy writing "Maybe Steven Piscotty is better than Kris Bryant?" articles back in May.
Yeah that's the sentence that stood out for me (Fowler at 1B strikes me as being deliberately provocative so I'll let it go as such).
I don't know what the logical fallacy is called for saying "well this this and this is why one outcome is likely, but it's reasonable to conclude that this opposite outcome will happen" with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO BACK UP THE OTHER OUTCOME but this idiot had nailed it.
Deliberately provocative or not, saying it's "not hard" to imagine a guy with a career slugging % of .422 aging into an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, when his already-not-substantial power is well into the decline phase is just fucking nonsensical garbage. I mean, sure, a tall, athletic dude like Dexter used to playing CF could totally be an excellent defensive first baseman but top notch defense at the least important defensive position on the field doesn't add up to dick if you can't hit you can't hit for any power there.
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on December 15, 2016, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 07:33:48 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 15, 2016, 12:21:16 AM
Shocker (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30816#commentMessage): As usual, Mathyoo Trooblud thinks nay, knows he would be better at professional baseball decisionmakers' jobs than they are. Theo won a World Series? Isn't that cute. Mathyoo would have won five.
QuoteMore importantly, because the Cardinals have locked up Fowler for long enough to ensure that he'll slow down before they're done paying him, he isn't going to be without value when he does need to move out of center field. His improved power and tremendous approach have made sure of that. Looking at the body type and considering the way it moves, it's not hard to imagine Fowler being an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, and unless the strikeout rate keeps climbing, he could bear the offensive burden of that position.
St. Louis' prospective lineup for 2017:
Dexter Fowler - CF
Matt Carpenter - 1B
Aledmys Diaz - SS
Stephen Piscotty - RF
Yadier Molina - C
Randal Grichuk - LF
Jhonny Peralta - 3B
Kolten Wong - 2B
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's, and is on par with the lineups of the Nationals, Pirates, and Dodgers, among other solid NL contenders. Fowler will cost the team about the same amount each season as the Cubs have paid to add Wade Davis, Koji Uehara, and Brian Duensing to their bullpen mix. The Cubs could have spent their money better by re-signing Fowler, and the Cardinals are right back in the thick of the NL Central race because they were wise enough to make a splash.
1. Fowler costs the same per season as Davis, Uehara, Duensing.
2. Davis, Uehara, Duensing are only signed for one year.
3. The Cubs should have signed Fowler for five years for that money, even though they already have a first baseman signed through the same five-year period who's better than Dexter Fowler for a lot less money and even though their outfield is already overcrowded and even though they have a young centerfield prospect to develop, because reasons.
Suck it, Theo. QED.
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's
I mean yeah, other than being older and injury prone and worse in every way, it is comparable to Chicago's. But what can you expect from the guy writing "Maybe Steven Piscotty is better than Kris Bryant?" articles back in May.
Yeah that's the sentence that stood out for me (Fowler at 1B strikes me as being deliberately provocative so I'll let it go as such).
I don't know what the logical fallacy is called for saying "well this this and this is why one outcome is likely, but it's reasonable to conclude that this opposite outcome will happen" with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO BACK UP THE OTHER OUTCOME but this idiot had nailed it.
Deliberately provocative or not, saying it's "not hard" to imagine a guy with a career slugging % of .422 aging into an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, when his already-not-substantial power is well into the decline phase is just fucking nonsensical garbage.
Not defending this Mouthbreather, mind you, but hasn't Fowler's HR #'s gone up?
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on December 15, 2016, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on December 15, 2016, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 07:33:48 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 15, 2016, 12:21:16 AM
Shocker (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30816#commentMessage): As usual, Mathyoo Trooblud thinks nay, knows he would be better at professional baseball decisionmakers' jobs than they are. Theo won a World Series? Isn't that cute. Mathyoo would have won five.
QuoteMore importantly, because the Cardinals have locked up Fowler for long enough to ensure that he'll slow down before they're done paying him, he isn't going to be without value when he does need to move out of center field. His improved power and tremendous approach have made sure of that. Looking at the body type and considering the way it moves, it's not hard to imagine Fowler being an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, and unless the strikeout rate keeps climbing, he could bear the offensive burden of that position.
St. Louis' prospective lineup for 2017:
Dexter Fowler - CF
Matt Carpenter - 1B
Aledmys Diaz - SS
Stephen Piscotty - RF
Yadier Molina - C
Randal Grichuk - LF
Jhonny Peralta - 3B
Kolten Wong - 2B
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's, and is on par with the lineups of the Nationals, Pirates, and Dodgers, among other solid NL contenders. Fowler will cost the team about the same amount each season as the Cubs have paid to add Wade Davis, Koji Uehara, and Brian Duensing to their bullpen mix. The Cubs could have spent their money better by re-signing Fowler, and the Cardinals are right back in the thick of the NL Central race because they were wise enough to make a splash.
1. Fowler costs the same per season as Davis, Uehara, Duensing.
2. Davis, Uehara, Duensing are only signed for one year.
3. The Cubs should have signed Fowler for five years for that money, even though they already have a first baseman signed through the same five-year period who's better than Dexter Fowler for a lot less money and even though their outfield is already overcrowded and even though they have a young centerfield prospect to develop, because reasons.
Suck it, Theo. QED.
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's
I mean yeah, other than being older and injury prone and worse in every way, it is comparable to Chicago's. But what can you expect from the guy writing "Maybe Steven Piscotty is better than Kris Bryant?" articles back in May.
Yeah that's the sentence that stood out for me (Fowler at 1B strikes me as being deliberately provocative so I'll let it go as such).
I don't know what the logical fallacy is called for saying "well this this and this is why one outcome is likely, but it's reasonable to conclude that this opposite outcome will happen" with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO BACK UP THE OTHER OUTCOME but this idiot had nailed it.
Deliberately provocative or not, saying it's "not hard" to imagine a guy with a career slugging % of .422 aging into an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, when his already-not-substantial power is well into the decline phase is just fucking nonsensical garbage.
Not defending this Mouthbreather, mind you, but hasn't Fowler's HR #'s gone up?
He hit 17 in 2015, which was a career high, but he also hit fewer doubles and triples moving to a smaller park, so he slugged below his career norm anyway (.411 to .422), and then this year he went back down to 13, which is basically what he's averaged (12.6) over the last 5 years. He's extremely unlikely to add more power from here on out.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on December 15, 2016, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on December 15, 2016, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 07:33:48 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 15, 2016, 12:21:16 AM
Shocker (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30816#commentMessage): As usual, Mathyoo Trooblud thinks nay, knows he would be better at professional baseball decisionmakers' jobs than they are. Theo won a World Series? Isn't that cute. Mathyoo would have won five.
QuoteMore importantly, because the Cardinals have locked up Fowler for long enough to ensure that he'll slow down before they're done paying him, he isn't going to be without value when he does need to move out of center field. His improved power and tremendous approach have made sure of that. Looking at the body type and considering the way it moves, it's not hard to imagine Fowler being an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, and unless the strikeout rate keeps climbing, he could bear the offensive burden of that position.
St. Louis' prospective lineup for 2017:
Dexter Fowler - CF
Matt Carpenter - 1B
Aledmys Diaz - SS
Stephen Piscotty - RF
Yadier Molina - C
Randal Grichuk - LF
Jhonny Peralta - 3B
Kolten Wong - 2B
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's, and is on par with the lineups of the Nationals, Pirates, and Dodgers, among other solid NL contenders. Fowler will cost the team about the same amount each season as the Cubs have paid to add Wade Davis, Koji Uehara, and Brian Duensing to their bullpen mix. The Cubs could have spent their money better by re-signing Fowler, and the Cardinals are right back in the thick of the NL Central race because they were wise enough to make a splash.
1. Fowler costs the same per season as Davis, Uehara, Duensing.
2. Davis, Uehara, Duensing are only signed for one year.
3. The Cubs should have signed Fowler for five years for that money, even though they already have a first baseman signed through the same five-year period who's better than Dexter Fowler for a lot less money and even though their outfield is already overcrowded and even though they have a young centerfield prospect to develop, because reasons.
Suck it, Theo. QED.
That's a bit less sexy than the Cubs' projected lineup, and quite a bit older, and loaded with a fair amount of injury risk, and an inferior defensive group. That said, it's reasonably close to being as good as Chicago's
I mean yeah, other than being older and injury prone and worse in every way, it is comparable to Chicago's. But what can you expect from the guy writing "Maybe Steven Piscotty is better than Kris Bryant?" articles back in May.
Yeah that's the sentence that stood out for me (Fowler at 1B strikes me as being deliberately provocative so I'll let it go as such).
I don't know what the logical fallacy is called for saying "well this this and this is why one outcome is likely, but it's reasonable to conclude that this opposite outcome will happen" with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO BACK UP THE OTHER OUTCOME but this idiot had nailed it.
Deliberately provocative or not, saying it's "not hard" to imagine a guy with a career slugging % of .422 aging into an excellent first baseman in his mid-30s, when his already-not-substantial power is well into the decline phase is just fucking nonsensical garbage.
Not defending this Mouthbreather, mind you, but hasn't Fowler's HR #'s gone up?
DPD, but here's what ZiPS projects for Dexter offensively over the length of that contract in STL:
.259/.360/.406, 11 dingers, 2.8 WAR
.258/.358/.415, 11 dingers, 2.5 WAR
.259/.359/.408, 10 dingers, 2.3 WAR
.258/.356/.403, 9 dingers, 1.9 WAR
.255/.347/.391, 8 dingers, 1.4 WAR
For the first three years of that deal he should be pretty much the same solidly above average CF he has been, then he declines a bit to a below average but still useful outfielder. If you put that batting line at first base, though, that's a little worse than what Joe Mauer just did this year for the Twins and he was worth a whopping 1 win. If that's an excellent first baseman, then fuck me, Anthony Rizzo is a literal God.
I look at the Cardinals' projected lineup, and they have nice supplementary players in the lineup. Sure, a few can have career years, and then you have a team that could capitalize on a bad Cubs 2017 and compete for the Division title. This team probably is in the wild card mix, especially if their pitching holds together.
The Cardinals lineup reminds me of a pre-2012 Cubs lineup. Good enough where you can think that if the right things break, hey, anything can happen. But really, it's an old lineup with a lot of flawed players. Fowler is a useful piece, but his value is a little higher when he has a World Series MVP, two bonafide MVP candidates, and emerging stars like Russell, Soler, Contreras down in the lineup. Also, Fowler's defensvie WAR increased, which is nice. He's not a defensive liability by any stretch, but did it help that he got to play alongside Hayward and NotSchwarber for the whole season?
Quote from: Brownie on December 15, 2016, 10:29:19 AM
I look at the Cardinals' projected lineup, and they have nice supplementary players in the lineup. Sure, a few can have career years, and then you have a team that could capitalize on a bad Cubs 2017 and compete for the Division title. This team probably is in the wild card mix, especially if their pitching holds together.
The Cardinals lineup reminds me of a pre-2012 Cubs lineup. Good enough where you can think that if the right things break, hey, anything can happen. But really, it's an old lineup with a lot of flawed players. Fowler is a useful piece, but his value is a little higher when he has a World Series MVP, two bonafide MVP candidates, and emerging stars like Russell, Soler, Contreras down in the lineup. Also, Fowler's defensvie WAR increased, which is nice. He's not a defensive liability by any stretch, but did it help that he got to play alongside Hayward and NotSchwarber for the whole season?
The thing about the Cardinals lineup this year and presumably next year is that is a deep lineup full of complementary players. With Carpenter on the wrong side of 30 and looking unlikely to top 5 wins again it is a lineup very short of stars, but it also lacks holes. They should have an average or above average (but not great) player at every spot. Just using the current fangraphs projections for next year:
Cubs projected position player fWAR
Contreras, C: 3.2
Rizzo, 1B: 5.7
Baez, 2B: 2.7
Russell, SS: 4.2
Bryant, 3B: 6.9 (very nice)
Schwarber, LF: 2.1
Heyward, CF: 3.1
Zobrist, RF: 3.1
Total of 31 wins from that group.
Cardinals:
Molina, C: 2.5
Carpenter, 1B: 2.8
Wong, 2B: 1.6
Peralta, 3B: 1.5
Diaz, SS: 2.8
Grichuk, LF: 1.8
Fowler, CF: 2.8
Piscotty, RF: 1.5
Total: 17.3
Now granted one is ZIPS vs Steamer, because the Cardinals ZIPs haven't come out yet but I doubt the difference between the two systems is gonna tack 14 wins or anything close to that onto the Cardinals projection. They have some solid bench pieces, too. They've got a lot of 1-2 win players they can plug and play all over the field, which is exactly what they had last year, and it got them to 86 wins. If they pitch better this year they could do better than that, but even with Fowler I think they score fewer runs than last year because they had abnormally high homer numbers across the board (including that ridiculous record number of pinch hit HRs they got) and Moss/Holliday are gone and Gyorko seems unlikely to do that again.
They also don't look particularly great defensively at any position. Fuck them.
Exactly, SKO. Also, Heyward's fWAR puts him tied for fifth on the Cubs, but he'd be a full 1/3d of a win better than the two best Cardinals position players, Carpenter and Fowler.
Quote from: SKO on December 15, 2016, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: Brownie on December 15, 2016, 10:29:19 AM
I look at the Cardinals' projected lineup, and they have nice supplementary players in the lineup. Sure, a few can have career years, and then you have a team that could capitalize on a bad Cubs 2017 and compete for the Division title. This team probably is in the wild card mix, especially if their pitching holds together.
The Cardinals lineup reminds me of a pre-2012 Cubs lineup. Good enough where you can think that if the right things break, hey, anything can happen. But really, it's an old lineup with a lot of flawed players. Fowler is a useful piece, but his value is a little higher when he has a World Series MVP, two bonafide MVP candidates, and emerging stars like Russell, Soler, Contreras down in the lineup. Also, Fowler's defensvie WAR increased, which is nice. He's not a defensive liability by any stretch, but did it help that he got to play alongside Hayward and NotSchwarber for the whole season?
The thing about the Cardinals lineup this year and presumably next year is that is a deep lineup full of complementary players. With Carpenter on the wrong side of 30 and looking unlikely to top 5 wins again it is a lineup very short of stars, but it also lacks holes. They should have an average or above average (but not great) player at every spot. Just using the current fangraphs projections for next year:
Cubs projected position player fWAR
Contreras, C: 3.2
Rizzo, 1B: 5.7
Baez, 2B: 2.7
Russell, SS: 4.2
Bryant, 3B: 6.9 (very nice)
Schwarber, LF: 2.1
Heyward, CF: 3.1
Zobrist, RF: 3.1
Total of 31 wins from that group.
Cardinals:
Molina, C: 2.5
Carpenter, 1B: 2.8
Wong, 2B: 1.6
Peralta, 3B: 1.5
Diaz, SS: 2.8
Grichuk, LF: 1.8
Fowler, CF: 2.8
Piscotty, RF: 1.5
Total: 17.3
Now granted one is ZIPS vs Steamer, because the Cardinals ZIPs haven't come out yet but I doubt the difference between the two systems is gonna tack 14 wins or anything close to that onto the Cardinals projection. They have some solid bench pieces, too. They've got a lot of 1-2 win players they can plug and play all over the field, which is exactly what they had last year, and it got them to 86 wins. If they pitch better this year they could do better than that, but even with Fowler I think they score fewer runs than last year because they had abnormally high homer numbers across the board (including that ridiculous record number of pinch hit HRs they got) and Moss/Holliday are gone and Gyorko seems unlikely to do that again.
They also don't look particularly great defensively at any position. Fuck them.
All I'm hearing is it's definitely "reasonably close to," if not as sexy as, Chicago's. That's all I need.
http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/03/david_price_boston_red_sox_lef_6.html
Trying to balance feeling bad about David Price cuz he seems like a legitimately nice dude with Red Sox schadenfreude (which is actually somewhat rational these days since the odds of a Cubs/Red Sox world series are better than zero), and so far the schadenfreude is winning. Wish it had been Sale.
Quote from: SKO on March 02, 2017, 09:18:03 AM
http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/03/david_price_boston_red_sox_lef_6.html
Trying to balance feeling bad about David Price cuz he seems like a legitimately nice dude with Red Sox schadenfreude (which is actually somewhat rational these days since the odds of a Cubs/Red Sox world series are better than zero), and so far the schadenfreude is winning. Wish it had been Sale.
If schadenfreude is what you're after, it would be better if Sale had a Kershaw year.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on March 02, 2017, 04:51:08 PM
Quote from: SKO on March 02, 2017, 09:18:03 AM
http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/03/david_price_boston_red_sox_lef_6.html
Trying to balance feeling bad about David Price cuz he seems like a legitimately nice dude with Red Sox schadenfreude (which is actually somewhat rational these days since the odds of a Cubs/Red Sox world series are better than zero), and so far the schadenfreude is winning. Wish it had been Sale.
If schadenfreude is what you're after, it would be better if Sale had a Kershaw year.
...only to lose Games 1 and 4 (on short rest) to the back-to-back World Series champs.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on March 02, 2017, 05:02:46 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on March 02, 2017, 04:51:08 PM
Quote from: SKO on March 02, 2017, 09:18:03 AM
http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/03/david_price_boston_red_sox_lef_6.html
Trying to balance feeling bad about David Price cuz he seems like a legitimately nice dude with Red Sox schadenfreude (which is actually somewhat rational these days since the odds of a Cubs/Red Sox world series are better than zero), and so far the schadenfreude is winning. Wish it had been Sale.
If schadenfreude is what you're after, it would be better if Sale had a Kershaw year.
...only to lose Games 1 and 4 (on short rest) to the back-to-back World Series champs.
And to have Price slowly return in 2018 and frustrate Red Sox brass, knowing he won't opt out of his deal, so after a rocky start to 2019 they agree to eat most of his salary and deal him for a song to the Chicago Cubs just in time for Price to have a late career revival at 33.