It was sometime before either game one or game two of the 2003 NLCS, and then Marlins’ centerfielder Juan Pierre was being interviewed by Fox and he commented that his biggest worry was that he would “run into that ivory on the wall and kill myself.” Unless somebody had hung a piano on the wall, chances were Juan had his ivory and ivy confused. Well, as of today, he’s going to have lots of time to get acquainted with whatever it is out there.
You can argue for the rest of the winter as to whether or not Juan Pierre is the answer in center field. You can argue about whether he was worth two top prospects and a Meat Tray. What you cannot argue is that the competence of the Cubs’ play in the middle of the outfield has been cranked up several notches. Proof of just how lousy Corey Patterson was last year is that the Cubs just traded for a guy who’s batting average was 50 points less in 2005 than it was in 2004.
How lousy has Corey Patterson been? Hey, let’s take a look!
Since 2002, Corey has spent 22 (basically) full months in the big leagues. In those 22 months he has posted a sub-.300 on base average 13 times. Holy crap.
Sub .300! And it’s not like he’s hovering at .299 (which is lousy), check out some of these.
July 2002 — .232 in 90 at bats
September 2002 — .241 in 81 at bats
September 2004 — .256 in 116 at bats
June 2005 — .211 in 102 at bats
August 2005 — .206 in 60 at bats
September 2005 — .203 in 70 at bats
Carlos Zambrano’s on base average was 46 points higher than Corey’s last year. Forty-six.
Mark Prior’s on base average was higher than Corey’s last year. And Prior’s was .260.
Of those 22 big league months, Corey’s on base average was above .400 once (April 2002 in 90 at bats), and above .350 twice (.387 in June 2004 and .388 in August 2004 in 101 and 116 at bats respectively).
Juan Pierre’s career on base average is .355.
Over the same time period as Corey, Juan’s played in 24 months relatively full months. In those 24 months he has posted on base averages of .300 20 times, of .350 12 times, of .370 nine times and of .400 or more twice.
Pierre struggled last year with a calf injury and then was at the whim of Jack McKeon who batted him first, second, fifth and seventh. But check out the 12 month run through 2003 and 2004 for the Cubs’ new leadoff man.
April 2003 — .311 (124 at bats)
May 2003 — .376 (115 at bats)
June 2003 — .367 (106 at bats)
July 2003 — .410 (96 at bats)
Aug 2003 — .341 (114 at bats)
Sept 2003 — .371 (110 at bats)
April 2004 — .385 (94 at bats)
May 2004 — .381 (117 at bats)
June 2004 — .301 (112 at bats)
July 2004 — .397 (109 at bats)
Aug 2004 — .367 (112 at bats)
Sept 2004 — .397 (122 at bats)
His two worst months in that stretch? Both better than Corey’s career on base average. Actually, that’s no surprise, Juan’s only spent three months, ever, under Corey’s career on base average.
That’s not to say that all is terrific with the Cubs’ new lead off man. (And really, they haven’t had a good one since the mid-80s when Jay Johnstone would sit down for ten hilarious minutes with Steve Stone). He struggled last year. The injury is a bona fide excuse, but it should scare the Cubs. Juan’s game is all about one thing. Speed. If he’s running well he’s useful, extremely useful, but if he’s not, he has no other assets. He has no power, a lousy arm and doesn’t walk a whole lot.
But his pluses outweigh his minuses, because while he doesn’t walk much, he doesn’t strike out, either. He covers a lot of ground in the outfield.
I’ll tell you right now that his defensive comparisons to former centerfielder (and current gay heartthrob) Scott Podsednik are unwarranted. As an ill-fated former Brewers’ season ticketholder I sat behind Scotty Fantastic enough and watched him run aimlessly after enough flyballs to know a good centerfielder when I see one. Remember that he replaced diminutive steroid abuser Alex Sanchez in center for the Brewers and while Alex was the worst defensive outfielder I’ve ever seen, Scotty would be in the (likely shirtless) team photo.
Juan’s biggest defensive problem is that he’s Kenny Lofton. He’s got no arm. None. With weenie armed Matt Murton flanking him one side and TBA in right (it’s going to be Milton Bradley, though, don’t you think?) the Cubs are going to get run on like a New Orleans’ Best Buy.
The cost to the Cubs was the Meat Tray, and who can forget his back-to-back dominating performances against the Blue Jays and Marlins last year? Who can also forget that he got beaten like a drum in Yankee Stadium the next time out and rode his career into the abyss? As for the other guys, Reynel Pinto and Ricky Nolasco, they’re likely more than just funny names. They were ranked the 17 and 18th best prospects in the Southern League last year and I’m sure if we ask nice, Montgomery Biscuits’ play-by-play ace Jim Tocco could enlighten us as to their excellence.
It’s interesting that while we were all (me included) up in arms when the Cubs got cheap and lost out on Rafael Furcal, getting Pierre was maybe more important that Furcal. At least behind Furcal they have a real prospect to turn to in Ronny Cedeno. Behind Pierre they had…uh…Corey and…well hey, there’s always Jerry Hairston again!
Of course, the reality is that had they signed Furcal they could have traded for Bradley to play center and loaded up with a big power hitter in right–and with Bradley in the lineup in center the rightfielder could bat righty or lefty– so yeah, anyway you slice it not getting Furcal is still a steel-toed kick in the nuts.
But I give Jim Hendry credit for this. He went into the offseason needing to get a better, deeper bullpen and a lead-off hitter and he’s done both (even if one of the guys involved is Scott Eyre). Now all he has to do is fill a gaping hole in right field, see if he can’t find a good bat to fill either short or second and sprinkle some magic “stay off the DL dust” on Mark Prior and the Cubs have a shot.
At something.
Maybe third place.
One thing I forgot was to make fun of Phil Rogers for his hand-wringing today about how once Corey Patterson’s gone that Jim Hendry will have turned over all eight of the regulars that started the 2003 season.
Yeah, because we so miss Sammy Sosa, Corey, Moises, Mark Bellhorn, Alex Gonzalez, Grudz, Karros and Damian Miller. Boo freakin’ hoo.
Is it official that we were the cost? Reports have ranged from all three of us to just the two minor leaguers and receiving just John Peter to John Peter and a prospect.
Wouldn’t it make sense to hang on to me for a little bit, for use as a pinch runner, defenseive replacement type and see if maybe Juan Pierre’s allegedly outstanding work ethic rubs off on me and maybe I can turn myself around a bit?
Jim was really eager to make this trade, because he really hates parting with a good Meat Tray.
don’t forget my solid contributions in center.
Am I the officion Desipio nickname for Pierre now?
no., no. 3. We already have the plot.
RIP.
Someone come quick and offer me a deal for Walker, I want Neifi’s amazing ball-catching abilities in the lineup every day!!
I’m already here guys.
Regards,
DBF
#6. If we don’t start calling him Lucky Pierre, something is seriously wrong with this site.
“The Cubs are going to get run on like a New Orleans’ Best Buy.” Best. Line. Ever.
So you mean Juan would probably be happier to be called Lucky Pierre than Jim Edmonds is to be called Brokeback Mountin’?
How about “Got his ass rescused from winning eight games next near and getting no pay day in ’07”
Um, by ivory I meant pale-ass bleacher bums.
juan pierre = world series ring
I was at that game, and not that I’m complaining about this trade, an immediate and dustyproof improvement, but I’d like to remember for a moment the Meat-Ray.
The ump was squeezing the hell out of his strike zone and Meat-Ray had that look on his face like you gotta be kidding me, but kept throwing it down and they kept hitting the weak groundballs right back at ’em, but with Neifi at SS and Walker at 2B you knew this couldn’t last long. Neifi was charged with one E, but he had another couple he definitely should’ve got to. And I sat there thinking the whole game, now why, with a sinkerball-throwing pitcher on the mound, and a nice warm DH spot for him, why the hell do you play Walker at 2B? Oh yeah, because Dubois is at DH instead of Hollandsworth who is clueless in LF while going 0-4 at the plate.
Assuming the Marlins’ budget still allows for even wooden cutout infielders, I’d look for his ERA to go down by 2.5 from just that.
Meat-Ray, Meat-Tray, whatever you wanna call yourself, good luck.
I am pretty dumb.
Are you sure I wasn’t playing 2b that day, 16? I faintly remember Dusty saying he’d play me over Walker because I knew the ballpark or some such nonsense.
No no, I played in that game because my skin is darker. I can handle the heat better.
One way or another, we now have a player who is obviously the lead-off hitter on the team. That means we have a decent chance that Dusty will actually bat him there giving us a slightly better chance of ever having one of me. Hendry should just be the manager. He has to manage by proxy of his aquisitions.
#18, I played in the game 2 days earlier, Walker DH, Hollandsworth LF, Dubois riding pine. Zambrano vs. Pavano. Dusty didn’t want Dubois in against that “tough righty” so he instead put him in against Mussina on 6/19/05, a Dusty classic:
1. N Perez SS
2. T Hollandsworth LF
3. D Lee 1B
4. J Burnitz RF
5. A Ramirez 3B
6. T Walker 2B
7. M Barrett C
8. C Patterson CF
9. J Dubois DH
you are not dumb, I was at that game as well, and it seemed like a tough luck day for Meat Tray. He did a great job of keeping the ball down, against the best lineup in baseball. My friend and I were trying to keep track of his groundball to fly ball ratio. I don’t remember what it was, but it seemed like the yankees barely got any good contact, but managed to string together enough to rally.
if i remember right, he was probably left in there one inning too many, but it was a solid outing despite the results…
I’m not saying meat tray is a stud, but he’s still got upside, and with a great defense of Alex Gonzalez and Luis Castillo behind him he should be…ooops…
Meat-Ray 6/19/05 Ground Balls-Fly Balls: 12-4
(In your face, #17)
So, this is what I don’t get. If every other team that is talking to Nomar is talking about him playing in the outfield or on the right side of the field, why didnt the Cubs resign him or offer him arbitation and then trade walker, which they seem to want to do anyway, for a right fielder….either Uncle Milty of the bad temper or Keven Mench of the overhyped.
We still can’t beleive we actually played with that lineup in #21.
*SHUDDER*
Cubs fans, sign me, try to get Zito, and then call it an offseason.
CF Pierre
2B Walker
1B Lee
3B Ramirez
LF Me
RF Murton
C Barrett
SS Ron Ce
P Prior/Zambrano/Maddux/Zito/Rusch
Pen Eyre/Howry/Williamson/Novoa/Wood/Jerome Williams/Dempster
Bench: Mabry/Hank White/Jerry the Lesser/Neifi/Korey
Not bad, eh?
#26 – there is not a single one of me in that outfield.
Not sure why I would be so full if Kerry was going to do anything but start in 2006.
I love Pierre, I love Kerry, I love Mark, I love Lamp.
Ebony, and I-vo-ry…..
Hey Dolan, no news flashes in your dose today–hell, I’m blind, and even **I** could outhit Patterson.
I was gonna suggest the Ivory Hammer, but Lucky Pierre is just hilarious.
#26, that lineup is a little to good to be a Cubs lineup. Granted not great throwing arms in the outfield, but 2 out of those 3 are going to start, and is Bradley that much of an upgrade over Damon? Zito would look good in that pitching staff too, but again this will never happen. That is the stuff teams that WANT to win would do.
Tell me again why Hendry doesn’t want Manny Ramirez?
I say ship Cedeño and another prospect to Boston for Ramirez. Outfield is set. You keep Walker at second and play Neifi (shudder) at short. It’s awful to have Neifi out there every day, but Abreu and Ramirez are the only IMPACT outfielders out there for the Cubs.
I see you’ve gotten to the good stuff.
we think a guy with a .431 career slugging percentage would be a great 5 hole hitter. We are morans.
Hey 35, don’t be comparing us to that guy.
If the Cubs have so much extra cash, why wouldn’t I look good in the Cubs outfield?
Tell you why, #37. Manny would NEVER be able to take the heat here. Even though DFB thinks he can, due to his dark complexion. I’m talking the media, and us.
Yeah, where would I go to relieve myself in the outfield without a door to the john in the Big Green Monster?
I suppose I could use the ivy…
Um Manny…that’s ivory.
If I can’t take the heat in a big market then where am I supposed to go? Nobody but big market teams can afford me.
I don’t know that Boston is any less harsh than Chicago when it comes to media scrutiny. If Manny did here what he did in Boston (being great, and then taking two weeks off, then being great again), I figure he’d do fine by me. It’s a pipe dream. The Sox won’t trade him for anything less than equal value (and that reads: not Ron Ce).
Umm, the closest Best Buy to New Orleans would be over in Baton Rouge. We do have a Circuit City just over the lake in Slidell – happy to help!
I’m seeing a Tejada for Manny trade….
Am I still standing by my Dusty to the Dodgers scoop?
why not bring me over to the cubs….o’s need pitching, are hill and guzman untouchable for me? I’m cheaper than furcal.
While I surmise that our humble scribner will examine this scenario in today’s effort, here’s a take on why the Cubs should go after both Manny and Miggy.
Now, of course, you will probably say, “But this is impossible. There’s no way the Cubs could get both of them.” And you will cite budgets, farm system, rotation issues and my constant use of airplane glue as a recreational drug. All perfectly acceptable comments.
To that I say, so what?
I mean, really, if Jimmy Baggadonuts decided today to do whatever it took (anyone but Lee, Zambrano and Ramirez, Aramis) to build the league’s most imposing lineup (well, at least until Manny takes a three-month break, Tejada rips a hamstring and Juan gets lost in the ivory), would that really be a bad thing?
But wait, we can’t trade our young talent! We’re going to need those guys someday! You mean trade THE FRANCHISE (TM)?! Noooo!
Well, I’m tired of someday, next year, eventually, tomorrow, soon and any other time modifier you wish to use. Trot this out there most every day next year — and even with the poor staff that would be left over — you tell me you won’t give it the ole’ Sarge salute (sans batting helmet) when you run it up the flagpole:
cf Ivory
1b Lee
lf M. Ramirez
3b A. Ramirez
ss Tejada
c Barrett
rf Murton
2b Neifi!/Ron Ce/Walker?/Grudz?/Domingo Ramos?
starting pitcher: Zambrano/Maddux/Williams/Rusch/?
Of course this is insane, improbable, stupid, fanboyish, etc. But so is waiting for that one girl from that party you went to as a sophomore at State U. to return your e-mail, and nothing seems to stop us from doing that either.
Go get ’em, Jimmy!
I don’t like Manny or that Tejada guy. They aren’t that great at catching the ball. Gotta have guys that catch the ball. We really like a Neifi/Cedeno middle infield.
Jim is sounding like me when I get stuck on something, dudes. Everybody gotta catch the ball, good mantra dude. I batted behind Hank Aaron…
Mr. Big, is that you? God, my e-mail crashed and I haven’t been able to get a hold of you to say what I really meant to tell you that night. You are a fucking loser and your breath smells like pure shit. You’re ugly, you can’t dress and your nose hairs are longer than my pubes. Go to hell and get a fucking life. And if you think trading Prior is a good idea, you’re even dumber than I thought.
What
Ever…..
Um, the Bosox and O’s aren’t going to trade you All-Stars for prospects –being major-market ballclubs themselves, they’ll want All-Stars in return. And you’re done fleecing outfits like the Pirates, who have shipped off all of their big contracts and All-Star-type guys who are soon due for big paydays. Ergo, D-Lee for Manny? Done! E-Ram for Miggy? Let’s talk.
I mean, I recognize that we’re talking about the Chicago Cubs and all, and that there’s a prevailing presumption that rest of the league has some mysterious obligation to contribute to the end of nearly a century of championship futility and everything, but come on…
Hey, ain’t I been an All-Star? Wasn’t I just traded for prospects, actually just one prospect?
me for: Walker, Williams, Cedeno, and Patterson… maye hill or Guzman, or pie
Thats seems like a decent deal.
Literally correct, Ed, but here’s your keyword: “been.”
The Red Cubs [sic], flush with their big win, made a mistake and bit on you for 4/40 as the top second-tier shortstop available. They recognize the mistake now, were happy to be rid of you at a considerable savings and are now prepared to go shopping for your successor.
Irony: Whirly Bird used to be in their farm system, but of course ended up across the state line when everybody played three-shortstop monte a year ago; they wouldn’t mind having him now, I’d wager, whereas instead he amuses Dolan 17 times a year with his throwing motion, featuring as he does in the good ol’ National League Central.
But anyway. I don’t think the O’s are reckoning they screwed up by signing Migs, a top-tier SS, and in any case they ain’t giving him away for no hotshot AAA third sacker. Solly!