2010-11 Chicago Bears: The Last Time You'll See Utler Alive

[morpheus]

1. The penalty festival broke out because Green Bay couldn't block Julius Peppers to save their life. Holds are positive plays by the defense. Offensive linemen don't just hold for the fucking hell of it.

2. The Packers didn't take more shots downfield because they weren't there. As much as we rip on the Cover 2 when it doesn't work..last night it did. There were no big plays to be had. The Bears did what they had to do to contain Rodgers and they made plays when it they needed them. That's it. The Bears won the fucking game. They won it. They beat Green Bay. They forced Green Bay's offensive line into holding on for dear life to keep Rodgers from getting killed. The Bears won the point of attack and blocked the field goal. The Bears scored when they had the ball, Green Bay didn't. Time of possession is nice, but it's not always necessary. Green Bay left points on the field, this is true. So did Chicago. Good teams win games like this. Bad teams (or less good teams) don't.

Peppers was a contributing factor and had a great game, but let's not go overboard here.  As someone who likes the Colts, and has watched Freeney and Mathis play for 5 seasons...they generally don't single-handedly compel a team into that many penalties.  In fact, I don't recall it happening once in their entire time in Indy.  I don't know...has Fork ever seen anything quite like that happen with those great Giants d-lines? 

Peppers had a great game last night, but there are 10 other linemen in football who can be that disruptive...and it almost never yields 17 total penalties.  Sometimes linemen hold because they think they can get away with it, it's not ALWAYS out of pure necessity.  Most of the time, they do get away with it. 

I think their short passes were by design as much as the Bears forced them to check down or throw early.  Had they not kept grabbing jerseys and ending up in 3rd and 16, it likely would have worked.  BTW, Rodgers wasn't sacked at all last night...and while I would agree that's not an accurate indicator of the Bears pressure on him...I think zero sacks also forfeits any ability to claim that the pressure caused him to absolutely not go down the field.

I'm not following your last point.  Are you implying that Green Bay isn't a good team?

Just less good than the Bears, I gather.  And he's right.

[Eli]

Peppers had a great game last night, but there are 10 other linemen in football who can be that disruptive

Yup. Linemen like Julius Peppers grow on trees.

[SKO]

1. The penalty festival broke out because Green Bay couldn't block Julius Peppers to save their life. Holds are positive plays by the defense. Offensive linemen don't just hold for the fucking hell of it.

2. The Packers didn't take more shots downfield because they weren't there. As much as we rip on the Cover 2 when it doesn't work..last night it did. There were no big plays to be had. The Bears did what they had to do to contain Rodgers and they made plays when it they needed them. That's it. The Bears won the fucking game. They won it. They beat Green Bay. They forced Green Bay's offensive line into holding on for dear life to keep Rodgers from getting killed. The Bears won the point of attack and blocked the field goal. The Bears scored when they had the ball, Green Bay didn't. Time of possession is nice, but it's not always necessary. Green Bay left points on the field, this is true. So did Chicago. Good teams win games like this. Bad teams (or less good teams) don't.

Peppers was a contributing factor and had a great game, but let's not go overboard here.  As someone who likes the Colts, and has watched Freeney and Mathis play for 5 seasons...they generally don't single-handedly compel a team into that many penalties.  In fact, I don't recall it happening once in their entire time in Indy.  I don't know...has Fork ever seen anything quite like that happen with those great Giants d-lines? 

Peppers had a great game last night, but there are 10 other linemen in football who can be that disruptive...and it almost never yields 17 total penalties.  Sometimes linemen hold because they think they can get away with it, it's not ALWAYS out of pure necessity.  Most of the time, they do get away with it. 

I think their short passes were by design as much as the Bears forced them to check down or throw early.  Had they not kept grabbing jerseys and ending up in 3rd and 16, it likely would have worked.  BTW, Rodgers wasn't sacked at all last night...and while I would agree that's not an accurate indicator of the Bears pressure on him...I think zero sacks also forfeits any ability to claim that the pressure caused him to absolutely not go down the field.

I'm not following your last point.  Are you implying that Green Bay isn't a good team?

Not all of the penalties were holds. The roughing the passer and unnecessary roughness calls were pure stupidity, and that was nice. Peppers caused several of those holds. Two of the false starts also came from the guys who had to block him and jumped the gun. The pressure wasn't what kept Rodgers from going downfield, although it helped in some cases. Rolling the safeties over the top and dropping Urlacher deep is what kept them from going deep. The weakpoints in the Cover 2 are over the corners (who play the flats) and under the safeties. That's what Rodgers and every other quarterback who moves the ball against it will do. If you can limit them to that and then stop them when they run out of room to dump it off underneath or force a turnover, the system works. That's what happened last night.

[Lance Dicksons Arm]

Peppers had a great game last night, but there are 10 other linemen in football who can be that disruptive

Yup. Linemen like Julius Peppers grow on trees.

You guys can (and will) get on me about the Cabrera stuff because this place is nothing if not a Group Think Commune, and it's a handy transitive tool when you don't like whatever it is I might be typing...but the actual quote was something along the lines of "1B with .900 OPS grow on trees"...and at the time, a significant number of those players had such a number.  It was more than 10 if I recall.   

At no point did I say that "Miguel Cabrera grew on trees".   

What I DID say, is that I didn't want to spend $20M on him when he's been known to get fat and stay out until 4AM during the last week of a pennant race.  And I still don't.   The Tigers pay a lot of money for him...he doesn't come cheap.

You'd be better of giving me shit for endorsing Nick Johnson as a better alternative for the price.  In hindsight, that was preposterous.

[Yeti]

Not to get all meatbally here, but I think Da Fannssss had a bit to do with some of the penalties.

Those 2 false starts on the 1 (even though basically inconsequential) were pretty awesome.

[Richard Chuggar]

Peppers had a great game last night, but there are 10 other linemen in football who can be that disruptive

Yup. Linemen like Julius Peppers grow on trees.

You guys can (and will) get on me about the Cabrera stuff because this place is nothing if not a Group Think Commune, and it's a handy transitive tool when you don't like whatever it is I might be typing...but the actual quote was something along the lines of "1B with .900 OPS grow on trees"...and at the time, a significant number of those players had such a number.  It was more than 10 if I recall.   

At no point did I say that "Miguel Cabrera grew on trees".   

What I DID say, is that I didn't want to spend $20M on him when he's been known to get fat and stay out until 4AM during the last week of a pennant race.  And I still don't.   The Tigers pay a lot of money for him...he doesn't come cheap.

You'd be better of giving me shit for endorsing Nick Johnson as a better alternative for the price.  In hindsight, that was preposterous.

I'll get on you for being a fucking idiot.  and slutty.

[SKO]

1. The penalty festival broke out because Green Bay couldn't block Julius Peppers to save their life. Holds are positive plays by the defense. Offensive linemen don't just hold for the fucking hell of it.

2. The Packers didn't take more shots downfield because they weren't there. As much as we rip on the Cover 2 when it doesn't work..last night it did. There were no big plays to be had. The Bears did what they had to do to contain Rodgers and they made plays when it they needed them. That's it. The Bears won the fucking game. They won it. They beat Green Bay. They forced Green Bay's offensive line into holding on for dear life to keep Rodgers from getting killed. The Bears won the point of attack and blocked the field goal. The Bears scored when they had the ball, Green Bay didn't. Time of possession is nice, but it's not always necessary. Green Bay left points on the field, this is true. So did Chicago. Good teams win games like this. Bad teams (or less good teams) don't.

Peppers was a contributing factor and had a great game, but let's not go overboard here.  As someone who likes the Colts, and has watched Freeney and Mathis play for 5 seasons...they generally don't single-handedly compel a team into that many penalties.  In fact, I don't recall it happening once in their entire time in Indy.  I don't know...has Fork ever seen anything quite like that happen with those great Giants d-lines?  

Peppers had a great game last night, but there are 10 other linemen in football who can be that disruptive...and it almost never yields 17 total penalties.  Sometimes linemen hold because they think they can get away with it, it's not ALWAYS out of pure necessity.  Most of the time, they do get away with it.  

I think their short passes were by design as much as the Bears forced them to check down or throw early.  Had they not kept grabbing jerseys and ending up in 3rd and 16, it likely would have worked.  BTW, Rodgers wasn't sacked at all last night...and while I would agree that's not an accurate indicator of the Bears pressure on him...I think zero sacks also forfeits any ability to claim that the pressure caused him to absolutely not go down the field.

I'm not following your last point.  Are you implying that Green Bay isn't a good team?

Not all of the penalties were holds. The roughing the passer and unnecessary roughness calls were pure stupidity, and that was nice. Peppers caused several of those holds. Two of the false starts also came from the guys who had to block him and jumped the gun. The pressure wasn't what kept Rodgers from going downfield, although it helped in some cases. Rolling the safeties over the top and dropping Urlacher deep is what kept them from going deep. The weakpoints in the Cover 2 are over the corners (who play the flats) and under the safeties. That's what Rodgers and every other quarterback who moves the ball against it will do. If you can limit them to that and then stop them when they run out of room to dump it off underneath or force a turnover, the system works. That's what happened last night.

Basically the point of the defense is this: quarterbacks that aren't as patient or as smart as Aaron Rodgers will eventually get tired of taking what the defense gives them and they will try to force the ball downfield. That's where the turnovers generally happen. It's why the system has traditionally been the biggest of Brett Favre's many Achilles' Heels. Even the good quarterbacks who are willing to keep checking it down will run into problems if the defensive line is able to get to them or if they have an incompletion or two or whatever. It limit's scoring opportunities. It's agonizing to watch when you do face a guy like Rodgers who seemingly keeps beating the shit out of your defense, but then you look up and he's only managed to score 17 points in a game. When you have a guy who isn't Aaron Rodgers, and when you start pressuring him, you see turnovers. Often in bunches. It's not working as well as it did in 2005 or up until Harris got hurt in 2006, but it's working better than it has since then. That, and their very good showing against the run, is enough to keep them in ball games.

[Tinker to Evers to Chance]

You fucking people are 3-0.  Stop bitching.

[Powdered Toast Man]

You fucking people are 3-0.  Stop bitching.

[Yeti]

You fucking people are 3-0.  Stop bitching.

I'm not 3-0. The Bears are, but I'm at like 0-24 so far.

[Internet Apex]

You fucking people are 3-0.  Stop bitching.

NEVER!

[Lance Dicksons Arm]

Basically the point of the defense is this: quarterbacks that aren't as patient or as smart as Aaron Rodgers will eventually get tired of taking what the defense gives them and they will try to force the ball downfield. That's where the turnovers generally happen. It's why the system has traditionally been the biggest of Brett Favre's many Achilles' Heels. Even the good quarterbacks who are willing to keep checking it down will run into problems if the defensive line is able to get to them or if they have an incompletion or two or whatever. It limit's scoring opportunities. It's agonizing to watch when you do face a guy like Rodgers who seemingly keeps beating the shit out of your defense, but then you look up and he's only managed to score 17 points in a game. When you have a guy who isn't Aaron Rodgers, and when you start pressuring him, you see turnovers. Often in bunches. It's not working as well as it did in 2005 or up until Harris got hurt in 2006, but it's working better than it has since then. That, and their very good showing against the run, is enough to keep them in ball games.

No argument...I think we're agreeing for the most part.

I give the Bears a shit-ton of credit for playing a very solid defensive game.  And honestly, they key to all of this would probably be that the Packers struggled to get into 2nd and short because once again the Bears run defense was sick.  The Bears forced them to throw on 2nd down, which is huge if you can pretty much take the potential for a 2nd down run off the table.  They didn't produce a lot of devastating outcomes, but they made almost no mistakes and dominated the down and distance aspects that yield more opportunities to go down the field. 

If they do that against average Joe NFL QB, that gets a win 90% of the time.  My big point earlier, and after reading your post I expect we may generally agree...is that the handful of patient and skilled QB's can deal with that (and Rodgers himself did last night) and lead 15 play drives assuming the cast around said Stud QB isn't acting like a bunch of asshats. 

[J. Walter Weatherman]

RE: the Tommie Harris situation - http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/daily-chicago-sports-tab/2010/09/tommie-harris-wants-out-of-chicago.html

Just a blog, so who knows how much stock can be put into it. Probably not much considering it's been hosted by the National Organization of Women. But it's plausible.

Just a blog? He also blogs on the nationally internetted Bleacher Report and is the doofus behind Committed Indians (*no affiliation with The Committed Indian or Second City Hockey), so clearly he's totally legit. And clearly it was his tweet that got Tommie benched.

[fiveouts]

I'm fucking amazed by the number of asshats who are still beating the "Lovie's decision to go for it on 4th and goal again is an indefensible mistake."  Aside from the fact that it (a) is backed up by a decent amount of statistical evidence, and (b) worked EXACTLY how it was supposed to work (defense holds inside the 10, GB forced to punt, minimum of great field position-in this case, a TD) seems to be lost on these meatheads who can't seem to get the ZOMG Lurvie sux! out of their heads.  

[Lance Dicksons Arm]

I'm fucking amazed by the number of asshats who are still beating the "Lovie's decision to go for it on 4th and goal again is totally a indefensible mistake."  Aside from the fact that it (a) is backed up by a decent amount of statistical evidence, and (b) worked EXACTLY how it was supposed to work (defense holds inside the 10, GB forced to punt, minimum of great field position-in this case, a TD) seems to be lost on these meatheads who can't seem to get the ZOMG Lurvie sux! out of their heads.  

This. 

It wasn't close to the same situation as it was in the Detroit game when he went on 4th down.  I'm not a big fan of Lovie, but nothing wrong with that decision last night.