I'm not to firebarn stage but his wRC+ is back down to 84. Can he fucking hit at some point or no
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2017, 08:07:54 PM
I'm not to firebarn stage but his wRC+ is back down to 84. Can he fucking hit at some point or no
Is 6 days ago too long in the past.
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 04, 2017, 01:43:58 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2017, 08:07:54 PM
I'm not to firebarn stage but his wRC+ is back down to 84. Can he fucking hit at some point or no
Is 6 days ago too long in the past.
Nice to see 2016 Playoff SKO is coming back
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 04, 2017, 01:43:58 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2017, 08:07:54 PM
I'm not to firebarn stage but his wRC+ is back down to 84. Can he fucking hit at some point or no
Is 6 days ago too long in the past.
And yet despite that homer he has an 84 wRC+, almost as though seasons are made up of hundreds of plate appearances in aggregate
Quote from: Yeti on August 04, 2017, 04:53:28 AM
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 04, 2017, 01:43:58 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 03, 2017, 08:07:54 PM
I'm not to firebarn stage but his wRC+ is back down to 84. Can he fucking hit at some point or no
Is 6 days ago too long in the past.
Nice to see 2016 Playoff SKO is coming back
I mean sure, I guess. They're gonna win the division. I don't feel particularly doomish but is all criticism now banned due to the World Series win? Because otherwise I feel like Heyward now 2/3rds of the way to another subpar season might start to merit a little guff.
This is the meatballiest meatball to ever meatball.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 08:00:07 AM
This is the meatballiest meatball to ever meatball.
He ranks 19th out of 28 in qualified right fielders in fWAR, which accounts for his defense and baserunning. Offensively he's 36th out of 40 RFers with 200 PAs. I don't think it is meatball to want him to be better than that.
I mean if the official line is just going to be He Was a World Series Winning Cub, Lay Off, then fine, we should stop complaining about Lackey, too. Both were players who were negative WPA players in October, but Jason gave a speech, so fine. If criticism of any 2016 Cub is allowed I don't see how it's wrong to point out that the guy who ranks in the bottom 3rd of all right fielders is kinda bad.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:22:16 AM
I mean if the official line is just going to be He Was a World Series Winning Cub, Lay Off, then fine, we should stop complaining about Lackey, too. Both were players who were negative WPA players in October, but Jason gave a speech, so fine. If criticism of any 2016 Cub is allowed, then, I don't see how it's wrong to point out that the guy who ranks in the bottom 3rd of all right fielders is kinda bad.
So what makes his 84 wRC+ any worse than Addison Russell's? Or worse than Zobrist's 81?
Look, there are a bunch of guys who are going to the plate as if they're carrying Wiffle Ball bats. Singling out Heyward is pretty much begging for a bath in marinara sauce.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 08:29:36 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:22:16 AM
I mean if the official line is just going to be He Was a World Series Winning Cub, Lay Off, then fine, we should stop complaining about Lackey, too. Both were players who were negative WPA players in October, but Jason gave a speech, so fine. If criticism of any 2016 Cub is allowed, then, I don't see how it's wrong to point out that the guy who ranks in the bottom 3rd of all right fielders is kinda bad.
So what makes his 84 wRC+ any worse than Addison Russell's? Or worse than Zobrist's 81?
Look, there are a bunch of guys who are going to the plate as if they're carrying Wiffle Ball bats. Singling out Heyward is pretty much begging for a bath in marinara sauce.
Heyward, Schwarber, Baez and Zobrist are all going to have to hit better for this to be a repeat of the repeat.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 08:29:36 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:22:16 AM
I mean if the official line is just going to be He Was a World Series Winning Cub, Lay Off, then fine, we should stop complaining about Lackey, too. Both were players who were negative WPA players in October, but Jason gave a speech, so fine. If criticism of any 2016 Cub is allowed, then, I don't see how it's wrong to point out that the guy who ranks in the bottom 3rd of all right fielders is kinda bad.
So what makes his 84 wRC+ any worse than Addison Russell's? Or worse than Zobrist's 81?
Look, there are a bunch of guys who are going to the plate as if they're carrying Wiffle Ball bats. Singling out Heyward is pretty much begging for a bath in marinara sauce.
Addison Russell I am mostly just ignoring this year because I don't want to talk about him, but yeah I'm fine with pointing out that he sucks this year. Although he's ahead of Heyward in both fWAR (1.4 to 1.0) and bWAR (2.2 to 1.9).
Zobrist is a bummer but he's also old as shit, is on a much shorter deal, and plays basically the deepest position on the team where Joe has had no problem phasing him out whenever needed in favor of Javy or Happ. When you sign a 36 year old dude for the sole purpose of winning a world series with him, taking on the risk that he could go belly up fairly soon, you can only complain so much when that happens.
Heyward was given a mega-deal (and I try not to hold contracts against dudes, because you should take whatever deal you can get) because he was 26 and expected to be entering his prime and if he doesn't opt out (and at this point he sure as hell won't), they're stuck with him for 6 more years and he'll also probably prevent them from going after guys who could represent substantial upgrades, like Bryce Harper. He was signed on the basis of being an above average offensive player with an elite glove, and he's cratered to a well below average offensive player and is now just a below average player overall. We're also nearing 900 plate appearances of this shit. It's not a slump or a mirage. It appears to just be who he is now, new swing be damned.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 04, 2017, 08:38:06 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 08:29:36 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:22:16 AM
I mean if the official line is just going to be He Was a World Series Winning Cub, Lay Off, then fine, we should stop complaining about Lackey, too. Both were players who were negative WPA players in October, but Jason gave a speech, so fine. If criticism of any 2016 Cub is allowed, then, I don't see how it's wrong to point out that the guy who ranks in the bottom 3rd of all right fielders is kinda bad.
So what makes his 84 wRC+ any worse than Addison Russell's? Or worse than Zobrist's 81?
Look, there are a bunch of guys who are going to the plate as if they're carrying Wiffle Ball bats. Singling out Heyward is pretty much begging for a bath in marinara sauce.
Heyward, Schwarber, Baez and Zobrist are all going to have to hit better for this to be a repeat of the repeat.
Schwarber is at .258/.338/.561/.898 since he got called back up. His overall season line is dreadful enough to mask it but barring another regression if he just keeps hitting like this he's carrying his weight offensively.
Baez doesn't have to hit better than this. He's got a .788 OPS playing plus defense as a super utility guy. He's the same guy he was last year when they won. Last year he was surrounded by better hitters, though.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:39:26 AM
Heyward was given a mega-deal (and I try not to hold contracts against dudes, because you should take whatever deal you can get) because he was 26 and expected to be entering his prime and if he doesn't opt out (and at this point he sure as hell won't), they're stuck with him for 6 more years and he'll also probably prevent them from going after guys who could represent substantial upgrades, like Bryce Harper. He was signed on the basis of being an above average offensive player with an elite glove, and he's cratered to a well below average offensive player and is now just a below average player overall. We're also nearing 900 plate appearances of this shit. It's not a slump or a mirage. It appears to just be who he is now, new swing be damned.
Bryce Harper on the Cubs is not now, nor will ever be, anything more than a wet dream. And the Cubs, who were going for it before the 2016 season, weren't going to not sign the best RF available based a guy who may or may not be available after 2018.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 08:47:07 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:39:26 AM
Heyward was given a mega-deal (and I try not to hold contracts against dudes, because you should take whatever deal you can get) because he was 26 and expected to be entering his prime and if he doesn't opt out (and at this point he sure as hell won't), they're stuck with him for 6 more years and he'll also probably prevent them from going after guys who could represent substantial upgrades, like Bryce Harper. He was signed on the basis of being an above average offensive player with an elite glove, and he's cratered to a well below average offensive player and is now just a below average player overall. We're also nearing 900 plate appearances of this shit. It's not a slump or a mirage. It appears to just be who he is now, new swing be damned.
Bryce Harper on the Cubs is not now, nor will ever be, anything more than a wet dream. And the Cubs, who were going for it before the 2016 season, weren't going to not sign the best RF available based a guy who may or may not be available after 2018.
Can you explain why it's not realistic? Or wouldn't be if Heyward had opted out, etc. What makes you think the Cubs could not afford to pay him the same mega contract Boston or New York could offer. If they can't, shouldn't we ask why?
Also I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't have signed Heyward when they did. It was the right move. Heyward needed to hit though, so he could either A) Opt out or B) Be, I dunno, fuckin useful if he stayed.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Can you explain why it's not realistic? Or wouldn't be if Heyward had opted out, etc. What makes you think the Cubs could not afford to pay him the same mega contract Boston or New York could offer. If they can't, shouldn't we ask why?
Also I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't have signed Heyward when they did. It was the right move. Heyward needed to hit though, so he could either A) Opt out or B) Be, I dunno, fuckin useful if he stayed.
Why isn't it realiistic? Harper currently makes 21 mildo/year. Put him on the open market, and you're probably looking at something close to 10/300. Which sets the market for Bryant. So the Cubs could have $600 million committed to two guys, then what happens when Rizzo comes due? You are basically looking at the Angels, who have a half billion wrapped up in Pujols and Trout.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Can you explain why it's not realistic? Or wouldn't be if Heyward had opted out, etc. What makes you think the Cubs could not afford to pay him the same mega contract Boston or New York could offer. If they can't, shouldn't we ask why?
Also I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't have signed Heyward when they did. It was the right move. Heyward needed to hit though, so he could either A) Opt out or B) Be, I dunno, fuckin useful if he stayed.
Why isn't it realiistic? Harper currently makes 21 mildo/year. Put him on the open market, and you're probably looking at something close to 10/300. Which sets the market for Bryant. So the Cubs could have $600 million committed to two guys, then what happens when Rizzo comes due? You are basically looking at the Angels, who have a half billion wrapped up in Pujols and Trout.
Or you sign Harper, because he will be 25 when he hits FA (and it's probably gonna be more like 10/400) to a 10 year deal, and in the 3 years you have all three of Bryant/Rizzo/Harper together you win some rings, and then when Rizzo and Bryant hit FA, you decide if it makes sense to re-sign them both, or maybe you have someone else in the system, etc. There is no law that says they have to try and extend every one of those guys, in fact trying to do so is how you become the Phillies. The benefit of a 10 year contract for Harper is that he would only be 35 when it ended AND you'd get 3 years of playing him with Bryant and Rizzo before you even need to make that decision. Bryant won't be up for an extension until he's 29 years old, Rizzo will be in his 30s. Both of them would make a lot less sense as candidates for mega-contracts for the Cubs than Harper, sentimentality be damned. Plus, like I said, only the Harper mega-contract also buys you three years of all three of them together.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Can you explain why it's not realistic? Or wouldn't be if Heyward had opted out, etc. What makes you think the Cubs could not afford to pay him the same mega contract Boston or New York could offer. If they can't, shouldn't we ask why?
Also I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't have signed Heyward when they did. It was the right move. Heyward needed to hit though, so he could either A) Opt out or B) Be, I dunno, fuckin useful if he stayed.
Why isn't it realiistic? Harper currently makes 21 mildo/year. Put him on the open market, and you're probably looking at something close to 10/300. Which sets the market for Bryant. So the Cubs could have $600 million committed to two guys, then what happens when Rizzo comes due? You are basically looking at the Angels, who have a half billion wrapped up in Pujols and Trout.
This is like saying that Tommy and Hank Aaron have the most HRs by brothers in MLB history.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 10:28:06 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Can you explain why it's not realistic? Or wouldn't be if Heyward had opted out, etc. What makes you think the Cubs could not afford to pay him the same mega contract Boston or New York could offer. If they can't, shouldn't we ask why?
Also I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't have signed Heyward when they did. It was the right move. Heyward needed to hit though, so he could either A) Opt out or B) Be, I dunno, fuckin useful if he stayed.
Why isn't it realiistic? Harper currently makes 21 mildo/year. Put him on the open market, and you're probably looking at something close to 10/300. Which sets the market for Bryant. So the Cubs could have $600 million committed to two guys, then what happens when Rizzo comes due? You are basically looking at the Angels, who have a half billion wrapped up in Pujols and Trout.
Or you sign Harper, because he will be 25 when he hits FA (and it's probably gonna be more like 10/400) to a 10 year deal, and in the 3 years you have all three of Bryant/Rizzo/Harper together you win some rings, and then when Rizzo and Bryant hit FA, you decide if it makes sense to re-sign them both, or maybe you have someone else in the system, etc. There is no law that says they have to try and extend every one of those guys, in fact trying to do so is how you become the Phillies. The benefit of a 10 year contract for Harper is that he would only be 35 when it ended AND you'd get 3 years of playing him with Bryant and Rizzo before you even need to make that decision. Bryant won't be up for an extension until he's 29 years old, Rizzo will be in his 30s. Both of them would make a lot less sense as candidates for mega-contracts for the Cubs than Harper, sentimentality be damned. Plus, like I said, only the Harper mega-contract also buys you three years of all three of them together.
All this stuff is meaningless until we get some idea of the Cubs 2019 TV revenue. That talk's been very quiet of late. I do wonder if the dollars will still be there in two years or if they have to do an in-house streaming deal that the revenue isn't tied to a third party. Right now, if the Cubs go 0-162, WGN, WLS and Comcast are all on the hook for a fixed payment. If the streaming is in house, the Cubs are taking all the risk (and all the upside) that the cash will be there.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 08:29:36 AM
begging for a bath in marinara sauce.
I defy anyone to erase this picture from his head.
I can't believe you assholes are going to make me defend and agree with SKO.
I'm not sure they win the World Series without him and yeah, definitely always going to remember him for the Rain Delay Speech, which will go down forever in Cubs lore. Heyward seems like a good dude, great.
But I don't see the big deal with pointing out that this guy sucks.
He's here for another million years and a trillion dollars, so if he could not be completely shitty, that'd be great.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 10:28:06 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Can you explain why it's not realistic? Or wouldn't be if Heyward had opted out, etc. What makes you think the Cubs could not afford to pay him the same mega contract Boston or New York could offer. If they can't, shouldn't we ask why?
Also I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't have signed Heyward when they did. It was the right move. Heyward needed to hit though, so he could either A) Opt out or B) Be, I dunno, fuckin useful if he stayed.
Why isn't it realiistic? Harper currently makes 21 mildo/year. Put him on the open market, and you're probably looking at something close to 10/300. Which sets the market for Bryant. So the Cubs could have $600 million committed to two guys, then what happens when Rizzo comes due? You are basically looking at the Angels, who have a half billion wrapped up in Pujols and Trout.
Or you sign Harper, because he will be 25 when he hits FA (and it's probably gonna be more like 10/400) to a 10 year deal, and in the 3 years you have all three of Bryant/Rizzo/Harper together you win some rings, and then when Rizzo and Bryant hit FA, you decide if it makes sense to re-sign them both, or maybe you have someone else in the system, etc. There is no law that says they have to try and extend every one of those guys, in fact trying to do so is how you become the Phillies. The benefit of a 10 year contract for Harper is that he would only be 35 when it ended AND you'd get 3 years of playing him with Bryant and Rizzo before you even need to make that decision. Bryant won't be up for an extension until he's 29 years old, Rizzo will be in his 30s. Both of them would make a lot less sense as candidates for mega-contracts for the Cubs than Harper, sentimentality be damned. Plus, like I said, only the Harper mega-contract also buys you three years of all three of them together.
Do you honestly think that the Cubs are putting the amount of time and money into marketing Bryant and Rizzo to let either of them walk? This is still a business, and those two guys put an awful lot of butts into seats. Sure, Harper could do that as well, but it would be a pretty damn hard pivot now that Bryzzo is (are?) the face(s) of the franchise.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 10:28:06 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Can you explain why it's not realistic? Or wouldn't be if Heyward had opted out, etc. What makes you think the Cubs could not afford to pay him the same mega contract Boston or New York could offer. If they can't, shouldn't we ask why?
Also I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't have signed Heyward when they did. It was the right move. Heyward needed to hit though, so he could either A) Opt out or B) Be, I dunno, fuckin useful if he stayed.
Why isn't it realiistic? Harper currently makes 21 mildo/year. Put him on the open market, and you're probably looking at something close to 10/300. Which sets the market for Bryant. So the Cubs could have $600 million committed to two guys, then what happens when Rizzo comes due? You are basically looking at the Angels, who have a half billion wrapped up in Pujols and Trout.
Or you sign Harper, because he will be 25 when he hits FA (and it's probably gonna be more like 10/400) to a 10 year deal, and in the 3 years you have all three of Bryant/Rizzo/Harper together you win some rings, and then when Rizzo and Bryant hit FA, you decide if it makes sense to re-sign them both, or maybe you have someone else in the system, etc. There is no law that says they have to try and extend every one of those guys, in fact trying to do so is how you become the Phillies. The benefit of a 10 year contract for Harper is that he would only be 35 when it ended AND you'd get 3 years of playing him with Bryant and Rizzo before you even need to make that decision. Bryant won't be up for an extension until he's 29 years old, Rizzo will be in his 30s. Both of them would make a lot less sense as candidates for mega-contracts for the Cubs than Harper, sentimentality be damned. Plus, like I said, only the Harper mega-contract also buys you three years of all three of them together.
Do you honestly think that the Cubs are putting the amount of time and money into marketing Bryant and Rizzo to let either of them walk? This is still a business, and those two guys put an awful lot of butts into seats. Sure, Harper could do that as well, but it would be a pretty damn hard pivot now that Bryzzo is (are?) the face(s) of the franchise.
I think that if the best baseball move for the Cubs is to let those two walk rather than overpay them into their 40s, they will do that. Theo specifically left Boston because the business side was always thinking like that.
Also, those guys are the face of the franchise because they're really fucking good. Do you think fans are going to find Bryzzo as cute if they're both 36 and hitting like Zobrist? You can market a winning team no matter who is on it.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 10:28:06 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 10:20:18 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Can you explain why it's not realistic? Or wouldn't be if Heyward had opted out, etc. What makes you think the Cubs could not afford to pay him the same mega contract Boston or New York could offer. If they can't, shouldn't we ask why?
Also I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't have signed Heyward when they did. It was the right move. Heyward needed to hit though, so he could either A) Opt out or B) Be, I dunno, fuckin useful if he stayed.
Why isn't it realiistic? Harper currently makes 21 mildo/year. Put him on the open market, and you're probably looking at something close to 10/300. Which sets the market for Bryant. So the Cubs could have $600 million committed to two guys, then what happens when Rizzo comes due? You are basically looking at the Angels, who have a half billion wrapped up in Pujols and Trout.
Or you sign Harper, because he will be 25 when he hits FA (and it's probably gonna be more like 10/400) to a 10 year deal, and in the 3 years you have all three of Bryant/Rizzo/Harper together you win some rings, and then when Rizzo and Bryant hit FA, you decide if it makes sense to re-sign them both, or maybe you have someone else in the system, etc. There is no law that says they have to try and extend every one of those guys, in fact trying to do so is how you become the Phillies. The benefit of a 10 year contract for Harper is that he would only be 35 when it ended AND you'd get 3 years of playing him with Bryant and Rizzo before you even need to make that decision. Bryant won't be up for an extension until he's 29 years old, Rizzo will be in his 30s. Both of them would make a lot less sense as candidates for mega-contracts for the Cubs than Harper, sentimentality be damned. Plus, like I said, only the Harper mega-contract also buys you three years of all three of them together.
Do you honestly think that the Cubs are putting the amount of time and money into marketing Bryant and Rizzo to let either of them walk? This is still a business, and those two guys put an awful lot of butts into seats. Sure, Harper could do that as well, but it would be a pretty damn hard pivot now that Bryzzo is (are?) the face(s) of the franchise.
I think that if the best baseball move for the Cubs is to let those two walk rather than overpay them into their 40s, they will do that. Theo specifically left Boston because the business side was always thinking like that.
Also, those guys are the face of the franchise because they're really fucking good. Do you think fans are going to find Bryzzo as cute if they're both 36 and hitting like Zobrist? You can market a winning team no matter who is on it.
Still laughing about the idea that marketing strategies, which can never adapt to changed personnel ever and the player personnel operation couldn't give two shits about, are driving the baseball decisions being made by THEO EPSTEIN OF ALL PEOPLE.
Theo: "Sorry, Jed. Pencils down. We're going to have to scuttle that Bryce Harper deal. Marketing has informed me that it Wasn't Cub enough. Call his agent and wish him the best in New York or St. Louis."
Theo: "Look, Clayton, we're flattered that you opted out of your Dodgers contract because you wanted to chase a World Series ring after we won the last three, but I've got a warehouse full of Jake Arrieta bobbleheads that aren't going to sell themselves. Here, let me give you Mike Rizzo's number."
Christ, fork has managed to ally me, Pen, and Sterling Goodman together. That's how wrong he is here.
It's the same thing that THE GREAT SCOTTIE BOWMAN would never stand for in Chicago.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 01:29:32 PM
Christ, fork has managed to ally me, Pen, and Sterling Goodman together. That's how wrong he is here.
I'm just stopping in to marvel at this moment, since now I'm also in this alliance.
.698 OPS.
Quote from: Bort on August 04, 2017, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 01:29:32 PM
Christ, fork has managed to ally me, Pen, and Sterling Goodman together. That's how wrong he is here.
I'm just stopping in to marvel at this moment, since now I'm also in this alliance.
Trump's America, man.
Quote from: SKO on August 04, 2017, 02:38:43 PM
.698 OPS.
Nice.
Anyway, I wasn't referring, specifically, to your valid criticism of Heyward. I was more referring to you emoting all over the board yesterday.
Also, is it irony that Fork, the master of the blustery prognostication, is saying there's no way Harper is a Cub?
Fork is right. The only way Harper shows up here is if he and Bryant each take a "We really want to play on the same team and beat the hell out of the NL" discount. More than a few teams (Yankees, Dodgers, an Angel-esque team) will be more than happy to overpay him, and what's the marginal value of adding Harper at the expense of Rizzo and/or Bryant and payroll flexibility?
Quote from: Brownie on August 04, 2017, 04:12:23 PM
Fork is right. The only way Harper shows up here is if he and Bryant each take a "We really want to play on the same team and beat the hell out of the NL" discount. More than a few teams (Yankees, Dodgers, an Angel-esque team) will be more than happy to overpay him, and what's the marginal value of adding Harper at the expense of Rizzo and/or Bryant and payroll flexibility?
What you
could do, I suppose, is operate under the assumption that Bryant/Boros have no desire to stay with the Cubs as fallout from the Cubs keeping Bryant in the minors in 2015 for the sake of another years' control. So under those circumstances it makes sense to pay 40 mildo a year to Harper who is represented by...Boros.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 04:45:36 PM
Quote from: Brownie on August 04, 2017, 04:12:23 PM
Fork is right. The only way Harper shows up here is if he and Bryant each take a "We really want to play on the same team and beat the hell out of the NL" discount. More than a few teams (Yankees, Dodgers, an Angel-esque team) will be more than happy to overpay him, and what's the marginal value of adding Harper at the expense of Rizzo and/or Bryant and payroll flexibility?
What you could do, I suppose, is operate under the assumption that Bryant/Boros have no desire to stay with the Cubs as fallout from the Cubs keeping Bryant in the minors in 2015 for the sake of another years' control. So under those circumstances it makes sense to pay 40 mildo a year to Harper who is represented by...Boros.
Who's Boros?
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 04, 2017, 10:56:45 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 04:45:36 PM
Quote from: Brownie on August 04, 2017, 04:12:23 PM
Fork is right. The only way Harper shows up here is if he and Bryant each take a "We really want to play on the same team and beat the hell out of the NL" discount. More than a few teams (Yankees, Dodgers, an Angel-esque team) will be more than happy to overpay him, and what's the marginal value of adding Harper at the expense of Rizzo and/or Bryant and payroll flexibility?
What you could do, I suppose, is operate under the assumption that Bryant/Boros have no desire to stay with the Cubs as fallout from the Cubs keeping Bryant in the minors in 2015 for the sake of another years' control. So under those circumstances it makes sense to pay 40 mildo a year to Harper who is represented by...Boros.
Who's Boros?
Bullpen catcher.
Quote from: Tonker on August 05, 2017, 01:44:56 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 04, 2017, 10:56:45 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 04, 2017, 04:45:36 PM
Quote from: Brownie on August 04, 2017, 04:12:23 PM
Fork is right. The only way Harper shows up here is if he and Bryant each take a "We really want to play on the same team and beat the hell out of the NL" discount. More than a few teams (Yankees, Dodgers, an Angel-esque team) will be more than happy to overpay him, and what's the marginal value of adding Harper at the expense of Rizzo and/or Bryant and payroll flexibility?
What you could do, I suppose, is operate under the assumption that Bryant/Boros have no desire to stay with the Cubs as fallout from the Cubs keeping Bryant in the minors in 2015 for the sake of another years' control. So under those circumstances it makes sense to pay 40 mildo a year to Harper who is represented by...Boros.
Who's Boros?
Bullpen catcher.
I swaw him with Natorsha.
Nice fuckin catch, shithead
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:08:44 PM
Nice fuckin catch, shithead
#HEYWARDFORSTANTONNOW #EPSTINKISTERRIBLE
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 16, 2017, 10:10:48 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:08:44 PM
Nice fuckin catch, shithead
#HEYWARDFORSTANTONNOW #EPSTINKISTERRIBLE
If he's gonna put up a fuckin .697 OPS than he'd better catch everything
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:08:44 PM
Nice fuckin catch, shithead
You swear a lot at baseball players
Quote from: Cannonball Titcomb on August 17, 2017, 08:49:34 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 16, 2017, 10:08:44 PM
Nice fuckin catch, shithead
You swear a lot at baseball players
(https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E07/776074.jpg?b64lines=IEkgRE9OJ1QgS05PVy4gCkdPVFRBIFNXRUFSIEFUIFNPTUVUSElOJw==)
FYSKO
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 18, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
FYSKO
For a routine ground ball to the 1st baseman when the pitcher forgot to cover the bag? We used to have standards for these things.
Quote from: SKO on August 18, 2017, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 18, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
FYSKO
For a routine ground ball to the 1st baseman when the pitcher forgot to cover the bag? We used to have standards for these things.
And we do for Heyward too!
Quote from: A. Baldheaded Prick on August 18, 2017, 02:00:46 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 18, 2017, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 18, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
FYSKO
For a routine ground ball to the 1st baseman when the pitcher forgot to cover the bag? We used to have standards for these things.
And we do for Heyward too!
Come on. The green font was so heavily implied my entire phone screen turned green.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 18, 2017, 02:28:27 PM
Quote from: A. Baldheaded Prick on August 18, 2017, 02:00:46 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 18, 2017, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 18, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
FYSKO
For a routine ground ball to the 1st baseman when the pitcher forgot to cover the bag? We used to have standards for these things.
And we do for Heyward too!
Come on. The green font was so heavily implied my entire phone screen turned green.
It occurred to me you may have been sarcastic after I responded but the first law of the internet is to interpret with minimal good faith and attack with maximum rhetorical force.
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Look at that OBP though! Good thing this thread wasn't named Can Jason Heyward Fucking Get On Base Ever.
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Most people do BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
Please tell me you transposed #2 and #3.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 25, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Most people do BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
Please tell me you transposed #2 and #3.
Yeah yeah yeah it's cherry picking dates, but since Heyward signed there's basically been one 60 day period where he hasn't been a godawful awful offensive player. Even his good stretch didn't result in an .800 OPS.
May 23-July 23 of this season (209 PAs): .279/.311/.457/.768
All other games as a Cub (754 PAs): .234/.311/.326/.637
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 25, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Most people do BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
Please tell me you transposed #2 and #3.
I did not! He's done some serious limp dick single slappin lately.
Quote from: R-V on August 25, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 25, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Most people do BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
Please tell me you transposed #2 and #3.
Yeah yeah yeah it's cherry picking dates, but since Heyward signed there's basically been one 60 day period where he hasn't been a godawful awful offensive player. Even his good stretch didn't result in an .800 OPS.
May 23-July 23 of this season (209 PAs): .279/.311/.457/.768
All other games as a Cub (754 PAs): .234/.311/.326/.637
Yeah, I mean someday when he is gone I suspect my nostalgic good feelings about him being even a tiny, miniscule, technically negative (if you go by WPA in the postseason at least) part of the first Cubs title in 108 years will outweigh my disappointment in what a colossal bust he has been. Right now, as I have to watch him go up there and no longer even take walks as he slaps into 4-3 put out after 4-3 put out, I can't help but want to yell loudly at him.
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: R-V on August 25, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 25, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Most people do BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
Please tell me you transposed #2 and #3.
Yeah yeah yeah it's cherry picking dates, but since Heyward signed there's basically been one 60 day period where he hasn't been a godawful awful offensive player. Even his good stretch didn't result in an .800 OPS.
May 23-July 23 of this season (209 PAs): .279/.311/.457/.768
All other games as a Cub (754 PAs): .234/.311/.326/.637
Yeah, I mean someday when he is gone I suspect my nostalgic good feelings about him being even a tiny, miniscule, technically negative (if you go by WPA in the postseason at least) part of the first Cubs title in 108 years will outweigh my disappointment in what a colossal bust he has been. Right now, as I have to watch him go up there and no longer even take walks as he slaps into 4-3 put out after 4-3 put out, I can't help but want to yell loudly at him.
Speaking of colossal busts, whatever happened to that lardass Christina Hendricks, amirite?
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: R-V on August 25, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 25, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Most people do BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
Please tell me you transposed #2 and #3.
Yeah yeah yeah it's cherry picking dates, but since Heyward signed there's basically been one 60 day period where he hasn't been a godawful awful offensive player. Even his good stretch didn't result in an .800 OPS.
May 23-July 23 of this season (209 PAs): .279/.311/.457/.768
All other games as a Cub (754 PAs): .234/.311/.326/.637
Yeah, I mean someday when he is gone I suspect my nostalgic good feelings about him being even a tiny, miniscule, technically negative (if you go by WPA in the postseason at least) part of the first Cubs title in 108 years will outweigh my disappointment in what a colossal bust he has been. Right now, as I have to watch him go up there and no longer even take walks as he slaps into 4-3 put out after 4-3 put out, I can't help but want to yell loudly at him.
It's quite something. I don't know what the stats say, but my own eyes tell me that his ability to ground out weakly to second base is truly exceptional.
Quote from: Tonker on August 26, 2017, 03:53:32 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: R-V on August 25, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 25, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Most people do BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
Please tell me you transposed #2 and #3.
Yeah yeah yeah it's cherry picking dates, but since Heyward signed there's basically been one 60 day period where he hasn't been a godawful awful offensive player. Even his good stretch didn't result in an .800 OPS.
May 23-July 23 of this season (209 PAs): .279/.311/.457/.768
All other games as a Cub (754 PAs): .234/.311/.326/.637
Yeah, I mean someday when he is gone I suspect my nostalgic good feelings about him being even a tiny, miniscule, technically negative (if you go by WPA in the postseason at least) part of the first Cubs title in 108 years will outweigh my disappointment in what a colossal bust he has been. Right now, as I have to watch him go up there and no longer even take walks as he slaps into 4-3 put out after 4-3 put out, I can't help but want to yell loudly at him.
It's quite something. I don't know what the stats say, but my own eyes tell me that his ability to ground out weakly to second base is truly exceptional.
By the time he steps to the plate, he is 60% of the way toward grounding out to second base already. That is absolutely staggering.
Quote from: Tonker on August 26, 2017, 03:53:32 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: R-V on August 25, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 25, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Most people do BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
Please tell me you transposed #2 and #3.
Yeah yeah yeah it's cherry picking dates, but since Heyward signed there's basically been one 60 day period where he hasn't been a godawful awful offensive player. Even his good stretch didn't result in an .800 OPS.
May 23-July 23 of this season (209 PAs): .279/.311/.457/.768
All other games as a Cub (754 PAs): .234/.311/.326/.637
Yeah, I mean someday when he is gone I suspect my nostalgic good feelings about him being even a tiny, miniscule, technically negative (if you go by WPA in the postseason at least) part of the first Cubs title in 108 years will outweigh my disappointment in what a colossal bust he has been. Right now, as I have to watch him go up there and no longer even take walks as he slaps into 4-3 put out after 4-3 put out, I can't help but want to yell loudly at him.
It's quite something. I don't know what the stats say, but my own eyes tell me that his ability to ground out weakly to second base is truly exceptional.
Also adept at popping up on the infield.
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Now .243/.329/.271 since this thread began. Sad part is if you go back to July 23rd, it gets worse (.212/.291/.263/.554). He's every bit as putrid as he was last year, if not worse, and without a 200 game lead in the division to make it tolerable I'd sure like Joe to decide to sit him sometime before the middle of October this year.
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 09:15:11 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Now .243/.329/.271 since this thread began. Sad part is if you go back to July 23rd, it gets worse (.212/.291/.263/.554). He's every bit as putrid as he was last year, if not worse, and without a 200 game lead in the division to make it tolerable I'd sure like Joe to decide to sit him sometime before the middle of October this year.
Even with his puny 1.2 WAR, Joe really doesn't have a lot of options out there. Although, with Zobrist's wrist seemingly healthy, putting Zobrist in RF while Heyward takes a few days off might not be the worst idea in the world.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 28, 2017, 09:28:23 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 09:15:11 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Now .243/.329/.271 since this thread began. Sad part is if you go back to July 23rd, it gets worse (.212/.291/.263/.554). He's every bit as putrid as he was last year, if not worse, and without a 200 game lead in the division to make it tolerable I'd sure like Joe to decide to sit him sometime before the middle of October this year.
Even with his puny 1.2 WAR, Joe really doesn't have a lot of options out there. Although, with Zobrist's wrist seemingly healthy, putting Zobrist in RF while Heyward takes a few days off might not be the worst idea in the world.
Zobrist is starting to hit, that opens up a lot of options. Could put Zobrist in RF, Happ/Almora platoon in CF. Could put Zobrist at 2B, La Stella at 3rd, Kris in the OF. If Russell is gonna be back soon that allows more flexibility with how they use Javy. Lots of Heyward-less options out there.
A photoshop of Jason Heyward's face in place of Jack Nicholson's peering through the axe-made hole in the door from "The Shining" please. I can't believe he's come all the way back to 2016 Heyward after all this.
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 28, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
If you scale it down to 2,300 Plate Appearances you might have a comp in Ellis Valentine (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valenel01.shtml).
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 28, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
If you scale it down to 2,300 Plate Appearances you might have a comp in Ellis Valentine (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valenel01.shtml).
In Ellis case it sounds like he was undone by a series of injuries and he apparently had some substance abuse issues. What's bizarre about Heyward is that nothing physical seems to have changed, he just sucked. Whatever the Cubs did to try and "unlock more power" in his swing before 2016 seems to have broken him forever.
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 10:25:16 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 28, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
If you scale it down to 2,300 Plate Appearances you might have a comp in Ellis Valentine (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valenel01.shtml).
In Ellis case it sounds like he was undone by a series of injuries and he apparently had some substance abuse issues. What's bizarre about Heyward is that nothing physical seems to have changed, he just sucked. Whatever the Cubs did to try and "unlock more power" in his swing before 2016 seems to have broken him forever.
Actually Ellis may have been done in by 1 particular injury--when he was beaned in the face. When he came back he had the half-a-facemask thing and in spite of the added security was never the same hitter. The suggestion at the time is that Valentine never "got over" the beaning.
Hasn't the same been suggested for Heyward?
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 10:25:16 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 28, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
If you scale it down to 2,300 Plate Appearances you might have a comp in Ellis Valentine (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valenel01.shtml).
In Ellis case it sounds like he was undone by a series of injuries and he apparently had some substance abuse issues. What's bizarre about Heyward is that nothing physical seems to have changed, he just sucked. Whatever the Cubs did to try and "unlock more power" in his swing before 2016 seems to have broken him forever.
Actually Ellis may have been done in by 1 particular injury--when he was beaned in the face. When he came back he had the half-a-facemask thing and in spite of the added security was never the same hitter. The suggestion at the time is that Valentine never "got over" the beaning.
Hasn't the same been suggested for Heyward?
He was still a 6 win guy with St. Louis, post-beaning.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 28, 2017, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 10:25:16 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 28, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
If you scale it down to 2,300 Plate Appearances you might have a comp in Ellis Valentine (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valenel01.shtml).
In Ellis case it sounds like he was undone by a series of injuries and he apparently had some substance abuse issues. What's bizarre about Heyward is that nothing physical seems to have changed, he just sucked. Whatever the Cubs did to try and "unlock more power" in his swing before 2016 seems to have broken him forever.
Actually Ellis may have been done in by 1 particular injury--when he was beaned in the face. When he came back he had the half-a-facemask thing and in spite of the added security was never the same hitter. The suggestion at the time is that Valentine never "got over" the beaning.
Hasn't the same been suggested for Heyward?
He was still a 6 win guy with St. Louis, post-beaning.
Yeah, I knew the story didn't totally line up. Fuck.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 28, 2017, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 10:25:16 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 28, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
If you scale it down to 2,300 Plate Appearances you might have a comp in Ellis Valentine (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valenel01.shtml).
In Ellis case it sounds like he was undone by a series of injuries and he apparently had some substance abuse issues. What's bizarre about Heyward is that nothing physical seems to have changed, he just sucked. Whatever the Cubs did to try and "unlock more power" in his swing before 2016 seems to have broken him forever.
Actually Ellis may have been done in by 1 particular injury--when he was beaned in the face. When he came back he had the half-a-facemask thing and in spite of the added security was never the same hitter. The suggestion at the time is that Valentine never "got over" the beaning.
Hasn't the same been suggested for Heyward?
He was still a 6 win guy with St. Louis, post-beaning.
Yeah, I knew the story didn't totally line up. Fuck.
I try not to be one of the guys that assigns too much credit or blame for anything to a hitting coach but I do think it is really worth asking if John Mallee maybe just fucked him up forever by adding that toe tap and all of the crap to unlock his power in 2016. Even this offseason when they "rebuilt" his swing they supposedly tried to get him to mimic Rizzo, to go back to his mechanics from 2012 when he hit 27 homers, etc. I think maybe they could have just let him go back to whatever it was he was doing in 2015, forget about getting more power out of him etc. 2015 Heyward was a really fucking good hitter, even if he only hit 14 homers or whatever.
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 10:46:14 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 28, 2017, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 10:25:16 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 28, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
If you scale it down to 2,300 Plate Appearances you might have a comp in Ellis Valentine (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valenel01.shtml).
In Ellis case it sounds like he was undone by a series of injuries and he apparently had some substance abuse issues. What's bizarre about Heyward is that nothing physical seems to have changed, he just sucked. Whatever the Cubs did to try and "unlock more power" in his swing before 2016 seems to have broken him forever.
Actually Ellis may have been done in by 1 particular injury--when he was beaned in the face. When he came back he had the half-a-facemask thing and in spite of the added security was never the same hitter. The suggestion at the time is that Valentine never "got over" the beaning.
Hasn't the same been suggested for Heyward?
He was still a 6 win guy with St. Louis, post-beaning.
Yeah, I knew the story didn't totally line up. Fuck.
I try not to be one of the guys that assigns too much credit or blame for anything to a hitting coach but I do think it is really worth asking if John Mallee maybe just fucked him up forever by adding that toe tap and all of the crap to unlock his power in 2016. Even this offseason when they "rebuilt" his swing they supposedly tried to get him to mimic Rizzo, to go back to his mechanics from 2012 when he hit 27 homers, etc. I think maybe they could have just let him go back to whatever it was he was doing in 2015, forget about getting more power out of him etc. 2015 Heyward was a really fucking good hitter, even if he only hit 14 homers or whatever.
I know it would be fucking awesome to have 8 guys in the lineup capable of hitting 20+ HR, but maybe we should be happy with 6 (once Happ hits one more), and just have other guys get on base.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 28, 2017, 10:58:52 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 10:46:14 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 28, 2017, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 10:25:16 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 28, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 28, 2017, 10:03:02 AM
Has there ever been a player that was hitting .268/.353/.431/.784 with an OPS+ of 114 for his first 3000 ABs of his career through age 25 who then went in the shitter this bad? .239/.310/.344/.654 OPS+ 73. Drops of -.029/-.043/-.087.
If you scale it down to 2,300 Plate Appearances you might have a comp in Ellis Valentine (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valenel01.shtml).
In Ellis case it sounds like he was undone by a series of injuries and he apparently had some substance abuse issues. What's bizarre about Heyward is that nothing physical seems to have changed, he just sucked. Whatever the Cubs did to try and "unlock more power" in his swing before 2016 seems to have broken him forever.
Actually Ellis may have been done in by 1 particular injury--when he was beaned in the face. When he came back he had the half-a-facemask thing and in spite of the added security was never the same hitter. The suggestion at the time is that Valentine never "got over" the beaning.
Hasn't the same been suggested for Heyward?
He was still a 6 win guy with St. Louis, post-beaning.
Yeah, I knew the story didn't totally line up. Fuck.
I try not to be one of the guys that assigns too much credit or blame for anything to a hitting coach but I do think it is really worth asking if John Mallee maybe just fucked him up forever by adding that toe tap and all of the crap to unlock his power in 2016. Even this offseason when they "rebuilt" his swing they supposedly tried to get him to mimic Rizzo, to go back to his mechanics from 2012 when he hit 27 homers, etc. I think maybe they could have just let him go back to whatever it was he was doing in 2015, forget about getting more power out of him etc. 2015 Heyward was a really fucking good hitter, even if he only hit 14 homers or whatever.
I know it would be fucking awesome to have 8 guys in the lineup capable of hitting 20+ HR, but maybe we should be happy with 6 (once Happ hits one more), and just have other guys get on base.
Yeah, I mean I understand the experiment, just like when they tried to teach Castro how to take pitches and walk/drive the ball in 2013. It was worth a shot. The second it failed so miserably though they should have done just what Renteria did with Castro in 2014 and told him to just go back to whatever felt right. They tried to tweak his 2015 swing to get more power in 2016, and broke it. Then when they tried to fix it they looked back to film of the year when he hit 27 dingers and asked him to do that again. They didn't just tell him to go back to what felt right the year before.
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 09:43:28 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 28, 2017, 09:28:23 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 09:15:11 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Now .243/.329/.271 since this thread began. Sad part is if you go back to July 23rd, it gets worse (.212/.291/.263/.554). He's every bit as putrid as he was last year, if not worse, and without a 200 game lead in the division to make it tolerable I'd sure like Joe to decide to sit him sometime before the middle of October this year.
Even with his puny 1.2 WAR, Joe really doesn't have a lot of options out there. Although, with Zobrist's wrist seemingly healthy, putting Zobrist in RF while Heyward takes a few days off might not be the worst idea in the world.
Zobrist is starting to hit, that opens up a lot of options. Could put Zobrist in RF, Happ/Almora platoon in CF. Could put Zobrist at 2B, La Stella at 3rd, Kris in the OF. If Russell is gonna be back soon that allows more flexibility with how they use Javy. Lots of Heyward-less options out there.
My vote, which doesn't matter, goes for playing La Stella more. He's red-hot right now. Bring in Heyward with late leads and move Bryant back to 3B but get that stick in the lineup please.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 28, 2017, 11:18:52 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 09:43:28 AM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 28, 2017, 09:28:23 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 28, 2017, 09:15:11 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 25, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 25, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
What's Heyward's slash line since this thread started?
.270/.352/.302/.654
Shitty.
Now .243/.329/.271 since this thread began. Sad part is if you go back to July 23rd, it gets worse (.212/.291/.263/.554). He's every bit as putrid as he was last year, if not worse, and without a 200 game lead in the division to make it tolerable I'd sure like Joe to decide to sit him sometime before the middle of October this year.
Even with his puny 1.2 WAR, Joe really doesn't have a lot of options out there. Although, with Zobrist's wrist seemingly healthy, putting Zobrist in RF while Heyward takes a few days off might not be the worst idea in the world.
Zobrist is starting to hit, that opens up a lot of options. Could put Zobrist in RF, Happ/Almora platoon in CF. Could put Zobrist at 2B, La Stella at 3rd, Kris in the OF. If Russell is gonna be back soon that allows more flexibility with how they use Javy. Lots of Heyward-less options out there.
My vote, which doesn't matter, goes for playing La Stella more. He's red-hot right now. Bring in Heyward with late leads and move Bryant back to 3B but get that stick in the lineup please.
I know they're different guys, but my fear about LaStella getting more than spot starts and late-inning pinch hitting is that he turns into Mike Fontenot 2.0.
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
some of those hits have been very cheap. I mean I hope he can keep hitting but I'm not sold yet that anything other than BABIP has changed for the most part. I'd also like to see him learn how to take walks again.
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 07:33:18 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
some of those hits have been very cheap. I mean I hope he can keep hitting but I'm not sold yet that anything other than BABIP has changed for the most part. I'd also like to see him learn how to take walks again.
His exit velocities have been fine for school zones.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 30, 2017, 08:44:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 07:33:18 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
some of those hits have been very cheap. I mean I hope he can keep hitting but I'm not sold yet that anything other than BABIP has changed for the most part. I'd also like to see him learn how to take walks again.
His exit velocities have been fine for school zones.
Yeah going back to the start of the series in Cinncinnati when he also had a couple of multi-hit games he has a .037 ISO, 1 XBH, a hard-hit rate of just 20% and a soft-hit rate of 40%. Even if you narrowed it all of the way down to just the last two games, an even more useless sample size, he's still got a 42.9% soft hit rate vs just 28.6% hard, which is below his last good season.
So yeah, nothing's changed. Some bloopers have found holes. Fuck him. When Addison and Willson are back I hope he finds himself glued to the bench for anything other than late inning defense.
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 09:20:14 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 30, 2017, 08:44:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 07:33:18 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
some of those hits have been very cheap. I mean I hope he can keep hitting but I'm not sold yet that anything other than BABIP has changed for the most part. I'd also like to see him learn how to take walks again.
His exit velocities have been fine for school zones.
Yeah going back to the start of the series in Cinncinnati when he also had a couple of multi-hit games he has a .037 ISO, 1 XBH, a hard-hit rate of just 20% and a soft-hit rate of 40%. Even if you narrowed it all of the way down to just the last two games, an even more useless sample size, he's still got a 42.9% soft hit rate vs just 28.6% hard, which is below his last good season.
So yeah, nothing's changed. Some bloopers have found holes. Fuck him. When Addison and Willson are back I hope he finds himself glued to the bench for anything other than late inning defense.
I'm less "fuck him" than "what the fuck happened to him?" He doesn't appear to have gone "I got da money, now... BURP!" He's no McStiff. At least, not from appearances.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 30, 2017, 09:50:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 09:20:14 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 30, 2017, 08:44:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 07:33:18 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
some of those hits have been very cheap. I mean I hope he can keep hitting but I'm not sold yet that anything other than BABIP has changed for the most part. I'd also like to see him learn how to take walks again.
His exit velocities have been fine for school zones.
Yeah going back to the start of the series in Cinncinnati when he also had a couple of multi-hit games he has a .037 ISO, 1 XBH, a hard-hit rate of just 20% and a soft-hit rate of 40%. Even if you narrowed it all of the way down to just the last two games, an even more useless sample size, he's still got a 42.9% soft hit rate vs just 28.6% hard, which is below his last good season.
So yeah, nothing's changed. Some bloopers have found holes. Fuck him. When Addison and Willson are back I hope he finds himself glued to the bench for anything other than late inning defense.
I'm less "fuck him" than "what the fuck happened to him?" He doesn't appear to have gone "I got da money, now... BURP!" He's no McStiff. At least, not from appearances.
I mean he seems like a good dude. If I saw him in the street or even went to a game I would not boo him or fling feces at him like I would Milton Bradley. But that's Jason Heyward, The Man. Jason Heyward, the Non Player Character in the RPG called Major League Baseball that I do not view as a human being so much as a cog in a machine? fuck that guy. He sucks.
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 07:33:18 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
some of those hits have been very cheap. I mean I hope he can keep hitting but I'm not sold yet that anything other than BABIP has changed for the most part. I'd also like to see him learn how to take walks again.
I assumed that pitchers were just pumping strikes at him because he's become Billy Hamilton minus the stolen bases, but he's seeing 43.5% strikes vs. 42.4% career (and 44.8% last year). The problem is he's hacking at everything: 47.5% swing rate this year vs. 43% career and 41.3% last year.
Quote from: Shooter on August 30, 2017, 09:56:05 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 07:33:18 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
some of those hits have been very cheap. I mean I hope he can keep hitting but I'm not sold yet that anything other than BABIP has changed for the most part. I'd also like to see him learn how to take walks again.
I assumed that pitchers were just pumping strikes at him because he's become Billy Hamilton minus the stolen bases, but he's seeing 43.5% strikes vs. 42.4% career (and 44.8% last year). The problem is he's hacking at everything: 47.5% swing rate this year vs. 43% career and 41.3% last year.
It sounds like part of their advice to him was that last year he was too passive on good pitches early in the count and they wanted him to be more aggressive. So early on he was able to get some hits by swinging away at pitchers who were just pumping strikes, like you said. Once pitchers have adjusted and stopped giving him stuff to hit early in accounts he didn't adjust and start taking walks again, he just kept swinging at garbage.
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 30, 2017, 09:50:24 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 09:20:14 AM
Quote from: Chuck to Chuck on August 30, 2017, 08:44:40 AM
Quote from: SKO on August 30, 2017, 07:33:18 AM
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Back-to-back multi-hit games, solid contact, line drives and hitting to all fields.
So are we just getting fooled again or can Slappy ride this the rest of the year?
some of those hits have been very cheap. I mean I hope he can keep hitting but I'm not sold yet that anything other than BABIP has changed for the most part. I'd also like to see him learn how to take walks again.
His exit velocities have been fine for school zones.
Yeah going back to the start of the series in Cinncinnati when he also had a couple of multi-hit games he has a .037 ISO, 1 XBH, a hard-hit rate of just 20% and a soft-hit rate of 40%. Even if you narrowed it all of the way down to just the last two games, an even more useless sample size, he's still got a 42.9% soft hit rate vs just 28.6% hard, which is below his last good season.
So yeah, nothing's changed. Some bloopers have found holes. Fuck him. When Addison and Willson are back I hope he finds himself glued to the bench for anything other than late inning defense.
I'm less "fuck him" than "what the fuck happened to him?" He doesn't appear to have gone "I got da money, now... BURP!" He's no McStiff. At least, not from appearances.
I thought you thought they all looked alike.
This (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20485188/inside-method-joe-maddon-lineup-madness) is not the revelatory piece BN made it out to be (http://www.bleachernation.com/2017/08/29/must-read-of-the-day-how-joe-maddon-constructs-the-lineup/), but I was intrigued by this:
Quote
"I like Heyward in the 7-hole. He's been really productive," Maddon says.
Batting 7th, 2017: .266/.319/.375. Sigh.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 30, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
This (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20485188/inside-method-joe-maddon-lineup-madness) is not the revelatory piece BN made it out to be (http://www.bleachernation.com/2017/08/29/must-read-of-the-day-how-joe-maddon-constructs-the-lineup/), but I was intrigued by this:
Quote
"I like Heyward in the 7-hole. He's been really productive," Maddon says.
Batting 7th, 2017: .266/.319/.375. Sigh.
In fairness to Joe, what's he supposed to say? "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, so I put him where he does the least amount of damage"?
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 30, 2017, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 30, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
This (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20485188/inside-method-joe-maddon-lineup-madness) is not the revelatory piece BN made it out to be (http://www.bleachernation.com/2017/08/29/must-read-of-the-day-how-joe-maddon-constructs-the-lineup/), but I was intrigued by this:
Quote
"I like Heyward in the 7-hole. He's been really productive," Maddon says.
Batting 7th, 2017: .266/.319/.375. Sigh.
In fairness to Joe, what's he supposed to say? "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, so I put him where he does the least amount of damage"?
Actually I'm annoyed that he's still batting 7th ahead of Baez.
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 30, 2017, 03:13:22 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 30, 2017, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 30, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
This (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20485188/inside-method-joe-maddon-lineup-madness) is not the revelatory piece BN made it out to be (http://www.bleachernation.com/2017/08/29/must-read-of-the-day-how-joe-maddon-constructs-the-lineup/), but I was intrigued by this:
Quote
"I like Heyward in the 7-hole. He's been really productive," Maddon says.
Batting 7th, 2017: .266/.319/.375. Sigh.
In fairness to Joe, what's he supposed to say? "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, so I put him where he does the least amount of damage"?
Actually I'm annoyed that he's still batting 7th ahead of Baez.
Yeah there've been a couple instances where Heyward making the 2nd out of the inning ahead of Javy has allowed them to take the bat out of Javy's hands.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 30, 2017, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 30, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
This (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20485188/inside-method-joe-maddon-lineup-madness) is not the revelatory piece BN made it out to be (http://www.bleachernation.com/2017/08/29/must-read-of-the-day-how-joe-maddon-constructs-the-lineup/), but I was intrigued by this:
Quote
"I like Heyward in the 7-hole. He's been really productive," Maddon says.
Batting 7th, 2017: .266/.319/.375. Sigh.
In fairness to Joe, what's he supposed to say? "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, so I put him where he does the least amount of damage"?
There's a lot of things he could say that aren't provably wrong. "I like Heyward 7th, he's been working hard and he might get some RBI opportunities there." Or "I'm putting Heyward seventh because I like the lefty/righty thing with Javy up next." It's not hard. Don't tell me he's productive when he isn't, though. Is that too much to ask?
Quote from: Huey Potatohead on August 30, 2017, 03:13:22 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 30, 2017, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 30, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
This (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20485188/inside-method-joe-maddon-lineup-madness) is not the revelatory piece BN made it out to be (http://www.bleachernation.com/2017/08/29/must-read-of-the-day-how-joe-maddon-constructs-the-lineup/), but I was intrigued by this:
Quote
"I like Heyward in the 7-hole. He's been really productive," Maddon says.
Batting 7th, 2017: .266/.319/.375. Sigh.
In fairness to Joe, what's he supposed to say? "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, so I put him where he does the least amount of damage"?
Actually I'm annoyed that he's still batting 7th ahead of Baez.
Obviously Joe knows that Javy gets better protection with Heyward batting in front of him.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 30, 2017, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on August 30, 2017, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on August 30, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
This (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20485188/inside-method-joe-maddon-lineup-madness) is not the revelatory piece BN made it out to be (http://www.bleachernation.com/2017/08/29/must-read-of-the-day-how-joe-maddon-constructs-the-lineup/), but I was intrigued by this:
Quote
"I like Heyward in the 7-hole. He's been really productive," Maddon says.
Batting 7th, 2017: .266/.319/.375. Sigh.
In fairness to Joe, what's he supposed to say? "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, so I put him where he does the least amount of damage"?
There's a lot of things he could say that aren't provably wrong. "I like Heyward 7th, he's been working hard and he might get some RBI opportunities there." Or "I'm putting Heyward seventh because I like the lefty/righty thing with Javy up next." It's not hard. Don't tell me he's productive when he isn't, though. Is that too much to ask?
I remember every time someone asked why Castro and his sub .600 OPS was still batting cleanup in June of 2015, the answer was just "Joe likes him in that spot." Provided similar "reasoning" for Zobrist batting 3rd or 4th not long ago. He bases his lineups on what he hopes guys will be and not what they are.
Rivero is good, but still. That AB was pathetically feeble.
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Yeah, but elite relievers are elite relievers because they get pretty much everyone out. Picking that as your baseline for Heyward seems curious.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 06, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Yeah, but elite relievers are elite relievers because they get pretty much everyone out. Picking that as your baseline for Heyward seems curious.
I just wanted to see a competitive AB. After the bottom of the eighth when the "due up" graphic showed that Heyward was up first, I said to myself "well there's an automatic out." I was not wrong. Also, water is wet.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 06, 2017, 12:32:47 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 06, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Yeah, but elite relievers are elite relievers because they get pretty much everyone out. Picking that as your baseline for Heyward seems curious.
I just wanted to see a competitive AB. After the bottom of the eighth when the "due up" graphic showed that Heyward was up first, I said to myself "well there's an automatic out." I was not wrong. Also, water is wet.
With a WHIP of 0.863, more than two out of three people who ever face Rivero are automatic outs, to be fair.
EDIT: for clarity
Quote from: Tonker on September 06, 2017, 12:37:04 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 06, 2017, 12:32:47 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 06, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Yeah, but elite relievers are elite relievers because they get pretty much everyone out. Picking that as your baseline for Heyward seems curious.
I just wanted to see a competitive AB. After the bottom of the eighth when the "due up" graphic showed that Heyward was up first, I said to myself "well there's an automatic out." I was not wrong. Also, water is wet.
With a WHIP of 0.863, more than two out of three people who ever face him are automatic outs, to be fair.
I did find it funny how the Pirates took the lead seconds before the 3rd out and this apparently left Clin Turtle unprepared and Rivero wasn't ready to come into the game right at the beginning of the inning. They stalled and for a brief moment I was hopeful that Rivero would be wild/ineffective but alas that was not to be the case. Dude's filthy.
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 06, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Yeah, but elite relievers are elite relievers because they get pretty much everyone out. Picking that as your baseline for Heyward seems curious.
It's not my baseline for Heyward. I'm judging him on literally 1000 plate appearances of suck as a Cub. Based on those ONE THOUSAND PLATE APPEARANCES, Joe could MAYBE, just maybe, draw the conclusion that Heyward was even less likely than most to do something there, and trying to actually get a runner on base in a 1 run ballgame in a pennant race is a useful thing to do, rather than continuing to show faith in a guy who has done jack-all to justify that faith.
Shit, even if Joe wanted to stick to his annoying "true" day off rule and leave Rizzo on the bench, La Stella actually has reverse splits and has hit lefties to the tune .305/.383/.432 in his career. Pinch hit for the worthless shitdick who got 184 million dollars to hit like Roosevelt fucking Brown.
Quote from: Tonker on September 06, 2017, 12:37:04 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 06, 2017, 12:32:47 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 06, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Yeah, but elite relievers are elite relievers because they get pretty much everyone out. Picking that as your baseline for Heyward seems curious.
I just wanted to see a competitive AB. After the bottom of the eighth when the "due up" graphic showed that Heyward was up first, I said to myself "well there's an automatic out." I was not wrong. Also, water is wet.
With a WHIP of 0.863, more than two out of three people who ever face Rivero are automatic outs, to be fair.
EDIT: for clarity
I also said I wanted a competitive AB, which that wasn't.
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 06, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Yeah, but elite relievers are elite relievers because they get pretty much everyone out. Picking that as your baseline for Heyward seems curious.
It's not my baseline for Heyward. I'm judging him on literally 1000 plate appearances of suck as a Cub. Based on those ONE THOUSAND PLATE APPEARANCES, Joe could MAYBE, just maybe, draw the conclusion that Heyward was even less likely than most to do something there, and trying to actually get a runner on base in a 1 run ballgame in a pennant race is a useful thing to do, rather than continuing to show faith in a guy who has done jack-all to justify that faith.
Shit, even if Joe wanted to stick to his annoying "true" day off rule and leave Rizzo on the bench, La Stella actually has reverse splits and has hit lefties to the tune .305/.383/.432 in his career. Pinch hit for the worthless shitdick who got 184 million dollars to hit like Roosevelt fucking Brown.
Sorry. This is unfair. Brown had an 87 OPS+ as a Cub. Jason's is 82 this year, 75 overall. Sorry Rosie. Didn't mean to insult your legacy.
Quote from: Tonker on September 06, 2017, 12:37:04 PM
With a WHIP of 0.863, more than two out of three people who ever face Rivero are automatic outs, to be fair.
That's absolutely staggering.
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 01:53:55 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: Quality Start Machine on September 06, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Oleg on September 06, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: SKO on September 06, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 05, 2017, 08:44:33 PM
By the way, are baseball swings supposed to look like someone trying to hack his way through the underbrush in a jungle? Asking for a friend.
I don't know why Joe thought he needed to let Heyward face Rivero in the 9th (I know most of his bench options were left-handed, too, but unlike Jason Rizzo and La Stella can fucking hit, and fare pretty well against lefties mostly), but it really pissed me off. Guy has a .621 OPS going back to July and he's still going out there 3 out of every 4 days, and even when he was inserted as a defensive sub like last night he's still allowed a key at bat against an elite reliever. Bullshit.
ZenSKO needs more practice.
Nah I'm pretty much done with Heyward and done with Joe's patience with Heyward. Now is not the time to let him hack around and try to "find it." You have better options. Sit his ass down. He's a sub replacement-level player since the all star break and this is the second year in a row it has happened. This isn't a slump. He's a bad baseball player now.
Yeah, but elite relievers are elite relievers because they get pretty much everyone out. Picking that as your baseline for Heyward seems curious.
It's not my baseline for Heyward. I'm judging him on literally 1000 plate appearances of suck as a Cub. Based on those ONE THOUSAND PLATE APPEARANCES, Joe could MAYBE, just maybe, draw the conclusion that Heyward was even less likely than most to do something there, and trying to actually get a runner on base in a 1 run ballgame in a pennant race is a useful thing to do, rather than continuing to show faith in a guy who has done jack-all to justify that faith.
Shit, even if Joe wanted to stick to his annoying "true" day off rule and leave Rizzo on the bench, La Stella actually has reverse splits and has hit lefties to the tune .305/.383/.432 in his career. Pinch hit for the worthless shitdick who got 184 million dollars to hit like Roosevelt fucking Brown.
Sorry. This is unfair. Brown had an 87 OPS+ as a Cub. Jason's is 82 this year, 75 overall. Sorry Rosie. Didn't mean to insult your legacy.
Now
I'm reaching SKO-levels of uncontrollable rage at the mention of Roosevelt Brown.
.243/.314/.314 since July 24th. Still starting every fucking game. Kyle Schwarber in that same time frame? .246/.341/.534. Sits the bench all weekend. But "matchups"
.286/.364/.449 in 55 September PA's with a 115 wRC+
He has now earned that $184 M and SKO must destroy his computer.
Quote from: R-V on September 18, 2017, 09:50:34 AM
.286/.364/.449 in 55 September PA's with a 115 wRC+
He has now earned that $184 M and SKO must destroy his computer.
I'm legitimately mad that whenever Heyward does something good I don't even get a FYSKO. What the fuck does a guy have to do to earn his own FY around here.
Quote from: SKO on September 18, 2017, 09:53:51 AM
Quote from: R-V on September 18, 2017, 09:50:34 AM
.286/.364/.449 in 55 September PA's with a 115 wRC+
He has now earned that $184 M and SKO must destroy his computer.
I'm legitimately mad that whenever Heyward does something good I don't even get a FYSKO. What the fuck does a guy have to do to earn his own FY around here.
wear a belt.
Top notch AB there. That first-pitch popup was all the way out of the infield too, strategically keeping the bases loaded.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on September 22, 2017, 10:26:20 PM
Top notch AB there. That first-pitch popup was all the way out of the infield too, strategically keeping the bases loaded.
Impeccable timing after the LaStella walk.
Answer: No
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 12, 2017, 07:23:50 PM
Answer: No
No worries, it's not an elimination game or anything. Let's put it all on Heyward's bat, what could go wrong
Fuck this bag of shit and fuck Joe for letting him take that at bat
Quote from: SKO on October 12, 2017, 08:57:38 PM
Fuck this bag of shit and fuck Joe for letting him take that at bat
Deep breaths.
F*cking useless. Come on man. We're dying to root for you. Do something.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 12, 2017, 09:48:08 PM
F*cking useless. Come on man. We're dying to root for you. Do something.
The answer to the question is "no." That's "no."
Quote from: morpheus on October 13, 2017, 12:38:28 PM
The answer to the question is "no." That's "no."
You don't say. (http://desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=9304.msg313816#msg313816)
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 13, 2017, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: morpheus on October 13, 2017, 12:38:28 PM
The answer to the question is "no." That's "no."
You don't say. (http://desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=9304.msg313816#msg313816)
Yes you alone have had the balls to register displeasure with Jason Heyward's offensive performance. Not like there's an entire thread devoted to that.
I spent much of the game yesterday thinking how much easier that game could have been if Heyward had delivered ANY of the three times he had a chance to drive in a run even with a fucking infield single. If they'd lost I'd have spent the whole offseason putting pins in my Heyward voodoo doll.
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 13, 2017, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: morpheus on October 13, 2017, 12:38:28 PM
The answer to the question is "no." That's "no."
You don't say. (http://desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=9304.msg313816#msg313816)
Hey, that's affirmation after he fucked up the next two chances to deliver. We're in total agreement on this one. Of course, he made a hell of a catch in right, but Christ he hits the ball weakly (or not at all).
Quote from: SKO on October 13, 2017, 01:12:10 PM
Quote from: Saul Goodman on October 13, 2017, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: morpheus on October 13, 2017, 12:38:28 PM
The answer to the question is "no." That's "no."
You don't say. (http://desipio.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=9304.msg313816#msg313816)
Yes you alone have had the balls to register displeasure with Jason Heyward's offensive performance. Not like there's an entire thread devoted to that.
I spent much of the game yesterday thinking how much easier that game could have been if Heyward had delivered ANY of the three times he had a chance to drive in a run even with a fucking infield single. If they'd lost I'd have spent the whole offseason putting pins in my Heyward voodoo doll.
I was commenting on the how it was said, not the what, but you be you.
I'm hoping Jason just needed a "Try Not to Suck" shirt in Japanese to finally get it.
He hit a ball so hard it broke Corey Knebel, so that's a start
Quote from: SKO on April 05, 2018, 11:32:47 PM
He hit a ball so hard it broke Corey Knebel, so that's a start
He should break more pitchers imo
Quote from: SKO on April 05, 2018, 11:32:47 PM
He hit a ball so hard it broke Corey Knebel, so that's a start
For the Brewers, I'm really not sure which was the greater indignity.