Desipio Message Board

Quote from: ChuckD on February 10, 2009, 08:45:10 PM

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 10, 2009, 11:44:27 AM
The 2K9 Developer Diary is up at O.S.  They're sure saying all the right things.  Hit Influence sounds exactly like MVP 2005's hitting system, but I'm very intrigued by Zone Hitting.  I haven't played a cursor-based hitting game since All-Star Baseball.  Baserunning sounds much improved.

Does that mean the ball is going to flash a different color to indicate the type of pitch?

Which game was that?  I quite liked it, actually - my pitch recognition skills are legendarily poor.  Seeing the ball flash red used to at least save the the embarrassment of being all the way through my swing before that curve ball had even got to the plate.

Quote from: Tonker on February 11, 2009, 08:13:29 AM

Quote from: ChuckD on February 10, 2009, 08:45:10 PM

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 10, 2009, 11:44:27 AM
The 2K9 Developer Diary is up at O.S.  They're sure saying all the right things.  Hit Influence sounds exactly like MVP 2005's hitting system, but I'm very intrigued by Zone Hitting.  I haven't played a cursor-based hitting game since All-Star Baseball.  Baserunning sounds much improved.

Does that mean the ball is going to flash a different color to indicate the type of pitch?

Which game was that?  I quite liked it, actually - my pitch recognition skills are legendarily poor.  Seeing the ball flash red used to at least save the the embarrassment of being all the way through my swing before that curve ball had even got to the plate.

The Show has something similar. Basically if you guess the right pitch a little light will flash. It's up to you if you can tell if it's in the zone... which I tend to fail at.

Quote from: Tonker on February 11, 2009, 08:13:29 AM

Quote from: ChuckD on February 10, 2009, 08:45:10 PM

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 10, 2009, 11:44:27 AM
The 2K9 Developer Diary is up at O.S.  They're sure saying all the right things.  Hit Influence sounds exactly like MVP 2005's hitting system, but I'm very intrigued by Zone Hitting.  I haven't played a cursor-based hitting game since All-Star Baseball.  Baserunning sounds much improved.

Does that mean the ball is going to flash a different color to indicate the type of pitch?

Which game was that?  I quite liked it, actually - my pitch recognition skills are legendarily poor.  Seeing the ball flash red used to at least save the the embarrassment of being all the way through my swing before that curve ball had even got to the plate.

MVP 2005.  The ball would flash a different color right when it left the pitcher's hand to indicate fastball, breaking ball, splitter, changeup, etc.  It was a fantastic addition.  From what I've read about MLB 2K9, supposedly the ball flashes a certain color when it crosses the plate.  I don't see how that's even remotely helpful, so I assume that's a mistake and that it flashes earlier.

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 11, 2009, 10:48:59 AM

Quote from: Tonker on February 11, 2009, 08:13:29 AM

Quote from: ChuckD on February 10, 2009, 08:45:10 PM

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 10, 2009, 11:44:27 AM
The 2K9 Developer Diary is up at O.S.  They're sure saying all the right things.  Hit Influence sounds exactly like MVP 2005's hitting system, but I'm very intrigued by Zone Hitting.  I haven't played a cursor-based hitting game since All-Star Baseball.  Baserunning sounds much improved.

Does that mean the ball is going to flash a different color to indicate the type of pitch?

Which game was that?  I quite liked it, actually - my pitch recognition skills are legendarily poor.  Seeing the ball flash red used to at least save the the embarrassment of being all the way through my swing before that curve ball had even got to the plate.

MVP 2005.  The ball would flash a different color right when it left the pitcher's hand to indicate fastball, breaking ball, splitter, changeup, etc.  It was a fantastic addition.  From what I've read about MLB 2K9, supposedly the ball flashes a certain color when it crosses the plate.  I don't see how that's even remotely helpful, so I assume that's a mistake and that it flashes earlier.

If I remember rightly, you got plenty, some, little or no warning depending on the individual pitcher's action.  Hideo Nomo tipped his pitches almost as soon as the throw from the catcher was in his mitt, and Barry Zito didn't let you know what was coming at all.  I'd completely forgotten about this feature, but it was pretty fucking sweet, actually.

Isn't it like cheating?  I guess if the stitching showed up better on the pitches they wouldn't have to do something like this.  I never played MVP 2005, so I don't know how great it was.  To me, it takes away from the challenge of recognizing the pitch.  You can argue that recognizing the stitching and noticing color are similar, but the former seems like the bigger challenge.

Nitpicking, I know.

Quote from: *In a Nutsack on February 11, 2009, 11:13:33 AM
Isn't it like cheating?  I guess if the stitching showed up better on the pitches they wouldn't have to do something like this.  I never played MVP 2005, so I don't know how great it was.  To me, it takes away from the challenge of recognizing the pitch.  You can argue that recognizing the stitching and noticing color are similar, but the former seems like the bigger challenge.

Nitpicking, I know.

Well I'd be very impressed if someone could recognizing the stitching on a video game baseball and decide the pitch type.  Maybe it would be possible on a slow pitch speed on a very large high-def TV.  It's hard enough to tell if the damn thing is going to be in the strike zone, let alone which way it's rotating.

MVP's system worked really well, but ultimately was a bit too easy.  I believe each pitcher had one specific rating that determined how well they hid their pitches.  Hitting against most pitchers on the Pirates was simple because you'd know the type halfway through their windup and it was just a matter of judging location once you knew what the pitch looked like.  I really liked the system, but it was too easy.  I prefer it over something like The Show, because knowing exactly where the pitch will be through some on-screen target is pretty lame.  It's fine from time-to-time when the pitcher just fucks up, but it's a lot more fun and rewarding to actually be able to read the pitches.  I liked MVP so much because I actually got good enough that I felt like I was really in control when I played.  I could recognize the type of pitch and location, and then pull it, slap it the other way, or do whatever I needed to in that situation.  With the 2k games, no matter how much I played, I never really felt like I was controlling the outcome of the AB.  It was just a matter of timing the swing and then waiting to see what happened, which more often than not was 500 foot bomb.  In MVP, I knew when my swing would result in a single up the middle, a double down the line or whatever.  They really need to update that game...

Quote from: Weebs on February 11, 2009, 12:49:54 PM

Quote from: *In a Nutsack on February 11, 2009, 11:13:33 AM
Isn't it like cheating?  I guess if the stitching showed up better on the pitches they wouldn't have to do something like this.  I never played MVP 2005, so I don't know how great it was.  To me, it takes away from the challenge of recognizing the pitch.  You can argue that recognizing the stitching and noticing color are similar, but the former seems like the bigger challenge.

Nitpicking, I know.

Well I'd be very impressed if someone could recognizing the stitching on a video game baseball and decide the pitch type.  Maybe it would be possible on a slow pitch speed on a very large high-def TV.  It's hard enough to tell if the damn thing is going to be in the strike zone, let alone which way it's rotating.

MVP's system worked really well, but ultimately was a bit too easy.  I believe each pitcher had one specific rating that determined how well they hid their pitches.  Hitting against most pitchers on the Pirates was simple because you'd know the type halfway through their windup and it was just a matter of judging location once you knew what the pitch looked like.  I really liked the system, but it was too easy.  I prefer it over something like The Show, because knowing exactly where the pitch will be through some on-screen target is pretty lame.  It's fine from time-to-time when the pitcher just fucks up, but it's a lot more fun and rewarding to actually be able to read the pitches.  I liked MVP so much because I actually got good enough that I felt like I was really in control when I played.  I could recognize the type of pitch and location, and then pull it, slap it the other way, or do whatever I needed to in that situation.  With the 2k games, no matter how much I played, I never really felt like I was controlling the outcome of the AB.  It was just a matter of timing the swing and then waiting to see what happened, which more often than not was 500 foot bomb.  In MVP, I knew when my swing would result in a single up the middle, a double down the line or whatever.  They really need to update that game...

Did anyone read this?

Quote from: Slakee on February 11, 2009, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: Weebs on February 11, 2009, 12:49:54 PM

Quote from: *In a Nutsack on February 11, 2009, 11:13:33 AM
Isn't it like cheating?  I guess if the stitching showed up better on the pitches they wouldn't have to do something like this.  I never played MVP 2005, so I don't know how great it was.  To me, it takes away from the challenge of recognizing the pitch.  You can argue that recognizing the stitching and noticing color are similar, but the former seems like the bigger challenge.

Nitpicking, I know.

Well I'd be very impressed if someone could recognizing the stitching on a video game baseball and decide the pitch type.  Maybe it would be possible on a slow pitch speed on a very large high-def TV.  It's hard enough to tell if the damn thing is going to be in the strike zone, let alone which way it's rotating.

MVP's system worked really well, but ultimately was a bit too easy.  I believe each pitcher had one specific rating that determined how well they hid their pitches.  Hitting against most pitchers on the Pirates was simple because you'd know the type halfway through their windup and it was just a matter of judging location once you knew what the pitch looked like.  I really liked the system, but it was too easy.  I prefer it over something like The Show, because knowing exactly where the pitch will be through some on-screen target is pretty lame.  It's fine from time-to-time when the pitcher just fucks up, but it's a lot more fun and rewarding to actually be able to read the pitches.  I liked MVP so much because I actually got good enough that I felt like I was really in control when I played.  I could recognize the type of pitch and location, and then pull it, slap it the other way, or do whatever I needed to in that situation.  With the 2k games, no matter how much I played, I never really felt like I was controlling the outcome of the AB.  It was just a matter of timing the swing and then waiting to see what happened, which more often than not was 500 foot bomb.  In MVP, I knew when my swing would result in a single up the middle, a double down the line or whatever.  They really need to update that game...

Did anyone read this?

I did, but only because I'm stunned that I agreed with pretty much everything Weebs said in it.

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 11, 2009, 12:57:59 PM

Quote from: Slakee on February 11, 2009, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: Weebs on February 11, 2009, 12:49:54 PM

Quote from: *In a Nutsack on February 11, 2009, 11:13:33 AM
Isn't it like cheating?  I guess if the stitching showed up better on the pitches they wouldn't have to do something like this.  I never played MVP 2005, so I don't know how great it was.  To me, it takes away from the challenge of recognizing the pitch.  You can argue that recognizing the stitching and noticing color are similar, but the former seems like the bigger challenge.

Nitpicking, I know.

Well I'd be very impressed if someone could recognizing the stitching on a video game baseball and decide the pitch type.  Maybe it would be possible on a slow pitch speed on a very large high-def TV.  It's hard enough to tell if the damn thing is going to be in the strike zone, let alone which way it's rotating.

MVP's system worked really well, but ultimately was a bit too easy.  I believe each pitcher had one specific rating that determined how well they hid their pitches.  Hitting against most pitchers on the Pirates was simple because you'd know the type halfway through their windup and it was just a matter of judging location once you knew what the pitch looked like.  I really liked the system, but it was too easy.  I prefer it over something like The Show, because knowing exactly where the pitch will be through some on-screen target is pretty lame.  It's fine from time-to-time when the pitcher just fucks up, but it's a lot more fun and rewarding to actually be able to read the pitches.  I liked MVP so much because I actually got good enough that I felt like I was really in control when I played.  I could recognize the type of pitch and location, and then pull it, slap it the other way, or do whatever I needed to in that situation.  With the 2k games, no matter how much I played, I never really felt like I was controlling the outcome of the AB.  It was just a matter of timing the swing and then waiting to see what happened, which more often than not was 500 foot bomb.  In MVP, I knew when my swing would result in a single up the middle, a double down the line or whatever.  They really need to update that game...

Did anyone read this?

I did, but only because I'm stunned that I agreed with pretty much everything Weebs said in it.

How did you know you agreed with it before you read it?

ROASTED

Quote from: Slakee on February 11, 2009, 01:00:07 PM

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 11, 2009, 12:57:59 PM

Quote from: Slakee on February 11, 2009, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: Weebs on February 11, 2009, 12:49:54 PM

Quote from: *In a Nutsack on February 11, 2009, 11:13:33 AM
Isn't it like cheating?  I guess if the stitching showed up better on the pitches they wouldn't have to do something like this.  I never played MVP 2005, so I don't know how great it was.  To me, it takes away from the challenge of recognizing the pitch.  You can argue that recognizing the stitching and noticing color are similar, but the former seems like the bigger challenge.

Nitpicking, I know.

Well I'd be very impressed if someone could recognizing the stitching on a video game baseball and decide the pitch type.  Maybe it would be possible on a slow pitch speed on a very large high-def TV.  It's hard enough to tell if the damn thing is going to be in the strike zone, let alone which way it's rotating.

MVP's system worked really well, but ultimately was a bit too easy.  I believe each pitcher had one specific rating that determined how well they hid their pitches.  Hitting against most pitchers on the Pirates was simple because you'd know the type halfway through their windup and it was just a matter of judging location once you knew what the pitch looked like.  I really liked the system, but it was too easy.  I prefer it over something like The Show, because knowing exactly where the pitch will be through some on-screen target is pretty lame.  It's fine from time-to-time when the pitcher just fucks up, but it's a lot more fun and rewarding to actually be able to read the pitches.  I liked MVP so much because I actually got good enough that I felt like I was really in control when I played.  I could recognize the type of pitch and location, and then pull it, slap it the other way, or do whatever I needed to in that situation.  With the 2k games, no matter how much I played, I never really felt like I was controlling the outcome of the AB.  It was just a matter of timing the swing and then waiting to see what happened, which more often than not was 500 foot bomb.  In MVP, I knew when my swing would result in a single up the middle, a double down the line or whatever.  They really need to update that game...

Did anyone read this?

I did, but only because I'm stunned that I agreed with pretty much everything Weebs said in it.

How did you know you agreed with it before you read it?

ROASTED

I have a rule whereby I read Weebs' posts until he says something completely nonsensical.  That usually happens in the first sentence.

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 11, 2009, 12:57:59 PM

Quote from: Slakee on February 11, 2009, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: Weebs on February 11, 2009, 12:49:54 PM

Quote from: *In a Nutsack on February 11, 2009, 11:13:33 AM
Isn't it like cheating?  I guess if the stitching showed up better on the pitches they wouldn't have to do something like this.  I never played MVP 2005, so I don't know how great it was.  To me, it takes away from the challenge of recognizing the pitch.  You can argue that recognizing the stitching and noticing color are similar, but the former seems like the bigger challenge.

Nitpicking, I know.

Well I'd be very impressed if someone could recognizing the stitching on a video game baseball and decide the pitch type.  Maybe it would be possible on a slow pitch speed on a very large high-def TV.  It's hard enough to tell if the damn thing is going to be in the strike zone, let alone which way it's rotating.

MVP's system worked really well, but ultimately was a bit too easy.  I believe each pitcher had one specific rating that determined how well they hid their pitches.  Hitting against most pitchers on the Pirates was simple because you'd know the type halfway through their windup and it was just a matter of judging location once you knew what the pitch looked like.  I really liked the system, but it was too easy.  I prefer it over something like The Show, because knowing exactly where the pitch will be through some on-screen target is pretty lame.  It's fine from time-to-time when the pitcher just fucks up, but it's a lot more fun and rewarding to actually be able to read the pitches.  I liked MVP so much because I actually got good enough that I felt like I was really in control when I played.  I could recognize the type of pitch and location, and then pull it, slap it the other way, or do whatever I needed to in that situation.  With the 2k games, no matter how much I played, I never really felt like I was controlling the outcome of the AB.  It was just a matter of timing the swing and then waiting to see what happened, which more often than not was 500 foot bomb.  In MVP, I knew when my swing would result in a single up the middle, a double down the line or whatever.  They really need to update that game...

Did anyone read this?

I did, but only because I'm stunned that I agreed with pretty much everything Weebs said in it.

He's right about the ABs in the 2K games.  But, how does any baseball player worth his salt recognize a pitch without magical color coding?  Stitches (revealing rotation) and movement.  If it makes the game more enjoyable to play to have color-coded pitches, then by all means I'll take your words for it.

Quote from: *In a Nutsack on February 11, 2009, 01:03:55 PM

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 11, 2009, 12:57:59 PM

Quote from: Slakee on February 11, 2009, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: Weebs on February 11, 2009, 12:49:54 PM

Quote from: *In a Nutsack on February 11, 2009, 11:13:33 AM
Isn't it like cheating?  I guess if the stitching showed up better on the pitches they wouldn't have to do something like this.  I never played MVP 2005, so I don't know how great it was.  To me, it takes away from the challenge of recognizing the pitch.  You can argue that recognizing the stitching and noticing color are similar, but the former seems like the bigger challenge.

Nitpicking, I know.

Well I'd be very impressed if someone could recognizing the stitching on a video game baseball and decide the pitch type.  Maybe it would be possible on a slow pitch speed on a very large high-def TV.  It's hard enough to tell if the damn thing is going to be in the strike zone, let alone which way it's rotating.

MVP's system worked really well, but ultimately was a bit too easy.  I believe each pitcher had one specific rating that determined how well they hid their pitches.  Hitting against most pitchers on the Pirates was simple because you'd know the type halfway through their windup and it was just a matter of judging location once you knew what the pitch looked like.  I really liked the system, but it was too easy.  I prefer it over something like The Show, because knowing exactly where the pitch will be through some on-screen target is pretty lame.  It's fine from time-to-time when the pitcher just fucks up, but it's a lot more fun and rewarding to actually be able to read the pitches.  I liked MVP so much because I actually got good enough that I felt like I was really in control when I played.  I could recognize the type of pitch and location, and then pull it, slap it the other way, or do whatever I needed to in that situation.  With the 2k games, no matter how much I played, I never really felt like I was controlling the outcome of the AB.  It was just a matter of timing the swing and then waiting to see what happened, which more often than not was 500 foot bomb.  In MVP, I knew when my swing would result in a single up the middle, a double down the line or whatever.  They really need to update that game...

Did anyone read this?

I did, but only because I'm stunned that I agreed with pretty much everything Weebs said in it.

He's right about the ABs in the 2K games.  But, how does any baseball player worth his salt recognize a pitch without magical color coding?  Stitches (revealing rotation) and movement.  If it makes the game more enjoyable to play to have color-coded pitches, then by all means I'll take your words for it.

Oh I'm not denying that stitching is how an actual baseball player recognizes a pitch, but are you telling me that they'll somehow make the image so crystal clear that a video game player can recognize it?  They're already faking a "ball" moving through 3D space on a 2D image.  Trying to have some sort of clarity on the most basic TV set without making the ball half the size of the screen would be very difficult, I'd imagine.  I'm fine with color coding, as it's a very sensible alternative to how you'd actually recognize a pitch type, but making it so obvious like they did in MVP was too easy. 

've never actually spent the time to see if 2k does accurately use that Inside Edge stuff, or if it's just showing you statistics to make you think you have some idea of what's going on.  However, if it shows John Smoltz is 95% likely to throw a fastball in a 3-0 count, and he does actually throw a fastball 95% of the time, the possibility to really analyze specific player tendencies seems pretty awesome.  Too bad from when I've played, it seems like when they'll show a pitcher has a 95% chance of throwing a fastball on 3-0, he'll always throw something else.

Quote from: Weebs on February 11, 2009, 01:23:15 PM
Oh I'm not denying that stitching is how an actual baseball player recognizes a pitch, but are you telling me that they'll somehow make the image so crystal clear that a video game player can recognize it?  They're already faking a "ball" moving through 3D space on a 2D image.  Trying to have some sort of clarity on the most basic TV set without making the ball half the size of the screen would be very difficult, I'd imagine.  I'm fine with color coding, as it's a very sensible alternative to how you'd actually recognize a pitch type, but making it so obvious like they did in MVP was too easy. 

've never actually spent the time to see if 2k does accurately use that Inside Edge stuff, or if it's just showing you statistics to make you think you have some idea of what's going on.  However, if it shows John Smoltz is 95% likely to throw a fastball in a 3-0 count, and he does actually throw a fastball 95% of the time, the possibility to really analyze specific player tendencies seems pretty awesome.  Too bad from when I've played, it seems like when they'll show a pitcher has a 95% chance of throwing a fastball on 3-0, he'll always throw something else.

Don't take it so literal.  Of course they can't make the stitching crystal clear and simulate the naked eye's perception of a real-life pitch.  However, what I am saying is that if they can simulate granules of red dirt on the ground or blades of grass or textures of jerseys, they surely can somehow mimic the red blur of baseball stitches on a baseball.

I never meant for us to get so deep into a nerd fight on baseball stitching, but I'm interested to see how I'll react to color-coded pitches having never played MVP 2005.  What's more important to the game's feel than recognizing the pitch is how the hits are produced.  I really do hope that the hit selection has been improved and that it's reflected in the cursor-based swing mechanic.

Quote from: Kermit, B. on February 11, 2009, 12:57:59 PM
I did, but only because I'm stunned that I agreed with pretty much everything Weebs said in it.

Now you made me read it, asshole.

So you agree with the part where Weebs tries to hide his long winded bragging about being able
to hit in a video game inside a flimsy analysis of the hitting systems?  I feel like we need a forum
topic for Weebs to brag about inane things.  Maybe we can trick Kurt into thinking it's also about
Canada.

Although, I guess I would agree that the longevity of almost every baseball game is ruined because
it is too easy to hit.

Quote from: Pre on February 11, 2009, 01:40:32 PM
Although, I guess I would agree that the longevity of almost every baseball game is ruined because
it is too easy to hit.

That's actually a nice point.  Which brings me to this about the Inside Edge:  I've always used it in the games, but beyond that I've never kept up with it or really paid too much attention to it.  Is it a dynamic part of the game?  Does it change if you start struggling with pitches you were otherwise adept at getting to?